People to whom every moral dictate is 'relative', don't like having anyone else trying to live by a stricter code of right and wrong. Kinda blows that 'well everyone is doing it' argument.

Thanks for that.

As Winston Churchill said, "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

The Catholic Church has been the fall guy for everything, since the days of Martian Luther. Granted some of the Church policies were a tad extreme back then, but when some outfit has a monopoly in the practice of religion, it tends to get a bit hidebound and set in its ways.

The insane hatred for the Church was mainly fostered by Henry VIII, when the Pope refused to grant Henry a divorce so he could marry Anne Boleyn. This hatred was passed down to Elizabeth I, who literally had priests burned at the stake and other things not very nice.

The hatred of the Church in this country stems from that, because most of the settlers came from the UK and they brought their beliefs with them. To this very day, that legacy has been passed down through the generations. The hatred is not quite so bad as it was.

Heard it where, Shawn, in the mainstream? I am curious why you think finger pointing has the upper hand in determining whether or not a faith has the right set of "bells".

The Catholic church has been infiltrated with a lot of corruption, as well, so there must be some other reason it's getting so much "attention". I am not saying that corruption doesn't exist in other religions, but the "rap" they are getting is probably not without an ulterior motive.

FTR, Mr. Reagan and Mrs Thatcher were Protestants. Just a point of note!

I've applauded the last two Popes on occasion, and really, REALLY like how Benedict is taking on the Defender of the Faith role against militant Islam, but I lost a LOT of respect and developed a great deal of anger over the pedophile priest scandal. Yes, the number of pedophile priests was fairly low, but at one point two-thirds of the Bishops in the United States were involved in covering up the abuses and quietly reassigning the priests to new, unsuspecting parishes.

I would like to see Bernard Cardinal Law returned to the US and tried for his role in covering up the pedophilia committed by the priests under his control. And I wouldn't mind seeing a RICO prosecution over that whole mess.

That's at the core of my distrust and resentment of the Church. When they do exhibit their "bells," I find myself applauding them, even though I disagree with most of their stances. I respect them for having their beliefs and principles and demanding that their members abide by them -- because without that, what's the point of having a doctrine?

But that whole pedophile priest scandal really, really, really disgusted me.

J.

Evangelical Christians are pretty much in the same boat.

"Even if you are an atheist, you can still be swayed by the opinion that abortion is wrong on a moral scale."

This implies that you might think atheists lack morals, which is simply not true.

Many Christians (though few Catholics) think abortion is OK. I'm a non-believer, but I think it's abhorrent.

I think Catholics err when it comes to birth control, especially by interpreting methods which prevent implantation as abortion. They also err in the condemnation of the use of condoms and diaphragms which prevent conception.

They are very much correct in their view that the sexual act is heightened and intensified when both partners are fully aware a child may be in the making.

I think they also err in not recognizing the full range of sexuality, from the perverse to the fringes of normality.

It is this fundamental lack of recognition (ie, it just can't exist, therefore we must hide it) that led to the pedophilia scandals.

Just a side note: God never intended there to be a hundred different religions or doctrines. We are not supposed to be doing what the church tells us to do but rather simply following God's word, the bible! There is only one set of rules to follow and that is God's commandments. If we all followed God's rules as He intended,we would not need the Pope to be our moral compass. As a Christian my belief is the only man we are to follow is Jesus Christ. Just because millions are doing it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. The majority voted for Obama, right?

'Imus Treatment' Ignored for Catholic Bashers
"In other words, Catholic bashing is humorous and an exercise in liberty. Racism is awful. Bigotry, then, is neither good nor bad -- it just depends who the target is."

Question.

How many Catholics do you think voted for Obama?

And why?

As a practicing, conservative Catholic I would first to admit to some of the mistakes the church has made, and is still making. But some the vitirol I encounter from certain segements of the protestent community is simply mind boggling.
I was one time accosted by a man who over heard me talking to somebody else about my faith. After finding out I was Catholic he then began to tell that I was in thrall to the most evil religion ever and that the Catholic Church was directly responsible for starting every major war of the twentieth century, I'm not kidding. For the life of me can not understand where such an attitude comes from.

"I was in thrall to the most evil religion ever and that the Catholic Church was directly responsible for starting every major war of the twentieth century, I'm not kidding. For the life of me can not understand where such an attitude comes from"-st

The Roman church has always been a political beast. Donation of Constantine, etc.
The 20th century? We must go back to the 19th century papacy of Pius IX and his declaration of war on modernity via his claim of infallibility which he used to elevate the cult of Mary, who in turn was used as inciter of a crusade on Russia via instructions received at Fatima. All the product of Pius' Vatican council (Vatican I). Thus the Papal Concordate with Nazi Germany, seen as the obvious best hope against godless communism, embodied in the USSR and Russia. This all took time, and several popes, and when it the crusade collapsed in 1943, the Roman church retreated into the ecumenical mode we know today, courtesy of Vatican II.
Why did the Vatican go bat shit between circas 1850 and 1950? 2 words: Italian nationalism. The Vatican was againt the formation of any strong, competing Italian state, and republicanism and secularism in general. The pope attempted to use France and Austria-Hungary to defeat Italy. Called all "good" Catholics to arms against the secular state. A dud, but the Papal Guard became the haven for riff raff such as the Lincoln assassination conspirator, Surratt the younger. The pope made himself prisoner to Napoleon III (protective custody). It was Mussolini who allowed the Pope a rump state now called Vatican City.
Back to the Nazi Concordate. Some say it was to benefit the flock in Germany. Untrue. The concordate was signed AFTER Hitler had outlawed the two Catholic political parties in the Reich: the Center Party, and the Peoples' Party, and had arrested the leadership.

The Yugoslavian theater of the greater crusade on the Orthodox "schismatics" in the east, based out of Italy first, then Nazi Germany and the Catholic State of Croatia. Nasty stuff.

http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html

"Catholics are unabashedly unapologetic when it comes to what the Church believes."

Perhaps but this hard to support since 54% of Catholic voters voted for the candidate who is more extreme, on issues such abortion, than NARAL.

What also bugs me about the Catholic Church, in general, is the misguided concept that protecting illegal actions will somehow help poor people. Now I am not a biblical scholar nor do I belong to any bureaucratic religion however I as I understand the Bible, God is both loving and just so it does not make any sense to protect illegal immigrants who know full well they are breaking laws. I do understand helping the unwashed mass however doing this under lawlessness is not loving nor just.

There seems to be a tremendous amount of Collectivist philosophy dwelling in Catholicism; Catholics need to decide whether they want to worship the creation or the creator or rather, they need to decide if the State is greater than God or is God is greater than the State. Thus far the actions show they're worshiping the former rather than the latter and as we have seen under Nazism, Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Islamism or rather all of the Collectivist philosophies designed to destroy God, to worship the State is outright evil.

"I think they also err in not recognizing the full range of sexuality, from the perverse to the fringes of normality."

Paganism was hideously dreadful towards the female until Jesus came along and why so many females flocked to hear the word of God; pagans may have worshiped the goddess however they did horrible things to the female. Perhaps most do not want to see that Jesus set out to protect the female from disease and enslavement; to divine her and her ability to create life rather than demean her and treat her as sexual dead meat(so to speak)

I believe today that the second-wave feminism in the latter part of the 20th century has essentially diseased and enslaved the female; our bodies are not made to endure multiple sex partners and no amount of equalization will make our bodies male.

That point aside; I would have to agree with Camille Paglia about sexuality, most people have forgotten that the primary function of the sex organs are for procreation whereas orgasms are just a byproduct of the sexual act.

Forgetting the function might explain why so many are sexually dysfunctional and why 1 in 4 females between the age of 12 to 18 are infected with one or more STDs.

Hmmm, centuries of destroying anyone or anything that threatened it's power. Aiding and abetting priests who abuse and rape children. Declaring that everyone else is simply going to hell when they die...this from the man who was instrumental in aiding and abetting previously mentioned child abusers and rapists.

Yeah, can't get a grip on where the anger comes from either.

Evangelical Christians are pretty much in the same boat.

Yes, they are, Jason, to an extent. Cetainly Evangelicals have stood just as strong for moral standards. But Evangelicals are fewer in number, even in America, and more importantly, they're less monolithic. The same people who trash the Catholic Church try to pig-pile on a straw man they call "fundamentalists," but nobody can really agree on who those people are. Catholics are a lot more convenient as a scapegoat, because you know where to point the fingers.

The thing everyone needs to remember is that often, such violent hate has no logical cause, and that its roots can be found in how the hater was raised. Those who speak out so destructively have been taught to do so from their college years, or even birth.

That being said, I think what with all the scandals that have come out, such as the sexual abuse of children, many people (including Protestants, and Catholics) have felt betrayed by the Church. You can't tell me that when the sexual abuse scandal came to light, at least some Catholics weren't so shocked that they left because they didn't want to be associated with a church that is now perceived to be a church of corrupt liars and rapists.

So it's a combination of mindless hate, and a feeling of betrayal. Personally, I support the Catholic Church, but as a Protestant, I'm very impatient with some of their doctrine. Which is why I won't start carrying a rosary around any time soon.