« Ted Stevens Charges Dismissed, Federal Judge Orders Criminal Probe Of Prosecutors | Main | Now He Praises the Effort in Iraq -- Isn't That Special? »

Attacking the Tea Party Movement

In my column at Townhall today I look at the attacks many on the left are making on the Tea Party Movement.

The latest attack from the left is not aimed at the Republican party or Michael Steele or Rush Limbaugh, but at Democrat, Republican and Independent Americans across the country who have dared to organize "tea parties" to oppose rising taxes, more government control over private enterprise and less individual liberty.

The Tea Party Movement has caught fire and spread from one end of the country to the other. It has captured the imagination of the conservative grassroots and has taken hold. So far the reaction from the national media has been to downplay or ignore the tea party rallies. Reaction from many on the left most recently is to ridicule and openly attack tea party participants.

According to Michelle Malkin, "Bob Beckel appeared on Fox News this morning to sneer at the nationwide event. He derided tax revolters in Montana, joking that 'It was a good thing it wasn't a vodka party, because I guarantee you they all had guns.'Bigoted Beltway jerk. Beckel also claimed the Tea Parties were 'nothing new' and recycled the debunked Playboy website report (deleted from the site) spreading false and illogical rumors that the grass-roots movement is directed from the GOP, national tax groups, and CNBC."


Melissa Clothier has a related blog post regarding "projection."

Update: At first I thought this was a joke, but it appears to be for real.

PA ACORN is hiring an organizer to recruit & mobilize low and moderate income people to win on a variety of issue based legislative campaigns, including passing health care reform, stopping foreclosures, and increasing resources for local schools. The organizer will also be responsible for working with grassroot leaders to identify local issues for local campaigns.

The organizer would work out of the Pennsylvania ACORN office in Philadelphia with daily travel to specific communities in targeted legislative districts, including Norristown, Upper Darby, & Chester City.

Applicants must be able to demonstrate a commitment to social justice issues, strong work ethic, a commitment to indigenous grassroot leadership, and the ability to work both independently & as part of a team. Previous organizing experience, Spanish, and knowledge of voter databases is also helpful but not required. Starting salary is commensurate with experience and organizer must have valid drivers license and reliable vehicle.

The joke is that this is how liberals staff their protests. I got an email saying Neil Cavuto had a report today about ACORN and others planning to infiltrate the tea parties by carrying racist signs to make the tea party protestors appear racist. And it looks like your tax dollars might be paying for it. Here is the obvious question: If the tea parties are nothing for liberals to worry about, and they are lame, etc., as our lefty commenters here seem to think, then why do those on the left need to crash them and try to make them look like something they aren't? Why is it that so many activists on the left have to be paid to do it? The same question goes for the "community work" done by Americorps "volunteers."


TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
/cgi-bin/mt-tb.cgi/35221.

Comments (105)

Aww, are the mean, mean lib... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Aww, are the mean, mean liberals making fun of you tea-partiers? It must be so horrible for you.

Get a job, hippies.

Michelle Malkin is a... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:


Michelle Malkin is also claiming that ACORN members are going to try and infiltrate the Tea Parties.

So, if you're going to a Tea Party, please be wary of the other attendees.

Maybe you should have read ... (Below threshold)

Maybe you should have read the entire column before commenting Mantis. In the column I write about how those on the left should be trying to understand why thousands of people across the country, who have never protested before, are showing up at these rallies. Instead they are trying to downplay them and ridicule them. The best thing the left can do for conservatives is keep attacking the movement. So keep it up, Mantis. Keep underestimating the mood of the country. By doing so you help Republicans in 2010 and goodness knows we can use all the help we can get.

In the column I write ab... (Below threshold)
mantis:

In the column I write about how those on the left should be trying to understand why thousands of people across the country, who have never protested before, are showing up at these rallies.

I did read your whole column, but I think I will follow your example, instead of your advice, and point and laugh at them instead. Or did you try to understand why millions of people across the country, who had never protested before, showed up to stop the Iraq war from happening. Oh, you didn't? Well, I'm just shocked!

Oh, by the way, we do understand why they are doing it. Their radios told them to.

Lorie: I agree that it is w... (Below threshold)

Lorie: I agree that it is wrong for the left to attack the tea partiers, but only because these parties will have no meaningful impact on either Obama or the 2010 elections... and as such, the left is wasting time on nothing of significance. Yes, I know we haven't seen the likes of this before, and I know that these people are really upset(and justifiably so).. but it is naive to think that any of this is going to deter the liberals (you don't think Obama is thinking he's going to have to dial back his agenda because of this, do you?)... just as it is naive to think that these parties are going to give the GOP the edge next year in getting the votes of the mushy middle (who dismiss these protests the same way they dismiss pretty much every political protest as a bunch of background static).

Keep underestimating the... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Keep underestimating the mood of the country.

I'm well aware of the country's mood, thank you.

Millions showed up to stop ... (Below threshold)
914:

Millions showed up to stop the Iraq war? Unfortunately for You, none of these fantasy millions represented enough signifigance to sway the senate/house or congress from signing on to it for 8 years.

Millions showed up to st... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Millions showed up to stop the Iraq war? Unfortunately for You, none of these fantasy millions represented enough signifigance to sway the senate/house or congress from signing on to it for 8 years.

But the voices of thousands of tea partiers are going to change everything!

That is a strange link to c... (Below threshold)

That is a strange link to cite in relation to your comment Mantis. Here is the entire text of the blog post you linked:

"Read the whole list of the "top 11 things that anti-war protesters would have said at the Normandy Invasion on D-Day (had there been anti-war protesters at Normandy)." My favorites are #1, 2 and 7. Link via The Corner. "

Mantis, the anti-war protesters were hoping we would lose the war. Some even openly urged the troops to shoot their officers. I can never in a million years understand that no matter how hard I try. Maybe you could never in a million years understand why those in the tea party movement are against higher taxes, bailouts and government control over the private sector. It really is a conservative thing and maybe you just don't get it.

Please keep underestimating the movement. That is the best thing you can do to help conservatives. But I have never seen anything like it in all the years I have followed politics and that is about thirty years. I am used to seeing those on the left pull up with buses full of rent-a-demonstrators. I am not used to seeing conservative individuals moved to turn out for protests in the thousands.

Tea Party gear can be found... (Below threshold)
superblueflag:

Tea Party gear can be found at shirts4freedom.com

Mantis, the anti-war pro... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Mantis, the anti-war protesters were hoping we would lose the war.

Thank you for proving my point.

I can never in a million years understand that no matter how hard I try.

I was on the streets on March 15, 2003. It's the only protest I have ever participated in. I met people from all walks of life. I met working professionals and grandmothers, middle class and lower, parents with families. I talked with several military family members. We were all there to stop an unjustified and unnecessary war we thought would harm our country. I never heard a single bad word about the troops. I know you can't fathom that is true, so you have to believe a fantasy in which anyone who opposes a war hates the military and wishes them all dead.

It really is a conservative thing and maybe you just don't get it.

I went to the Chicago tea party a few weeks back. I get it. Those people were out of their minds, and most were following orders from talk radio.

Please keep underestimating the movement. That is the best thing you can do to help conservatives.

I'm not underestimating them. I'm right on target. I know these people well.

But I have never seen anything like it in all the years I have followed politics and that is about thirty years.

Somehow you have missed 30 years of far-larger liberal protest movements. Movements that almost never had any effect whatsoever. It doesn't work, but it sure is amusing. Good luck with it.

Oh, and guess what? Organizing and providing transportation (buses) for protesters is a very good way to get more people to your event. That's why liberals do it. It makes your protests more impressive, not less. They still don't work at achieving your goals (wait, do you guys even have goals?), but they are more impressive.

Lorie-with-an-E,Go... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Lorie-with-an-E,

Good news, bad news:

Good news: the Tulsa Tea Party will be held in an optimal location, Lafortune Park. It's in a strong Republican section of town and one of the few areas with built-in foot traffic.
Hell, it's on a public golf course and jogging trail, so the numbers should be (had BETTER BE) high. An official attendence of 7500 should be a safe target number. The potential is much higher. Report to Mothership, over.

Bad news (as predicted by Me!):

Poignant phone call to Glen Beck HQ in NYC_

--Lady caller [nearly sobbing]: "Glen, my friends and I in the Tea Bag Club are of two minds about what you are communicating. I say that Glen is working to establish a third party; my friend says Glen is working to change the Republican Party from within. Which is it????"

--Glen Beck: "Neither.".......

...[mumble, mumble]...

"...LOOK! I started the 9/12 Club, NOT the Tea Bag Club!....

"....though I am giving the keynote address at the Tea Bag Club."

Conclusion: beware of hungry hippos for tea bags. The meme they eat might be your own.


Lorie, go lie on a beach so... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Lorie, go lie on a beach somewhere for a week and recharge your batteries. Once you start comparing World War II to the second Iraqi adventure, you know you're running on fumes.

I usually don't go in for p... (Below threshold)
mag:

I usually don't go in for protest, I wonder what good they do. However, I am sick and tired of paying high taxes. In Connecticut, when they put in the state income tax, thousands of us went down to the capitol and protested and the politicans literally laughed at us and went ahead and did what they wanted. I agree we have to paid taxes to maintain our military, roads, helping people who really need it, etc. but I really object to foreign aid, welfare queens, corporation bail-outs, pork projects, handing out other's wealth.
My thing is the more more money the government takes, the more they will waste. If they took every penny for all of us...there still would be a deficit and tons more waste.

Mag -The more they... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Mag -

The more they take, the more they feel they can spend. The more they spend, the more they want to take.

And it's laughable when people start protesting that too much is being grabbed?

Oh, wow, Obama gave me $10 back in my paycheck! Woohoo! I guess I'm just supposed to ignore the trillions in deficit spending being set up, and the trillions more that'll be added with health care and be happy with my $10!

Actually the anti war movem... (Below threshold)
LiberalNitemare:

Actually the anti war movement should identify well with the tea party crowd.

For 8 yrs, while the antiwar types protested thier brains out, they couldnt convince members of the democratic party to do anything but make noise about the war. Oh sure they investigated and blustered, but you couldnt find a democratic member of congress that would actually vote on the record to stop the war.

And now we have a similar situation with taxation.

mantis - I'm well aware of ... (Below threshold)
marc:

mantis - I'm well aware of the country's mood, thank you."

Well then then you are aware of this quoted excerpt from your link and as per the NYT poll: "Thirty-nine percent of respondents in the Times poll think the country is going in the right direction and 53 percent say the wrong direction, a substantial improvement from January,...."

While it's true there's been some improvement it certainly arguable as to why?

Given when the poll was taken it could, I repeat for possible cranial penetration, it could be a result of the recent up-turn in the stock market.

A dubious reason at best.

It's your choice to crow about it of course, but trumpeting a poll, one of many, that shows a decided majority of the country thinks it is on the "wrong track" isn't the most tenable position to take.

mantis - "We were all t... (Below threshold)
marc:

mantis - "We were all there to stop an unjustified and unnecessary war we thought would harm our country. I never heard a single bad word about the troops. I know you can't fathom that is true, so you have to believe a fantasy in which anyone who opposes a war hates the military and wishes them all dead."

Congrats for exercising your right to protest.

But I must say, 1) you must have been in a protest that was the exception rather than the rule and 2) you're completely oblivious to the hundreds of anti-war protests that weren't as civil as the one you claim to have attended.

Where there's smoke, there'... (Below threshold)
TOhio:

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

The Tea Parties are important and it is important that all of us attend and get as many of our friends to go. Why? Here are some of the benefits that I see:

1. It will be a chance to get out with other like-minded people who are disgusted, too. The media wants us to believe that everyone loves Obama and support all that he is doing. This is a lie. The Tea Parties will show this for the lie that it is.

2. Local politicians will definitely take notice. Congressmen and Senators for the areas where the parties are being held, will pay attention because these people are voters. Democrats will be scared. Republicans will become more embolden. They need to know that the unrest is real and strong.

3. It will be nice for Obama to see that people are protesting him. (And Pelosi, Reid, et al). I think that Obama has a personality where he needs and wants to be loved and admired by everyone. The Tea Parties will be a rude awakening for him that he isn't the hot stuff that his sycophants have been telling him that he is. Let's face it, these people aren't used to being protested against and it's time.

4. The Tea Parties are just the start. At my local tea party they are going to have sign-up information for local grassroots groups. Thus, they will help with further organizing everyone.

Thus, this event is very important and we all need to go.

So Bob guarantees "they all... (Below threshold)
OLDPUPPYMAX:

So Bob guarantees "they all had guns." Well when the time comes--and it looks like it won't be long now--we'll be fighting for your rights too. Unfortunately.

The libs know they could be... (Below threshold)

The libs know they could be in some trouble if this movement continues to grow as fast as it is growing.
http://www.rightklik.net/

The Tea-Parties-are-... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:


The Tea-Parties-are-under-attack-thing is coming from all the usual Right Wing noise outlets. Clearly, organizers are just trying to drum up support because no one cares one way or the other about 'em.

For the first time this nat... (Below threshold)
CZ:

For the first time this nation is about to see how pissed off conservatives behave.

They will find us to be orderly, polite, clean, dressed in respectable normal clothes, acting like everyday citizens and being polite to law enforcement.

Any paid acorn nuts who show up to a tea party protest will stick out like Pelosi's eyes. And if one hassles me or acts like an asshole in order to discredit the event I will personally knock their teeth out on the spot. NO questions asked.

As I said, for the first time this nation is about to see how pissed off conservatives behave.

Let' make some history of our own.

If the tea parties are n... (Below threshold)
mantis:

If the tea parties are nothing for liberals to worry about, and they are lame, etc., as our lefty commenters here seem to think, then why do those on the left need to crash them and try to make them look like something they aren't?

They don't, and they won't. You are paranoid and will believe anything. But I'm sure Neil Cavuto's sources are totally reliable, of course.

Only in the deranged mind o... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Only in the deranged mind of a Malkin or a Limbaugh would a deafening silence--puncuated by the odd burst of derisive laughter--from the powers-that-be be indicative of a groundswell of grassroots support for this incoherent "movement".

Oh, and I loved this bit from OLDPUPPYMAX: So Bob guarantees "they all had guns." Well when the time comes--and it looks like it won't be long now--we'll be fighting for your rights too. Unfortunately.

Exactly when will conservatarian want-wits accept that 1) Red Dawn sucked, and 2) barring a zombie infestation, there will probably never be a reason to mobilize a militia in the U.S. ever again?

If you're prepared to take up arms against the government--which, by the way, would defend itself with the military--because you think your taxes are too high, then you probably shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm.

Haha! The best part will b... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Haha! The best part will be the shredding of 1040s. The Feds and their nice, neat crook forms will get the attention they deserve.

You guys sound absolutely s... (Below threshold)

You guys sound absolutely scared to death. Calm down. If you guys really believe what you say there is nothing to fear. If you are right, no one will show up for the tea parties -- they probably won't get any media coverage even if anyone does show up. Even if thousands do show up, as is expected, and if the media decides they have no choice but to cover them, never fear. Those on the left will call the tea party-goers a bunch of bitter Americans clinging to their guns and religion. That worked great for you all in 2008, so you really should not sound so concerned.

so you really should not... (Below threshold)
mantis:

so you really should not sound so concerned.

The word is amused, Lorie. Dirty hippies.

I see zero interest in any ... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

I see zero interest in any sort of counter protest(s) anywhere.

The Tea Parties are fizzling out and organizers are already preparing their excuses: no MSM support and saboteurs.

But really no one cares.

I find it highly amusing th... (Below threshold)
Tim:

I find it highly amusing that an unwashed leftist would be calling other people hippies. I also thought it was quite funny that Acorn needs to pay 'volunteers', and that they must be able to demonstrate a 'strong work ethic'. If they had that, they wouldn't be available to be bussed around the country 'protesting'. At least we're making sacrifices by taking time off from our jobs. And sorry, Mantis, waiting around for your welfare check and medicinal marijuana is not considered a job. Well, not yet. But Teh Messiah still has 3 3/4 years to get us there.

12 out of 29 posts by troll... (Below threshold)
914:

12 out of 29 posts by trollish nightmares...But nah...No one cares.!!


Liars

mantis, actually I think th... (Below threshold)

mantis, actually I think the word is "jealous."

Right now the Left would kill to have literally thousands of people show up at their rallies, without a significant portion of them either being organized "volunteers" bused in by ACORN or Organizing For America, or part of a hyped-up crowd drawn by a cult figure.

I have been a part of the Oklahoma City Tea Party from the very beginning, and I can vouch for the fact that -- unlike ACORN and Organizing For America -- it is a true grassroots effort with no political ties and no corporate or political support. Sorry trolls.

The organizers of our April 15 rally, Diane and Alan, have set up some simple guidelines for the rally: only official petitions from the group are allowed, and no literature from other groups will be given out. Also, no merchandise will be sold. And there will be no politicians or political party representatives as official speakers. This should keep the influence of pests and infiltrators at a minimum, if any decide to show up.

CZ - "And if one hassle... (Below threshold)
marc:

CZ - "And if one hassles me or acts like an asshole in order to discredit the event I will personally knock their teeth out on the spot. NO questions asked

If that occurs... welcome to "Stardom."

"Stardom" meaning being the poster child for every left, and far left leaning blog and MSM columnist as an "example" of the "far right."

They won't ask any questions either.

mantis - "They don't, a... (Below threshold)
marc:

mantis - "They don't, and they won't. You are paranoid and will believe anything. But I'm sure Neil Cavuto's sources are totally reliable, of course."

That's possible, but it begs the question; Where are your reliable sources stating the opposite?

What reliable pundit or MSM reporter has made a credible claim it's all a sham?

mantis, actually I think... (Below threshold)
mantis:

mantis, actually I think the word is "jealous."

Good one. Tell another.

Right now the Left would kill to have literally thousands of people show up at their rallies

Happens all the time. Guess what? The eeevil liberal emm-ess-emm ignores them too.

without a significant portion of them either being organized "volunteers" bused in by ACORN or Organizing For America, or part of a hyped-up crowd drawn by a cult figure.

Yeah, I'm sure the left is real sad that their protests are bigger and better organized than the tea parties.

it is a true grassroots effort with no political ties and no corporate or political support.

So what? There is a big grassroots effort here in Chicago opposing the Olympic games. They won't succeed in any way, and the media largely ignores them. Hell, we've got protests against potholes happening here. We've had protests for and against foie gras for crying out loud. Protests are easy. There are always a few dozen or even hundreds of people available to stand around and yell about almost any issue. That does not make it a revolution. Nobody's jealous of the tea parties.

The organizers of our April 15 rally, Diane and Alan, have set up some simple guidelines for the rally: only official petitions from the group are allowed, and no literature from other groups will be given out. Also, no merchandise will be sold. And there will be no politicians or political party representatives as official speakers. This should keep the influence of pests and infiltrators at a minimum, if any decide to show up.

And you'll surely be patting yourselves on the back afterwards at having successfully thwarted the non-existent "infiltrators."

Where are your reliable ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Where are your reliable sources stating the opposite?

My reliable sources saying that there's not a super-secret tea party infiltration plan? Sorry, don't have any of those. I'm sure that will be considered clear cut evidence that the infiltrators are gearing up as we speak.

What reliable pundit or MSM reporter has made a credible claim it's all a sham?

What reporter has contradicted the paranoid "reports" that Cavuto gets? None, that I know of. I'm sure they're beating the streets on that one, though.

mantis - "Yeah, I'm sur... (Below threshold)
marc:

mantis - "Yeah, I'm sure the left is real sad that their protests are bigger and better organized than the tea parties."

And you know this how, the April 15th events haven't happened as yet?

Powers of Kreskin I would guess, "even now I know what you're thinking."

mantis - "What reporter... (Below threshold)
marc:

mantis - "What reporter has contradicted the paranoid "reports" that Cavuto gets? None, that I know of. I'm sure they're beating the streets on that one, though."

Put another way, you have no answer because you're tilting at windmills, not to mention full of shit.

A gentile suggestion, go join with lee ward over at Blue, he needs all the asshatted support he can muster on this very issue.

And you know this how, t... (Below threshold)
mantis:

And you know this how, the April 15th events haven't happened as yet?

Well gee, perhaps I was speaking generally, as I was responding to a comment about protests that have been happening, not those yet to happen. I know reading is hard, but you should give it a little more effort.

Put another way, you have no answer because you're tilting at windmills, not to mention full of shit.

You're right, the fact that I don't have proof of a negative against Cavuto's "reports" from unnamed sources means that I'm full of shit.

A gentile suggestion, go join with lee ward over at Blue, he needs all the asshatted support he can muster on this very issue.

I've been about as much help to that idiot as I have to the conservatives on this site. Plus, he banned me.

"Im sure the left is rea... (Below threshold)
%%%%%%%%%%:

"Im sure the left is real sad that their protests are fake and concocted by corrupt politicians."

Exactly

"Right now the left would kill to have thousands of protesters show up at their rallys"

Not going to happen but..

They always have BUSH to blame for the failures of Obama the boy blunder.

BDS..ignorance is bliss.

If you're prepared... (Below threshold)
If you're prepared to take up arms against the government--which, by the way, would defend itself with the military--because you think your taxes are too high, then you probably shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm.

Hyper, you do know that the main cause of the American colonists taking up arms aginst the British rulers was the imposition of a series intolerable taxes, don't you?

I can well imagine that you said in the quote is what the British probably thought about their American cousins, particularly after the battles of Lexington and Concord that started the American Revolution.

So yeah, we Americans have a tradition of getting testy about taxation. It's been mostly dormant during the last few decades, but it looks like it's flaring up again.

"You're right, the fact... (Below threshold)
marc:

"You're right, the fact that I don't have proof of a negative against Cavuto's "reports" from unnamed sources means that I'm full of shit."

A moment of truth brought to us by mantis.

A moment of stupidity broug... (Below threshold)
mantis:

A moment of stupidity brought to us by marc.

OregonMuse, I know that. Ba... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

OregonMuse, I know that. Back then, people used to solve problems with firearms, and they were sometimes heroes for doing so--even today we consider them to be so. However, when someone tries to make a political point with a weapon in a civilized society today, they're put in jail or executed, depending where they live, who they shot, and why they shot them. I don't doubt that a few awful people--Stormfronters, Freepers, people who read Little Green Footballs--would take up arms under certain circumstances. And I hope to god that when the police are forced to kill people like that in a violent stand-off, that you feel sympathy for any police or military who are killed, and utter disdain for the pieces of shit who kill them.

marc: if Keith Olbermann said that Dick Cheney was working on a virus to give AIDS to every black baby, by your own imbecilic logic, Keith Olbermann would be right until you proved him wrong. That's what follows from your ignorant, infantile attempt at making someone much smarter than you look stupid. Fail, marc. Crash, burn, repeat.

Please don't feed the troll... (Below threshold)
essgee:

Please don't feed the trolls. They are quite capable of out-dirty-tricking us and out-nastying us any day of the week. Let's keep our focus and realize they are attacking us just because they are so afraid of us.

My wife and I are going to ... (Below threshold)

My wife and I are going to be at the Sacramento Tea Party (with Neil Cavuto!...ok, not WITH Neil...but at that Tea Party)

I fully expect some 5th Column ACORNs and other Moonbats to try and grab camera time.

Funny thing is that Moonbats stand out like a sore thumb at Conservative rallies! We went to the Carson rally for Sarah Palin during the campaign...and the Moonbats were so OBVIOUS it was almost funny! They literally do NOT know how to act like civilized folks!

I think we'll keep 'em under control! :)

The only people that would ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

The only people that would be opposed to a tax revolt are those who still believe all income tax is legal. It's been "done that way" for so long, that Americans have been conditioned to believe its legal and ethical.

Others choose to fight back with quiet non-compliance to such tyranny, which is perfectly fine. Each has their own way of breaking the chains and shattering the facade of what it means to be a "Good American".

Tea Party gear can be found... (Below threshold)
superblueflag:

Tea Party gear can be found at .shirts4freedom.com

You are of course correct <... (Below threshold)
91444:

You are of course correct essgee as is evident by the rabid overblown trollhazing jizzfest brought on by this post.

I know that. Back ... (Below threshold)
I know that. Back then, people used to solve problems with firearms, and they were sometimes heroes for doing so--even today we consider them to be so. However, when someone tries to make a political point with a weapon in a civilized society today, they're put in jail or executed, depending where they live, who they shot, and why they shot them.

So you're saying that the state is ALWAYS right and that there can never be ANY VALID REASON to take up arms against it to defend your life, liberty, or property? That the state can NEVER, EVER be corrupt enough that such a recourse finally becomes necessary? That's seriously your argument?

And I hope to god that when the police are forced to kill people like that in a violent stand-off, that you feel sympathy for any police or military who are killed, and utter disdain for the pieces of shit who kill them.

That actually depends on the circumstances. 99% of the time, you'd probably be right. It's that other 1%, though, that gives me pause. I lack that absolute faith in government that you apparently possess.

It's less & less fun every ... (Below threshold)
Boots:

It's less & less fun every day to have to wade through the troll comments to read what the thinking commentators have to say. Sadly, this is why more blogs all the time are eliminating comments altogether.

People who believe in high ... (Below threshold)
mag:

People who believe in high taxes and government control on everything are: EVIOUS OF OTHERS, LAZY-wants the gov't to do everything to wiping their noses and other parts, WHY WORK HARD IF THE GOV'T WILL GIVE YOU EVERYTHING, IT FUN TO TAKE FROM OTHERS (see evious about).

It is not that we object to paying some taxes, that is fine, but when it is over the top and punishes people who work for it, well, then that's the time to protest and revolve.

No, OregonMuse. The state c... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

No, OregonMuse. The state can be and often is wrong. However, civilized minds know that resorting to violence over income tax levels--which are still incredibly low compared to other civilized western democracies--is a 19th century way of doing things. If the state were to, say, ban all public expression, outlaw romantic love, and force people into sexual relationships for the sole purpose of improving the gene pool, then that would be the sort of thing worth fighting and dying for. But when the wealthiest 2% face a modest tax increase, and people start barking about armed revolution, it makes me wonder what sort of crazy pills doctors are prescribing these days.

mag: if you make under $250,000/year, your taxes are actually going to decrease. So relax. Serenity Now!

Tea Party Shopping List... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

Tea Party Shopping List

Tea bags (unused) √
Comfortable shoes √
Bottled water √
Acme Jet Powered Roller Skates √
Acme Instant Tornado Pills √
Pepper spray √

I feel teh stupid for readi... (Below threshold)
Kat:

I feel teh stupid for reading anything mantis posts. S/He reminds me of the dweeb that cried for mommy when somebody took away his Barbie doll.

H,I don't trust th... (Below threshold)
mag:

H,

I don't trust the gov't to set a limit to what they will tax.
They start off with 250K and then it goes way, way down.

What is with people like you whould like paying high taxes. You must also like getting beat up from time to time.

mantis from atlantis. I wo... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

mantis from atlantis. I wonder why anyone responds to the remarks make by one who indentifies themselves as an insect. Reading the comments like mantis' will lower ones intellect. Been that way for years. If you, on bug one, do not think tea parties will be large, effective or relevant, conceal your self and observe. Hide and watch. April 15th will be a day to remember. Wonder what we have in store for you doubters July 4th. Lori, please get some bug spray for this site. It is infested with mantis.

Mantis says that pr... (Below threshold)
doubled:


Mantis says that protests generally get no where, and that is mostly true as most protests are just venting of emotional anger (not a bad thing , better than blowing up a bus or restaurant, the favored method of certain ideologies). So it is no suprise to me that conservative protests are almost unheard of, but one in particular should be remembered because it DID work and was completely justified. During the 2000 presidential recount the Dem's tried to move the process of 'diving' voter intent (creating votes) to an upstairs room blocking access to the press/ citzens (even though Florida sunshine laws prohibit such a manuever). A random, spontaneous group of concerned citzens charged up to the door of the room and demanded access. They were able to stop the shenannigans that surely would have followed had the Dem's been able to 'count' the votes with no pesky hoi polloi to disrupt their ambitions. By the way Joe Lieberman famously called this protest a riot. What a joke liberals have become to their legacy of classical liberalism , power to the indidvidual, NOT to divided up groups to be pitted against each other in a gorged envy filled anger. Greed isn't the only vice that needs to be brought under control in this world.

mantis explains why the tea... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

mantis explains why the tea partiers are a bunch of whiny-ass titty-babies, many of whom are probably in need of employment, and Zelsdorf Trogdor the Internet Dragon Slayer (Level 67 Douche Paladin) and Kat go apoplectic. He's not complaining or whining about you, Kat: he's laughing at you.

mag: "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.. I don't love paying taxes, but I hate it much less than I hate crumbling infrastructure; underfunded hospitals and schools; embarrassingly high poverty, crime, and infant mortality rates; and underpaid civil servants. Developed democracies with higher tax rates than the United States tend to do better on these measures, and you can't write that off as coincidence.

#54 Tea Party Shopping Lis... (Below threshold)
914:

#54 Tea Party Shopping List

Adrian forgot a few things.

1. Deodorant for all the dirty Mike Stivics like Himself that may show up.

2. Raid bug spray for all the cooties likely to arrive as well.

During the 2000 presiden... (Below threshold)
mantis:

During the 2000 presidential recount the Dem's tried to move the process of 'diving' voter intent (creating votes) to an upstairs room blocking access to the press/ citzens (even though Florida sunshine laws prohibit such a manuever). A random, spontaneous group of concerned citzens charged up to the door of the room and demanded access.

You mean the Brooks Brothers Riot? Yeah, that was not a "random, spontaneous group," but rather a team of Republican congressional staffers directed by John Sweeney to subvert democracy. I'm sure you believe it was just concerned citizens who were trying to stop a unjust act, but it was actually a bunch of Republican operatives trying to stop the counting of votes.

Nice try, though.

However, civilized... (Below threshold)
However, civilized minds know that resorting to violence over income tax levels--which are still incredibly low compared to other civilized western democracies--is a 19th century way of doing things.

I'm not buying any of this spin on American tax levels and who is supposedly going to be paying them, but I will say this:

I will never advocate armed insurrection because of money. But I do know that the men who founded my country did so, and for an astoundingly small 3% (!) tax. This never ceases to amaze me. And considering the character and intellect of these men, who they were and what they wrote, it would be sheer arrogant folly to suggest they did not possess "civilized minds". On the contrary, I would argue that in many ways, their ideas on how to organize society are far superior to the European-style nanny-state progressivism that is prevalent today.

So getting cantankerous about taxes is an American tradition. You may not like it, you may not understand it, but there it is. This is where the Tea Party protesters come from. And your disdain, of course, is something they wear with pride.

914, 60:I included... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

914, 60:

I included Pepper spray on my list!

I'll be the one wearing jeans or khakis, tennis shoes, and a jacket or sweatshirt. I may or may not carry a sign and may or may not have a tea bag with me.

Spray first, ask questions later.

Mantis: re 2000 e... (Below threshold)
doubled:

Mantis: re 2000 election. I have no knowledge of who organized the protest in Florida, nor do I care. Does working for a campaign cause a denial of a citizen's right to protest?

But what was going on was not a counting of votes , that had been done THREE times already , showing Bush to have a lead EACH time. This was when Gore had the Florida Supreme court order a recount (in 4 heavily democrat counties only, funny, Gore must have felt only their votes were important enough to bother 'finding' , by the way that hubris is one of the reasons the U.S. supreme court shut down the charade, the unequal treatment of votes and voters).

What the 3 person committee was doing was 'diving' voter intent on the ballots that DIDN'T register a valid/proper vote for whatever reason. I defy anyone to look at a piece of paper and devine TRUE voter intent, it is impossible. But didn't stop the Dem's and their media buddies from teying to create votes to overturn the result they didn't like. Kinda like Gregoire was able to pull off in Washington state Governor race. The results were disputed and recounted and 'devined until Gregoire had the lead ,and ONLY THEN was the procees allowed to end and declare a winner.

OregonMuse, you seem to for... (Below threshold)
mantis:

OregonMuse, you seem to forget the grievance surrounding the Tea Act and other taxes imposed by Great Britain. The problem was not taxes, but taxation without representation.

If today's tea partiers truly believe that the wealthiest people in the country are not being represented and their complaints somehow parallel those of the Sons of Liberty, they are delusional. They aren't following some grand American tradition, but are merely partisans looking for an outlet for their anger over losing elections. That's fine, and all, but let's not pretend it's something it isn't.

doubledNicely expl... (Below threshold)
914:

doubled

Nicely explained. Kind of an imitation of the Norm Coleman/ Al Franken debacle going on here in very liberal to the red degree MN.

If You cant win legitimately keep recounting and finding mystery ballots or throwing out and disqualifying ones ( kinda like military absentee ballots in 2000 )you do not like. Yes, there is no doubt the leftys try to "divine" voter intent when it suits their agenda.

I have no knowledge of w... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I have no knowledge of who organized the protest in Florida, nor do I care.

So you admit you didn't know what you were talking about when you called them, "A random, spontaneous group of concerned citzens." Good.

Does working for a campaign cause a denial of a citizen's right to protest?

No, and no one is saying otherwise.

But what was going on was not a counting of votes , that had been done THREE times already , showing Bush to have a lead EACH time.

Wrong. The Miami-Dade votes had yet to be hand-counted. Do you just make stuff up when you write these comments, or do you just believe crank emails you receive from wingnuts and repeat their lies?

This was when Gore had the Florida Supreme court order a recount (in 4 heavily democrat counties only, funny, Gore must have felt only their votes were important enough to bother 'finding' , by the way that hubris is one of the reasons the U.S. supreme court shut down the charade, the unequal treatment of votes and voters).

No, it was not one of the reasons. The reasons were lack of uniformity in recount standards imposed by the Florida Supreme Court, and that no constitutional recount could be finished by the Florida deadline.

What the 3 person committee was doing was 'diving' voter intent on the ballots that DIDN'T register a valid/proper vote for whatever reason.

They were reviewing contested ballots that were rejected by the machines due (largely) to voter errors and undervotes, which is part of a recount. It happens in most close recounts, and furthermore was ordered by the Florida Supreme Court.

I defy anyone to look at a piece of paper and devine TRUE voter intent, it is impossible.

Per county standards, the canvassing board had to go through contested ballots one by one, try to come to an agreement on the voter intent, or to throw the ballot out. How else do you propose to do it?

In the end, a proper recount was never fully performed, contrary to what you may hear from your wingnut sources, which you should really start looking at with a more skeptical eye.

"...and you can't write tha... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"...and you can't write that off as coincidence."

No, but I can write off any comment you come up with as hyperbole without substance. Ever since you admitted to being a globalist, you're comments about anything to do with anything on this blog went right in the socialist tank with you.

mantis asks: Per ... (Below threshold)
doubled:

mantis asks: Per county standards, the canvassing board had to go through contested ballots one by one, try to come to an agreement on the voter intent, or to throw the ballot out. How else do you propose to do it?


I propose to count votes , not voter intent. Votes are how we elect winners, NOT voter intents. If a voter can't create a valid ballot, for whatever reason, it should not count, otherwise the 3 person commision is taking that person's vote for THEMSELVES.

Thought experiment:try to divine the voter intent in these cases :

1. a blank ballot
could be that the voter was going to vote for president after voting for all other rfaces and forgot, maybe didn't want to vote for anyone , impossible to 'divine' which

2. a ballot with vote for both Bush and Gore
could be that the voter wanted to vote for Bush and mistakingly voted for Gore, maybe a confused voter who thought you could vote for 2 canidates , maybe the ballot was tampered with after election night , again impossible to 'divine' true voter intent

3. a ballot marked for mickey mouse
could be that the voter meant Bush/Gore, couild mean they meant to vote for mickey mouse, could be that it was a vote in protest of a lack of good canidates , again imp[ossible to 'divine' intent

I hope by now you see my point of the farce that is 'diving' of voter intent.

I concede my points that you refuted or disagree with (specifically the U.S. supreme decision saying the votes were being treated differently by the different commissions) meant nothing really to my argument against 'diving' voter intent, although it seemed important enough to you to try and discredit the protesters by saying thet were in Republican employ.


"In the end, a proper re... (Below threshold)
914:

"In the end, a proper recount was never fully performed,contrary from what you may have heard from your wingnut sources."

Your BDS betrays you...Thank god for Katherine Harris.

I hope by now you see my... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I hope by now you see my point of the farce that is 'diving' of voter intent.

No, not really, because you don't seem to know what you're talking about (not to mention the fact that you keep calling it "diving," whatever that's supposed to mean).

The canvassing board in Miami-Dade was instructed to hand recount the undervotes. Undervotes are where a voter does not vote for one or more of the contests on the ballot. This can cause machine errors and thus the votes must be counted by hand. Do you really have a problem with that?

Now there are ballots where a voter has voted for all contests, but still produce errors. This can be for a number of reasons, and "voter intent" is a standard by which boards must determine whether or not votes can be counted and for whom. Now different states, and sometimes counties, have different standards for determining voter intent. Florida's were a mess. You seem to be arguing against the entire idea of determining voter intent. A valid argument, but has nothing to do with the 2000 election specifically, and definitely nothing to do with the Brooks Brothers Riot which we were originally talking about. But let's look at your very limited list of examples:

a blank ballot - Would not be counted. End of story.

a ballot with vote for both Bush and Gore - A tough one as people can make a mistake and vote for both, without asking for a new ballot as they should. I agree such votes should not be counted for anyone.

a ballot marked for mickey mouse - write in votes are write in votes. The vote would be counted for Mickey Mouse. If the voter wrote in a vote and voted for one of the named candidates, you have the problem of the second example.

Other voting issues you ignore have to do with overly complicated ballots, failure to fully mark the vote (remember chads?), and others. I hear your argument that no disputed ballots should be counted by boards determining voter intent. I disagree, but I do think voter intent should be determined by a very conservative standard.

although it seemed important enough to you to try and discredit the protesters by saying thet were in Republican employ.

Oh, you mean when I gave you the facts that disputed your story?

OregonMuse: again, that was... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

OregonMuse: again, that was the best way of getting things done in the 18th/19th centuries. I'm not shit-talking the Founding Fathers when I say that armed revolution as a response to tax rates that are perceived to be unjustly high is not the right way to go about doing things these days.

914: Katherine Harris? ELL-OHHHH-ELLLLL!!! Even the batshit-crazy Florida GOP won't touch that kook. But yeah, good to have heroes, isn't it? No matter how creepy.

Hyper,Our founding f... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Hyper,
Our founding fathers did not just jump to their guns. They tried diplomacy. They wrote letters. They published pamphlets. Sought audiences with the king. Spoke to members of parliament.
After these actions failed, then they resorted to arms.

I noticed that Mantis and o... (Below threshold)
Rick Caird:

I noticed that Mantis and others were spinning hard against the tea parties. I can understand his palpable fear. A recent poll just showed that 73% of Republicans, 66% of Independents, and 58% of Democrats are concerned about the projected deficits. The "wrong direction" number is now at 61%. Those numbers will only go up and spells doom for people like Mantis.

I find the left is doing more and more spinning in an attempt to discourage all those not on their side. Not only is that not working, it shows how tenuous the left's hold on power is.

Rick

hyper - "mag: if you ma... (Below threshold)
marc:

hyper - "mag: if you make under $250,000/year, your taxes are actually going to decrease. So relax. Serenity Now!

True, as far as it goes. But you seem to have (purposely?) left out a little tax increase hidden in deductions for charitable contributions that will be drasticlly cut unless saner heads prevail in D.C. (fat chance!). And that's only one of the hidden increases that are coming.

hyper - "I hate crumbling infrastructure; underfunded hospitals and schools; embarrassingly high poverty, crime, and infant mortality rates; and underpaid civil servants. Developed democracies with higher tax rates than the United States tend to do better on these measures, and you can't write that off as coincidence."

You keep flogging that dog, but in the vast majority of cases infrastructure expenditures have been set by the states and used on other things that those states thought were of greater importance, or in worst cases, to grease the palms of those that were/are political contributors.

As for higher tax rates in other "Developed democracies" name one that has consistently had lower unemployment rates and higher productivity and growth rates than the U.S. over the last 4 decades.

mantis - "In the end, a... (Below threshold)
marc:

mantis - "In the end, a proper recount was never fully performed, contrary to what you may hear from your wingnut sources, which you should really start looking at with a more skeptical eye."

That depends on what you mean by "proper." If you mean recounts done by FLA election authorities I'll by it.

On the other hand no less than the Miami Herald, USA Today and Washington Post all recounted that election and laid to waste the dem nutcakes (some that still maintain the same thought process to this very day) contention Bush was "selected" not elected.

He was elected, The Goracle lost and many asshats STILL haven't gotten over it.

That depends on what you... (Below threshold)
mantis:

That depends on what you mean by "proper." If you mean recounts done by FLA election authorities I'll by it.

Well, I meant a full recount under consistent standards.

On the other hand no less than the Miami Herald, USA Today and Washington Post all recounted that election and laid to waste the dem nutcakes (some that still maintain the same thought process to this very day) contention Bush was "selected" not elected.

Yes, I know, but I'm not one of them. I agreed with the court's decision on the recount standards, but disagreed about the deadline, which I think they should have extended to complete the recount. A recount which very likely would have put George W. Bush in office, but would have down so not under a cloud of perceived impropriety. I think it's better when our elected officials take office after a full count of the votes, not an order from a court to stop counting, don't you?

I've been doing other stuff... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

I've been doing other stuff today so I don't have a clue how this thread turned to the Florida recount (I'll have to read all the comments later if I have time), but caught this last one comment from Mantis and about had a coronary. I agree! With Mantis! Kind of, anyway.

"Yes, I know, but I'm not one of them. I agreed with the court's decision on the recount standards, but disagreed about the deadline, which I think they should have extended to complete the recount. A recount which very likely would have put George W. Bush in office, but would have down so not under a cloud of perceived impropriety. I think it's better when our elected officials take office after a full count of the votes, not an order from a court to stop counting, don't you?"

If the court decision mantis referenced is the one by the Florida Supreme Ct. I disagree, because that decision directed recounts only in selected counties that favored Gore, rather than a count of all the votes in the state. I hated the Supreme Ct. decision because I knew it would open the door to conspiracy theorists, etc., but it appeared the only way to stop the unbelievable decision by the Florida Sup. Ct. directing selective recount of certain counties.

I remember following the heck out of the recount because I was home with an infant who had just had several surgeries so I watched a lot of t.v. I remember the recount in Miami-Dade county was underway and that was one of the counties expected to yield many additional votes for Gore. Instead the early results of the recount there were showing Bush picking up votes. Gore's lawyer was asked about that by a reporter and I remember he looked shocked to hear that was the case, but I didn't hear anyone in the media pick up that fact and report it because right about that same time the Sup. Ct. decision came down stopping the recount. I was ticked because it looked like even Gore's slanted selected county recount was going to show Bush the winner and that would have been preferable, but the recount that was underway was ridiculous.

Sorry for the long comment ... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Sorry for the long comment that didn't even make clear what I agreed with Mantis about. I agree that it is better to count all the votes and not to have a cloud over the results.

It looks like Franken is going to steal the election in Minn. I think the only way to remove the cloud there would be to have a new election. Anytime you start counting votes that someone discovered in their car, and votes that election officials discover that are almost all for Franken, which is completely out of line with the percentages Franken got statewide, you are going to have a serious cloud. It could help the GOP in the long run though. First because Franken is likely to embarrass Dems. Second, because voters in Minn. are going to likely be seriously pissed that they got shafted.

If the court decision ma... (Below threshold)
mantis:

If the court decision mantis referenced is the one by the Florida Supreme Ct. I disagree, because that decision directed recounts only in selected counties that favored Gore, rather than a count of all the votes in the state.

No, I was referring to the Bush v. Gore decision which nullified the Florida Supreme Court's decision you reference. The Florida decision was wrong, and a full recount under a universal standard set by the Florida court should have been done in the first place. I just disagreed with the SCOTUS that the Florida deadline of December 12 be upheld, thus ending any vote counting and basically, the election, as the decision came down on...December 12. But in the end, Gore could have pursued it further, as noted by the court (it's a very weird decision, in that they specifically note that it shouldn't be considered precedential, and that Gore could still seek remedy), but he apparently thought that a futile pursuit. Rightly so.

Anytime you start counting votes that someone discovered in their car, and votes that election officials discover that are almost all for Franken, which is completely out of line with the percentages Franken got statewide, you are going to have a serious cloud.

Is that really true? I haven't really followed the MN Senate saga at all. If you're right then I would agree. Maybe not to a new election, but at least to those votes being thrown out. Isn't their some chain of custody rule or something? Wait, I'm on the interwebs. Maybe it knows something!

SCSI: so if Obama says "I h... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

SCSI: so if Obama says "I heard you, now f*ck off," and signs the budget and tax increase on the top 2% of earners despite the tea-tantrums and the letter writing and the phone calls, will people then be justified in murdering police officers in an armed uprising?

marc: you care about high GDP and low unemployment; I care about overall quality of life, which takes those two things into account. So, on any of those measures--used by economists, not just the United Nations and World Health Organization--the United States comes in behind Canada, Japan, every Scandinavian country, Australia, and others. Unemployment is not as important to me as mortality, infant mortality, literacy, and physical safety--four measures on which the United States sucks balls. Worse than Cuba in terms of literacy and infant mortality--don't you find that embarrassing?

Lorie: voters in Minn. are going to likely be seriously pissed that they got shafted. Do you mean Democratic voters? Because if Coleman had gotten his way in the first place they would have been shafted; and now that Franken is winning according to the rules that Coleman (well, Coleman's lawyers) agreed to, they want to change the game. Either way, people in Minnesota need to seriously think about a referendum to revise the way these things work in that state because it's April already and stuff needs to get done in the Senate.

SCSI: didn't take you to be... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

SCSI: didn't take you to be implying that people would thereby be justified in murdering police because of taxes, but simply making the point that even though it was alright to do so centuries ago--after exhausting other avenues of protest, of course--it is not today. And I'm sure you'd agree, as you aren't crazy enough to suggest that any tax hike on the top 2% of earners would justify an armed rebellion in which your fellow citizens on either side of the dispute would be killed.

hyperbolist, ... (Below threshold)
maggie:

hyperbolist,

Your comparing the United States with
Cuba is getting old. You don't mind coming
onto an american blog and posting freely.
Since America sucks so bad, why don't you
not let the door hit you leaving here.
I've had enough of you insulting my country.

Wow. 83 comments on this t... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Wow. 83 comments on this thread and counting. I am telling you guys, these "tea tantrums," as some libs are calling them, are throwing them for a loop. They are not used to seeing conservatives rally and protest. They are especially not used to rank and file, everyday citizens who don't usually get involved in politics going to the trouble to show up in the thousands all over the country. Heck, I am not used to it either. But as it has energized conservatives, it has to have liberals scared beyond comprehension. Maybe thousands won't show up all over the country on April 15, as we expect, and liberals can breathe a sigh of relief, but I am confident that won't be the case. Whether or not we keep it up and the movement has an impact on the 2010 elections remains to be seen, but from what I have seen, I don't think the movement will be waning any time soon.

hyper - "Worse than Cub... (Below threshold)
marc:

hyper - "Worse than Cuba in terms of literacy and infant mortality--don't you find that embarrassing?"

you were already taken to school on that point so quit while your behind.

Hey Lorie,Look at th... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

Hey Lorie,
Look at the comments on this thread at Polipundit. The regulars are openly talking about killing people at Tea Parties:

http://polipundit.com/wp-comments-popup.php?p=20867&c=1#comments

Why shouldn't I compare you... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Why shouldn't I compare your country to Cuba? It's a communist dictatorship. Your country is surely a better place to live than Cuba, so why get all testy? If somebody wants to say that "America is teh awzomest--END OF DISCUSSION", I think I'm entitled to point out where there is room for significant improvement. Saying that Cubans are more literate than Americans--and they are--isn't saying that they're smarter, or that their country is a better place to live. You're being stubbornly dichotomous, maggie, which is a perspective ill-suited for our nuanced world.

marc: not sure what you're referring to, but it isn't facts about reality. (Yes, it's Wikipedia, but the sources therein are the United Nations Development Index and the CIA World Factbook.)

hyperbolist, You mus... (Below threshold)
maggie:

hyperbolist,
You must have trouble understanding straight
forward language. There's nothing nuanced about
the real world, there's a chance some day you're
going to learn this. Maybe the hard way.

First, you shouldn't be rep... (Below threshold)

First, you shouldn't be repeating claims that ACORN etc. is planning to infiltrate TEA parties, unless you have evidence. Do you? I mean real evidence, not so and so saying they heard whatever. I doubt it. Pretending there are outsiders to blame is a tempting convenient excuse if straightforward attendees make trouble.

I'm not sure just what you guys want to protest (after all, the original protests were against taxation w/o representation, and we have representative government now.) The rate levels? To just what level then is no longer worth protesting over? Actually I agree 39.6% top is too high, but that isn't much different in principle or effect from typical Republican offerings like 32-35% which I'll grant is plenty IMHO. But I too have things I'd like to protest about the tax code.

Well, here is what I and a surprising (to most of you) number of Americans would like to protest about taxes: The wretched lower capital gains tax (fraudulently enacted since traded assets aren't start-up capital and don't build business, and no FICA tax on it either so it is already lower to start with), the cap on income subject to FICA, the huge exemption for estate taxes (but I will agree the rate should be well below 55%), the loopholes (many corporations don't pay taxes or even get money from the government to promote overseas operations, etc! For all his faults and weirdness, the refreshingly independent and transpartisan Perot went up against this sort of thing, Godbless him - where is he now?)

Then there's the deductions and child tax credits for dependents: for earners up to around 100k - that means, childless people making 30k are subsidizing the kids of people making 100k! That sure as hell is a form of welfare (wealthfare?) There's plenty more, pitch in.

You won't get anywhere unless you take a populist approach. No it ultimately isn't liberals versus conservatives, it's public interest versus the rest.

PS: my blog is about physics and general philosophy, which interests me more than this pitiful and depressing subject. Check it out if you like quantum mechanics, relativity, etc.

Wow, people are still comme... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Wow, people are still commenting on this thread!

I don't know if ACORN will have people at the tea parties or not, but some ACORN people were reportedly seen at some of the anti-stimulus rallies collecting signatures a couple of months ago so tea party organizers are alerting participants to look carefully at anything before signing it because it might not be what it is being represented as. Why should organizers, and bloggers, not be able to alert people to that possibility? (Silence talk radio, silence conservative bloggers. Nice. And you wonder what people are protesting.) Huff Po is openly asking their "citizen journalists" to monitor the events so talk of infiltration is not just crazy talk.

The protest is against the government our tax dollars support running deficits triple (or quadruple?) the size of Bush's to pay for massive government takeover of the private sector. Can anyone really argue that? Before you answer that let me remind you that Barack Obama is now guaranteeing your car warranty and demanded the resignation of the CEO of a private company.

Why aren't liberals welcoming conservative activism? What happened to "dissent is patriotic"?

"There's nothing nuanced... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

"There's nothing nuanced about the real world..."

No? You sure? Nothing at all?

Hyper,It took years ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Hyper,
It took years of the diplomatic approach before the Founding Father's declared independence and took up arms. So no, Obama would have to do much more than sign his budget to justify armed revolt.

As usual, you're just wallowing in asshattery.

"I think i am ent... (Below threshold)
914:

"I think i am entitled to point out where there is significant room for improvement"

No, YOU ARE NOT entitled to do anything in regards to my country stupid presumptious fool.

After all, freedom of speec... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

After all, freedom of speech is an American notion. At least according to the Canadian thought police

"Shut up that's why!"... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

"Shut up that's why!"
~Mr. Westchester

Ok, looked around a bit, an... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Ok, looked around a bit, and it seems the "ballots found in a car" story is pretty much a bunch of BS. Good try though.

Nope, 914, I can express wh... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Nope, 914, I can express whatever sentiment I want about the United States government--or my own--and the RCMP won't ship me to any Syrian dungeons. Probably helps that my name isn't Mahar Arar, though.

SCSI: maybe you should mention that every time some chucklehead starts drooling about armed rebellion on this blog.

Don't know how this tea par... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Don't know how this tea party thread turned to Franken, but I don't blame those on the left for wanting to change the subject since this is the first time in my memory that conservatives have engaged in widespread,national protest. The closest is the yearly pro-life march, but from what I can see the tea parties will dwarf those.

Here is one of the early reports on the Franken ballots that just kept mysteriously appearing and how incredibly unbelievable the percentages were of ballots found for Franken compared to the vote for Obama in the same districts.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11132008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/franken_fixes_stalk_senate_race_138523.htm

And that does not even go into the district(s) where more votes were cast than eligible voters in the district. Anywhere that is the case the votes for that district should be thrown out and a new election held. If there are more votes cast than there are registered voters there is no way all the votes can be valid and there is no way to know which are so there should be a revote. I know that is not what happens, but it should be. That's just common sense and fair play. I would think that even Democrats would have to acknowledge that, but they don't as long as their guy is ahead.

Hyper,Where's my bee... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Hyper,
Where's my beer?!?

Don't know how this tea ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Don't know how this tea party thread turned to Franken

You brought him up, that's how.

but I don't blame those on the left for wanting to change the subject since this is the first time in my memory that conservatives have engaged in widespread,national protest.

A "leftist" didn't change the subject, doubled did. I corrected his/her errors and we went from there. But I'm happy to talk more about tea parties. I think they're a hoot.

Here is one of the early reports on the Franken ballots that just kept mysteriously appearing and how incredibly unbelievable the percentages were of ballots found for Franken compared to the vote for Obama in the same districts.

Sorry, you're going to have to come up with something better than an opinion column by John "I lost my data but the survey is real dammit!" Lott.

After looking into this some more over the past day, it seems clear to me that you are getting your information from some goofy, disreputable sources, and it doesn't jibe with the facts. Not surprising, really. Wingnuts always think they're entitled to their own "facts."

Anyway, back to tea parties. Did you guys know you can buy loose tea? The whole teabagging thing is making you look pretty silly. I'll leave it to you to figure out why if you aren't already aware.

@90, Obama's budget may ind... (Below threshold)

@90, Obama's budget may indeed have higher deficits but why not have protested back when they were going up under Bush? People in his Administration were saying, "deficits don't matter" etc. Part of the reason our deficit is so high is a bungled war and the debt left over from BushCo. Also, we now have a major recession and that requires more stimulus than a healthy economy. We should have saved these past eight years for the rainy day that was sure to come.

I mean, <a href="http://won... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I mean, come on now. I thought leftwing protesters were embarrassing, but this is just sad.

Mantis, I'm not sure why yo... (Below threshold)

Mantis, I'm not sure why you say left-wing protesters. Wonkette is referring to a tea-bag protest which is a right-wing effort, true?

I mean that the tea baggers... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I mean that the tea baggers are topping the leftwing protesters on the embarrassment scale.

Welcome to <a href="http://... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Welcome to crazy town.




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy