Lee, is that you?!?

Bill - don't be too hard on Teflon93 as he's covered by 1ƒ one who had only an imperfect use of reason; Teflon93 may still be suffering from BDS, in which case he's also covered by 2ƒ one who was lacking the use of reason because of culpable drunkenness or other mental disturbance of a similar kind;

Bill, I'm not sure about Teflon93 and his motivations.

But I am deeply concerned about you. Your animosity toward the Catholic Church -- not just stupid and evil people in the church, which is to be expected of any group -- but toward the entire Church, speaks of a bereavement that is stuck in anger. Anger can turn to bitterness which can turn to hatred, and none of that is good.

You can place blame in several places for the death of your little boy. You could blame the hospital that gave him the blood infection that took his life. You could blame the Catholic Church for the lack of good insurance. You could blame your wife, though it is not her fault, that she has a problem with her reproduction system and cannot bear you a child.

You chose the Catholic Church, and I think that's the best place to put blame. Look at our symbol -- not a cross, but a crucifix. Jesus is on display in our churches, suffering and dying on the cross for you. There has only been one Christian to walk the earth, and that is Him. But He gives all of us the chance to give our suffering to Him, to know what we are loved and our suffering is His. Blame the Church if you must -- Jesus can take it.

But then you must move on. You are stuck. You have to get beyond this. When you think of your baby boy you should feel blessed to know him, to have the experience, however short, of having him in your life.

I cycled many times through the stages of grief before I came to accept the loss of my nephew, whom I helped raise and who I loved like my own sons. When I think of little Jonah now I am just so happy I had a chance to know him for his short time here.

You seem like a great person who is slowly being consumed by grief. I don't want that to happen. I am praying for peace for you.

Bill, one question: Did you ask and receive permission to publish an excerpt from a "private email?"

If not your out of line.

"It isn't automatic. If it was, the nine-year-old would be ex-communicated too. "

Not nescessarily. What if the 9 year old had been opposed to the abortion and was forced to go along with it. That in my mind is a violation almost as much as the rape.

Whether I agree with Teflon or not, I feel that this column is out of line. Other posters have done far worse than Teflon and have not been called out in such a public manner. I have been reading Wizbang for about 2 years now and I have seen maybe 3 readers called out publicly. The others deserved it, IMO Teflon didnt. I suppose I am next.

Bill

http://www.excommunication.net/Canonical_action/Abortion_related_canons.htm
Canon law 2272

2272: "Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. 'A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,' [CIC, can. 1398.] 'by the very commission of the offense,' [CIC, can. 1314.] and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. [Cf. CIC, cann. 1323-1324.] The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society." "Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. 'A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,' [CIC, can. 1398] 'by the very commission of the offense,' [CIC, can. 1314] and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. [Cf. CIC, cann. 1323-1324] The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society." "Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. 'A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,' [CIC, can. 1398] 'by the very commission of the offense,' [CIC, can. 1314] and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law [Cf. CIC, cann. 1323-1324]. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society."

2273: The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation: "The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority... As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights." [79 and 80] The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation: "The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority... As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights." [79 and 80] The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation: "The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority... As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights." [79 and 80]

2322: From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 #3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.

This flies in the face of your earlier statement
"Lyons gets excommunicated for molesting boys. Then tell me why the stepfather in this story doesn't have the same done to him? Costing the Catholic Church money Embarrassing the Roman Catholic Church is probably a greater sin than getting a nine-year-old girl pregnant. "

Also if you follow the link Canon law 2272, 2273 and 2322 deal SPECIFICALLY WITH ABORTION, THOSE WHO AID IN IT AND THOSE WHO PROCURE IT.

and it states at the top

"latae sententiae -- used in reference to a form of penalty that is automatically incurred on committing an offence, without the intervention of a judge or Superior.
"

I believe you owe Teflon an apology. His reasoning was sound IMO. The only way I can see the Canon law you cited above enacted would possibly be

"3ƒ one who acted in the heat of passion which, while serious, nevertheless did not precede or hinder all mental deliberation and consent of the will, provided that the passion itself had not been deliberately stimulated or nourished"

or

"8ƒ one who erroneously, but culpably, thought that some one of the circumstances existed which are mentioned in Can. 1323, nn. 4 or 5;"
(which states)
"4ƒ acted under the compulsion of grave fear, even if only relative, or by reason of necessity or grave inconvenience, unless, however, the act is intrinsically evil or tends to be harmful to souls;

5ƒ acted, within the limits of due moderation, in lawful self-defense or defense of another against an unjust aggressor; "

As to what is actually happening between the bishops and archbishops I dont know. I do believe that the Church Hierarchy do indeed owe the people of the Church a specific answer on this matter. I have a feeling that there is something else going on behind the scenes that is not known publically or is not being reported.

Go ahead and write a column calling me a Pathetic wizbang poster if you want.

Bill

"What a pathetic hate filled loser Teflon93 is."

I have seen one person posting the last week or so who could be described as hate filled. That person is you.

And using Wizbang as your own personal bully pulpit against the Church borders as well as publically decrying in a special column, someone who disagrees with your stance on the subject, borders on my definition of loser.

signed
Retired Military AKA Pathetic wizbang commentator of the day.

"It isn't automatic. If it was, the nine-year-old would be ex-communicated too. There are other punishments."

Perhaps you should have read Canon Law 1323:

"Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:

1ƒ has not completed the sixteenth year of age;"

Retired Military has been expressing my thoughts much more eloquently than I could have. Bill, you need to deal with this anger, it's not healthy. And I don't say that in a snarky or sarcastic way. Consider the effect this anger is having on your dear wife.

Pathetic wizbang commentator of the day

Wow! How do I get to be one of those?

Wow, we're going to have a pathetic Wizbang poster of the day now?

Like Obama and his man Gibbs, Bill, you do have the power of the bully pulpit that Kevin has given you.

One ought to practice a bit of wisdom though when using that bully pulpit. Attacking Rush Limbaugh, for example, was a big mistake.

So is attacking the readers and posters of Wizbang.

People have differing opinions. If they are going against the rules of Wizbang, feel free to get Kevin to ban them.

But this?

You might want to reconsider your priorities.

Bill
From your atricle

"An influential prelate said Brazilian doctors didn't deserve excommunication for aborting the twin fetuses of a 9-year-old child who was allegedly raped by her stepfather because the doctors were saving her life.
The statement by Archbishop Rino Fisichella in the Vatican newspaper Sunday was highly unusual because church law mandates automatic excommunication for abortion. Fisichella, who heads the Vatican's Pontifical Academy for Life, also upheld the church's ban on abortion and any implications of his criticism of excommunicating the doctors and the girl's mother weren't clear
"
and farther down

"The secretary general of the bishops conference, Dimas Lara Barbosa, said that the prelate "at no time excommunicated anyone."

"

Which at best is somewhat confusing.

First you have an archbishop saying they didnt deserver excommunication. Why would have he say that unless it was being considered or already done?

2nd you have the conference saying that the excommunication didnt happen.

3rd the article explicity states that

"church law mandates automatic excommunication for abortion"

As I stated above.

a. The Church owes its flock an answer on this matter.

b. I believe you owe Teflon an apology.

Yup I think this about does it. Wizbang is history. I wish I could choose to ignore Bill's rambling and vitriol, but its really getting to be too much. I was never very into Bill's writing in general, but it was always coherent and well thought out. This kind of stuff is child's play. Seriously calling out someone? What are we on the playground in middle school? Are we going to all go out to the monkey bars and watch you beat each other up. I havent been reading anything by Teflon, I have no idea where he stands ideologically but this is ridiculous. We have people posting for weeks about how stupid the Obama administration is for lowering the office of President to calling out its detractors and here is the same thing going on.

Im not going to pretend that I know what you are going through. Ive lost people close to me before, but never a son. So I wont front on that. But your best course of action is to sek help. You clearly arent dealing with this loss in a healthy way. Seriously seek help. You are quickly becoming the school yard bully. The difference is that we are all grown up and we arent scared of you. Worse yet, we can simply choose to ignore you by not coming here. Maybe thats what you want. To alienate everyone and have Kevin revoke your posting status, I dont know. But you had better figure out how to deal with this. Because this is a very bad road you are on.