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On Political Hate

On Wednesday of last week, a gunman with a rifle opened fire on people at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. A security guard was killed and the suspect, 88-year-old James von Brunn, a white supremacist previously sent to prison for trying to kidnap the Federal Reserve's board of governors, was shot and is now hospitalized. Assuming he recovers, Brunn will be charged with murder. By any decent person's understanding, the crime was senseless and hateful, 'hate' being the apparent prime motive.

A predictable flood of left-wing media has used this crime to claim that Brunn represents a valid and significant threat, that conservative political opinions lead to extremism and hate.

Dan Gainor wrote a pretty comprehensive summary of just how hypocritical the left-leaning media and blogs are being about Brunn.

Some conservative pundits have been claiming that the crime demonstrates that leftist politics are the source of Brunn's hate, or at least a major reason why he returned to violence.

AJ Strata posted a very intelligent article on Wednesday, noting that this not an ordinary Left-wing or Right-wing supporter, or even a fanatic, but a flat-out evil man whose politics are frankly irrelevant to the matter, except that political dialogue in the U.S. has become even more polarized and hysterical.

It turns out that von Brunn was not merely a white supremacist and anti-Semite, he also despised President Bush and Senator McCain, and considered 9-11 to be a government conspiracy. He is no conservative, and he is no liberal. Anyone claiming such is ignorant, a liar, or worse.

In short, Brunn appears to be both insane and violent, no more a valid example of considered political opinion than Charles Manson or Ted Bundy. James von Brunn is solitary example of corrosive hatred, and while I must agree that there are others out there who hold similar beliefs or who consider murder a reasonable response to conditions or leaders they dislike.

This brings me to the murder of Dr. George Tiller. The man accused of that crime is Scott Roeder, who allegedly justifies the murder of Tiller on Dr. Tiller's abortion of unborn babies. A similar cacophony of anger has occurred between Left and Right on this incident as well, some on the left claiming that Tiller's murder demonstrates that abortion opponents do not really value life and do not condemn violence against abortion providers whose actions are legal and, to the mind of the Left, important and necessary. Some on the right claim that the outrage over the death of a man who made a fortune through the deaths of countless innocents proves the hypocrisy of the Left's claim to compassion. Both extremes insult the majority of Americans, who would not condone killing either babies or doctors, whatever their politics.

I am not about to pretend that Democrats and Republicans have similar opinions on the major issues, let alone the same ones. But neither am I willing to agree to the broad brush condemnation of millions of intelligent, mature individuals, simply because they have a different perspective and want to pursue different policies than I do. Also, in my experience I have seldom found any large group that was a proper fit for me in all respects. I am a republican and a conservative (small 'r', small 'c') yes, though that is partly in default to the fact that the democrats have abandoned all of those principles that - before 1964 - would have attracted me. I also know from personal experience that it can be painful to take exception to certain expected positions - I was once cut from a prominent national blog for not agreeing to promote the site owner's specific positions on every political issue. I have strong opinions, but respect the law and the Constitution, as written. It seems to me that the leadership in our political parties, like the political factions which chase contributions and viewers/readers/voters, seeks only to provoke and outrage, counting on strong negative attacks rather than offering real solutions. And what solutions are proposed, far too often are merely demands and political payback to cronies, cynically couched as leadership or crisis response. Consensus exists in the dictionary, but never in the Congress.

- continued -

Stephen Johns did not die for a political cause. He died defending innocent people, doing his job. What happened at the Holocaust Memorial Museum should outrage both Republicans and Democrats, because a good and decent man died because of the hatred in an indecent man's heart. Dr. Tiller's murder should outrage both Republicans and Democrats alike, not because of Dr. Tiller's beliefs or actions, but because the law was ignored and a man took it upon himself to kill another man because of the hatred he had against him. William Long did not die because of his political beliefs, or anything that could rationally be construed as a crime or moral offense. He died because another man acted in hatred, hatred against America and hatred against her defenders.

There are real and important differences between differing political parties and there are many political viewpoints and opinions. These differences should be discussed candidly and civilly, using the blessing of a free and functioning democratic republic to decide the nation's course and actions. But all decent people should all be able to agree that hatred and violence against other citizens is abhorrent, and is not the result of any mainstream political party. These crimes were not born from either Democrat or Republican policies or candidates, and it is petty and false to pretend they were. The spirit which moves a man to murder someone is not concerned with how they voted or who is in office. Even political assassins are often unconcerned with the politics of their victims. John Hinckley shot President Reagan for reasons that made sense only to him, and which had nothing to do with his politics. Lee Harvey Oswald is on record as saying he liked and admired the Kennedies. There simply comes a point where it is necessary to realize that insanity does not operate in ways that rational people can explain, and it serves no one to try to attack the beliefs of tens of millions of people for the actions of one or a few madmen. It insults the victims to do so, as well.

Update: It's ironic. I write a piece on political hatred, and all that I see in the comments is exactly that.


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Comments (67)

DJ, Assigning insanity to p... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

DJ, Assigning insanity to people other than folks who collect hamburger meat from 1998 in a broken fridge is lazy thinking.

And Oswald was a patsy. (I thought we agreed.)

DJ,This is why rig... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

DJ,

This is why right-wing fanatics pose a greater treat than left-wing fanatics.

1. Republicans lost the election. A left-wing or right-wing fanatic is more likely to go off the deep end after there party loses.

2. Republicans attract gun fanatics. Obviously a disturbed person with guns is more dangerous than a distrubed person who does not own a gun.

3. Republicans attract religous zealots. Religous zealots whether they are muslim, christian, jewish or any religion are a high risk group for terrorism.

4. Republicans have increasing relied on divisive politics, which fuels hatred.

5. Right-wing shock jocks preaching hatred.

TrueBlue, How about ... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
How about backing up your opinionated allegations with verifiable facts.

maggie,How about add... (Below threshold)
groucho:

maggie,
How about addressing TrueBlue's "opinionated allegations" with some facts which might prove them unjustified?

James von Brunn has said "M... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

James von Brunn has said "Marxism-Multiculturalism-Judaism is the Enemy of Mankind"

1. James von Brunn likes to speak out against Marxism.

2. James von Brunn is obviously opposed to imigration.

3. James von Brunn is obviously opposed to gun control laws.

Which party do you think he most relates to?

groucho, Who squeeze... (Below threshold)

groucho,
Who squeezed your tooth paste tube?
TrueBlue made the allegations, he owns them.
It's his responsibility to back them, other
wise it might show s/he to be frivolous with
a loose jaw.

TrueBlue, Where are ... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
Where are your sources?

Maggie, Maggie, Maggie...yo... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie, Maggie, Maggie...you want me to try to find a study that shows extremeist are more likely to commit terrorism after their party loses or that a crazy person with a gun is more dangerous than a crazy person with out a gun? Tell me specifically what you disagree with and I may provide a response.

Agreed as to the flat out e... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Agreed as to the flat out evilness of this guy. He is certainly a sociopath, at the very least, but why now? His hatred has been fermenting for years, but what caused him to walk into the Holocaust Museum last week and open fire? We may or may not ever know, so we're left to speculate. The same can be asked of Dr.Tiller's murderer and the hideous story of the Arizona woman accused of the murder of several people, including a child, in some kind of bizarre anti-immigrant home invasion scenario.

I think to state that "These crimes were not born from either Democrat or Republican policies or candidates, and it is petty and false to pretend they were." is to miss the larger point. The climate of divisiveness and intolerance in this country has been escalating for some time. The debate, if you can call it that anymore, between the right and left has become a huge stone throwing free for all with very little accountability or civility. This is scary stuff, with perhaps enough thoughtless and incendiary hyperbole flying around the airwaves and the internets to ignite some smoldering embers of hatred in any number of wack-job psycopaths. Sadly, it seems to be happening.

TrueBlue X3,Don't pa... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue X3,
Don't patronize me, don't insult me, and
stop in your failed attempt of moving the goal
posts.
You either own up right now to what YOU posted,
or face being a slack jawed jackanape.
Now. Where are your sources.

maggie,I can see you... (Below threshold)
groucho:

maggie,
I can see you're having a hard time with this, so I'll help with TB's #1 opinionated allegation. I can, without any shadow of a doubt, substantiate the fact that the Republicans lost the last election.

Whoever this guy is, whatever his party affiliation might be, if any, he certainly fits more easily into the right-wing fanatic category, deny it as you may.

Maggie,I honestly ... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

I honestly don't know what you want me to provide sources for. Do you not believe that republicans increasing have relied on divisive politics? Or do you not believe that devisive politics fuels hatred? Tell me where you disagree.

Groucho, Patronizing... (Below threshold)

Groucho,
Patronizing me is a waste of time. You can,
struggle mightily to make this a republican
thing, that does not make is so. Nor does it
make it a democrat thing. The man is nothing
less than pure evil.

I honestly don't ... (Below threshold)
I honestly don't know what you want me to provide sources for. Do you not believe that republicans increasing have relied on divisive politics? Or do you not believe that devisive politics fuels hatred? Tell me where you disagree.

Amazing. You write an accusatory post and then
claim you don't know what sources are asked
for. How disingenuous. Down right fraudulant.
By divisive politics you mean the republicans
are not following Obamas failed politics
like slavering dogs?
So now, where are your sources for the
comment alleging von Brunn is more like a
republican.

maggie,Somehow this ... (Below threshold)
groucho:

maggie,
Somehow this doesn't feel like a mighty struggle. No one's patronizing you, just asking you to come up with some examples of why TB's simply stated points in post #2 are not, at least, close to the mark.

Maggie,I made a bu... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

I made a bunch of statements based on my personal observations through out my life. I'm being a little sarcastic because you made a broad statement asking for sources. What do you want me to prove? Do I have to find a study that shows mentally unstable people with guns are dangerous? Or that a higher percentage of republicans own guns.

It's not that more republicans than democrats are mentally unstable. What I am saying, is a republican is more likely to own gun than a democrat. Therefore there are more mentally unstable republicans running around with guns than there are democrats. This is based on logic not sources.

groucho, You just c... (Below threshold)

groucho,
You just can't understand. Of course you can
as you're both graduates of the same cookie
cutter school of leftist propaganda. Maybe
you're both a couple of bona fide ACORN
thugs. Who knows.
Since you both feel it's a bonafide argument
to make unfounded and unsourced allegations
I'm posting you are both members of ACORN and
belong to branches that are now under indictment
for voter fraud.

TrueBlueI'm making a... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue
I'm making a personal observation that you are
a member of ACORN, and involved in one of the
branches under indictment for voter fraud.
How does that sound. Unsubstantiated? So what.
And everyone knows there are more democrats
as ACORN members than republicans, which means
there's more democratic fraud in voting.

can't argue with that. you'... (Below threshold)
groucho:

can't argue with that. you've got me. i'm done. stick a fork in me.

just wondering, which one of me are you talking about? ...i'd love to stick around, but i've got a subversive meeting starting in a few minutes...gotta run

Maggie,I... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,


I'm making a personal observation that you are a member of ACORN

You could not have observed that I am member of ACORN because I am not.

And everyone knows there are more democrats as ACORN members than republicans, which means there's more democratic fraud in voting.

First off, being indicted of a crime is not proof of commiting a crime.

Second. Republcans that commit voter fraud do not do so through ACORN, therefore you can not measure the number of republicans that commit voter fraud by looking at ACORN.

Patronizing me is a wast... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Patronizing me is a waste of time. You can, struggle mightily to make this a republican thing, that does not make is so. Nor does it make it a democrat thing. The man is nothing less than pure evil.

Maggie,

Where are you sources?

TrueBlue, You need ... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
You need to prove what I've posted is not
true, where's your sources.
You're an ACORN member, dedicated to voter
fraud, the over throw of our constitution,
disarming the citizens of this country,
and in love with the mass murderer Castro.

Maggie,They are no... (Below threshold)
Sue:

Maggie,

They are not worth your time. At the very least they have problems with reading comprehension, as well as a problem with hatred of others that do not agree with them.

Two words--

ban them

I'm fine with those that have different opinions but these two are simply hostile, and very deliberately so.

More evidence James von Bru... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

More evidence James von Brunn relates more to republicans than democrats. The following passage is written by James von Brunn in his book Kill the Best Gentiles.

The House Judiciary Committee, containing a Republican majority (all Aryans), risked their political careers voting to impeach a popular President; while 16 Democrats (5-Whites, 5-Negroes and 6-JEWS) unanimously voted to keep the security risk and compulsive liar in office (95% of all Negroes and 90% of all JEWS voted to elect him president. Negroes wistfully call him "the only black President." They love his lies and his blues saxophone).
Trueblue and groucho, you a... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Trueblue and groucho, you are both lazy. You post an opinionated list of pronouncements means you back up the source when asked. The burden of proof is on the accuser.


@#2: If you can't post your "list" with examples based on solid facts, you're a waste of bandwidth.

What was your comment 24 su... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

What was your comment 24 supposed to "prove"?

TrueBlue, Oh looky s... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
Oh looky shiny object -->
That is not a source, you knew that, that's
why you threw it out there, you ACORN thug.

It is absurd to say that Ja... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

It is absurd to say that James von Brunn is anything but a right-winger. Just read his book.

Here are a few passages:

Liberalism is a disease whose first symptom is an inability to believe in conspiracies.
LIBERALISM/JEWRY/MARXISM was the formula used by Woodrow Wilson, and Franklin D. Roosevelt, both Democrats, to betray their Nation.
It remains to be seem whether or not the Negro living in America has the WILL to demand his own unique Nation-State in Africa or remain forever a slave to LIBERALISM/ MARXISM/JEWRY.
Before World War II Hitler had established himself as the arch enemy of Liberalism, Marxism, and Jewry - precisely the three driving forces... that had ridden into power with Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal.


TrueBlue, Still thro... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
Still throwing shiny objects ACORN?
You still haven't posted any sources that
right wingers or republicans are more like
von Brunn.
But I see you are concerned with his hatred
of marxism, I bet that really stings.
When the barricades are lifted for going to
Cuba, invite yourself over there to live
with not the politicals, but the people being
controlled by their government. Take your
time over there.
/shiny object

Maggie,You obvious... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

You obviously did not read/comprehend the book I provided a link to. You demand sources and when I provide them you do not read/comprehend them.

How many times does James von Brunn have to attack liberalism and extol capitalism before his viewpoint sinks in with you.

Maggie,James von B... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

James von Brunn equates liberalism with marxism while extoling capitalism. That makes him a right-winger. End of argument. Just read James von Brunn own words.


How you can tell the differ... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

How you can tell the difference between James von Brunn and a typical Rush fan?

Answer:
James von Brunn laughs slightly louder when Rush Limbaugh tells a negro joke.
depp=true
notiz=Shovels given out freely here.

So, TB, the nutter in quest... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

So, TB, the nutter in question also hated Bill O'Reilly, Zionists (because of the Jew connection), Jews and NeoCons (because of their connections to the Jews and Zionists). He thought 9/11 was an inside job.
Based on that evidence, he sounds like the average schmo at a Berkley "peace" rally. Aka, a leftist. Or BryanD. But I repeat myself.
Could it be that the guy is nuts, and that his delusions are not based on politics?

SCSIwuzzy,James vo... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

SCSIwuzzy,

James von Brunn makes his political views very clear. He equates liberalism with marxism while extoling capitalism. That clearly makes him a right-winger.

hey TB, I own a weapon(5 re... (Below threshold)
1903A3:

hey TB, I own a weapon(5 really),does that make ME a "disturbed person". what a loon,just because a person owns one dosnt make them nuts,although some nuts do own one. do you?

1903A3, of course owning gu... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

1903A3, of course owning guns does not make you a disturbed person.

What I am saying is a mentally disturbed right-winger is more likely to own guns than a mentally disturbed left-winger. For this reason there are more right-wingers that goe on shooting sprees than left-wingers.

so what do these dates have... (Below threshold)
1903A3:

so what do these dates have in common:11/7/07 18 dead,9/23/08 22 dead, 3/11/09 10 dead. give up? All happened in europe, you know the place where your not supposed to own a weapon and I might add very liberal.it matters not if your left or right, if you a crazy nut and you want to do harm to someone then your gonna do it no matter what.

BTW,you didnt answer my que... (Below threshold)
1903A3:

BTW,you didnt answer my question. do YOU own a weapon? just wondering.

This is irrefutable proof J... (Below threshold)
David:

This is irrefutable proof James Van Brunn was a far rightwinger.

James Van Brunn was a frequent poster on the far-rightwing hate site "Free Republic".

His postings were well accepted by the "Freepers".

His hateful screed "Obama is Missing" is signed by him, IN HIS FULL NAME, James W. von Brunn, on December 02, 2008 It is still up on that site... check it out before it's removed.

His Free Republic nick was "wannabegeek"... read his other rightwing hate posts.

Google Free Republic "Obama is Missing"

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:niXSYG-nVO8J:www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2141655/posts

Type in user, wannabegeek if the link below is broken and read von Brunn's other rightwing rants as well as the "Freepers" hateful, SUPPORTIVE responses.

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:wannabegeek/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change

"more likely to own guns th... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"more likely to own guns than a mentally disturbed left-winger."

Left-winger, as in Charles Manson? If you wanna drop people in a bucket, you may want to expand your history scope just a little bit. J Wilkes Boothe, etc...

TrueBlue, You are... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,

You are deliberately Obtuse.

TrueBlue, You are Ob... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
You are Obtuse x3.
I said verifiable sources. von Brunn is insane,
criminally so. One other thing, when the goose
that lays the golden egg is finally destroyed,
you'll have something to truly weep about.

So... preferring capitalism... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

So... preferring capitalism to marxism is all it takes NOT to be left wing?

So Paul "I own half of Oregon" Hooson is right wing now?

TB, you're just trying to cherry pick any "facts" that allow you to make your argument. You've reached your conclusion, now you're looking for the evidence to support it. Pathetic.

TrueBlue, the only thing yo... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

TrueBlue, the only thing you have proven is that James Van Brunn has an absolute opinion about liberals. To say that his words and articles are the be-all and end-all that applies to all right-wing, and the defining moment of the difference between right and left-wing extremists, is you following his play book alone. Every other opinion received aside from Van Brunn is lost in a void and never makes it to your ears.

Maggie is right, you know. You are quite obtuse and stuck on the "Blue cause" brigade.

TrueBlue, the only thing... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

TrueBlue, the only thing you have proven is that James Van Brunn has an absolute opinion about liberals. To say that his words and articles are the be-all and end-all that applies to all right-wing, and the defining moment of the difference between right and left-wing extremists, is you following his play book alone. Every other opinion received aside from Van Brunn is lost in a void and never makes it to your ears.

LaMedusa,

I never said nor implied that James Van Brunn words and articles apply to anyone but James Van Brunn. Re-read my comments.

What I did point out are sections from a 400 page book/essay in which James Van Brunn goes into extensive detail about his political beliefs.

One of the reacurring themes in his writing is that democrats, liberals and marxists are the source of virtually all the problems in the world. He also attributes capitalism to the successes in the world.

The argument is over. He says in his own words that he is a capitalist. He also attributes democrats, liberals and marxists as a source of virtually all the problems in the world. That is a right-wing view. End of story.

So... preferring capital... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

So... preferring capitalism to marxism is all it takes NOT to be left wing?

SCSIwuzzy,

Absolutely not. I am a liberal democrat, given the choice I would choose capitalism over marxism in a heart beat.

James Van Brunn also blames democrats and liberals for the worlds problems. That is what makes him a right-wing extremist.

I said verifiable source... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

I said verifiable sources. von Brunn is insane, criminally so.

I probably provided you with one of the best sources you have ever received on this site. I give you a link to 400 page document, written by James Van Brunn, where he describes his own political beliefs in great detail.

And you dismiss it by merely stating he is insane. Whats your reasoning? Do you think James Van Brunn didn't really mean to write all of those nasty things about liberals. Was he so insane that he didn't really mean it?

TrueBlue, Liberals h... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
Liberals have one thing in common with camels,
they're nasty.
And you are patronizing to assume I am going to
read a 400 page document that is not sources
you can use to back up your broad brushing of
all people on the right, including me.
Now, how about some reliable sources that shows
statistics and data to back your obtuse comments.
Yep, I just moved the goal posts, and looky there
to your left, a shiny object!!

BTW,you didnt answer my ... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

BTW,you didnt answer my question. do YOU own a weapon? just wondering.

No, but have fired a few; some of my friends are hunters.

No, but have fire... (Below threshold)
No, but have fired a few; some of my friends are hunters.
TrueBlue, you're nothing but a cut and paste agiprop moby.
Maggie,Nothing I w... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

Nothing I wrote was cut and paste. I spent half an hour finding the source of a single quote I read on another blog. I did not find the source of the quote. Instead I found the document that contains James Van Brunn own writing. All of my comments on James Van Brunn are based on my own reading of the document.

By the way, my ex-girl friend is a hunter. She lives in West Virginia. It's hard to live in or near West Virgina and not have friends who hunt.

And you are patronizing ... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

And you are patronizing to assume I am going to read a 400 page document...

If you want to know what someone believes than the best way is to ask them. The second best is to read a book in which they describe all of there beliefs.

Its an electronic document. Search it for the words democrat, liberal, republican and capitalist. Although you may not like what you find.

I provided numerous quotes from the document so you would not have to read all of it. But I also supplied a link to the entire document so that you can.

Trueblue, In comme... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Trueblue,

In comment 2, you provided/bloviated a list of why you felt right-wing extremists posed a greater threat than left-wing extremists.

Then, you said:

Maggie, Maggie, Maggie...you want me to try to find a study that shows extremeist are more likely to commit terrorism after their party loses or that a crazy person with a gun is more dangerous than a crazy person with out a gun? Tell me specifically what you disagree with and I may provide a response.

As if that was really too much to ask and your word was enough.

Then this is what you said:

What I am saying is a mentally disturbed right-winger is more likely to own guns than a mentally disturbed left-winger. For this reason there are more right-wingers that goe on shooting sprees than left-wingers.

No proof whatsoever, no real facts and you limply lift up a bunch of quotes from James von Brunn in comment 28 which could've have all been easily copy and paste as maggie stated because you can google each and every one of them.

That is a right-wing view. End of story.

The rest of the story and the real end of the story is that you were unable to back up your list of "why right-wing fanatics pose a greater treat than left-wing fanatics."

Frankly, I don't give a sh*t any more because you know you are unable to even try.

What I am saying i... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:
What I am saying is a mentally disturbed right-winger is more likely to own guns than a mentally disturbed left-winger. For this reason there are more right-wingers that goe on shooting sprees than left-wingers.

LaMedusa,

I will not provide a source for every sentence I write. I repeatedly asked maggie and others as to what part of what I wrote they disagree with and I'll provide some references.

I provided the absolute best possible source of information on James von Brunn political views. A link to download a book James von Brunn wrote himself and it is about his political views.

The statement I made about mentally disturbed people is based on logic. I did not rip it off another blog, therefore there is no source to quote.

Anybody that goes on a shooting spree is mentally disturbed. More people on the right own guns. That makes it likely there are more mentally disturbed right-wingers with guns than there are mentally disturbed left-wingers with guns. This does not mean that more right-wingers are mentally disturbed than left-wingers. It only means they are more likely to own guns, thus more likely to go on a shooting spree.

TB you choose to fixate on ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

TB you choose to fixate on his hate of elements of the left, but ignore his hate of elements of the right. Only so you can try to tar the right with his sins.
You've mistaken sitting on a high horse for standing on the high ground.

I will not provide... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
I will not provide a source for every sentence I write.

Stop playing ignorant and putting something in there that never happened. No one asked you to do that.

I repeatedly asked maggie and others as to what part of what I wrote they disagree with and I'll provide some references.

Baloney. You repeatedly said that right-wing extremists pose a greater threat than left-wing, then started blathering about who is more dangerous owning a gun. You brought in a book by James von Brunn with quotes that provide only another opinion, and no proof. You only prove your bias when only bringing up his views. How hard is it for you to stay focused on your own argument? Here is another quote for you:

"Opinions cannot survive if they cannot be defended."

Thomas Mann

Now, either prove your point as to why one extremist political mindset would be more dangerous, or put it to rest, already. Is maggie right that you are acorn trained? You managed to sneak in a quote that included the word "conspiracies".

TB you choose to fixate ... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

TB you choose to fixate on his hate of elements of the left, but ignore his hate of elements of the right. Only so you can try to tar the right with his sins.

SCSIwuzzy,

Its not that I ignore his hate of elements on the right, I can not find any.

I can find dozens of postive statements about capitalism made by James von Brunn.

I can also find dozens of negative statement about liberalism made by James von Brunn.

Yet I can not find one postive statement he makes about liberalism nor one negative statement about capitalism.

TrueBlue, Your igno... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
Your ignorance and bias about guns, hunting,
and the 2nd Amendment is astounding.
Your attitude is demeaning when it comes to the
right of every individual to self defense. I
own guns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols. I don't hunt. Now why would I need guns? How about defense of my home, family and body?
If you're one of those people who stutter about
it being the polices' job to protect the citizens you are sadly mistaken. Ask any cop if his sworn duty to protect you. He'll tell
you quickly his job is to uphold the law.
He's not a bodyguard. And when he's not available for a 911 call, you are on your own.

Anybody that goes... (Below threshold)
Anybody that goes on a shooting spree is mentally disturbed. More people on the right own guns. That makes it likely there are more mentally disturbed right-wingers with guns than there are mentally disturbed left-wingers with guns. This does not mean that more right-wingers are mentally disturbed than left-wingers. It only means they are more likely to own guns, thus more likely to go on a shooting spree.

More allegations right off of the top of your
head, TrueBlue. Where are your sources?

Maggie,People gene... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

People generally only give sources if they quote/paraphrase other sources. Or if specific facts of an argument are in question.

I did not quote or paraphrase any other sources and no one has challenged any specifics of my argument.

So stop yelling for sources. Tell me where you disagree with what I said and I'll back it up.

TrueBlue, This blog ... (Below threshold)

TrueBlue,
This blog does not run under your laws,
or directions.
There was no yelling, only asking for sources
of allegations you continually make with absolutely no way of showing what you are
accusing is factual.
If you don't like being asked for proof of your
allegations, quit making them.
Otherwise you can expect the invitation of
a shovel, or a tree. Your choice.

Maggie,Arguments a... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

Arguments are based on logic and facts. Sources are only used/needed to verify the facts used in an argument not the logic.

In attacking my argument you can point out flaws in the logic or ask for sources to specific facts used in making the argument. You have done neither.

TB,You're not basing... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

TB,
You're not basing your arguments on logic alone, but assumptions.

As for your inability to find where he said anything that would associate him with the left, that is just that, your inability.
He disliked Marxism because Marx was a Jew. He disliked capitalism because it enriched the Jews.

Things von Brunn has said:


Christian faith is a dastardly Jewish conspiracy, a "HOAX" invented by the Apostle Paul to "DESTROY ROMAN CULTURE" from within by undermining its pagan virility

Yockey, in his suppressed book Imperium, notes that MARXISM is seriously flawed because MARX, being a JEW, could not understand the real differences between CAPITALISM and SOCIALISM, which emanated from the WESTERN CULTURE-ORGANISM. Capitalism and Socialism are how a Nation (Family, People, Race) feels, thinks, and lives, and secondarily are ECONOMIC CONCEPTS. One [capitalism] is past history; the other, WESTERN SOCIALISM, represents the future of the West, and the end of JEWRY on Western soil.

WESTERN SOCIALISM, unlike Marxism/Communism and Capitalism, emanates not from Reason alone but from the ETHOS OF THE WEST. It expresses the instinctive and Intuitive feelings UNIQUE to the Aryan Nation. Its Idea is the Musketeers' cry: "One for All and All for One!" The ingathering of the White Nation-States into ONE CULTURAL ORGANISM -- its own territory and its own State in which to house, protect, and nurture the Nation -- precludes Marxist inspired class warfare and hate-struggles between its component parts. The ECONOMY springs from the CULTURE. MONEY becomes merely a tool, a means of exchange, a storage of value -- not an ILLUMINATI weapon." (pp. 143-4). "No intelligent person took MARX seriously. His Old Testament idea that work is evil -- and New Testament idea that men and races are equally endowed -- opposes Nature and the very Soul of the West." Marxists, Bolsheviks, Communists denounce "capitalist pigs." While from behind the scenes -- in the on-going battle to implement the PROTOCOLS OF ZION -- all wars and revolutions are financed by JEW CAPITALISTS. (pp. 143-5.)

Maggie,Lets work t... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

Lets work through this, I do not think I made my position clear. You do not have to agree with me, but I would like it if you better understood my position.

Suppose someone who owns a gun snaps and goes on shooting spree.

Without knowing if the person who snapped is a republican or democrat it is possible to make a prediction based on statistics.

If there are 5 times as many republicans that own guns than democrats than it is roughly 5 times more likely that the person who went on a shooting spree is a republican.

You're not basing your a... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

You're not basing your arguments on logic alone, but assumptions.

As for your inability to find where he said anything that would associate him with the left, that is just that, your inability.
He disliked Marxism because Marx was a Jew. He disliked capitalism because it enriched the Jews.

SCSIwuzzy,

You are right I did include some assumptions. I believe all of my assumptions to either be correct or close enough to prove my point.

I'd like to respond to your comment, but won't have time until tomorrow evening. Please check back.

True Blue, Nice try,... (Below threshold)

True Blue,
Nice try, disingenuous at the best.
You're not going to stop attempting to
use that broad brush to indict all republicans,
anyone on the right or in the center.
You don't believe in self defense as a
right for every human being. You believe
some are more equal than others.
I would suggest you study the history of the
Constitution of the United States, and The
Bill Of Rights. Then I would suggest you
study the last 100 years history of the failed,
bloody state of socialism.

Maggie,You have fa... (Below threshold)
TrueBlue:

Maggie,

You have false accused me of many things. You won't find one quote that I've made that shows I am in support of gun control. Not anywhere, on this blog or any blog for that matter. The reason you won't find any is because I am opposed to gun control not for it.

I am also not a socialist.




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