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Not With A Bang But A Whimper

Its been three days since President Obama gave his much hyped speech to the world's muslim population.

How'd it go?

(sound of crickets chirping)

The speech, consisting of gilded words and inflated rhetoric, was rife with historical inaccuracies and light on material importance.

Impotent does not begin to describe it.

News outlets are having a hard time finding any actual muslims who were impressed, moved, or otherwise awake for it. Other than a few Arab leaders paying polite lip service, no noteworthy impact has been felt at all.

Mr. Obama's speech was a failure.

That is, however, unless its original intent was to further drive a wedge between the U.S. and Israel, who he effectively tossed under the bus.

This speech was less about muslims and the "rift' between the west and them as it was about trying to bind Arabs together in unison to condemn Israel on the flimsy issue of settlement construction.

His comments on Iran were few and hollow, often submissive in tone, and conciliatory in nature.

Obama actually believes that if there is a "peace" between Israel and the Palestinians, he will have leverage over Iran and its nuclear ambitions.

Iran does not care a lick about peace in the region. It wants to be the main player. The destruction of the Jewish state is at the top of the list, and no amount of warmed over offerings from a verbose Obama is going to change that.

There was no evidence presented in Obama's speech that he is going to attempt a significant push at stopping Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and power. As such, he has shown that he expects and accepts Iran obtaining this power, thus anticipating a policy of containment, and not non-proliferation.

A gutless stance by a neophyte politician.

This trip was an abject failure for Obama.

No amount of spin from his fawning media can convince otherwise.

Next time, he should crack open a history book before making an ass out of himself.

And his country.


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Comments (69)

What is most interesting is... (Below threshold)
Brett:

What is most interesting is the fact that the media is *not* fawning over him this time. Even the most extreme liberal idiots see this as, at best, a meaningless and hollow position. And I can almost guarantee that there are a bunch of Jewish people in New York and elsewhere experiencing extreme "buyers remorse" about now.

His comments on Ir... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:
His comments on Iran were few and hallow, often submissive in tone, and conciliatory in nature.

Not to nitpick... but it's HOLLOW, not hallow.

How'd it go?Oh, wo... (Below threshold)
jim x:

How'd it go?

Oh, woops: sounds like something other than crickets chirping.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_lebanon_elections

"BEIRUT - Lebanon's pro-Western coalition declared victory early Monday, as local television stations reported the faction had successfully fended off a serious challenge by the Shiite militant group Hezbollah and its allies to grab the majority in parliament.

...The election was an early test of President Barack Obama's efforts to forge Middle East peace. A win by Hezbollah would have boosted the influence of its backers Iran and Syria and risked pushing one of the region's most volatile nations into international isolation and possibly into more conflict with Israel."

But I'm sure that won't count for some reason. After all, that might indicate Obama did something worthy and actually might be good.

In his Inaugural Address on... (Below threshold)

In his Inaugural Address on January 20, 1961, John F. Kennedy put the world on notice:

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

Fast forward to June 4, 2009...Cairo, Egypt. A new American President puts the world on notice again...a different notice, and totalitarian regimes worldwide breathed a sigh of relief. Barak Obama:

"I know there has been controversy about the promotion of democracy in recent years, and much of this controversy is connected to the war in Iraq. So let me be clear: No system of government can or should be imposed by one nation by any other...America does not presume to know what is best for everyone"

jim x...HEY! This happened ... (Below threshold)

jim x...HEY! This happened too:

BRUSSELS - Conservatives raced toward victory in some of Europe's largest economies Sunday as initial results and exit polls showed voters punishing left-leaning parties in European parliament elections in France, Germany and elsewhere.

Wow! Obama musta done that too!! He's some kind a wonderful!!

jim x, Exactly how... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

jim x,

Exactly how do you figure that the Lebanese voting to not install a Hezbollah gov't... just like they've been resisting them for YEARS... is suddenly Kudo's for Obama?

To me, this news sounds more like a victory for the Lebanese trying to get back to the way their nation was way back when... and not for Obama.

But I'm guessing you're a card carrying Kool-aide drinker, and you'll attribute the sun successfully rising every day to Obama's policies.

Wait a minute, here! our s... (Below threshold)
Codekeyguy Author Profile Page:

Wait a minute, here! our supreme POTUS, our royal and illustrious God, ONLY SPEAKS IN MUNIFICENT IDEAS! Your denigration of his elloquence is BLASPHMOUS. ( I'm so worked up at your evil spoutings, I'm mispelling myself all over.(couldn't resist pricking pomposity!!!!!

jim x, Let's give cr... (Below threshold)

jim x,
Let's give credit due where it is due.
The Lebanese people are the ones who defeated
the terrorists efforts
They came from all over the world to vote.
Not Obama nor the US government.

As far as the speech, what ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

As far as the speech, what did everyone expect from President Empty Suit? As for the 'sudden' change is voting patterns? Let's be real, those changes were coming regardless of what Barry had to say. The NK's are shooting off missiles and Barry says he's starting to get pissed. The Iranians are still processing uranium, and Barry has all but given his blessing. Surprised he just doesn't given them a couple of nukes in order to be 'fair'.

I must give credit where it... (Below threshold)
Burt:

I must give credit where it is due. President Obama did say in his speech: (under issue 4, democracy) "the people yearn for a government that is transparent and that does not steal from the people". Sounds like he is beginning to understand the message from the TEA parties.

Is this the new Wizbang tem... (Below threshold)
jp2:

Is this the new Wizbang template?

Randomly strung words with no facts nor connection between them? And a serious case of the bitters? Never mind the content (low), but just from a writing perspective this is embarrassing.

Jim x (marks the spot)-... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Jim x (marks the spot)-

The real idea behind Obama's speech was to "capture the hearts of the Egyptians". It doesn't surprise me that your blog handle would miss that tiny little detail, and what it means on a global scale. But it's really cool to quote something and post the link, isn't it?

jp2,You could alwa... (Below threshold)
MichaelC:

jp2,

You could always do everyone a favor and just take your hate and go. Nobody will miss you and you will not have to be so perturbed at our shallowness.

Speaking of embarrassment, best get used to it. There's still 3 and half more years before we can throw the jerk out.

"There's still 3 and half m... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"There's still 3 and half more years before we can throw the jerk out."

LOL! Or his teleprompter and unicorn say, "Screw this crap!" and go riding off into the sunset.

I agree JP2,I read... (Below threshold)
Michael Hess:

I agree JP2,

I read through the comments and none really touched on reality, just a bunch of hyperbole and at least one personal attack.

Jim x was taken to task personally for simply providing information where at least one news outlet is reporting President Obama's speech in Cairo may have had an effect on the election in Lebanon.

The point of the article itself is absurd and about as valid as any tabloid.

The world press is and has been writing and talking about and posting stories that are quite positive about Obama's Cairo speech, and that apparently has some people upset.

It is astounding that some idiots such as the writer of this article would have the temerity to claim the President of the United States is making "an ass out of himself" and commenters here just blithely swallow that down makes me more nervous than some nebulous threat of a jihadi under my bed.

The president is a puppet, ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

The president is a puppet, Michael Hess. Obama's speech has no effect on Lebanese voting. He is there to "enthrall" the Egyptians, because it's their influence that is being instilled in the western culture. You don't think them "Roly Poly Fish heads" are just for decoration, do you? Wake up, now. Obama is not Lebanon's E.F. Hutton.

Micheal Hess - I was also i... (Below threshold)
jp2:

Micheal Hess - I was also intrigued by the Lebanese press coverage which seemed like the only news event that could possibly be tied our President's tour. The country is celebrating so it seems somewhat unexpected.

Andrew Sullivan wrote a nice piece on it for the Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6446495.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2

The US President is a puppe... (Below threshold)

The US President is a puppet of who LaMedusa?

The rest of your post is simply incomprehensible. Maybe somebody else can make something out of it.

You seem to be answering something out of your own head and not anything written here.

"The US President is a pupp... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"The US President is a puppet of who LaMedusa?"

You can't be that naive, and not know that Obama was hand picked by Zbiggy decades ago, as were Clinton and the others.

"You seem to be answering something out of your own head and not anything written here."

Answering what out of my own head, Michael? You really need to start reading the news other than the msm. Google Obama and the Egyptians under news, and you will see what was really accomplished with his speech in Cairo. You are going to have to dig a little deeper with the "fish heads" and "E.F.Hutton", because that might be before your time. Did you come over here from Kos or Salon?

So... 1 paper writes a stor... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

So... 1 paper writes a story, and you swallow the story with no critical thinking at all? I personally recall that this has been ongoing for quite some time... so my interest being piqued... I did some research and refreshed my memory.

On Feb 14, 2005, Rafiq Hariri was assassinated. This touched off a series of events, including the Cedar Revolution, a few armed conflicts, the withdrawl of Syrians from Lebanon. All of this has culminated with the elections you cite.

Now, color me silly if I were to draw the conclusion that all this stuff, going on since 2005, has anything to do with a single speech Barry O. just finished delivering.

Do me a favor. Put down the Kool-Aid, digest and actually THINK about what you read, and THEN draw your own conclusions. Don't just swallow the analysis of some reporter who probably has a lefty leaning, and quite possibly has the analysis wrong.

michael hess - "Jim x w... (Below threshold)
marc:

michael hess - "Jim x was taken to task personally for simply providing information where at least one news outlet is reporting President Obama's speech in Cairo may have had an effect on the election in Lebanon."

No he was taken to task for posting an outlier in an attempt to show obama had an effect on that election, and in doing so did nothing to show the cause and effect.

And neither did you.

And OH! What a freaking shock the world's media have printed fawning articles about The "O", so what, and the sky is blue.

But not everyone has been hoodwinked.

Die Zeit, Germany for example: "What about the content, however? When deducting the dazzling outside, one can clearly detect that Barack Obama was strong at answering the weak questions about the Western relationship with the Muslim world. His appearance was much weaker, however, when asked more difficult questions concerning the conflicts in the Middle East."


United Daily News, Taiwan - "Obama refrained from employing the appropriate language of foreign diplomacy and advocating a meaningless message of peace. "

jp2 - "Andrew Sullivan ... (Below threshold)
marc:

jp2 - "Andrew Sullivan wrote a nice piece on it for the Times:"

Let me guess, he also figured a way to put "Trig is Sarah's kid" into the article as well.

That's some source you got there, a delusional nutcake

OK, so let me get this stra... (Below threshold)
Jim X:

OK, so let me get this straight:

1. If nothing good occurred in the Middle East in the past 3 days, that proves Obama's speech was ineffective and he is in an abject failure.

2. If anything good did happen in the Middle East in the past 3 days, it can't be at all due to Obama's speech, therefore he's an abject failure.

3. And, I am pretty sure that if anything bad happened in the Middle East in the past 3 days, that would be **because of** Obama's speech, and that would prove he was an abject failure.

4. Oh, and pointing this out makes me a kool-aid drinker.

Does that about cover it? :)

Jim X,I commend yo... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

Jim X,

I commend you. You've used three strawmen in a single post.

The coverage of, and reaction to, what Obama has done not just since his election, but prior, has been instantaneous, if not nauseatingly glorified.

This was billed as a speech to "heal long-standing wounds" and address the important issues of the middle east.

Iran is the most important issue in the ME right now. (You know, cause they want to blow up those pesky Joooooos). And it would change the entire dynamic of the region, for the worse, if that's possible.

HIS statements on Iran were embarrassing.

It is interesting to see the media spin its wheels with this. They really don't know how to handle it.

And God forbid some should have the temerity to opine negatively about Obama.

You want zombified agreement, go have a few big boy sips over at Kos.

"...The election was an ... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

"...The election was an early test of President Barack Obama's efforts to forge Middle East peace."

Some vacuous twit at AP thinks that Obama has had an effect on Lebanon's election. Jim x swallows it whole. Then Hess defends him for it. So, whatever.

ExSubNuke had it exactly right at #20.

jp2, You must be voi... (Below threshold)

jp2,
You must be void of embarrassment and shame,
as you continue to post at Wizbang.
You know birds of a feather, associations, and
all thatl.

It's always interesting to ... (Below threshold)

It's always interesting to see the trolls, and
mobys, such as Micheal Hess show up and show
theirs with such regular transparency.
Just love the direspectful hit and runs.
Glass houses and all that.

2. If anything goo... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
2. If anything good did happen in the Middle East in the past 3 days, it can't be at all due to Obama's speech, therefore he's an abject failure.

What you don't get, actually, is Obama's speech was nothing more than an event to be "captured" by the mainstream and "assessed" for the public to present them with an opinion. The link in comment 17 is a perfect example of a staged reaction. No way am I going to be intrigued by a photo of two guys wrapped in black cloth, who could be just about anybody, including british intelligence, supposedly affected by what Obama is saying. Of course, the photo has since changed because the times probably realized just how stupid it looked.

You must be void o... (Below threshold)
jp2:
You must be void of embarrassment and shame, as you continue to post at Wizbang. You know birds of a feather, associations, and all thatl.

Based on spelling/format/general spaciness, was this an attempt at a double-haiku?

The conspiracy theories are... (Below threshold)

The conspiracy theories are intriguing. I love the one about President Obama being hand-picked "decades" ago by Zbigniew Zabriskie, now that's a hoot!

I'll bet you believe former President Jimmy Carter is pulling all the strings whilst monitoring Lebanon's elections yesterday.

President Obama has been one step ahead of the Israelis, they won't stop illegal "settlements" - well, then George Mitchell will come over and we will talk final borders.

There is a plethora of stories out there where writers posit that Obama will, may, had an effect on not only the Lebanon election but also the upcoming Iran elections as well as some militants have come out and have been at least thoughtful about it.

The AP is reporting "Essam Derbala, a leader of one of Egypt's largest militant groups, al-Gamaa al-Islamiyya Al-Qaida, told an Egyptian newspaper over the weekend that the Taliban should reciprocate by announcing they will no longer target Americans. That would ensure U.S. troops will eventually leave the region, he said."

It's funny. Most people who want peace read all of the articles from many spectrums, many do extra research, and then they form an informed opinion.

ALL of the rabid right-wingers I know only read right-wing tabloids, they ONLY associate themselves with like minded bigots, and they ALWAYS cheer for war from the comfort of the arm-chairs and they rarely ever use a real name doing it.

Funny that.

Oh yeah,I almost f... (Below threshold)

Oh yeah,

I almost forgot about Shawn. Do you really think you are a friend to Israel by using the derogatory term "Joooooos"?

For those of us who are actually trying to keep Israel from self-destructing, you sound dangerously unhinged, and I fear you are outwardly projecting what you inwardly feel.

A deep disdain for anyone that dares think for themselves.

Ad hominem? That's the bes... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Ad hominem? That's the best you have for your argument? As for using real names... I don't like getting overwhelmed by spam or ads for "male enhancement". It just invites phishing (look it up).

It's net safety 101.

"hand-picked "decades" ago ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"hand-picked "decades" ago by Zbigniew Zabriskie"

Who the hell is Zabriskie?!" Haha! The shills can't even spell his name right! "Hurrah for the colleges which produce such brilliant men!" Onward, New (flatulent)World Order!

People who want peace, Michael, are creating it for themselves without the assistance of the Puppet-in-Chief's speeches. Ooooooh! "Conspiracy Theory"! Now, there's a new concept! "Rabid" and "Right-wing" are fresh and exciting rebuttal material, according to the formidable AP(Owned by Reuters) readers!

Ah, right. Looks like I nee... (Below threshold)
jim:

Ah, right. Looks like I need to add a point 5, or perhaps a point 4a:

You want zombified agreement, go have a few big boy sips over at Kos.

4a. Coming here and pointing out facts that others disagree with, is proof that what I'm really seeking is zombified agreement.

4a. Coming here an... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
4a. Coming here and pointing out facts that others disagree with, is proof that what I'm really seeking is zombified agreement.

A minor correction, if you don't mind too much. Said "facts" that you pointed out have no real proof, which of course is proof positive you will get anything but zombified agreement. Say, where did your magical "x" go? Left it in the car?

LaMedusa,Speaking ... (Below threshold)

LaMedusa,

Speaking of facts, there are a couple of people here dealing in them and you are not one of them.

What do you really think your comments are worth?

The dead give away was the spelling flame.

Like a school-yard bully you focus on the easy prey. Superficial stuff that you can understand because the more complicated nuances of many issues seem to be beyond you.

Another of your cohorts mentioned me being a troll. Well buddy I just trolled ya.

And instead of actually debating with any facts you kept rolling along, eyes seemingly wide open, and went for the troll.

You gave me the idea:

"...Obama was hand picked by Zbiggy decades ago..."

I figured since you could not be bothered to spell Zbigniew Brzezinski's name, you would immediately project that deficiency on me if I was to give you the opening.

Having fun yet? Next time try focusing on the facts.

OK, so let me get ... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:
OK, so let me get this straight:

1. If nothing good occurred in the Middle East in the past 3 days, that proves Obama's speech was ineffective and he is in an abject failure.

Um, no. When you're intellectually honest about it... it's way too soon for any meaninful analysis. I'd more likely attribute it to inertia of the status quo.

2. If anything good did happen in the Middle East in the past 3 days, it can't be at all due to Obama's speech, therefore he's an abject failure.

Much the same as point 1, it would be way too soon. But more to the point, the process that led to this has been ongoing for quite some time. As an example. If a 40ft wave crashes onto Oahu's North Shore during big wave season, is it to be attributed to the surfer deciding to ride that wave? Or was it caused by events that already had taken place from quite a distance in both time and space? Would that wave have still rolled in were the surfer not there? That's what I'm placing my money on.

3. And, I am pretty sure that if anything bad happened in the Middle East in the past 3 days, that would be **because of** Obama's speech, and that would prove he was an abject failure.

Again, much as point 1 and 2, that might not be the case. It COULD be the case, if policies were set in place that explicitly allowed something bad to happen (a-la the CIA-FBI wall in place that helped 9/11 take place), or if someone steps forward after something bad happens and explicitly says "I did this because of _________ (fill in the blank)." Then you have a pretty good argument for causation.

But to argue that a speech taking place 3 days before an election, that was the culmination of a geopolitical process set in motion 4 YEARS ago, is the cause of this desired result, is rather simplistic. Dangerously simplistic, if this is merely an indication that you'll digest and accept as gospel anything you read. Which reminds me, you owe me $1,000,000. (j/k) ;)

Again. Put down the Kool-aid, digest the facts, and think for yourself. Please. Cause I'm tired of having to do it for you.

It's glaring obvious why O ... (Below threshold)
Tammy:

It's glaring obvious why O doesn't know where America has stood for so many centuries on issues with other countries. He's not from here, remember? He's an Indonesian, otherwise, he would have manned up and produced proof of nativity by now.

Please keep posting the pho... (Below threshold)

Please keep posting the phony birth issue Tammy!

It points up the intellectual deficiencies of the conspiracy theorists.

Said "fa... (Below threshold)
Jim x:


Said "facts" that you pointed out have no real proof...

Really?

So you're saying that this election did not occur in Lebanon?

Because that's the only fact I'm pointing to.

How'd it go?O... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:
How'd it go?

Oh, woops: sounds like something other than crickets chirping.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_lebanon_elections

"BEIRUT - Lebanon's pro-Western coalition declared victory early Monday, as local television stations reported the faction had successfully fended off a serious challenge by the Shiite militant group Hezbollah and its allies to grab the majority in parliament.

...The election was an early test of President Barack Obama's efforts to forge Middle East peace. A win by Hezbollah would have boosted the influence of its backers Iran and Syria and risked pushing one of the region's most volatile nations into international isolation and possibly into more conflict with Israel."

But I'm sure that won't count for some reason. After all, that might indicate Obama did something worthy and actually might be good.

3. Posted by jim x | June 7, 2009 9:38 PM

So we're NOT to infer you think Obama's speech led to the repudiation of Hezbollah in the Lebanese elections... and that you're only pointing out that an election occured in Lebanon?

Wow... sorry for this whole mix up.

Idiot.

"Um, no. When you're intell... (Below threshold)
Jim x:

"Um, no. When you're intellectually honest about it... it's way too soon for any meaninful analysis."
OK! Thanks. So we should agree then that this entire article is premature , in asserting Obama's speech was a failure, and so Obama's a certain and total failure, 3 days after the speech.

Right?

You should just realize that i'm also pointing out that, in addition to being illogical, this entire article is based on a premise that is factually wrong - because tree was at least one positive development in the muslim world over the past 3 days.

Clear now?

In that context, please read the original article here again, now applying the statement below to yourself.

"Put down the Kool-aid, and digest the facts."


"Again. Put down the Kool-aid, digest the facts, and think for
yourself. Please. Cause I'm tired of having to do it for you."

Thank you for playing.

Hey, you guys can infer any... (Below threshold)
Jim x:

Hey, you guys can infer any freaking thing you want.

I'm just going to point out to you when it makes no logical sense.

because if the article writer can not just infer but *assert as fact* that Obama is a failure because some kind of event did not occur in 3 days, with no challenges from you, I should at least be able to suggest the opposite, right?

Perhaps you can explain why this is right for the article-writer, but wrong for me?

The adults get your point J... (Below threshold)

The adults get your point Jim x.

And a cursory search of Google News using - Obama speech cairo lebanon election - turns up many articles conflating the two.

I like the one in JPost that asserts that President's Obama's speech had no effect on Lebanese elections.

Even by penning the headline it is clear that Obama's speech did have an effect as demonstrated by so many right-wingers claiming that it did not.

JPost dug up a non-faculty professor to claim that the speech had no direct effect on the election yet the article concluded "The continued reign of March 14 and the incumbent Prime Minister Fouad Saniora will give the Obama administration a chance to strengthen its relationship with Lebanon as part of the new US-Middle East relations campaign highlighted in Obama's speech in Cairo last Thursday."

In other words, the speech is indeed still reverberating.

That first interview on Al Aribya no doubt helped as did President's Obama's speech in Turkey, and his stance prior to the speech about getting tough on Israel's recalcitrance about the illegal squatters, probably also had a small effect to nudge the elections towards the Western backed coalition.

To put it all into perspective imagine if John McCain was President.

Every extremist worth their weight in salt would be vying for power. Right now there is an attitude of wait and see if Obama is serious about getting Israel to make peace and return the stolen lands.

Once they see President Obama is quite serious about the US finally being even-handed as opposed to the 'anything goes for Israel' policies of the past, there will be reduced radicalization and a whole lot less American flags burned in far away places.

Yes, Jim, we adults did get... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Yes, Jim, we adults did get your point, which was to show that the Obama speech had a positive effect on the Lebanese election. You wouldn't have pointed out the Lebanese results in a thread about the Obama speech if you weren't trying to tie the two together. Unfortunately, the article you cited didn't show that the speech had any effect, it merely speculated that it did. It also pointed out that Obama's speech had little to nothing to do with the campaign:


Obama's speech did not resonate in the election campaign. But warnings by the United States that it could reconsider aid depending on the election's outcome have sparked Hezbollah accusations of U.S. interference. The U.S. has given around $1 billion to Lebanon's pro-Western government since 2006.

So which is it? Did the speech affect the election while at the same time "not resonating"? Seems a bit contradictory there. Now, if it is true that we tied monetary aid to Lebanon's refutation of Hezbollah and Syria, I will give the Obama team all the credit they deserve. I don't mind using a little Chicago Politics on Hezbollah, not at all. If we can find that Sheik Nasrallah asshole and slip a shiv between his ribs, I would be even more pleased. But, I'll take what I can get.

BTW, the middle paragraph o... (Below threshold)
Tim:

BTW, the middle paragraph of my post should have been in block quotes, but this platform sucks ass and eats html tags for breakfast.

"What do you really think y... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"What do you really think your comments are worth?"

What do you think they are worth? Talk about bullying...And, of course, you were so clever to misspell Zbiggy's name on purpose to see if I would correct you. That's what school yard bullies are all about is scoping for kids to beat on who can't spell. Michael, I almost feel bad for the people who's side you claim to be on, but you didn't really specify that, now did you? Find a new debate fixture too, because all that schoolyard crap is so last year, but then again, so are DU and Kos.

"So you're saying that this election did not occur in Lebanon?"

So, you need to put words in my mouth to sustain a debate? That's exactly what I said, "The election in Lebanon didn't happen!" /sarc Wow, if that isn't scraping the barrel. Nice to see your last initial decided to show up, Jim.

"Hey, you guys can infer... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

"Hey, you guys can infer any freaking thing you want.

I'm just going to point out to you when it makes no logical sense.

because if the article writer can not just infer but *assert as fact* that Obama is a failure because some kind of event did not occur in 3 days, with no challenges from you, I should at least be able to suggest the opposite, right?

Perhaps you can explain why this is right for the article-writer, but wrong for me?"

-Jim X

Jim,

You seem like a smart individual, but, is this your first time visiting a blog?

The substance in this article consists of my opinion.

That's what alot of bloggers do. They offer their own assertions, opinions, and perspectives on various issues.

We are not straight news reporters. Dare I say much of what is written by commentators and columnists consists of their opinions and perspectives on matters, and not merely "facts".

No one is asserting that you cannot do the same. That is why we have a comment section.

But your premise that my article is without merit because of your *assert as fact* reasoning is specious.

Sometimes bloggers write opinion pieces.

Seems pretty common.

"Please keep posting the ph... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"Please keep posting the phony birth issue Tammy!"

*Yawn. True, it give you another chance to use the word "conspiracy". It is a cool word, isn't it? Rolls right off the tongue. And who really cares if Obama was actually born in Indonesia? It's not like we have to worry about the Supreme court ruling in the U.S.'s sovereignty any more.

There is really nothing at all wrong with Obama putting a positive note on Islam, since true Islam and Christianity are pretty much hand in hand. His aim toward a phony peace has nothing to do with bringing them together, though.

LaMedusa,Yep, the ... (Below threshold)

LaMedusa,

Yep, the Barack Hussein Obama birth certificate whining is the very definition of a Conspiracy Theory. I capitalized it since you like how the term rolls off the tongue so much...

Here you have a bunch of wingnuts claiming a conspiracy that goes back to President Obama's very birth in their insane need to delegitimatize the nation's first black President.

Sorry I upset your little sandbox by trolling you, it was too easy.

And Shawn, yes it's an opinion piece. Now it's been trashed by the facts. President Obama's Cairo speech is resonating from Haaretz, to the Daily Star, to Al Jazeera English (highly recommended by the way, if most American got Al Jazeera public opinion would change in a week of Israel).

Sure some extremists are discounting it yet they are talking about it.

Hess,Nice site you... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

Hess,

Nice site you have.

Though completely devoted to the verbal thrashing of Israel.

Perusued a few of your pieces as well.

Do people complain when you opine about your feelings toward Israel?

I read Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post on a daily basis and found nothing to convince me that my opinions are any less valid on Obama's speech.

Read the talkbacks, too. Gives you a good perspective on the opinion of people in the region.

"I almost forgot about S... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

"I almost forgot about Shawn. Do you really think you are a friend to Israel by using the derogatory term "Joooooos"?"

Come on, Hess..

I refuse to believe that you are completely lacking in the ability to recognize sarcasm when it is presented.

Sheesh..

Shawn,In context s... (Below threshold)

Shawn,

In context sarcasm can be a valuable way to convey a point. But out of context, or someone just surfing in on a thread as I did, would not be aware of any context or historical subtext on the site having never been here before.

As far as Israel is concerned, I simply share the concerns of most major heads of state and governments the world over, something must be done about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in a fair and just manner.

America's lock-step approach of automatic vetoes and unconditional support including rearming Israel even as it was destroying civilian infrastructure in Lebanon to no avail and for no good reason other than to inflict as much damage as possible, has not made anyone safer nor has it brought peace closer.

In the interim it has brought a couple of hundred thousand more squatters living on stolen Palestinian land and that has proved quite problematic.

IDF soldiers protecting "settlers" from those they stole the land from.

No American would tolerate it, no Palestinian should have to tolerate it either, and President Obama said as much in his Cairo speech.

Oh and thanks for visiting, maybe others will see the dozens of other topics besides the Middle East that you missed.

You want a resolution to th... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

You want a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian problems? I have one, and it's pretty easy, give unconditional support to Israel... and then let the off the chain.

Israel has been nothing if not conciliatory in trying to resolve the issue... and the palestinians have never missed a chance to miss a chance.

I'd treat it like I treat my children at that point. I offer the reasonable offer... and if they don't take it, I ratchet up the pain. Israel has reconciled MANY times to all sorts of demands and offers... so now the palestinians need to have the pain ratcheted up. They launch a rocket? Destroy their settlement. They blow up a bus/bar/disco/sinagogue (sp?)... level their land. Take a lesson from WW2 with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We could have lost millions of lives in the effort to invade mainland Japan... or we could ratchet up the pain to unbelievable levels to help them clear their thoughts and respond with a level head.

All this dragging out of the conflict, and endlessly yanking Israel around by their chain has done nothing but made the conflict drag on endlessly. And every time the palestinians go back on their agreements (cause it's always them that break their word), let Israel do what they deem necessary to ratchet up the pain again. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. If the palestinians keep choosing death over peaceful co-existance... oblige them in their choice.

Use this as a policy, eventually 1 of 2 things will happen. 1) They choose peaceful co-existance cause they're tired of the pain... or 2) They're all dead, so the point is moot.

jp2, All of my haiku... (Below threshold)

jp2,
All of my haiku-type formatting and the
misspellings I blame on all of the tiresome
and boring ramblings of trolls such as you. ;)
So. It's your fault.

michael hess - "Here yo... (Below threshold)
marc:

michael hess - "Here you have a bunch of wingnuts claiming a conspiracy that goes back to President Obama's very birth in their insane need to delegitimatize the nation's first black President."

A "bunch of wingnuts claiming a conspiracy," over his birth cert?

Talk about overblown hyperbole, not to mention devoid of facts. Guess you failed to notice it was ONE wingnut named Tammy.

But hey, I'll give you a pass, it may be a one time effort, and failure, at the investigating process.

Have I taken too much for granted michael, or are you just another in a long line or hot-air artists that wander over from the Fever Swamps?

Michael Hess, Who ar... (Below threshold)

Michael Hess,
Who are you broad brush labeling as rabid
bigots?
And maybe you should read some of the world
history about spies who were groomed for years,
some who were never successfully outed until
it was too late.

Michael Hess, <bloc... (Below threshold)

Michael Hess,


Another of your cohorts mentioned me being a troll.
Well buddy I just trolled ya.

Did you bother to introduce yourself to the
right side bar of information on Wizbang.
Or do you go trolling site to site in sheer
ignorance. I'm no ones' cohort.
Comment Section Editor
Maggie Whitton

Michael Hess is not a troll... (Below threshold)

Michael Hess is not a troll, it's a moby.
Insidious attempts at google bombing by
twisting word association where Israel is
concerned. And Mr.Hess' hatred of Israel
is palpable.
IE, stolen lands and all that.
Remember Mr.Hess, all is fair in love and
war.

Shawn:Yo... (Below threshold)
jim x:

Shawn:

You seem like a smart individual, but, is this your first time visiting a blog?

The substance in this article consists of my opinion.

Sure, understood. And I was bringing up facts which, in my opinion, showed a different likelihood. WHich is fine.

However ExSubNuke brought up that I shouldn't express an opinion, as it was too early to properly weight the facts. So I was just responding to him, by pointing out that he saw no such problem with such expression before my post.

Reasonable people may differ on opinions, and that's all well and good.

Here you have a bu... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Here you have a bunch of wingnuts claiming a conspiracy that goes back to President Obama's very birth in their insane need to delegitimatize the nation's first black President.

Obama's birth is not a conspiracy, and no one here has made that claim. As far as the content on his birth certificate is concerned, that is definitely still a theory since no one has actually seen his COLB.

Do you know what Obama also is? He's half white, which was always completely downplayed when he began running for POTUS. So, here you are insisting again it's all about a race card that never really existed with a half-black, half-white president. You have referred to commenters here, including the comment editor, as cohorts. Of what-a conspiracy, against you?! Wake up and smell the cherry bomb in your toilet, it came from your own school.

"Google bombing",I... (Below threshold)

"Google bombing",

I don't hate Israel in the least. I do know however that Israel's policies lie directly at the root of a lot of the world's terrorism.

A fact that has not escaped the notice of most of the world's leaders, and based so far on the current administration's moves on "settlements" and borders and now an immediate resumption of talks, I believe President Obama is aware of this urgency as well.

It is treating Israel with the same rule of law that the US applies to all the other countries in the region, including Iraq and Iran, that will be the true test of the current administration.

That single act would do more to drain the terrorist swamp and their recruiters than any act of war or further military intervention.

Will it stop all terrorism? Certainly not, but it would mitigate a huge amount of it.

Some may not think so but from Ireland and some murals that depict the Palestinian struggle all the way to Sudan, if this "excuse", that has its basis in the Palestinians legitimate rights, is solved and the Palestinians rights are respected than these shows of solidarity would simply have no more meaning.

I don't hate Israel in t... (Below threshold)
Tim:

I don't hate Israel in the least. I do know however that Israel's policies lie directly at the root of a lot of the world's terrorism.

Way to contradict yourself in the first sentence. So, Mike, can you tell us what was the first thing that happened when the Israelis pulled out of Gaza? You know, making it UNoccupied and all? Giving Palestinians the self determination they soooo desired? I know what they did. They moved their rockets in, so they could fire further into Israel. Take your phony concerns for the Jews elsewhere, we ain't buying it.

No Tim I cannot.Be... (Below threshold)

No Tim I cannot.

Because Israel has never left Gaza. Read the Disengagement Plan for the details. Both the former Secretary General of the United Nations Kofi Annan and the present SG Ban Ki Moon say that Gaza is still occupied, I am going to have to go with the experts.

Then we have that pesky siege that has ensued ever since Hamas was invited (insisted by Rice and Bush to Sharon) to join in the elections that the Americans never thought they would win and guess what?

They won. Fair and square after being asked to participate in Western style exported "democracy".

The US and Israel were flabbergasted... The text messages were flying "OMG, Hamas won ... WTF shall we do?"

So they cooked up a coup attempt by America's "good guys" - Mohammed Dahlan, against Hamas but Hamas got wind of it and thwarted it and that begat the abominable siege that collectively punishes 1.5 Gazans for the actions of at most, 20,000 militants.

The Disengagement Plan spells out the conditions for Gaza, full and complete control of air, land, sea, electromagnetic spectrum, borders and their crossings, immigration, uh, pretty much like President Obama said when he brought up the slaves.

Is a light bulb going on yet? Anyone?

There is an entirely different reality when you start investigating the actual policy documents and the timelines of this conflict.

It's not that complicated. The American public has found itself in full possession of protecting a tiny country violating and subjugating the rights of the original indigenous inhabitants.

Once enough of them see what is going on then Israel may really find itself in a position where a settlement will be imposed.

That is nearly happening right now. Haaretz is reporting that Bibi has said President Obama is appeasing the Arabs by punishing Israel.

"Aides: PM thinks Obama wants policy clash with Israel to please Arab world"

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages
/1091428.html

((( sound of crickets chirping )))

The very first paragraph:

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu believes that U.S. President Barack Obama wants a confrontation with Israel, based on Obama's speech in Cairo last week, Netanyahu's confidants say."

There.

The article that this thread is attached to is now fully debunked.

OBAMA AND ITS FAVORITE AUDI... (Below threshold)
judgeit2:

OBAMA AND ITS FAVORITE AUDIENCE

DESCRIPTION: COMMUNICATION BETWEEN TWO CAMEL REARS FACING OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS

ASPIRATION : PLEASE DON'T 911 WASHINGTON DC WHILE I'M IN THE WHITEMANHOUSE WAIT FOR HILLARY IN AND ALSO LITTLE IRRELEVANT ISRAEL IS JUST A PAIN TO ME AS WELL, JUST REAL APPENDICITIS ACCUTIS, AND DON'T NUKE IT NOW.

ACHIEVEMENT: REITERATED THAT THE NEW AMERICA IS JUST 'AS YOU CAN SEE THEY HAVE NO BETTER BUT ME' SO PLEASE BRO JUST DON'T FOCUS ON OUR FUTURE TWINTOWERS, AT LEAST FOR NOW.

CONCLUSION: I HATE OSAMA ONLY BECAUSE HE IS SMARTER THAN ME AS YOU CAN SEE HE RECEIVES ALL YOUR ATTENTION AND THOSE PERVERTS IN MUSLIM AMERICA ARE AGAINST ANY MY REVERSE RELIGIOUS CONVERSION BUT YOU KNOW SECRETLY I STILL AM HUSSEIN THE GREAT

ADDENDUM: PLEASE CONVEY TO OSAMA AND AHMADI NOT TO CRITICIZE ME TOO MUCH ON FACEBOOK AS IT IS NOT VERY POLITE SPECIALLY AGAINST CLOSE MOSLEM BUDDIES.


ASALAMALEK FROM THE GREATEST MOSLEM PRESIDENT HUSSEIN OF THE UNIVERS

Debunked by what, Michael? ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Debunked by what, Michael? Israel is not the problem, the Israeli mafia is. Which article are you talking about? Your original argument was that Obama's speech was a masterpiece, now you are arguing with yourself.

"Once they see President Obama is quite serious about the US finally being even-handed as opposed to the 'anything goes for Israel' policies of the past, there will be reduced radicalization and a whole lot less American flags burned in far away places."

Yes, he has even you fooled. It has never been "anything goes" for Israel, because the plan is quite clear-cut. As a result of Israel's deceptive shadow govt, eventually it will be destroyed. The very clearing house happening in the U.S. right now is because the power is being moved to Israel with the assistance of our own puppet govt. The objective is to have a one world ruler. That is why you are seeing the fighting going on in the Mideast, to keep the chaos for revenue and distraction. Obama is not on your side, and the best thing to do is take care of yourself and your family. The POTUS is not interested in the welfare of Americans, and only serious about achieving the one objective.

Hess, The UN. Goo... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

Hess,

The UN. Good Lord.

If you go back far enough, the Jewish people are the indigenous people of that region.

The Palestinians elected a terrorist group to represent them. Reap what ye sow. Guess you don't think shooting 1800 rockets into Israeli population centers is reason enough for a re-action which "punishes" those innocent Palestinians.

You may have investigated the "timelines" of events in that region, but, if you are going to use that as the basis of your arguements, then you better go a little further back.

And your statement about the full "American public" supporting Israel is just not factually based. There is plenty of anti-semetism in this country. It is usually born out of ignorance of the facts.

Your link didn't work.

"Once enough of them see what is going on then Israel may really find itself in a position where a settlement will be imposed.

That is nearly happening right now. Haaretz is reporting that Bibi has said President Obama is appeasing the Arabs by punishing Israel."

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu believes that U.S. President Barack Obama wants a confrontation with Israel, based on Obama's speech in Cairo last week, Netanyahu's confidants say."

How exactly, from Netanyahu's alleged belief, can you extrapolate what is American public sentiment?

(sound of crickets laughing)

Just admit that you don't like Israel and we can move on.

Oh, he likes Israel just fi... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Oh, he likes Israel just fine. Of course, it's Israel's fault that the Palestinians chose one terrorist organization over another. It's their fault that the Palestinians are forced to shoot rockets at schools. It's even Israel's fault that the Palestinians destroyed greenhouses that were left behind when the ISRAELIS LEFT GAZA. You can quote the UN all you want, but we saw the Israelis leave, then we saw them have to come back briefly when the Palestinians launhed more rockets at them. If the Palestinians could learn to behave like civilized people when they're left to their own devices, then they can have more control of border crossings and such. The only reason they don't have such control now is because the Isrealis have had enough of suicide bombers blowing up families in pizza shops and buses. Think of it this way - if Israel wanted the Palestinians gone, they could make it happen. But they haven't. What does that tell you?

Have you seen the newly cre... (Below threshold)
Jeanne:

Have you seen the newly created "Health Care Ration Book" available in pdf at Smart Girl Politics?




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