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The Good Old Days

The Bush years don't seem so bad now, huh?

Aside from the constant harping from the Democrats about Iraq, and charges of fear mongering from the liberal left, the economy was in a state of fiscal fitness.

Yet, how often did we hear, throughout the Bush years, of just how awful the economy was?

Even with inheriting the Clinton recession, the dot.com bubble implosion, Enron-type accounting practices, and a little thing like September 11th, elements of the economy were strong up until the last couple months of Bush's Presidency.

-The average annual rate of unemployment between 2001 and 2008 was 5.26%. (Since the election, it has since risen to 7.6%.)

-The average annual growth rate of GDP was 2.18%.

-The average annual rate of inflation was 2.8%.

Taxes were cut in 2003, and tax revenue went through the roof from '04 on.

We were on our way to cutting the budget deficit in half (At least until the Republicans in Congress started spending like they had it.).

We successfully fought 2 wars, and we hadn't had an attack in over 7 and a half years.

If it wasn't for the Democrats over the last 2 years forcing the banking and credit industries into making risky and immoral sub-prime mortgages, creating the fetid conditions for a collapse that people actually predicted in 2004, and that was the catalyst for our current economic troubles, maybe Obama wouldn't have inherited this mess.

Maybe we wouldn't have an Obama at all?

I don't want Obama to succeed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The success of the president does not mean success for the country. It gets truer by the minute with this serpent.

Just sayin', is all..


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Comments (56)

Oh look at the GOP playing ... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

Oh look at the GOP playing politics with America's future. They're trying there hardest to appear to be fiscal conservatives after their Bush spent money the likes of which have never been seen. Where were they then? Now Mike Huckabee says that the stimulus is anti religious? Is he serious? Who was the President when the economy tanked.
Why is it that the Republicans can make the mess but then stand by and do nothing but obstruct so no one can fix their mess? This financial meld down was brought to you by the Republican Free Market Con Job. Bush is justifiably criticized for excessive spending by Congress on his watch. The solution? Borrow three trillion and spend it. Right! Ditto heads out in full force tonight. Who taught you guy's grades 1-12? I know, I know, Hannity and Rush. If any of you had an original thought I would jump off the top of the capitol dome!

The Republicans are so dense they can't see that it was deregulation and tax cuts for the wealthy that created this mess. They have no ideas and are ethically and morally bankrupt. Just watch the bankers on Capitol Hill lying through their teeth and you'll see the real face of the GOP!

According to RNC Chair Michael Steele, temporary government-created jobs are not "real" jobs. (Bet our non-career soldiers would be surprised to hear that.) Even Bush's economic advisors' numbers showed that, at best, tax cuts replace only 50% of the money they cost the Treasury, and usually the return is much lower.

"The success of the preside... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"The success of the president does not mean success for the country."

Anyone want to lay a bet that the 'stimulus bill' will be short on 'stimulus' and long on social engineering? Matter of fact, the social engineering part will probably be implemented first. Priorities you know.

Hey Mr Hammer, would you please explain to me what $50 MILLION for a tidal flats mouse in San Francisco Bay has to do with 'stimulating the economy'?

JC Hammer -Governm... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

JC Hammer -

Government created jobs - jobs created within the government framework - ARE a drain on the economy. Where do you think the money comes from to pay the salaries?

For that matter - you're blasting the Republicans for not being fiscally conservative, while I've just watched the Democrats pass the largest bill ever - and they didn't even READ the damn thing first!

HOW in the hell am I supposed to infer from that little action that they're in ANY way preferable to Republicans?

GarandFan -

Do you have any idea how much it costs to make little life-vests for those mice, much less employ people to go out, find the mice, and then persuade them to WEAR the little life vests, or get them to sign a waiver (in quadruplicate) explaining they know how they might drown if they don't?

Show some sensitivity, man! (LOL)

As RNC Chair Michael Steele... (Below threshold)
le combat:

As RNC Chair Michael Steele recently said, "Government creates work, the private sector creates jobs." Which of the two provides more long-term security?

Let's see if we can help so... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Let's see if we can help someone to start using that great orb atop their neck for a change.

JC, I hereby request that you assume I'm a complete idiot, and explain to me, as you would a child, in excruciating detail, exactly how "... it was deregulation and tax cuts for the wealthy that created this mess."

Please, oh wise one. Teach me.

"...The economy was in a st... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

"...The economy was in a state of fiscal fitness.."

No, the economy was living on the housing bubble.

And, despite attempts to paint Democrats as the villains of this piece, a few of us remember Bush's "Ownership Society" meme, which touted how wonderful it was that low-income people were homeowners, and that he, George W. Bush, was responsible for that "accomplishment."

So don't give me this crap that the Democrats caused this or the Republicans caused that.

This is a bipartisan clusterfuck.

What is the name of ... (Below threshold)
gracecurl Author Profile Page:


What is the name of the mental illness that makes a person post something publicly that illustrates in great detail the depth of ones ignorance?

Yes grace, why do you?... (Below threshold)
Greg:

Yes grace, why do you?

JLawson: Re #3Leav... (Below threshold)
DSL:

JLawson: Re #3

Leave it to the rats in D.C to bail out their fellow vermin!

Perhaps someone who is invo... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

Perhaps someone who is involved in Obama's Fake Birth Certificate Conspiracy can come forward with the truth before it's too late.

Shawn, with all due respect... (Below threshold)
wolfwalker:

Shawn, with all due respect, your position is nonsense. And that comes from somebody who thinks the "stimulus" bill is an act of high treason and every single congressthing and senator that voted for it is a traitor.

The economic expansion of 2002-07 was entirely artificial, a bubble built on debt-spending by the government, companies, and consumers alike. The current crash is as bad as it is precisely because of all that accumulated debt.

I remember all the trolls i... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

I remember all the trolls in 2001 that assured us the recession happened on GW's watch.

Of course the trolls here did not read the whole piece. Just got their nose up when you pointed out the democratically lead congress in it's third year had the purse strings when this happened. Yes, this is almost entirely the dems failure. And they are so stupid, they think they can spend their way out. As Barry said, "When you are digging yourself in a whole, you got to dig faster". What a lame, small minded man.

The dems rammed this down everyones throat even though they promised 48 hours before the vote to allow people to read it. Of course they lied.

One year from now, I predict inflation in double digits as well and unemployment. Maybe even interest rates. The good news, 2010 we take back control of congress.

Barry and the lefties tout economists who back the plan. Question: Where were these "great minds" predicting this mess in the first place? ww

JC Hammer"The Repu... (Below threshold)
retired military:

JC Hammer

"The Republicans are so dense they can't see that it was deregulation and tax cuts for the wealthy that created this mess"

----------

Now liberals take note. Here we have another liberal who does NO RESEARCH and only goes by liberal talking points he hears.

JC here is a clue for you.

a. THERE WAS NO BANKING DEREGULATION DURING THE BUSH YEARS. SHOW ME ONE LINK TO A BILL THAT WAS PASSSED OR EXECUTIVE ORDER SIGNED THAT DEREGULATED THE BANKING INDUSTRY ESPECIALLY ONE DEALING WITH MORGAGES.

YOU CANT BECAUSE IT DOESNT EXIST.

B. The Bush TAX CUTS created the LARGEST REVENUE STREAM INTO THE TREASURY IN THE FORM OF TAX REVENUES IN HISTORY.

DO SOME RESEARCH INSTEAD OF MOUTHING LIBERAL TALKING POINTS.


The housing bubble was a di... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

The housing bubble was a direct result of the Community Reinvestment Act of the Carter years.
The Sweetness and Light blog has more on the scam artist Henrietta Hughes who was part of the Obama sad sack weep-o-rama in Ft. Myers Florida last week.

Scam artists, welfare cheats, parasites; unite! Brocko is here with Hope and Change!

"This is a bipartisan cl... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"This is a bipartisan clusterfuck."

That's true, to a point.
The Dems/Libs actively pushed for this idea of giving loans to people who had no business getting a loan. Especially if they were a 'minority' and most especially if they were black.

The Conservatives pushed back, but not hard enough.

The mushy moderates, like Bush, didn't push back at all.

Our watchdog media watched it all happen and was/is silent. Or published 'feel good' stories of 'pore and starvin' urban folks getting loans to fund their dreams. (No follow-up stories a few years later to see how it all worked out.)

Some banks, forced to give loans to deadbeats or else face accusations of 'racism', created outrageous loansharking ARM loans to make up for the losses they were going to take. Other scumbag banks expanded this scam and bundled these bad loans into other good loans.
Fanny and Freddy (meaning you and I, the taxpayer) guaranteed to pay these bad loans, thereby screwing all of us.

So yeah, the blame goes all around, but some deserve more blame than others.

And each of the lib... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:


And each of the liberals will wind up wishing for the Bush years, although they'll never admit such.

Personally, I'd like to thank the current admin for saddling me, and my progeny plus THEIR progeny with this debt.

Heck of a job, Obie.

The finance/home mortgage d... (Below threshold)
OLDPUPPYMAX:

The finance/home mortgage debacle was a deliberate attempt by the left to bring Marxism to the nation's financial industry. Big Brothers' sudden ownership of banks and lending intstitutions is far from accidental. And our leftist rulers in DC are far from finished with their work to destroy capitalism and the free enterprise system. The only good news? Should the black caucus and the rest of the left succeed in forcing "reparations" on taxpayers, we will all be in a position to apply for benefits! For slaves we shall all become.

My take is a bit different ... (Below threshold)
RicardoVerde:

My take is a bit different than Wolfwalker. Yes, the economic 'growth' from 2002-2007 was largely driven by the housing bubble (itself based on the faulty foundation of the CRA scam), but there was a component from the tax cuts that was real. The really strange thing about the stimu/porkulous bill is it dwarfs the debt-spending of anything before.
Why is it that spending $100 million a year in Iraq was destroying the country but we can spend a trillion or two on ACORN baubles and that is good? Mitigating the effects of a bubble crash by initiating a new, even larger, bubble is insanity.

Even with inheriting the... (Below threshold)
Parthenon:

Even with inheriting the Clinton recession, the dot.com bubble implosion, Enron-type accounting practices, and a little thing like September 11th, elements of the economy were strong up until the last couple months of Bush's Presidency.

Oh, that was great. Made my morning.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

The Dems/Libs actively pushed for this idea of giving loans to people who had no business getting a loan. Especially if they were a 'minority' and most especially if they were black.

In fact, assuming you're referring to the superscary CRA, this had nothing to do with the crisis. CRA loans were less likely to end up securitized, and most often carried lower rates than other subprime loans.

It is scary how easily you ... (Below threshold)

It is scary how easily you guys believe the lies you hear.

Why is it that spending ... (Below threshold)
Parthenon:

Why is it that spending $100 million a year in Iraq was destroying the country but we can spend a trillion or two on ACORN baubles and that is good?

Mind providing a cite that shows where ACORN is getting any money, and how much?

"In fact, assuming you'r... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"In fact, assuming you're referring to the superscary CRA, this had nothing to do with the crisis. CRA loans were less likely to end up securitized, and most often carried lower rates than other subprime loans."

It has everything to do with the crisis, though it was not the only thing to blame.
It further pushed the notion that you should give bad risk loans to people who should not have gotten loans. This mentality is now pervasive in society and in government, out of 'fairness' or to fight 'racism' or to be 'nice' to people.

I predict Barry O and his c... (Below threshold)
geminichuck:

I predict Barry O and his congress will spend this year totally screwing up the country (depression, terror attacks, socialism, immorality) and then spend the rest of his term trying to get the nation back into the condition George Bush left it in.

"Hey Mr Hammer, would you p... (Below threshold)
max:

"Hey Mr Hammer, would you please explain to me what $50 MILLION for a tidal flats mouse in San Francisco Bay has to do with 'stimulating the economy'?"

Hey GarandFan, I'll explain that one for you. It's a lie.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/stimulus-package/pelosi-staff-conservative-talking-point-about-30-million-for-mice-is-fabrication/

I really liked how you bumped the number up to 50 mil. though. Hey, if you're gonna lie, you might as well make it a good one, right?

willie, are you ok? Did you... (Below threshold)
max:

willie, are you ok? Did you know you used the phrase "democratically lead congress"? C'mon man, you know it should be "democrat lead congress".

I do like this totally made up quote, though:

"As Barry said, "When you are digging yourself in a whole, you got to dig faster".

That's funny.

Some real gems in this mess... (Below threshold)
apb:

Some real gems in this mess include $1.2 B in state grants for "youth activities", where the age of these poor yutes has been upped to 24; the corresponding $80 M for management oversight; $700 M for "comparative effectivenes research" of medical treatments for the NIH, and another $400 M for HHS.

$3.2 B for children and family services, another $1 B in energy assistance; $2 B for childcare and development; $2 B for the fabricated Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology"; $3 B for a "Prevention and Wellness Fund".

$13 B for the "Education for the Disadvantaged".

What a freakin' jackpot o' gummint crap. Over $26B above, and aside from growing the gummint, what's stimulated?

I enjoy alot of what you wr... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I enjoy alot of what you write, Shawn, but you haven't displayed your most reasoned work here. That is, unless you consider yourself to be a Neo-Conservative, as opposed to a true Conservative. Sad to say, but the Bush years were unsettling for Conservatives what with his taking license with our Constitution and his outrageous spending, not to mention his falling into the mould of the "war" presidents before him - Wilson, Roosevelt, and Johnson - progressive Democrats all.

What mystifies me is the defense of the Bush record that Republicans and many Conservatives feel the need to rush towards. Bush was no Conservative and his tenure of presidency was a travesty to true Conservatism. To be sure, Obama is worse, but only by degree.

I think that you and others here who fancy yourselves as true Conservatives should spend some time with the writings of Russel Kirk, Richard Weaver, and Robert Nisbet. One of the most useful and respected studies of American conservatism, George Nash's book The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America Since 1945, identifies these three men as the most important thinkers among what he calls traditionalist conservatives, who are more aligned with the Founders than any other political movement today. Spend some time with them and their intellectualism and you'll begin to see the repugnancy of Bush and his neo-cons.

Neo-Conservatives, the false Conservatives who got us into the Iraq mess and pushed hard for war with Iran, continue to hold their positions of prominence. This weakens true Conservatism and has made it sick. We'll be back once we're shed of these poseurs.

Until we objectively assess the Bush record against the metrics of true conservatism, the voters will only be offered two versions of the same thing and we will continue our march to socialism.

max - "I'll explain tha... (Below threshold)
Marc:

max - "I'll explain that one for you. It's a lie"


A total lie?

Well, no so much and when pointed out it wasn't you had nothing to offer but imbecilic nonsense.

Well, marcy marc, I'll just... (Below threshold)
max:

Well, marcy marc, I'll just repeat what I posted on that other thread, since you obviously need to read something a number of times before it sinks in.

From your own link, dumbass.

"The bill does not target the mouse, but rather wetlands restoration; the technique is to pull out items that money might go to and holding them up to ridicule. If they have San Francisco anywhere in the name, all the better."

How 'bout you show me exactly where, in the bill, 30 mil. is set aside exclusively for this mouse?

Holy crap, could you possibly be any more dense?

max, never said it specific... (Below threshold)
Marc:

max, never said it specifically "targeted" this poor, poor widdle mouse. Nice try at diversion, but it only proves just where "stupid lives".

Now, provide what I asked for, explain how none of this 30 mil won't be spent on the mouse when this portion of the bill is for "wetlands restoration," an area where the Salt Marsh Mouse lives?

BTW max - "I really lik... (Below threshold)
Marc:

BTW max - "I really liked how you bumped the number up to 50 mil. though. Hey, if you're gonna lie, you might as well make it a good one, right?"

Better check the numbers:

Obama said the bill doesn't contain "a single earmark." But whether one calls them "earmarks" or not, the Senate certainly added items that will benefit particular states. For example: $50 million for programs under the California-Bay Delta Act and $500 million for National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Md.
And just what is the California-Bay Delta Act you ask? (which you won't 'cause it makes you look misinformed once again)

It's part of the CALFED Bay-Delta Program, (PDF file)

Care to guess what this covers?

Well, you are the master of... (Below threshold)
max:

Well, you are the master of diversion, "lawyer" marc. FWIW, I believe you are a lawyer, since all you have is rhetorical tricks, no substance.

I was originally responding to GarandFan, who said, "Hey Mr Hammer, would you please explain to me what $50 MILLION for a tidal flats mouse in San Francisco Bay has to do with 'stimulating the economy'?" The implication being that 50 million (or 30, it's a BS number anyway) dollars is going to be spent exclusively on a mouse. I pointed out that that was a lie. I never said no money was going to wetland restoration.

You took my response as if it were standing alone. But again, that's what you do. You have no argument, yet you continue to spout shamelessly disingenous bullshit. That's how I know you're a lawyer, albeit not a very good one, I presume. It's also why you are a total waste of time.

Still no explanation how fu... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Still no explanation how funds spent on "wetlands restoration" won't end up improving the "lifestyle" of this poor, poor widdle mouse?

max - "It's also why you are a total waste of time."

That's obviously not true is it?

That's obviously not tru... (Below threshold)
Clay:

That's obviously not true is it?

max must have the time to 'waste' today.

Surprise, surprise, marc st... (Below threshold)
max:

Surprise, surprise, marc still can't read.

"Still no explanation how funds spent on "wetlands restoration" won't end up improving the "lifestyle" of this poor, poor widdle mouse?"

Where did I say it wouldn't? I said it was a lie that 50 mil was going to a mouse. But, of course you know that, you just get off on obfuscation.

I will say that you're not a total waste of time, but it's gotta be a pretty damn boring Saturday afternoon for me to respond to the likes of you. So you got that going for you. Which is nice.

max - "I said it was a ... (Below threshold)
Marc:

max - "I said it was a lie that 50 mil was going to a mouse."

Then you spent zero time reading, or comprehending if you did, the PDF file linked to.

Clay - "max must have t... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Clay - "max must have the time to 'waste' today."

I'll give him credit where due. He's gone way above [his] call of duty, which in the majority of cases are comments of the one or two line variety and full of more snark and comedy than a Last Comic Standing routine.

It should have read "billio... (Below threshold)
RicardoVerde:

It should have read "billion" vs "million", and the ACORN doesn't matter. It's a trillion or two on nothing. Even the congressmen don't know what the spending will really do.

Carter and the congress of the '70s have moved up a notch on the list.

Marc, you're nothing more t... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Marc, you're nothing more than an annoyance. What you're arguing is that one should be against tax cuts because it's just giving money to cute widdle kitty cats, your rationale being that some of the people who receive tax cuts have cats and so undoubtedly some of the money will be used to improve the lifestyle of cats.

You repeat your standard backed-into-a-corner routine. When one of your gobsmackingly dumb generalizations is shown to be based on lies and lack of fact and understanding, you resort to "prove that (some newly invented interpretation of what you originally said) was false!"

Well here's one for you. You're a schmuck. Prove that that's false.

Brian, You're a sc... (Below threshold)
maggie:

Brian,

You're a schmuck posting out of the air
attacks on another poster. The fact that max
and marc were having an entertaining tit for tat
doesn't make it your perjorative to rush in
insulting right off of the bat.
Par for course, you're as usual uncivil.

George Bush did provide ple... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

George Bush did provide plenty of laughs for the late night comics and SNL. But now Joe Biden comes along. The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.

brian - "By the way, as... (Below threshold)
Marc:

brian - "By the way, assuming you meant "prerogative", instead of "perjorative", you might want to put up a notice that there's a new rule that everyone needs special permission to comment on someone else's conversation. I don't think that's generally known."

Fine, let's just say between us two (except for one which makes it JUST you) that's the rule then BUTT the hell out.

I mean I'm an "annoyance" (one you just can't resist) so it shouldn't be a problem.

But it is and always will be whether it be me or any one of a dozen others you "select" for your special brand of asshattedness.

the economy was in a sta... (Below threshold)
Palinisevil:

the economy was in a state of fiscal fitness.

LOL. You actually believe that, you can actually lie to yourself? Dubya had eight years to get the economy right and he screwed the pooch. Eight years of GOP has got us to where we are today. You can blame Clinton all you like, and you will, but that was eight years ago!

Your almighty Dubya, that you voted for twice, screwed you over just as much as any Liberal. It's just you can't stray from party lines so you'll never be able to put the blame where it belongs, at Dubya's feet.

But using this logic, every bad move that Obama makes, and he'll make his fair share. Will obviously be all Dubya's fault. Mmmm, this is going to be fun. :)

And saying I don't want ... (Below threshold)
Palinisevil:

And saying I don't want Obama to succeed is what we've come to expect on neocon blogs. You'd rather the country fail than see a Liberal President turn the economy round. Partisan politics is a lot of the times just a game, here we see it's evil side.

It's just you can't stra... (Below threshold)
Clay:

It's just you can't stray from party lines so you'll never be able to put the blame where it belongs, at Dubya's feet.

I agree with you. However, it is your own ideological bias that wil pevent you rom objectively viewing Obama in the sae way.

I agree, Clay. I've admitte... (Below threshold)
Palinisevil:

I agree, Clay. I've admitted before that i'm partisan, but i'm not so far left that i'll accept anything like some on on the right here will.

The "stimulus" bill for instance hasn't been allowed to go into effect yet and neocons are saying it's the worst economic disaster since 1929. Their partisan politics won't allow them to see any good points, only bad. If the economy turns around they'll find any excuse to say it wasn't the bill but something Dubya did. *eyeroll*

But if the economy is still in the dumps and we need another "stimulus" i'll be the first to stand up and say this one was a failure.

As i said partisan politics can be fun. But when you willingly want people to suffer just to satisfy your hatred on the other side, that's just evil and to coin a neocon phrase, very anti-American.

I've admitted before tha... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I've admitted before that i'm partisan,

Pretty safe to assume that somebody who uses "Palinisevil" as a moniker is fairly partisan. Ahem.

The "stimulus" bill for instance hasn't been allowed to go into effect yet and neocons are saying it's the worst economic disaster since 1929.

But, do we have to allow it go into effect before we can make an assessment? Experience is a very good teacher. The neocons don't like it merely because of their talking points (probably the same reason the liberals like it). But, neither side is educating themselves on the principles on why it is, or isn't, good. Spend some time reading both sides of the economic coin. Try reading Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson for another perspective. Very concise with short chapters. Stay clear of the neocon stuff. You and I can agree on that.

Let's not fall into the same trap that the neocons did with Bush, by not blindly following Obama. Our forefathers didn't trust government for a reason.

Pretty safe to assume th... (Below threshold)
Palinisevil:

Pretty safe to assume that somebody who uses "Palinisevil" as a moniker is fairly partisan. Ahem.

I think it's pretty safe to assume 99% of the people on this site are partisan, it's just not many are honest about it.

The neocons don't like it merely because of their talking points (probably the same reason the liberals like it).

I think it's a little bit of a generalization to say Liberals like it, many don't like it but want to at least give it a chance to work before they call it a failure. The last "stimulus", the porktastic Dubya "stimulus" was a failure. We borrowed massively from China, to pay for a "stimulus" that every Liberal said at the start wouldn't work. We were right. So i guess because of partisan politics all i can expect is neocons to do the same thing to this bill.

I hope the economy turns round, i'm only 25 and haven't seen our country in this much of a mess in my adult life. I wouldn't say i blindly follow Obama, but i still have hope that he'll take us out of this mess. It's one of the reasons why people my age voted Obama, we wanted change not another 4 years of GOP. Some would argue that my color decided my vote, but being black didn't sway me, i would have voted for Hillary just as fervently to get change. Palin offered no change, all she offered was 4 more years of the same.

I wouldn't say i blindly... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I wouldn't say i blindly follow Obama, but i still have hope that he'll take us out of this mess.

I share your hope, but I'm afraid you'll find he's not that much different than Bush. I've seen your 25 years, and have had 25 more beyond you. In that time I've finally come to see a basic truth: A Republican is a Democrat, and vice-versa. My prediction is that at the end of the four years we'll still be in Iraq, we'll have increased our presence in Afghanistan, we'll have a draft, and the stimulus package will be seen for what it is, a massive spending bill to pay back political favors. But, our attention will be diverted to some other 'crisis' or crises. Welcome to three card monte, the big leagues.

Wake up. Do not hit the snooze button.

For those who support the '... (Below threshold)
maggie:

For those who support the 'stimulus' bill, some
interesting reading by an expert who has been
there and that.

http://www.therightperspective.org/?p=1472


I can't imagine those who represent a constituency signing any bill
without reading it before doing so.


"Then you spent zero time r... (Below threshold)
max:

"Then you spent zero time reading, or comprehending if you did, the PDF file linked to."

I didn't even open it. Didn't need to. You obviously didn't read, or couldn't comprehend, GarandFans original comment. Which makes everything you say totally irrelevant.


Thanks, Brian. It really was an excruciatingly boring afternoon. I knew it was futile, but I hate assholes, and marc is grade A.

Maggie, nobody cares about your infatuation with Brian. Please keep it to yourself. It's kinda creepy.
depp=true

max, The next time y... (Below threshold)
maggie:

max,
The next time you cross the line you're going
on the permanent short list.

Thanks for the link, maggie... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Thanks for the link, maggie. It's interesting that as America rushes pell-mell into the arms of socialism, those with experience are retreating from its clutches.

A Republican is a Democr... (Below threshold)
Palinisevil:

A Republican is a Democrat, and vice-versa.

Clay, my dad says the same thing. He still voted for Obama, but he said nothing changes the way politicians tell you it will. I agree we'll still be in Iraq, long after many on here have declared Iraq a victory. I hope there isn't a draft, but i agree there is a possibility. I think most can see it was a spending bill, but i still have hope it'll work.

Yes, well have some other crisis to take our minds off what the politicians are doing. They know how to play the media against us, they always have.

Clay, my dad says the sa... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Clay, my dad says the same thing. He still voted for Obama, but he said nothing changes the way politicians tell you it will.

I can't say as I blame you or your dad (he sounds like a smart guy if he says the same thing that I do. LOL). Me? I've decided that I'm done voting for the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, I voted for McCain and I hate the fact that that means I voted against my principles. Never again!

I've been a lifelong Republican, but I'm pretty much done with both parties. I may be giving up voting for the 'winner', but if I'm consistently voting my principles, I'll at least sleep better at night.

Ron Paul has done a fantastic job attracting folks from the left and right. He really does have a unifying message because truth resonates. Check out his website at www.campaignforliberty.com

Another book you may want to check out is Are You Liberal? Conservative? or Confused? by Richard Maybury. That was my turning point from the Republican party to thought more closely aligned with our country's founding and that transcends the pettiness of the two parties.

It was good chatting with you. Say 'hi' to your dad.

By the way, Pal. I really f... (Below threshold)
Clay:

By the way, Pal. I really feel for your generation. I'm truly sorry that my generation didn't leave this in better shape for you. But, there's alot of hope. Educate yourself and prepare to be a leader. America will need some strong ones.

And don't get caught up in the rhetoric of either party. I wasted so many years doing just that and am only now waking up to the sham that each of the parties are pulling. But, like your dad, I did the best I could. Hey, who said old dogs can't learn new tricks?

Read as much as you can about the country's founding. That's the missng element in the Republicrats' messages. We can quite arguing about the silly stuff that won't matter in 20 years, and focus on a better country for your children.

Good luck.




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