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Pelosi's Swastika Claim Is A Crock

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) proclaimed that those attending health care town hall meetings are "carrying swastikas." You can watch her say it below:


Interviewer: Do you think there's legitimate grassroot opposition going on here?

Pelosi: "I think they're Astroturf... You be the judge. "They're carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on healthcare."


If one were to take her at her word, surely the Nutroots (Netroots) would have been all over this story and can corroborate her assertion, right?

Wrong...

I ventured into the fever swamp to find confirmation of the Speaker's allegations. I went to the largest community sites searching for "Swastika." Surely that would turn up confirmation of the Speaker's claim.

Here's what I found...

[Note: Links are to search results that will change over time. Anything dated after 8/5/09 is an after the fact post or comment that would, in effect, be Astroturfing for Pelosi's statement.]

Daily Kos (Stories and Diaries) - 2 results, 1 related. The related report (about defending liberal turf on health care) contains no report of health care protest attendees wearing swastikas. Verdict: No corroboration

Think Progress - 1 result dated back to 2008, unrelated. Verdict: No corroboration

Firedoglake - 3 results, none related. Verdict: No corroboration

Google Blog Search - None related, one post calling B.S., and there was this from a recent Austin, Minnesota immigration reform debate, where an actual member of the Socialist Party is said to have worn a t-shirt with a swastika. Verdict: No corroboration

But finally, the comment sewer at Daily Kos did reap a reward...

Daily Kos Comment Search - Mostly non-related, but there is one comment which appears to be the source of Pelosi's contention. Here we find the one and only reference to someone (a kid) supposedly wearing a swastika to an event in Austin two weeks ago. Verdict: Possible source

With that to go on I found this report about the Austin event. No mention of swastikas in the report, but there was one comment mentioning a sign with swastikas. Verdict: Another possible source

The Daily Kos comment and the Burnt Orange Report comment are ostensibly about the same event but one person supposedly saw a kid with a swastika and another saw a sign. The Burnt Orange Report post indicates that there were only 40 or so protestors. The Burnt Orange Report comment indicates that there was media covering the event, yet none of the media noticed the swastikas? Seems pretty unlikely. More likely the two commenters were embellishing for a crowd (the other commenters) who were all too happy to believe whatever they said.

Aparently comment sections liberal blogs is where the Speaker of the House, number three in line to the Presidency, gets her information.

Verdict: Bullshit


Update: Adrian points out the video here. I made a screen cap...

doggetprotest.jpg


Verdict: Not Swastikas, Still Bullshit

Update 2: Let's be clear, I'm not naive enough to suggest that that it's not possible that somewhere a swastika was displayed on one of the tens of thousands of signs that have been carried. Speaker Pelosi made is sound like it was common, and I showed that prior to her statement not only was it not common, there was no evidence to back up her claim.

Today, over a day later, Sam Stein at The Huffington Post gets sent a thumbnail showing a female with a sign containing a swastika.


s-FTCOLLINS-large.jpg


His interpretation of the sign is a little odd, it seems pretty clear that the crude message of the sign means, "no nazism" or "no socialism," and the "? Obama" subheading wonders whether Obama supports socialism or nazism. Honestly it's a pretty weak poster.

I did a little more digging and found over 130 high resolution photos of the event in this gallery. I looked through all 133 pictures with a fine tooth comb for the lady with the sign that someone sent to Sam Stein. I found the right where she should be...


pic1.jpg pic2.jpg


Guess who is missing, from these and every one of the other 133 pictures?

The lady with the swastika sign...


Update 3: Read the follow-up piece which wrapps things up. The lady with the swastika sign has been found in the 133 picutures, but there's much more to the story.


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Comments (96)

Pelosi: "I think they're... (Below threshold)
Bill M:

Pelosi: "I think they're Astroturf... You be the judge. "They're carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on healthcare."


Kevin's verdict: Verdict: Bullshit

Once again, Nancy lies. 'Bout par for the course for her!


No evidence from any person... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

No evidence from any person who was there except the wingnuts so to speak. So is this really a problem, and if so, how is this going to help/hurt the taxpayers?

The aging princess has run ... (Below threshold)
Trajan:

The aging princess has run out of flesh to
re-arrange. The gnarly "pea" in her mattress
is her own ego. America is tiring of her
lack of grace. She's the pit bull that the
SF crowd loves. Many others in America think
that she's overstayed her welcome. Third
in line for the presidency.......wow!

Aparently comment sectio... (Below threshold)

Aparently comment sections liberal blogs is where the Speaker of the House, number three in line to the Presidency, gets her information.

Hmm. I wonder who reads them to her?

Nancy Pelosi is losing her ... (Below threshold)
Ray:

Nancy Pelosi is losing her bearings.

This is an act of extreme desperation on her part, and it seems to shows that she will sink to whatever level she has to to demonize those who oppose hers and other liberal's agenda.

I've seen/heard some ridiculous charges (with no proof to back them up) concerning the town hall protests, but this clearly takes the cake.

Why don't you call her offi... (Below threshold)
The Obvious One:

Why don't you call her office and ask her?

Afraid the answer won't fit your conspiracy theory or "evidence"?

You're not afraid of the truth are you? I mean, are you really suggesting that because you can't find evidence supporting Pelosi it doesn't exist? Seriously?

Obviously just asking her would answer the question. I'm looking forward to your follow-up story giving us the answer, Kevin.

Pelosi made the accusation ... (Below threshold)
Ray:

Pelosi made the accusation about protestors carrying swastikas, not Kevin.

Therefore, you need to keep your focus on Pelosi and not use diversionary tactics by trying to divert the attention away from what Pelosi said to Kevin. No need for the apparent hominem attacks by calling this a conspiracy theory, either.

Focus, focus on Pelosi. It is she that should be the focus.

Hey, Jack Ass, Shawn Mallow... (Below threshold)
Larry Dickman:

Hey, Jack Ass, Shawn Mallow's claim of "Nazi propaganda poster" is the same bullshit. You know, three posts before yours.

His last line was: "Who makes this crap up?"

Answer: Wizbang

Funny to hear her say this,... (Below threshold)
James:

Funny to hear her say this, considering at dozens of anti-bush rallies there were pictures of bush and the swastika on the same page.

I can envision that there probably have been some nazi fascism comparisons by people from the hard right, but she almost implies that Nazis are actually showing up.

Hey, Jack Ass, Shawn Mal... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Hey, Jack Ass, Shawn Mallow's claim of "Nazi propaganda poster" is the same bullshit. You know, three posts before yours.

What the hell are you talking about? Shawn Mallow's post is a discussion about symbolism being used by Obama. Something actually being used.

This post is about Pelosi's statement about something that did not happen or exist. In other words, her lying and/or hallucinating.

You guys don't make sense at all. I swear, the left is coming unhinged.

. . . she almost implie... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

. . . she almost implies that Nazis are actually showing up.

Exactly. "Astroturf" means someone else is working behind the scenes. "Swastikas" means that the someone else is a Nazi group. It does not matter to Pelosi whether any swastikas were there, she has made her false little point.

This is the "iwogisdead corollary" to Godwin's Law: when the left sees that they are losing any discussion or debate, they will invariably refer to their political opponents as Nazis, Hilter Youth, or the KKK.

This is the "iwogisdead ... (Below threshold)
John Irving:

This is the "iwogisdead corollary" to Godwin's Law: when the left sees that they are losing any discussion or debate, they will invariably refer to their political opponents as Nazis, Hilter Youth, or the KKK.

wWhich is deliberate, of course, as they are the ones actively promoting fascism and racism.

Pretty much if you want to know what the left is up to, look to their insults and accusations. . . it's all projection and deflection.

The Botox has fossilized he... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

The Botox has fossilized her brain and she's getting flashbacks of the good old days... back when Bush was in charge and the Dems didn't have a majority, so they could trot out all sorts of crap without any fear of being held accountable for what they were saying.

Dissent was patriotic - and the more extreme and over the top the dissent, the better! Bush as Hitler? Bush as the Devil? Burned effigies? Big puppets? EVERYTHING WAS GOOD AND JUSTIFIABLE, BECAUSE BUSH WANTED TO SILENCE OPPOSITION!

But now THEY are in charge. And suddenly, dissent is treason. You're supposed to send 'fishy' emails to the White House. No disagreement is allowed - Obama 'won', so suck it up and get in line for your ration of Unicorn Gold Healthcare.

Sorry - it doesn't work like that. What was good and right and proper in the demonstrations against Bush is just as good and right and proper in demonstrations against Obama. You should be proud, on the left. We learned our lessons well - you were EXCELLENT examples.

And you were right. Dissent IS patriotic. LOUD dissent, preferably - otherwise the people WE elected to office, who are responsible to US for the bills they pass, just don't listen.

So you folks on the left don't complain - you showed us how to do it!

I sent an email to the heal... (Below threshold)
retired military:

I sent an email to the healthcare whitehouse informant line with a link to that video.

I also asked "The dems hadnt used swatiskas since Bush had left office so why let them go to waste?."

iwogisdead -I s... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

iwogisdead -

I swear, the left is coming unhinged.

Hell, that was apparent when they started calling themselves 'reality based' - when the 'reality' they were basing themselves on had very little congruence with the reality most of us find ourselves in.

And they just can't understand our rejection of their delusions. Go figure!

Don't put it past the party... (Below threshold)

Don't put it past the party of Alinsky..remember, he told a bunch of students to dress up like KKK members to "support" George H Bush in the 70's.

A simple google search turn... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

A simple google search turned this up from August 4th and is perhaps what Pelosi is referring to:

In this YouTube video of the Doggett riot you can see a sign with Nazi-style "SS" lettering on it.

http://d-day.blogspot.com/2009/08/violence-of-right.html

Pelosi lying- nothing new.<... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Pelosi lying- nothing new.

Pelosi pointing her finger while ignoring her other three fingers pointing back at herself- nothing new.

A democrat dengrating the opposition rather than honesting adressing the substance of their opposition- nothing new.

The Dims are self-destructi... (Below threshold)
Michael:

The Dims are self-destructing.

My guess is that some libs ... (Below threshold)
daisey:

My guess is that some libs will take Pelosi's cue and start showing up at Townhall meetings with very obvious swastikas on their clothing and carrying Nazi signs. Idiots don't realize that the Nazi party was the SOCIALIST party in Germany. Nazi stands for National Socialist. Poor Queen Nancy can't take the disapproval. And then there's Chuck Schumer saying the Health Care bill will get passed whether the American people want it or not. So much for representing the people. This is about their power.

Adrian -Don't you ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Adrian -

Don't you get it yet? THAT'S OKAY! The precedent has already been established through 8 years of DEMOCRATIC protesting - it's free speech so you're a trifle late to be getting upset by it!

DNC Memo dated 8/4 cites pr... (Below threshold)
smobooks:

DNC Memo dated 8/4 cites protestors' "use of Nazi SS symbols and the like." The RNC is sending this memo around in emails (full text below)
+++++++++++++++++++++++


From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 4:03:58 PM
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: DNC Statement on Republican Mob Rule
For Immediate Release
Date: August 4, 2009
Contact: DNC Press Office
Phone: 202-863-8148

Statement from DNC Communications Director Brad Woodhouse on the Republican Party and Allied Groups' Mob Rule

The Republicans and their allied groups - desperate after losing two consecutive elections and every major policy fight on Capitol Hill - are inciting angry mobs of a small number of rabid right wing extremists funded by K Street Lobbyists to disrupt thoughtful discussions about the future of health care in America taking place in Congressional Districts across the country.

However, much like we saw at the McCain-Palin rallies last year where crowds were baited with cries of 'socialist,' 'communist,' and where the birthers movement was born - these mobs of extremists are not interested in having a thoughtful discussion about the issues - but like some Republican leaders have said - they are interested in 'breaking' the President and destroying his Presidency.

These mobs are bussed in by well funded, highly organized groups run by Republican operatives and funded by the special interests who are desperately trying to stop the agenda for change the President was elected to bring to Washington. Despite the headline grabbing nature of these angry mobs and their disruptions of events, they are not reflective of where the American people are on the issues - or the hundreds of thousands of thoughtful discussions taking place around kitchen tables, water coolers and in homes.

The right wing extremists' use of things like devil horns on pictures of our elected officials, hanging members of Congress in effigy, breathlessly questioning the President's citizenship and the use of Nazi SS symbols and the like just shows how outside of the mainstream the Republican Party and their allies are. This type of anger and discord did not serve Republicans well in 2008 - and it is bound to backfire again.

A simple google search t... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

A simple google search turned this up from August 4th and is perhaps what Pelosi is referring to:
In this YouTube video of the Doggett riot you can see a sign with Nazi-style "SS" lettering on it.

Riiiight. There's one picture of one sign with "stylized" lettering, and Pelosi suddenly has grounds to label American citizens who disagree with her as Nazis. This is the House Speaker, for God's sake. Maybe she should read that part of the First Amendment that talks about petitioning for redress of grievances.

No, Adrian, it's the iwogisdead corollary in action. No doubt about it. By the way, calling a peaceful group of dissenting Americans a "riot" is pretty banal and crass, don't you think?

Only in America where a wom... (Below threshold)
mag:

Only in America where a woman who should be in a mental hospital is in a seat of power.
The bigger idiots are the ones who keep voting her in. Yeah, liberalism is a mental disease.

The Democrats' hypocrisy is... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

The Democrats' hypocrisy is simply stunning. Are they really that obtuse?

I'm starting to think that what this country needs is a national recall election.

In a recent Dennis Prager c... (Below threshold)

In a recent Dennis Prager column he bemoaned the fact that a lot of non-blacks (no matter how they voted) thought that Obama's election "would mean the end or at least the beginning of the end of the black and liberal view of America as racist" only to find out that we were naive, that it's still business as usual.

To that I would add that a lot of us in the middle and on the right probably thought that his election would cure a lot of BDS on the left. Again, we were clearly naive. While the rage and incoherency is beginning to shift from Bush, it's clearly still there.

I'm suprised Pelosi didn't ... (Below threshold)
Hank:

I'm suprised Pelosi didn't accuse some of the protesters of being CIA.

I haven't seen this much de... (Below threshold)
Weegie:

I haven't seen this much demonization of citizens since the 1930's in Germany...

" My guess is that some lib... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

" My guess is that some libs will take Pelosi's cue and start showing up at Townhall meetings with very obvious swastikas on their clothing and carrying Nazi signs. "

Bingo.
The Tea Parties and Townhall meetings are really getting under their skin. The question is, how do we handle these shenanigans?

"I'm suprised Pelosi did... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"I'm suprised Pelosi didn't accuse some of the protesters of being CIA."

That's for next week. There's a script, and you don't get these things out of order!

Pelosi and the rest of demo... (Below threshold)
Dart:

Pelosi and the rest of democrats who worship the Liar and Chief are trying desperately to accuse those who appose them of the very things they are guilty of, fascism. The rich Pelosi, with her power mad botox ridden face, is a liar and the thief! They will plant protesters no doubt next. This will only make us angrier, so look out Speaker Botox! We know your tricks and deceptions all too well, and how you and the rest of the Nazis (also known as democrats) now in office are getting your brown shirts to do your dirty work.

I am very happy and encoura... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

I am very happy and encouraged. The hate motivated left is looking so desperate and silly that even a forth grader can spot it. They are actually going crazier by the day. They asked americans to look at healthcare, they did and they noticed it had problems but was not a crisis as Obama lied about. So, now they are attacking our citizens. I knew this empty suit would fail, but I did not think this soon. So, be encouraged. The left is giving the right plenty of commercials to run in the 2010 cycle.

Okay liberals, turn this comment into your master. ww

If you want to protest Obam... (Below threshold)
Red:

If you want to protest ObamaCare and attend a rally, carry a poster with this on it: A photo of Hillary Clinton, and these words:

"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you are not patriotic, and we should stand up and say, We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration.""

A person who calls himself ... (Below threshold)
Still An Unrepentant Democrat:

A person who calls himself "still sane" writes #32 and then is followed by WildWillie! This is better than a comedy show. Psssst, "stillsane" there are meds that help folks like you.

PELOSI VINDICATED!!!<... (Below threshold)

PELOSI VINDICATED!!!

I took about a half-hour last night and did sime searching of my own, and found plenty of examples of swastikas and nazi imagery being used to protest the policies of our president.

Smoking gun here.

Oh, wait...never mind.

Compare the photo in the ab... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Compare the photo in the above video cap (the stylized SS) to the symbol used by the German Schutzstaffel (SS) seen here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_Schutzstaffel.svg

It is not a swastika. Pelosi was confused. It was the symbol for the Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei), or Secret State Police in Nazi Germany.

I'm not sure of the symbolism meant by the sign bearer. The Gestapo was a police force that was allowed to operate in an extrajudicial manner, sort of like the CIA or Blackwater under George W. Bush.

I called Speaker Pelosi's o... (Below threshold)

I called Speaker Pelosi's office and posted the conversation on my blog:
http://panzramic.com/index.php?q=node/366

Can someone explain how the... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Can someone explain how these town hall lynchings, to use the words of Rep. Todd Akin (R-MO), are productive in furthering the well-being of the citizens of this country? Is this what Republicans call a dialog? When disagreements arise, is it productive to fashion large, angry mobs who yell and shout-down our elected officials? How does this solve problems?

Do you feel it is fair for people to do this to members of Congress who are from a different district? Does a Representative from a district other than my Congressional District have a duty to listen to my concerns over the concerns of his/her constituents?

You Leftist trolls are conf... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

You Leftist trolls are confusing Obama protesters with Obama supporters.

Nancy was taped saying that... (Below threshold)

Nancy was taped saying that people attending town hall meetings were "carrying swastikas."

abcNEWS.com has nothing on it. If a Republican said anything like this, the MSM would be on it like white on rice.

Never forget that Liberals hold complete contempt for America.

You can watch the Pelosi comment here, and stick around for more good content.

http://libertarianhumor.com/2009/08/06/pelosi-town-hall/

Nancy....................GE... (Below threshold)
Katie:

Nancy....................GET OFF THE KOOL-AID!!!

"The first group I came acr... (Below threshold)
Rob:

"The first group I came across on Congress Parkway was communists for Obama, a fitting reminder that not all Obama supporters are patriotic Americans."

So, is it true, as Kim Priestep wrote, that one cannot believe in a communal society (i.e., believe in communism or socialism) and be an American? I didn't realize one's political philosophy qualified or disqualified you from being a patriotic American (i.e., someone who loves the United States of America). Maybe one of you can provide me with a list of approved political parties, ones that qualify you to be a patriotic American, and a list of unapproved political parties that disqualify you. Please also tell me who it is that has the authority to approve or disapprove of someone else's political beliefs.

Actually, BigEd, your quote... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Actually, BigEd, your quote is not entirely accurate. Pelosi stated:

there were people "carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on healthcare."

It's always better to provide the entire quote, so context and accuracy are not lost. I think the term "symbols like that" must mean symbols used in Nazi Germany, like the stylized SS seen on one protester's sign.

I thought you had to presen... (Below threshold)
Rick:

I thought you had to present your Democrat party credentials to get in her meeting, so I cut a picture of a swastika out of a magazine. I got right in.

So, is it true, as Kim P... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

So, is it true, as Kim Priestep wrote, that one cannot believe in a communal society (i.e., believe in communism or socialism) and be an American?

Rob,

Of course you can believe anything you like and be an American (duh). You can't be a Communist and be a patriotic American inasmuch as the two societies/philosophies are are antithetical. It would be tantamount to being a Christian Satan worshiper. The fact that you need this explained to you indicates why you are an Obama supporter and a stupid pseudo-intellectual.

Just curious Kevin -- have ... (Below threshold)
The Obvious One:

Just curious Kevin -- have you called Pelosi's office and asked for her source of "swastikas" yet?

Or is there some reason you're avoiding asking her or her staff the question?

You obviously spent hours researching the answer - and yet failed throughout that process to ask Pelosi, and appear reluctant to do so now.

Is there a reason why the truth and facts have no room in your effort to label Pelosi a liar?

It's simple - ask her. Just pick up the phone and call her office and ask. It'll take 10 mins tops.

But maybe -- just maybe -- she'll give you the source behind the remarks she made, and obviously that frightens you.

Go on - ask her.

Jeff Blogworthy,FA... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Jeff Blogworthy,

FAIL

Ad hominem attacks are used by people with no ability to conduct a reasonable argument.

Plus your argument is wrong. Communism is a political system where property is held in common and the government controls the means of production or use. How is this antithetical to patriotism? I believe the government should hold parks, forests, and other lands that belong to the people of the United States in common and that they should control these lands for the common good. I believe that the government should collect taxes and spend them for the common good on roads, bridges, airports, armed forces, police, hospitals, and other communal items. My guess is that most people feel the same way. Are they unpatriotic?

Plus your argument is wr... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Plus your argument is wrong. Communism is a political system where property is held in common and the government controls the means of production or use. How is this antithetical to patriotism?

Gee, I don't know. Could it be the practical examples of the despotism and upwards of 100 million dead that we have already seen as a result of that particular systems' implementation?

Or could it be that our founding fathers knew that private ownership of property, keeping the fruit of one's own labor, and liberty are inextricably linked as they so eloquently and often argued? Indeed our political system rests on the idea.

Whatever the case, I refuse to engage in a war of words over something so patently obvious. One may as well argue whether the sky is really blue. Blather on.

Jeff Blogworthy,Te... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Jeff Blogworthy,

Textbook example of a red herring. What the so-called Communist Party did in the USSR is absolutely irrelevant to discussions of communism and patriotism.

Keep it up, you get the whole list of fallacious arguments before you're through.

FAIL again.

How nice of you to keep dec... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

How nice of you to keep declaring yourself superior. I'll leave it for others to judge. People like you are why the country is going to hell in a hand basket.

There is a difference betwe... (Below threshold)
Rob:

There is a difference between correct and incorrect, and both are different from superior and inferior.

I simply pointed out that you are, in fact, using a fallacious argument to bolster your viewpoint, thereby making your viewpoint questionable.

By the way, your statement that I have declared myself superior to you is a form of appeal to pity. I did no such thing, and you are trying to make yourself pitiful for having been picked upon.

Jeff, you used to be a hell... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Jeff, you used to be a hell of a lot more civil, but since a liberal won the White House you've totally flown off the deep end. I hope that you aren't as miserable in real life as you appear to be in these comment threads.

Yes, there are people with ... (Below threshold)
Carol:

Yes, there are people with swastikas and that is an SS sign. You know, as in the Hitler army? Don't any of you do actual unbiased research? Obviously not.

Research to a Republican me... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Research to a Republican means the same as research to a creationist: formulate an opinion, and then find bits and pieces of facts to back yourself up. Reality be damned.

It is clear from the card t... (Below threshold)
Ray:

It is clear from the card that that man is carrying in the pic that he is associating socialism with the nazi party. The last of the two s's (nazi ss) is followed by ocialism.

And the nazi party was indeed in favor of a national health care plan and implemented it. They were also in favor of womb to the tomb benefits, and implemented that as well. When they took the reins of government, they fully implemented both, and took over the banks and the automobile industry as well. These are indisputable historical facts.

Sound familiar?

It sure looks like Nancy Pelosi was trying to infer that the town hall protestors were sympathetic to the nazi party, which is totally shameful on her part and indicative of the level that she will sink to in order to advance her agenda as Speaker of the House.

What a *****.

...and the banking and auto... (Below threshold)
Rob:

...and the banking and auto industries in the US were doing SO well before the government took over.

FAIL

Ray: seriously? "Hitler imp... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Ray: seriously? "Hitler implemented a national health care plan, so anyone else who does it is HITLER!!!"

Hitler was also a vegetarian; ergo, VEGETARIANS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HOLOCAUST!!!

Are you really so stupid as to believe what you posted?

I suppose you'll write a... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I suppose you'll write a retraction now that pictures of people with swastika signs have appeared?

Nope. As Kevin note, anything that appears on the internet after this post is astroturf. Just, you know, because.

Anything dated after 8/5/09 is an after the fact post or comment that would, in effect, be Astroturfing for Pelosi's statement.

Can't argue with that reasoning, can you?

I actually feel sorry for K... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

I actually feel sorry for Kevin on this one LOL!

Kevin's "research" plus 25 cents buys a gum ball.

*It's becoming clear now: Jonah Goldberg is the new Montesquieu. And by Goldbergian logic, exercise of mind and body is fascist, thus un-American, thus Kevin's Research.

Nancy Pelosi(D-DSA) is a ca... (Below threshold)

Nancy Pelosi(D-DSA) is a card-carrying goose-stepping National Socialist who came to Congress from her politically connected family and is now one of the richest women in Congress. How did that happen?

I can't stop laughing. The ... (Below threshold)
Lee Ward:

I can't stop laughing. The Swastika photo is of a protest a week ago!

So Kevin stumbles around the web and because he cant' find evidence he declares Pelosi's claim is bullshit never bothering to just call Pelosi's office and check on the claim.

That's how the right wing blogosphere works.

Next on Wizbang: Kevin Aylward carves a backward P on his cheek...
depp=true

Hey! Of the hundreds of pro... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Hey! Of the hundreds of protests and tens of thousands of protesters, they finally found someone with nazi signs! That proves..uh, somthing. Or it was a Moby.

Don't recall seeing any of ... (Below threshold)
JJ:

Don't recall seeing any of you leftwing nitwits complaining about the thousands of posters comparing Bush with hitler. This one photo, if it's legitimate, has a swastika with the "no" line through it and a ? with Obama's name. It's pretty clear that she's asking where Dear Leader stands.

I sent Pelosi an email toda... (Below threshold)
retired military:

I sent Pelosi an email today that said if Republicans are using Swatiskas it is because we are recyling the ones that the dems have used for the past 8 years and threw out when Obama took office.

SAVE THE PLANET

Bingo.The Tea Pa... (Below threshold)
Bingo. The Tea Parties and Townhall meetings are really getting under their skin. The question is, how do we handle these shenanigans?

With lots of cameras.

Lee Ward, You've bee... (Below threshold)

Lee Ward,
You've been banned.
Maybe you'd like a message from your service
provider.

The obvious oneI h... (Below threshold)
retired military:

The obvious one

I have a sworn deposition to include Video tape of Obama stating that he was born in Kenya

If you dont believe me than just call Obama and ask him.

I mean I have the exact same proof at this point that Pelosi has shown.


Mantis, What is your... (Below threshold)

Mantis,
What is your point? Other than a personal attack on the owner/editor of Wizbang?
If you're not going to add value through
respectful debate, do yourself a favor
and quit reading Wizbang.
It obviously causes you pain.

Hyperbolist,Jef... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Hyperbolist,

Jeff, you used to be a hell of a lot more civil, but since a liberal won the White House you've totally flown off the deep end.

Perhaps. Encountering someone who asserts themselves a "patriotic communist" will have that effect. One who argues to replace our current form of government with communism is by definition a deconstructionist. This is opposite patriotism no matter what word games one plays. Yeah, people like that piss me off. Sue me.

KEVIN ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

KEVIN ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT YOU ARE R-R-R-WRONG

Someone carried a nazi sign onto the stage at an event in Colorado. Also on stage were State Senator Josh Penry, Congressman Mike Coffman, Colorado GOP Chairman Dick Wadhams, State Senator Dave Schultheis, former Congressman Tom Tancredo, and Independence Institute president Jon Caldara, among others. None of whom did anything about it, and in fact one person defended the guy to one of our people saying that the swastika is not a Nazi symbol, but an honored Native American symbol.

The summary above came from http://www.progressnowcolorado.org/page/community/post/michaelditto/CQ9x

Tina, Tina, Tina, nice stra... (Below threshold)
Kevin Author Profile Page:

Tina, Tina, Tina, nice strawman but YOU FAIL.

Was that a health care town hall? No it was not - it happened long before these July/August town hall meeting. Re-read Speaker Pelosi's statement. She was specific about these being folks showing up to the health care meetings members are now having in their districts.

OBVIOUSLY just calling Pelo... (Below threshold)
The Obvious One:

OBVIOUSLY just calling Pelosi's office and asking about her comment would have saved the right wing and this blog a lot of embarrassment.

Wow - just wow. "I didn't find evidence to support Pelosi's claim therefore she's full of bullshit" - stunning piece of journalistic masturbation there....

Nancy drinks too much k... (Below threshold)
Katie:

Nancy drinks too much kool-aid................she's delusional!!!!!

The OBvious oneWhe... (Below threshold)
retired military:

The OBvious one

When a person makes an accusation they should be able to back it up. You know we are in AMerica, where a person is innocent until proven guilty. Except of course when San Fran Nan is speaking and then ah hell no proof is needed. The same way no proof is needed whenever a democrat wants to say something bad about republicans

Besides if republicans are using swatiskas we are just saving the planet. I mean someone has to recylcle all the swatiskas the Dems used for the 8 years Bush was in office.

Want some links to those pictures? I mean it would be more proof than Pelosi has given about anything she has said in the past 10 years.

Other than a personal at... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Other than a personal attack on the owner/editor of Wizbang?

What personal attack? He wrote the post.

Mantis, Is your back... (Below threshold)

Mantis,
Is your back bothering you from moving the
goal posts?
/shiny object

Prediction for new... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:


Prediction for new signs that Grassroots® protesters will be carrying at townhalls and Tea Parties and such:

SPEAKER PELOSI, WE APOLOGIZE

or

PLEASE FORGIVE US SPEAKER PELOSI

or

WE WERE WRONG

or

WE ADMIT IT, YOU WEREN'T LYING


What personal attack? What... (Below threshold)
mantis:

What personal attack? What goalposts?

Nancy been smokin the wacky... (Below threshold)
Crosscut:

Nancy been smokin the wacky tobaky again?

TinaS, are you claiming tha... (Below threshold)
The Big O!:

TinaS, are you claiming that the Colorado event from back in February that you link to was a Health Care Town Halls (which is what Pelosi's claim referred to)?

If not, practice your reading comprehension. If so, you're as reality-challenged as Pelosi is.

(By the way, congratulations to the Democratic brownshirts and their hired union thugs on their first assault! That's sure to be a vote-getter in 2010 and 2012: beat up the "un-American" citizens who oppose your policies.)

"Want some links to thos... (Below threshold)
The Obvious One:

"Want some links to those pictures? I mean it would be more proof than Pelosi has given about anything she has said in the past 10 years."

What does that have to do with the masturbatory adventures of right wing bloggers?

I despite anyone who uses the swastika - left or right.

Defending those who use it -- by claiming it didn't happen - is equally despicable, don't you agree?

Labeling someone as a bullshitter because they complain about those who use swastiskas is pretty disgusting too, don't you agree?

But feel free to change the subject if you wish. Nancy Pelosi was correct, and this blog post author was incorrect - so changing the subject is about all that's left - there's simply no defense for the gross inaccuracy smear tactics employed here.

Communism is a political... (Below threshold)
Speller:

Communism is a political system where property is held in common and the government controls the means of production or use.
47. Posted by Rob

In Communism the government has sole control of the means of:
a) production
b) distribution
c) financing
d) communications
e) transit

Property is not held in common.
Rather, individual citizens have no right to property, but it's use, property, is entirely determined by the government.

It's simple - ask her. J... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

It's simple - ask her. Just pick up the phone and call her office and ask. It'll take 10 mins tops.

But maybe -- just maybe -- she'll give you the source behind the remarks she made, and obviously that frightens you.

Or you can call Santa Claus at the north pole, and ask him if you've been naughty or nice...let's see which person picks up the phone faster.

Actually, BigEd, your qu... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Actually, BigEd, your quote is not entirely accurate. Pelosi stated:

there were people "carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on healthcare."

It's always better to provide the entire quote, so context and accuracythe utter rank bullshit [is] not lost.

Fixt.

None of whom did anythin... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

None of whom did anything about it, and in fact one person defended the guy to one of our people saying that the swastika is not a Nazi symbol, but an honored Native American symbol.

Uh, no it ain't. It comes from India (as in Asian Indians, not American), it's been co-opted by many groups other than the Nazis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

I despite anyone who use... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

I despite anyone who uses the swastika - left or right.

Good, then you will now denounce this, I hope:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qwNGaeCRkvY/SnpmR2aWagI/AAAAAAAABKk/DRIgjuVlmRw/s1600-h/bhjpg.jpg

KEVIN ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

KEVIN ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT YOU ARE R-R-R-WRONG

Hold it there, missy! Did you read the full article?

I thought they closed down the nut factory!By Michael Ditto - Feb 17th, 2009 at 3:59 pm EST

By my watch, the health care townhalls have been happening this summer, not last winter. Is your name Rumpelstilskin?

Are you quick to bring you condemnation to this?:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qwNGaeCRkvY/SnpmR2aWagI/AAAAAAAABKk/DRIgjuVlmRw/s1600-h/bhjpg.jpg


You know, I can search Google and find thousands of "Nazi Bush" photos and rallies, but Pelosi can't provide one CLEAR (not grainy and undecipherable) picture of a "Nazi Obama" sighting at a townhall meeting?

Interesting, innit?

I wouldnt be suprised if pe... (Below threshold)
retired military:

I wouldnt be suprised if people starting bring screwdrivers to take the pins out of doors that are being locked or setting off fire alarms since the dems are claiming "fire code" to get the building emptied out so they can get seats from the union thugs.

Also, Rob - you might want ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Also, Rob - you might want to check out the theory of the tragedy of the commons, and what happened at the Jamestown settlement. Briefly, all land and supplies were held in common, but with little incentive to actually work the land for crops (since all food produced went into a communal pool to be shared out equally) they were at the mercy of the local Indians for a food supply.

And they really screwed that up - getting the Indians VERY ticked off at them. Food shipments from England were few and far between - so in the winter of 1609-1610 they had no food, no way to grow it (seeing as crops require some advance planning) and no way to get it with the local Indians killing off any settler they could catch outside the fort.

4/5ths of the settlers died.

The liberal demacrats could... (Below threshold)
Flu-Bird:

The liberal demacrats could very well be nailing the lid of their own coffins shut it looks like their in desperate times becuase their losing the publics trust

Thanks for playing.... (Below threshold)
Baby with a swastica:

Thanks for playing.

My Chevelle has an SS symbo... (Below threshold)
BluesHarper:

My Chevelle has an SS symbol. OMG!!!

If it's a Chevelle SS: nice... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

If it's a Chevelle SS: nice car!

If you affixed the emblem of the Schutzstaffel to your non-super-sport Chevelle: then I think someone should firebomb your car when you aren't sitting in it.

You do comprehend the difference, don't you?

Another great job Kevin. T... (Below threshold)
epador:

Another great job Kevin. The cockroaches are streaming out of the cracks in the wall where they've been hiding lately.

Too bad they make such a mess when you step on them. I liked the roach motel approach better.

Response to #38 Rob..Thanks... (Below threshold)
Mark:

Response to #38 Rob..Thanks, I am glad to help you here. #1 The Town Hall lynchings as you refer to it as, is what most call holding their elected officials accountable, if the majority of the constituents are NOT HAPPY about something, it is their DUTY, OBLIGATION to tell their representatives. Those reps don't have to listen because WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY, we are a Constitutional Representative Republic. But constituents don't have to vote for him/her in the next election.
#2 US Constitution, Bill of Rights;
Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances".

As long as it is peaceful(totally free from violence) any attempt to stop people from letting their representatives in Congress know how they feel, would be a VIOLATION of the CONSTITUTION of UNITED STATES of AMERICA.
I think that thats all you need to know!

<a href="http://thinkprogre... (Below threshold)

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/07/pelosi-swastikas/

There you go. Four different instances of conservatives showing up to healthcare protests with nazi swastikas.

You said you searched Think Progress?




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