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What'll They Do?

anti-Bush.jpg


What'll I do
When you are far away
And I am blue
What'll I do?

- Irving Berlin

I know this is far from an original thought, but as I watched the crowds in DC yesterday, some still overwhelmed with Bush Derangement Syndrome, others perhaps simply overanxious for the white dove to descend from the heavens and usher in the reign of their Messiah, I couldn't help but wonder what the Generation Y crowd (and those who produce their mass-marketed, spoon-fed entertainment) is going to do now that they don't have George W. Bush to kick around any more.

Think about it -- virtually all of the magazines, music, television, and movies produced for the under-30 audience is created, written, or performed by people who are also under the age of 30. There are only a handful of major liberal blogging stars who are over the age of 30, and precious few who are over the age of 40.

What difference does that make? It means that virtually none of the entertainment establishment for GenY has been active during a time when Republicans could not be blamed for everything wrong with America -- especially the last eight years. They've created a "help! help! we're being repressed!" identity brand that has essentially become their meta-narrative, the central myth that defines who they are and what they are able to accomplish. Consider the first sentence in Daily Kos' "About Us" statement:

Markos Moulitsas -- a.k.a. "kos" -- created Daily Kos on May 26, 2002, in those dark days when an oppressive and war-crazed administration suppressed all dissent as unpatriotic and treasonous.

But now that the mantle of oppression has been lifted by The One, GenY is supposedly ready to spread its wings and become the real "greatest generation" (see Cassy's post below).

Yet I have to wonder, what happens when reality bites? What happens when they realize that The Lightbearer is going to more or less keep the current system in place? What happens when they realize that we're going to be sticking around in Iraq for a while after all? What happens when they realize that Afghanistan is still a mess, and Americans will continue to die there? What happens when they realize that, even if they are not housed at Guantanamo Bay, America will still be detaining captured terrorists? What happens when they realize that coercive interrogation techniques are still on the table? How will they react to American flags and portraits of President Obama being burned by foreign protesters, or by hard-core antiwar protesters here at home? What happens when they realize that we're probably going to keep virtually all of the Patriot Act in place, and reauthorize the use of warrantless wiretaps? What happens when they finally realize that Barack Obama is serious when he says, "we shouldn't be making judgments on the basis of incomplete information or campaign rhetoric".

What happens when they realize that they have basically been hoodwinked by a slick political campaign and mass hysteria, and that there will be precious little in the way of sunshine, lollipops and roses for the next four years?

I can't imagine how difficult things are going to be for Generation Y, who placed so much trust in Barack Obama, yet know of no other way to express their unhappiness than with sarcasm, vulgarity, and crudeness of such intensity that even their Baby Boomer parents find it shocking. Will they demand that Colbert, Stewart, MTV, VH1, Air America, and the music industry crucify their Messiah if he fails to live up to their expectations?

All I know for sure is that it's going to be a lot of fun watching it all unfold. Popcorn anyone?

----------------------------------------

PS - By the way, where's Osama?

PPS - Something to torment your liberal friends with:


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Comments (168)

My bet is that when the Nut... (Below threshold)
Kat:

My bet is that when the Nutroots and Liberals turn on The One, the rational inteligent people like myself will have to defend him. They have no idea how badly they go fooled. He is not going to pay their mortgage or their rent.

That video...Wow. ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

That video...

Wow. That's... (shudder) impressive. Come a long way from 60's styles, haven't we?

I know its painful, but a q... (Below threshold)
epador:

I know its painful, but a quick glance at the LW post and thread @ WB under Bush B Gone is not encouraging. It looks like they are prepared to continue to burn W in effigy long after he's left DC.

I mean, really,"DIng dong the Bush is gone????"

"What happens when they rea... (Below threshold)

"What happens when they realize that The Lightbearer is going to more or less keep the current system in place?"

They will continue blaming Bush. How much time passed before people stopped blaming and ridiculing Nixon?
http://www.rightklik.net/

Wow. The 60s were so great ... (Below threshold)

Wow. The 60s were so great when lesbians were happy and singing!

Kat -You claim to ... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Kat -

You claim to be rational and intelligent, yet you cannot spell intelligent.

LOL!

If you good folks on the right truly believe in "rule of law," then you must agree that Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft/Gonzalez/Rumsfeld need to be put on trial for their role in violating international law.

"DIng dong the Bush is g... (Below threshold)
apb:

"DIng dong the Bush is gone????"

Gotta laugh at that one. When it turns out that Obama still supports the WOT, waterboarding to prevent another attack, and clobbers Afghanistan will the stupid munchkins realize the Wicked Witch of the West is in charge?

This entire post is sophmor... (Below threshold)
Hansel2:

This entire post is sophmoric.

What'll we do? Nothing. No one is frustrated not to have Bush around. What we will do is not give him one more ounce of consideration, just as he deserves. He's not important.

Furthermore, no one follows Obama around like he's Christ. This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, and the only one's throwing this ridiculous statement around are you 22%ers. (and if there are a few like that, they don't represent the majority of the country - which used to be your voter base)


Obama is realistic, "pragmatic." He's an adult. We won't fawn over him, or apologize for him if he does something wrong. That's how adults in a democracy act.

Bush is gone and your entire idiology has experienced the wheezing sound of a balloon deflating. The angry one's are you guys, and you have no where to vent your frustration except in echo chambers like this. And you can blast Obama as much as you want - even before he enacts a single law or performs a single function. Go ahead, do it. Everyone else sees it for what it is. Childish temper tantrums.

So, continue speaking your mind. The big difference is no one else but your little club - and those like me who like watching caged animals at the zoo - is listening to or looking at you.
depp=true
notiz=Hello, hello? Is that an echo I hear in this chamber?

Initially they will continu... (Below threshold)
Matt:

Initially they will continue to blame President Bush. Then it will be Republicans in Congress of impeding progress. Then they will blame Republicans in general and Red-Staters specifically for being obstructionist and not trying to get-along to go-along (all these youngsters have ever known). Part of their blame-game will be more overt attempts to silence any group they believe is impeding progress. The true believers will never accept that Obama could/would sell them out for his own plans/agendas. They will viciously attack anyone the see as in opposition, sometimes through the press, sometimes through physical means.

I believe the Obama machine will try to harness and use this ultimate dissatisfaction with his performance to target and neutralize any type of opposition, no matter how mild.

Obama 2012If thing... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

Obama 2012

If things haven't improved greatly in the next couple of years, the case for electing Obama for a second term is stronger. Don't wanna change horses in midstream. He just needs some more time -- a "surge" for the economy might do the trick.

Obama 2012!

If there isn't disappointment in Obama from his supporters I hope that the Wingnuts pretend there is.

Obama 2012!


Hansel2 -I'll drin... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Hansel2 -

I'll drink to that!

Ah, the left. How soon they... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Ah, the left. How soon they forget.

1- When Clinton lied under oath of a standing grand jury, the lefts response was, it doesn't matter.
2- 20 Million illegal aliens are in this country and they got here by breaking the rule of law, but the left thinks they should get a pass.

I love when the left stands for the rule of law. I chuckle every time.

And now we have the environmental left having the Reagan National Airport close runway 4 so all the liberal private jets can fly in. How green they are.

Obama cannot even recite the oath of office because is wasn't on a telepromter.

I predict when Barry and his wife go to France, the MSM will cover it as is Jackie Kennedy and John went. Any takers?

Tick, tick, tick. The country is now on the lefts watch. I demand all things fixed quickly. ww

WildWillie -"Obama... (Below threshold)
SDW:

WildWillie -

"Obama cannot even recite the oath of office because is wasn't on a telepromter."

Um ... Roberts screwed it up. He even admitted it on CNN.

Barry is Barack's step-father. Get over the fact that we now have President Obama in the White House.

I am one of those who feel ... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

I am one of those who feel Bush was unfaily maligned. I would also like to see Bush's record defended without direct, personal criticism of Obama. In those areas where Obama continues Bush's policies we should support him (and remind everyone that his decisions are simply extensions of policies Bush already had in place). Now criticizing the Democratic Party is another thing as I think they are just as complicit if not more so than Republicans for the current economic problems we are in.

DaveD -I'm sure th... (Below threshold)
SDW:

DaveD -

I'm sure that, due to the conditions of politics and conflict in the world today, some of the policies that Bush put in place will have to remain (for a little while, at least).

Democrats and liberals freely admit that the Democratic party has some problems and members that are an embarrassment. The difference is that we're willing to shine the light on it and fix the problem, rather than make excuses and point fingers, for the most-part.

I think "The Uniter" departing is only the beginning of the healing of our country.

I actually find myself wish... (Below threshold)

I actually find myself wishing I had written this posting. Superb job assembling the images, Michael.

Oh, and SDW, when it comes to "international law," I find myself feeling very Jacksonian. I abhor the treating of political disagreements as political ones. Congress could have, at any time, pushed for impeachment if that was what they truly wished for. Hell, such bills were even filed -- they went nowhere.

It's a sad state when simply defeating your opponents at the ballot isn't enough, but you need to put them in jail, too. Remember that whatever is done today will be a precedent when the elections turn against you.

Dumbass.

J.

As false patriotism flies o... (Below threshold)
fkim:

As false patriotism flies out the window after looseing trust with the Bush lies is very understandable...I will miss Bush and his misuse of the English language...like his term "relativetudeness" next will be Palin someone that the right wingers can relate to..yall have some pretty good smarts

Quite telling the Republica... (Below threshold)
Justice58:

Quite telling the Republicans won't admit Justice Roberts screwed up the Oath. Roberts even admitted it himself. So now, you're calling Roberts a liar?

Jay Tea -Hey, than... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Jay Tea -

Hey, thanks for keeping it civil. I won't sink to the level of calling you names, but for 6 of the 8 years Bush drove the country into ditch, Republicans held power in Congress ... so, no impeachment gonna happen there.

For two years, Dennis Kucinich tried and tried to get an impeachment hearing going, only to be ridiculed and ignored by his fellow Dems that were more concerned about winning elections than doing what is right.

As I said, if your folks on the conservative side of things believe in rule of law, you'll agree that the Bush gang need to go to trial. Sorry if that is too frank for you ...

Democrats and libe... (Below threshold)
Baron Von Ottomatic:
Democrats and liberals freely admit that the Democratic party has some problems and members that are an embarrassment. The difference is that we're willing to shine the light on it and fix the problem, rather than make excuses and point fingers, for the most-part.
Indeed, how are the Congressional investigations of Dodd, Frank, and Rangel going? And the broad-based grassroots campaign by Democrats to have them removed from Congress starts when?
Baron Von Ottomatic -... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Baron Von Ottomatic -

What, exactly, should Dodd, Frank and Rangel be charged with?

There are more than 30 charges that could be levied against BushCo.

Furthermore, no one foll... (Below threshold)
macofromoc:

Furthermore, no one follows Obama around like he's Christ.

I was thinking David Koresh

Why didn't people around th... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Why didn't people around the world celebrate when Bush was elected?

"CBS Evening News: Crowds Around The Globe In Hopeful Jubilation Over New Presidency"

SDW -If Bush ran t... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

SDW -

If Bush ran the country off the rails financially - Barney Frank held the throttle wide open.

New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae - New York Times

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

~~ snip ~~

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''
Yeah, that 'affordable housing' and subprime loan stuff, which the evil Republicans wanted to regulate and the virtuous Democrats valiantly blocked... has worked really well, hasn't it?

And I agree with Jay Tea - political disagreements shouldn't be equated with criminal action or intent - because if you manage to get THAT sort of action going, it's quite likely to be used against YOU if things don't go well.

JLawson -That is f... (Below threshold)
SDW:

JLawson -

That is funny, since Bush said it would be a fine thing (Oct 2002) to make housing more affordable to those who were barely qualified to get loans. So, I'd like to know who, in the Republican-dominated Congress at that time was sounding the alarm for regulation? Got any quotes?

So, Barney Frank says something akin to McCain's "fundamentals of the economy are strong" quote, and that is a criminal act? Stupid, yes, but criminal?

If we went on stupid quotes alone, the Senate and the House would be nearly empty.


Rule of law ... that's all I'm saying.

Matt,Don't place t... (Below threshold)
Hansel2:

Matt,

Don't place the democrats in the mirror of what you neocons do. Democratic lawmakers don't walk in lockstep, Those who've voted for Obama include a wide range of people with differing views (unlike Bush, who squeaks by with his base), and democrats don't spend time blaming the previous administration - or the next administration - for mistakes made on their watch.

All you are doing is describing what a childish fringe has been doing. It's not the way the rest of us think.

You may not know how to handle it, but Obama will take responsibility for mistakes. Just watch - and you'll blast him for it. But at least he'll take responsibility and not point to anyone else in the room or elsewhere and scream, "NO! He did it!!" (You probably won't believe he'll do that because you folks don't understand any other way but schoolyard antics).

Now, as far as blaming republicans, if fools like Boehner and O"Connell decide to be obstructionists for the heck of it, sure, there will be alot of blame their way. Bush got his way constantly in his first 6 years (primarily because republican lawmakers vote like lemmings), but still found time to blame the democrats - who had no power whatsoever during that time - for all his failings. Childish.

Give Obama some of his agenda. Then blame. You'll have all the ammo to do so. But blamers like you folks want it both ways - get nothing done and blame the other party.

Thank God this mindset is headed for oblivion.

"What happens when they rea... (Below threshold)
BluesHarper:

"What happens when they realize..."

Good one!

They are not able to realize. The media will tell them what to realize. It isn't like these sheeple go around thinking on their own. Their opinions will be handed to them just like the last 7 - 8 (30) years by the MSM - you know, ABC, CBS, NBC, Comedy Central and what have you.

Just kidding of course.

As someone who would enjoy ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

As someone who would enjoy watching Donald Rumsfeld attempt to defend himself in a court of law, SDW, would you mind listing, or providing a link to, the 30 crimes you claim the Bush administration could be charged with?

Hansel2 -Unfortuna... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Hansel2 -

Unfortunately, the reptilian brain is the dominant cognitive organ in the conservative mind. I don't think, if after millions of years of evolution (oh, wait, 6000 years of prayer), their cerebral cortex has taken on the thinking, it will ever do so.

Frank was making the sign o... (Below threshold)
Baron Von Ottomatic:

Frank was making the sign of the curly-coated platypus with a Fannie Mae executive while decrying additional oversight.
http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080924145932.aspx

Dodd took millions in cash and got a favorable loan from financial institutions he now oversees.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/chris-dodd.html

Rangel - chairman of the committee which writes tax law - skirted tax laws, abused rent-controlled housing, and other ethical violations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/opinion/15mon1.html

One might surmise that in light of the current financial situation these issues might be considered problems to be fixed, or at least having the light of investigation shined upon them.

SDW -At the risk o... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

SDW -

At the risk of putting in too much info, I'll link to the article and let you read what happened between 2001 and 2007.

President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs - and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by ... helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that - and Congress is making progress on this - is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

-----

Of course, by that time the old adage about locking the barn after the horse got out comes to mind.

All right, SDW - L... (Below threshold)
apb:

All right, SDW -

List the charges.

As for Dodd and Frank you could simply state that campaign contributions (and sweet loan deals) are bribes to lessen bank oversight. You love inflated CEO pay of banks? Dodd and Frank were enablers.

How about Frankin Raines and his staff inflating asset values at Fannie Mae? Why no jail for them - was it simply because they're friends of Dems? How about Frank's screwing Herb Moses from Fannie? No conflict of interest there, eh? Make me laugh by trying to disprove it.

Rangel's easy - tax evasion. What's tough about that?

Wouldn't it be more fun to charge Feinstein for steering defense contracts to her husband? At this point in time, wouldn't there be some profiteering? Who's covering that? Why not?

Don't be such a partisan simpleton - putting a (D) after a Congress-critter's name doesn't keep 'em from being a douche or a crook.

SDW, someone earlier in the... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

SDW, someone earlier in the comment thread said you dem's have to watch out for precedence.

I don't care what Roberts said, Obama cannot recite the oath of office without a teleprompter, that is how stupid he is.

The left cannot lecture anyone of the rule of law, that horse left the barn with Clinton.

And talk about lockstepping, just watch the senate votes. The dems have to walk in lockstep or they lose their chairmanship. That is the way Reidy boyo works.

MSM and you libs built Obama up so much, there is nowhere for him to go but down. You created it, you live with it.

Obama is the most corrupt president in the history of this nation. ww

I suspect they'll carry on ... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:

I suspect they'll carry on much as they do now. Bush will be blamed for everything, as usual.

Those people I'm totally uninterested in, it's the ones who don't live in a fiction-based reality I wish to interact with.

Problem is FINDING them.

The Rolling Stone cover rem... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

The Rolling Stone cover reminds me of my favorite one or two week period of The Bush Administration

Strike One:

Harriet Miers' nomination

Strike Two:

The Rolling Stone cover with Bush in the dunce cap comes out

Strike Three

The "I'm the Decider" declaration

SDW:Yep, Roberts mes... (Below threshold)
cirby:

SDW:
Yep, Roberts messed up the word order in the Oath of Office.

Right after Obama jumped all over his line, trying to get his name out before Roberts finished saying the first part of the Oath.

Roberts TRIED to say "I, Barack Hussein Obama, do solemnly swear," and was actually saying "do..." (without a pause) when Obama started saying his name.

Don't look at transcripts, don't take the word of Huffington Post, watch the video. You're going to have to hunt a little, it dropped off of the front page of most news websites pretty fast.

What should have been said was "I, Barack Hussein Obama, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States," (Obama repeats), then "and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" (Obama repeats).

Obama jumped his line. Common mistake. What's really telling about Obama's supporters is that they ALL started telling us how it was completely Roberts' fault... and glossing over Obama's little flub.

hyperbolist -I'd b... (Below threshold)
SDW:

hyperbolist -

I'd be glad to provide a couple:

http://impeachforpeace.org/evidence/
http://www.impeachbush.tv/impeach/articles_impeach_tally.pdf

There are more sites, but I don't have the time ...


Baron Von Ottomatic -... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Baron Von Ottomatic -

If these allegations are true, then they should be investigated - period.

SDW, BWAHHH, HA , HA. ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

SDW, BWAHHH, HA , HA.

How about a grown up source. LOL ww

Oh, yeah, THOSE are going t... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Oh, yeah, THOSE are going to be impartial sites, laying out the case in a non-partisan manner...

WildWillie -I will... (Below threshold)
SDW:

WildWillie -

I will trust that a man who graduated at the top of his class from harvard Law School is plenty smart ... thanks.

Roberts screwed up the oath ... move on.

RE: <a href="http://impeac... (Below threshold)
apb:

RE: http://impeachforpeace.org/evidence/

Funny - the first involves the old meme about Bush 'misleading' Congress into war. Ho-hum. The real problem is that the geniuses that push this crap are the same morons who have NEVER READ the Iraq War Resolution.

It's a simple document. Really. There are more terms for humanitarian reasons for war than WMD.

C'mon now - do we really need to list all the douchebag Dems that touted the WMD issue PRIOR to Bush?

The real problem is that the J-school morons in media and the retards led by them are too intellectually lazy for 'truth.' Their interest is in driving agaendas, and perceived power.

It never ceases to amaze me... (Below threshold)
JFO:

It never ceases to amaze me that the fringe right truly believes that Obama will continue George Bush's policies; that they believe the country embraces their conservative policies.

Wake up dingbats. You lost. Your policies were repudiated; your philosophy was repudiated; your ideas were repudiated. Reagan and Thatcher are dead. So is their governing philosophy.

Will Obama govern from the left? I don't think so. I think he'll govern from the center/left. But the funny thing is that the wingnuts think you are the center. Wake up, smell the coffee and get a dose of reality. You're on the fringe, out in the cold and the wilderness where you belong. You want to sit around and say stupid shit about the "messiah" or "the one" ad nauseum. That's your right. Meanwhile about 80% of the rest of us are looking forward to the changes that definitely are coming. Will they work? I think so.

Keep it up and soon you'll be 10%ers. Gawd, you may even have to move in with the likes of (Wee)WildWillie and "Lawyer" marc. God help you if that happens.

What happens when ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
What happens when they realize that they have basically been hoodwinked by a slick political campaign and mass hysteria

It could take a year or two for generation Y to come to grips with reality. When they do many of the people who defended Bush will be the ones defending Obama. Those with BDS are the ones likely to develop ODS.

As a conservative and defender of Bush I'll say that it was not Obama's fault that his oath of office got messed up. I watched it and Roberts got the words messed up. The first thing Roberts said was "repeat after me" and then just a few phrases in he messed up the oath. Obama realized it was wrong and just stood their smiling until Roberts realized he screwed up and corrected the mistake. Only then did Obama make his own mistake. I figure there will be plenty to criticize Obama on going forward without blaming Obama for Robert's mistake.

Wakey, wakey, JFO -<p... (Below threshold)
apb:

Wakey, wakey, JFO -

Obama's realized that 'centrist' policy continues Bush policy toward Terrorism, building democracy in the Middle East through Iraq, apparently killing terrorists in Afghanistan, and giving huge unaccountable sums of money to heads of corporations.

You can TRY to convince yourself otherwise. As time passes, you'll realize you helped elect a machine pol from Illinois that told a bunch of chumps what they wanted to hear (i.e. "campaign rhetoric") to get elected.

OK folks, here are 10 of th... (Below threshold)
SDW:

OK folks, here are 10 of the charges against Bush in Kucinich's bill:

1. That Iraq was `continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability. . . .'

2. That Iraq was `actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability. . . .'

3. That Iraq was `continuing to threaten the national security interests of the United States and international peace and security.'

4. That Iraq has demonstrated a `willingness to attack, the United States. . . .'

5. That `members of al Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq. . . .'

6. The `attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, underscored the gravity of the threat that Iraq will transfer weapons of mass destruction to international terrorist organizations. . . .'

7. That Iraq `will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so. . . .'

8. That an `extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the United States and its citizens from such an attack. . . .'

9. That the aforementioned threats `justify action by the United States to defend itself. . . .'

10. The enactment clause of section 2 of S.J. Res. 45, the Authorization of the Use of the United States Armed Forces authorizes the President to `defend the national security interests of the United States against the threat posed by Iraq. . . .'

Source: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.RES.1345:

I suppose that the government's own site is biased because you guys hate government.

Rule of law ... that's a... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Rule of law ... that's all I'm saying.

Well, what I'm finding lately is that I'm having difficulty in discussions with liberals (and many conservatives) because of a lack of agreement on definitions. So, what's your definition of Rule of Law? I mean, you're spending alot of time talking about the rule of law, but do you know what it means and how it could possibly pertain to the context you're describing?

Clay -You tell me ... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Clay -

You tell me what Rule of Law means? Friggin Republicans are always throwing that around (ie Hannity, Limbaugh, etc).

You tell me what Rule of... (Below threshold)
Clay:

You tell me what Rule of Law means?

You mean you don't know? You've been batting the terma around, but you don't understand it?

As time passes, you... (Below threshold)
Hansel2:

As time passes, you'll realize you helped elect a machine pol from Illinois that told a bunch of chumps what they wanted to hear (i.e. "campaign rhetoric") to get elected.

Better than empty words (gramatically incorrect words at that) from a liar who's sent this country into an abyss on multi-dimensional fronts. I'll take my chances with this man, whom you folks continue to assume is exactly like your former corrupt leader.

Really simple. If Bush was so great, why has everything gone to hell? (Please respond with the understanding that if Carter was responsible for his recession, Bush (who has been in office twice the amount of time as Carter) is at the very least responsible for the recession at the tail end of his term. If you can't concede that, you live in a fantasyland and don't deserver a response).

BTW, I'm not a Repub... (Below threshold)
Clay:

BTW, I'm not a Republican.

SDW - I think it's already... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

SDW - I think it's already been established that Kucinich isn't exactly playing with a full deck. (Though his wife is pretty damn hot - got to give the guy that much.) Those are his reasons, which are from his opinions - they are not facts.

The Duelfer report stated that Saddam did possess the capability of reconstituting his chem and bio programs, once the sanctions were lifted. And he was also attempting to develop nuclear weapons - even if those attempts weren't terribly effective.

Iraq was paying off suicide bombers - $25k a pop. It was also supporting and training terrorists in the region. (Google up Salman Pak.)

Kucinich pleased his base, pretty much guaranteeing his relection for the next few cycles. And that was about all the purpose the bill actually had.


JLawson -What is y... (Below threshold)
SDW:

JLawson -

What is your proof that Dennis Kucinich is not mentally competent to bring bills to the House floor?

Many Representatives supported that bill.

Oh please ... are we going to run through the "Saddam had the capability" crap again? He also had several romance novels he was writing.

Hansel2:"Better... (Below threshold)

Hansel2:

"Better than empty words (gramatically incorrect words at that) from a liar who's sent this country into an abyss on multi-dimensional fronts."

State the "lies" you're blathering about. Try leaving out the wild conspiracy theories about 9/11, Katrina, Iraq, and Valerie Plame. If not one of these, I'm sure you'll fabricate others.

"If Bush was so great, why has everything gone to hell?"

Once again, I disagree with your nutty premise. The idea that the Office of the President controls "everything" that happens in the world is beyond childish. Go crack open a basic Civics book. While you're at it, try reading it and attempting to understand what it says. Then try using some critical thinking skills. You'll find this will help you.

As to your reference to the economy, the more government interferes, the more economies tank. It's been proven over and over again. The former USSR is one blatant example. That Bush admitted he abandoned free market principles to save the free market should tell you everything you need to know. Bailoutpalooza is making things worse.

Government is not the answer to everything. The best thing a government can do is to stay out of the way. Obama is not the "savior" you profess him to be. Flowery speeches will not fix the world's ills, let alone our country's. What you're getting as President is an unabashed socialist/communist, so enjoy your nanny-state government of the future. (We all know how well it worked out with Carter). You really do remind me of Hansel from Zoolander, BTW.

"What is your proof that... (Below threshold)

"What is your proof that Dennis Kucinich is not mentally competent to bring bills to the House floor?"

LOL! You're kidding, right?

You really do remin... (Below threshold)
Hansel2:

You really do remind me of Hansel from Zoolander, BTW.

There's a big difference there (outside of the 132 IQ). I don't beat on my computer like an ape, something that can't be said about some on this site.

No, I'm not kidding. He is... (Below threshold)
SDW:

No, I'm not kidding. He is one of the few people in this world that is honest about what is going on.

One reference to a UFO incident and he's incompetent? Please.


SDW -I see the pro... (Below threshold)
apb:

SDW -

I see the problem already - it's that the bill was sponsored by the ridiculous little space-douche, Kucinich. Like a number of Congress critters, his self-importance is his primary goal.

Michael wonders what the de... (Below threshold)

Michael wonders what the deranged Bush bashers will do, and in this thread they step forward bravely with the answer: Keep on hating Bush!

Keep on chewing that gum, fellows, the flavor is long gone but it apparently gives you pleasure.

He's obviously mentally com... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

He's obviously mentally competent enough to get elected - of course, what that says about his constituency is another matter.

Bill didn't pass - therefore it's scrap paper as far as our legal system goes.

Saddam had intent and capability to reconstitute his bio and chem warfare programs - whether you believe it or not isn't an issue.

Did he have the desire to do so?

Saddam's rationale for the possession of WMD derived from a need for survival and domination. This included a mixture of individual, ethnic, and nationalistic pride as well as national security concerns particularly regarding Iran. Saddam wanted personal greatness, a powerful Iraq that could project influence on the world stage, and a succession that guaranteed both. Saddam sought the further industrialization of Iraq, held great hopes for Iraqi science, and saw himself as the liberator of Palestine.
His vision was clearest--and seemingly most achievable--in terms of leaving Iraq militarily strong, within appropriate borders and safe from external aggressors, especially Iran. WMD was one of the means to these interrelated ends.


Saddam felt that any country that had the technological ability to develop WMD had an intrinsic right to do so. He saw WMD as both a symbol and a normal process of modernity. Saddam's national security policy demanded victory in war, deterrence of hostile neighbors (including infiltration into Iraq), and prestige and strategic influence throughout the Arab world. These concerns led Iraq to develop and maintain WMD programs.


• Saddam sought foremost personal and Regime survival against several foreign and domestic enemies. At the same time, he sought to restore Iraq's regional influence and to eliminate sanctions.


• In particular, Saddam was focused on the eventual acquisition of a nuclear weapon, which Tariq 'Aziz said Saddam was fully committed to acquiring despite the absence of an effective program after 1991.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/duelfer/Iraqs_WMD_Vol1.pdf - Under "Regime Strategic Intent/Desire... Dominance and Deterrence through WMD"

apb -Oh!! LOL!! H... (Below threshold)
SDW:

apb -

Oh!! LOL!! HAHAHAHA! Oh ... my sides hurt.

Space-douche. Good one. Oh, I have to go find a tissue ...

Furthermore, no one foll... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Furthermore, no one follows Obama around like he's Christ. This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, and the only one's throwing this ridiculous statement around are you 22%ers. (and if there are a few like that, they don't represent the majority of the country - which used to be your voter base)

Might wanna rethink that one:

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=42227

Tim -To quote one ... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Tim -

To quote one of your own here:

BWAHHH, HA , HA.

How about a grown up source. LOL ww

CNS News? No bias there.

I do have to say one thing ... (Below threshold)
SDW:

I do have to say one thing ... you guys here are a lot better than those wacky folks on free republic.


Hansel2:One refer... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

Hansel2:
One reference to a UFO incident and he's incompetent? Please.

Incompetent ? Maybe. Delusional ? Definately.

_Mike_ -I guess yo... (Below threshold)
SDW:

_Mike_ -

I guess you may want to screen your pilot before you fly next time. They've seen a lot of strange things in the sky and they seem capable, especially when landing in the Hudson River.

I do have to say one thi... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I do have to say one thing ... you guys here are a lot better than those wacky folks on free republic.

Maybe. But, we don't toss out terms that we think make us sound intelligent, when we don't have a clue what it means.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but you're pretty much looking like an idiot right about now. An entertaining idiot, but an idiot nonetheless.

Another failed coservative ... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Another failed coservative president, I don't kow that Bush is any more special than the many other failed conservative presidents before him. We'll probably just chalk him up to the idiotic far right idelogy and collectively breath a sigh of relif that we now have a smart president for the tough Journey ahead.

My only hope is he can unravel Bush's gigantic mess.

SDW, CNS is only reporting ... (Below threshold)
Tim:

SDW, CNS is only reporting actual quotes in that article, your 'source' is calling partisan arguments 'evidence'.

"Really simple. If Bush ... (Below threshold)
apb:

"Really simple. If Bush was so great, why has everything gone to hell? (Please respond with the understanding that if Carter was responsible for his recession, Bush (who has been in office twice the amount of time as Carter) is at the very least responsible for the recession at the tail end of his term. If you can't concede that, you live in a fantasyland and don't deserver a response)."

Way too simple - first off, you need to understand that literally NO ONE here will state that Bush is so great except in two areas. He deserves appreciation for actions taken after 9/11 in two areas - anti-terrorism and the economy. This country was facing pure economic destruction after 9/11; growth was successfully encouraged through tax policy, and the yearned-for Caliphate on the Euphrates was denied through the Iraq war against terrorists.

More than anything, the chain of events for the current economic downturn go back to the Community Reinvestment Act, and the actions of the Banking subcommittee (and ACORN) to strong-arm banks into bad lending practices.

Sure, a bunch of easy credit accelerated home ownership and new construction; once the old rules of supply and demand showed up, the whole house of cards fell. That's completely different from Carter, whose hallmark was high taxation that shut down growth.

Hansel2 (#56):LOL!... (Below threshold)

Hansel2 (#56):

LOL! Don't sell yourself short. You bang on your computer like an ape with the best of them. ;-)

I love that movie...

"Another failed coservat... (Below threshold)

"Another failed coservative president..."

Bush is NOT a conservative. He's a neoconservative. There's a huge difference. You cannot name one "failed" conservative president. Conservatism works every time it's tried.

Liberalism, which is what you've been seeing more and more of for the last few years, featuring today's bailoutpalooza, is proving to be an abject failure once again, however.

Tim -I reject the ... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Tim -

I reject the source out of hand because it is biased ... just like you guys do.

By the way ... Don King ... yes, he speaks for all black people everywhere. Yes, indeed.

If I'm looking like an idio... (Below threshold)
SDW:

If I'm looking like an idiot, then I guess I'll hurry up and go register as a Republican.

SDW -Just make sur... (Below threshold)
apb:

SDW -

Just make sure you don't confuse conservatives with Republicans. Used to be the (R)'s represented conservatives; now they're typical Congress-douches, in the game for their own power and graft.

apb -In response t... (Below threshold)
SDW:

apb -

In response to message #70:

He deserves appreciation for actions taken after 9/11 in two areas - anti-terrorism and the economy.

Well, he DID let the terrorists attack us on 9-11, and afterward, he had the balls to stand on top of the rubble of the Twin Towers and state that he will get those responsible. So, how does he deserve appreciation for letting Bin Laden run free for the last 7+ years?

Second ... the economy. Are you kidding?

SDW - Simple query:... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - Simple query:

Of the ten "charges" listed in Kucinich's bill which ones do you feel violated a law and what specific law were they?

Oh, you mean "Republicans" ... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Oh, you mean "Republicans" like Mark Foley, Ted Stevens, Tom Delay or Randall "Duke" Cunningham?

No, I won't confuse the two very different terms.

hansel2 - ". I don't be... (Below threshold)
Marc:

hansel2 - ". I don't beat on my computer like an ape, something that can't be said about some on this site."

That's certainly debatable, you've been rather "ape-like" since 9:28 AM when you first commented until 12:32 the time of your last comment.

Marc -Is lying to ... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Marc -

Is lying to Congress not a crime? Isn't that why the Republicans felt justified in blowing (pun intended) more than the estimated $80 million to nab Clinton?

SDW:I guess you m... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

SDW:
I guess you may want to screen your pilot before you fly next time.

I'm sure you aren't so ignorant as to really think that has any bearing on whether Kucinich is delusional.. unless, of course, you also share his delusion.

SDW - "Well, he DID let... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - "Well, he DID let the terrorists attack us on 9-11, and afterward, he had the balls to stand on top of the rubble of the Twin Towers and state that he will get those responsible. So, how does he deserve appreciation for letting Bin Laden run free for the last 7+ years?"

My oh my! We've seen the "he let them attack us" near countless times in the last 96 hours or so.

But not once has anyone who spouted it come up with a reasonable solution given what was known at the time.

So wanna give it a try? Just how could have Bush stopped the WTC attack? No generalities, be specific.

As for "letting Bin Laden run free," you are aware B. Hussien Obama has taken the Bush mindset with regards to bin laden right?

Just in the last week B. Hussien Obams stated bin laden was of no great importance as long as AQ was "on the run."

_Mike_ -I have no ... (Below threshold)
SDW:

_Mike_ -

I have no opinion on UFOs. If I see one, maybe I'll change my stance.

Bush claims to have talked to God and received answers that seemed to justify his illegal invasion and attack on Iraq. Is that delusional? Some may think it is.

SDW - "Is lying to Cong... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - "Is lying to Congress not a crime? Isn't that why the Republicans felt justified in blowing (pun intended) more than the estimated $80 million to nab Clinton?"

And the lie was?

SDW, no one tried Clinton f... (Below threshold)
Tim:

SDW, no one tried Clinton for lying to Congress, it was for lying to a federal grand jury. Also, you said no "one is...". I showed you a couple examples, and there are plenty more out there. And as far as the idiots for peace, part of their evidence is that President Bush claimed that Iraq bought yellowcake from Niger in his SotU speech. Read the damn transcript - he clearly said SOUGHT. If they can't get those two dissimilar words right, it negates the whole point. Some evidence.

SDW -I see you can... (Below threshold)
apb:

SDW -

I see you can't educate yourself beyond CNN-headline rhetoric.

It's been documented well before now that the breakdown in intelligence was a byproduct of Jamie Gorelic's legal 'wall of separation.' Didn't matter if Bush were in or algore, the attack would have come - can't blame Bush for it.

As for bin Laden, he's been dead ever since he went to audio-only. The important thing is the killing off of his philiosophy - the jihad mentality and the quest for Caliphate. In that, Bush (and in particular Petraeus) has succeeded in killing off those responsible. Now Obama can continue to kill off the Taliban.

As for the economy, we DID experience 7 years growth after 9/11 - quite a success. However, for reasons stated before, too-easy credit and failure of oversight helped inflate the housing/equity bubble.

SDW:Isn't that wh... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

SDW:
Isn't that why the Republicans felt justified in blowing (pun intended) more than the estimated $80 million to nab Clinton?

Actually, no. Clinton lied in a deposition for a sexual harassment lawsuit (perjury) where he was a defendant, which also earned him an obstruction of justice (kinda like Nixon).

Facts are such bothersome things, no ?

You were correct about this... (Below threshold)
Larry Dickman:

You were correct about this:

"I know this is far from an original thought," but after that, not so much.

But Bush got the last laugh yesterday, don't you think? He appointed a supreme court justice who is so inept that he couldn't read the oath of office correctly off the card in front of him. 35 words.

Wizbang? Didn't Larry Craig plead guilty to that?

SDW:Bush claims t... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

SDW:
Bush claims to have talked to God and received answers that seemed to justify his illegal invasion and attack on Iraq. Is that delusional? Some may think it is.

And this is pertinent to whether Kusinich is delusional how ?

No, SDW, it shows that Kuci... (Below threshold)

No, SDW, it shows that Kucinich can say whatever he wants, and the site you cited can be trusted to report accurately what Kucinich said. The issue here is that you're taking Kucinich at face value, and that is always a very dangerous presumption.

Kucinich was completely pulling stuff out of his ass, and that is why his impeachment bills went nowhere.

J.

And those little shit Gen-Y... (Below threshold)
Son of a Pig and a Monkey:

And those little shit Gen-Y'ers will all be out of work too! It's all good.

Larry Dickman -... (Below threshold)
apb:

Larry Dickman -

Wizbang? Didn't Larry Craig plead guilty to that?

Why do you hate homosexuals so much?

Just wondering.

Marc -Bush had mor... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Marc -

Bush had more than 50 PDB's stating that Bin Laden and/or Al Qaida were up to something. He did nothing. Wouldn't you at least want to look into the warnings? Maybe send the CIA to follow the leads or listen for more "chatter?"

He did nothing. Nothing ... In August, he went on vacation to chop wood and clear bush. This after reviewing a document that stated, "Bin Laden determined to strike in US."

The incoming Bush administration had been warned over and over by Richard Clarke about Bin Laden. Bush chose to dismantle the Bin Laden division of the CIA. Tell me again ... how Bush was a "leader" on 9-11?

SDWI believe in ma... (Below threshold)
914:

SDW

I believe in manifest destiny for our Country, not some international UN type failures dictating our future.

Hansel & Gretel

You dont bang it like an ape..More like cheetah the chimp.

This is going to be a fun 4 years.

SDW - Class grade...-F.... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - Class grade...-F.

You didn't even make the sorriest attempt at answering the question.

Again, just where was "Bin Laden determined to strike in US," and what would you have done to stop it?

Furthermore, and using your train of thought (derailed as it may be), Clinton claimed "10's of thousands of mass graves" and then SecDef Cohan claimed there were 100's of thousands before Congress and the American public.

Did they lie and should they be prosecuted?

Clinton mistakenly bombed the Chinese embassy because of outdated maps.

That borders on, if not in fact a war crime. If it is should he be brought up on charges?

Larry Craig also said he wo... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Larry Craig also said he would resign his Senate seat. He did not.

Marc -

"SDW:
Bush claims to have talked to God and received answers that seemed to justify his illegal invasion and attack on Iraq. Is that delusional? Some may think it is.

And this is pertinent to whether Kusinich is delusional how ?"

Bush's delusion lead to more than 4000 US soldiers' deaths, and more than 100,000 (some say millions) of innocent Iraqi deaths (winning hearts and minds).

You say that because Kucinich claims to have seen a UFO, he is delusional. I say, Bush talks to God and many, many thousands of people die. That is just plain evil.

I guess maybe I'm comparing an amusing anecdote (Kucinich) with serious sociopathic behavior (Bush).

By the way, Kucinich is spelled with a "c," not an "s."

SDW - Still ignoring the pe... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - Still ignoring the pertinate question... oh how [not so] shocking!

SDW:Bush's delu... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

SDW:

Bush's delusion lead to more than 4000 US soldiers' deaths,

You could have saved yourself a few keystrokes and simply admitted that it had nothing to do with Kucinich rather than attempting some ignorant 'parity' argument... but, yeah, go with your forte.

SDW -I'm so disapp... (Below threshold)
apb:

SDW -

I'm so disappointed! You can push the "4000 US soldiers' deaths, and more than 100,000 (some say millions) of innocent Iraqi deaths" meme without acknowledging a democratic and free Iraq - now two elections and a constitution down the road. The 'innocent' Iraqi deaths were directly due to 2 causes - they were actively working with AQI (in which case they weren't 'innocent') or they were killed by terrorist actions of AQI.

The true point is, where's al Qaeda these days? Their strongest effort was through AQI, killed off by a coalition of US and Iraqi military as well as Iraqi police.

Strange how the 'liberal' term is used; true liberals have no interest in liberating anything (except, of course, liberating themselves from any responsibility for behavior or knowledge).

SDW - has left the building... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - has left the building?

(Too many questions with too many code pink/media matters/DUmmey/DKos kiddies/think progress/truthout talking points to cut & paste makes for a very hard decision.)

SDW- you picked up on a typ... (Below threshold)
Kat:

SDW- you picked up on a typo from 6am this morning. Good for you. Moron. You missed the type when I forgot the T in got. Moron.
You are one of the fools that I predict will turn on the Obamessiah. Moron.

Marc -I think Clin... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Marc -

I think Clinton, carrying on with the UN sanctions after 1991 that starved hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, bears some responsibility.

If Clinton knew the map was wrong, then no. Unfortunately, there is evidence that Bush knew Iraq was no threat. So did Colin Powell.

Hey, do you remember when Condi Rice testified before Congress and talked about that PDB? That was one hoot. Imagine if Gore had actually been able to be the President, instead of Bush's appointment by SCOTUS. I really don't think 9-11 would be any different today than February 5th or October 20th ... just another day.

See, the conservatives always like to sharpen their fine point when they want to bash a liberal. OK, so Clinton lied to a Grand Jury, I stand corrected. But, lying to Congress is also against the law, yes?

OK ... you guys win. Clinton caused 9-11 because he didn't stop Bin Laden when Bush 1 was sending him money.

Saddam Hussein was bad, but "our" kind of bad until he decided to act on his own in Kuwait. Millions of Kurds died while he was "our" kind of bad, but one Kuwaiti oil well and in come the US Marines.

The fact is we will never agree on any of this stuff. So, I give. You win. Enjoy your victory. You guys have all the answers. Have a nice next 4 (hopefully 8) years.

Thanks for that, Kat. I gu... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Thanks for that, Kat. I guess you feel it necessary to call names.

You need to check out The Gordon Bloyers Show on YouTube. You'll feel right at home.

Marc -I don't do m... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Marc -

I don't do much copy & pasting into my messages. The only thing I pasted was the stuff from thomas.loc.gov on the Kucinich bill.

Thank for playing, though.

SDW -Your assertio... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

SDW -

Your assertion that Bush didn't do anything about the threats to our country is decidedly false.

From the 9/11 comission report, Chapter 8 -

Late in the month, a foreign service reported that Abu Zubaydah was considering mounting terrorist attacks in the United States, after postponing possible operations in Europe. No targets, timing, or method of attack were provided.39

We have found no indication of any further discussion before September 11 among the President and his top advisers of the possibility of a threat of an al Qaeda attack in the United States. DCI Tenet visited President Bush in Crawford, Texas, on August 17 and participated in PDB briefings of the President between August 31 (after the President had returned to Washington) and September 10. But Tenet does not recall any discussions with the President of the domestic threat during this period.40

Most of the intelligence community recognized in the summer of 2001 that the number and severity of threat reports were unprecedented. Many officials told us that they knew something terrible was planned, and they were desperate to stop it. Despite their large number, the threats received contained few specifics regarding time, place, method, or target. Most suggested that attacks were planned against targets overseas; others indicated threats against unspecified "U.S. interests." We cannot say for certain whether these reports, as dramatic as they were, related to the 9/11 attacks.

...

Although the FAA had authority to issue security directives mandating new security procedures, none of the few that were released during the summer of 2001 increased security at checkpoints or on board aircraft. The information circulars mostly urged air carriers to "exercise prudence" and be alert. Prior to 9/11, the FAA did present a CD-ROM to air carriers and airport authorities describing the increased threat to civil aviation. The presentation mentioned the possibility of suicide hijackings but said that "fortunately, we have no indication that any group is currently thinking in that direction."47 The FAA conducted 27 special security briefings for specific air carriers between May 1, 2001, and September 11, 2001. Two of these briefings discussed the hijacking threat overseas. None discussed the possibility of suicide hijackings or the use of aircraft as weapons. No new security measures were instituted.48

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch8.htm

Lots of threats, little info. But 'Bush was warned' - the question is, given the LACK of information they had at the time about any specific details on the threats, what could he have reasonably done?

Lots of threats, no investi... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Lots of threats, no investigations ...

Aw, c'mon SDW -Sta... (Below threshold)
apb:

Aw, c'mon SDW -

Stay around and play a little longer. Sounds like you fear being able to see both sides of the coin - this is the light, not the dark side...

SDW reminds me of a horse w... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

SDW reminds me of a horse with blinders on. Just sees straight ahead. Parses words to fit her profile. Uses only the facts that support her argument and make up facts that will support most her arguments. (trillions of Iraq's have died) see how easy it is.

The bottom line, sum total is: Liberals are a self loathing bunch of people who hate, absolutely hate the military. Always have always will. SDW is a shining example. ww

WildWillie -Yes, y... (Below threshold)
SDW:

WildWillie -

Yes, you have me pegged. Nice work.

By the way, I'm a man, which probably makes the gang-rape comment I made even more exciting to you guys.

SDW -Lots of threa... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

SDW -

Lots of threats - plenty of investigations (read the report) - but no hard data on the threats - and not ONE of them pointed towards suicidal hijackers. There's a slight difference. Again, I ask - what could have reasonably been done?

Seems to me you 'know' entirely too many things that just aren't so - and you're not even willing to consider the stuff you've been spoon-fed in sound bites isn't accurate, complete, or even sensible. It takes five minutes to research this stuff - yet you seem too lazy to do anything but the most superficial scanning to confirm your beliefs.

Oh, poor widdle SDW is bein... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Oh, poor widdle SDW is being RAPED by facts. Pretty insensitive use of words coming from a Clinton supporter.

SDW- you insulted me about ... (Below threshold)
Kat:

SDW- you insulted me about typos. I called you what you are. Moron.

SDW - "I think Clinton,... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - "I think Clinton, carrying on with the UN sanctions after 1991 that starved hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, bears some responsibility."

Forgot to note he went into Serbia without UN approval. (*he got it after the fact) By your "logic" that made it illegal. Right?

"If Clinton knew the map was wrong, then no. Unfortunately, there is evidence that Bush knew Iraq was no threat. So did Colin Powell."

Show me, cite it chapter and verse. (With link)

"Hey, do you remember when Condi Rice testified before Congress and talked about that PDB? That was one hoot."

And? What did she add that "proves" where and when AQ was going to strike? And BTW, you've still avoided my question, what could Bush have done?

"See, the conservatives always like to sharpen their fine point when they want to bash a liberal. OK, so Clinton lied to a Grand Jury, I stand corrected. But, lying to Congress is also against the law, yes?"

But you still haven't stated what that lie was. And while you scramble for that answer you'll have to explain why Clintons reasons for Serbia/Kosovo weren't lies.

"Saddam Hussein was bad, but "our" kind of bad until he decided to act on his own in Kuwait. Millions of Kurds died while he was "our" kind of bad, but one Kuwaiti oil well and in come the US Marines."

One oil well? May aren't we understating the obvious. Nevermind an entire country occupied right? . And nevermind the 91 ceasefire agreement that Saddam violated that I assume are aware of (but ignore for sake of ideology not not common sense) that made the 2003 war perfectly legal.

I've resisted saying this but... you "sir" are blithering idiot and sad to say a poster child for the very premise of this post.

JLawson -In the pa... (Below threshold)
SDW:

JLawson -

In the passage that Marc shared, I see nothing that states that there were investigations. I see something about a meeting the FAA had and some briefings, discussions about what may come, but nothing that states findings from following up on any investigations of what was in the PDBs.

Did I miss something?

JLawson -Sorry ...... (Below threshold)
SDW:

JLawson -

Sorry ... the passages YOU posted, not Marc.

SDW -No, I just... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

SDW -

No, I just don't like being gang-raped by you guys.

You present your opinions as 'truth', and don't like it when the truths you believe are shown to be incomplete, inaccurate, or just a plain lie. Instead, you need the comforting mantras which absolve you of any responsibility for thinking outside the box you've happily placed yourself in.

Maybe some day you'll realize that reality is a lot more complex than a bumper-sticker sound bite, and that details are actually important when trying to figure out complex issues.

Marc -I already we... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Marc -

I already went down this road. Bush could have commissioned a real investigation into what the PDBs were stating.

Again, I'll use an analogy so you can understand it ... if you hear a noise in your house late at night, wouldn't you "check it out?"

Bush did nothing (OK, as JLawson says, there were meetings and briefings, but no action). If Bush would have made it a priority like Richard Clarke urged, he may have been able to prevent the attacks by the way of the investigations.

Investigations lead to more data, which could have led to the apprehension of Mohammed Atta and his accomplices at the Boston airport before they boarded any planes.

The fact is, he took his eye off of the ball and it cost us dearly.

I'm going to quote your VP goddess Sara Palin on your request for cite & verse - "I'll try to find some and bring `em to ya."

Actually, I won't try ... I will.

George Tenet, Director of C... (Below threshold)
BPG:

George Tenet, Director of Central Intelligence for both the Clinton and Bush administrations, indicated in his autobiography that Condi Rice and Colin Powell did believe Iraq was a threat, as did Tenet himself. What Tenet notes is that the tension between the State Dept & National Security Advisor on one side and the Dept of Defense (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, et. al) and VP Cheney contributed ultimately to Powell's UN speech in 2003. Tenet indicates that most of the time between 2002-2006 the poor decisions, i.e., the de-Baathification, the failure to provide sufficient troops for post-invasion Iraq, the failure to involve Sunni, Shia, and Kurdish tribes in forming the Provisional Authority, as well as the appointment of Jerry Bremer - those things were NOT the fault of President Bush, but rather the Dept. of Defense.

Did you miss something, SDW... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Did you miss something, SDW?

Yes. The entire chapter which stated what sorts of investigations were going in. It's long, it's complex, and I spared people a lot of extraneous source material that I thought you'd be curious enough to go READ if you had a link.

Guess I shouldn't have even bothered, right?

Sorry, SDW -Someti... (Below threshold)
apb:

Sorry, SDW -

Sometimes people just can't handle when their dearly-held beliefs are disproven. No, you weren't 'gang-raped' - that's completely atrocious hyperbole.

You have a kernel of fear in your brain, and that's understandable. That kernel of fear is that Obama really DID lie to you to get elected.

The shame is that you're not learning the reasons why the US has a problem now. Will Obama have any effect on the sclerotic mass of Congress? Bets are - no. We're stuck with legislative, executive, and judicial as the framers designed. The problem is the framers never envisioned the number of lowlife douchebags occupying Congress.

SDW - "Actually, I won'... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - "Actually, I won't try ... I will."

You won't mind if I maintain my normal respiration rate while I wait will you?

BPG -You also miss... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

BPG -

You also missed the 'help' of the State Department. THOSE clowns really helped FUBAR things in the early days after the war...

apb -Did you vote?... (Below threshold)
SDW:

apb -

Did you vote? If so, then you voted for one of those douchebags, as you call them. They represent us, at least in theory.

The only thing I fear is a conservative USA. I can handle a president that lies ... we've had that for the last 28 years.

I know why we have a problem right now, but there would be an even bigger gang-rape by you guys because I would talk unkindly about the God of conservatism.

Any way ... Marc - yes, maintain your current level of mouth-breathing.

"Something to torment your ... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"Something to torment your liberal friends with:"-ml

Something to comfort your Bushbot friends with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjxSiiKdph8

SDW, This country w... (Below threshold)
maggie:

SDW,
This country was founded by conservatives,
of whom the majority talked to God all of the
time in the form of prayer.
Next time you falsely accuse this site (Wizbang),
or the posters or editors of gang rape, you might find yourself on the short list.
Which can lead to being banned.

bryanD - Typical, you can't... (Below threshold)
Marc:

bryanD - Typical, you can't even post that in the correct thread.

SDW - "The only thing I... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - "The only thing I fear is a conservative USA."

Gee I thought we [meaning "rethuglians, of which I'm not] were the scaredy-cat ones. Thanks for setting the record straight.

maggie -whatever.<... (Below threshold)
SDW:

maggie -

whatever.
depp=true

SDW - "whatever."<... (Below threshold)
Marc:

SDW - "whatever."

Go ahead, declare victory and leave. It's a tired old tactic when on the short end, but we'll let you.

Marc -No, you guys... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Marc -

No, you guys use fear to manipulate people. I never said you guys are scaredy cats.

SDW -To put it pla... (Below threshold)
apb:

SDW -

To put it plainly, I voted against Dick 'the Turban' Durbin; I was shocked and appalled that the folks in Pennsy kept the worthless sack-of-fat Murtha. I see the corruption from IL first-hand, and have no great faith in Obama because he's a product of that nest.

You might try to understand that there are NO 'Mr. Smiths' in DC. They're all dealing for their own personal gain.

The interesting thing will be to find out what drives your phobia of conservatism. To put it simply in MY viewpoint, conservatives are self-reliant (and tend to push for small government) and generous (see who gives the most donations to church and charities). We believe in a strong nation and individual freedom.

So, what's not to like?

Marc -Here you go.... (Below threshold)
SDW:

Marc -

Here you go. From Salon.com, but of course, it is tainted because Sean Hannity didn't day it, right?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/09/06/bush_wmd/

Sept. 6, 2007 | On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam's inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again ... more at link.

Yeah you "got us," we're th... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Yeah you "got us," we're the fear mongers but I wonder... just where has the "worst economy since the Great Depression" come from?

First off SDW unless it's t... (Below threshold)
Marc:

First off SDW unless it's trouthout, DHos or media matters I don't discount any source.

Secondly, you assume too much, Hannity is a clown as was his loonbat sidekick Colmes.

As to you sourced material, (A) the source is two CIA agents whose source is Naji Sabri, Saddam's foreign minister a member of Saddam's "inner circle" (Gee no reason to lie there.) and
(B) the preponderance of available evidence including many other nations intel services suggested the direct opposite of what Sabri claimed.

Believe it or not, just as in a democratic election, the decision to send troops anywhere is based on the majority of evidence on hand not the minority opinion.

SDW - Re WMDs - Sa... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

SDW -

Re WMDs - Saddam had used them on his own people. He blustered that he had them. The French, German, and Russian intelligence agencies had determined he had stockpiles, as well as Israel. With something like that in wartime, you're never 100% sure that ANY information is correct - and the best course of action is to act like they ARE there, and ready to be used. Our military went in with full chem warfare gear on, with masks ready to be donned at a moment's notice.

War on Terrorism - Eye on Iraq - Iraqi Scuds: A Threat We Have to Respect


Dec. 3, 2002


The United States will face a number of risks as part of any invasion of Iraq that are quite serious, and could be even more serious in some cases than those that existed 12 years ago. The best, most capable, intelligence agencies in the world the CIA, the British MI5 and Israeli Mossad Special Operations Division are all very wary of the potential threat posed by Iraqi Scud missiles. Several of the latest CIA reports and recent defector statements indicate that Iraq has biological/chemical weapons on hand. Blister agents, mustard gas, VX gas, anthrax, and the nerve agents Sarin and Taburn are all possible payloads for Scud missiles.


Saddam Hussein may be profiled as a calculating manipulator, but he is also an irrational risk taker. Intelligence analysts believe that Saddam is most dangerous when he is cornered: that he would sacrifice his life to secure his legacy and that he would try to wreak maximum destruction on his foes if attacked. Of particular note, the CIA has recently released a threat assessment that asserts that Saddam is unlikely to use his lethal arsenal against the United States unless he comes under military attack.

We cannot rule out the possibility of Saddam's first use of chemical/biological weapons in a war if he feels it is to his advantage. U.S. war planners have to acknowledge that threat. This would be one of our worst-case scenarios a U.S. offensive turns out to be the catalyst for Iraqi biological or chemical weapons to be launched into Israel or friendly coalition forces.


For these reasons, expect anti-Scud missions to be of the highest priority at the onset of any hostilities with Iraq. The threat of conventional, biological or chemical weapons hitting Israel, neighboring countries, or U.S. troops is one of the greatest concerns of Pentagon planners. Frankly, I think the cost we paid in men and money and 'international good will' was damn cheap from a historical standpoint - and a whole lot less than if the sanctions had collapsed and Saddam had been able to rearm and get his chem and bio warfare dreams going - then start another land grab like Kuwait.

"bryanD - Typical, you can'... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"bryanD - Typical, you can't even post that in the correct thread."
126. Posted by Marc

The thread is correct, Lionel Hutz.

Crap! There go the damn bl... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Crap! There go the damn blockquotes again!

The last paragraph was mine, and is this...

Frankly, I think the cost we paid in men and money and 'international good will' was damn cheap from a historical standpoint - and a whole lot less than if the sanctions had collapsed and Saddam had been able to rearm and get his chem and bio warfare dreams going - then start another land grab like Kuwait.

Unbelievable! What arrogan... (Below threshold)
pvaughan:

Unbelievable! What arrogance!

These children have no idea what they are talking about. They are only parroting what some adult has told them. "If we all just hold hands and whatever". Good grief. They haven't owned a thing. Not a car, not a house, nothing. They only have their petulant wants. They don't know how the world works. But, oh, they are going to change it. Right. These ignorant kids all need to be slapped with reality. The sixties are over and its those same idiots that have been driving it all into the ground.

And what is there solution - spend billions more. Nice.

Instead of Generation WE it more like Generation Wii.

SDW is really good for a la... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

SDW is really good for a laugh. I mean I am chuckling about how clueless he/she is. He/she has not idea how government works. GW cannot ever send troops anywhere without congress' approval, but I know, in SDW's world, it doesn't matter.

In the 1980's the democrats were telling senior citizens in Florida that Reagan wanted to cut or end social security. That's right. The dem's like threatening vulnerable seniors to manipulate them to vote democratic. You dem's are a very pathetic lot. Party first, country second. ww

Just a little ammo for our ... (Below threshold)

Just a little ammo for our friend Marc and his conversation with SDW and his cited Salon report:

....and Powell's speech was later revealed to be a series of falsehoods.

"Later" revealed. Classic. As in "after we invaded Iraq, overthrew a mass murdering dictator and discovered that the deception program in place by the ISS was so deceptive that not even Saddam knew exactly how much (if any) WMD or WMD programs were actually in place and active. Oh, and by the way, Saddam's WMD programs, while small and convert, were active and in place, and that's supported by Charles Delafur's second ISurveyGroup report. Oh, that's a violation of UN Resolution 667 and the 16 that came after it."

And FWIW, as a reporter Blumenthal should know that intel reports are NOT measured or couched in terms of truths and falsehoods, but rather the reports receive levels of "confidence"-- as in high, mid and low confidence--and couched in terms of "we judge" and "we believe". In short, nothing in intel is never 100% a grade truth or falsehood. The reason for the grading is too account for inaccuracies, biases, doublecrosses and confessions by informants who may have nefarious or hidden agendas. So it's hard to conclude that Powell knew he was speaking in falsehoods. (In full disclosure, yes, WMD intel was conflicting at times, that doesn't mean one report receives more or less weight against another because one report conflicts another. Intel reports are weighed and collected as a whole.)

But I'm sure Marc already knows all of this.

WildWillie -Unfort... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

WildWillie -

Unfortunately, you have to figure there's going to be more and more SDWs. It's not that they're stupid - far from it. But they've been taught to never question what the group believes. You look at what SDW was spouting, and go "Man, didn't you ever think about making sure what you're saying is right?"

Someday something's going to happen that'll shock them out of their complacent little 'reality-based' world that seems 180 off from the real world. And they're going to be pissed that they were lied to.

But then again, maybe not. The Truthers are an example of that. Doesn't matter how much evidence you throw at 'em, it was all a plot by the gubberment, man, and HAARP and chemtrails tied into it!

So why is it that since the... (Below threshold)
Chad:

So why is it that since the election there has been a 500% increase in troll population at wizbang? And note, most of it is still about the BDS.

Peter F - "But I... (Below threshold)
Marc:


Peter F - "But I'm sure Marc already knows all of this."

Who me?

Naw, just your average "rethuglian (actually not, an "indy" for 4 decades) that spent 20 years learning satellite photo interpretation, targeting surface vessles with Harpoons, Iran's sorry-assed Kilo with MK-46 and 50 torps, assisting in the targeting of Iraqs land targets via Tomahawk missiles and conducting just over 80 air intercepts of Iraqi Mirage and MIG a/c in the no-fly zone with F-15's, F-16 and F-18's.

Other than that I'm a complete dumbass.

Marc, you should have staye... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Marc, you should have stayed in school and studied, then you wouldn't have gotten stuck in Iraq.

Tim - "Marc, you should... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Tim - "Marc, you should have stayed in school and studied, then you wouldn't have gotten stuck in Iraq."

And you shouldn't parrot ignorant ideas from Kerry.

Marc, you should learn sarc... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Marc, you should learn sarcasm.

P.S. Tim - I should have as... (Below threshold)
Marc:

P.S. Tim - I should have asked, just what in all the quals I listed do YOU think placed me "in Iraq?"

Why would I say stuck in Ir... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Why would I say stuck in Iraq? Because that's where John F'ing Kerry said you would be stuck, since you're working with intel and military stuff. You're not doubting the wisdom of JFK, are you? He was a hero. He has the hat.

Sarcasm? Why? You parrot ig... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Sarcasm? Why? You parrot ignorant ideas from Kerry I'll nail you every time.

MArc -'Cause Sadda... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

MArc -

'Cause Saddam had SUBS, man! I heard it on the radio!

Oh, wait... might have been 'SCUDS'.

Whatever, dude, same thing, right?

/sarc

Chad -

I'm thinking the sudden infestation is because they know (a) pretty soon Obama's going to be facing many (if not all) the same choices Bush did, and he's going to have to be making a lot of the same decisions for a lot of the same reasons, and (b) pretty soon they won't be able to bitch about what Bush has done - because Obama will be doing the same thing.

Who's parroting? I'm mo... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Who's parroting? I'm mocking. Maybe I should find a mock tag.

Tim, never mind marc. He st... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Tim, never mind marc. He still insists that the US Navy decorates its own vessels with "Mission Accomplished" banners and disco balls for purposes of morale.
He even tried to remind me how Okinawa really was. I think HIS Okinawa was on the dark side of the moon.

Jesus, Bryan. Please don't... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Jesus, Bryan. Please don't lump me in with the likes of you. I tried to make a joke using Kerry's 'stuck in Iraq' flub, but I didn't use a sarcasm tag. Never do. I guess if people don't get it, it wasn't that good. Or they're dumb. Or both. Anyway, carriers do use Mission Accomplised banners. Don't know about the disco balls, though. SARC SARC SARC.

bryand - "Tim, never mi... (Below threshold)
Marc:

bryand - "Tim, never mind marc. He still insists that the US Navy decorates its own vessels with "Mission Accomplished" banners and disco balls for purposes of morale."

And your proof of the reverse is what?

Chad - "So why is it th... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Chad - "So why is it that since the election there has been a 500% increase in troll population at wizbang? And note, most of it is still about the BDS."

Can I take a stab at that and invoke Jane's Law?

"The devotees of the party in power are smug and arrogant. The devotees of the party out of power are insane."

Marc,Navy and NASC... (Below threshold)
Larry Dickman:

Marc,

Navy and NASCAR? No wonder you're uncomfortable with a straight black man as president.

Sorry, uncalled for. I have a problem with ad hominem attacks. Kudos to your military service. I'm 20 years Army, and as a DI, I was a dick, man.

Cheers!

But Michael, I meant what I said!

"Obama cannot even recit... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

"Obama cannot even recite the oath of office because is wasn't on a telepromter."

Um ... Roberts screwed it up. He even admitted it on CNN.

And Bush didn't really serve a plastic turkey in Iraq either. So, deal with it.

Marvin Hamlisch---I shall c... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Marvin Hamlisch---I shall curse you to the day you die for writing that horrible song!

"What is your proof that... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

"What is your proof that Dennis Kucinich is not mentally competent to bring bills to the House floor?"

You had to ask?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMhCKXQn4vA

Aaand:
http://www.raven1.net/govptron.htm

:)

No, I just don't ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:


No, I just don't like being gang-raped by you guys.

Just lie back, and think of England.

"Is lying to Congress no... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

"Is lying to Congress not a crime? Isn't that why the Republicans felt justified in blowing (pun intended) more than the estimated $80 million to nab Clinton?"

Well, lying to a Grand Jury is certainly a crime, which is what Clinton did.

I'm going to quote your ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

I'm going to quote your VP goddess Sara Palin on your request for cite & verse - "I'll try to find some and bring `em to ya."

By the way, you incorrectly spelled "Sara" for "Sarah".

You know, since we are nitpicking over Kim's typos and all...

Hey Mike, I guess ... (Below threshold)
newton:

Hey Mike,

I guess the comments in this thread answer your question quite concisely, or don't they?

GWB will be attacked every single time he ventures out in public. Being here in TX will not help as much: there are too many people from liberal states moving here.

Just watch when construction of his Presidential Library begins. Heck, don't even look that far ahead: look at what an a&$H*le did on Tuesday to a monument in Downtown Houston. A monument to... George HW Bush. What next? A call to change the name of Bush Intercontinental Airport? A bomb threat at his TX A&M Presidential Library? And all because he's W's father! Imagine what they will definitely do to his oldest son!

Just imagine.

After W's Secret Service detail expires in ten years, he will have to count on TX's conceal-carry laws and Castle Doctrine. If he knows how to shoot and score, he'll be all right. Meanwhile, just imagine his family. Who will not be surprised if someone attacks Laura at some outing, say, at a school here in TX? Or someone begins to harass the twins, even with their husbands and children, for no other reason than their bloodline? And don't even think about the day Sr. dies. I simply cannot watch what too many jerks will do to him (or even Barbara), only because he's W's dad. (Hey, some b%*#@es carried a placard at a DC women's rights rally that said, "I just wish Barbara had a choice..." And this is for a living, breathing woman in her eighties. Imagine what they will do to her once she dies.) The Bushes - even the third and fourth generations - will not have peace with all the wackos and people of ill will targeting them from every flank possible - ten, twenty, thirty, even fifty years after today. Hey, people still trash Hoover, even though too many don't bother to read history to know what Hoover did so bad in the first place.

The haters will continue to hate until they all die off and carry their rotten souls to the grave. OK, I'll take it back. Their souls will be so rotten that the grave will not recognize them as worthy of its soil. Living just to hate somebody: it must be a sad way to live, IMHO.

Larry Dickman...wasn't that... (Below threshold)
Baron Von Ottomatic:

Larry Dickman...wasn't that the name Harry Callahan used when he went to that bawdy house looking for a hooker named Wanda who had partnered up with Bobby Maxwell in The Enforcer?

SDW,Just to close ... (Below threshold)
Baron Von Ottomatic:

SDW,

Just to close out, Dodd, Frank, and Rangel's offenses are pretty much a matter of public record at this point. Yet they haven't even had their committee chair assignments pulled, much less full investigations. That seems to belie your assertion about Democrats'/liberals' behavior when faced with corrupt/embarrassing party members.

In other words, they're just as dirty as the dirty folks on the Republican side of the ledger but it's not a big deal because they're on the team.

newton,Does Bush k... (Below threshold)
Baron Von Ottomatic:

newton,

Does Bush know how to shoot and score? Target recognition may be the issue.

I remember when Bush was running for Gov. he went on one of those photo op dove hunting trips. He ended up shooting a killdeer (the most widespread and familiar of the American plovers, not to be confused with Spurwing Plover...), which in flight looks a little like a dove but not enough that I'd ever shoot one.

Anyway, Ann Richards busted his balls over it and one of the guides came forward and said he told Bush to shoot the damn thing. Dove hunting being a pretty big deal down here in Texas there was a bit of a kerfuffle about the whole affair. But he still won the election.

So, point being, just don't look too much like the dirty, stinking hippie moonbat stalking Bush when he storms out onto the porch brandishing Saddam's ivory handled revolvers.

larry dickman - "Navy a... (Below threshold)
Marc:

larry dickman - "Navy and NASCAR? No wonder you're uncomfortable with a straight black man as president."

You follow that with this - "Sorry, uncalled for. I have a problem with ad hominem attacks. Kudos to your military service. I'm 20 years Army, and as a DI, I was a dick, man."

Sure... you're sorry, but not in the way you imply.

IF, a very BIG If, you were truly sorry the first quote would have never made it into the comment.

P.S. And this is only half true: "I have a problem with ad hominem [sic] attacks"

You have a problem on the receiving end, from your first appearance here that's all you've done is toss around cheap simple-minded invective.

Screw you.

Other than that I'm a co... (Below threshold)

Other than that I'm a complete dumbass.

On the contrary, Marc! Which is why I thought it was rather fruitless to be providing you with "ammo" for your discussion with SDW. It was more for SDW's benefit. I should've said that. Sorry if that subtle last sentence of mine missed the boat!




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