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Andrew Breitbart As The New Don Hewitt

Andrew Breitbart's BigGovernment.com is running circles around traditional media outlets. As Lori notes below, Charlie Gibson may feign an unawareness of the ACORN videos but no one is buying it. Why? Because an exposé like this is the very stuff Don Hewitt used to make 60 Minutes into one of the biggest news shows in history. After just a few seasons Hewitt's formulaic approach to the news exposé was recognized by millions of viewers. Find a suspect (possibly criminal) enterprise, send in a reporter in disguise and tape the whole thing. Hewitt's targets were usually businesses, large and small.

There are, however, no Don Hewitt's at the networks anymore. Glen Beck said it best yesterday:

During Beck's show on Monday, he stood in front of a blackboard-like screen, citing statistics that he said demonstrated the mainstream media's lackadaisical coverage of the ACORN and Van Jones stories. "Reports on Van Jones, from appointment to resignation. Look at this: Fox had 51 reports on this guy. CNN was next, with nine. MSNBC, two. The New York Times, one. Washington Post, four. The ACORN corruption -- this is your money. Fox has had 133 reports on it. CNN, 90. MSNBC, 10 -- how's that possible? Hey, ABC, how's it working out for you, with two?" Beck's onscreen tally credited CBS with two Jones stories, and ABC and NBC with one apiece.

The succession of such controversial stories has exposed blind spots in both the Obama administration and the press, with the president's aides at first trying to ignore critics they considered shrill or ignorant, and networks and newspapers finding themselves flat-footed when issues they had ignored caught fire online and on cable.

Breitbart's covert interviews brought about a stunningly fast political response, an 83-7 Senate vote to defund ACORN. It remains to be seen if the Obama Justice Department will investigate and prosecute the crimes depicted on the various tapes.

Joe Scarborough gets to the heart of the big media reluctance to cover a story like this. It is their cow that is getting gored. If it was a conservative cow, well that's a different matter:

On his radio show Tuesday, Scarborough debated the media's coverage of ACORN and Van Jones with NBC chief White House correspondent Chuck Todd, who said he believed these stories can be a "crutch" for conservatives looking to highlight instances of media bias.

"If the Christian Coalition, in 1995, had a sting operation carried on against it by a liberal group, I guarantee you it would have been front page, New York Times, the next day, " Scarborough said, "and people like me would have been called out, people saying, 'how could you ever, ever justify supporting a group that would teach people how to violate the tax code and promote prostitution.'"

Breitbart has touched a nerve with these pieces and, while certain segments of the old media are dutifully ignoring it, voters and some politicians are paying close attention. The Liberal Crack Up continues.


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Comments (70)

"It remains to be seen if t... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"It remains to be seen if the Obama Justice Department will investigate and prosecute the crimes depicted on the various tapes."

Holder? Holder? Eric Holder? Anyone see the Attorney General of the US? He still on vacation? Possibly vacating cases already won by the Justice (Sic) Department. Possibly giving legal advice to ACORN?

Anyone got a spare milk carton?

Charlie Gibson owes the peo... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Charlie Gibson owes the people of the US an apology. So does ABC news. They should also get off their fat ass and actually cover some news. I'm really not all that interested in the celebrity gossip that passes for hard news today, nor does the fashion commentary on what Michelle Obama is wearing pass as political coverage.

The whole episode just demonstrates where the power is today in the news media. The MSM have the volume control. The new media has the power button.

I'm sure the next move of A... (Below threshold)

I'm sure the next move of ABC and/or CNN will be to launch their own thorough, hard-hitting investigation

...of James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles.

Let's role play for a momen... (Below threshold)

Let's role play for a moment. You're in charge of a major media outlet. For years, you've been getting your outfit more and more involved in politics and advocacy, in support of organizations and politicians you favor and against those you don't. Oh, at first it was innocent, but eventually even you realized what you were doing, maybe even came to relish the role: after all, now you were part of the story, not just watching from the sidelines. You were important.

Well, over time, you started losing your audience. There might be a million reasons why, including ever more entertainment options, and the online world where (as one local news guy put it to me more than ten years ago), "everyone can gossip with everyone else as if they knew anything." Besides, all your peers are also losing customers, so it's not like it's anything you're doing. But then along comes a new outlet, with a remarkably different slant on the news. And the more you vilify them as extremists and out of touch with ordinary people, the more your ratings sink and theirs grow. Most importantly, a series of scandals at your own organization and among your competitors, combined with the rise of those pesky online sites, has dramatically reduced your ability to kill a story by ignoring it, or to set a story by constantly talking about it.

Now, in that environment, along comes a year where your reputation and audience have been in free fall, and your competitors' have too — except for that one outlier who really is too beyond the pale even to consider as part of your own profession. They're advocates and extremists for goodness' sake: they promote conservatives! And after a series of events that make it clear that you're not paying attention to anything bad from the side you advocate for (though certainly you wouldn't call it that, even to yourself - let's say, the "right" side), and are not paying attention to any kind of facts that don't fit your increasingly unrealistic worldview, along comes a story....

Now this is a story that everyone can understand: an organization founded to help people in need, or at least so it claims, is found to have been telling people systematically and to all appearances as a matter of policy how to not only evade taxes and run an illegal business, but to import child prostitutes and hide them from the law. Child prostitutes! And caught on film: pretty undeniable evidence of systemic corruption and immorality of the most vile kind, the kind that used to be condemned from any source.

Now, do you:

(a) ignore the story, hoping it will go away, in a probably-vain attempt to protect the "right" side the way you used to,

(b) give the story minimal, pooh-poohing coverage and try to minimize the damage, or

(c) run with the story and just give people the best information you have.

If you picked anything but (c), congratulations! You too can be a major media executive, presiding over businesses worth less than the ground under their buildings.

"Fox had 51 reports on t... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

"Fox had 51 reports on this guy. CNN was next, with nine. MSNBC, two. The New York Times, one. Washington Post, four."

All this illustrates is the extent to which Fox New is bat-shit crazy - just like their audience. The story hit on a holiday weekend, and nothing says "holiday fun" on Fox News like a black man swinging from a tree.

Vic
depp=true

Oh, Vic...So, wher... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Oh, Vic...

So, where is Mr. Jones hanging his hat these days?

How go things for ACORN?

I know your answer... "facts are stupid things."

And what a shabby use of the race card. I mean, if you're going to pull that kind of bullshit, at least put a little effort into it. That use was practically a textbook example of "contractual obligation..."

J.

Nothing says "holiday fun" ... (Below threshold)
RicardoVerde:

Nothing says "holiday fun" to a leftist like having a conspiracy mongering communist in charge of $80 billion in taxpayer money. Is that what #5 meant? I think it was.

So Vic -Are you sa... (Below threshold)
jim m:

So Vic -

Are you saying that it is racist to expose someone aiding and abetting a child prostitution ring engaged in international sex slave trade when the person doing the aiding and abetting is a liberal Obama supporter?

Just checking, because that IS what you just said.

Or maybe you're just upset because it's going to get harder for you to find your 13 year olds from now on.

vic - "All this illustr... (Below threshold)
Marc:

vic - "All this illustrates is the extent to which Fox New is bat-shit crazy - just like their audience."

Ever hear of the phrase "crazy as a fox?"

That aside, how typical of an asshat such as yourself to completely ignore the substance of the post and hurl insults instead.

Or perhaps we should believe you're in favor of tax cheats, support of whore houses with tax money and the importation of minors for sex slavery.

And BTW vic - "The stor... (Below threshold)
Marc:

And BTW vic - "The story hit on a holiday weekend, and nothing says "holiday fun" on Fox News like a black man swinging from a tree."

That's factually incorrect. The story first broke last week not on the weekend and funny thing, they were black women not "a black man," "swinging," or otherwise.

But we know facts to your like garlic to a vampire, or a correct IRS from to Rangle.

VIC writes,"........... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

VIC writes,
"...........and nothing says "holiday fun" on Fox News like a black man swinging from a tree."

And Reagan would reply, "there you go again".

VIC, dude, lashing out with lies won't get you anywhere. You know who has pretty much proven that.

Mr. Sturm in comments prior... (Below threshold)
RicardoVerde:

Mr. Sturm in comments prior to this one had some pretty good points, but I think the senate's vote today adds a little feedback to the effect of the citizens outing this past weekend and the (ongoing) freelance journalism we've seen. Will this stuff be enough to correct the wayward ways of the president and congress? The answer is no, not in and of itself. But, they do have effects, and the effects are in the direction we need the country to go to get back to the fundamentals. Tea Parties, town halls, and the like are just SOME of the tools in our tool bag. To readjust our nations course will require more tools to be used, and these tools to be applied over and again.

VICAll this... (Below threshold)
retired military:

VIC


All this illustrates is the extent to which Fox New is bat-shit crazy - just like their audience."

Actually it illustrates how in the tank the MSM is for the democrats.


"The story hit on a holiday weekend, and nothing says "holiday fun" on Fox News like a black man swinging from a tree."

The story hit the MSM on a holiday weekend not Fox news who had been reporting it for weeks. The reason the story hit on a holiday weekend was because DUH that was when he resigned.
Strange how that works out. He resigns on a holiday weekend and it gets reported on a holiday weekend.


Let me know next time you want to play "Clueless liberals mouthing talking points" for $2000.

Today's video comes from Ca... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Today's video comes from California and the ACORN worker is white.

Kind of lays the lie to the racism thing doesn't it?

I liked the part where she tells O'Keefe that she is willing to murder to help him cover up his crimes. Nice touch that.

Vic - you are a very sick p... (Below threshold)
Madalyn:

Vic - you are a very sick person. I hope you will apologize for your comment. That is totally uncalled for.
Madalyn

"To readjust our nation... (Below threshold)
Marc:

"To readjust our nations course will require more tools to be used, and these tools to be applied over and again."

Yepper, and it starts with term limits enacted shortly after kicking out all, I repeat ALL current members of Congress regardless of party.

It continues with limiting their pay raise to what the current inflation rate is, if any, in addition to slicing pay in half AND building them all nice barracks to live in while they preside over the House and Senate in a time frame of no more than 6 months per year.

You know...This whole ACORN... (Below threshold)
jim m:

You know...This whole ACORN thing has me rethinking things.

Dems really are in favor of small business. Just child prostituting, slave trading, tax evading small businesses. (perhaps the murder is just a side line)

I think we should outlaw al... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

I think we should outlaw all non-profit organizations. How un-American can you get? Every enterprise should be required to listed on the stock exchange and if you lose money let the market forces work. This will get rid of all those food pantries feeding the lazy people of America and the charity organizations that hand out subsidies to the lazy people of America.

I also believe that everyone should be able opt out of Medicare and get reimbursed the money they put in it. Minus the money they have taken out and if they have taken out more than they put in they should repay the American people for subsidizing their health care. The average person puts in about $36,000 over a life time and that should be plenty of money to buy a private insurance plan for their golden years. If they have preexisting conditions that is too bad. If you can't take care of yourself don't expect someone else to do it for you. This is America.

Marc: "That's factually ... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

Marc: "That's factually incorrect. The story first broke last week not on the weekend and funny thing, they were black women not "a black man," "swinging," or otherwise."

Apparently your commenters don't read what you write and quote, Jay.

"Reports on Van Jones, from appointment to resignation. Look at this: Fox had 51 reports on this guy. CNN was next, with nine. MSNBC, two. The New York Times, one. Washington Post, four."

Van Jones' resignation happened on the Labor Day holiday weekend - and Van Jones is a man.

"But we know facts to your like garlic to a vampire, or a correct IRS from to Rangle."

Apology accepted.

Vic

IF Fox was just making up s... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

IF Fox was just making up stuff, Vic, then Jones would still be directing billions in federal funds.

IF Fox was just making up stuff, Vic, then ACORN wouldn't have fired those employees caught on tape.

Instead, you got nothing but tired old unfounded charges of "racism" and "hate-mongering" and the like.

Man, you really need a new songbook, Vic. You done worn out the binding on that old one.

J.

Vic, your vile comments on ... (Below threshold)

Vic, your vile comments on this thread should be removed.

To you and the rest of the Left, ANY crime committed ACORN, and ANY insane belief espoused by Obama's Czars and advisors cannot be challenged! To do is to be RACIST!

you're sick.

VICThis post was abo... (Below threshold)
jim m:

VIC
This post was about Breitbart and the ACORN scandal.

The commie Van Jones is gone back to his Soros paymaster. Bringing him up was a nonsequitur.

Jim M: "This post was ab... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

Jim M: "This post was about Breitbart and the ACORN scandal.

The commie Van Jones is gone back to his Soros paymaster. Bringing him up was a nonsequitur.

I quoted from this post - paragraph 3.

Apology accepted.

Justrand: "To you and the rest of the Left, ANY crime committed ACORN, and ANY insane belief espoused by Obama's Czars and advisors cannot be challenged! To do is to be RACIST!

you're sick."

I didn't comment on the ACORN issue, I commented on the Van Jones news coverage reported by Jay.

Apology accepted.

Vic

Leave Vic alone. Obamabots ... (Below threshold)
Teresa:

Leave Vic alone. Obamabots are like 8 year olds on a playground. When they can't debate policy, they throw at rock at you. Very grown up. I'm way past the name calling at this point. For some, ignorance truly IS bliss. Run and play, Vic.

Would love to see Sarah Pal... (Below threshold)
G.:

Would love to see Sarah Palin should look down her nose at Gibson and ask "So Charlie do you support the acorn doctrine?"

WC you make the same mistak... (Below threshold)
jim m:

WC you make the same mistake that all ignorant people make about 'not-for-profit' organizations.

Such organizations do not have as a purpose to make a profit and to distribute that profit to their ownership, but rather they have the purpose to make a profit (yes) and return that profit into the operation of the organization.

Since not-for-profit organizations are real companies they have to make a profit in order to keep functioning. They may not necessarily make a profit from operations, but may do so through donations etc. Truth be told many not-for-profit organizations are amongst the most successful businesses going.

That being said there are not-for-profit organizations that are amongst the most unamerican going. In fact ALL universities fall under this classification and their faculty qualify as some of the most unamerican people I have met based on their interest in denying people basic liberties because these enlightened elitists think they know better.

Maybe you're right. Maybe we should close all the universities and make the lazy jerks work for a living.

No apology given VIC. ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

No apology given VIC.

You still are in the position of saying that Breitbart's stories (all of them)and the coverage of them by other media outlets is racist.

My post from #8 still stands.

Jones was a self proclaimed radical communist. Was pointing that out and taking issue with it racist?

Are you saying that any disagreement with a black person is racist? Or is it only racist when they are not a sell out, uncle Tom or house N. like they called Clarence Thomas and Condoleeza Rice? I guess calling them (and other conservative blacks) these things is OK. Only conservatives can be racist, liberals can never be.

To be fair to Vic I too rec... (Below threshold)
JustRuss:

To be fair to Vic I too recognized that responders had misunderstood his post. However Vic, since when has a holiday weekend stopped the media from reporting the news?

Were there not still live feeds and live talking heads on the other networks? Do they not have people monitoring stories coming out of the White House?

As for your completely racist comment congratulations Vic on being a complete ass. When, WHEN? Has anyone on this blog ever said anything about the fact that Van Jones was black? When did Glenn Beck ever cast aspersions at Mr. Jones based on his skin color and not his documented statements?

Your worse than dog poo Vic, you are the dog poo that gets stuck in the crevices of my shoe that you can't scrape out in the grass, and makes every thing around you smell like poo for the rest of the day.

Anyone smell that?

Oh sorry, I stepped in some liberal bull earlier and I can't seem to rid myself of the taint.

Look Vic,Van Jones put his ... (Below threshold)
G.:

Look Vic,Van Jones put his own neck in the noose and then jumped from the tree himself( or was it he was pushed by his boss).

Jim M,Not-for-prof... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

Jim M,

Not-for-profit also means not-for-paying taxes. I am sure you love to subsidize the property taxes they don't pay, the sales taxes they don't pay and all the other taxes they don't pay. Why don't you just hand over your pay check to the United Way and let them take care of you.

Damn skippy the universities in the US have never contributed one bit of anything to America except to churn out generations of "educated" Americans that have made us fat and weak. Especially now-a-days where all they do is train foriegners, most of them probably illegal, to take jobs away from hard working Americans.

Oh I forgot to say at least... (Below threshold)
G.:

Oh I forgot to say at least you're watching or reading Fox Vic. Have to give you some credit for that.

"However Vic, since when ha... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"However Vic, since when has a holiday weekend stopped the media from reporting the news?"

Well to be fair, they did cover that "The Naked Cowboy" would NOT be running for mayor of NY. Priorities.

There is not a major news outlet in this country that doesn't have TV sets set to the competition's channels to make sure they're not being left behind. For Charlie Gibson to say he was "unaware" of the ACORN story is BS. Then he slipped in the sly comment about "cable news channels". In Charlie's world there is only ONE cable news channel, FOX.
No, Charlie was "aware", Charlie just wanted to play coy...hahahahahahha. Only Charlie came off as sounding stupid instead. Wonder if Sarah Palin was "aware" of the ACORN story? That would GASP! put her ONE UP on Charlie.

WC - Not-for-profit is an i... (Below threshold)
jim m:

WC - Not-for-profit is an interesting thing. It seems that taxes are paid out of your PROFIT you dope! If an organization like a food pantry, a homeless shelter, or one of those money grubbing hospitals rolls any excess from operations back into those operations they have no profit to pay taxes from.

I realize that your original post was facetious, but it was also stupid and uninformed.

Otherwise by all means please explain why you want to put food pantries, homeless shelters and the Salvation Army out of business...

GarandFan - There IS only o... (Below threshold)
jim m:

GarandFan - There IS only one cable news channel. At least there is only one of consequence. For that matter all the other news organizations are green with envy over their viewership numbers.

Charlie just inadvertently admitted what everyone else already knows: If you want to get actual news and information - watch Fox.

"You still are in the po... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

"You still are in the position of saying that Breitbart's stories (all of them)and the coverage of them by other media outlets is racist."

I didn't comment on Breitbart's stories. I commented on the analysis of the news coverage of the Van Jones story, as reported and quoted by Jay. I used Jay's facts and pointed out that the others weren't deficient in their
coverage -- but that Fox News went over the top bat-shit crazy on the story.

Apology accepted.

Justrand: "Vic, your vile comments on this thread should be removed."

Yes, someone might read this and notice that facts have no basis in the arguments some made against me. Facts are ignored.

Someone might notice the way that some on the right go off half-cocked and shoot first without knowing what the hell they're talking about.

Someone might notice the vitriol of the "shout em down and make em pay" thug and mob hooligan mentality practiced by some on the right as they ignore facts and make up their own.

Reality has no home in the arguments made by some of the looney conservatives out there.

Someone might notice...

Vic

"To be fair to Vic I too... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

"To be fair to Vic I too recognized that responders had misunderstood his post. However Vic, since when has a holiday weekend stopped the media from reporting the news?"

They didn't stop their reporting - they just didn't go over the top like Fox News. 51 reports? That's bat-shit crazy.

Others gave it the appropriate amount of coverage.

Fox News went rabid. They smelled blood. The had a black man on the end of a rope and they swung that rope every 10 minutes.

"Yee haw! Lookee what we caught!"

Fox News Channel Corporate took a beating over the Beck advertiser boycott and here they (Glenn Beck himself) had caught the founder of the organization which launched the boycott and they took great glee in trumpeting Van Jones' downfall - as evidenced by their over-the-top amazing 51 reports on Van Jones.

Facts! Those are the facts. Ignore them. Hate me. But those are the facts.

Vic

Jim M,That is my w... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

Jim M,

That is my whole point. Why are you being so dense? Your and my money is subsidising lazy people. Why are you okay with that? You sound like a socialist to me.

Why do you want to keep giving handouts to people who won't help themselves? Nobody goes hungry or is homeless in this country unless they don't want to work. This is American, if you can't take care of yourself then you are a drain on the system.

"Fox News Channel Corporate... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Fox News Channel Corporate took a beating over the Beck advertiser boycott"

Better check your FACTS vic. They moved their ad spots to other time slots. Even the MSM has conceded that.

"Why do you want to keep gi... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Why do you want to keep giving handouts to people who won't help themselves? Nobody goes hungry or is homeless in this country unless they don't want to work. This is American, if you can't take care of yourself then you are a drain on the system.

37. Posted by WorldCitizen

Got the Alinsky Playbook memorized don't ya?

WC - just in case you want ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

WC - just in case you want to play stupid like Charlie Gibbs:

RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.

Here's one for you WC:

RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon."

You look like a pretty fucking stupid fool right now, don't you?

Mods,is #5 not vile ... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Mods,
is #5 not vile enough for the hammer?

Come on people, feeding the trolls is bad; but do you really have to serve it a 10-course meal?

From Instapundit:"AN... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

From Instapundit:
"ANN ALTHOUSE'S COMMENT SECTION IS infiltrated by a troll trying to make her blog look racist. Since cries of racism are all the lefties seem to have (er, well, except for the cries of Obama's just doing what Bush did!) expect more of this kind of thing, at varying levels of sophistication."

I've noticed this elsewhere and at Wizbang too, lately.
This supposed 'racist' crap has been getting old for years now. It seems we have reached a new low in discourse with disingenuous claims of 'racism' lately.

If you don't punish them, you'll get more of it.

Alinsky - RULE 12: Pick the... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Alinsky - RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective.)

People expressing their opinion are therefore:
"a mob", "racist", "tools of the establishment and corporations", "fools", "illiterate", "rednecks", "terrorists", "Nazis".

However:

Alinksy - RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Become old news.

The thing is, when rule 12 is used, mention that it is Rule 12 and DEMAND PROOF!

In the meantime, use Rule 5 on them.

GrandFan,I had not... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

GrandFan,

I had not heard of Alinsky, but I will look him up. As long as he is in an American encyclopedia. You think I would go to some liberal college communist breeding ground to learn about what some foreigner had to say about anything?

If someone can't afford something they should learn to do without. Is that something you are opposed to?

I find it easier to be hard charging red blooded American than some wussified milktoast pansy. No wringing of hands involved. You are with me or against me. You either pay your own way or get out of mine. Good or evil, there is no middle ground.

You people who are all for food banks and welfare are going to start saying I should start paying for some poor lazy bastard to get medicine. Screw them, if you made plans to ensure your financial and physical well being that is not my problem. Why don't you all just head off to the Daily Kos or some such place like that.

Vic seems to have wandered ... (Below threshold)
Anti Vic:

Vic seems to have wandered in here, bent over and spread 'em. I'm sure his cell mates appreciate that habit very much.

I've stepped in puddles deeper than Vic's intellectual capacity. I do hope his keepers know he is playing on their computer when he's supposed to be napping. I wonder if he has to remove his crash helmet and drool bucket before his nap?

Vic: "Someone might notice... (Below threshold)
Anti Vic:

Vic: "Someone might notice the vitriol of the "shout em down and make em pay" thug and mob hooligan mentality practiced by some on the right as they ignore facts and make up their own."

Calling the kettle black there pot? Must be downright blissful living in ignorant world.

WC:Very nice, pres... (Below threshold)
JustRuss:

WC:

Very nice, present the false argument. Its in that book somewhere...

A food bank, A Charity Hospital, Salvation Army... The difference here is that people give to these organizations of their own free will. Conservatives give more to charity than Liberals on any day of the year. Liberals want to give charity using other peoples money instead of their own.

That is what the problem is with Govt Healthcare.

And Vic... WTF Dude? "Swung him every 10 minutes?" Fox reporting what SHOULD have been the main news story twice an hour (a little more) is not "bat shit crazy" as you call it. What was the main news story run at the 30 minute marks on the other networks on labor day weekend? The US Open, because we all need to know about a GAME when real news breaks.

#37"That is my who... (Below threshold)
914:

#37

"That is my whole point. Why are you being so dense? Your and my money is subsidising lazy people. Why are you okay with that? You sound like a socialist"

Everything isnt about money idiot.

Hey, people! Quit making fu... (Below threshold)
Mike G in Corvallis:

Hey, people! Quit making fun of Vic. He's in severe pain.

Don't you know it hurts to be that stupid?

JustRuss,Exactly r... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

JustRuss,

Exactly right! I know the good conservative American people here on Wizbang give generously of the hard earned money and precious time to help those in need and that does my heart good to know that. But doesn't it chap your ass when you see who "need". I mean there would be no poor in this country without liberals, communists and illegals. I never met an honest hard working conservative that ever needed or would even think to ask for help from someone else. A true conservative is never out of a job for very long and that is what we need more of in this country. People who are not afraid to put in an honest days work for minimum wage. But there I go talking all liberal, "minimum wage", what traitor came up with that idea. If you need to feed your family you should be able to take what you can get without some politician getting in the way of American business.

I am with you JustRuss, all the way to a greater America.

vic - "Apparently your ... (Below threshold)
Marc:

vic - "Apparently your commenters don't read what you write and quote, Jay."

On the contrary, I quoted you, what YOU wrote in comment number 5.

To quote your fantasy lover van jones, you're an asshole.

I wrote this in a previous ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

I wrote this in a previous thread:

the shorter the amount of time a conservative is labelled a racist, the higher the probability that the conservative is winning the argument.

Consider this, Victory is Ours played the race card 37 minutes after the post was published.

The difference, WorldCitize... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

The difference, WorldCitizen, is that someone who was an actual conservative would not expect that his help should come in the form of the government seizing property from someone else.

Marc doubles down on his "L... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

Marc doubles down on his "Look, I"m an idiot" card.... "On the contrary, I quoted you, what YOU wrote in comment number 5."

Here's what Marc wrote in comment #10.

"That's factually incorrect. The story first broke last week not on the weekend and funny thing, they were black women not "a black man," "swinging," or otherwise."

I commented on the Van Jones reporting. Van Jones is a black man. His resignation happened on Labor Day Weekend.

When Joe Wilson gets it wrong he apologizes. When Marc gets it wrong he doubles down and gets it wrong again.

Someone might notice that Marc takes great care in making sure facts have no basis in his arguments.

Either that or he's just plain stupid.

Marc appears to be one of those Republican loud-mouthed, foul-mouthed thugs that doesn't know what the hell they are talking about, but yells it out anyway. Just like Joe Wilson.

Vic

WC # 50:It does in... (Below threshold)
JustRuss:

WC # 50:

It does indeed chap a bit to see who are "in need" most of the time. But you seem to think that conservatives are completely heartless and unbelievably lucky.

I lost my job and was out of work for almost a year, I was on unemployment but not welfare/foodstamps/medicaid etc. You are right, a true conservative won't be out of a job very long if jobs are available. I was only out of work because McDonalds wouldn't hire me, I had too much experience!

But there are times when even the best of us cannot get out of the hole without a hand up. That is the difference between private charity and government entitlement programs. Charity gives a hand up without making you dependent on them. Government programs give you a hand out and are happy to keep you "on the rolls" because when you are dependent on them you vote for those who want to keep or expand those programs.

There is nothing wrong with social programs which require you to pay into them as long as they don't bleed money like Medicare or Social Security. Unemployment insurance works rather well because you pay into it when you are working, then you get a set time period after which your money runs out and you don't get a check any longer.

Community / Civic services like Police and Firefighters are not socialist ideas they are societal ideas. Unbiased(hopefully) public servants who will save your house or our property or your life regardless of who pays for the water or the bullets or the paychecks.

Even public roads work when they don't rape the funds and then have to find another way to pay for them (again with the bleeding money). However there are entire expressways and bridges constructed and maintained for a toll by private companys and those roads stay in better condition. Mostly because the funds go back into the project not to other government programs.

You mistake conservatism for obstructionist stubbornism or religious zealotry. Granted I am a bit closer to the middle than some on the Right but I believe that Federal Government has its place, which is spelled out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Other than collecting taxes to maintain a military and pay the three branches they need to BUTT THE HELL OUT!

Everything else should be State Level, if a state is corrupted (read Louisiana) then it will die a painful death and be replaced by a new government in the next state election. If the people continue to vote for corrupt politicians then they deserve what they get (Detroit).

I don't want people to starve, I don't want people to be homeless, I don't want children to have no new clothes or school supplies or education.

However

I don't want the government to steal money out of my check, waste half of it and then give food stamps to people when I can just donate straight to a charity either with money or non-perishable goods.

I don't want to pay for housing projects that concentrate poor and lower class families together and force families to be single parent in order to qualify for welfare checks. Nor do I want Government to force lenders to give bad loans to people who they know cannot pay them if the slightest change occurs in their lives or the economy.

I do like the idea of taking education money out of taxes, I don't like the idea that if my childs school is underperforming I then have to pay again to send them to another school. When children go to public school which are perceived as "Free" and in fact would be "Free" to parents who don't work; those parents have no vested interest in the success of their child at that school. When you pay for education you damn well make sure your kids are getting one. Parent involvement is something sorely lacking in most children who underachieve.

I also do not want teachers at public school to be tenured in any way. They should be paid according to how well their students perform with no allotment for what color the students are. A child is a child and a successful teacher would be able to reach all of them. If a teacher consistently turns out poor performance she should be fired. I am willing to make allotments for non-english as first language children (children of illegals often) and performance would be judged based on the other teachers at that school not district, city, state or nationwide.

WorldCitizen your arguments are false and annoying, you do not get to turn our ideas against us and force us to make a false choice or untrue statement.

Have you not noticed that Conservatives are willing to compromise and Progressives are not? That is why republicans are so pissed off. JFK would be considered a conservative today because the entire political structure has shifted so far to the left.

We keep compromising and giving just a little more to the left and they NEVER give anything back. They are spoiled children, next time they hold their breath I hope they choke.

Vic:You cannot arg... (Below threshold)
JustRuss:

Vic:

You cannot argue the facts so you are attacking people who misread your comment. It is getting just as old as that race card you keep in your wallet.

Drop it already and find another thread to torment us on, the ACORN threads are open.

Why don't you all just head... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Why don't you all just head off to the Daily Kos or some such place like that.

44. Posted by WorldCitizen | September 16, 2009 12:55 AM

Hey WC that's great! David Axelrod teach you that?

"There is nothing wrong ... (Below threshold)
Steve:

"There is nothing wrong with social programs which require you to pay into them as long as they don't bleed money like Medicare or Social Security.

Feel free to demonstrate how the $1 TRILLION spent on the Iraq war "broke even".

The Republicans bled a trillion dollars from our economy fighting a phony war in Iraq but they want to see poor Americans, including single-parent mothers and pregnant women and their unborn children, go without health care.

Conservative "anti-logic" is mind-boggling.

JustRuss - I agree 100%. Yo... (Below threshold)
Madalyn:

JustRuss - I agree 100%. You have nailed it. Our taxes that we pay thru the nose for are being wasted by politicians who enable those who refuse to do for themselves. I am referring to 3 and 4 generation welfare abusers. I am also referring to those illegals who are turning our country into the filth and destruction that they "fled to get away from". I am referring to those who are not acting responsiblty when they jump into bed and get pregnant, and expect the rest of us to either pay for an abortion or support her and her kid for life. I am sick to death of these people. And if I state my case, I am either a "racist" of "cold-hearted". Cut the crap and start acting like humans. Where is social services when women go on Maury or Jerry Springer and have 7 or 8 kids with different fathers. What about those men who are proven by DNA that they are the father of 13 or more kids and are not supporting any of them. I say lets take back our country and put it back on track. We need to take responsibility for our own actions and
quit demanding we pay for all your mistakes.
Start showing respect for your fellow Americans and open your eyes and see what your actions have done to all of the rest of us. You are a drain on society. Politicians can white-wash it (oops, there I go, the racist that I am) all they want, but a dirty pig is a dirty pig. Call it a potential purse, but I call it what it is. Some people will never agree with me, but at least I do not expect anyone to pay my rent, buy my food, pay my medical bills, or entertain me. I pay dearly for that, plus what I pay for worthless lazy bums. My pocket has been picked, I have been legally robbed of my wallet and my rights, and too many people are just standing by not willing to do anything about it. I thank God for all those who are attending tea parties and protesting the desecration of a wonderful country. I want it back!
My opinion
Madalyn

The Republicans bl... (Below threshold)
Eric:
The Republicans bled a trillion dollars from our economy fighting a phony war in Iraq but they want to see poor Americans, including single-parent mothers and pregnant women and their unborn children, go without health care.

Steve, please answer these questions. I mean that sincerely.

1) What do you consider to be a fair amount of taxes each person should have to pay for healthcare for everyone? What would you consider to be unfair? For example, is a 100% tax fair?

2) How much are YOU personally willing to pay for the healthcare of poor Americans?

3) Should we limit paying for healthcare to just poor Americans or should we pay for the healthcare of illegal immigrants too?

4) Should all Americans pay for the healthcare of Bill Gates?

Are you so embarrassed, Eri... (Below threshold)
Steve:

Are you so embarrassed, Eric, so embarrased that you can't defend the conservative position that it's ok to let unborn children go without health care but it's perfectly okay to hand no-bid contracts to Halliburton?

A trillion American dollars were spent on the Iraq war.

I would be too. Right wing hypocrisy is ugly, and having it exposed and mocked must really sting.

Portect unborn children, Eric. Support a public option for Health Care reform.

Even unborn children of poor parents deserve to have health care - don't they Eric?

Please - just answer this question.

Tell us why conservatives oppose health care for unborn children of poor parents, Eric.

JustRuss,I appreci... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

JustRuss,

I appreciate the time you took on your post to me. I will stop with my real American alter ego for this.

I am sorry you had trouble finding work for so long. However, it is the employer that pays unemployment insurance and not the employee. You did not pay anything into the pot of money that you drew from and that would be a government program. My point with this is that I don't think any government programs get started in order to work badly. Many of them end up and actually start that way because the size of the problems trying to be addressed and the number of people using the programs. If all the government had to do was sell widgets they could probably do that rather well.

Private charities are certainly a great thing but they tend to deal with specialized issues and not with systemic problems. We can't expect that there will be a charity that will cover the health care cost of everyone over 65 in the US. That is why Medicare was created. Social Security is another program where we can't expect private charities to supplement the income of all senior citizens. Welfare is a a whole other thing. Does it get abused? Certainly, but I believe that more people are helped by it than take advantage of it.

Funding of public schools is a vital task of our communities. I do not have any children and so I am paying for "your" kid's education. This is something I am more than willing to do because of the value I put in a knowledgeable electorate. I don't think your black and white approach to teacher performance and retention is a fair system especially when standards are set by bureaucrats thousands of miles from a school district.

I believe that you think my arguments are annoying, but I guaranty you that I can find you many people who would not consider them false. And, this may not be you but many on this blog, giving me the choice between Obama being the antichrist and being the messiah is a false choice as well. He is just a politician that got elected.

I can't agree with you on who compromises more. I think it is more a function of who has the majority at the time. The minority has to make concessions or nothing they want to do will get passed.

Anyway, have a good day.

Steve<blockqu... (Below threshold)
JustRuss:

Steve

Feel free to demonstrate how the $1 TRILLION spent on the Iraq war "broke even".

The Republicans bled a trillion dollars from our economy fighting a phony war in Iraq but they want to see poor Americans, including single-parent mothers and pregnant women and their unborn children, go without health care.

Conservative "anti-logic" is mind-boggling.

Steve the war in Iraq is not a social program it is a military campaign; a very successful campaign despite setbacks, in Vietnam or Korea we lost as many people in a single day as we have in Iraq total. Conservatives do not want to see these people go without healthcare, we are pro reform, just anti obamacare/HR3200 as it currently stands; we do not need a huge socialist style NHS to fix it. Besides, since when are you pro-life?

Do ou know how you care for unborn children? Eat right, stay healthy, don't do drugs or smoke or drink, and most of all BE ABLE TO PAY FOR THAT CHILD YOURSELF! If you cannot support a child you have no right to have sex or the ability to reproduce.

Madalyn

I agree with your sentiment, but I do believe there is room for social programs. There just needs to be accountability and reform built into the system. You should be required to work for the government while on welfare, out picking up trash or stamping license plates or digging ditches just like prisoners. And there should be a limitation on funds. You are NOT allowed to spend YEARS on welfare, you are NOT allowed to keep having children if you are shown to have fathered/mothered more than three kids that you cannot provide for. I would agree to have the government pay for the surgery, it would be cheaper in the long run.

WorldCitizen

However, it is the employer that pays unemployment insurance and not the employee.

I realized that after I posted it but wasn't able to make it back to the computer until now. However you realize that people are paid less because of the "benefits" that are imposed on employers including unemployment insurance, I would get paid more where I am now if the employer did not have a health care plan for me to buy into. However I am fine with that, it was in the contract I signed when I took the job. So I did pay, I just never saw the money.

As for the rest of your response, I find some of your arguments annoying, but just as with Steve Sturm I find that most of the time yours are decently reasoned arguments. What I took offense to was your false conservatism trying to paint us all as uncaring "me,me,me" selfish people who don't want to help.

If compromise went both ways then we would still have a Leave-it-to-Beaver or Donna Reid style country. Granted, many of the changes that have taken place were needed and have made this country better for it. But as this administration has brought to a head; The country has trended dangerously toward Socialism because most of the compromise has been on the Conservative part. Democrats tend to be stubborn (donkey is fitting) and whine and hold their breath until Republicans roll their eyes and suck up their pride and values in order to get anything at all done.

Never does the left say "You know what? You are right! I'm sorry, lets do it your way." They always do it grudgingly and only if they can reinterpret the language of the bill next time they are in power to make it a good thing for them.

Steve - Tell us why con... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Steve - Tell us why conservatives oppose health care for unborn children of poor parents, Eric.

Better question - show me one that does oppose it?

Pssst... you're an idiot, pass it around.

Who's doubling-down vic?<br... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Who's doubling-down vic?
It appears to be you. As pointed out you said: "All this illustrates is the extent to which Fox New is bat-shit crazy - just like their audience. The story hit on a holiday weekend, and nothing says "holiday fun" on Fox News like a black man swinging from a tree.

Yet in your latest piece of shit comment you claim you opined (comment #54): "I commented on the Van Jones reporting. Van Jones is a black man. His resignation happened on Labor Day Weekend."

Sorry asshole commenting "on the Van Jones reporting" is far different than saying the van jones "story hit on a holiday weekend."

World Citizen reads like, l... (Below threshold)

World Citizen reads like, looks like, posts
like a moby.

Hey, people! Quit making fu... (Below threshold)
G.:

Hey, people! Quit making fun of Vic. He's in severe pain.

Don't you know it hurts to be that stupid?

49. Posted by Mike G in Corvallis | September 16, 2009 3:31 AM

And We know you can't fix stupid!

JustRuss - I don't have a p... (Below threshold)
Madalyn:

JustRuss - I don't have a problem with giving a helping hand to someone who desparately needs it. I do have a problem with people who do nothing but milk the system. Living off other people has gotten to be an everday occurance to a lot of people. If you are on welfare, I think you should be required to perform sidewalk sweeping, picking up trash in public parks, etc. Cleaning toilets at a rest stop along the freeway is honest work. I would not turn my nose up at it if I was unemployed with kids to support. Where has the integrity of Americans gone? I don't see any changes in welfare generations with the current administration. They appear to relish doling out hard-earnd money of ours to those who refuse to work or who is working the system. I worked very hard to support myself and my kids, and I resent rich politicians taking my hard earned money and giving it to someone who is not deserving. If they want to dip into their pockets, fine, but quit robbing me. This is really a sore spot with me. Long story so I won't go into it, but it personally affected me.
Madalyn

Steve,Cute distracti... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Steve,
Cute distraction. Why don't you answer my questions before I answer yours?

I asked first.

Hey guys, don't beat up on ... (Below threshold)
Chuckster:

Hey guys, don't beat up on Vic. It's rather refreshing to see how the moon-bats think. Without him, this thread could get boring, sort of like comedy relief. I love the way he puts up his deflector sheild every time someone makes a valid, provable point, and deflects it to some other idiotic MSNBC talking point. For those of us who throw up every time we click thru Overbite or Madsow, we sometimes lose the overall picture. Fire away Vic.




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