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California's Prop 8 Upheld

Whether you agree with Prop 8 or not, it's no real suprise that the California Supreme Court upheld the right of citizens to ammend their constitution.

(05-26) 10:29 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- California voters legally outlawed same-sex marriage when they approved Proposition 8 in November, but the constitutional amendment did not dissolve the unions of 18,000 gay and lesbian couples who wed before the measure took effect, the state Supreme Court ruled today.

The 6-1 decision was issued by the same court that declared a year ago that a state law defining marriage as the union of a man and a woman violated the right to choose one's spouse and discriminated on the basis of sexual orientation.

Prop. 8 undid that ruling. The author of last year's 4-3 decision, Chief Justice Ronald George, said today that the voters were within their rights to approve a constitutional amendment redefining marriage to include only male-female couples.

It appears that, barring a future constitutional ammendment, the matter is now resolved in California.


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Comments (100)

Calipornia is history.<br /... (Below threshold)
914:

Calipornia is history.

So does this mean that Miss... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

So does this mean that Miss California represents all of Californians?

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES... (Below threshold)
G.:

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stick that up your liberal asses instead!!!!
:-D

So freakin stupid. I could ... (Below threshold)
Dave:

So freakin stupid. I could careless if anyone can get married so Im indifferent to the idea. But Id probably vote against it because Im tired of people thinking that they have born rights to be married. And if anyone bothers to READ the decision by the court and what Prop 8 says. Marriage has been defined as between a man and a woman. So start a petition for a Civil Union. its the same damn thing, but Perez Hilton on larry King said what the real deal was. "Why should I have to change the name of what I beleive in?" Its not really about rights according to him. its about redefining the term marriage. Start a petition for civil unions. I bet it gets passed with flying colors through almost any state govt. Other than Nevada. I completely disagree with the Nevada gov's choice to veto the civil union bill. That was stupid and rightfully should be overturned by the legislation. Someone said you cant call a cat a dog and cant call a dog a cat. They are 2 different things. That doesnt make one better than the other. it just makes them different. I dont know why someone didnt try to attach an ammendment to the defense of marriage act that defines marriage between a man and a woman and civil union as whatever the PC terms are and that both carry the same equal rights and protections. That would pass with flying colors and everyone is happy. Its all about defending and attacking the word marriage. not about actual rights. This has been the major hold up to almost every disagreement in this debate. Pick a different term and get what you want. Or dont and keep struggling.

1)Prepare yourselves for th... (Below threshold)
G.:

1)Prepare yourselves for the liberal media/Hollywood and nancy/queer/poof onslaught.

2)If you're offended, I don't care. Go whine about it to your mommy.

To conservatives: Don't!! be afraid to fight back. Don't be ashamed of conservative values.

To pro-gay Cino's (conservatives in name only: See the second sentence above.Go ahead and come out of the political closet and consider changing to the democrats-please.

"Pick a different term a... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"Pick a different term and get what you want"

That would be a compromise Dave, and the radicals are unwilling to compromise. And you are very correct, were they willing to compromise there would be no controversy and they'd have all the rights they wanted.

#3Instead of what?... (Below threshold)
914:

#3

Instead of what????????????????

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

it's no real suprise tha... (Below threshold)

it's no real suprise that the California Supreme Court upheld the right of citizens to ammend their constitution.

Really? Given that it is California we're talking about, it wouldn't have surprised me in the least if the Court had overturned Prop 8, using whatever rationale it wanted.

This definitely falls into the 'man bites dog' category, a situation where judges actually defer to the 'wisdom' of the people. It doesn't happen everyday...

"It appears that, barring a... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"It appears that, barring a future constitutional ammendment [sic], the matter is now resolved in California." -- Kevin

This matter is definitely NOT resolved quite yet. What propositions are approved by the electorate can be overturned by other propositions later on. Proposition 8 only won by 52% to 48%. How much would it have passed by two decades ago? Would the subject of homosexuals getting married even arose in the 1950s?

Who voted for Proposition 8? Older people right? The youth vote was decidedly against Proposition 8, wasn't it?

Once the elderly bigots start dying off and taking their backward, prejudicial ideas with them to the grave, gay marriage will return to California. Just like it will be coming to New Hampshire, and eventually New York.

Deal with it.

Sperman HermanYour... (Below threshold)
914:

Sperman Herman

Your the bigot

Exactly 914. Don't agree wi... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Exactly 914. Don't agree with the looney left like Hermann, you are a bigot or racist. Typical and old. ww

Wow. Herman, do you have d... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Wow. Herman, do you have data to back up your assertions?

HermanDo you consi... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Herman

Do you consider Obama and Hillary Bigots? both of them state that marriage should remain between a man and a woman.

Obama on Gay Marriage: 'I do believe that tradition and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.'

Oops there goes the lefties heading for the door.

Exactly 914. Don'... (Below threshold)
jmc:
Exactly 914. Don't agree with the looney left like Hermann, you are a bigot or racist. Typical and old. ww

Well, it takes a little more than to just disagree with us. You also have to do bigot like things. Like deny others the right to marry based on their sexuality. Since you do those things, you are a bigot Willie.

As for whether you are a racist I don't know; but it wouldn't suprise me. I'd bet you'd vote against an interacial marriage ban as well. Doesn't matter. The mood of the country is changing on the issue, the marriages before this are honored. It is becoing legal in many states. and you religious zealots are losing ground fast. It's only a matter of time.

Yes I would vote against an... (Below threshold)
914:

Yes I would vote against an interracial marriage ban in a second..

JMC, why are You against different races loving each other and getting Married?

Herman, You're not b... (Below threshold)

Herman,
You're not bigoted in your anti age screed
are you. Where are your sources that show
who voted for or against. And I do mean your
sources that show each and every vote by
the voter for and against. You can't. So your
bigoted accusation is just that, bigotry.

Yes I would vote ... (Below threshold)
jmc:
Yes I would vote against an interracial marriage ban in a second..

This is the beauty of conservatives. In 20 years, once gay marriage is legal across the country and everyone acknowledges it was the right things to do(just like interacial marriage.) Bigots like you will be ashamed to admit you were ever against it.

jmc, The next time y... (Below threshold)

jmc,
The next time you accuse another commentor of
being a bigot after posting a civil comment,
you're going to be joining the shoveled out
trash from Wizbang.

The people have spoken, the... (Below threshold)
GianiD:

The people have spoken, the courts have spoken, why not just accept it, and move on?

jmc,The next tim... (Below threshold)
jmc:
jmc, The next time you accuse another commentor of being a bigot after posting a civil comment, you're going to be joining the shoveled out trash from Wizbang.

Well, I could accuse the likes of you of being an open and tolerent person. But we both know that's not true! :)


JMC"Well, it takes... (Below threshold)
retired military:

JMC

"Well, it takes a little more than to just disagree with us. You also have to do bigot like things. Like deny others the right to marry based on their sexuality. "

Same question to you. DO you consider Obama and Hillary bigots as they have both stated marriage should be between men and women alone?

Herman still has not answered the question. (Naturally).

He won't answer the questio... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

He won't answer the question because he lacks courage and character.

I believe homosexuality is a sexual deviancy and goes against the natural order of things. I do not hide my belief, but presenting it honestly.

I do not wish any homosexual or anyone really, violence by hand or word. ww

I'm not you willie. I'll an... (Below threshold)
jvc:

I'm not you willie. I'll answer in my own good time.

Same question to ... (Below threshold)
jvc:
Same question to you. DO you consider Obama and Hillary bigots as they have both stated marriage should be between men and women alone?

Herman still has not answered the question. (Naturally).

I don't think Barack and Hillary are. Both have pushed for gay rights instead of pushing back against them. Like conservatives.

Obama, voiced his opposition to prop 8 in fact. However both are pragmatic politicians, they won't vocalize there support until it politically safe to do so. Won't be long as support for gay rights continues to increase in this country everyday. Younger people in particular are ot bothered by it. Conservatives hae lost. hey might get a small vicory here or there ut it keeps coming. California will have it 2010 despite the hatred of those who wish to stop it.


JMC"I'll answer in m... (Below threshold)
retired military:

JMC
"I'll answer in my own good time"

But it is such an easy question to answer. After all you were quick to call me a bigot and homophobe when I stated I didnt approve of gay marriage. You called other people bigots in this thread as well.

Yet you wont just run right off and call Obama and Hillary a bigot for saying the same things.

What was that term you used above?
Oh yeah RELIGOUS ZEALOT

"Doesn't matter. The mood of the country is changing on the issue, the marriages before this are honored. It is becoing legal in many states. and you religious zealots are losing ground fast"

ANd what was it exactly Obama said

"Obama on Gay Marriage: 'I do believe that tradition and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.'
"

Why he MENTIONED HIS RELIGOUS BELIEFS AND THE WORD SANCTIFIED AS WELL DIDNT HE.

So question. Is Obama a religous zealot as well?

Come on JMC it isnt a hard question to answer now is it? I mean for such a smart self described PATRIOT as yourself. Surely you can answer 2 itty bitty questions cant you?

Go ahead be a man or just go googling stuff to try to help you squirm out of this one like the spineless person you are.

I believe homosex... (Below threshold)
jmc:
I believe homosexuality is a sexual deviancy and goes against the natural order of things. I do not hide my belief, but presenting it honestly.

Am I the only one who finds it incoherent that the those on the "religious" right think government a terrible pernicious thing except when they can use it to punish groups they don't like?

Hey idiot?? otherw... (Below threshold)
914:

Hey idiot??

otherwise known as Herman.....Read Your own statement.

I am not against any one of any race finding a special person they want to spend their time With here in the first age ....And raising a family as well..

In other words...Im not against a Black Man and White woman getting hitched and doing the "wildthing".


I said I would vote against a ban on interracial Marriage in a second Einstein. Are You like ADD or just impervious to logic?

Yknow, ban, meaning it dont happen... shheeesus, no wonder the Countrys so fucked up.

JMC"I don't think ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

JMC

"I don't think Barack and Hillary are. Both have pushed for gay rights instead of pushing back against them. Like conservatives. "

So wait a second. They both state that marriage is between a man and a woman and they arent bigots according to you.

Yet you accuse folks in this thread as well as myself of being bigots solely on the fact that we believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Your answered the question but your logic is out the window.

Now is Obama a religous zealot since you state they oppose gay marriage and Obama specifically mentioned his religion in stating he was against it?

Yes Liberal twisted logic redux COME ON DOWN as JMC states NO Obama isnt a religous zealot.

the California Supreme Cour... (Below threshold)

the California Supreme Court took a step BACK from the cliff of judicial insanity!

absolutely REGARDLESS of what you think of gay marriage or gays in general, the decision was 100% correct.

had they invented a reason to NOT uphold Proposition 8 then the rule of law in California would have died on the vine.

the people of this State have a RIGHT to vote as they did. If the gay marriage lobby wants to put a proposition up in the other direction then that's fine.

Hey idiot HERMAN...SORRY ... (Below threshold)
914:

Hey idiot HERMAN...SORRY SUPPOSED TO BE JacMyCar !! Got my idiots all crossed up..

JMC... READ 27!!! ITS MEANT FOR YOU!

But it is such an... (Below threshold)
jmc:
But it is such an easy question to answer. After all you were quick to call me a bigot and homophobe when I stated I didnt approve of gay marriage. You called other people bigots in this thread as well.

As you can see above, I did answer it. However, I will do these things in my own time. I'm not going to rush or neglect other things I want to do because you are getting impatient. In fact, before I respond to the reat of your stuff, I must clip my toe nails. .

JMC"Am I the only ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

JMC

"Am I the only one who finds it incoherent that the those on the "religious" right think government a terrible pernicious thing except when they can use it to punish groups they don't like?
"

Oh you mean like Obama right? Since he is against gay marriage on religous reasons. And oh by the way just because Hillary and Obama may have supported some gay rights it doesnt mean that they support gay marriage. Your nonanswer is showing in your eyes. They are totally brown. Why not pull your head out of Obama's ass for a breath of fresh air?

Amazing how Herman and JMC both just sorta dismiss the Obama religous argument yet want to paint anyone on the right who is against gay marriage for any reason as both a bigot and a religous zealot.


Clip Your toe nails??... (Below threshold)
914:

Clip Your toe nails??

Give Grandma back Her nail clipper and get the hell out of Her basement!!

Clipping toenails is libera... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Clipping toenails is liberal speak for googling his ass off trying to find something to save face with.

ha ha ha ha... (Below threshold)
914:

ha ha ha ha

Hey idiot?? otherw... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Hey idiot??

otherwise known as Herman.....Read Your own statement.

I am not against any one of any race finding a special person they want to spend their time With here in the first age ....And raising a family as well..

In other words...Im not against a Black Man and White woman getting hitched and doing the "wildthing".

Uhh, no my dull friend. I was not accusing you of being against that. I was saying the beauty of conservatives is that you tend to always be behind. Many who would have opposed interacial marriage would never voice that opnion today. they have become used to the idea. in 20 years you will be ashamed of your views. or ashamed of the way your children looking you for being on the wrong side of a civl rights issue.

Comprende? or do I need to break this down as though I was speaking to a 4 year old?


Clipping toenails... (Below threshold)
jmc:
Clipping toenails is liberal speak for googling his ass off trying to find something to save face with.


Said the man too stupid to read post 24 which I posted sometime ago.

Now it is my turn Rm. It lo... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Now it is my turn Rm. It looks General petraus just came out in favor of closing Gitmo and ending torture in the U.S. You don't think he is a commie now do you.

Oops there goes the righties heading for the door.

I was not on the wrong side... (Below threshold)
914:

I was not on the wrong side of the "civil rights movement" Im not a DEMOCRAT

"You dont think He is a com... (Below threshold)
914:

"You dont think He is a commie now."

No, but I know You sure espouse the red logic.

"Wow. Herman, do you have d... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"Wow. Herman, do you have data to back up your assertions?" -- SCSIwuzzy

Check this poll out, from about a week before the California election:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=1c4ececc-7c3c-490c-8f35-13341be85e1e

No on Prop. 8, 18 to 34 years old: 63%
Yes on Prop. 8, 65 years old plus: 56%

jmc, You and your t... (Below threshold)

jmc,
You and your toenail clippers are skating
on very thin ice.
The next time you accuse anyone of anything
you are not willing to backup/answer, you and
your toenail clippers will be clipping elsewhere.
Comprende, or do I need to break it down as to
a four year old child.

jmc, Post your sourc... (Below threshold)

jmc,
Post your source/links to Patreous
on closing Gitmo and his views on 'torture'.

The next time you... (Below threshold)
jmc:
The next time you accuse anyone of anything you are not willing to backup/answer, you and your toenail clippers will be clipping elsewhere.

Uhh, you may have noticed that I did back it up. I defined what I consider a bigot. Someone who is for discrimination. And I sure as fuck don't have to answer any questions I don't feel like answering. You are not very smart are you?

Comprende, or do I need to break it down as to a four year old child.

Well if you did so, it would be a stretch for you to reach the four year old level. But I have faith you could do it, despite your mental handicap.


I'm going to clip my nails then it's off to the movies. have a nice day :)
depp=true
notiz'=You're not smart at all. Editor

So, the 35 to 65 year old v... (Below threshold)
914:

So, the 35 to 65 year old voter data was ommitted for what reason?? Herman?

Ohh.. Thats right..To make Your stupidity stand out in its exceptionalism.

JMC You coward...Go run awa... (Below threshold)
914:

JMC You coward...Go run away now.

JMC"Now it is my t... (Below threshold)
retired military:

JMC

"Now it is my turn Rm. It looks General petraus just came out in favor of closing Gitmo and ending torture in the U.S. You don't think he is a commie now do you"

a. One's opinion on GITMO doesnt make one a commie. Unlike your opinion that if someone is against gay marriage then they are a bigot and a religous zealot unless of course they are a democrat which means it is all a smoke screen and they are hiding their true feelings for political purposes. Does that make them better or worse than religous zealots? I guess in your mind it doesnt matter since they are democratic politicians.

b. I dont base my opinion on whether GITMO should be closed or what is and is not torture based on someone else's belief. Unlike you I dont need validation of my beliefs by others.

"Said the man too stupid to read post 24 which I posted sometime ago"

Said by the man too stupid to read post 28 which I posted sometime ago in response to post 24.


BTW JMC how about that religous zealot question which you failed to answer. Which was asked in post 28 so you couldnt have answered it in post 24.

And again let me make sure I understand your point in post 24. You state that Obama and Hillary are lying about being for gay marriage for political reasons. That was your contention. Since they are democrats does that mean that democrats wont vote for them if they are for gay marriage? Are you saying Democrats are bigots and religous zealots? Does that mean that they would lose elections as a result? Also are you accusing Obama of lying about religous beliefs to better his political career? Is that the type of man you believe Obama is? And if so is that really the type of person you want in the White House.

Come now my self appointed Patriot? Please continue to put your other foot in your mouth.

JMC"And I sure as ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

JMC

"And I sure as fuck don't have to answer any questions I don't feel like answering"
..
"I'm going to clip my nails then it's off to the movies. have a nice day :)
"

In other words JMC realized just how big of a hole he was in and decided it was better to stop digging than to act like his idol Nancy Pelosi.

ha ha ha ha ha ha..<p... (Below threshold)
914:

ha ha ha ha ha ha..

JMc.. come bac....We love u.. We will never forget u

The issue of gay marriage c... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

The issue of gay marriage cuts across party lines with many groups strongly identified as democrats voting against gay marriage such as blacks and union workers. The growing population of Mexican immigrants in California typically support democrats, but given that 67% are catholic and another 4% are Protestant and Evangelical, they too likely oppose gay marriage.

Yes, I expect that in time gay marriage will become normal as will polygamy and even what we consider paedophilia today will be accepted in society. Civilizations raise out of the lawless muck on a set of principles to which conservatives try to hold onto, but human nature being what it is progressively drags society back into the lawless muck. Civilizations rise and fall in this cycle because the one thing we can't get away from is human nature. With few exceptions the global civilization is now in the decline phase of the cycle just as predicted, but this time there'll be no one coming out the other side.

914, before you accuse othe... (Below threshold)
Herman:

914, before you accuse other people of being stupid, make sure you'll be able to pass your next grammar examination, so that the other children at school don't leave you yourself behind.

"Thats right" -- 914

914, isn't there something that's supposed to go between the "t" and the "s"? What's it called?

Please note that my original post referred to the youth vote and to the elderly vote. So there's no need for me to consider the age range 35-65.

Before I go, I leave you this quote of yours, 914, to try to correct the grammar, in preparing for your next grammar exam:

"Your the bigot" -- 914

Do your best, 914, to find that missing verb.

Hermie........ and the blac... (Below threshold)
ran:

Hermie........ and the black vote was?

HermanWe all type ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Herman

We all type fast and use shortcuts on the net. Before you criticize others about grammer may I suggest you proofread your own.

"so that the other children at school don't leave you yourself behind."

Not that I am loquacious or anything.


First JMC ties himself up i... (Below threshold)
retired military:

First JMC ties himself up in knots and takes off running like a rabbit in front of the hounds and now Herman takes off criticizing folks about grammer utilizing bad grammar.

In your case JMC there is n... (Below threshold)
914:

In your case JMC there is nothing between the "t" thought and the "s" thought accept empty grey matter.. And even that is being "spongebobbed" for being devoid of thought..

I don't believe this matter... (Below threshold)

I don't believe this matter is settled at all.
I believe the court took the easy way out by allowing the 18,000 existing gay marriages to stand.

Allowing the 18,000 existing marriages to stand assures that this issue is not at all settled and it will be revisited.

Miss CA said it correctly, ... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

Miss CA said it correctly, marriage is between a man and woman. If the gays don't like it, TS.

57We agree again..... (Below threshold)
914:

57

We agree again...

The thing that gets bypasse... (Below threshold)
Weegie:

The thing that gets bypassed in all the discussion is the fact that Prop 8 type amendments to state constitutions have come about because of judicial activism that forced this upon other states.

The basic fact is that it is not a civil rights issue. It is a social issue, thus making it subject to the will of the voters and their elected representatives, rather than being a whimsical decision by tyrants in black robes.

Yes, I do think that eventually, it will be decided to be acceptable to the people and voted in as a legal right, as we slouch towards Gomorrah. But it is important that it is a vote of the people, not the dictate of a rogue court.

The original court decision was a usurpation of the peoples' right to shape their society. This recent decision is the correct one - where the court is following the rule of law and the constitution.

The importance of this decision is less about gay marriage than it is about our right to govern ourselves, and not be oppressed by judicial tyrants.

I do believe a lot of "rump... (Below threshold)
G.:

I do believe a lot of "rump rangers" are pissed off today.

Well, I could accu... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Well, I could accuse the likes of you of being an open and tolerent (sic) person. But we both know that's not true! :)

We could also accuse the likes of you of being an excellent educator with an above average level of intelligence, but you have proven over and over again just how untrue that is! *smilies all around!

"We will never forget u"</p... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"We will never forget u"

914-

As soon as he showed up here again, I said, "Oh, yeah, that guy again! The logic expert."

Herman,Because someo... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Herman,
Because someone voted one way at 18 is no indicator of how they will vote at 50.

I voted for Clinton and openly campaigned for Democrats back when. If he is to be believed, BryanD voted for Reagan.

"Obama, voiced his oppos... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

"Obama, voiced his opposition to prop 8 in fact. However both are pragmatic politicians, they won't vocalize there support until it politically safe to do so."

And this is your excuse for Obama and Clinton?

Wow.

Lame.

First, Obama's opposition to prop 8 is directly in line with his opinion of any constitution; federal OR state.

Second, "pragmatic"? How about poll-driven? Populist-inclined? I can think of a few more.

The nutso who said the repu... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

The nutso who said the republicans are behind on issues. Like going ahead with freeing the slaves, saving millions of acres of wilderness from development, creating the EPA, being critical to the passing of the Civil Rights Act, etc. What do dems do: Give money away. That is their only game. ww

Imagine that. Voters have r... (Below threshold)
OLDPUPPYMAX:

Imagine that. Voters have rights in Kalifornia. The dems are going to have to keep working on that, huh?

In other words JM... (Below threshold)
jmc:
In other words JMC realized just how big of a hole he was in and decided it was better to stop digging than to act like his idol Nancy Pelosi

Actually I realized what a hole you were and decided I'd had enough for one day. I love how you guys get all upset though when I don't stick around to point out your stupidity and bigotry. As though I should spend my whole day with you. sad really. I'm sorry 914, I just couldn't bear to miss a good movie. Even at the price of continuing to make you look foolish.
depp=true
notiz=He's back to pulling toenails from his teeth.

I think the decision is a t... (Below threshold)
Michael:

I think the decision is a travesty, how can one group of gay & lesbians be allowed to remain married and everyone else be denied. This is singling out a minority for 1) special treatment and 2) the other for discrimination. Makes no sense.
The GLBT community and friends through out the US and the world should BOYCOTT california and the residents of Ca. should BOYCOTT the businesses and organizations that supported prop 8.
The constitution reads "All men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" it does NOT say this is limited to heterosexual only, or whites only, but ALL MEN.
If 18,000 gays that are being allowed to remain married doesn't destroy the institution of marriage, then allowing all GLBT to marry won't either. GET A LIFE!
Respectfully submitted.
Michael

We could also acc... (Below threshold)
jmc:
We could also accuse the likes of you of being an excellent educator with an above average level of intelligence, but you have proven over and over again just how untrue that is! *smilies all around!

Translation: Whenever I argue with JMC he keeps puling all that logic stuff on me, and since I'm not as good at it as he is (and frankly don't understand it) I will try to make it pejorative.


Lamedusa also believes there is a librul conspiracy to destroy the dollar so that we will be forced to accept Mexicans in our life. We will all share a common currency called the Amero. He says this because he values being an uneducated buffoon.

I love how you guy... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
I love how you guys get all upset though when I don't stick around to point out your stupidity and bigotry.

You desperately want to be "caught" and liked, don't you? You can't even take a sarcastic remark and accept that you and your pseudo intellect are just not missed. "Look at me! Look at me! You want me here, don't you?"

Uh, no. Delusion appears to be your very best friend.

Lamedusa also believes t... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Lamedusa also believes there is a librul conspiracy...

There is nothing "librul" about a conspiracy, jmc, which proves how ignorant you really are. You just don't listen, and you will be one of many that wonder what happened when your "money" has no value any more. Dummy. You keep going back to that same thing each time, restating it differently so you don't even know what you are talking about any more.

He says this becau... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
He says this because he values being an uneducated buffoon.

Another thing you keep ignoring is that I am a she and not a he. You are so traumatized by the fact that just about every female, including me, who comments here has intelligence way beyond your high school drop out level. You don't even know the real definition of half the "big words" you use.

Another thing you... (Below threshold)
jmc:
Another thing you keep ignoring is that I am a she and not a he. You are so traumatized by the fact that just about every female, including me, who comments here has intelligence way beyond your high school drop out level. You don't even know the real definition of half the "big words" you use.

It's just not important for me to remember what you are. As for my education level, just think whatever yours is; add about 8 years of schooling, and you'll have mine.
depp=true
notiz=Oh yeah, I'm a 9 year old IT!


There is nothing ... (Below threshold)
jmc:
There is nothing "librul" about a conspiracy, jmc, which proves how ignorant you really are. You just don't listen, and you will be one of many that wonder what happened when your "money" has no value any more. Dummy. You keep going back to that same thing each time, restating it differently so you don't even know what you are talking about any more.

I know it's a moronic theory with no evidence. Just the kind, a nut like you would embrace.
depp=true
notiz=jmc is reaching a disemvoweled record!

You desperately w... (Below threshold)
jmc:
You desperately want to be "caught" and liked, don't you? You can't even take a sarcastic remark and accept that you and your pseudo intellect are just not missed.

Better to have a psuedo intellect then no intellect.

Better to have a p... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Better to have a psuedo (sic) intellect then no intellect.

See? You just don't *get* all those big words:

1.pseudo-intellectual

1. One who attempts to flex intellect that does not exist within his or her own mind.

2. Can probably be found with a thesaurus in hand, while in a chat room, looking up new insults that are synonymous with "stupid" in order to boost his or her own undeserved ego.

Man. It's like I work in d... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Man. It's like I work in day care again...
Little rug rats looking for any attention, even negative attention.

One who attempts... (Below threshold)
jmc:
One who attempts to flex intellect that does not exist within his or her own mind.

No: not in any degree or manner; not at all (used with a comparative): He is no better.

So what is better? To have less intelect than what one beleives, or to have a complete absense of intellect?

I said better to be a psuedo intellect than to have no intellect.

Thanks for once again proving you are buffoon who doesn't understand basic reasoning.

:)

"add about 8 years of schoo... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"add about 8 years of schooling, and you'll have mine."

Wow, and it took eight years for you to get to that level of illiteracy.

77. Posted by SCSIwuzzy ~ LOL!

"I said better to be a psue... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"I said better to be a psuedo (sic) intellect than to have no intellect."

No, jmc. Pretentiousness is definitely not better, and it's your ego that consistently gets in the way of having any true intellect.

JMCStill no respon... (Below threshold)
retired military:

JMC

Still no response (not surprising).

Is Obama a religous zealot since you claim religous zealots oppose gay marriage and Obama has stated that his religion is one reason why he is opposed to gay marriage.

And again let me make sure I understand your point in post 24. You state that Obama and Hillary are lying about being for gay marriage for political reasons. That was your contention. Since they are democrats does that mean that democrats wont vote for them if they are for gay marriage? Are you saying Democrats are bigots and religous zealots? Does that mean that they would lose elections as a result? Also are you accusing Obama of lying about religous beliefs to better his political career? Is that the type of man you believe Obama is? And if so is that really the type of person you want in the White House.
Come now my self appointed Patriot? Please continue to put your other foot in your mouth

I dont expect you to answer any of the aboe questions because it would show what a fool you are.


"Whenever I argue with JMC he keeps puling all that logic stuff on me, and since I'm not as good at it as he is (and frankly don't understand it) I will try to make it pejorative"

Yes JMC your logic goes like this.

If you are opposed to gay marriage you are a bigot except of course Obama and Hillary.

If you are opposed to gay marriage you are a religous zealot except of course Obama.

Democrat politicians cant come out for gay marriage because if they did it would hurt their chances to get elected but they will once it is politically feasible to do so. And it is okay for them to front their religion for political purposes. They are therefore imminently qualified to be President and Sec of State.

Great logic there.

Yep you prove yourself a bigger ass every post JMC.

I expect another nonanswer to the questions above since you cant remove your foot long enough from your mouth to come up with anything else, Mr Patriot.

The very best thing about t... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

The very best thing about this post is that fact that Prop 8 has been upheld.

No, jmc. Pretenti... (Below threshold)
jmc:
No, jmc. Pretentiousness is definitely not better, and it's your ego that consistently gets in the way of having any true intellect.

Uh Yes, LaMed. Pretentious person not as smart as they think are (psuedo-intellect) vs Person with no ability to think at all (No intellect)

A psuedo intellect is not good but it is better than what you have. it your absense of brains that seems to get in your way. All I have to do is check my ego. You're screwed.

Still no response (not surp... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Still no response (not surprising).


Post 24. moron. I responded to you in post 24. THen I responded to Lamed. I know this is hard for you to grasp but I can only respond to one moron at a time. You have to wait your turn before I demonstrate what an ass you are.


And again let me make sure I understand your point in post 24. You state that Obama and Hillary are lying about being for gay marriage for political reasons.

I think they have pushed for gay rights while bigots like yourself have pushed back against gay rights. They have not done as much as I would like but they are leading the fight. Just at a slower pace than I would like. Bigots like you try to stop it dead in its tracks.

Are you saying Democrats are bigots and religous zealots? Does that mean that they would lose elections as a result?

No, I'm saying you are a religious zealot.
They are politicans who push for reform as best as they think is politically possible.

Also are you accusing Obama of lying about religous beliefs to better his political career? Is that the type of man you believe Obama is? And if so is that really the type of person you want in the White House.

Well when my options are him and people like Bush who are sadist who implement torture, start wars that kill tens of thousands with countries that didn't attack us, and lie to us to get us there, then sure, I'll take Obama over that.


Come now my self appointed Patriot? Please continue to put your other foot in your mouth

Looks like I just put my foot in your mouth Mr. nationalist.


I dont expect you to answer any of the aboe questions because it would show what a fool you are.

Well, anyone who would take the time to talk to a moron like you is certainly foolish. Lord knows you are nothing but an aging gas-bag with the brains of mentally damaged 4 year old. Still, I have a soft enough heart that i will on occasion take the time to educate you and hopefully lead you away from your hatred and bigotry.

If you are opposed to gay marriage you are a bigot except of course Obama and Hillary.

When you work against a group getting rights you are a bigot. When you work for groups getting rights you are not. Obama came out against prop 8. So in the matter in question he was not on the side of the bigots.


If you are opposed to gay marriage you are a religous zealot except of course Obama.

Most of you are religious zealots. I take it that is why you oppose it.


Democrat politicians cant come out for gay marriage because if they did it would hurt their chances to get elected but they will once it is politically feasible to do so. And it is okay for them to front their religion for political purposes. They are therefore imminently qualified to be President and Sec of State.


Over someone who lied to get is into a way? That's not even close.

Great logic there.

You wouldn't know. You don't understand what logic is or what it's purpose is.

Yep you prove yourself a bigger ass every post JMC.

Actually I prove you a bigger ass with every post. It's quite easy.

I expect another nonanswer to the questions above since you cant remove your foot long enough from your mouth to come up with anything else, Mr Patriot.

See what I mean Lamed? I don't post for a while or do other things sad fools like RM start crying that I'm not responding to him.
depp=true
notiz=Gutted like a catfish nailed to a tree.

A psuedo intellect... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
A psuedo intellect is not good but it is better than what you have. it your absense of brains that seems to get in your way. All I have to do is check my ego. You're screwed.

No, that's not all you have to do, is check your (undeserved) ego. You need to learn how to spell pseudo and absence and the meanings of the words. But what would be really nice is if you would stop coming back here to waste bandwidth while you do it.

See what I mean Lamed? I don't post for a while or do other things sad fools like RM start crying that I'm not responding to him.

Says, "delusion", your best friend. I guarantee you, jmc, you were the last thing on rm's mind until you came back to display your b.s. Then, he thought he would ask you a question you refused to answer before because you had "a movie" to go to. I can also imagine your brain constantly finds itself in a movie, even if you're not at the theatre. What better way to escape the headache of reasoning?

Marriage may not be a right... (Below threshold)
Jess:

Marriage may not be a right but if some people are allowed it and others aren't, that's a fundamental problem. Luckily, now voters can decide whether or not same-sex marriage is legal since Prob 8 is so narrowly defined.
This video shows some of today's commentary on the subject.
http://www.newsy.com/videos/california_decision_good_for_same_sex_marriage

It's never been about gay m... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

It's never been about gay marriage, but an agenda to create moral friction and revenue. If gays really want to get married, they can go to another state. If marrying their partner is the core of their complaint, they can do it elsewhere, in a state where it's legal.

Many health plans are set up in a way that the primary policy holder can include a life partner, so that's not a problem either. Legalities aren't at the center any more, because all people have to do is understand the laws that are available now. Whether it's a living will or estate planning, if you understand well enough what laws are in place, there is no need for tax payers to spend more money to get a new law.

You need to learn... (Below threshold)
jmc:
You need to learn how to spell pseudo and absence and the meanings of the words.

I need to learn how to spell the meanings of the words as well? Might check your grammar there my oafish friend.

But what would be really nice is if you would stop coming back here to waste bandwidth while you do it.

What would be even better if is if you enrolled in a comunity college, learned a little bit about logic and then came back yourself. Might keep you from looking like such a dunce.


Says, "delusion", your best friend.

Bet you an Amero I'm not delusional.


I guarantee you, jmc, you were the last thing on rm's mind until you came back to display your b.s.

He responded to me. I was stating my opinon on a free an open site.


Then, he thought he would ask you a question you refused to answer before because you had "a movie" to go to.

Actually I answered it before the movie. Not that the facts are your strong suit. Ms. Amero.


I can also imagine your brain constantly finds itself in a movie, even if you're not at the theatre. What better way to escape the headache of reasoning?

and I know your brain does this:
"-------------------------------------------------------------------------------"

brain dead.

jmc, such anger.Do y... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

jmc, such anger.
Do you always take everything so personally?

jmc, such anger.... (Below threshold)
jmc:
jmc, such anger. Do you always take everything so personally?

Gosh you'd never see anger or insults from the other side.


"Yep you prove yourself a bigger ass every post JMC."

"Says, 'delusion', your best friend. I guarantee you, jmc, you were the last thing on rm's mind until you came back to display your b.s. "

"There is nothing "librul" about a conspiracy, jmc, which proves how ignorant you really are."

"JMC You coward...Go run away now"

"Better to have a psuedo... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

"Better to have a psuedo intellect then no intellect."

pseudo
than

"I said better to be a psuedo intellect than to have no intellect."

pseudo (and no, that's NOT what you said)

You know, I might have the occasional typo, but then, I'm not the one bragging that I have eight years more education than someone else I think I can lord it over.

"Post 24. moron. I responde... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"Post 24. moron. I responded to you in post 24. THen I responded to Lamed. I know this is hard for you to grasp but I can only respond to one moron at a time. You have to wait your turn before I demonstrate what an ass you are."

Jmc
You answered post 28 with Post 24?? My how acute answering questions before they are asked.

And again let me make sure I understand your point in post 24. You state that Obama and Hillary are lying about being for gay marriage for political reasons.

"I think they have pushed for gay rights while bigots like yourself have pushed back against gay rights."

Actually I have done nothing about gay rights except to speak out against gay marriage on this board. Whereas Obama and Hillary as Presidential candidates have both spoken out against gay marriage. They are now actually in a position to do something about gay marriage (Obama moreso than Hillary). Obama could even try to sign an Executive Order

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/the_state_worker/090129%20SEIU%20PERB%20file%202.pdf

"The purpose of an executive order is to "execute" the laws;"

Granted that is a California case but Obama could theoretically state that he is only executing the laws concerning equal rights. And he is after all President now so he could come out for gay marriage now yet he hasnt? The question is why not? It isnt like he will lose votes now is it?

" They have not done as much as I would like but they are leading the fight."

By coming out against gay marriage. That is leading from the rear isn't it? Something you sound like you know a whole lot about.

" Just at a slower pace than I would like."

If they went any slower and it would be backwards.

" Bigots like you try to stop it dead in its tracks. "

Again, I have done nothing to stop gay marriage but speak out against it on this board.

"No, I'm saying you are a religious zealot. "

Really and you know this how? Where have I intoned I was against gay marriage for religious reasons? Do I go to church? Do you know what religion I am or even if I practise a religion?

"They are politicans who push for reform as best as they think is politically possible. "


Per your words they lied to get elected. I can see why you would support them for that. It is usually the only way democrats can win, lying about their values and stances on issues as proven by Obama so superbly this last election with all the lies he told.


"Well when my options are him and people like Bush who are sadist who implement torture, start wars that kill tens of thousands with countries that didn't attack us, and lie to us to get us there, then sure, I'll take Obama over that. "

Really Bush is a sadist? You know this how? Because he authorized waterboarding only after checking to see if it was legal? If you want true sadist go walk through Nancy Pelosi's district you will find a ton of them.
Also if you look at the stats of people in Iraq dying before we went into Iraq and afterwards Bush saved Iraqi lives. Also do you honestly think that Saddam wouldn't have attacked us if he a chance?

As for lying. Umm what lie? The lie that Obama and Hillary told about gay marriage? You seem to have no problem with that lie even if it slows down the pace of gay marriage being made legal.

If you mean WMD, everyone and their brother thought Saddam had WMD except for idiots like you. Both Bill and Hillary, Kerry, Gore, Albright, Edwards all stated Saddam had WMD. Are they liars as well? Or are they being "Pragmatic politicians who will say any lie to get elected" like your hero Obama?


"Looks like I just put my foot in your mouth Mr. nationalist."

Now you see if you would take your head out of Obama's lying ass then you would see you stuck it in your own mouth insead of mine.


"Well, anyone who would take the time to talk to a moron like you is certainly foolish. Lord knows you are nothing but an aging gas-bag with the brains of mentally damaged 4 year old. Still, I have a soft enough heart that i will on occasion take the time to educate you and hopefully lead you away from your hatred and bigotry. "

I don't hate anyone JMC and the last thing that I would be described as by the people who know me is the word bigot. And if mentally damanged 4 year olds have IQs of 150+ then I guess they are doing pretty good. But there was one statement you made in there that rings true. You are foolish.

"When you work against a group getting rights you are a bigot."

You have stated that folks are bigots simply for stating they are opposed to gay marriage. You have done it numerous times in this thread. You called me a bigot in a previous thread when you brought up the subject of gay marriage - I hadnt even mentioned it.

"When you work for groups getting rights you are not. Obama came out against prop 8. "

But he stated that he was against gay marriage. That kind evens things out. And umm Hillary what has she done lately?

"Most of you are religious zealots. I take it that is why you oppose it."

Now above you stated it positively now you are stating it as maybe. Keep changing your story. But you failed to answer the question. Try to read it really slow so that you understand it.

Since Obama stated he was against gay marriage for religious reasons is he, in your opinion, a religious zealot?

Try a yes or no answer instead of the usual line of bullshit that you spout.

"Over someone who lied to get is into a way? That's not even close. "

I am sorry your message didn't come through quite clear here. Let me give my remark again so you can try to answer it again. I will even break it up for you into bite sized pieces.

Per your statement Democrat politicians cant come out for gay marriage because if they did it would hurt their chances to get elected. You call this being a pragmatic politician.

But those politicians will come out for it once it is politically feasible to do so.

Nice to see they can't run in an election on what they truly believe in for fear of the voters not voting for them. That kinda shoots your theory that gay marriage is gaining popularity doesnt it?

And it is okay for them to front their religion for political purposes as Obama did with his statement oultlined above.

They are therefore imminently qualified to be President and Sec of State in your opinion correct? Since they lied about their stance on the issue.

Again Great logic there.

"You wouldn't know. You don't understand what logic is or what it's purpose is. "

As your statement shows your logic is beyond anyone's comprehension but yours.

"Actually I prove you a bigger ass with every post. It's quite easy. "

But I still have a long way to go to reach your level.

"See what I mean Lamed? I don't post for a while or do other things sad fools like RM start crying that I'm not responding to him"

Actually I am surprised that you answered. Just not surprised at the total level of noninformation, ignorance, misinformation, lies, and spaghetti logic of your statements.

"What would be even better if is if you enrolled in a comunity college, learned a little bit about logic and then came back yourself. Might keep you from looking like such a dunce."

Spoken by Mr Spaghetti logic himself.

pseudo (and no, t... (Below threshold)
jmc:
pseudo (and no, that's NOT what you said)

Really? That's not what I said? Because when I look at post 75 this is what I see:

Better to have a pseudo intellect then no intellect.

Were you lying, mistaken, or just too lazy to check?

You know, I might have the occasional typo, but then, I'm not the one bragging that I have eight years more education than someone else I think I can lord it over.

Well, it's lucky for me they've invented a spelling checker. Until they invent a thinking checker the people I'm lording it over are screwed.
depp=true
notiz=Roasted catfishy buttocks. Trolls r gud! :)

Jmc You answere... (Below threshold)
jmc:
Jmc You answered post 28 with Post 24?? My how acute answering questions before they are asked.

Although recent history may elude you, you asked questions prior to post 24 and then complained I hadn't answered you in post 25. if you are going to contiue to complain about a lack of attention to your posts please be specific about which time you are complaining.

Actually I have done nothing about gay rights except to speak out against gay marriage on this board. Whereas Obama and Hillary as Presidential candidates have both spoken out against gay marriage. They are now actually in a position to do something about gay marriage (Obama moreso than Hillary). Obama could even try to sign an Executive Order

Again there is no doubt Obama could do more. he did however speak out against prop 8. which compared to calling for an amenment to "protect the sanctity of marriage" is quite a lot.

Granted that is a California case but Obama could theoretically state that he is only executing the laws concerning equal rights. And he is after all President now so he could come out for gay marriage now yet he hasnt? The question is why not? It isnt like he will lose votes now is it?

Still more admirable than trying to gain votes by activetly denying gay rights? Question, are you for civil unions? The only Republican I have seen even endorse this idea is John McCain. Obama is not great on this issue but certianly the lesser of evils.


By coming out against gay marriage. That is leading from the rear isn't it? Something you sound like you know a whole lot about.

Uhh, by being for civil unions. By coming out against prop 8. Things many bigots are against.

" Just at a slower pace than I would like."

If they went any slower and it would be backwards.

10 years ago, civil unions didn't exist. Now Iowa has Gay marriage. It's moving faster than social conservatives would like that's for sure. In fact. they have pretty much lost as younger genrations see this a non-sensical argument by the religious right.

Again, I have done nothing to stop gay marriage but speak out against it on this board.

And vote for politicians who propose amenments to the constitution to prohibit it. That's enough.


Really and you know this how? Where have I intoned I was against gay marriage for religious reasons? Do I go to church? Do you know what religion I am or even if I practise a religion?

Well, I suppose you could have other bizarre reasons. However, since most who are against gay marriage take that position because of religious beliefs, I was hedging my bets.


Per your words they lied to get elected. I can see why you would support them for that. It is usually the only way democrats can win, lying about their values and stances on issues as proven by Obama so superbly this last election with all the lies he told.

We know where the weapons of mass destruction are in tikrit. hmm, lying to invade a country vs lying to get elected (not that Republicans lie to get elected I mean Sarah Palin really did say no to the bridge to nowhere (Except when she lobbied for funds for that same bridge and then kept the money.)
http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN3125537020080901

Good thing Republicans are so honest.


Really Bush is a sadist? You know this how? Because he authorized waterboarding only after checking to see if it was legal?

Sure and many ther enhanced interogations that all but a few finge in the US consider torture. certainly Reagan would have considered it such.

If you want true sadist go walk through Nancy Pelosi's district you will find a ton of them.

Nobody getting waterborded in SF.

Also if you look at the stats of people in Iraq dying before we went into Iraq and afterwards Bush saved Iraqi lives. Also do you honestly think that Saddam wouldn't have attacked us if he a chance?

What stats are those? please share. and No Saddam was not suicidal. he would not have attacked the U.S.

As for lying. Umm what lie? The lie that Obama and Hillary told about gay marriage? You seem to have no problem with that lie even if it slows down the pace of gay marriage being made legal.

The lie regarding WMDs which we know are in Tikrit, the lie on the bridge to nowhere, and so on and so on. I could go for days on this.

If you mean WMD, everyone and their brother thought Saddam had WMD except for idiots like you. Both Bill and Hillary, Kerry, Gore, Albright, Edwards all stated Saddam had WMD.


They wern't the ones manipulating intelligence. See the dowing street memo. Bush wanted War and he lied.

Now you see if you would take your head out of Obama's lying ass then you would see you stuck it in your own mouth insead of mine.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1842030,00.html

wow, all those lies.

I don't hate anyone JMC and the last thing that I would be described as by the people who know me is the word bigot. And if mentally damanged 4 year olds have IQs of 150+ then I guess they are doing pretty good. But there was one statement you made in there that rings true. You are foolish.

Well hopefully you will mend your views.


But he stated that he was against gay marriage. That kind evens things out. And umm Hillary what has she done lately?

Obviously he wasn't too against it if he came out against prop 8. Perhaps you can name a Republican who did that?

Since Obama stated he was against gay marriage for religious reasons is he, in your opinion, a religious zealot?

Please provide some evidence of this. I have never heard him state it for religous reasons. However, If you are asking if I will take him over a reublican, absolutely. Let's be honest most Republicans don't even accept the idea of civil unions.

Try a yes or no answer instead of the usual line of bullshit that you spout.

I will when you finally answer my questions. Are you going to avoid them forever?

Per your statement Democrat politicians cant come out for gay marriage because if they did it would hurt their chances to get elected. You call this being a pragmatic politician.

I call it being a politican in America. None of them are completly honest.


Nice to see they can't run in an election on what they truly believe in for fear of the voters not voting for them. That kinda shoots your theory that gay marriage is gaining popularity doesnt it?

No. 25% of the country was for it 20 years ago. Almost 50% are now. Those numbers kinda seem to show that it is gaining in popularity.
More importanlty younger generations are for in overwhelming numbers.

They are therefore imminently qualified to be President and Sec of State in your opinion correct? Since they lied about their stance on the issue.

Compared to the ideal no. Compared to Mccain and Palin and Bush and Cheney Hell yes.

Again Great logic there.

It was pretty good.

As your statement shows your logic is beyond anyone's comprehension but yours.

I have see a good amount of logical fallcies. When they are pointed out it usually just causes anger. It's almost as though a person is bad for insisting that lgocic be observed. There is something fundamentaly irrational about that.


But I still have a long way to go to reach your level.

Don't sell yourself short.

Actually I am surprised that you answered. Just not surprised at the total level of noninformation, ignorance, misinformation, lies, and spaghetti logic of your statements.

Now if only you could demonstrate such a thing.
depp=true
notiz=ABUSE! ABUSE! /Ralph

"Bet you an Amero I'm not d... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"Bet you an Amero I'm not delusional."

Well, if it isn't the blockquote bandwidth bandit. You are an absolute bore, so you must also be getting paid to post obnoxious comments. If you tried this crap anywhere else, you would have been banned in a heartbeat. Unless, of course you got lazy hanging out at Kos, that would explain it. I am almost ready to pull a HughS and demand a better quality troll, but all I have to do is see someone else's comment completely in blockquotes with your useless one-liners, and I know what to skip over. Stupid and more stupid is all you have to offer, so you inflict others with it, hoping their IQ will drop below yours and hit the pavement.

"Although recent history ma... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"Although recent history may elude you, you asked questions prior to post 24 and then complained I hadn't answered you in post 25. "

Yes I did, then I asked a question in post 28, and about 4 more times and you just kept on not answering it. Not my fault if you cant read or comprehend. And yet again you still didn't answer yes or no. DO you consider Obama a religious zealot because he used his religion to come out against gay marriage? Unless you want to fall back on the pragmatic politician angle.

"Again there is no doubt Obama could do more. he did however speak out against prop 8. which compared to calling for an amenment to "protect the sanctity of marriage" is quite a lot."

Obama showed so much bravery when he spoke out against prop 8. I mean taking a chance on ticking off the democratic voters and all.

"Still more admirable than trying to gain votes by activetly denying gay rights? "

And I am denying gay rights how? And oh you mean like how Obama and Hillary did (per your own statements). Once again your foot meets your mouth.

"Question, are you for civil unions? The only Republican I have seen even endorse this idea is John McCain. Obama is not great on this issue but certianly the lesser of evils. "

Actually I don't have a problem with civil unions. Basically so that people get the tax breaks. I don't see any reason why a married couple can get tax breaks and people who aren't married cant name specific people to be beneficiaries of their benefits as long as those benefits are aid for at the same rate of married people.

"Uhh, by being for civil unions. By coming out against prop 8. Things many bigots are against. "

Once again your logic and sense are fading due to your statements not making much sense there. I am against Prop 8 and for civil unions. And again prior to this you called myself and others bigots based solely on the opposition to gay marriage. Changing the bar again as usual.

"10 years ago, civil unions didn't exist. Now Iowa has Gay marriage. It's moving faster than social conservatives would like that's for sure. In fact. they have pretty much lost as younger genrations see this a non-sensical argument by the religious right."

Possibly but the foolishness of youth kinda goes away after having a few years under the belt. This is true of all generations. The same way the youth of the past finally grew up and saw that their parents weren't all that out there after all. Of course some people never grow up.

"And vote for politicians who propose amenments to the constitution to prohibit it. That's enough. "

Actually gay marriage really isn't on my list of considerations when I vote for folks. Abortion is one of my major issues, as well as taxes, govt, and a few others. And what is wrong with proposing an amendment to the constitution? Your side can do it? Oh wait that's right. Any time a vote is actually taken on the subject of gay marriage outside of a court house it loses.

"Well, I suppose you could have other bizarre reasons. However, since most who are against gay marriage take that position because of religious beliefs, I was hedging my bets. "
Why do the reasons have to be bizarre? There are plenty of folks out there with views that don't agree with mine that I don't consider bizarre. You believe that since a person doesn't believe the same as you that their beliefs are bizarre? That is arrogance in the utmost.

"We know where the weapons of mass destruction are in tikrit. hmm, lying to invade a country vs lying to get elected (not that Republicans lie to get elected I mean Sarah Palin really did say no to the bridge to nowhere (Except when she lobbied for funds for that same bridge and then kept the money.)

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN3125537020080901
Good thing Republicans are so honest. "

Oh I didn't say that democrats were the only ones who lied. I just said that democrats cant stand for their beliefs and get elected. Unless of course in some place like San Francisco where they will elect just about anyone. Nancy Pelosi is proof of that. And again a lie is when you don't believe what you are saying. You can believe something and it may be wrong and that doesn't make it a lie. BTW Clinton, Clinton, Albright, Gore, Kerry, Edwards.

"Sure and many ther enhanced interogations that all but a few finge in the US consider torture. certainly Reagan would have considered it such. "

Oh you mean like making them stand up in small rooms and keeping them awake. Give me a break. Dictators the world over are laughing at the liberals on this issue. And I believe the polls show that most folks don't think waterboarding is torture or at they least supported the use of it. You can say all but a few fringe but that is all it is. You saying it. Which doesn't mean much.

"Nobody getting waterborded in SF."
And you know this how? I guess the folks into the whips and chains, paddling, and other assorted S&M practices don't really count.

"What stats are those? please share. and No Saddam was not suicidal. he would not have attacked the U.S. "

He would if he could have gotten away with it and by using surrogates he could have. There have been several studies which show the number of Iraqis who have died under Saddam's rule vs the years during the war. Actually if you look at the people killed after the invasion the vast majority of them were killed by terrorists exploding IEDs and suicide bombings. Are you going to blame Bush for that? Of course the evil mastermind Bush is responsible for all evil in the world isn't he.

"The lie regarding WMDs which we know are in Tikrit, the lie on the bridge to nowhere, and so on and so on. I could go for days on this. "

I hadn't seen the link about the WMDs in Tikrit. Care to share from a reliable source. And I could care less about the bridge to nowhere except Stevens should have been kicked out long long ago. If you want to talk about lies shall we talk about Obama not posting things on the net for 5 days prior to signing, military tribunals, patriot act, etc. Or how about the dems who got elected in 2006 on the promise of getting us out of Iraq.

"They wern't the ones manipulating intelligence. See the dowing street memo. Bush wanted War and he lied. "

They stated that Saddam had WMDs. All of them. SO if Bush lied by your own logic then they lied as well. And look at the Dueffler report and still claim that Saddam wouldn't have tried to at least attack the US through a surrogate. Shall we discuss Plame next with the dems yelling for blood and perp walks and arrests right up until the time that the person who actually leaked her name became public. Then the dems shut up about all that stuff in a hurry.

"wow, all those lies. - Time article"

And Time is such a fair and balanced magazine isn't it. Shall we discuss Obama and Hillary's statements on gay marriage again?
Yeah thought not.

Oh and the only reason I voted for McCain is that I felt he was only a hair better than Obama. That statement is proven right more and more every day. But only a hair better.

"Well hopefully you will mend your views."
But I like my views and since I am such an old codger at 49 years old I doubt my views will be changed much.

"Obviously he wasn't too against it if he came out against prop 8. Perhaps you can name a Republican who did that? "

Cant think of one and don't even want to google it to find out. Again I could care less. I don't care if the entire elected Republican party voted against prop 8. It wouldn't affect my views one bit.
"Please provide some evidence of this. I have never heard him state it for religous reasons.
However, If you are asking if I will take him over a reublican, absolutely. Let's be honest most Republicans don't even accept the idea of civil unions. "

I gave you the quote above.

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/BarackObama.htm

First site on google that I found.

"Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.""

So again. Is he a religious zealot? Never mind if he was the better of the 2 choices. You have used the term religious zealot several times and above even stated that is the reason that the most folks are opposed to gay marriage.

"I will when you finally answer my questions.

Are you going to avoid them forever?"

Please point out a question you asked that I haven't answered.

"I call it being a politican in America. None of them are completly honest." "No. 25% of the country was for it 20 years ago. Almost 50% are now. Those numbers kinda seem to show that it is gaining in popularity.
More importanlty younger generations are for in overwhelming numbers."

Yet just 4 years ago about 30 states had it on the ballot and it was overwhelming defeated.

"Compared to the ideal no. Compared to Mccain and Palin and Bush and Cheney Hell yes."

Well Bush and Cheney weren't running. But at least you answered that question.

"It was pretty good."

Only in your own mind.

"I have see a good amount of logical fallcies.
When they are pointed out it usually just causes anger. It's almost as though a person is bad for insisting that lgocic be observed. There is something fundamentaly irrational about that."

You are an expert at logical fallacies I will give you that.

"Don't sell yourself short."

Oh I don't. It is just that you set the bar so very very high in that particular subject.

"Now if only you could demonstrate such a thing."

Sadly for you I have .

If I had known you were goi... (Below threshold)
retired military:

If I had known you were going to devowel him I wouldnt have quoted so much. LOL.

RM, Succeeding in g... (Below threshold)

RM,
Succeeding in getting laughter at
him being like a catfish nailed to
a tree, gutted, and headed for a fry
daddy is a good thing.
Oh and still seeing s/he, it, picking
its' toenails from its teeth

I voted for Clinton a... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

I voted for Clinton and openly campaigned for Democrats back when. If he is to be believed, BryanD voted for Reagan.

Hell, I voted for Carter, so I think I've got you beat, SCSIwuzzy...

But, you learn from your mistakes. Didn't make THAT one again...

Actually, jmc, in your very... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Actually, jmc, in your very first comment in this thread you called someone a bigot and inferred homophobia.

When you walk into a room angry, don't be shocked when it's pointed out.




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