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This Man Has No Shame

Another day, another Obama infomercial.

President Barack Obama held a townhall style meeting today, one in which the audience was "hand-picked" by White House staffers.

It was conveniently "moderated" by White House domestic policy chief Valerie Jarrett.

Questioners included members from, gag, the SEIU (Service Employees International Union) and the group Health Care For America Now.

The other questions from the audience were also hand-picked by Obama's casting crew, er, I mean, staff.

At one point, Obama just happened to pick a woman, named Debbie Smith, who, by pure coincidence, is a volunteer for Obama's "Organizing For America" group. She received tickets through the White House staff. Debbie proceeded to give a tear-jerker of a speech concerning her kidney cancer and how she cannot get health insurance, nor a job.

Obama, in an "I feel your pain" moment, hugged her, and told her she would receive help immediately. (Hallelujah! Can I git an "Amen"?!)

Just another example of honesty taking a back seat to Obama's agenda.


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Comments (81)

I'm Marching Friday to Prot... (Below threshold)
epador:

I'm Marching Friday to Protest this kind of crap. Anyone else?

Yes, since the one in Gwinn... (Below threshold)
SillyPuddy:

Yes, since the one in Gwinnett got screwed out of the location they were using I'm heading to the one in cobb county.

6pm Marietta, GA.
http://www.cobbteaparty.com/

I don't really doubt that s... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

I don't really doubt that she was a "plant" by the Obama administration. Just like "Joe the plumber".

The only difference is that her kidney cancer is real, she can't get health insurance, and she WILL die an early death.

You guys spout off about morals so god damned much it makes me want to puke, but when people shuffle off to die because they can't afford health care, here in the United States of America, the richest country in the world, while the health insurance fatcats and lobbyists rejoice, it's a travesty.depp=true
notiz=Here's your shovel

It's a travesty people like you couldn't be bothered with.

Lemme just guess here. I bet you've never been without health insurance. I bet you grew up as a child in an upper middle class family whose breadwinner had an employer that provided health insurance. I bet all of your immunizations were covered and administered on time. Do you have any idea how much a god-damn immunization can cost?

Now you're older, and because you've been healthy, (received routine checkups and all of the preventative care a person needs, but yet many can't afford) you felt good, and you didn't have the financial and time-consuming burden of caring for a sick parent who didn't have access to health care.

So, you went to college and had health care insurance the whole time, even though you probably didn't work, and you graduated, and now you have a great job that provides you with great health insurance.

It must be really hard to see what millions struggle with every day. How an otherwise healthy person or their child can get diabetes or cancer and utterly and fundamentally ruin the rest of their lives, lose their car, lose their home.

It must be nice.

I grew up very poor. My single mother(father deceased) made just enough to keep us off food stamps and Medicaid, but not nearly enough to pay for things like checkups and screenings that you take for granted.

So all I can offer is the biggest middle finger you can picture, waving in your face.

The richest country in America got that way on the backs of its hard-working citizens, we can't turn our backs on them because the health insurance lobbyists don't like it.

I think I understand now wh... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

I think I understand now what they mean by "transparency".

I can see right through this crap.

Joe the plumber? Ar... (Below threshold)
Maggie Mama:

Joe the plumber? Are you kidding me?!? He was not a plant, Ryan.

Obama came into HIS NEIGHBORHOOD. That was not a carefully scripted media event. It took place in the middle of a street with locals around.

Obviously Obama & Crew have learned that lesson well! And it will not be a mistake he makes again.

Unlike poster #3, I hardly ... (Below threshold)
Bob:

Unlike poster #3, I hardly think that everyone in America except insurance lobbyists wants government-run health care. We only have so many doctors, nurses and other health professionals, and, contrary to BHO's prediction to the contrary, there will be fewer new doctors when the government runs the program than there are now - look at the facts from any country with single-payer or other government monopoly health care. So who gets the short end of the stick? Under the present system, 250 million Americans are insured and 300 million Americans get good health care when they are sick. Under Obama-care, 300 million Americans will be insured and no Americans will get good health care - sick or well.

Why do all these "poor" peo... (Below threshold)
mag:

Why do all these "poor" people swoon over socialism or having the "rich" pay their way??

There are people out there who lost their jobs and/or have had hit hard times or have had a major sickness, etc . These people deserve our help. Then there are the serial parasites that expect everyone to pay for EVERYTHING from the womb to the grave. These are the ones that I am getting sick and tired of getting taxed to help. And they are growing in numbers.

And by the way I work in a hospital, believe me everyone gets great health care whether they pay or not. They ones that never pay couldn't care less....it the ones who have lost their jobs and can not pay that try so hard to still pay their bills. Called responsibility and pride.

Besides if our government did not interfer so much (they are most dangerous when they want to help) maybe our economy would be better and there would be more good jobs out there.
If there is a problem in this country more times than not you can trace it back to our government trying to help.
You know...the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And this paved road is getting pretty thick.

Ryan,I am one of tho... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

Ryan,
I am one of those of whom you speak. Healthy all my life. Parents who have been healthy all their lives. I've never been without health insurance. Believe it or not, I do have sympathy for the woman who has the kidney cancer

On the other hand, not to be flippant, but I am also not blind. As Bob wrote if you look at countries that have well entrenched government managed health care it is clear that this woman is no more guaranteed expedient/experienced treatment under that type of system than the one we currently have. Sorry, but that is a fact. And, depending upon her age, she may not be seriously considered for the most aggressive treatment at all. Rationing of health care is a reality in government-directed health care. Your type of emotion is typical of the way Democrats set policy. "The worst option is to do nothing or if we don't pass this gazillion dollar stimulus package yesterday, we may never recover".

The story of this woman's cancer is a reason we need to look at health care, but it in no way justifies us devising a program that gets her treatment tomorrow but collapses in the long term for everyone else. You probably voted for Obama. You might want to check the web site On The Issues and review John McCain's proposals for health care reform that he outlined during his campaign. If this is a hot button issue for you, you will readily see that you cast a ballot for the wrong person.

Ryan, the issue for me is n... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Ryan, the issue for me is not whether poor or uninsurable people should receive free health care, the issue is whether we should all be forced into a single payer system to do that. It's apparent that Obama wants a single payer system--everybody with the same, government-approved care, except for Obama, Congress, and the UAW. And there will be rationing--as DaveD says, this woman might well be denied help under Obamacare.
I also foresee that any healthcare "reform" no matter what sort it is, will deeply harm the economy, but since the economy is going in the tank anyway, with Crap and Raid and TARP, maybe that's not something I should worry about.
Your diatribe, however, is hollow when you realize that the healthcare "reform" plans being floated allow for Congress, the very wealthy, and UAW members to opt out of them. Are you as upset over Obama's statement that he'd get the best healthcare for his own family as you are that a handful of posters on this board have good healthcare plans?
My family and I have had good healthcare, but it's come as a result of financial sacrifice. It's a choice we've made, and I don't want the right to make that choice taken away.

Ryan obviously cannot tell ... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

Ryan obviously cannot tell the difference between an unscripted event, Joe the Plumber, and 'The Won's' latest sob story plant in the crowd. There seems to be one every time he holds one of his tightly managed and scripted to Hollywood precision events that he calls a 'Town hall' event that in reality is anything but.

I didn't hear the particula... (Below threshold)
epador:

I didn't hear the particulars of their woman's medical situation. However, right now, in this country, if she has cancer, there are a number of institutions that would see her through a primary surgical treatment with charity care, drug companies that would provide medication gratis (assuming she had little financial resources), and physicians who would provide her care without insurance.

Once ObamaCare happens, she may not have any of these options available to her. Renal Cell cancer does not have a significant response rate to anything but surgical approaches, and the millions of dollars spent on medical and radiotherapeutic treatments rarely if ever prolong life (or prevent an "early death"). Sure you can trot out some anecdotes to the contrary, but they represent a small percentage of folks. THus, using results-based reimbursement schemes, treatments would be considered ineffective, poorly reimbursed, and shunned by most if not all practitioners when 85 or more out of 100 folks receiving the treatment do not benefit from the treatment.

Then, Ryan dear, your teary eyed plant would REALLY be SOL.

Haa haa haa... Obama's danc... (Below threshold)
The Albatross Author Profile Page:

Haa haa haa... Obama's dancing monkey, Robert Gibbs on the topic, even Helen Thomas remarks on the "transparency" and openness contradiction...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/01/cbs_helen_thomas_challenge_gibbs_on_controlled_town_hall_meeting.html

Hell, when even Helen Thoma... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Hell, when even Helen Thomas is saying you're scripting things - you've gone too far.

CNSNews.com - Helen Thomas: Not Even Nixon Tried to Control the Media Like Obama

(CNSNews.com) - Following a testy exchange during today's briefing with White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas told CNSNews.com that not even Richard Nixon tried to control the press the way President Obama is trying to control the press.

"Nixon didn't try to do that," Thomas said. "They couldn't control (the media). They didn't try.

"What the hell do they think we are, puppets?" Thomas said. "They're supposed to stay out of our business. They are our public servants. We pay them."
"What the hell do they think we are, puppets?"

Based on past actions?

Bluntly, yes - as a group. You refrained from doing any sort of questioning of Obama's background. You unhesitatingly reported everything Obama tried to push through in glowing terms. Your leads got 'tingles' up their legs (deep vein thrombosis, perhaps? Might want to get that checked out...) when he spoke.

At this point, darlin', you probably shouldn't get your strings in a knot. Yes, you've been there since Warren G. Harding - but you ARE replaceable, and you'd do well to remember that before you start making wild accusations.

Puppets, for all their human appearance, are only useful when they perform their desired function - and they ARE disposable.

"Machiavellian" is the appr... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

"Machiavellian" is the appropriate adjective describing Obama. I have no doubt his handlers are careful students of the Prince. I don't credit the man himself with enough intelligence to implement Machiavelli's strategies. He is an empty suit, but a suit willing and ready to clothe evil.

Ryan: "I don't really do... (Below threshold)

Ryan: "I don't really doubt that she was a "plant" by the Obama administration. Just like "Joe the plumber"."

It was even more insidious in "Joe the Plumber"'s case. He wasn't just "planted" in an audience with a prepared speech...he BOUGHT A HOME in a neighborhood and lived there for years just waiting, like some giant spider, for Barak Obama to enter his web. Why (other that Ryan) is no one talking about this???

How many other people bought homes and are lying wait to "ambush" the Chosen One with a question he isn't prepared for? No wonder the "Town Hall" events have to be so carefully scripted...the President MUST be protected!!

(on a serious note, Ryan, seek professional help...soon)

Mods,Is there any po... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Mods,
Is there any post that Ahole Browne will stay on topic for? I think his mission is to make Wizbang tedious and uninteresting.

You guys spout ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

You guys spout off about morals so god damned much it makes me want to puke, but when people shuffle off to die because they can't afford health care, here in the United States of America, the richest country in the world, while the health insurance fatcats and lobbyists rejoice, it's a travesty.

Ryan, first off don't broad brush everyone as being uncaring and heartless of people who lack health insurance. It's that kind of stupid demagoguery that doesn't advance the debate at all. Republicans and Conservatives want to improve the health care system in this country. Nobody wants to have people uncovered by healthcare.

The problem is that the country is already swimming in debt. We can't afford a bad system. Throwing money at the problem is not going to fix it. No one can wave a magic wand and say all Americans are now covered by health insurance. Whatever changes are made need to be changes that the country can afford and will improve healthcare.

According to the CBO the U.S. already spends a significantly larger percentage of it's GDP on healthcare than the other developed countries in the world. That includes the ones that have single payer systems. That doesn't mean that they have better systems or cheaper healthcare.

If you look around the world at those government run healthcare systems, they are far from perfect. You may be "guaranteed" to be covered, but that doesn't mean you are guaranteed treatment in a timely manner or properly. Those systems severely cut corners in providing health care.

At the end of the day bureaucrats decide who, when and what kind of treatment people get.

The reality is that even under those systems many people do not receive the best treatments and plenty of people die never getting treatment.

I'll give you a simple example, my neighbor is from Wales. She lost her front tooth in an accident. The British health system extracted one of her wisdom teeth and reshaped it to be a front incisor tooth. She was given no other option. She was not even allowed to pay for another option out of her own pocket.

It was a poor and sloppy job. It didn't cost her anything, it looked like crap and caused her recurring pain due to gum loss. She came to the U.S. and was able to get an artificial crown put in that fixed her smile and eliminated the pain of the poorly replaced tooth.

So which system was better? The system that didn't cost her anything or the system that actually fixed the problem?

Ryan -I'm thinking... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Ryan -

I'm thinking you've never lived on a budget, bub. There is NEVER enough money for everything you'd LIKE - you've got to decide on priorities, and some things simply HAVE to take priority over others.

Food. Housing. Utilities. Transportation. Auto Insurance. That's the 5 MAIN categories there. Pay those off, and see what you've got left.

If you don't have enough - you can cut back in some areas, but spending more than you have consistently will fuck you up good and proper down the road, because the bill HAS to be paid and it DOESN'T get smaller.

Now Obama's saying that on top of the 'stimulus' debt, on top of the near 40% reduction in income the IRS is reporting for this year, on top of the expected costs for Cap and Trade (which hasn't been really figured out yet, but will likely be at LEAST $1.6 TRILLION, more likely double or triple that by the time all the economic ramifications have worked their way through the system) on top of the USUAL debt we accumulate each year, you're thinking we HAVE to fund this medical debacle?

With what money, Ryan? Where are we supposed to get it? We've maxed out the credit cards, and it's not going to be long before we start getting calls because we're not making the payments. We are plain friggin' tapped out - the wallet is empty, the vaults have NOTHING left.

Lets see if I fit Ryan's st... (Below threshold)
engineer:

Lets see if I fit Ryan's stereotype.

Never without health insurance - nope. Self employed for the last 15+ years, the last two I got major medical with an HSA.

Rich middle class family - nope. Father was a carpenter, mother stayed at home. Middle income only, definitely not rich.

Immunization costs when I was young weren't all that expensive, but with lawsuits against the drug companies, the price is now a lot higher. I have a good idea what measles and mumps vaccines cost since I paid for them out of pocket (no insurance) for several of my children. Don't recall ever them needing a god-damn immunization. If it protects me from idiots like you, I guess I should have gotten one for my entire family.

As for caring for sick relatives, not yet. As for caring for injured family members, you bet. One son had three eye surgeries. It's amazing even without insurance, the hospital and doctors performed all the surgeries and care. Between my payments and a generous gift from the church I attended, the bill was paid. But, the care was given without the hospital ever hoping to see a single penny. Add another child with a ruptured appendix. Same scenario.

By the way, I worked 30 hours a week to pay for my college, 70 hours a week over the summers. I do have a great job (the owner and boss). I now have health insurance, and I just used up my deductible on foot surgery for my daughter. But even without insurance, since the hospital knew how much I would have to pay before insurance kicked in, they still put a pin in her broken toe. Amazing. Health care, excellent health care I might add, even if you can't pay anything.

Ryan, come down off your cr... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Ryan, come down off your cross. You are not impressing anyone here with your indignation as faux as it is. I was raised very poor. I worked hard and applied myself and climbed out. Funny no one asks her why she does not have insurance. I bet she does have a nice auto, nice home, digital camera, cell phone, etc., but the mean insurance companies want a few hundred of her dollars a month so they can pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment. You are one bizarre fellow Ryan. ww

Im one of those people that... (Below threshold)
Dave:

Im one of those people that Ryan talks about. And Im playing the world's smallest violin.

Ryan, It's people like you, with your mentality and your thought process that make people like myself not really give a crap. I mean I care, but I dont take pity and Im not about to ruin my economic situation so you can have somethings you feel you are entitled to. End of the day. I dont give a crap about you because you dont give a crap about me. You want to spend my money like $hit though a goose and you have no idea what Ive been through to get it.

Is Ryan for real? How can a... (Below threshold)
Michael:

Is Ryan for real? How can anybody be that naive?

Ryan, you are an abject foo... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Ryan, you are an abject fool. State run health care will kill tens of thousands. Leftist idiots like you disengage your brains and run on emotional autopilot. You people care more about the mythical thinning of bird eggs than you do about the survival of poor people. Your meddling, incompetent dogooderism is responsible for untold death and misery.

I just had a eureka moment.... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

I just had a eureka moment....

How about providing your own healthcare insurance? Why should someone else pay your way?


Ryan and Adrian have, chara... (Below threshold)
Occam's Beard:

Ryan and Adrian have, characteristically, totally missed the point: namely, that the whole thing was stage-managed, but purported to be an open townhall. It wasn't. Leni Riefenstahl would have been proud.

It doesn't matter what anyone said in the "townhall." What matters is that it wasn't what it purported to be, a spontaneous event. It was scripted from the get-go.

That's the point.

I did My own studygroup sur... (Below threshold)
914:

I did My own studygroup survey Adrian,

States with the highest liberal ineptitude:

1.) Illinois ( ObambaBiten )
2.) Kalifonia ( ObambaBitenPeglosi )
3.) New Pork ( ObambaBitenDoomberg )
4.) Minneiota ( ObambyBitten )
5.) Massivechussettes ( BarryQusay )
6.) Vermont ( Obamarama )
7.) Hawaii ( Barak 5-Ho )
8.)New Worsy ( Obama )
9.)Connecti-non-cut ( the One )
10.)D.C. (added as a state 1/20/09 ) ( community organizers )

States that are not a deeper shade of purple

1.) Texas ( McPalin )
2.) Wyoming ( McPlain )
3.) Alaska ( Sara Palin )
4.) Montana ( PalinMcCain )
5.) North Dakota ( McPalin )
6.) Utah ( McPalin )
7.) Kansas ( McPalin )
8.) Oklamoma ( McPalin )
9.) Alabama ( ====== )
10.) Israel ( Netanyahu )

I'm another one who doesn't... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

I'm another one who doesn't fit Ryan's broad-brushing and stereo-typing. My mother showed me how to cut a couple pieces of cardboard to slide down into my shoes because they had such large holes in the soles. We used to walk along the side of the road almost daily with mom to pick up pop bottles people trew out of their cars and cash them in for enough money to buy food. I got health insurance for the first time in my life at age 50. When I was pregnant with my daughter I never saw a doctor. I went to the hospital when I went into labor. It took me years to pay that bill off, but I did it - just like every other doctor or emergency care bill I got saddled with over the years.

Ryan, your little tantrum here is the LAST one I'm going to respond to with any sense of decorum. I hate doing this but I save this word only for the most extreme occasions ....

.... While you're waving your "middle finger" in my face, I have only three words for you: Fuck you, Ryan.

Perhaps this will help. The... (Below threshold)
Occam's Beard:

Perhaps this will help. The "townhall" was purporting to be legitimate, like the Super Bowl, when in fact it was more like WWF wrestling.

Does that help?

Do you understand what schu... (Below threshold)
10ksnooker:

Do you understand what schuck and jive act is?

Ryan -Your mother ... (Below threshold)
apb:

Ryan -

Your mother had the spine and fortitude to keep you off the dole as a kid.

How on earth did you not learn from her example, and grow up to be such a willing parasite?

"Ryan" is hitting ALL the b... (Below threshold)
Trajan:

"Ryan" is hitting ALL the blogs today. He
represents a consortium of Acorns bent on
selling this loser Obama as a man of principle
and man of the people. They get orders from
the West Wing on a daily basis. Don't waste
your time arguing with "him". Remember, an
Acorn is just a nut.

Ryan has just made my day. ... (Below threshold)
OLDPUPPYMAX:

Ryan has just made my day. How delightful to hear from a proto-typical useful idiot and self-proclaimed "loser in life's lottery", as Rush likes to describe it. Whenever you are in the middle of one of those "bad days", just think of Ryan. Here is a pure fool who has bought into every claim of victimhood ever filed by leftist users-of-the-easily-led, from Jesse Jackson to Jimmy Carter. His is a life wasted on bile and defeatism, forever in search of a reason to fail and perpetually enraged by those with the determination to succeed. So should you need a lift, think of Ryan and what a blessing it is to not be him.

Only the most loyal bootlic... (Below threshold)
Flu-Bird:

Only the most loyal bootlickers for EMPORER PALPATINE OBAMA were allowed in and theyll soon be wearing red helmets and robes and be carrying pikes to defend their beloved leader

What? You say President Na... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

What? You say President Narcissus has no shame?

And this surprises you because...?

Ryan, First, watch y... (Below threshold)

Ryan,
First, watch your language on Wizbang.
Secondly, you are assuming and making accusations
as to others backgrounds with no regard.
You have no information on who was poor and
who wasn't as children and afterwards. You have
no information on what readers and commenters
are dealing with daily.
How dare you come on Wizbang and shoot the finger to anyone because of your own childishness and blind bias.
I was without any insurance for nearly 9 years,
and dealt with a serious injury during that time. I went to the hospital and was treated
even though I had no insurance. The only reason
I have insurance now is because my husband is
a 100 percent disabled veteran .
Now if you can't use some common sense in
posting at Wizbang, do us all a favor and take
your boorishness elsewhere.

Shawn, perhaps it is you ha... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Shawn, perhaps it is you have no shame. You over look the fact that Bush and McCain regurly hand picked their town hall audiences and planted questions. Yet you criticize Obama for doing it one time.

ONE time? LOL!Tin... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

ONE time? LOL!

Tina, are you REALLY so foolish as to think that Obama's not going to be stacking the deck for EVERY hand?

JLawson,1. If you ... (Below threshold)
TinaS:

JLawson,

1. If you believe that Obama stacked other town hall meetings then back it up.

2. If you criticize Obama for doing it but give Bush, McCain and Palin a free pass than you are a hypocrite.

Tina,1. Stick to t... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

Tina,

1. Stick to the script. Obama is President right now. He should be held to a higher standard.

2. As you and your ilk are so fond of telling us: We lost! So get your head out of the past when dealing with the present.

3. Show me an instance where any of your rebuttal examples used a political affiliate who has cancer as a political prop to help the politician tug on emotional strings in a meeting which was billed an open town hall.

Pathetic.

Show me an instance wher... (Below threshold)
TinaS:

Show me an instance where any of your rebuttal examples used a political affiliate who has cancer as a political prop to help the politician tug on emotional strings in a meeting which was billed an open town hall.

Shawn,

I can top that. Newt Ginrich not only shamelessly flaunted his wifes cancer while running for office in 1978. Eighteen months later he brought her divorce papers to sign while she was recovering in the hospitol. It gets worse.

She had undergone uterine cancer surgery during the successful 1978 campaign, which Gingrich was not averse to mentioning in his speeches. Eighteen months later, they separated. While in the hospital recovering from another uterine operation, according to his friend Lee Howell, ""Newt came up there with his yellow legal pad, and he had a list of things on how the divorce was going to be handled. He wanted her to sign it. She was still recovering from surgery, still sort of 'out of it,' and he comes in with a yellow sheet of paper, handwritten, and wants her to sign it." According to Howell, friends in her church had to raise money for the separated wife of the congressman and her daughters. Later, Jackie Battley Gingrich went to court for adequate support, before the divorce decree. In his financial statement, Gingrich reported providing $400 per month, plus $40 in allowances for his daughters. Gringrich claimed to be unable to afford more, but the same financial statement lists his expenditures for his food/dry cleaning etc. (one person) as $400.[31]

In 1981, six months after his divorce was final, Gingrich wed Marianne Ginther.[32] He remained married to Ginther until 2000, when they divorced. Shortly thereafter, Gingrich then married Callista Bisek, with whom he was conducting an extra-marital affair at approximately the same time he was leading the Congressional investigation into allegations that Bill Clinton lied under oath about his affair with Monica Lewinsky.

<a href="http://gatewaypund... (Below threshold)
Tina,Once again, s... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

Tina,

Once again, stick to what is actually being discussed.

You could not back up your claims against any of the examples you gave.

And when exactly was Newt Gingrich President?

Shawn,All of my co... (Below threshold)
TinaS:

Shawn,

All of my comments are on topic.

I will give you some advice. If you want people to respect your opinion you must have consistency in your beliefs.

I find it odd that a man such as yourself who sees things in absolute right and wrongs is able to make so many fine fine distinctions in defending republicans over democrats.

Basically you are saying it is shamefull for a president to stack town halls meeting after he is elected president, but OK when republicans do it to get elected.

It is shamefull for Obama to use a confession of a cancer patient to push his bill. But OK, for someone who was in the highest leadership role in the republican party to flaunt his wifes cancer in speeches while running for office.

Tina you twit Shawn said no... (Below threshold)
Michael:

Tina you twit Shawn said nothing that you said he said. Nothing. If this is the best you can do...then please go way back to Kos whence you came.
Why are libs so dim?

Tina, you're moving the goa... (Below threshold)
qrstuv:

Tina, you're moving the goalposts. The problem with Obama's planted cancer case is that it substitutes emotion for reason as a way of
"arguing" for a law that affects everyone.

Instead, you cite Gingrinch being public about his personal life. He wasn't using that to "prove" something.

Michael,This was m... (Below threshold)
TinaS:

Michael,

This was my comment:

Shawn, perhaps it is you have no shame. You over look the fact that Bush and McCain regurly hand picked their town hall audiences and planted questions. Yet you criticize Obama for doing it one time.

This was Shawns rebuttal:

Obama is President right now. He should be held to a higher standard.


Tina, you're moving the ... (Below threshold)
TinaS:

Tina, you're moving the goalposts. The problem with Obama's planted cancer case is that it substitutes emotion for reason as a way of "arguing" for a law that affects everyone.

Do you mean like the republicans used Terry Schiavo?

"I find it odd that a man s... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

"I find it odd that a man such as yourself who sees things in absolute right and wrongs is able to make so many fine fine distinctions in defending republicans over democrats."

Tina,

Please show me where in my article I defended Republicans over democrats.

You dredge up something that happened almost 30 years ago about someone who has never been president.

These are "fine fine distinctions" to you?

You are creating strawmen to attempt to stay on topic. Your topic.


obimbo is a bad joke... (Below threshold)
F.T.D.-:

obimbo is a bad joke

The flaws in Republican arg... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

The flaws in Republican arguments against Obama's healthcare plans are:
1. Obama is NOT asking for a single-payer plan. He supports a public OPTION to COMPETE with private ones, thus lowering costs.
2.We already have rationing, and bureaucrats making healthcare decisions instead of doctors and patients. The difference is, they're insurance company wonks instead of government wonks.
As for stage management of town halls, what was good enough for GWB is good enough for BHO.

Everybody, take note that T... (Below threshold)
CH:

Everybody, take note that Tina has not actually addressed the fact that Obama is manipulating the press and the public by using plants at his supposedly "open" forums with the public. This is a critical fact. Do not forget that she has not yet actually even tried to rebut that what he's doing is wrong.

Don't let them change the conversation. Their president, their Congress, their problem. We have put forth that what Obama is doing is shameful and disgusting; liberals have yet to rebut. Tina has brought up GWB and (inexplicably) Newt Gingrich, but has yet to address what Obama is accused of.

And Bruce just did the same... (Below threshold)
CH:

And Bruce just did the same thing. People, they have NO answer and NO defense for what Obama is doing. This is why 2010 will be good for Republicans. Democrats aren't even attempting to offer up a defense for what they're doing. A defense means you defend why your actions are correct. Pointing out that GWB did the same thing-- which is particularly hypocritical since they hailed Obama as being the anti-Bush-- is not a defense.

Please show me where in ... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Please show me where in my article I defended Republicans over democrats.

Shawn,

I said you you overlooked republicans for doing the same thing. If you want to disprove what I said than point out one article or comment you have written criticizing republicans for stacking town hall meetings.

Right.The outrage is... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Right.
The outrage is so selective.
Jeff Gannon? Remember him?
I wasn't outraged when, for EIGHT LONG YEARS, Bush's handlers stage-managed every single "town hall" event he participated in. (Longer, if you include the 2000 campaign.) Apparently, neither were you guys, because none of you said ONE WORD about it when Bush did it.
Now, suddenly, stage-managing "town hall" type events is wrong, wrong, wrong. But it wasn't before! IOKIYAR!

Everybody, take note tha... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Everybody, take note that Tina has not actually addressed the fact that Obama is manipulating the press and the public by using plants at his supposedly "open" forums with the public. This is a critical fact. Do not forget that she has not yet actually even tried to rebut that what he's doing is wrong.

CH,

It was wrong for Obama to stack the forum.

With that said, lets not forget that Shawn and many others are criticizing democrats for doing things that republicans have been doing on a larger scale. Its called hypocrisy and is the reason you guys have no credibility.

The difference between Jeff... (Below threshold)
Michael:

The difference between Jeff Gannon and what Obama is doing is that he is doing all the time! It is a policy. If Helen Thomas can get outraged by the manipulation maybe Bruce and Tina can too...but I doubt it.

Again, Michael. Eigh... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Again, Michael.
Eight years.
Every single "town hall" event carefully stage-managed, audience members and their questions carefully pre-screened.
Not one word of protest out of you, or any of the other commenters here who are so selectively outraged.
Why, I'm shocked...SHOCKED...to find that a politician is attempting to control his message!

Bruce,You forgot t... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Bruce,

You forgot to mention the following:

1. From 2003 through the second quarter of 2005 the Bush administration spent about $1.6 billion of tax payers money on public relations firms, advertising agencies, media organizations and individuals to promote Bush's agenda.

2. Conservative radio host Armstrong Wiliams was paid $186,000 from the Education Department to speak favorably about President Bush's No Child Left Behind law in broadcast appearances.

3. The Bush White House manufactured fake news stories and passed them on to TV stations.


"On issues from Medicare to farm prices, hundreds of local stations are running stories extolling Bush administration policies, reaching tens of millions of people.

"But all these reports were written and distributed by the administration and its public relations firms -- not by journalists."

If you want more info on this google Bush Fake News or go here

It is beyound me how anyone can be so critical of Obama stacking a town hall meeting and say that Obama has no shame and not consider what Bush did to be even more shameful.

"Shawn, I said you... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

"Shawn,

I said you you overlooked republicans for doing the same thing. If you want to disprove what I said than point out one article or comment you have written criticizing republicans for stacking town hall meetings."

For Christ's sake, Tina.

I did not overlook anything. I am commenting on a specific instance concerning Obama and his meeting.

The onus does not befall on me to "disprove" what you are saying.

You are not even willing to comment on Obama's townhall bullshit on its merits alone.

THAT is what I wrote about, and that is what this thread is about.

If I wanted to point out the times republicans and democrats were guilty of the same action, I would.

You don't have the guts to be critical of Obama. Just admit that.

Just because you repeat yourself over and over does not mean what you proclaim becomes a truth.

You have exposed yourself as a hack.

TinaSSo on your</... (Below threshold)

TinaS
So on your word, you have credibility and no one who disagrees with you has none.
And we can take your word to the bank and cash
it in for what?

Bruce Henry, You've... (Below threshold)

Bruce Henry,
You've gone through 8 years of archived
topics and their comments and back up your
allegation 100 percent.
What you are doing is projecting.

You don't have the guts ... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

You don't have the guts to be critical of Obama. Just admit that.

Thats not true, I said in post #55 that Obama was wrong to stack town hall meetings.


Shawn, do you have the guts to admit that Bush has no shame?

The Bush administration also stacked town halls. They also did additional things that far exceeded Obama in manipulating the media. They spent $1.6 billion of tax payers money on public relations firms, advertising agencies, media organizations and individuals to promote Bush's agenda.

They paid conservative radio hosts and writers as much as $186,000 each to promote the Bush administration agenda.

TinaS What is the to... (Below threshold)

TinaS
What is the topic of this post? Is it Bush
OR is it Obama.
Your only defense for his actions is to
point out some one elses actions.

Maggie,The topic i... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Maggie,

The topic is the shamelessness of manipulating the press.

Tina, The subject is... (Below threshold)

Tina,
The subject is of OBAMA manipulating the press.

Sorry, but it is a valid cr... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Sorry, but it is a valid criticism of an article criticising Obama to point out that the previous administration did EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

And, no, Maggie, I didn't go through 8 years of archives before I said "not one word of protest."

But I bet I'm right.

If YOU'D like to go through them and find an article, or even a comment by one of your regular conservative commenters, criticising GWB for the practice, knock yourself out.


I promise I'll cheerfully admit I was wrong if proved so.

Bruce Henry You made... (Below threshold)

Bruce Henry
You made the statement, you own it.
It's up to you to prove your allegation.
Knock yourself out buddy, the onerous is on you.
Otherwise you're just a loud mouth.

Sorry, I'm too lazy.<... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Sorry, I'm too lazy.

I do notice that no one has said, "I criticised Bush for this very thing on such-and-such a date." Seems like they would, if they had.

And, again, if a conservative author writes a piece blasting Obama for stage-managing town halls, and fails to mention that Bush did the same thing for 8 years, pointing that out is valid criticism.

Bruce,You are wast... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Bruce,

You are wasting your time with Maggie. I have never seen Maggie make a logical argument. All she does is hurl insults and tell people to back it up with sources.

I'm not gonna pick a fight ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

I'm not gonna pick a fight with Maggie, she's the moderator.

Every time there's a GOP sex scandal (Craig, Vitter, Sanford), the Republican defense is, "What about Clinton and Edwards?"

But when you say, "What about Bush?", when discussing stage-management, you're "off-topic" and "gutless."

I don't get it.

The "onus" is on me, not th... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

The "onus" is on me, not the "onerous."

Bruce,If you want ... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Bruce,

If you want to see how dense Maggie is check out.

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/06/15/on-political-hate.php#comments


Look at her comments in relation to TrueBlue. She does not make a lick of sense in any of her comments.

Mr.Henry, The topic ... (Below threshold)

Mr.Henry,
The topic of this thread is Obama, not
Bush.
You still own it.

Tina, You are full o... (Below threshold)

Tina,
You are full of BS.
Much the same loud mouth as Henry.
You both come to Wizbang not to debate and
disagree civilly, but to leave snide, harsh,
and unfounded comments. Then expecting some one
else to do your leg work substantiating your
allegations.
And if you disrespect the comment section editor
as you did above, I've got a mighty big shovel
for you.

Henry, Once again, b... (Below threshold)

Henry,
Once again, back up your allegation.

Henry, Thanks for th... (Below threshold)

Henry,
Thanks for the correction.

Tina, You are simply... (Below threshold)

Tina,
You are simply amazing. This is not your house,
nor is it your blog. Yet you waltz in with the
attitude you are top dog and anything you do
or say will be with no consequences.
Is this the attitude you walk through life with?
If so, you're in for a huge and probably
unpleasant surprise
And your contempt of this site and its' editors
puts you on mighty thin ice.
YOU have NO power here, and it makes you crazy.

OK, Maggie, you got me. I a... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

OK, Maggie, you got me. I am obviously not gonna go through 8 years of Wizbang archives, so, I'll admit I made a statement I can't, or rather won't, verify.

But I still bet I'm right, so here goes.

Anyone out there who wants to go through the archives and find me ONE example of a conservative commenter or author on Wizbang, criticising Bush for stage-managing town halls, is welcome to do so. The first person who links to one in the next 6 hours, I'll pay $25, if Shawn or someone wants to forward the check or otherwise facilitate this.

As for comment #74, I don't think I've left any snide or harsh remarks. I already admitted I left an unsubstantiated one.
I didn't call anyone names -- not a "loudmouth" or anything else.

And I don't speak for this ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

And I don't speak for this Tina, but I do indeed come here to debate and disagree civilly, as Mr Mallow will attest, I think. A little smart-alecky, maybe, and sometimes not as clever as I thought I was, but not un-civil.

Henry, Your refutati... (Below threshold)

Henry,
Your refutation is accepted.

you bush bashers are nut ca... (Below threshold)
jimbo:

you bush bashers are nut cases there talking
about obimbo the worse pres we ever had and all
you can say is bush made it rain today




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