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Oklahoma City Tea Party, April 15 edition

That was then (the first Oklahoma City Tea Party rally, Feb. 27, 2009):

teabig1.jpg


and this is now:

OKCity-tea2-3.jpg

We had around 3000 5000 show up today at the south steps of the State Capitol (maybe more - one of the local TV stations sent their helicopter to cover the rally). The organizers were hoping for 1000, and I think it's fair to say that no one, in their wildest dreams, expected this kind of turnout. The event was absolutely incredible.

__________________________

KTOK radio reported 3000. The Daily Oklahoman is reporting 5000, based on an estimate by Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

I've been to a number of events at our state capitol (both legislative and general public) and I have never before seen the amount of traffic congestion, overflowing parking lots, or number of pedestrians that I saw around the capitol complex today. I'll try to have some video up later that includes crowd sweeps, so readers can gauge the size of the crowds for themselves.

Meanwhile, if you're still wondering what this whole thing is about then be sure to check out this Tea Party primer written by Michelle Malkin, which chronicles all the events starting with the home-grown protest in Seattle on February 16, through the famous Rick Santelli CNBC rant on Feb. 19, the first nation-wide Tea Party day on Feb. 27, and all of the other events that eventually led up to today's mass nationwide effort.

The Tea Party Day website says that over 2000 Tea Parties were scheduled for today. If average attendance is 500 for each of these (and I have already seen multiple reports of large Tea Party rallies attracting 3000 - 5000 or more) then we could have well over a million in combined attendance nationwide. What an incredible contrast to the measly 200,000+ signatures that Organizing for America managed to get in favor of the Obama tax and spend and spend some more budget plan -- and that was after working over 13 million registered Obama supporters!

They will mock and ridicule and pretend to ignore this, but right now a lot of Democrats have got to be scared out of their wits.

(More comments plus video links after the jump...)

Commenter (and self-confessed "liberal troll") Bruce Henry says, "right now, you guys got nothin'." He is right about the fact that the Tea Party movement doesn't have a cult figure leader like Barack Obama (or Louis Farrakhan, for the "Million Man March") -- in fact, RNC Chair Michael Steel was denied permission to speak at today's Chicago Tea Party. Our Oklahoma City organizer, Alan Webb, also politely refused requests by local politicians who wanted to address the crowd. Today's protest, he said, was so that politicians could listen to the people, and not the other way around.

At this point it's hard to predict what will come out of the Tea Party movement. In my opinion, Tea Party organizers would do well to keep this a grassroots effort and resist the advances of the Republican party (we all know the Dems won't touch these rallies with a 10 ft. pole). I am convinced that once the Democratic party took over the grassroots/"Netroots" movement (or did the Netroots take over the Democrats? I'm always confused about this ...) the grassroots Left lost much of its momentum and genuine excitement. And now that their guy is in the White House, liberal grassroots organizing efforts are falling flat.

So to anyone wanting to organize the Tea Party movement on a national scale, I'll say again, listen first, before you do anything else. Organize the movement around the main themes that supporters continually express. You will lose some of the fringe, but that comes with the territory of organizing. Do not force a political agenda on the supporters, and do not trick supporters into becoming bought-and-paid-for shills of any political party. Make politicians listen to the group and agree to its platform, and not the other way around.

Here is some video from today's OKC rally. The rally's organizers encouraged ordinary citizens to write opinions and email them to the organizing committee. At the rally, Dan Ward read comments sent in my men, and Julie Henry read the comments sent in by women. Some were funny, some were critical, but all echoed frustration and disappointment with the current direction that our DC leadership is taking our country.

Here are some of the comments that Dan read. There is a crowd sweep beginning around 2:00, if you are interested in seeing how many people attended:

And here are some of the comments that Julie read:


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Comments (52)

That looks like the same am... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

That looks like the same amount of people that provided 'tens (if not hundreds) of thousands' for anti-war protests. It'd be interesting to get an ACCURATE count - I'm estimating about 70-80 people wide (visible) by about that same number deep, so you could be looking at over 5000 easy... depending on what's to the sides you could double that.

Maybe that TV station took a still shot from the air, and we can get a better idea...

How many of these people ac... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

How many of these people actually earn over $250,000 facing possible federal tax increases are there? Folks under that would get tax breaks with the Obama plan, if congress passes it.

I think most folks earning $250,000 are too busy doing something worthwhile than screwing around on a workday like Wednesday holding some silly sign. Who are these folks that can take the day off?

I think most people realize... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

I think most people realize by now that $250k boundary is pure fiction, Paul. Kind of like Obama's idea that he can cut deficits by spending even more money we don't have.

Have any of your renters ever complained "I don't know why the check bounced - I can't be overdrawn! I still have checks!"? Would YOU tell them to bounce three more of the same size, and the bank would magically make it all better?

Paul, since you lefties are... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Paul, since you lefties are kinda thick, let me explain again. They are protesting the wasteful spending from our taxes. You guys just don't get it. These people actually had to take a vacation or PTO day to do this. Unlike you, I admire them. You hold them in contempt which is half the problem with liberals. ww

Hello, JLawswon, certainly ... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

Hello, JLawswon, certainly some of my renters are having a very difficult time right now. That's why I'm working on a real estate deal today to buy a grocery store and get out of some my rental property.

Wildwillie, I'd like to hear exactly what these folks would propose to cut to save taxes. Specifics. I don't hold them in contempt. If anything they have my sympathy if they're having a hard time making ends meet. I understand that many people are in those straits now and angry about that fact.

newsok.com is reporting 5,0... (Below threshold)
Mary:

newsok.com is reporting 5,000. I found your site looking for photos of the event, looks like a great turnout. Wish I could have gone, but couldn't get away from work for a lunch hour today.

Paul, you sound like a tire... (Below threshold)

Paul, you sound like a tired liberal who's running out of arguments. These aren't rent-a-mobs like ACORN. They're real people who are concerned about the massive spending and government growth. I have a feeling many of these people decided it was worth it to spend a vacation day come out and participate in today's rallies.

Kim, I just wonder who can ... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

Kim, I just wonder who can spend a day screwing around holding a sign instead of being productive, that's all. But if a lot of these folks are unemployed, etc. then they have my sympathy.

Michael, what a great turn ... (Below threshold)

Michael, what a great turn out! It must have been a blast to be with like minded people who care about the well being and health of our country. These are people who want to live a life of self-reliance without interference from the government. These are not people who are demanding the paychecks from other Americans, unlike the ACORN folks, who are getting billions in taxpayer dollars from Obama.

I was there and it was a gr... (Below threshold)
Kelly White:

I was there and it was a great (and fun) event.

I think it's great to see A... (Below threshold)
Hal:

I think it's great to see American's doing things like this.

I'm seeing a lot of leftwingers all bent out of shape over the tea parties and don't get why.

Just stopped by one blog who said it was because "right wingers" have suddenly gotten the idea that their taxes are too high.

I think he's missing the point. It's like WildWille said, it's the spending and out of control government erasing freedoms that I think has all these Tea Party goers upset.

hooson - "How many of t... (Below threshold)
marc:

hooson - "How many of these people actually earn over $250,000 facing possible federal tax increases are there? Folks under that would get tax breaks with the Obama plan, if congress passes it."

Better question; How many of these people will lose a portion of any potential tax rebate as a result of deductions for charitable giving being reduced by your one true luv obama?

If you don't know the answer your a lot further in the "Tank of Obama" than I ever considered.

And the nonsense re hooson continues: - "Kim, I just wonder who can spend a day screwing around holding a sign instead of being productive, that's all. But if a lot of these folks are unemployed, etc. then they have my sympathy."

Can your point to a similar hooson quote that relates to the many anti-war, anto-Bush protests over the last 8 years?

I was there (used a vacatio... (Below threshold)

I was there (used a vacation day to go) and I saw a LOT of homeschoolers with their kids. I spoke with a State Trooper and he said his guess was between 4k & 5k on the crowd size.

I expected a big turnout. Oklahoma had the highest % vote for McCain and for the first time since statehood has a Republican controlled Congress (state level)

Shit fire.... I missed this... (Below threshold)
marc:

Shit fire.... I missed this classic hooson quote: - "Hello, JLawswon, certainly some of my renters are having a very difficult time right now. That's why I'm working on a real estate deal today to buy a grocery store and get out of some my rental property."

And I bet they are thankful at the possibility of losing you as a landlord.

And BTW, that's "mighty kind" (if kind means greedy bastard) of you to be thinking so much of your renters.

On the other hand you COULD really help them and lower their monthly rent during these hard times. Instead you're fleeing like a cockroach as the light is turned on.

arsehole!

It will be an indication of... (Below threshold)
Rance:

It will be an indication of the strength of the movement to see the sizes of the crowds the next time there is a call to rally. Does this movement have the staying power of the "Ban the Bomb" crowd or the "Save the Trees" group?

Time will tell.

I attended the rally. It w... (Below threshold)

I attended the rally. It was from 12:00 to 1:00 pm, so I took a long lunch hour. A day off was not necessary, just a couple of hours.

I'm back at work now.

hooson, another question fo... (Below threshold)
marc:

hooson, another question for you.

Why is the White House saying obama knows nothing of the tea parties?

Is he really that detached from the real world or is the WH lying?

It really is a shame, some ... (Below threshold)
Joboo63:

It really is a shame, some so called Americans will accept a trillion or more dollars in debt, will accept big corporations being bailed out while a single mom struggles to get food to the table, they will accept all of this and more, and worse yet, they will argue when someone does not accept this, you want to argue about it, go to a rally, show your ass, go to the rally and tell the crowd that you think what is going on in America is ok, it's fine, there's nothing wrong with the finacial downfall that America is being put through, you are fine with everything that is going on now, cause that, from what I gathered from being there today, is what the rally is really about.

So when you start to care about what America is going through, then make a post, other than that, sit on your hands and watch as the real people who care....do something about it.

And furthermore, this is not about the president, this is about ALL of our so called government officials who think we, as a people, don't care about America anymore and will allow them to do what ever they want....and to me, that is just not true!

"Why is the White House ... (Below threshold)
914:

"Why is the White House saying obama knows nothing of the tea parties? is he really that detached from the real world or is the WH lying?"

Both

Paul Hooson has left becaus... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Paul Hooson has left because he had his ass handed to him for his inane and insane comments. If anyone used a hard earned vacation day for this revolt, I respect them very much.

When Gibbs said Barry did not know about the tea parties, well, that shows how easy the lies roll off their tongues.

I have not met many people who are NOT fed up with the way our government is being run. By either party. They are, in their words, sick of it. This is only the beginning.

Now Barry puts out a very non specific DHS report about racists and hate groups, etc. This is the kind of stuff people are sick of. ww

I won't speculate but it's ... (Below threshold)
marc:

I won't speculate but it's interesting who stopped the D.C. tea party by tossing a box of tea bags over the WH fence.

The obvious perps would be an extremely tone deaf nut from the right, or someone form the left attempting to discredit the rally.

I assume the guy in the hat... (Below threshold)

I assume the guy in the hat is the ExxonMobil "handler/organizer"? Or was CAT running this one?

;)

....and he is spinning in h... (Below threshold)
Brother of a Dead Marine:

....and he is spinning in his grave. He was KIA 56 years ago. His country was something to stand for back then, but would his death be worth it today? I would hope so, and methinks we will find out by 2012.

marc,Nice dressing... (Below threshold)

marc,

Nice dressing-down of Paul Hooson. He really deserved that one.

I'll second your comments -- if Hooson really believes what he and his Blue cohorts preach, then he should be slashing rent, regardless of whether or not he loses money out of his own pocket, not bailing out of his rental properties.

In fact, if Hooson is forced to spend his own money subsidizing low rent, then won't America be a better place? Wouldn't that mean that "wealthy" Hooson (if he is buying a grocery store, then he is obviously "rich" and not a "working American") is finally paying his "fair share"?

It's always amazing when liberals admit (even inadvertently, which was probably the case here) that they put their own pocketbooks ahead of the welfare of those less fortunate than themselves (like Hooson's renters).

Paul Hooson really is sole the voice of reason over at Blue. Perhaps this slip-up shows that he is also human, just like the rest of us.

"tossing a box of tea bags ... (Below threshold)
914:

"tossing a box of tea bags over the WH fence."

If thats all it takes to scare them.... Stock up on tea bags and we'll drive the leftists into the harbor and back to England to live under Kings and Queens like the subjects they want us all to be.

As a liberal "troll", I say... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

As a liberal "troll", I say a hearty congratulations is in order to the Tea Party attendees for expressing their opinions, as is their 1st Amendment right.

Perhaps from this movement a leader will emerge who can articulate conservative principles in a way that the public can embrace. That'll be a good thing.

'Cause right now, you guys got nothin'. And a healthy, loyal, opoosition party is important in a democracy.

Give it time Bruce. These t... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Give it time Bruce. These things go in cycles. Republican leadership lost their way and tried to mimic democrats with the spending. Now they will go back to our conservative principles. ww

Hello Michael and Marc, I'v... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

Hello Michael and Marc, I've not only been allowing some renters to slide along with owing me back rent, which I'll never seriously attempt to recover, but I've also been offering financial help to a number of friends and neighbors who are in serious financial straits. But you have to put a limit on it. When a neighbor shows up at my front door and asks me to loan them $10,000 or they'll lose their home to foreclosure, it pains me. And I have to seriously think it over. But when a friend calls and needs just a $1,000 not to be kicked out of their apartment. Then that's a much easier call to say yes and write them out a check.

But I guess what I can't really understand about this Tea Party movement is that it looks like sort of an umbrella movement for a bunch of antigovernment kooks to me. For example, former porn star Marilyn Chambers was once arrested for dancing nude in a San Francisco movie theatre during the late 1970's on the orders of former Mayor Feinstein on a crackdown on some strip clubs. So Chambers became an antigovernment activist and was the 2008 Boston Tea Party candidate for vice president this past November. Other Tea Party movement members show up today protesting wearing kooky hats or costumes. The Tea Party movement looks largely like a bunch of antigovernment kooks to me, with no realistic views of the role of government. Am I wrong?

From one anti-government ko... (Below threshold)
epador:

From one anti-government kook (me vs Obama) to another (PH vs GWB)

I'm on my way to a Tea Party! (my work day is done having started at 6 AM and run straight through to 4 PM). WIll I see you there?

M L - "Hooson (if he is... (Below threshold)
marc:

M L - "Hooson (if he is buying a grocery store, then he is obviously "rich" and not a "working American") is finally paying his "fair share"?"

Not to mention his business acumen isn't of the highest order. The grocery retail business has one of the lowest profit margins in the entire retail industry.

Of course my assertion is supported by his own admission of having been the owner of 7 of 8 different enterprises over the years.

That indicates one of two things, 1) many of those failed, or 2) he thought a change to "greener pastures" would work but had zero ability to determine what would be a going and profitable concern in the future.

hooson - "But I guess w... (Below threshold)
marc:

hooson - "But I guess what I can't really understand about this Tea Party movement is that it looks like sort of an umbrella movement for a bunch of antigovernment kooks to me."

How not so shocking you would come to that hair-brained conclusion.

"For example, former porn star Marilyn Chambers was once arrested for dancing nude in a San Francisco movie theatre during the late 1970's on the orders of former Mayor Feinstein on a crackdown on some strip clubs. So Chambers became an antigovernment activist...."

That's funny, you've expended much bandwidth defending the porn industry in the past.

Now you not only use Chambers attempting to discredit this movement by use of her name but that of Sen. Feinstein (D - looneyville) as well.

BTW, will you send your respects to the Chambers' family? She died 2 days ago at the age of 56.

Marc, my philosophy of busi... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

Marc, my philosophy of business is to go from opportunity to a better opportunity as times change. When the record business when into a serious recession in the early 1980's and many of my millionaire friends in the industry were ruined financially, it made good economic sense for me to move on to becoming a book retailer for a few years. But since I loved electronics, I became a TV retailer soon after. Now I'm into rental property. But with so many struggling residential renters, it only makes sense to look at grocery retailing as a recession proof business. I'll keep my rental properties for now. But they're on the trading list, first good opportunity that comes along to hand them off as the problem of someone else. I hear so many hard luck stories everyday, it breaks my heart. I'd like to cut that down my getting rid of some rental headaches.

The only way to longterm sa... (Below threshold)
jmc:

The only way to longterm save the U.S. is to raise taxes, now! and to cut spending, now!

From Glen Beck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-16u9x3tfE

From 60 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs


on Bill Maher:

http://www.thefinancialtube.com/video/1272/David-Walker-on-Bill-Maher-Show-1011

Republicans if they want the U.S. to suceed need to back tax increases. Democrats need to back program cuts.

Since that won't happen and both sides will use this to try and score political points... our country is doomed. Republicans will continue to cut taxes (but not spending they never do that) Democrats will continue to spend (but not increase taxes well accept an insignifcant amount on the wealthy) and we will all go bankrupt.

Only democrats calling for program cuts and Republicnas calling for tax increases would save us (only Nixon can go to China as the saying goes) So count on bankruptcy.

Marc, I actually was a fan ... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

Marc, I actually was a fan of Marilyn Chambers myself and was rather amused at her antics over the years, going from the Ivory Soap girl to becoming an outrageous counterculture figure. But I use her example as one of the reasons she became the vice presidential candidate for the Boston Tea Party. It's an umbrella for a bunch of antigovernment kooks in my view, with no realistic philosophy of government. What do they want to eliminate? Private property? Police? Schools? Firemen? A military? A Navy? It's always hard to figure anarchists out.

hooson - "Marc, my phil... (Below threshold)
marc:

hooson - "Marc, my philosophy of business..."

Is to bail on those pesky "deadbeat" renters and dump the problem on the eventual buyer of your property. And then, move into one of the least profitable businesses in the country.

To put it another way... your clueless.

Marc, regardless of what yo... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

Marc, regardless of what you think about my philosophy of business, it has left me far from broke. Too many of many friends have lost tons of money in business, but I managed to survive one way or another and to take assets from opportunity to fund another better opportunity.

hooson - "But I use her... (Below threshold)
marc:

hooson - "But I use her example as one of the reasons she became the vice presidential candidate for the Boston Tea Party. It's an umbrella for a bunch of antigovernment kooks in my view,"

What you really did was to use a dead celebrity and applied her membership in one single SMALL political movement to a much wider group of people, numbers are approx 100 thousand at last count, that have NOTHING to do with her or that group.

At best it's disingenuous, but I'd go further and call it hooson asshattery at it's finest.

hooson - "What do they ... (Below threshold)
marc:

hooson - "What do they want to eliminate? Private property? Police? Schools? Firemen? A military? A Navy? It's always hard to figure anarchists out."

Private property? Guess you haven't noticed, eminate domain is alive and unfortunately healthy.

The fed gov doesn't employ police or firemen, wanna try again?

Let's start here

Sell off Amtrack, it's nothing but a money black hole and losses money when other private service at least stays close to if not over the red line.

Post officer... GONE and sold off to FedEX and UPS.

IRS... GONE.

The Senate and House of Reps... GONE in thier present form and replaced by one term limits for both, NO financial contributions from outside the state they intend to represent, NO pay increases that are "self increased," they must be approved by the people.

etc...... this list is near endless.

Marc, indeed the federal go... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

Marc, indeed the federal government has to offer many earmark grants to local police or firemen. Many local districts do not have an adequate tax base to buy fire equipment such as trucks or hoses. In fact, up to 90% of the nation's fire departments are run by volunteers, often using a federal grant to buy trucks or other equipment.

Okay, I'm moving on now. I only had a little time to kill waiting for my real estate agent to call me back about two business deals I'm mulling over, and now it's 5pm, so apparently neither has accepted my offers I guess. I don't have all day to chat here like you do.

Paul, thanks for responding... (Below threshold)

Paul, thanks for responding. I was probably a little hard on you. It's always nice to know a little bit more about the people I converse with online. But I hope this creates a better understanding of how honest businesspeople feel when they are routinely smeared as rich, evil, greedy bastards. Perhaps you can speak to your Blue compatriot Lee about that some time.

With regard to your other point, it seems that you have trouble understanding the difference between the Boston Tea Party and the nationwide Tea Party protests. How can a simple similarity between names cause that much confusion? And, are multiple word meanings difficult for overeducated leftists to understand? Is this why Rachel Maddow and others on the Left apparently cannot fathom any meaning for the word "teabag" other than hanging one's "family jewels" in another person's face? Pardon our collective ignorance. We rube conservatives believed that effete Ivy League schools prepared their graduates a little more thoroughly than that.

Just so there is no more accidental confusion, today's Tea Party protests have nothing to do with the Boston Tea Party, Marilyn Chambers, or genitalia -- except perhaps as an accurate way to describe the behavior of some liberals in response to the Tea Party protests.

hooson - "Marc, indeed ... (Below threshold)
marc:

hooson - "Marc, indeed the federal government has to offer many earmark grants to local police or firemen."

Ah-huh, just who do you suppose has their signature afixed to the bottom of their paycheck hooson? The state they are employed by or obama's?

Sorry guy that as specious an argument as I've seen in well.... well, since your last comment that preceded this quote.

I've seen a great number of... (Below threshold)
Thomas Jackson:

I've seen a great number of trolls but anyone like Paul who believes that they will be exempt from tax increases is either ignorant or just a red diaper baby.

Which is it Paul?

Explain to us how doublling cigarette taxes is aimed at the rich.

Explain to us how repealing the Bush tax cuts won't impact on the middle class.

Explain to us how spending more than the total spent on WWII will be paid for and who will pay for it? Sure the rich will pay for it.

Tell us how Obama's cap and trade would add 3-4000 in expenses to every American's family utility bills.

Fuck the socialist clowns like Presidente Zero who claim compassion and let their brothers live in slums. Screw the liars who tell us about the law and import their illegal relatives to live on the government tit.

Most of all damn the Leftwingnuts who shred the Constitution and divide the nation as it hasn't been divided since the Civil War.

Worse we are watching Presidente Zero destroy the economy. Does anyone believe the economy will be better in a year? Do you think your pension plan will be restored or your 401K reach the same point it was before the election while Obama is in office.

If you do I have some great beachfront property for you in Utah and a wonderful investment opportunity in Lagos.

Paul, How about you ... (Below threshold)
maggie:

Paul,
How about you taking your contempt back over
to Blue where the rest of your flotsam resides.

Paul -Way up at th... (Below threshold)
Greenbow:

Paul -

Way up at the top, I asked if any of your tenants had said "I don't know why the check bounced - I can't be overdrawn! I still have checks!"

It's a very old joke, Paul, used to point out the cluelessness of someone who believes that being able to write a check IS the same thingas having money in the bank to cover it.

Obama's been spending a hell of a lot of money that isn't there. Just covering the checks themselves are going to be murder, and the less said about the bounced-check charges the better.

Would you have told a tenant who said they couldn't be overdrawn that all they had to do was toss out MORE bad checks and everything would be okay? I would think 'no' - because you know there's no way it COULD be.

And yet - how is what Obama doing any different?

The next step is the start ... (Below threshold)
Jim in N.Y.:

The next step is the start a movement to repeal the 16 th amendment. That amendment repealed Article 1 section 9, clause 4 of the Constitution, which bars the current income tax system. Income taxes are allowed under that now repealed clause of the Constitution:

"There appears to be no dispute about the plain requirements of the Constitution that direct taxes must be apportioned and that indirect taxes must be uniform."

By eliminating the apportionment and uniformity requirements, the Federal Government was give the unlimited and unrestrained ability to tax people. The limits on the power to tax that were so wisely placed in the Constitution, were designed to constrain abusive taxing powers.

A repeal of the 16 th amendment will not eliminate the power to levy Federal income taxes, but mere impose the apportionment and uniformity requirement. Satisfying those requirements are politically unpalatable . That would necessarily result in a excise tax as a substitute, probably a consumption tax such as a national sale tax. Without an income tax, a national sales tax would be far better. People could largely control their taxes by deciding how they spend their money. It would also fuel capital formation at a rate not seen in 125 years.

I say we start here and now the movement to repeal the 16 th amendment.

Jim in N.Y.Would y... (Below threshold)
Rance:

Jim in N.Y.

Would your national sales tax be on everything bought and sold in this country, or would there be loopholes?

Paul Hoosons class shines a... (Below threshold)
max:

Paul Hoosons class shines a glaring light on marc and maggies lack thereof.

max, That's right... (Below threshold)
maggie:

max,

That's right, try pinning us on the bottom
of the bottom of the barrel.
You're so classy yourself.

"You're so classy yourself.... (Below threshold)
max:

"You're so classy yourself."

Thanks.

max - "Paul Hoosons cla... (Below threshold)
marc:

max - "Paul Hoosons class shines a glaring light on marc and maggies lack thereof.

And what does that "light" show you asswipe?

In answer to Paul's post #2... (Below threshold)

In answer to Paul's post #2, I didn't take the day off. I took two hours off for lunch, without pay, because I believe I've had enough of my tax dollars being pissed away by the idiots in office. It's not about what kind of deal I can get on my taxes. Try considering what you can do for your country instead of the other way around.

Marc:Regarding you... (Below threshold)
Ken:

Marc:

Regarding your "shopping list", a few thoughts....

I don't believe term limits for Congressmen are an answer. Truth is, we already have a (theoretically, at least) term-limits law; it's called an election. Admittedly, it would be nice if more people realized the potential effectiveness of that approach, but....

Your other suggestions vis-a-vis Congress are more interesting, specifically: "NO financial contributions from outside the state they intend to represent" -- I like that one. Did you know, for example, that in his 1990 re-election bid, North Carolina Senator Jesse Helms ran against Harvey Gantt, and 65% of Gantt's campaign funds in that election came from out-of state? (I suspect that is one reason people are so enamored of term-limits; they want to influence elections for which they are ineligible to vote.)

But the other, "NO pay increases that are "self increased," they must be approved by the people", is already in place; it's called the 27th Amendment to the Constitution, which provides that "No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened". The theory, I assume, is that once the people get wind of politicians' feather-bedding, the voters will have the opportunity to can their money-grubbing asses before the pols actually manage to get their meat-hooks on the swag.

An interesting historical note about the 27th Amendment -- it was actually one of the original 12 amendments proposed by the very first Congress in 1791 (ten eventually became the Bill of Rights), and it took over 200 years to be ratified (largely due to the efforts of a student at the University of Texas, who realized that the amendment did not have an expiration date).

As for your suggestion that "IRS... GONE.": The IRS isn't the problem; it's the tax code that is the problem. Let's face it, the last time the U.S. tax code was compiled into a single volume, it underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole. The tax code was designed to be impossible to comply with, because every politician knows that guilty people are easier to control. A tax code should be designed for one reason and one reason only: to generate revenue. A tax code is not the appropriate avenue to regulate behavior, but that is exactly what it has been perverted to do, through a positively Byzantine system of bribery and extortion -- from credits for EnergyStar-compliant television sets to 1.6-gallons-per-flush toilets in your home (which makes that old joke, "Flush twice, it's a long way to Washington" particularly poignant, doesn't it?) Then again, once we eighty-six the tax code, the IRS won't have anything to do, so what the hey, let's toss 'em.





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