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Gimme That New-Time Irreligion...

When it comes to matters of faith, I've often proclaimed myself a "born-again agnostic." I don't hold to any particular faith, but I don't have problems with those that do. I don't care for and don't quite "get" the in-your-face anti-religious crowd, and -- while I am far closer to their beliefs than the religious -- I think they're -- in a word -- assholes.

That's why these people sound pretty cool to me.

If it wasn't for the whole "I'd never want to be a member of a group which would admit people like me as a member," I'd be tempted to sign up.


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Comments (24)

This reminds me of an old s... (Below threshold)
Sabba Hillel:

This reminds me of an old story that I have seen quoted by Rabbi Berel Wein.

Why did G-d create atheism?

So that when someone poor appeals for help one should not say "G-d will help", but will say "It is up to me" and will help as needed.

Rabbi Wein once came to a wealthy man for help in certain matters. The rich man said "Don't worry Rabbi, G-d will provide."

Rabbi Wein responded, "That's my line. Your job is to write the check for the money that G-d provided."

BTW, I also find it intriguing that the "new atheists" mix up the concepts of "evidence" and "proof". There is plenty of evidence, some good and some better for (or against) the existence of G-d. However, evidence is not proof. What would convince me is not what would convince you and may even move you in the opposite direction that it does me. In fact, that is one of the pieces of evidence that inclines me to believe in G-d. That is G-d has granted Man free will and as such, there must be the possibility of deciding either way.

The old atheists s... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
The old atheists said there was no God. The so-called "New Atheists" said there was no God, and they were vocally vicious about it. Now, the new "New Atheists" -- call it Atheism 3.0 -- say there's still no God, but maybe religion isn't all that bad.

Atheism 4.0 -- says we can't know if God exists or not, but we believe there's no God. That statement of faith makes us just another religion among many.

"God is dead." - Nietsche</... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

"God is dead." - Nietsche

"So are you, Nietsche." - God

Beam Me up when it's over..... (Below threshold)
God:

Beam Me up when it's over..

IMHO, which could be totall... (Below threshold)
Matt:

IMHO, which could be totally wrong, but it's still mine, we already have religion(s) that do not depend on the existence of God. Secular Humanism, Communism, Global Warmer's, various pagan groups etc. The fact that some young athiests have a "discovered" religion without God is not new, mankind has followed this delusion for centuries.

When it comes to atheists, ... (Below threshold)
Matt:

When it comes to atheists, how does one vehemently disbelieve in something that doesn't exist?

When it comes to a... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
When it comes to atheists, how does one vehemently disbelieve in something that doesn't exist?

Missed writing class I see. Here, I'll fix it... Atheists vehemently believe God doesn't exist.

Okay, I'll simplify.<... (Below threshold)
Matt:

Okay, I'll simplify.

How does one actively disbelieve in something that doesn't exist?

Okay, I'll simplif... (Below threshold)
Sabba Hillel:
Okay, I'll simplify.

How does one actively disbelieve in something that doesn't exist?
8. Posted by Matt | October 21, 2009 1:52 PM


Matt: The point is that they do not "actively disbelieve", they actively believe in a particular point of view without any proof. The fact that the point of view is that "G-d does not exist" is no different than actively believing in Zeus, Cthulhu, Quetzalcoetl, or any other non-provable condition. Many of the arguments for this position fall into the same fallacies as many of the arguments against it. However, it is indeed more difficult to prove the nonexistence of something, especially when one can argue that the circumstances for detecting that object have not been specified.

Sometimes it seems that these arguments are statements of the type

Can G-d create a four sided triangle. If not, that disproves G-d's omnipotence

Of course the fallacy in that is obvious. Atheists are no different from any other religious believers when it comes to arguing for their beliefs. Many of them do not even know what they are attempting to claim.

Look at the arguments between the and the Evolutionist many of which only show that neither side knows what creationism or evolutionism are or imply.

Sorry for the typo above, t... (Below threshold)
Sabba Hillel:

Sorry for the typo above, the sentence should read

Look at the arguments between the Creationists and the Evolutionists many of which only show that neither side knows what creationism or evolutionism are or imply.

How does one activ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
How does one actively disbelieve in something that doesn't exist?

In making the statement that God doesn't exist you are claiming to know something that can't be known. You can only believe God doesn't exist.

Teapot.... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

Teapot.

"Okay, I'll simplify.... (Below threshold)
914:

"Okay, I'll simplify.

How does one actively disbelieve in something that doesn't exist?"

BY BEING AN ATHEIST.. It is a choice to look at yourself and imagine where you came from? It is also a choice to play stupid mind games with your soul when there are so many better things to accomplish.

This new group are typical ... (Below threshold)

This new group are typical of the way the world seems to be gravitating, Not hot, not cold but lukewarm in all the decisions that they make.


Matt, here:How can... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

Matt, here:

How can you vehemently disbelieve something you don't believe exists in the first place?

(Hey, the other night I called Rangel a Senator. There are days like that.)


#4Scotty</p... (Below threshold)
914:

#4

Scotty

I'm reminded of the scene i... (Below threshold)
Matt:

I'm reminded of the scene in "The Mummy," where the weasely little guide comes face to face with the Mummy and pulls out his necklace of religious talismans hoping to find the one that will appeal to the Mummy.

Unfortunately I'm afraid that our culture is headed that way more and more.

Hollywood seldom misses a c... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Hollywood seldom misses a chance to take a poke at religion. Believing such people know anything about either religion or life is foolish.

You must convince yourself ... (Below threshold)
JustRuss:

You must convince yourself that there is no higher power. That way you cannot be held responsible for evil you commit in life as long as you don't get caught. Atheism is a defense mechanism of those who wish to impose their will on others and not be held accountable.

The so-called "New Atheists... (Below threshold)
tyree:

The so-called "New Atheists" said there was no God, and they were vocally vicious about it.

And they wound up with a lot of vicious followers who are full of hate.

I hope a few of those people examine their lives and look into this new movement. The country could use a little less viciousness.

Since Im inbetween drinks w... (Below threshold)
914:

Since Im inbetween drinks we'll talk.

maybe not.

fallacy after fallacy... yo... (Below threshold)
Fo:

fallacy after fallacy... you cannot presuppose something that can't be proven. You cannot disprove that God doesn't exist.

silly supersticious people...

fallacy after fall... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
fallacy after fallacy... you cannot presuppose something that can't be proven. You cannot disprove that God doesn't exist.

Nor can you prove God doesn't exit. Thus to say God doesn't exist is to claim you know something that can't be known. To continue to make an unprovable claim as if it were fact is self-delusional and a lie. The best you can say is that you don't believe God exists, and you say that as a matter of faith, not of knowledge. Welcome to the silly superstitious people club, mere human.

Nor can you prove God doesn... (Below threshold)
foosmack:

Nor can you prove God doesn't exit. Thus to say God doesn't exist is to claim you know something that can't be known. To continue to make an unprovable claim as if it were fact is self-delusional and a lie. The best you can say is that you don't believe God exists, and you say that as a matter of faith, not of knowledge. Welcome to the silly superstitious people club, mere human.

----
Right, and you cannot prove that Santa doesn't exist. You probably don't believe in scientific method, so it might be hard to make that work for you. So, I won't go that way. On the topic of me being delusional. Am I delusional for not believing in the virgin birth and that the people lived in a fish, or in Santa. To me, religion, god (over time), and Santa are man-made.

As a matter of faith, I have faith in you, humans. Not in man-made hokus-pokuses. A free world of thought and expression are essentials for a free world. That is why I think our conversation is good.




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