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Another settlement

Should people living within the boundaries of the Diocese of Orange County take this news into consideration when the next annual Bishop's appeal is made?

A former student at St. John the Baptist School who claimed that a priest there sexually abused him in the 1990s has settled his lawsuit against the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange.

The terms of the diocese's settlement with plaintiff Jonathan Kirrer, now 24, were not disclosed. His attorneys objected to publicizing them, though the archdiocese didn't.

The Orange County District Attorney's Office is investigating Kirrer's claim that the Rev. Denis Lyons sexually abused him in 1994 and 1995.

Kirrer is pleased with the settlement and hopes to put the civil case behind him, said his attorney, V. James DeSimone.

*****

Archdiocese spokesman Ryan Lilyengren said the settlement money will come partly from insurance money and an administrative account. The agreement would not affect spending for the schools or the parishes, he added.

Unless the diocese has a magical printing press, the money had to be taken from something. Maybe people who were worthwhile of help from the diocese.

Church and diocese finances are rarely made known to the faithful. That's till a scandal breaks out. Like two Diocese of Palm Beach priests who embezzled perhaps over a million dollars from the Parrish they ran. There was also this bank scandal the Vatican got itself involved in. Laundering money for the mafia is God's work. As is cutting off the insurance to a mother on pregnancy bedrest.

Lyons has been excommunicated from the church, Lilyengren said, but it is unclear whether the Vatican will defrock him.
Lyons gets excommunicated for molesting boys. Then tell me why the stepfather in this story doesn't have the same done to him? Costing the Catholic Church money Embarrassing the Roman Catholic Church is probably a greater sin than getting a nine-year-old girl pregnant.

Consistency or logic thy name isn't the Roman Catholic church.


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Comments (28)

Lyons broke his vows of the... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Lyons broke his vows of the Priesthood along with betraying the trust of his congregation.

It is my understanding that all defrocked priests are excommunicated though I could be wrong.

Really Bill, your constant drumbeat against the Catholic chuch is getting old.


BillI mean, where... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Bill

I mean, where is your article on a girl getting flogged by her Iman for not fighting back hard enough when she was raped?

WHere are your articles on Buddhist monks helping out people who grow drugs and sell them?

Where are your articles on school teachers molesting children in their care.

What about the baby sitters who were raping the children in their care currently on the Drudge report. Arent you going to go out and demean and denigrate any and all baby sitters?

You have a serious axe to grind against the Catholic Church and it shows. I understand you had a personal tragedy but if you are going to use Wizbang as your personal bashing tool against the Catholic Church than as a reader of Wizbang I ask that you go elsewhere because it is getting old.

I got an axe to grind all r... (Below threshold)

I got an axe to grind all right. In 2003 my wife and I got a dead baby. The Bishop of Palm Beach whose employees did what they did my wife and son, got promoted to Cardinal. See money matters, not life.

Instead attacking the messenger, why don't you express some outrage at the continuing travesties these rotten people continue to hoist on the people of their church? I reported the news, the church molested thousands of young people. Who's crime is the one that should be screamed loud and clear? You want to muzzle me, and you are only helping these criminals.

The above story is to make a point. The church still is covering up what they did and its consequences. The payout is going to have impact on church serivces in some way, rather than admit it they continue to lie.

Another ignorant anti-Catho... (Below threshold)

Another ignorant anti-Catholic remark from Mr. Jempty.

Bill, you got the teaching of the Catholic Church on sin completely wrong last time out and on financials this time out. These are errors of fact, not opinion.

Each Catholic diocese publishes its finances, unlike many a Protestant community. The Diocese of Charlotte, of which I'm a member, does so at the parish level at least annually.

Is there any other community---religious or otherwise---to which you apply your standard of financial transparency?

When will we get a look at Wizbang's financials, Bill? That would be a start.

And should Wizbang ever get sued and have to settle the lawsuit, we presume the money will come from somewhere.

And I gave a nice big donation to our diocese just this morning. Whoops, no money left for the Wizbang tip jar.

BillI read about you... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Bill
I read about your tragedy before.
Everyone knows that people in the church has made mistakes in the past and they will make them in the future.
People are not perfect.
You did not get satisfaction your case and you are very bitter (and it shows).
Are you still a member of the church? If so why?
You compare the above case with others, yet different people are involved and different circumstances. THe decision makeers are different as well.
The Archbishop of Brazil is not the same archbishop that deals with this case yet you act as if it is the same person.
Nothing I can say will have an effect on the anger you feel for the church.
I have a good friend who is a priest who was wrongfully accused of abusing someone. I know that the priest is innocent. I was an altar boy at the church at the time of the alleged incident. The accuser was not even an altar boy at the time. The accuser later admitted to wanting money from the church for drugs.
Now my friend had his name smeared in the papers and no retraction or follow on story was ever printed. THe papers dont care about printing the truth, they only care about smearing the church whenever they can.

I am sorry for you loss. Yet you blame the church when I am sure other factors were involved. Crack mothers have children who survive pregnancy all the time under the most stenuous of circumstances. Other unborn children die even though their mothers are healthy and they have the best of care. Can you stand here and say "yes my child would have lived had the church dones X, y and Z?" No you cant because you are not God and you dont know. You are angry and you are looking at someone to take the anger out on. You are looking for someone to blame. ANd I know that pointing it out wont change a thing.

The Church stands against abortion, it always has and hardly anyone else stands with them. In AMerica, over a million children a year die due to abortion. They say one death is a tragedy (especially when you are affected by it) and a million deaths are a statistic.
Are some people within the church bad? Yes. But dont condemn the whole for a few. Especially when the few are given all the press and deliberately so.




BTW when my priest friend w... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW when my priest friend was undergoing his trials he told me that the church has pretty much left the priests alone to deal with the civil suits now.

And here's still more proof... (Below threshold)

And here's still more proof of Bill Jempty's slide into anti-Catholic bigotry with complete disregard to fact.

Jempty says: "Church and diocese finances are rarely made known to the faithful."

Here's the report for the Diocese of Orange referenced in his diatribe above:

http://www.rcbo.org/site/images/stories/financial_audit_for_fy_2007.pdf

Took all of 10 seconds of a Google search and trolling through the Diocese home page to find this.

What a shame that Jempty no longer feels enough fealty to truth to devote 10 seconds to checking his facts.

I'm sure we're all sorry for the loss of your child and the impact it's had upon you and your family, Bill, but resorting to such sloppiness and lies is beneath you and beneath this blog.

The Church has been around for 2,000 years. There are plenty of things to criticize her members for over that period. Indeed, Pope Benedict XVI just met with Jewish leaders to apologize for the way The Vatican handled the lifting of excommunications on the SSPXers, including one bishop who was (unbeknownst to the Pontiff) a Holocaust denier. This follows B16's trip to America where he met personally with victims of sexual abuse.

If the Vicar of Christ on Earth can publicly apologize in so humble a way, perhaps one day we'll see Mr. Jempty correct his errors in this post and that condemning the Brazilian archbishop.

So now your upset because t... (Below threshold)
STaylor:

So now your upset because the Catholic Church did excommunicate a child molester and is making restitution for the man's crimes? I suppose you would have preferred that the Church promoted the priest in question and told the victim to go fly a kite; though I am sure you would have written an outraged posting about that to, and you would have been right in your anger.
The case in Brazil was a different parish, diocese, country and continent as well as Bishop; different decesions are going to be made. Besides you obviosly felt that the Bishop in Brazil acted wrongly so by any sort of rational thought process should be pleased when the Bishop in Orange County does the opposite. Instead you excoriate the Church for not making the same desicion as they did in Brazil which you consider a wrong decision. Can we at least expect your outrage to be consistent in the future?
Next Jempty post: Catholic Bishop Disgraces Self by Sneezing.

Financial transparency we'r... (Below threshold)

Financial transparency we're talking now

The pastor of the church we attend now who promised to publish audit results 3 years ago. Parishoners are still waiting.

Its known the previous pastor ran one church he worked at into the ground before coming to ours. He apparently did the same here. We went from having tens of thousands in the bank to being in 6 figure debt.

The two priests I cited above, arrested, indicted and convicted and found guilty of embezzlement. It is alleged 8 million dollars from the parrish they were pastor. How could this happen?

Simple it was diocese policy only to do an audit when a church changed pastors. If a pastor was there for many years, he could siphon off thousands, if not millions in the case of these two crooks, and the diocese could just say 'we don't know'. The audit policy about 5 years ago, but one of those two pastors delayed an audit from being done as long as he could and kept stealing. The diocese still had no backbone.

The finance director of the PB diocese back in the 1990's is alleged to have stolen 400,000.

http://www.wpbf.com/news/1532764/detail.html

Two bishops of Palm Beach were resigned in disgrace because of sex scandals.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0CE7D7163EF937A3575AC0A9649C8B63

O'Malley was here for what happened to my wife.

The current Bishop Barbarito has a priest in New Jersey spreading allegations about him. I looked into that(A letter making accusations was posted to the PB Post website and then unpublished within 24 hours which I saw and investigated. I actually brought the Media Bloggers association and their legal consul into it because I thought about publishing the allegations but didn't) and the priest has a history of filing lawsuits and the allegation story is at least third hand. I'm inclined to disbelieve it but that doesn't necessarily mean it can't be true.

Seth- The work of multiple dioceses. But aren't they both doing god's work and if they are, wouldn't the punishment for sex offenders be the same? They're doing the work of man not God.

But they are men and often ... (Below threshold)
STaylor:

But they are men and often represent a variety of opinions. Another example of this would be this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090315/
ap_on_re_eu/eu_vatican_brazil_girl_s_abortion
(I hope the URL works)
Besides there is a concrete difference between the offenders; one was a priest and the other wasn't. Shouldn't a priest be held to a higher moral standard and thus subjected to a higher punishment? Besides this operates under the assumption that it is the Catholic Church's job is to punish those who commit crimes with excommunication. But that is neither its job or function as it holds that those who commit sins in this life will be judged in the next. Excommunication is a way for the Church to police its own and to take concrete stances on issues like abortion, not to punish the guilty.

I had many physically abusi... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

I had many physically abusive incidents while as a student in Catholic schools myself including a physical abuse incident where a nun hit me in the face for no good reason, then lied about the incident, then attempted to force me to claim that the incident didn't happen to the parish priest and Mother Superior. I dropped out of Catholic schools after this, and eventually stopped attending Catholic mass altogether.

While there are many good people in this institution, it's also filled with many crappy people who lie about physical and sexual abuse. Compared to most institutions in society, it's probably one of the worst organizations out there for this sort of stuff. Yet many people still are part of this church for some unknown reason. And so few priests exist these days due to disillusionment, etc. that most Catholics no longer receive a burial by a priest either, even after spending a lifetime in the church. And lawsuits against this organization have left many parishes financially wrecked.

General Motors is probably in much better health than this religious organization which has been seriously ruined by it's own wrong unBiblical teachings about birth control, priest celibacy, etc., two faced hypocrisy and sexual abuse scandals. And many Protestant churches aren't too much better, with shakedowns of tithe money from little old ladies so that they can live millionaire lifestyles.

However, many good churches still exist out there, and there are still many good nuns and priests as well. Some churches are excellent with really fine persons who attend and help one another or sponsor important outreach programs such as alcohol or drug treatment.

Bill, not even a passing no... (Below threshold)

Bill, not even a passing nod to the fact that the diocese you critized above has its financials posted publicly on its web page for anybody to see?

If you even bothered to check out the link I posted, you'll see that the YOY cash donations for the Orange County diocese were significantly increased.

This is what distinguishes the anti-Catholic from mere critics of the Church---the inability to deal with facts, no matter how inconvenient. It's pure irrational bigotry on your part at this point to judge by your weak responses.

Notice that no Catholic in the comments on this thread or your last ridiculous post regarding the Brazilian archbishop who dared to defend Church teaching on abortion in the face of a 9 year old girl aborting her twin children has made any claim that every diocese in the 1 billion strong Catholic Church has proven to be utterly transparent in financial dealings nor free of clerical abuses of any stripe.

Standards are universal, however. Before singling out the Catholic Church for condemnation, you might want to check to be sure that whatever church you belong to at present holds to a superior standard.

Unless of course you honestly don't care and simply look for whatever stick is at hand to bash whatever parish out there in communion with the Bishop of Rome makes the news this week.

You are consistent in one thing only and that's your bigotry, Bill.

It's your right to spout whatever nonsense you like. There are plenty of us around armed with the facts to limit the damage you do to your fellow anti-Catholics, the only people who will be persuaded by the garbage you write on this subject.

If you dont like the Cathol... (Below threshold)
retired military:

If you dont like the Catholic church why attend?
If the Catholic Church is so corrupt then why be a member of it?

You are being illogical unless of course you believe that it is men being men (and making mistakes) and the Church is still a worthwhile entity to be a part of.

I reread about your baby being born. YOu are so convinced that it was the actions of the church that caused the death of your baby. Yet you totally ignore all the other factors that are there. The previous miscarriage, the difficult pregnancy, etc etc. As I stated before, you have no proof that what the Clergy or the church did caused your child to die. Instead you are looking for someone or something to blame (which can be a natural reaction) and you are letting that hatred eat you alive.
If you are truly Catholic than you know that your baby would not have died had it not been part of God's plan. God knew what would happen and could have stopped it if He had so chosen. Are you next going to blame God as so many do in situations like yours?
I suggest you speak to a clergy member YOU RESPECT on your feelings about this incident, the Church, and God in general.


"that most Catholics no lon... (Below threshold)
STaylor:

"that most Catholics no longer receive a burial by a priest either, even after spending a lifetime in the church."

And I suppose that you have a source for this.

"Yet many people still are part of this church for some unknown reason"

Could it be because in spite of what you and others say, many people have had good experences with the Catholic Church and believe in the doctrines and teachings it espouses

As for the old canard about priest celibacy you are indeed correct, the bible does not command that priests be celibate. Fortuenently the Catholic Church is not, or ever has been, solo scriptura and as a rich liturigical and oral tradition independent of the bible. In fact the doctrine of priest celibacy is relatively new and only a few hundred years ago priests could get married and have kids; though their were orders that did require celibacy. This was changed as an anti-Corruption measure as too many Bishops and priests starting treating there positions, and attached Church possesions, as hereditary to be passed on to their children. Even so it is still possible for a married man to become a Catholic priest, esspecially in the Eastern Rite churches. It always amazes me how much priest celibacy irritates those who are not even Catholic. You don't like it, you can found your own two thousand year old religion to boss around.

BillLet me ask you... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Bill

Let me ask you some questions (not to be answered here) and I ask them in all sincerity and am not trying to be flip at all.

If your son had lived would you have taught him to go to church?

Would you have said "Hey son, time to go to church which is run by all the money grubbing hypocrits, liars, and child molesters."

Would have taught him "Son, God is great but only when you get what you want. WHen you dont get what you want then God sucks."

Would have taught him that it is okay to condemn others whenever they do something that doesnt agree with what you?

Would you have taught him it is fine to hate others when you believe they have wronged you? To despise them because you dont agree with their actions?

Ask yourself, if your son had lived what would you have taught him about life, the Church, religon and God. Is that reflected in your writings?

Didnt God give his only Son to mankind, knowing that He would be beaten, abused, and killed, that people would misuse and abuse His gift to us for their own ends?

Staylor,Hooson never... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Staylor,
Hooson never cites. He only pulls 'facts' out of his ass.

I myself was never able to ... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

I myself was never able to find any purpose or solace in organized religion. All most of them are in my view is money-grubbing, corrupt corporations exploiting their members for cash. That being said, I don't look down on those who do. I married one.

When you're a shareholder of a corporation you have to almost expect extortion,embezzlement, and exploitation. Where organized religion really goes beyond the pale is that they also have child members that they can sodomize and destroy their lives.

Ryan"Where organiz... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Ryan

"Where organized religion really goes beyond the pale is that they also have child members that they can sodomize and destroy their lives.
"

Funny you dont mention the public school system.

RyanTell me. How ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Ryan

Tell me. How many NEW cases have shown up in the past 3-4 years? 1? maybe 2 a year?

How many school teachers have you heard in the past 3-4 years invovled with students. I would say at least twice that.

With the addition of FOCA that Obama wants passed teachers are going to be and are currenlty complicit with child abuse due to nonparental notification of abortion on young children. Indeed, teachers can take young students across state lines without parental permission for abortions. Notification of authorities doesnt happen. So public school teachers are being compliciit in the rape and molestation of children.
Shall we also discuss the liberal indoctrination going on in schools as well?

Arent you going to condemn the public school system as well?

Indeed, no mention of babys... (Below threshold)

Indeed, no mention of babysitter pedophiles from this story today either:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090314/D96TME501.html

Now, I find it hard to believe those people considered themselves to be religious to any degree, but the story says nothing about it. The Left Wing Media being what it is, I presume if they were "Bible-thumpers" they'd have mentioned it.

And of course Los Angeles public schools are in the midst of a sexual abuse scandal coverup right now:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/08/local/me-rooney8

Mind you, this isn't a scandal from years or decades ago---it's going on right now.

As for the undercovered Protestant sexual abuse scandals, a good litany from a couple years back may be found here for anyone who doesn't want to use Google or Lexis/Nexis to dig up the sad story on their own:

http://www.reformation.com/

And there are now stories daily about teachers sexually abusing their students so anyone with Google can find all of those stories they like.

Even in a Left Wing Media which desperately wishes that such crimes were a Catholic phenomenon.

"So public school teache... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

"So public school teachers are being compliciit in the rape and molestation of children.
Shall we also discuss the liberal indoctrination going on in schools as well?
"

You had something going there for a minute, and then you flew off the deep end of the crazy pool, which is what you and your ilk do. I don't know how to respond to your questions without dropping a bunch of acid or smoking some PCP. Sorry.

RyanJust what I th... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Ryan

Just what I thought. Typical liberal.

Notice I didnt say all public school teachers, or the majority of public school teachers, or even a minority of public school teachers. I am talking about a select few. The same way a select few clergy have abused their trust. But you condemn all organized religion based on the actions of those few.

Truth hurths doesnt it?

RyanWhat do you ca... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Ryan

What do you call it when a teacher takes a 12 year old student to get an abortion? DOesnt notify the police, the parents, anything? No parental notification nescessary. Is that not complicit in the rape and molestation of children?

WHat about the numerious times Planned Parenthood has not reported to police the underage children that come through their doors for abortion? After all sex with a 12 year old is considered statutory rape even if she was willing. Yet you say nothing about them. No police are notified to even find out if the child was raped or is still being raped or molested.

That doesnt matter though unless it is a clergyman doing the abuse now does it.

Ryan Here is somet... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Ryan

Here is something for your acid and PCP induced fog (dont tell me, let me guess, you voted for Obama didnt you, drugs will do that too you).

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,342121,00.html
Physics Teacher Allegedly Gets Student Pregnant, Takes Her to Get Abortion

www.theage.com.au/news/national/teacher-paid-for-birthday-abortion/2008/
Mar 28, 2008 ... A teacher celebrated his birthday by taking his student lover to a motel before paying for her abortion and driving her home


Hope that Acid and PCP does you some good.

Meanwhile Salon.com ask the... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Meanwhile Salon.com ask the question

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2009/01/14/student_teacher_sex/
Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2009 11:23 PST
Should student-teacher sex always be illegal?


Hey since they arent clergy than it is okay right Ryan.

Bill, get some councelling ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Bill, get some councelling so you can put this behind you. It is eating you up. Retired Military made some very fine and reasoned points about the church and your experience. I recommend chewing on them for awhile (Selah). ww

Bill Jempty, Feel ... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Bill Jempty,

Feel free to inform the Bishop Eck wannabes who claim the Roman church enforces some kind of rough justice on its Gold Club members (excommunication, HA! From WHAT?), that Cardinal Law, the Boston Facilitator, was SUBSEQUENTLY promoted to the office in charge of CHILDREN AND FAMILIES at the Holy See (google) where he remains to this day.

This same...person was simultaneously put in charge of tending to the interred corpse of Pope John Paul II.

That's right. Cardinal "Where-have-his-hands-been-recently" Law , Church Star. He's on Google.

So John Paul II, who public... (Below threshold)

So John Paul II, who publicly humiliated a bishop in Nicaragua who refused a cease-and-desist order for holding a Sandinista political office, who faced down the Soviet Union at the risk of his life (two assassination attempts), supposedly went squishy on Cardinal Law?

Or perhaps it was Pope Benedict XVI, whose Friday penance for years was his responsibility to read through the files of the clergy accused of sexual abuse, who was so moved by the suffering of the victims that he made it a priority on his American trip to meet personally with a group of them.

Or maybe it was one of Dan Brown's kung fu monsignors.

Why don't you read "The Faithful Departed" and see what the Church's reaction really was and why? It's well-researched and not very flattering to the Church, but it's fact.

The bottom line is the American bishops in particular abandoned the Church's sin-based view of sexual perversion and bought way too much into the therapeutic culture---the notion that people given over to evil could be "cured" through counseling. Guess what---an awful lot of American institutions adopted the same line of garbage. Many still do. (Thus the continuing crisis of sexual abuse in public education).

This plus the closeness of some American Catholic bishops to certain political dynasties (read: the Kennedys) led to bogus practice of sending pedophiles for counseling. Unfortunately, there weren't many people in the 70s and 80s who through that such things were virtually incurable and required incarceration and strict monitoring. Even today sex offenders are released only to violate probation and reoffend.

And no shadowy Church prelates are necessary for this. It happens everywhere.

Should the Church have known better, contending for centuries with evil? Yes.

Put not your faith in princes. Nor in psychiatrists. Nor in Oprah.




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