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The President Officially Throws The Remaining 95% Of Tax Payers Under The Bus

President Obama acknowledged in his Montana appearance today that a tax increase would be necessary to fund ObamaCare.

One (question) came from a man who called himself "a proud NRA member," referring to the National Rifle Association, and said he got most of his news from cable TV.

"You can't tell us how you're going to pay for this," the man said. "The only way you're going to get that money is raise our taxes."

"You are absolutely right. I can't cover another 47 million people for free. I can't do that. We're going to have to find money from somewhere," Obama said.

For the ninety five percenters out there still clinging to Candidate Obama's promise of a tax cut this should be the point of departure in their dalliance with Hope and Change. If not persuaded by their own lying eyes, these ninety five percenters should consider that this promise of a tax increase comes with news today that fully one third of all mortgage loans in the U S are under water.

More than 15.2 million U.S. mortgages, or 32.2% of all mortgaged properties, were in a negative-equity position on June 30, edging down from 32.5% at the end of March, according to the real-estate information company, which tracks data on about 90% of mortgage loans nationwide.

The largest bank failure of the year was announced today and there are more to come as the unwind in commercial real estate sector and collapsing consumer confidence take a devastating toll on the consumer consumption which represents 70% of U S GDP.

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The U.S. consumer sentiment index unexpectedly declined in early August to 63.2 from 66.0 in July, according to media reports on Friday of the Reuters/University of Michigan index.

It's the lowest reading since March, and is significantly worse than the 69.0 that was expected by economists surveyed by MarketWatch. Sentiment has fallen two months in a row.

Consumers are still facing several challenges, including large job losses, weak income growth, falling house prices, rising energy prices, and too much debt.

Only a fully self absorbed politician like Barack Obama could pitch a tax increase in such an economic climate. And only a politician like Barrack Obama would tell a taxpayer that "we're going to have to find the money from somewhere", knowing full well that the "somewhere" is that same taxpayer's pocket.


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Comments (74)

Hugh,I'm sure the usual det... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Hugh,I'm sure the usual detractors will weigh in and say you're over-reacting. Obamanomics will find the money "somewhere". Only problem is that all the suggestions so far have been rejected. There's still the teaser "those earning over $250K". What they refuse to acknowledge is that all the states with budget problems also want to tap into the "250K" market. There was one estimate where "millionaires' in some states (like New York) would be looking at a tax burden of 57% when Federal, State and Local Taxes were factored in. Just how much blood can you siphon off before the donor dies? Health care costs are going to continue to rise - thanks to the baby boomers. Yet Barry is going 'to cut costs', 'increase efficiency' and 'cover more people' while 'saving money'. I guess anything is possible under Obamanomics. It's worked wonders "Stimulating" our economy so far. Let's face it, Barry ain't got a clue in that socialist mind of his. "Tax the rich" only works to the point when they're not "rich" anymore. I'd like to paraphrase an old observation: "First they came for the millionaires, but I wasn't a millionaire; then they came for the $250K crowd, but I wasn't one of them; then they came for the $60K wage earner....and there was NO ONE THERE TO DEFEND ME." So if you don't think Barry will raise your taxes, I'd like to sell you some prime 'oceanfront property in Las Vegas'. Trust me.

"You are absolutely right. ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"You are absolutely right. I can't cover another 47 million people for free. I can't do that. We're going to have to find money from somewhere," Obama said.

It's not over reacting when Obama agrees like this.

I find it interesting that he immediately jumps to taxation and never thinks that perhaps the way is to have a strong economy with lower tax rates generate more tax revenue.

Nah.. Better to control people and keep them in poverty than to let them be prosperous and maybe even get the things they want and need.

"Just how much blood can yo... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"Just how much blood can you siphon off before the donor dies?"

People will pass out at high frequencies if you take more than 15% of their blood volume. Much over 20% and it becomes pretty universal. At 57% you start running into problems with anoxia and organs shutting down due to lack of flow. Even without the blood cells you still need the volume.

Sorry. Blood is my business.

"I find it interesting that... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"I find it interesting that he immediately jumps to taxation...."

Of course he does, that's all that's in the socialist playbook. That and the concept that "government creates jobs".

So Barry, how many people have you gotten off the unemployment line with that fantastic "Stimulus Bill"? I'm still waiting for that JOLT to the economy. Ooops! Forgot. Joey said last week that "Well, we really didn't mean JOLT as in "JOLT". After all, words have meaning.

Well, it ain't like we didn... (Below threshold)
Plumpplumber(balding):

Well, it ain't like we didn't know that was coming....I wonder why he admitted that? 95% hosed, morelike. Didn't seem possible that he would fess up like that. Ya know, I can hear the underground economy beckoning.....What? Didn't you know that the French and Italians are serious tax "artistes"? That's the nasty little secret....cash under the table, barter, etc. So, I wonder how it felt to feel the truth go past those lyin' lips? Did he feel a little faint? I wonder what possessed him? And will he keep on admitting it, or was that a one time shot?

Do you think Obama's panace... (Below threshold)
Matt:

Do you think Obama's panacea of preventive care will provide KY and condoms for us taxpayers as they get ready to bend us over again?

Talk about bad prison movies...

"And will he keep on admitt... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"And will he keep on admitting it, or was that a one time shot?"

Obviously the Teleprompter was off at the time. Otherwise the response would have been 20 minutes long....and answered nothing.

Just another nail in the Ob... (Below threshold)
Michael:

Just another nail in the Obamacare coffin.

There is something wrong wi... (Below threshold)
kathie:

There is something wrong with what Obama intends to do. I don't get it. Obama says that Medicare and Medicaid don't pay health care bills, private insurance pays 130% to make up for the other two. So why wouldn't Obama want tons of privately insured people to help pay for the expanding uninsured and underinsured?

Today he talked about giving more help to people on Medicaid, using Medicare savings to do it, plus not allowing "giving" to be a tax deduction at the same rate.

Suppose he is misrepresenting what his real intentions are. Suppose he really only wants to expand Medicaid to cover the working poor to say 400% of poverty, disguised as reforming Health Care for all. If it is true, his words make alot more sense, and still very expensive.

It would also fit with his other programs of putting a ton of money into underachieving schools, and the stimulus of which 2/3's is going to the poor or lower middle class. And the jobs part of the stimulus is going to many poor areas as well.

I may be way off base, but things just don't jive.

Want to see your Congressma... (Below threshold)
Doug D:

Want to see your Congressman Squirm - even if you oppose healthcare - make your congressman go on record that he doesn't believe what he says:

Please make the following request of your congressman:

I am hoping you will lend your support to several statements the president has made about healthcare reform by committing to us right now that you will vote against any health related bill that does not include the
following wording:

1. "There is nothing in this bill that will prevent Americans from keeping their current doctors and current health care plans at any time. If any other wording in this bill is found to conflict with this commitment than
any and all rules, regulations, and stipulations set forth in this bill automatically expire 30 days after said finding. The federal government may only set a minimum on health insurance requirements. Neither the federal government nor the state governments may prohibit or tax health insurance that provides coverage above the minimum requirements. An enrollment period will be held at least once a year during which all covered Americans will be allowed to switch between the government run and privately plans. "

2. If at any time the General Budget Office determines this bill is not deficit neutral over a rolling three year period then all rules, regulations, and stipulations set forth in this bill automatically expire 30 days after said finding.

3. No monies for funding this bill shall be obtained by raising taxes on families with a taxable icome less than $250,000.

I am also hoping you will support the democratic statements that the government run option will not be unfairly subsidized by requiring the following language:

4. If at anytime the public health insurance option is subsidized either in the form of taxes, surplus equipment, loans, or any other form then the language in this bill providing for a public option will automatically expire. If this clause is overturned by the courts then this entire bill and all rules, regulations, and stipulations based on it will automatically expire 30 days after the courts decision.

This proposed wording basically puts on paper the statements being made by those already in favor of the healthcare bill.

Item 1 is based on President Obamas remarks on Health Care at N.H. Town Hall Meeting on Aug. 11, 2009 shown at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/11/AR2009081102461.html

"Now, let me just start by setting the record straight on a few things I've been hearing out here about reform. Under the reform we're proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. You will not be waiting in any lines. This is not about putting the government in charge of your health insurance.

I don't believe anyone should be in charge of your health- insurance decisions but you and your doctor."

Item 2 is based on Obama In Raleigh: 'I Won't Sign A Health Bill Unless It Is Deficit Neutral' as shown on http://raleigh.mync.com/site/raleigh/news/story/39103/presideAnt-talks-health-care-in-the-triangle/

Item 3 Is based on Obama campaign pledge as shown at http://www.youtube.com/v/UJVMWjTQh_Y

Item 4 is based on ????? as shown on FOX the week of Aug 7-14, 2009.
(Please change this entry if you know who the democratic congressman was)

Back to that 47 million num... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Back to that 47 million number of "uninsured".

Barry's "Health Care Reform" has morphed into "Health Care Insurance Reform". So insurance has to be MANDATORY? Why? There are young people who'd rather spend their money on something else. Isn't that their choice? There are others moving from one job (insurance company) to another (insurance company). Using the governments own (and unverified) number. There are 12 million ILLEGAL's in this country. When did "health care" become a "right" for them? No one refuses them emergency care at hospitals (FREE of charge). But when did we become responsible to provide them with health care? Barry too fucking lazy to bill Mexico? What is the REAL NUMBER of uninsured in this country because they are TOO POOR to provide for their own health insurance? I've been to POOR countries. I've seen POOR people. I've also seen the data on who is considered POOR in the US. The POOR own cars, air conditioners, television sets, cell phones, have on-line internet service, get subsidized housing, get food stamps, the list goes on. Just who are the people who honestly cannot afford coverage? NOT BY CHOICE ('cause I just gotta get that new HD wide-screen TV) but by circumstance? I'll wager the total number isn't anywhere near freakin' 47 million.

What an idiot..He is finish... (Below threshold)
914_62:

What an idiot..He is finished.

Don't count the weasel fini... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Don't count the weasel finished until he's vacated the White House. He can do one hell of a lot of damage just by issuing Executive Orders.

Sorry but since none of the... (Below threshold)
JustRuss:

Sorry but since none of the usual suspects are responding to this article.

TROLL TROLL TROLL... Overreacting and obfuscating...TROLL TROLL TROLL ...bunch of Right Wing Whacko Teabaggers... TROLL TROLL TROLL What President has kept all his promises?


Okay I think that covers it. I like the rules for congressmen mentioned above. If everything the Dem's said about these bill's was true and easily verifiable then alot more of us "teabaggers" might get on board. The problem is they lie and contradict themselves on a daily basis. The wording should be iron clad and not open to interpretation at all.

But...but...all he promised... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

But...but...all he promised is that the bill will be "deficit neutral"! Rob the rich and you offset the deficit. The Rich is hereafter defined as anybody making more than $25,000 a year. The "$250,000" that all of the naysayers are carping about is just another internet rumor created by Rush Limbaugh.

Obama addressed this question in his latest Obama Worship Services. "Let me make this clear. It was simply a decimal place error. Nothing to worry about. The deficit will be controlled as I promised."

C'mon America. Let's get be... (Below threshold)
Trajan:

C'mon America. Let's get behind our President
and send him all the money we can. Let's
check our car seats and sofas and participate
in his noble cause....our piggy banks..our
pockets. We can change our wills to make
him a beneficiary! Anything to keep this
grand experiment moving inexorably forward.
Anything.
Wasn't he great today in Montana?

In Montana, President Obama... (Below threshold)
Bob:

In Montana, President Obama said that savings from his health care program would come from getting rid of the inefficiencies of the health insurance companies. Right. We'll trade the inefficiencies of the free market for the efficiencies of government. Good luck with that, Mr. President.

I am not counting one bit o... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

I am not counting one bit on the defeat of Obama's healthcare initiative. The imperious ones are going to try and ram it through over the clear objections of the people just as they did all the government bailouts.

Did you hear what the slimeball Bill Clinton said? Paraphrasing - "When this passes you will thank us later." We are too stupid to know what is good for us. We must intensify the pressure even more.

Kathie - "Obama says that M... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

Kathie - "Obama says that Medicare and Medicaid don't pay health care bills, private insurance pays 130% to make up for the other two. So why wouldn't Obama want tons of privately insured people to help pay for the expanding uninsured and underinsured?"

My guess, because it's not about health care or insurance reform. I do believe their switching to the term "insurance reform" got us closer to the actual goal however. Social Security receipts soon will not cover disbursements. Medicare has the same problem, only it happens a lot sooner. There is no "trust fund" or "lock box", both programs have been pay as you go since their inception.

So, the Feds need money. Lots of money. And they need it real soon if they are going to be able to continue to spend money on all the things they want to spend money on.

If they could only get their hands on those 401Ks and IRAs, like they were talking about doing earlier this year, they'd get lots of money. Well, were is all that money going now?

Look at what this Administration did once they got their hands on GM, Chrysler, and the investment banks. Assets went where the Administration wanted them to go. Does anyone doubt they would do whatever they pleased if they got their hands on the insurance companies. And their plan for a"robust public option" would damage those insurance companies in a major way. Too big to fail, we bail them out and the Administration gets to have their way with them as well.

Do I know this to be true? No! But it fits the facts of what has happened is now happening a lot better than Barack's story does.

I have no idea how that pos... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

I have no idea how that posted three times. Honest, I hit submit exactly once. Can an admin clean up my mess in aisles 20 & 21 for me, please.

Sorry all.

UOG

What? Did all the trolls s... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

What? Did all the trolls sleep in this morning? Or are they perusing moveon.org for some copy/paste items?

Of course the middle class will see more tax increases. Where the hell did anyone think the money was going to come from? It's a hell of a lot easier for them to just increase taxes than to reform the waste and fraud in already standing programs. And yes, I say "more tax increases" because cap and trade itself is simply an indirect increase.

Hugh you are being disho... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Hugh you are being dishonest, shame on you. Obama specifically stated he would not raise taxes on those making less than $250K. Yet your heading "The President Officially Throws The Remaining 95% Of Tax Payers Under The Bus" gives the impression otherwise. Shame on you.

Tina S is so right! If the... (Below threshold)

Tina S is so right! If the Chosen One said it, it must be so. As for where the money's gonna come from...printing presses...DUH! Where did you think the money in your wallet came from (if you have any left)?? As long as we have ink, paper and printing presses we'll always have all the money we need!!

I'd explain more "stuff"...but I gotta go feed my unicorn. Cheers!

"Obama specifically stated ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Obama specifically stated he would not raise taxes on those making less than $250K."

Kathy, Obama promised a lot of things .... and has welshed on so many now, I've lost count.
HINT: When push comes to shove, Barry will do whatever is convenient at the moment. When you don't have any ethics, it's easy to do.

" ... a man who called hims... (Below threshold)

" ... a man who called himself a proud NRA member ... "

Caused the other three Montanans in the venue who were even the tiniest bit representative of the state's greater population to roar their approval.

That is, in a state with just about America's highest per-capita NRA membership, only four among the other thousand rent-a-mob morons gathered at the end of that day's Obambi Gang Multi-Million Dollar movin'-on-up big jet airplane ride were not yeller-bussed in from inner-city Baltimore and/or Chicago.

Bah! Humbug!

Brian Richard Allen
Lost Angels - Califobambicated 90028
And the far Abroad

TinaS -"Obama s... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

TinaS -

"Obama specifically stated he would not raise taxes on those making less than $250K."

News flash, Tina - HE LIES! He ALREADY HAS! You've seen taxes go up since he got into office, right? Taxes on tobacco, taxes on alcohol? Which groups smoke most? Drink most?

And he's rolling back that little 'pledge' - because he KNOWS he can't finance health 'care' without it!

He will tell you anything he has to so you, you ignorant and gullible little twit, will vote his AWESOME ass into office! Once he's in - he doesn't have to answer to you any more! He's FAR above your paltry concerns, and can do what he damn well feels like!

JLawson...if I'm not mistak... (Below threshold)

JLawson...if I'm not mistaken (and I guess I could be) I kinda thought TinaS was kidding.

I sure hope so, 'cause otherwise my unicorn is gonna turn out to not be real either! *sigh*

Here Tina, read this.... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Here Tina, read this.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/08/024276.php

Does the word "weasel" come to mind? How about "Reichminister of Dis-information". Beginning to get the picture as to why PEOPLE ARE PISSED OFF?

Tina, Tina......you know ho... (Below threshold)
Plumpplumber(balding):

Tina, Tina......you know hoe you can tell Odama is lyin'? Watch his lips move. He's a red diaper marxist that doesn't have a known moral code. A amoral marxist opportunist that is counting on useful idiots such as yourself. Yes, I know you just don't get it - that's what he's counting on. He used gullible white liberal female guilt to get elected, and he counts on that same guilt to sell us down the river. Sometimes liars are do smooth tbat they hurt and destroy a lot of gullible people.

So, he admits that he's gonna have to get the money somewheres. I wonder where...... Oops, look in the mirror. Let me break it down for you - Obama has the goal of introducing socialism into this country. The lower classes simply can't compete in an information based society. He knows that, as does any honest observer with any wit. We aren't all born equal, and that's reality. Some folks simply won't work, and no amount of hand wringing will change that. But they vote. And they keep having babies who simply won't ever break free of this circle of poverty. These are the folks who voted for him also, and they clamor for YOUR taxes. Get the picture? He has to lie because he'll be swatted down if he tells the truth. Grow up! Marxists have to lie because the truth ofbehat they do is so evil that good people will fight them to the death to prevent them from taking over. Marxism has directly killed 150-200 million people, if not more.

I expected nothing less fro... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

I expected nothing less from him.

How can you tell when the President is lying?
There are words on the teleprompter in front of him.

c/o Me

Lets be fair and not be lik... (Below threshold)
Dennis D:

Lets be fair and not be like the liberals. Here is the full statement.

"You are absolutely right. I can't cover another 47 million people for free. I can't do that. We're going to have to find money from somewhere," Obama said.

He noted a congressional estimate that legislation being considered in the Senate could cost $800 billion to $900 billion over ten years.

But he said there were ways to find money other than raising taxes, including streamlining the system and eliminating what he said were subsidies to insurance companies.

Other ways. He did not say their will be a tax increase. Of course I think he will anyway.

Barry is being purposely va... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Barry is being purposely vague as to those 'other' sources of income. Every idea floated in Congress has been blocked by one group on another. Barry will fall back on "saving by creating efficiencies and eliminating fraud".

"...eliminating what he said were subsidies to insurance companies." This is bullshit. The gov't is PAYING (subsidizing to use his word) insurance companies for coverage for the elderly on things the gov't doesn't cover. Like vision and dental care. "Medicare Advantage" ring a bell?

Obama"Care" WILL pay for it... (Below threshold)

Obama"Care" WILL pay for itself! There will fewer people getting Social Security, and fewer people getting Medicare...the "savings" are enormous. Of course, to ACHIEVE those "savings" we need to usher everyone over 65 "off-stage".

How do we "usher them off-stage"? Easy. Simply deny them care...or delay it (which for older folks is the same thing!).

If you watched the video of "older folks" from a DEEP BLUE District of Brooklyn getting in the face of their DEMOCRAT Congressman, you know that the "older folks" understand this math VERY well!!

For some reason the "Greatest Generation" isn't ready to be ushered off-stage...and we Baby Boomers aren't either. For some other reason those two demographics also have the highest percentage of gun ownership. Jus' sayin'.

Justrand -In the p... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Justrand -

In the past, TinaS has posted mindlessly in support of Obama. I'm figuring it's the same Tina, and that after dropping off her pre-scripted lines she's off to somewhere else to spread the lurve...


As a side note - it's rather bizzare that no trolls have showed to mindlessly shill for Obama. I don't count TinaS as a troll, more like a troll-ette, or troll-light or mini-troll... She's a lot like Adrian - pop in, shit, then go on to the next thing...

"TinaS -"Obama spe... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"TinaS -

"Obama specifically stated he would not raise taxes on those making less than $250K."
"

Isnt that the same Obama that said no lobbysists in his administration?

Isnt that the same Obama that said bills would be online 5 days before it would get signed?

Isnt that the same Obama that said that healthcae would be debated on Cspan?


Isnt that the same Obama that said he would recognize the Armenian Genocide.

Isnt that the same Obama that promised a $4000 tax credit for college tuition, but backpedaled when he signed a much smaller $2,500 college tax credit into law?

Isnt that the same Obama that called presidential "signing statements" (letters of interpretation and recommendations attached to Congressional legislation) unconstitutional... then attached a signing statement of his own to a $410 billion spending bill?

Isnt that the same Obama that in his first private meeting with Congressional Republicans, instead of "reaching across the aisle" and seeking earnest dialogue, he smugly told them that he should have his way because "I won."?


Isnt that the same Obama that did not criticize Congress for its secrecy and closed-door committee meetings in crafting the stimulus package despite his calls for greater transparency in Washington?

Isnt that the same Obama that wants to save the planet from global warming but cranks the thermostat down in the Oval Office?

More BS. There's nothing 'o... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

More BS. There's nothing 'official' about Hugh's made-up theory.

"But the Democrats lies so we can too!"

Vic

voc - "More BS."</... (Below threshold)
Marc:

voc - "More BS."

Lets all assume vic has posed a question, and the answer is this:

Congressman Bart Stupak, D-MI validates many citizens idea that most of the Democrats put party over country. Stupak told Detroit News columnist Frank Beckmann that protests weren't going to deter him from voting yes on health care. He said, "We're not going to allow a small, vocal minority to dissuade us (from) our goal."

In other words, FOAD he's going through the motions in these townhalls, Nancy Pelosi has his vote regardless of the reality.


There you have it Vic... all the BS your little heart desires.

Hello Vic, where have you b... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

Hello Vic, where have you been?

8/13/09 LA Times headline - Wanted: Obama healthcare reform volunteers willing to be paid $15 an hour

Paid "volunteers. Hired to drum up something that looks like a grass roots interest in health care reform (that's called Astroturf, Vic.)

And you were saying? Or is it time to do another disappearing act, Vic?

Upset Old Guy... not to men... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Upset Old Guy... not to mention ACORN and the SEIU being bussed into a Penn, town hall.

Funny [not really] how that works, a union with much to gain if health care passes and a "organizing" group guilty of all sorts of election shenanigans can be bussed in, but groups opposed to the current health care bills can do it [assuming they have] without being called astrotuffers, racists red necks.

Hi Vic!Hey, check it... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Hi Vic!
Hey, check it out. Your buddies are wondering "Who is Barack Obama". Better take some antacid, they're comparing him to DICK CHENEY!

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/15/facing-health-care-oblivion-the-left-finally-wonders-who-really-is-barack-obama/

Well, speaking as one of th... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Well, speaking as one of the missing "trolls," I have no problem with Hugh's article.

Yes, it conflates saying "We've got to get the money from somewhere" with an imaginary announcement of a tax increase. And, yes, it drags in some doom-and-gloom statistics about mortgages and consumer confidence. (Funny, I thought the Democrats were supposed to be the DefeatistPessimist party.) So, it's kinda dishonest, and nothing but typical Right propaganda.

But I have no problem with it.

What's amusing is reading the comments thread. At least 3 or 4 of you me-tooers are WISHING for a "troll" to argue with. Perhaps if you were arguing facts you'd get your wish. But there's no sense arguing healthcare with people who make specious claims about "Death Panels" and who think a throwaway line about "money from somewhere" means "Your taxes are going up, suckers!"

Let's see...ACORN, union thugs, SEIU, OH NOEZ TEH SOCALIZMS!!!, "broken" promises...pretty much sums it up. All empty red meat buzz words, but, hey, it is what it is. All you got.

The way this is going, the ... (Below threshold)
bill-tb:

The way this is going, the riders left on the bus, when they get off, will step out on the moon.

Everybody knows the Joker lies -- You did see the Batman movies didn't you?

bh - "But there's no se... (Below threshold)
Marc:

bh - "But there's no sense arguing healthcare with people who make specious claims about "Death Panels"

Apparently what was specious were claims they didn't exist, 'cause lets face it, you can't take out what wasn't there. If Grassley's word is worth anything, and that's debatable, the so-called death panels have been dropped from the bill.

P.S. why bother whining about the comment thread and IGNORE the many facts contained in the post?

I bet most of us here can come close to guessing the answer.

re: 3Well, if you... (Below threshold)
epador:

re: 3

Well, if you act slowly enough, and replace each unit of blood with saline or albumin, you can remove about 75% of the red blood without some people noticing. As long as they aren't exercising. I've seen more than a few folks with Hgb of 4 from chronic blood loss that didn't realize they were very anemic. Which is the general tactic of folks that like taxation. They just keep taking a little more from time to time and before you know it taxes/government fees are 75% of your income. Until you try to actually DO something financially with your life, you don't notice!

What "facts" would those be... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

What "facts" would those be, Marc?

If you mean the mortgage and CC statistics, I already said I have no problem with that. If you mean it is a "fact" that "Obama acknowledged he would have to raise taxes to pay for healthcare reform," where is that "fact" proven?

Certainly not in the link Hugh provided.

Care to quote the section of the proposed bill, recently removed so as to deprive wingnuts of a talking point, that would have established the dreaded "Death Panels?" Please, Informed One, let's see the actual language of the bill that would have allowed Obama to murder Aunt Gertie.

BruceIf not from a t... (Below threshold)
HughS:

Bruce
If not from a tax increase where will the money come from?

A tax increase is somewhat quantifiable (although much less so than liberals will admit or understand) whereas deriving the funding from some other source (as yet unstated other than the nebulous "cost savings from BigPharma") is almost entirley speculative.

Show me the funding source.

To all Christians, who did ... (Below threshold)
Dominic Ebacher:

To all Christians, who did Jesus heal?

A man with leprosy(Matthew 8 v 2-3 Mark 1 v 40-42 Luke 5 v 12-13)
An army officer's servant (Matthew 8 v 5-13 Luke 7 v 1-10)
Peter's mother-in-law (Matthew 8 v 14-15 Mark 1 v 30-31 Luke 4 v 38-39).
A paralysed man (Matthew 9 v 2-8 Mark 2 v 1-12 Luke 5 v 18-26)
The woman who touched him (Matthew 9 v 20-22 Mark 5 v 25-34 Luke 8 v 43-48)
Two blind men (Matthew 9 v 27-31)
A man with a withered hand (Matthew 12 v 9-13 Mark 3 v 1-5 Luke 6 v 6-10)
A man born blind (Matthew 20 v 29-34 Mark 10 v 46-52 Luke 18 v 35-43)
A deaf and mute man (Mark 7 v 31-37)
A blind man (Mark 8 v 22-25)
A crippled woman (Luke 13 v 10-17)
A man with dropsy (Luke 14 v 1-4)
Ten lepers (Luke 17 v 11-19)
Malchus (Luke 22 v 50-51; John 18 v 10)
The official's son (John 4 v 46-54)
The paralysed man at the pool (John 5 v 1-9)
A man born blind (John 9)

The rich, the privileged, the homeless, friends, relatives, the disabled, the outcast. Consider whether the "Public Option", whether "Single Payer", whether "Universal" Health Insurance, isn't something more like WWJD than the alternative. You decide.

Dominic Ebacher...okay, I c... (Below threshold)

Dominic Ebacher...okay, I considered it.

Verdict: BULLSHIT!

I am an avid and devout Christian. I also am someone with a BRAIN.

Which means I want people to be healed, but also that I realize that actually HEALING them (unless you are Jesus) requires facilities, personnel and medicine.

So, Dominic Ebacher, unless you're willing to slaughter your unicorn herd and sell their body parts to PAY for your "Single Payer" system, your question has no merit!

And, Dominic Ebacher, you might consider the HUGE imbalance in terms of what CONSERVATIVES give to charity, versus what LIBERALS do. Liberals TALK about helping the underprivileged...and want SOMEONE ELSE to help them. Conservatives actually help them!

btw, Dominic Ebacher, Jesus flogged the money-changers...and I do believe he would flog you too!

All Government funding come... (Below threshold)
914_62:

All Government funding comes from the taxpayers..

Obama lied, healthcare died.

Case closed.

Dominic Ebacher,Fi... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Dominic Ebacher,

First let us dispense with the canard that your socialist health program equates with miraculous healing.

Second, Jesus did not have to steal and extort by force of arms from his countrymen to pronounce said healing. Your version of Jesus is a twisted one indeed.

Third, stop pretending that this is actually about helping the uninsured. If it were, we could leave the system as is save for some minor reforms and insure the needy for billions less.

47. Dominic Ebacher - "Cons... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

47. Dominic Ebacher - "Consider whether the "Public Option", whether "Single Payer", whether "Universal" Health Insurance, isn't something more like WWJD than the alternative."

Hey Dom, do you understanding the meaning of the term non sequitur? Or perhaps, maybe you've at least heard of the term before?

BTW, while trying to be profound and pious you do injustice to the teachings of the Bible. The lesson isn't about healing others. It's about healing yourself so that you can treat all others equally, without prejudice or discrimination. Think about that.

Good one Justrand. I can ha... (Below threshold)
MPR:

Good one Justrand. I can hardly wait for Obamalala, Pelosi and Reid to start quoting scripture as a justification for government take over of health-care. They have tried everything else and they are losing ground on a daily basis. This desperation on the part of Obamalala et al is fun to watch. He is having a real hard time believing that most of the country does not believe him. I don't feel a bit sorry for him.

I know this is totally off-... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

I know this is totally off-topic, but anyone ever notice that the left seems to have shut up about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan now that The One is in office, even though he hasn't really done anything about them?

All of a sudden it's as if they don't exist. Funny that...

James,Their silence ... (Below threshold)
MPR:

James,
Their silence is stunning and glaring.

"Please, Informed One, let'... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Please, Informed One, let's see the actual language of the bill that would have allowed Obama to murder Aunt Gertie."

It's out of the bill for now, so fairly irrelevant, but since you asked Bruce. Let's "connect the dots". Liberals like to "connect the dots".

The 'death panel' isn't spelled out in plain language. It actually started with an interview with Your Master. The question being dealt with was "cost reduction". Your Master responded:

"I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here."

DAVID LEONHARDT: So how do you -- how do we deal with it?

"Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that's part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It's not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that's part of what I suspect you'll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now."

Now you're elderly and need an operation. Do you discuss with your doctor? Not according to Your Savior. You've got your doctor, a 'scientist' and an 'ethicist' - kinda like a "panel". They will make those 'difficult decisions'. They will provide "direction". HUH? IF IT'S MY OPERATION, I'LL MAKE THE DECISION.

So, Bruce, lets play some more "connect the dots". In the House Bill HR3200, there WAS mention of a 'panel' to 'discuss measures' related to reduction of health care costs.

Can you connect the dots?


Well Bruce are You ready to... (Below threshold)
914_62:

Well Bruce are You ready to confront the aspirations of Obamas health care Czars or are You bound and determined to see Auntie Gertrude hauled before an ss death squad?

ENOUGH IS ENOUGHVOTE... (Below threshold)
Kabayo:

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
VOTE LIBERTARIAN!

Everyone is criticizing Ob... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Everyone is criticizing Obama, but WHEN YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE, FOR 8 YEARS, I don't recall any bloggers here, chastizing Bush for the enormous unfunded costs of the Medicare drug benefit government expanded program that Bush and the Republican Congress passed in 2003, or when Cheney echoed Reagan proudly that "deficits don't matter."

Leading conservative economist Bruce Bartlett writes that the Obama-hating town-hall mobs have it wrong--the person they should be angry with left the White House seven months ago,

Bartlett: I could go on to discuss other Bush mistakes that had negative economic consequences, such as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which imposed a massive regulatory burden on corporations without doing anything to prevent corporate misconduct, and starting unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which will burden the economy for decades to come in the form of veterans' benefits.

But there is yet another dimension to Bush's failures--the things he didn't do. In this category I would put a health-care overhaul. Budget experts have known for years that Medicare was on an unsustainable financial path. It is impossible to pay all the benefits that have been promised because spending has been rising faster than GDP.

In 2003, the Bush administration repeatedly lied about the cost of the drug benefit to get it passed,


Everyone is critic... (Below threshold)
The Big O!:
Everyone is criticizing Obama, but WHEN YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE, FOR 8 YEARS, I don't recall any bloggers here, chastizing Bush for the enormous unfunded costs of the Medicare drug benefit government expanded program that Bush and the Republican Congress passed in 2003, or when Cheney echoed Reagan proudly that "deficits don't matter."

Do not blame "everyone" for your own spectacular ignorance and/or bad memory, Steve.

I will bet you $1000 that I can find multiple contemporaneous criticisms of Bush, from sources on the right side of the spectrum, regarding both the Medicare giveaway and budget deficits.

When the shoe was on the o... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

When the shoe was on the other foot, most of the cost criticisms were made by the left, including leading Democrats at that time.

Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) taunted Treasury Secretary John W. Snow about the rhetorical discrepancies.

"If you're looking for a crisis, I would suggest you look at a crisis that was self-made in just last year, because the crisis exists in what's happened to Medicare by weighing it down," Emanuel said. "Those of us who told you it was going to cost twice as much were right."

The portion removed from HR... (Below threshold)

The portion removed from HR3200 didn't bother
the authors because the panels already exist
in HR1

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/death_panel_is_not_in_the_bill.html

Crickmore, Bush is ... (Below threshold)

Crickmore,
Bush is no longer president. Obama is the
current sitting president. And since 2006 the
democrats have had full run of congress.
The republicans got themselves ousted for the
same reasons the democrats are looking the
same future.
As to hating Obama, it's ironic that when a
republican was president all dissent was patriotic, but now that Obama is president
any and all dissent is hateful and unamerican.
I'd call that a twofer for a double standard and blatant hypocrisy.

Hey, I'm just asking for pe... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Hey, I'm just asking for perspective. Most or much of Bush's first year woes, sitting President or not, the unpreparedness in August, 2001, 7 months after taking office, for 9/11, the 2001 recession beginning in March, 2001 were blamed by their supporters, on the previous Clinton administration, while Rush Limbaugh already in August/September 2008 of last year was calling this recession an "Obama recession" four months before he took office... sounds fair.

The whole lot of us have be... (Below threshold)

The whole lot of us have been thrown under the
bus. That's democrats, republicans, and independents...right along with the illegals.
According to the following links we've already
been had.

First HR1:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/death_panel_is_not_in_the_bill.html

And then this:
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/08/irs-new-health-care-enforcer.html

I don't know which is worse.

So... Steve. Ther... (Below threshold)
The Big O!:

So... Steve.

There's a $1000 bet on the table.

Put up or shut up.

Steve:"Hey... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Steve:

"Hey, I'm just asking for perspective."

Screw that. You're saying "You didn't gripe noticeably while Bush was in office, so you shouldn't gripe at all now because Obama's spent a hell of a lot more for a hell of a lot less, and wants to throw away even more."

That fucking garbage barge sailed a long time ago.

Steve,You take you... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Steve,

You take your hypocrisy where you can find it. I do not recall any criticism from the left for belligerent, violent, swastika carrying leftist protesters even though they were ubiquitous. Now you suddenly find an incredible intolerance for "raised voices." Go figure.

#45 Retired Military - How ... (Below threshold)
Madalyn:

#45 Retired Military - How right you are. All those promises, and all broken. promises mean nothing to a liar, schemer, a coward, an unAmerican, and a criminal. He has no principles, no morals, no conscience, and no class. He disses our military and snubs those who oppose him. When he said "I WON" he was disillusional. He didn't win. The office was bought for him by ACORN, SEIU, Code Pink, etc. He couldn't win a fair election if his life depended on it.
I am the proud wife and mother of a husband, son, and daughter who served proudly to protect our country. He served nada. The last 2 Republican presidents we had served our country, the last to Democratic presidents didn't serve a day between them.
Just my opinion
Madalyn

In every campaign speech pr... (Below threshold)
Madalyn:

In every campaign speech promises are made. Usually, when the candidate wins, some promises are kept and some are broken. I can't think of a single one Obama made that he's kept, except he did say under his breath "I'll out tax, out lie, out deceive any past president, I swear to God." He did keep that promise.
Just my opinion
Madalyn

#41 - If there was never a ... (Below threshold)
Madalyn:

#41 - If there was never a mention of a death panel to begin with which the Dems claimed there was not, how come after all the uproar, they now say they took it out. How can you take something out if it was never there? HUH? HUH?
Just asking
Madalyn

All Obama promises come wit... (Below threshold)

All Obama promises come with an expiration date.

Now the Administration is s... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

Now the Administration is signaling willingness to drop the "public option" from ObamaCare.

No one forget, incramentalism is everything to the Dems. As long as they get to stand up the Christmas tree, they can always hang the ornaments on it another time.

UOG

" So... Steve.Ther... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

" So... Steve.

There's a $1000 bet on the table.

Put up or shut up.

65. Posted by The Big O! | August 16, 2009 3:22 AM "


Well, he is awful quiet now.

He must know he's been pwned.

Obamas the only one left on... (Below threshold)
914_62:

Obamas the only one left on His magic bus.




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