Tax protesters as "The Weathermen." Nice. I recently learned that The Weathermen were also fans of Charles Manson. Ah, the fruits of 60's radicalism. If only Hollywood could get the story straight.

Well, I guess we are all in for it now. MSNBC has an anchor saying socialist is the new N-word. I had heard I was a racist when our fearless leader was running for office because I made the statement "He is a liar and a phony". Looks like my "racist" comments were true, tho.

One thing Congress and the other power houses seem to forget: 2010 is coming.

Yeah, I caught that last night as well. Ground another .05 inches of tooth enamel off when I heard that. D'Onofrio is one mighty fine piece of work. Wonder if an alien came down and stole his skin...

Actually, I watched L&O, and couldn't help but laugh. I don't know the turn around from script to filming to airing, but it seemed to me not like the writers were making a dig at conservatives, but that they attempted to predict how the populace would react and got everything completely and totally ass backwards. Keep in mind, the protests were not shown at town halls, government buildings, or SEIU offices. Instead, the protests were outside BANKS! The L&O writers thought that the US would be awash in left-wing protests, when the exact opposite has come to pass. As a result, I didn't get offended at the episode at all. Instead, it was very odd to watch a Law & Order episode that took place in a completely different time-space continuum.

I saw that too, Lorie, and was getting online to blog about it just now! Glad to see I wasn't the only one who did a double-take. Communist fascist groups associated with the Tea Parties. Good heavens, that is obtuse.

You still watch NBC? Really?

Actually Law & Order CI is on USA Network now. I watch a few shows on NBC, but very few these days. In fact, the one show I was going to name that know I watch on NBC is Medium and now it has moved to CBS. D'Onofrio is a loon, but last night's episode was one with Jeff Goldblum.

I agree with Pelosi. Yelling out lies to drown out debate is un-American. It's something terrorists would do. The Taliban lies all the time. We kill off one of their leaders and they lie and say it didn't happen.

HughS has a post down the page somewhere that blames Pelosi for "ordering up jets". When asked for any link between the measure and Pelosi he couldn't provide one but since Pelosi is a target its easy to just smear her and say it was her. The Taliban lie all the time.

Lots of lies being told about health care. I agree with those who say it's un-American.

Vic

I think people should be allowed to speak. What is significant about Pelosi and Hoyer's "un-America" comment is that they didn't seem to believe it was un-American when liberals were drowning out the speech of people like Ann Coulter and Tom Tancredo on college campuses, or when those on the left were advocating the assassination of Bush and Cheney, etc.

Also significant is that those on the left are the ones always accusing Republicans of calling them un-patriotic and un-American, but it is really those on the left who hurl those accusations much more often.

"Yelling out lies to drown out debate is un-American."

So tell us, Vic, with that mammoth intellect of yours, what do we do when our Representatives LIE directly to our faces? Especially when they tell us that 'health care reform' has nothing to do with government control of health care. And why does the government need my bank account number? This is about health care, isn't it?

We have the power to vote these jokers out.

Victory is Ours,

Yours is the party of lies. You cannot tell the truth about anything. You really should change your name to "Un-winnable War" as the phrase "Victory is Ours" is foreign to you except as it relates to creeping Communism.

Garandfan:

"So tell us, Vic, with that mammoth intellect of yours, what do we do when our Representatives LIE directly to our faces?"

Just remember two rules.

1. Democrats never lie.

2. When in doubt about whether a Democrat has lied, see rule 1.

Vic or VIO, whichever you prefer,

Try not to be so obviously disingenuous, or if you prefer something a little simpler so you don't have to look it up, just plain hypocritical.

What you are saying is it's un-American to lie, if that's really what's happening, about health care reform, but all those years of lying about Bush's policies and republican legislation wasn't?

Really?

Are you off the meds? Maybe you shouldn't fool with that, or if you are not taking meds, stop self medicating with those recreational pharmaceuticals, it really screws up your sense of reality.

Shouting me down doesn't work. Neither does calling me names. Screaming at the top of your lungs in a town hall meeting in order to stop the speakers from giving their talk and letting the public debate is wrong.

Shouting down Ann Coulter isn't right either, but we're talking about an important debate, not some talk show host or columnist on a college campus. We're talking about issues that matter to the American people.

Nobody came up with a good reason for this behavior. Just lots of excuses, no reasons. Democrats do this so we can do that!

That's not a reason to stop health care debate from happening, that's an excuse for bad behavior. It's something you'd expect from a child.

It's childish behavior from people who appear to not want the truth known. This issue will effect the lives of many Americans, but some feel there shouldn't be a debate and discussion, and some are telling lies to distort the facts.

That's un-American.

Jeff Blogworthy - you are correct. The politicians are bold faced liars. Starting with the biggest liar at the top. Next to him, is his bumbling sidekick who needs a gag to keep him from spilling the beans on the lies his boss tells, and then the ever "popular" Nancy Pissoli. The one who can't even see herself flying home commercial, but needs a private jet. (After she pitched a fit about the car makers showing up for a meeting in their private jets.) Not only are these people liars, they are hypocrites and losers. Did you notice that the POTUS was telling so many lies his telepromter up and died? It was so loaded down with lies it fell over and died from exhaustion.

Yelling out lies to drown out debate is un-American.

Debate? What debate? There is no debate. The Democrats have no interest in listening to dissent. Obama said so--he said he doesn't want Americans who disagree with him to talk at all. That's why Pelosi called the dissenters Nazis and Kathleen Sebelius is encouraging the SEIU to beat on Americans who disagree with Obama. That's why the Congress tried to ram this pile of shit through in six weeks.

By the way, chants of "Read the Bill" and "You Work for Us" don't qualify as "lies." Don't type words if you don't know what they mean.

One other thing I wanted to say but forgot - sorry.

Using a patriotic name to describe an act does not make the act patriotic. There's nothing patriotic about waving signs with swastikas and hanging our president effigy, and calling those kinds of demonstrations "tea parties" doesn't make them right.

If AQ called the bombing of the WTC a "Tea Party" it doesn't change the wrongness of what they did by one bit.

The same applies to the un-American activities done by conservatives ever since President Obama was elected. Calling them "tea parties" doesn't make it ok. Shouting down people in town hall meetings is wrong.

But Vic, the Democrats don't want a debate or any questions being asked at the townhall meetings, those tough questions they should have to answer.

If the Democrats really wanted debate and to answer the questions being asked, they wouldn't be stuffing these meetings with SEIU union people to shout down those asking the questions or keeping people out who want to ask the questions, you know, that whole debate thing.

But let's not answer that one either Vic, let's just call those asking the questions un-American, because they don't agree with the hook, line and stinker being fed to them.

Isn't that special? When tea party protesters rally against bailouts and the shamulus plan that is not important stuff. When Ann Coulter or Tom Tancredo (a former congressman) want to speak publicly about immigration and other issues, it is not important. But when politicians want to lie to their constituents about Obama's health care plan that is really important stuff and no dissent is allowed. GEEZ. Did you really mean to say that, because that is what it sounded like? Who is the one that gets to decide what is and is not important speech and who is and is not allowed to be heard?

Childish is what we have seen from liberals for the past eight years. And you want to talk about lies? Blood for oil! Bush lied about WMD, although all the Dems who said the same thing about it didn't. Assassinate Bush/Cheney. Bush is Hitler. Republicans want to starve old people. And children. And poison the water. And the air. Are liberals really so clueless that they don't know what has gone on for the past decade? Or are they so deceitful that they want to try to convince us that it didn't happen? The American people are not that stupid.

Was it okay to hang Bush/Cheney and our troops in effigy for seven plus years? If not, then why did so many on the left do it? And why did so many on the left who did not personally do it, not denounce it? And why did those on the left regularly celebrate the patriotism of those liberal protesters who engaged in such disgusting behavior? Could someone answer me that?

If you stood by for eight years and let all that activity go on without commenting on it, don't be surprised when I don't think your self righteous complaints about un-American activities are exactly credible.

Saw this in a comment on another site:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs&feature=related

Ronald knew how to say it.

"when liberals were drowning out the speech of people like Ann Coulter and Tom Tancredo on college campuses, or when those on the left were advocating the assassination of Bush and Cheney, etc."

When hate monger Coulter spews her bile in a public forum where all are welcome and I'm thinking that everyone, including the protesters, paid to get in, she needs to be a big girl and reap what she sows. Tancredo is a jingoistic xenophobe, a lightning rod for criticism. My heart bleeds.

I agree with you Lorie, people should be allowed to speak. Always. The issue is that the gut level concerns that this level of societal change has created needs thoughtful, informed discussion. Emphasis on "informed". This is not happening and that is the crux of the opposition to the disruptive town hall tactics encouraged by the insurance company organizers.

News flash to all protesters: there are no plans for death panels, you can keep your insurance if you want to and this administration is way less interested in collecting your personal info than the last one was.

Shouting down people in town hall meetings is wrong.

Beating down people in town hall meetings at the behest of a cabinet member is even worse.

"News flash to all protesters: there are no plans for death panels, you can keep your insurance if you want to and this administration is way less interested in collecting your personal info than the last one was."

Keep drinking the kool aid Groucho. You might at least get off your dead damned as and read HR3200. Hell, it's ONLY 1000 pages long. Set the example for your Democratic representatives.

"Are liberals really so clueless that they don't know what has gone on for the past decade? Or are they so deceitful that they want to try to convince us that it didn't happen? The American people are not that stupid."

They're patient, Lorie - and willing to both trust and give the benefit of the doubt to a point. But that point's been long passed, with so-called 'emergency' after 'emergency', and mountainous piles of debt being taken on... to the point where even the average joe becomes aware that something just isn't right inside the Beltway.

And I think this Health Care scam was the tipping point. Obama pushed too hard, too fast, tried to make it too secret, and Specter's admission that HE wasn't going to read it before signing wasn't taken well. If we can't trust our representatives to actually read what's put into law - why put any trust in them at all?

I agree w 25.

Uh, Vic? There was NO debate, Obama and Company were set to pass the "Health Care Reform Act" last month. Remember? No "debate". Just pass it! EMERGENCY!!! Remember?

The only reason a 'debate' is going on now is because the Blue Dogs didn't roll over for Madame Pelosi. Self-preservation is a remarkable thing.

As for the yelling and screaming. That will stop when the Dimocrat Representatives stop lying about the bill currently before the House. The 1000 page bill you and Groucho don't have the time to read. But then why should you, your Rep's sure as hell weren't prepared to read it before they voted on it.

Victory is ours - You need to get a grip. There were no swastikas until one was photoshopped into the picture. Why are you defending a racist who wants nothing more than to turn our great country into a Nazi nation. You literally scare me. I do hope you are supposed to be on meds and forgot to take them. I would forgive you for that. But, to deliberately thumb your nose at patriots is disgusting to say the least. By the way, are you related to Rob?

"Specter's admission that HE wasn't going to read it before signing wasn't taken well."

JL, granted Specter's an idiot, but IIRC, it was Charlie Rangel who made the comment about not reading the bill. Said it was too long and too complicated.

Guess it never occurred to him, being a Congressman, to MAKE IT SHORTER AND WRITTEN IN COMMON ENGLISH.

I guess I'm just confused, but Vic is here, and so is Groucho so maybe they can sort it all out for me.

It wasn't but about a month ago and one of our liberal friends here was just bubbling over on how the Dems now had a 60 vote Senate. Nancy Pelosi had the votes in the House for ObamaCare and the Repubs were powerless to do anything about anything. Cap and Trade - done deal. ObamaCare -done deal.

So what's changed? You still have the 60 votes in the Senate. Ol' Nan has already said she has the votes in the House. Why are you guys even bothering to talk to us any more? We shouldn't even be an after thought for you. August is just a month, you have all the votes you need. You need absolutely zero help from the Republicans help to pass any bill you want.

And yet, you're carrying on like someone stole the sand out of your sand box. Just why is that?

Back to the subject of Law and Order - I stopped watching it long ago and also stopped Boston Legal years ago (don't even know if it is still on) for exactly those kinds of snide comments which don't have a thing to do with the story, but only serve to make the Hollywood liberals feel good about how "clever" they are.
I find there are enough other entertaining television programs that don't broadside me with digs that make me cringe every week.

That's right, it was Specter who was saying things had to be done so fast that there wasn't time for him to read them... while Rangel just laughed at the idea.

The most common pre-Congress occupation was "Lawyer" - it's no wonder that the bills need interpreters any more.

When hatemonger Coulter spews her bile in a public forum where all are welcome and I'm thinking that everyone, including the protesters, paid to get in, she needs to be a big girl and reap what she sows. Tancredo is a jingoistic xenophobe, a lightning rod for criticism. My heart bleeds.

I never thought anyone would come out and admit what so many on the left really believe -- that free speech is only meant for some Americans, not those considered "hatemongers" or "jingoistic xenophobes."

So, who decides who the hatemongers are? I would say those who blogged that Bush was Hitler or that Bush and Cheney should be shot or those carrying signs showing a decapitated Bush are hatemongers. Does that mean they should not be allowed to blog? Or to march? Can't you see the problem here? It is not rocket science. Come on Groucho. Tell us who you think is qualified to decide who is worthy of free speech, and who is qualified to determine just what informed debate is.

I am not for shouting down and shutting off debate, but that is not what the majority of protesters are doing. Hundreds of thousands. Hundreds. Of. Thousands. Easily over a million total if you combine the various tea parties held on tax day and the 4th, etc. That is how many have shown up and protested peacefully across this country this year alone. I know that is scary as hell for liberals to consider, but them's the facts.

Thankfully, I missed that Law and Order, but I am glad you mentioned it. I will be on the lookout for it now, with disdain and disgust, and even though I have loved L&O for many years, I WILL NOT watch it again, ever.

As a child, I was a witness (5 blocks away, up the hill, with a perfect view from my bedroom window in the late afternoon) to the Baader-Meinhof attacks on Campbell Barracks in Heidelberg, GER. Two men my father worked with were killed by their car bombs. I terrifyingly felt the explosions to my core and saw the bodies and debris fly in the air with the mushrooms from the bombs . It has left a lifelong impression on this 50 year old girl... one that made me realize from a very young age what fighting for freedom from tyranny was about. I was a naive 12 year old until that day, and my innocent life changed forever. I suffered nightmares for years after that (that Nazis or some nefarious terrorists were coming to our houses to take us away and kill us), even after we moved back to the United States. For the writers of L&O to make some loose assertion that tea party protestors (myself being one) are like-minded to the evil of Baader and Meinhof and their followers makes me furious.

IMO, the "Townhalls" weren't intended for debate. I base this statement in part off of Obama's insistence that the bill be passed before the August recess. If there was the desire for debate, why insist that it happen before Congress went back to their constituents ?

The "Townhalls" were intended to help shore up faltering public support for this unpopular legislation... a PR campaign. I imagine the plan was to have a few "Townhalls" and come back.. announce that the people had been heard and push the bill through. However, what the people have been saying (rather vocally) is that they do NOT want this. And that's upset the whole apple cart....

_Mike_ is exactly right.
The townhalls were not for debate, they were pre-packaged sales presentations.

As for Vic, who somehow was able to write:
"Yelling out lies to drown out debate is un-American. It's something terrorists would do."

Get a grip! Protesters referred to as Nazi's, called un-american, and now compared to terrorists???

I don't recall any president in modern times who has done so much to purposely split the country. What's even worse is that his followers are so eager to follow his lead.

What Victim Is OUrs has to come to grips with is that most senior citizens, independents and conservatives are totally against this plan.
Then the democratic leaders call them vile names. What I suggest is the left continue to call those of us opposed to this plan vile names. So far: Racist, unamerican, thugs, mob mentality, intimidators, nazi's, and now terrorists. Please, keep it going. It will make a fine 30 second political ad against the dems. ww

Hollywood is as much the problem as the lamestream media - prime examples - the Communist News Network (CNN) and National Brainwashing Center (NBC). The Law & Order Program is just one example of what has been subtly going on for quite some time.

Through television and films, liberal Hollywood is helping to indoctrinate Americans into their lefty views.

The brainwashing is only truly effective when there is no fight against it. Thus, the effort to undermine citizens who are against the health care plan.

Our fighting against this Socialist program is working, because the lefties are becoming more openly hostile, even to the point of getting their Hollywood friends to more overtly put nasty comments in a tv show.

True to form, the liberals are calling us names but not addressing the facts.

I don't care what they call me. I am a American. I love this country. And I'm going to fight against this march to Socialism!!!

Shouting down people in town hall meetings is wrong.

Yelling out lies to drown out debate is un-American.

VIO, by your definition was Congressman David Scott un-American when he shouted down one of his constituents who was very politely asking a question about healthcare?

Was Congressman Scott lying when he said he wasn't voting on a health care bill?

Was Congressman Scott lying when he said that none of the people asking questions ever called his office to ask for a meeting?

VIO, If you read this please answer those questions.

At the town hall meetings, the reason the attendees are being "disruptive" is because they are tired of asking a legitimate question and getting the standard stamped answer. We have heard their standard stamped answers time and again and want one that makes sense both financially and logically. We are not being disruptive - we just want them to know we are tired of the same old same old. We ask questions to find out what is going on and what they are going to do. We are not asking to fill up time. We have a right to know and they refuse to answer our questions. They treat us like we have no mind of our own and are of little consequence. They seem to forget that they are supposed to be working for us. Right now I am watching FNC and Arlen Spector is holding a meeting. I heard him say he will NOT support a bill that gives illegal immigrants free health insurance. Of course not. They will charge them a token $1.00 a month while we pay hundreds a month so that it is not "free" to them. I can see it coming. And then the politicians can't understand why we are upset.

Lorie, as much as I love TV, it often slips in some pretty sad stereotypes. Over the weekend, an old episode of MONK from five years ago featured two labor union heads who were nothing but gangster characters complete with gold chains with their suits, even though no figures exist like this in unions. And LAW & ORDER:SVU has sometimes featured adult entertainment personalities such as strip bar owners as racketeer types, even though most bars are closely regulated by state liquor control commissions and background checks, preventing most bad types from even owning such bars.

Further LAW & ORDER:SVU added that one goofy young character who made a near comedy out of the show until he went crazy in a season closing episode, and even insulted the Native American community by adding an actor who seemed sort of dense, when far better Native American actors certainly exist.

As much as I love TV, it certainly seems to aggravate me sometimes. And as much as I love LAW & ORDER:CRIMINAL INTENT, I have yet to view a single episode in which the plot isn't entirely convoluted. You know the last few minutes of the show, Goran attempts to explain how the accused committed the crime as that dramatic music rises up. Yet even the explanation often still leaves me with a big question mark.

Well, such is TV, I guess. I guess I'm glad I'm now working 12 hours a day seven days a week and watching far less of it recently. TV is often a theatre of the absurd it seems.

LAW AND ORDER just more of the usial left-wing liberal propeganda time to simpley quit watching the program and send it into cancilation and let the NBC network know your fed up with their left-wing propeganda

Haven't watched L&O in years.

It was effortless. Not a hardship at all.

"I agree with you Lorie, people should be allowed to speak. Always. The issue is that the gut level concerns that this level of societal change has created needs thoughtful, informed discussion. Emphasis on "informed". This is not happening and that is the crux of the opposition to the disruptive town hall tactics encouraged by the insurance company organizers."

Groucho... we agree. Absolutely.

Now tell us how to get people to have a thoughtful, informed discussion when they refuse to talk to anyone and did their level best to pass this without talking to anyone at all?

Or was your emphasis on "informed" a code word for "let our betters decide and then accept the wisdom of their plan for our lives?"

Over the weekend, an old episode of MONK from five years ago featured two labor union heads who were nothing but gangster characters complete with gold chains with their suits, even though no figures exist like this in unions.

That's right Paul Organized Crime has never been connected what so ever with Organized Labor.

How about the following from the FBI website:

Labor unions provide a rich source for organized criminal groups to exploit: their pension, welfare, and health funds. There are approximately 75,000 union locals in the U.S., and many of them maintain their own benefit funds. In the mid-1980s, the Teamsters controlled more than 1,000 funds with total assets of more than $9 billion.

Labor racketeers attempt to control health, welfare, and pension plans by offering "sweetheart" contracts, peaceful labor relations, and relaxed work rules to companies, or by rigging union elections.

The Teamsters are the best example of how efficiently the civil RICO process can be used. For decades, the Teamsters has been substantially controlled by La Cosa Nostra. In recent years, four of eight Teamster presidents were indicted, yet the union continued to be controlled by organized crime elements. The government has been fairly successful at removing the extensive criminal influence from this 1.4 million-member union by using the civil process.

Try reading this and go to page 21.

gangster characters complete with gold chains with their suits, even though no figures exist like this in unions

Really Paul? Last I checked you've never belonged to any union in your life.
You clearly have little experience with the Teamsters. Do the names Dave Beck, Jimmy Hoffa, Corn Shea, Roger Toughy (Chicago, the mafia and the Teamsters... TRIFECTA).
How about the McClellan committee? C'mon, it had both Bobby and John Kennedy!

I noticed it while watching it and not only is it ridiculous, but it is insulting to anyone with any intelligence. Communists and Tea Partys are opposite ends of the spectrum.