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Somali Pirates Seize an American Tugboat

The Somalis have upped the ante and have now seized an American owned tugboat and are holding its 16 member crew hostage. The Somalis have decided that they are no longer interested in profit and instead are interested in seeing how far they can push the new American president. I have a feeling they are going to realize pretty quickly that they will be able to push him around fairly easily, especially since the administration is fearful that al Shabab might get involved if it reacts too strongly against the Somali pirates:

Senior Obama administration officials are debating how to address a potential terrorist threat to U.S. interests from a Somali extremist group, with some in the military advocating strikes against its training camps. But many officials maintain that uncertainty about the intentions of the al-Shabab organization dictates a more patient, nonmilitary approach.

Al-Shabab, whose fighters have battled Ethiopian occupiers and the tenuous Somali government, poses a dilemma for the administration, according to several senior national security officials who outlined the debate only on the condition of anonymity.

It's looking more and more like Somalia will trip up this president as well. Unfortunately, Clinton's mishandling and retreat from Somalia was one of the reasons Osama Bin Laden said he felt he could hit us on 9/11. Clinton's retreat told OBL that we were nothing but a paper tiger. Fortunately, OBL's attack was ill-timed because former president George W. Bush was in the White House, and we know how badly that turned out for al Qaeda. However, if terrorists wanted to strike America at a time when they could be pretty confident the reaction from the US would be muted, then they may decide that it would be better to do it when Obama is in the White House.


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Comments (99)

Time to escalate this thing... (Below threshold)

Time to escalate this thing...

We tried expressing displeasure...no effect.
We tried sending a ship to watch them and make REALLY menacing faces at them...no effect.
We tried sending helicopters to circle above them and mess up their dreadlocks...no effect.

It's [gasp] time for a STERNLY WORDED LETTER!!!

I know some of our Leftist friends are screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

But I believe we must risk bruising their fragile egos...they've left us no choice!

Another act of piracy? W... (Below threshold)
Brett:

Another act of piracy? Wonder Twits powers activate!

(barack) Form of a - spineless weasel!
(hillary) Shape of a - smirking harpie!

Its starting to sound like ... (Below threshold)
914:

Its starting to sound like a tired old cliche already but SUBMISSION ACCOMPLISHED

The US might press charges.... (Below threshold)
davidt:

The US might press charges...http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/apr/11/officials-fbi-launches-criminal-piracy-probe/ Wow.

could we trade them a boatf... (Below threshold)

could we trade them a boatfull of GreenPeace activists?? TWO boatfulls? ALL of them???

Once again we see the fooli... (Below threshold)
Bill M:

Once again we see the foolishness of electing a non-entity to the most powerful position in the world. What did anyone expect? Every day it becomes more and more obvious that he hasn't a clue of what to do. CIC? More like WIC (Wimp in Chief). Maybe he'll do something right but I'm not holding my breath.

Hate to say this but Joe Biden was right (even a broken lock is right twice a day). He said something like: We'll be tested and it won't be obvious that we're right. You were right Joe. It'll be obvious that you are wrong

What country shall we going... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

What country shall we going to start dropping 500 lbs depleted uranium bombs on to teach those guys a lesson?

Heads: Guatemala

Tails: Iraq

^ oops mangled ^... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

^ oops mangled ^

More like one or two of the... (Below threshold)
914:

More like one or two of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wki/Daisycutter ,

dropped on the pirates of Somalia Adrian..


I think it's rather patheti... (Below threshold)
NH:

I think it's rather pathetic that the French went out to rescue their people and yet, our lousy president hasn't done a darn thing to help these people.

Imagine being that captain's wife, waiting and waiting?

TERRIBLE!

"What country shall we goin... (Below threshold)
justpassingthrough:

"What country shall we going to start dropping 500 lbs depleted uranium bombs on to teach those guys a lesson?"

With this administration it's going to be more like 500 lb sternly worded memo with depleted ink cartridges.

The A/P just provided a hea... (Below threshold)

The A/P just provided a headline worthy of Scrappleface:

Officials: FBI launches criminal piracy probe

[and the opening paragraph just gets funnier!!]

WASHINGTON - FBI agents are investigating the Somali pirates who hijacked a U.S. ship and are holding its captain hostage, U.S. officials said Saturday, raising the possibility of federal charges against the men if they are captured.

Carter lead to Iran growing... (Below threshold)
Pretzel Logic:

Carter lead to Iran growing the BB's to get nukes. Clinton ignoring the Cole lead to 9-11. This isn't going to be good. We'll need a new administration in 2010 just to unravel this ball of snakes.

WASHINGTON - FBI a... (Below threshold)
Brett:
WASHINGTON - FBI agents are investigating the Somali pirates who hijacked a U.S. ship and are holding its captain hostage, U.S. officials said Saturday, raising the possibility of federal charges against the men if they are captured.

Sadly, this is not a joke.

I suppose that the next step is to start raiding Pet Shops to stop the illegal trafficing in parrots; you know, cut the problem off at its source

Letter to obama:Dear... (Below threshold)
Alan:

Letter to obama:
Dear President obama,
Tell the Secretary of the navy that you want this ended in 4 hours. End of story.

You would think that the UN... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

You would think that the UN could act against a failed state that has little if any support in the UN. The UN should authorize a police action like they did in Korean. Have the troops go in and take or destroy every boat and aircraft (if they have any). The UN would then need to pass a resolution that banned all travel to or from Somali, all trade with Somali, and all shipments to Somali. Finally, authorize navel, air, and land blockades to enforce resolution. Then wait until only those who can farm, hunt or fish are alive. At that point Somali might be ready to join the world again.

I know, I know, what about the innocent people who will die. Well they are hostages of the warlords. When someone sends aid to help the innocent people it always ends up in the hands of the warlords. Thing is, all the so-called innocent people understand that they must join with one of the warlords to obtain any aid at all, and as a result, there are no innocent people other than small children who serve as hostages. Perpetuating such a system may be more cruel than forcing it to collapse. The UN could authorize air drops of military type meals over wide areas so that at least some of it gets to the ordinary people. Same for seed and agricultural tools.

The dog most likely to get ... (Below threshold)
pgg:

The dog most likely to get kicked is the one least likely to bite back.

Ignore post #16. It would ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Ignore post #16. It would require strong leadership and I forgot Bush is now back in Texas.

Kim, check again if it's an... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

Kim, check again if it's an American Tugboat! All news stations are saying it's Italian, not American. Fact checks help, don't you know?

The obvious questions come ... (Below threshold)
OLDPUPPYMAX:

The obvious questions come up. Why would terrorists want to provoke the best friend they've could have ever hoped for in the person of our new acting president? He is accomplishing their goal of destruction of the US economy, trampling on the rights of the American people and bowing to Muslims across the planet. He will undoubtedly eagerly yield to any and all demands CAIR or any other terror front group should decide to make. So why work to provoke a patsy/ally?

Kim - "The Somalis have... (Below threshold)
marc:

Kim - "The Somalis have decided that they are no longer interested in profit and instead are interested in seeing how far they can push the new American president."

It has to be said.... Kim that's a ludicrous assumption. The tug may be U.S. owned but it was flying a foreign flag - Italian.

So, you tell me just how you came to this revelation that the pirates are rubbing the presidents face in it when the chances they knew who owned the vessel is slim, to none?

That said, promise these asshats anything, money, safe passage, an obama bobblehead doll, whatever.

Once the Captain is safe in U.S. hands string these assholes up from the USS Bainbridge's highest yardarm.

And put the "ceremony" on a live world-wide satellite TV broadcast.

It pains me to admit that J... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

It pains me to admit that JC Hammer has the tiniest smidgen of a point. Only the tiniest smidgen of one, though.

The tugboat in question is American-owned, but registered in Italy. It was flying an Italian flag when it was captured. The pirates had no way of knowing until they boarded it that it was not purely an Italian ship.

These pirates didn't target an American ship, they targeted a convenient ship. Not that it makes things any better...

J.

The Somalis have decided... (Below threshold)
SkyBlue:

The Somalis have decided that they are no longer interested in profit and instead are interested in seeing how far they can push the new American president.

Pirates captured a U.S.-owned and Italian-flagged tugboat with 16 crew including 10 Italians on Saturday in the latest hijacking in the busy Gulf of Aden.

It says the boat was carrying an Italian flag. There are only 2 ways that the pirates could ave known it was American owned.

1. Salt water may have knocked the contact lenses off of one of the pirates. The pirate than mistakes the Italian flag for an American flag.

2. One of the pirates recorded the tag # off of the back of the tug boat. He phoned it in to a buddy that works at the Maritime Vehicles Association. The buddy looked up the owner and phoned back that it was American owned.

jc hammer - "Kim, check... (Below threshold)
marc:

jc hammer - "Kim, check again if it's an American Tugboat! All news stations are saying it's Italian, not American. Fact checks help, don't you know?"

Fact checks damn sure do help.

Too bad you didn't do some yourself. Many reports, including the one Kim linked above state it is a "U.S. owned, Italian flagged" tugboat.

Do you have another pointless point?

the REAL story behind the p... (Below threshold)
Pirate Arrrrggghhhh:

the REAL story behind the pirates...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjreRSFNLTI

barack hussein obama should... (Below threshold)
marc:

barack hussein obama should take a lesson in these words from a Somali pirate.

The pirate said: "The worst experience I had was when a US warship attacked us while we were hunting a ship.

"It fired on us and captured some of us unexpectedly. We escaped with our speedboats while bullets buzzed over us."

Not to mention these words:

"If the UN gives approval to fight pirates on land, that will only lead to death of innocent Somalis.

"They cannot differentiate us from ordinary Somalis, we dress alike. Piracy will not stop unless we get a government."

Hey, JC Hummer -- ... (Below threshold)
Mike G in Corvallis:

Hey, JC Hummer --

Fact checks help, don't you know? The tugboat is American-owned, just as Kim wrote. It's flying an Italian flag, because it's registered in Italy.

Gonna give us any more of your "facts"?

Actually, it's now being re... (Below threshold)
brainy435:

Actually, it's now being reported as Italian owned, although it was initially reported as US owned. And, no, the pirates probably didn't check the records to verify ownership before picking a target.

And, really, depleted uranium bombs? Damn are you ignorant.

marcTha... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

marc

That said, promise these asshats anything, money, safe passage, an obama bobblehead doll, whatever

The only issue with that is that if we back out of any treaty /contract our word becomes crap. We must keep our word even when dealing with criminals, because we deal with low life scum to get good humint.

What the %$^& is the FBI, a... (Below threshold)
hermie:

What the %$^& is the FBI, a domestic law enforcement agency, doing 'investigating' an act of piracy off the coast of a hostile foreign country? What authority do they have to direct the US Navy on how to handle this?

Are they going to read the pirates their 'rights', if they are arrested? Are they going to bring them to the US for trial?

Maybe Obama should just go ahead and apologize now to the pirates for our 'arrogance' in thinking that we have the authority to arrest them.

hermie - "What the %$^&... (Below threshold)
marc:

hermie - "What the %$^& is the FBI, a domestic law enforcement agency, doing 'investigating' an act of piracy off the coast of a hostile foreign country? What authority do they have to direct the US Navy on how to handle this?"

Um, maybe because the NY office of the FBI has been granted special authority since the Khobar Towers bombing to do what's being reported.

Not to mention they aren't "directing" the Navy to do anything.

Less than 100 days into Jim... (Below threshold)
John S:

Less than 100 days into Jimmy Carter's 2nd term we have the U.S. Navy running away from gun toting thugs in rowboats. We can expect the Bambi administration to make the U.S. look like powerless fools. And I'm sure Al-Qaeda is watching. They've learned a hard lesson about Democrat vs. Republican presidents. And they will see their chance to hit us again.

Here is an <a href="http://... (Below threshold)
marc:

Here is an interesting article on why the Alabama was a target of the pirates.

Would you be surprised to learn the UN, NATO and the EU have botched the job they were assigned?

Ref #24 & 27. Not one Ameri... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

Ref #24 & 27. Not one American on the tugboat. Fact check! It's a Italian boat. But keep asking Rush on what to say. Very amusing.

The FBI is involved in the ... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

The FBI is involved in the lifeboat situation because it's become essentially a hostage standoff, and they have been asked to participate as advisors to the Navy. As I understand it, it's still the Navy's ball; they've just called in experts to give them guidance. A very smart move by the Navy.

And Obama's silence on the matter is also very smart. All that would do would be to magnify the ugly mess into a far, far, far bigger problem.

And it pains me no end to say that...

J.

jc hammer - "Ref #24 & ... (Below threshold)
marc:

jc hammer - "Ref #24 & 27. Not one American on the tugboat. Fact check! It's a Italian boat. But keep asking Rush on what to say. Very amusing."

Amusing, certainly is.

Italian flagged nitwit, educate yourself:

Flag of convenience, A flag of convenience ship is one that flies the flag of a country other than the country of ownership.

Hell, even clownish Rush has more smarts than you.

Just another distraction fo... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Just another distraction for Obama.

BTW

Google "Distraction for Obama" - 74,200 hits.

Google "Distraction for Bush" - 399 hits.

Man Obama sure is distracted.

Hell has again officially f... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Hell has again officially frozen over.

I agree with marc's post #21.

Unfortunately, his lucid moments are somewhat intermittent, as evidenced by post #24.

And Jay Tea, how can you be the voice of reason on Wizbang, and simultaneously a reactionary nutbag on Oliver Willis?

bh - "Hell has again of... (Below threshold)
marc:

bh - "Hell has again officially frozen over. I agree with marc's post #21."

Well then, AGW isn't a problem any longer.

"Unfortunately, his lucid moments are somewhat intermittent, as evidenced by post #24."

Sticking up for a sadly misinformed jc hammer bh? Yeah too bad I put on display his lack of knowledge isn't it?

"And Jay Tea, how can you be the voice of reason on Wizbang, and simultaneously a reactionary nutbag on Oliver Willis?"

The race baiting Oliver Willis does that to many.

Just heard on the news that... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Just heard on the news that pirates had fired at US sailors, and the sailors backed off. Guess Joey Biden was right. 'We're gonna be tested and you're not going to like the results'. Does anyone else get the feeling that this whole thing is going to end badly for us?

im·pu·nity<br... (Below threshold)


im·pu·nity
noun
OLD definition...
freedom or exemption from punishment, penalty, or harm

b>NEW definition...
highjacking a tugboat in the midst of all the world's navies while they are all focused on ending the LAST highjacking!

It does not MATTER what "flag" this tugboat was flying...just that they KNOW they have nothing to fear from our Dear Leader!!

Shame on Obama for not nuki... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Shame on Obama for not nuking everyone and anyone near the site of this hijacking! How dare he calmly consider what to do next, weigh all his options, and act only after careful consideration! What a pussy!

What kind of leader does the Free World have?

Prudence? We don't need no steenking prudence!!!

BTW, Marc, I dare you to co... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

BTW, Marc, I dare you to comment, on any subject, on OW's site. You'll be destroyed in minutes, by commenters far more erudite than I.

Seriously. I dare you.

The Obama administration is... (Below threshold)

The Obama administration is "debating" what to do? This is such B.S. If W was still in the White House there would be no question as to what action to take.

Obama needs to grow some new ones and fast. His severe lack of experience and cajones is showing.

It's time for tough militar... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

It's time for tough military action to use aircraft to seek out and destroy other pirate vessels. No more Mr. Nice Guy. No more talk with these criminals.

Bruce, I use the same voice... (Below threshold)

Bruce, I use the same voice in both places. Different issues, different opinions. It's called "thinking for one's self." Try it some time.

Oliver's site also has a lot more frothing sociopaths commenting over there than here, my old stomping grounds. "Erudite?" Like Strowbridge, News, or Jaim? Get real, Bruce. If Marc should venture over there, he better have his rabies shots. I wouldn't recommend it.

Hooson, the problem is not fighting pirates, it's finding them. Until they attack, they look pretty much like any other fishermen.

What's needed is summary justice once they're caught. Hanging the first couple of dozen we catch ought to send the right message... and it's historically justifiable.

J.

Really? Which one of you ma... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Really? Which one of you manly men wants to break the news to the Captain's widow that the rash actions of your government caused the death of your spouse?

You guys are so fuckin' manly.

Blowhards. Electronic macho men. Typist-warriors. I'm so impressed.

Macho blowhard bullshit. </... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Macho blowhard bullshit.

"And it's historically justifiable." Too bad it's not justifiable to dispense "summary justice" under international law in 2009.

No nation, no matter how powerful, is allowed to summarily execute people.

Oh, for the good old days!

Bruce, I'll do it. I'm even... (Below threshold)

Bruce, I'll do it. I'm even in the right general neighborhood -- right on the Vermont border.

"Ma'am, I'm sorry, but your husband was killed when we took out the pirates who were holding him. We regret that, but we knew that if we let them take him to the mainland, or paid the ransom, we'd be condemning many, many more sailors would be future victims. Now that we've shown the pirates that hostages are no protection, we hope they'll stop using them. It may take killing more pirates, but we're prepared to do that -- your husband will not have died in vain. You have the gratitude and sympathy of our nation, and can know that we will do all we can to make certain his death was not meaningless. I know that that can't make up for the loss of your husband, but I believe that he would have understood -- he willingly surrendered himself in exchange for his crew's safety, and his death very well may save many more lives."

You're such a fucking wimp, Bruce. You don't understand basic economics -- whatever you subsidize, you get more of. If we reward these pirates for taking the captain hostage, then we guarantee more hostages -- witness the ships loaded with "human shields" that came out to attempt to recover the pirates on the lifeboat. You'd rather save one life now, and endanger countless more tomorrow -- because you can hope that it'll never happen. And hope is all you have -- it's warmer than reality.

J.

Bruce, I know you're dense,... (Below threshold)

Bruce, I know you're dense, but try to restrain your most idiotic rants.

So, what's your solution to the problem? I've stated mine numerous times -- a heavy military presence, with ships empowered to render swift justice on any captured pirates, with the understanding that taking prisoners will not be a priority. Pirates are considered, historically, enemies of humanity, and I see no reason to reconsider that.

Go ahead, Bruce. Offer your solution, without the frothing psychos and blathering cheerleaders you're used to around OW's place. Show your guts (and lack of wits).

J.

"If marc should venture ove... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

"If marc should venture over there, he better have his rabies shots. I wouldn't recommend it."

So only you have enough machismo to brave the toughguys at OW? Marc's not equal to the task?

While I'll grant you Strowbridge is a little over the top sometimes, Jaim, fafaroo, Sean D. Martin, Repack Rider, and ed regularly and roundly beat your sorry ass, JT. Along with several others.

My dare stands, Marc. But you don't have the intellectual guts, is my wager.

You know, Tea, piracy is a ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

You know, Tea, piracy is a very knotty problem. Problems are not always solved by bombs. Sometimes, but not always.

I recommend prudence.

Because the Royal Navy hung Blackbeard in SevenTeenSeventySomething doesn't mean we should resort to brute force in 2009.

And congratulations on writing off Capt. Phillips' life as a cost of doing business. I'm a little more squeamish, and not ashamed to say it.

Not only that, Teabag, but ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Not only that, Teabag, but BOTH QUAKERS kick your ass on a daily basis on OW's site. If you think Marc could handle himself there, tell him to step up. I not only dare him, I dare you.

Ooh, "Prudence!" Bruce know... (Below threshold)

Ooh, "Prudence!" Bruce knows a big word!

I think I dated her, once...

Come on, Bruce. offer us your wisdom with your course of inaction. After all, we faced a similar problem in the early 90's, and 1) this is NOTHING like that, and B) happened way far away in Mogadishu...

"Prudence" is, in this context, an adjective. Offer a verb.

J.

"Wait."That's a ve... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

"Wait."

That's a verb, right?

And if we wait a couple of hours, or a couple of days, before committing the most powerful navy in the world to action, will we be "submitting" to pirates? Or will we be acting wisely?

Conversely, if we start blowing shit up now, and Capt Phillips is killed, will we be considered heroes, or hotheads?

Macho blowhards, I say.

Seriously, Jay Teabag, just... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Seriously, Jay Teabag, just because I called you a "voice of reason" doesn't mean you have to over-compensate by bellowing FIREPOWER!!! now.

bruce henry: "Which one ... (Below threshold)

bruce henry: "Which one of you manly men wants to break the news to the Captain's widow that the rash actions of your government caused the death of your spouse?"

Jay Tea's answer was perfect. But I'd like to add something to it...it's from a man who bore your last name, but whom you are NOTHING like:

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"

Well, bruce, is it??

Please tell me, justrand, w... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Please tell me, justrand, what price you personally have paid for your liberty, that makes you feel so free to express what price Mrs Phillips should pay.

well, brucie, I spent 8 yea... (Below threshold)

well, brucie, I spent 8 years in the Marines.

and every minute of those 8 years I was fully prepared to fight and die for my country. putting myself between my family and harm's way was EXACTLY why I enlisted!

what have you personnaly done to deserve having people like me keep your sorry ass safe?

Marc, realizing you idolize... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

Marc, realizing you idolize Rush, it is understandable your rantings are just that.

BTW, Jay Teabagger's answer... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

BTW, Jay Teabagger's answer is fine, as long as our government's action is wise and well-considered, balancing the life of our citizen against the national interest.

But what the Wizbangers seem to be advocating is military action for the SAKE of military action.

In other words, blindly striking out like a pitiful, helpless giant.

Wouldn't it be better to strike only when we can be sure to be effective?

still waiting for your answ... (Below threshold)

still waiting for your answer, bruce: "what have you personnaly done to deserve having people like me keep your sorry ass safe?"

Well?

and while your mulling that over...the fact is that which succeeds is repeated! Our Dear Leader has already handed them a propaganda success, by his utterly ineffectual handling of this...now calling it a "Crime Scene".
Further success will only ensure it is repeated! Oh wait...they just DID repeat it!

"Blindly striking out li... (Below threshold)
914:

"Blindly striking out like a pitiful, helpless giant.
wouldnt it be better to strike only when we can be sure to be effective?"

ummm...That would be after this administration expires. When a tiny boat full of refuse approaches, you blow it out of the water. Effective enough for you?


Well, justrand, because we ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Well, justrand, because we live in a free-market democracy, the price I paid, with my tax dollars, was paying your salary during your 8 years in the Marines.

While you gained valuable experience and enhanced your resume at my financial expense.

Or are you claiming that your military experience had no residual benefit?

I don't know if you're aware of this, but no one can verify if you are telling the truth on the internet. Especially if you are using a pseudonym, like "Justrand." For all you know, I served in the Marines too. Or maybe the French Foreign Legion, or the Green Berets.

My point being it's your arguments that matter on the Internet, not the life experience you (claim to have) had.

My question about Capt Phillips' widow was a rhetorical one.

Bruce Henry, Broad b... (Below threshold)
maggie:

Bruce Henry,
Broad brushing Wizbang are you? A couple of
commenters plus you having at it, so you
decide to denigrate this blog?
You see that line in the sand? Don't cross
over it again.

Bruce, The same argu... (Below threshold)
maggie:

Bruce,
The same argument you just used against
justrand can be applied to you.

bruce: "the price I paid... (Below threshold)

bruce: "the price I paid, with my tax dollars, was paying your salary during your 8 years in the Marines. While you gained valuable experience and enhanced your resume at my financial expense."

translation: people in the military are mercenaries...and we should be more respectful of you since you paid and pay our salaries. Of course, fresh from college I could have made 10 times the amount of money had I gone directly into private life.

Still, I gotta hand it to you, that attitude towards the military was so perfectly in character...and so splendidly sums up how the Left feels about those who keep them safe in their Birkenstocks!

Jay, the UN would have to p... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

Jay, the UN would have to pass a resolution through the security council, which I'm sure both Russia and China would support since they have ships in the area, banning weapons such as AK47's, grenade launchers or other types of weapons larger that a fishing knife or pistols on the type of small boats that are being used for pirate activity. If a ship from the American, British, French, German, Chinese or Russian Navy views a boat with men armed with such weapons as grenade launchers or AK47s, then they have to fire on it and destroy it. Disarming these small boats would go a long way towards stopping this problem. Those boats carrying larger weapons could face destruction.

bh - "BTW, Marc, I dare... (Below threshold)
marc:

bh - "BTW, Marc, I dare you to comment, on any subject, on OW's site. You'll be destroyed in minutes, by commenters far more erudite than I.

That's your only response to the nonsense you spewed in #43.

My commenting ability, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with how I would be receive on Willis' site.

Fact is, very much like the assholes at Wizbang B the mere typing of 4 letters - Bush - will get you set upon as if they were a pack of wolves or at the very least promptly banned.

bh [blowhard] continues in another comment - "You guys are so fuckin' manly. Blowhards. Electronic macho men. Typist-warriors. I'm so impressed.

This from the manly man that's dared me, DARED me I tell ya to visit o. willis's site.

pffft, asshole.

bh - "My point being it... (Below threshold)
marc:

bh - "My point being it's your arguments that matter on the Internet, not the life experience you (claim to have) had."

Really? Think so?

What if someone had direct and longtime experience in dealing with situations such as this?

Here's a clue, search the phrase "VBSS US Navy," (visit, board, search and seizure for the clueless among us) both someone here and the Navy has had nearly 20 experience on handling these type of situations.

p hooson - "Jay, the UN... (Below threshold)
marc:

p hooson - "Jay, the UN would have to pass a resolution through the security council, which I'm sure both Russia and China would support since they have ships in the area, banning weapons such as AK47's, grenade launchers or other types of weapons larger that a fishing knife or pistols on the type of small boats that are being used for pirate activity."

Yeah that'll work.... about as well as the just passed UN res on the DRPK missile launch.

Besides that your response once again shows your complete and utter ignorance of the military and how ours must operate.

RE: the 1958 Geneva Convention on the High Seas and the 1982 LOS Convention cover this precise problem.

This'll teach me to go to b... (Below threshold)

This'll teach me to go to bed early...

Bruce, I'll have to remember that "taxpayer" argument the next time one of your buddies over at OW tosses around the "chickenhawk" argument. It's utterly fatuous, self-serving, and meaningless -- which means it ought to fit in just fine.

And blowing away a lifeboat full of scumbags would NOT be "blindly striking out." It would be an act of sanitation.

Hooson, there is absolutely no need to go to the UN over this. Laws and international agreements regarding piracy as an enemy of mankind long predate the Useless Ninnies. Hell, go read the Constitution -- what do you think Article 8 means when it gives Congress the power "To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations?" Here's a hint: the "high Seas" means "beyond the territorial waters of the United States."

But let's pretend, just for a moment, to take Bruce seriously. (I know this is a challenge, but bear with me.) He says "wait."

So we wait.

We wait until the pirates and their hostage run out of food. (It's already happened once.) Then what? They threaten to kill him (and, possibly, eat him -- who knows?) If we don't give them food.

Their buddies back in Somalia throw some more hostages on some ships and they come out to rescue our pirates, safe in the knowledge that we won't attack the rescue ships behind their human shields.

They've alredy done both -- and only the fact that they're incompetent sailors and couldn't find the lifeboat (and the USS Bainbridge) kept them away.

Meanwhile, we're still following Bruce "thumb up the ass" Henry's learned counsel and waiting... for the pirates to make their next move. Yielding them the initiative. Purely reacting to their actions.

Doing nothing.

Fine, fine counsel there, Bruce. If only you'd cheated on your taxes, you'd fit in to the Obama administration perfectly.

J.

Is anyone else surprised th... (Below threshold)

Is anyone else surprised that Hooson's response boils down to "gun control?"

It ain't the weapons that are the problem -- it's the guys holding them. They're already breaking centuries-old laws, and have ready access to weapons (largely thanks to your buddies in China, among others) -- what makes you think that your solution will work?

No, what'll happen is we'll end up having to tie up countless ships along the Somali coast, stopping and searching every little boat. And if we do find forbidden weapons, what will we do? Toss them overboard and tell the would-be pirates "don't do that again?"

I know one great way to do that -- kill them. Kill enough of them, and they'll stop. It's worked every time it's been tried against pirates before.

J.

"I know one great way to... (Below threshold)
914:

"I know one great way to do that-- kill them. kill enough of them and they'll stop. Its worked every time its been tried against pirates before."

Worked great against the terrorists that were supposedly not in Iraq as well.

Kudos for recognizing that,... (Below threshold)

Kudos for recognizing that, 914. Last week's suicide bombing in Iraq was the first in how long?

J.

Obama has a plan for dealin... (Below threshold)
retired miilitary:

Obama has a plan for dealing with the pirates.

STRONGLY WORDED UN RESOLUTIONS.

I mean if Obama wants to use them against NK which violated international ballistic missile laws than a strongly worded UN resolution will scare the hell out of some pirates.

Pual Hooson ref your gun co... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Pual Hooson ref your gun control comments.

What if the pirates umm hide the weapons until they hijack a ship?

OH MY. Strongly worded UN resolutions against guns wouldnt help there now would it Paul Buffoon.

""They cannot differenti... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

""They cannot differentiate us from ordinary Somalis, we dress alike. Piracy will not stop unless we get a government."

That explains everything! I say we give them ours. A selfless act, I know, but I'd be willing to sacrifice.

"My point being it's you... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

"My point being it's your arguments that matter on the Internet, not the life experience you (claim to have) had."

Well if you're going to imply he's a liar, then why did you ask him?

Oyster, it's simple: Bruce ... (Below threshold)

Oyster, it's simple: Bruce was wondering which ad hominem tactic to use. He had to choose between the "chickenhawk" or the "welfare recipient" model.

The important point here is that Bruce didn't want to address the issue, but his opponent...

J.

What makes me wonder, is ho... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

What makes me wonder, is how long before squads of Marines are stationed on random ships of US ownership or registry? If not actual USMC, then mercenary forces.
Let the pirates come along side the slow freighter, let them board, then let the last thing they see be the barrels of MP5s.

It won't help the sailors on the tug, or the hostage they already have. But dead pirates send a message

Jay Tea (et al), I see you ... (Below threshold)

Jay Tea (et al), I see you noticed Bruce's "Slavemasters disdain" summed up in his response to me:
"the price I paid, with my tax dollars, was paying your salary during your 8 years in the Marines."

Actually stunning in how honestly and completely it expressed the Left's view of our military!

The last stanza of Rudyard Kipling's 'Tommy' is my last reponse to Bruce on this subject:

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees
!

Paul Hoosen, although I onl... (Below threshold)

Paul Hoosen, although I only agree with about .01% of your opinions, you do express them better than most from the Left side of the political spectrum!

That said, this piracy will diminish (or cease) when the following happens:

"When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor."
from 'The Law', Frédéric Bastiat, 1850
[hattip to one of my friends at BeJohnGalt]

Just to add to the fray, so... (Below threshold)
epador:

Just to add to the fray, so Paul, you're saying that if a small boat owner decided to arm himself with automatic weapons to DEFEND against pirates he should be blown out of the water for having weapons on his boat?

"That said, this piracy wil... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"That said, this piracy will diminish (or cease) when the following happens:
"When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor."-justrand

I'm GUESSING that these pirates are on salary by some syndicate. Accept the (advance) pay, do the job. If all goes well, share the bounty. Until then, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

Keyword: s-o-m-a-l-i-a, t-e-e-n-a-g-e-r-s, w-o-m-e-n, d-r-u-g-s, s-t-a-t-u-s, h-o-p-e

Obama is turning this incid... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

Obama is turning this incident into a police matter. This marks a return to 9-10 mentality.

I am bemused watching Obama. He adopts those Bush policies which insulate him from direct responsibility yet clearly jeopardizes the country with with his simplistic perspective on foreign events.

He is not acting in the best interest of the country but only in his own best interest.

drjohn,When has Obam... (Below threshold)
MPR:

drjohn,
When has Obamalala ever acted in the best interests of the country? That's this country. The U.S.of America, that is. Have to make that clear judging by his actions ya know.

Jay, the UN would ... (Below threshold)
Jay, the UN would have to pass a resolution through the security council, which I'm sure both Russia and China would support since they have ships in the area, banning weapons such as AK47's, grenade launchers or other types of weapons larger that a fishing knife or pistols on the type of small boats that are being used for pirate activity.

Gun control? (*snicker*) Oh yeah, that'll work. After all, it's worked so well in Detroit, Philadephia, Washington DC, all of whom owe their monumentally low crime rates to their strict gun control laws.

Bruce""the price I... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Bruce

""the price I paid, with my tax dollars, was paying your salary during your 8 years in the Marines.
While you gained valuable experience and enhanced your resume at my financial expense.
"

The final inspection - author unknown

The soldier stood and faced God,
Which must always come to pass,
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his brass.

"Step forward now, you soldier,
How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek?
To My Church have you been true?"

The soldier squared his shoulders and
said, "No, Lord, I guess I ain't,
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can't always be a saint.

I've had to work most Sundays,
And at times my talk was tough,
And sometimes I've been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.

But, I never took a penny
That wasn't mine to keep...
Though I worked a lot of overtime
When the bills got just too steep,

And I never passed a cry for help,
Though at times I shook with fear,
And sometimes, God forgive me,
I've wept unmanly tears.

I know I don't deserve a place
Among the people here,
They never wanted me around,
Except to calm their fears.

If you've a place for me here, Lord,
It needn't be so grand,
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don't, I'll understand."

There was a silence all around the throne,
Where the saints had often trod,
As the soldier waited quietly,
For the judgment of his God.

"Step forward now, you soldier,
You've borne your burdens well,
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell."

Bruce for all the men and women who have served, some of whom have fought and died, paid for by your tax dollars while they enhance their resume, so that you have the freedom of speech to say the trash you said above. I wholeheardetly exercise my freedom of speech as someone who has served to say

F*CK YOU

BTW my apologies to the mod... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW my apologies to the moderators, writers and MOST of the posters on this board for my profanity especially on Easter. Bruce you are not included in the above mentioned groups.

BTW Bruce, your statement ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW Bruce, your statement about tax dollars paying my salary shows you have never served in the military nor have been a member of the chosen few.

Shakespeare had words which fit you just fine.
They are the ones in bold.


KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.

This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day

bryanD Pirates li... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

bryanD

Pirates like most criminals are opportunist they like path of least resistance. The US paid 1 million a year to the Pirates in the late 1700. They did so because that was what everyone had done since the 16th century.

it was in 1801 that we finally went to war for the first time. We had to fight again in 1815. The second time the other nations took piracy as threat and stopped paying tribute and started killing the scum.

At the time the west did not create new schools. Killing the Pirates made the life style choice unattractive to many Muslims.
Even though Piracy was a cool thing todo.

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

The world has let a nest of vipers grow again.
They now have the money to buy better equipment, bribe port officials and terrorist groups are looking at them as source of funding.

The Pirates represent a clear and present danger. It not only in Africa,pirates are getting increasing bold in Southeast Asia.

It is time for the world to exercise the force of will and take these groups on. AK-47 against a 5 inch gun, RPG against a MK-V
Pirate Mansion against 500LB bombs

What am I talking about?
Let have Pirate tax and we can use the money to build schools, and send the pirates to college in France then the can come back home and create a Communist Utopia.


retired military,No ... (Below threshold)
MPR:

retired military,
No apology necessary my friend. I hope your passion catches on.

Bruce's remarks on the para... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Bruce's remarks on the parasitical nature of standing armies (while inartfully put) has been echoed down through history, not least by the founding fathers. The Roman republic was destroyed by the generals. The Empire was destroyed by the legionaries. The ducal armies and the "Companies" of 13th and 14th century France had to be sent on goose chases in the middle east and Byzantium lest France lose its agricultural and commercial life. The rise of the Prussian military state led to 200 years of war culminating in the holocaust; after all, it was the German General Staff that set the goal of invading the USSR nearly 10 years before Hitler's ascession to power in the wake of the defeat of the White Russian-French-US-Japanese-Polish-Hungarian invasion of Russia in 1919.
Remember: Hitler did not "tame" the Wermacht until 1943 when he absolutely knew he had nothing to lose (post-Stalingrad/Kursk).
Until then, the Wermacht operated under Case Orders. The planning and execution was all their's.
Anyway, in this country THANKFULLY the military rank and file is not considered an interest group. But if it ever becomes one, we'll know the end (or hard times) are in store.

BTW, I'm not relieving Der Feuhrer of any responsibility, but anyone who is familiar with the subject knows that Hitler was the Delegator of all Delegators. He made Nixon and Reagan look like Jimmy Carter on meth.

bryanD, C 1/7, USMC, 0331, '79-'82

It appears that Bruce has d... (Below threshold)

It appears that Bruce has decided to demonstrate some "prudence" of his own...

J.

hcddbz,Who said an... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

hcddbz,

Who said anything about schools? And I know all about Lt. O'Bannon. Butler, Puller, Henderson, etc.

I'm just saying, 1) there is probably a syndicate running the show and happy to pay for a garrison force of potential pirates.
2) This potential garrison force lives in the worst place in the world and probably expects to die young because the thought of living to be a mangy old beggar is something to be wiped from the mind immediately. So dead isn't the worst thing be.
3) Therefore, when the pirates come, let's have the ability to shoot them from a deadline of 3000 yards= 50 cals fore and aft, maybe port and starboard. It's really not a big deal. If no lesson is learned, let the ransoms be paid or whatever.

This story is only 3 notches more important than a whale calf getting lost in the East River.

retired military...well spo... (Below threshold)

retired military...well spoken Sir!! :)

cheers, Semper Fi, and Happy Easter (an interesting tri-fecta!)

It says the boat w... (Below threshold)
dto:
It says the boat was carrying an Italian flag. There are only 2 ways that the pirates could ave known it was American owned.

1. Salt water may have knocked the contact lenses off of one of the pirates. The pirate than mistakes the Italian flag for an American flag.

2. One of the pirates recorded the tag # off of the back of the tug boat. He phoned it in to a buddy that works at the Maritime Vehicles Association. The buddy looked up the owner and phoned back that it was American owned.

SkyBlue is hilarious. I laughed till it hurt. And republicans say democrats do not have a sense of humor.

"It says the boat was carry... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"It says the boat was carrying an Italian flag. There are only 2 ways that the pirates could ave known it was American owned.
1. Salt water may have knocked the contact lenses off of one of the pirates. The pirate than mistakes the Italian flag for an American flag.

2. One of the pirates recorded the tag # off of the back of the tug boat. He phoned it in to a buddy that works at the Maritime Vehicles Association. The buddy looked up the owner and phoned back that it was American owned.

"


I guess using the internet and the international boat registry along with the radio frequence IDs that all LEGAL boats broadcast and are able to be tracked on the internet didnt happen to be thought of the pirates. They just happen to attack any old vessel that looks good and hope that the owners will come up with a multimillion dollar ransom.

You have to love liberal thinking.




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