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Ignorance or Intentional Deception?

Yesterday I attended the "House Call" rally on Capitol Hill organized by Michelle Bachmann to protest the health care bill. I saw men, women and children of all ages organized peacefully, singing patriotic songs like "God Bless America" and "The Star Spangled Banner," and shouting chants like "USA, USA, USA," "Kill the Bill," and "Can you hear us now?" Shocking, I know. The people I saw were smiling, laughing, sharing personal stories, and exchanging contact information with new friends. They were expressing concern for their country over what they see as excessive government control and spending. And yes, some of them carried signs like this one, which I photographed:

129.jpg

At the end of the rally two huge copies of the health care bill were held up:

172.jpg

Then Congressman John Culberson of Texas threw the pages of the bill into the crowd and suggested those going to visit their representatives should take a page with them and ask their representative to explain it to them. (This was not the first time Culberson has thrown the bill to the people. In September he posted the bill on Sharedbook so that his constituents could review it and make annotations.)

173.jpg

After the rally ended, attendees peacefully walked across the street to the House office buildings and lined up at the doors to make their wishes known to their representatives in person.

cannon.jpg
(I substituted the picture I had here originally with the one above from Andrea Shea King because it is 100 times better than mine was.)

My friend Zan and I met up with Dan ehl and Mary Katharine Ham after the rally and we talked about how positive and peaceful the event had been. The picture I took shows the background where thousands of people had been standing just minutes earlier. After the people cleared there was not one soda can, plastic bottle, discarded sign, or even one scrap of paper to be seen in that area (in spite of the fact that thousands of pages had just been thrown into the crowd.) No one had come through to clean up. The attendees either picked up their own trash or didn't drop any in the first place. The grass was pristine. I had read about the same behavior at the tea party rallies, but witnessing it firsthand I was amazed and impressed.

181.jpg

We talked a bit about the crowd and Mary Katherine said, "You have to be really determined to see bad in regular Americans to come out here and conclude these are mostly bad people." I could not get what she said out of my head the rest of the day and thought about it again when I read some of the reports in the media this morning. There may have been a few inappropriate signs (I didn't see any, but as many people as were there surely there must have been a few.) There were definitely some people there who wanted to jump on the success of the event and try to attract media attention. The anti-abortion activists there with Randall Terry's group did that outside of Nancy Pelosi's office, tearing up pages of the health care bill and littering her office with them. But that activity of a small few was not even unique to the Republican sponsored event since similar activity took place at a recent, but much smaller rally organized by Congressional Democrats in support of the health care bill. The vast majority of the crowd (I'd estimate 99.999 percent) were peaceful and polite, even when protesting.
Dana Milbank didn't see those thousands. He was too busy focusing on the few writing, "...doesn't it send the wrong message for House Republicans to hold an event on the Capitol grounds full of hateful and gruesome words and images?" (Look at the earlier link to Milbank's account of the Democrat event for comparison.)

Milbank's description was misleading to anyone who was not there. Dan Riehl addressed Milbank's account.

I was at this event, walked it from back to front and side to side. I looked at the signs, I heard the calls. Honestly, I personally didn't see anything that was over the line. The difference I suspect is, unlike Milbank and some others, I didn't go there only to go looking for them.

What a worthless and totally disingenuous hit job on the wonderful act of democracy that took place on the lawn of the Capitol yesterday. Milbank's twisted account driven by his own bias is worthy of nothing but dismissal.

Tim Graham wrote at Newsbusters, "columnist Dana Milbank played the usual game of quoting the wackiest signs and smearing thousands of people with them. "

It is not as if this is anything new. During the rally, Mark Levin anticipated such coverage saying to the media, ""These are citizen patriots out here, and I'm tired of them being smeared." Although not new, this is the worst case I have had so far of a personal experience at an event being so incredibly different than the account I read later in the media.

Another thing I wanted to point out deals with the issue, rather than the rally itself. In the same column, Milbank tried to make the point that since medical personnel from the Capitol physician's office ably attended to a man in the crowd who had a heart attack, the message of the protesters was undercut since some that day were the recipients of "government-run health care." It is hard for me to believe that Milbank does not realize the difference between what happened during the rally and the situation that exists all over the world in countries where the health care system is controlled by the government.

I see the difference because I have a daughter with a serious, chronic health condition that has required frequent surgeries and I have read accounts from others with the same condition in other countries who have had to wait months for a surgery that we were able to schedule in a matter of a few weeks. After the rally, while walking the halls of the Cannon Building, Zan and I met a man from North Carolina who has a dughter with a heart condition. His daughter has also required surgery and he had concerns similar to mine, wanting the best health care for his child as possible. Because a handful of government employees were able to respond to an emergency on the Capitol grounds does not mean that a government controlled health care system would provide the high quality care we currently have. That one example is a far cry from proving a government bureaucracy could provide various forms of treatment to millions of people with a multitude of conditions, some unique and serious, without waiting lines or reduced quality of care. Kind of like the handful of rowdy protesters do not accurately represent the thousands I saw in DC yesterday.

Update: I just noticed that I didn't explicitly explain the title of this post, but it is a reference to the intent of those on the left and in the media who have portrayed the tea parties and rallies like the one I attended yesterday as nasty, negative and hate-filled. I don't know if they do so out of ignorance because they have not attended, or because they are determined to intentionally mislead people, but I would encourage anyone who has not been to one of these events to attend and to decide for themselves.

Also, compare the attitude and opinions of those currently denouncing these conservative events to the attitude and opinions they expressed when they covered the anti-war protests. One last point -- Milbank did not make this point so I forgot to bring it up, but there is something unmistakable about these events. If you are a liberal Obama follower you might genuinely believe a sign accusing his policies of being socialist is hate speech. I think that is ridiculous, but no doubt some on the left feel that way about the "socialist" label (to bad they don't have the same aversion to the policies themselves.) But what is unmistakable is the sincerity of those attending these rallies. They are taking time off work, bringing their children, spending their own money, and even driving all night to to get there in some instances. For anyone to describe this as "astroturf" is absurd and marks those making such claims as either grossly uninformed, delusional or in complete denial. The homemade signs are one clue, but just talk to these people for two minutes and you'll have plenty of proof. They care about these issues. Most of them would describe to you their personal reasons for demonstrating -- whether it be medical conditions or economic interests or fear of loss of liberty. If this is not grass roots activism, I don't know what is.

Update II: I don't know how, but I missed Dan Riehl's post today on the rally. It is inspirational and full of truth with a little defiance thrown in for good measure. Please read it all.

I just saw Robert Gibbs' ridiculously uninformed comment about Hitler signs. "Imagine just a few years ago had somebody walked around with images of Hitler." Where has this guy been living for the past eight years? Talk about "being out of touch" or about "ignorance or intentional deception" -- he seriously can't be this clueless about what those on his own side have been doing, can he? Mary Katherine Ham has the best post I've seen on it, doing Gibbs a great service by providing him a primer on the subject of Hitler protest signs. Don't just read this one. Bookmark it so that the next time you hear someone on the left complaining about the angry mob or the use of Hitler images you can just shoot them a link to it.


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Comments (38)

To answer your question - i... (Below threshold)
wright:

To answer your question - intentional deception, of the kind being practiced by the White House re 'saving and creating' jobs.

Reading your ending about c... (Below threshold)

Reading your ending about conflating an emergency with 'health care' I couldn't help but be reminded of Thomas Sowell's column from 11-4:

"Like so many clever things that are said, this argument depends on confusing very different things-- namely, "health care" and "medical care." Medical care is a limited part of health care. What we do and don't do in the way we live our lives affects our health and our longevity, in many cases more so than what doctors can do to provide medical care."

The medical care someone received in an emergency is a very small aspect of health care as it relates to the current debate about control over our lives. Those interested can find the column at Townhall.com under columnists and his column of the 4th. It's nice (well, not nice that it took someone having a heart attack) to have such a concrete example of someone making this type of misleading argument, proving the point Sowell just made days ago.

When you start making up nu... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

When you start making up numbers it's called LYING. I suppose the Democrats prefer "nuance".

Ignorance, or Intentional D... (Below threshold)
Matt:

Ignorance, or Intentional Deception?

BOTH!!

How could this peaceful, la... (Below threshold)

How could this peaceful, largely jovial crowd (who must have been tired, since they journeyed from many far away places in buses - hardly luxurious travel) have been characterized in any other way but what they were - honest American citizens exercising their First Amendment rights? I don't get the willful ignorance and mischaracterizations being practiced by some in the elite media.

"columnist Dana Milbank ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

"columnist Dana Milbank played the usual game of quoting the wackiest signs and smearing thousands of people with them."

The media always did that during the anti-war rallies that featured hundreds of thousands of people. Quick! Find some token anarchist fuckwits and seek to delegitimize the entire crowd by virtue of their existence! So if you're surprised by how they demonize 'tea party' rallies, or whatever these events are called now, by focusing on the fringe idiots among the crowd, then you obviously were not watching television or reading Time/Newsweek/Washington Post from 2002 to Katrina, when it became fashionable among the ruling elites to hate neoconservative failures.

The media in your country is a straight-up travesty. They fetishize 'bipartisanship', misunderstand or despise the grassroots, and the sum total of their collective careers could be described as a ginormous corporatist circle-jerk. Consider their infatuation with John McCain, President Olympia Snowe, Ben Nelson, and Joe Lieberman: pissing off one's own political party gives the Howard Kurtz Kidz all kinds of boners. I have more respect for Loony Tunes Beck than I do for Candy Crowley et al because at least he clearly doesn't give a shit what David Broder thinks.

I have a technical request.... (Below threshold)
wolfwalker:

I have a technical request. Would you PLEASE learn how to re-size images for the Web before posting them here? This post contains five photos of 8MP each. That takes a lot of time to download even on a fiber connection; on slow DSL or dial-up, it's an eternity. Reduce them to, oh, 800x600 pixels before posting, and they'll load in a flash.

Holy Crap! Welcome back Hyp... (Below threshold)
JustRuss IT1(SW) USN [reitred]:

Holy Crap! Welcome back Hyper and oh my goodness you hit it on the head with that post! Our country is most difinitely screwed up especially the media and the elite in both entertainment and government.

"The media in your count... (Below threshold)
HughS:

"The media in your country is a straight-up travesty. They fetishize 'bipartisanship', misunderstand or despise the grassroots, and the sum total of their collective careers could be described as a ginormous corporatist circle-jerk."

Well said.

Wolfwalker,I apologi... (Below threshold)
Lorie:

Wolfwalker,
I apologize. I do know how to resize, but tried first w/o resizing and it came up fine on my computer (no delay and everything looked great). I didn't consider that it might not be the same on everyone else's. I'll resize them and swap out for the ones posted.

Sean Hannity lied and state... (Below threshold)
Steve Green:

Sean Hannity lied and stated that there 20,000 people attending the rally.

Hannity: "20,000 people showed up today." During the November 5 edition of ABC Radio Network's The Sean Hannity Show, Hannity stated, "We announced on Hannity Friday night on the Fox News Channel, we had Congresswoman Michele Bachmann [R-MN] on, and she mentioned that there was going to be on Thursday, she was going to put together in less than a week a little town hall on -- what do you want to call it -- march on our nation's Capitol. And anyway, 20,000 people showed up today."

Hannity: "[W]hat, 20,000 people showed up today." Hannity subsequently stated, "That was Jon Voight, the actor, who on his own heard -- I guess was watching Hannity last Friday -- and heard Congresswoman Michele Bachmann announce that she was going to have this rally today in preparation for what we expect to be a vote on a rare Saturday edition of Congress, and, what, 20,000 people showed up today."

Then he backtracked and scaled his lie down to 5,000.

Hannity: "I heard there was, like, 5,000 people plus there." Toward the end of his radio show, Hannity backtracked from his earlier estimates, responding to a caller's statement that "there was more than 1,000 people here," by stating, "I heard there was, like, 5,000 people plus there."

Capitol police estimate it was 4,000.

Three Capitol Hill police officers all guessed that the crowd numbered at about 4,000. (Here's a wide shot picture of the crowd.)

4,000 is a lot like 20,000 - if you're in the business of reporting lies.

Comparing health care reform to the Holocaust was an especially tasteful move.

I just hope that these rall... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

I just hope that these rallies and tea parties just keep climbing in intensity until the media has no choice but to cover them. I think for the most part people have to know how out of the way the networks are going to not cover these rallies, or to cast a negative light on them.

the double standard, as usual, is glaring.

the intent, as usual, is obvious.

can we officially declare these people as an extension of the democrat party? can we make the DNC have to declare the hours and dollars spent to prop their candidates up? If conservatives had the numerous news outlets and platforms from which to cover such activities, it would be all over for the democrats. fortunately it seems the tide is turning, slowly but surely.

Fox News mireports the size... (Below threshold)
Steve Green:

Fox News mireports the size of the protest and then Republicans capitalize on the lie to rally people to their side.

Congressman Steve King today made the following statement calling on American citizens to come to Washington this weekend to stop a government takeover of health care.

"Nancy Pelosi and Washington liberals cannot ignore what transpired yesterday in Washington. Americans from every state stormed Capitol Hill. They took over the Hill. And they loudly chanted 'Kill this bill!'

Given the actual size of the crowd "they took over the parking lot of a local grocery store" is more accurate.

But let's not suggest that Fox News and the GOP are in cohoots.

Green Steve, I saw video on... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Green Steve, I saw video on tv which showed he crowd. If that was not a much larger number than 4k, you are intelligent, and we both know that is not true. Hey Steve, since you are so good at numbers, guess how many fingers I am hold up. Now guess which.

Leave it to Stevie. Don't ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Leave it to Stevie. Don't say anything about the protest or why it's happening. Let's all debate the size of the parking lot.

Real good Stevie. You get a pat on the head from Axelrod for that one?

Dana Milbank gets paid a lo... (Below threshold)
klrtz1:

Dana Milbank gets paid a lot more than Steve Green to do the same things: Lie, distort, spin and distract. Who is fooled?

I don't about where you liv... (Below threshold)
ac:

I don't about where you live Steverino but some of the parking lots in my hometown are pretty damn big.

s green - "Comparing h... (Below threshold)
Marc:

s green - "Comparing health care reform to the Holocaust was an especially tasteful move."

Let me correct that fer ya: It was a "especially distasteful move."

That said, real cute how you are sucking the hind teat of Think[less] Progress by noting in all liklihood the ONLY sign of that type at the rally.

And BTW, next time stay on topic, or at least comment on the post itself instead of divertiung attention, AND point where and when you condemned all the Bush-Hitler refs in the last 8 years.

Until then STFU

I have to correct the recor... (Below threshold)
Lorie:

I have to correct the record here because the picture that Steve Green links above is NOT of the full crowd that attended the rally.

It does not show the crowd in front of the Capitol facing the steps/stage. If it was taken during the rally it is of overflow that are on the street (notice the absence of grass under their feet). The picture he links appears to be a picture of a smaller group of people coming from the rally. I was there. Anyone who was there, or anyone who knows what the area looks like or anyone who knows what grass looks like, would know this.

The picture appears to be of a group of people heading toward the Cannon Building to visit the representatives' offices. If you look at the picture I posted (the one that came from Andrea Shea King) you might notice the similarity. Andrea described her picture as a "photo taken from the steps of the Cannon House Office Building of concerned Americans making their way from the rally to call on Pelosi."

The group she took a picture of was just one part of the larger group that split up and flooded the various entrances to the Cannon and other office buildings. When I left the rally yesterday I walked first toward the Cannon Building, but when I saw the throngs of people already lined up and down the street trying to get in realized I did not want to stand in line for an hour so I hung out a while on the grass talking to friends and strangers and taking pictures. Then we started walking up the hill. Each entrance was just as packed with people so we kept walking. I decided to make a visit to the RNC a few blocks up and wait until the lines were not so long. I came back a couple of hours later and was able to get into the building with only a short line, but found the halls were still pretty full of people, especially outside the offices where the representatives actually decided to check in.

I don't know how many people were there total, but thought it was a great turnout considering the very short notice and I know that the picture Steve linked as supposedly a "wide shot picture of the crowd" is actually a picture of a segment of the crowd in front of one building. It appears to me to have been taken after the rally, but I can't say for sure. If that is the case then there were additional groups of people up and down those couple of blocks, as well as some people who were probably still making their way from the Capitol lawn.

To try to claim that picture showed the number of people in attendance at the rally is beyond misleading. Steve blockquoted the Hannity stuff which included the MSNBC picture link, but didn't identify where it was quoted from. Who is trying to pass off that picture as one showing the full rally crowd? (Besides Steve, I mean.) That would be interesting to know. So, Steve, where did that come from?

Lorie I wouldn't worry abou... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Lorie I wouldn't worry about Steve's juvenile rants. Never on point and seldom truthful. He is the kind of boy that equates making love to size of tools. Just no correlation.

Now is Steve does want to talk about liars: I will pull out of Iraq. I will support the good war in Afghanistan. I will not allow lobbyist to serve in my adminsitration. I will now sign a bill loaded with earmarks. If we don't pass this stimulus, unemployment will reach 8%. I will have the most transparent administration. I will close Gitmo in one year. All Obama's lies. All real. I could list more but my fingers are tired. So Stevie, is Obama a liar? Or is Hannity? ww

Much better now, Lorie. Th... (Below threshold)
wolfwalker:

Much better now, Lorie. Thank you.

I love wordsmiths like Lori... (Below threshold)
apb:

I love wordsmiths like Lorie that can create a logical picture of why Greenie's wrong.

I prefer my corporate simplicity though - Greenie's a fuck-wit that argues numbers with no comprehension of what they truly mean - kind of like a dog trying to figure out calculus. You could almost picture his little furrowed brow!

I walked around the fringes... (Below threshold)
rtw:

I walked around the fringes of the rally yesterday and left about 1:15 pm or so. I never got close enough to see the speakers or even to determine exactly where the stage was. As I was walking away, I came to some elevated ground near the reflecting pool, turned around and spent several minutes trying to estimate the crowd size. The figure I came up with was 8,000 to 15,000, depending on how far the crowd extended to the right (towards the south) where I couldn't see.

"As I was walking away, I c... (Below threshold)
914:

"As I was walking away, I came to some elevated ground near the reflecting pool, turned around and spent several minutes trying to estimate the crowd size. The figure I came up with was 8,000 to 15,000, depending on how far the crowd extended to the right (towards the south) where I couldn't see."

Good estimate. I think Your a little on the low side but than again I was not there. Im just doing what the media does and making stuff up.

To Steven F Green-

"And BTW, next time stay on topic, or at least comment on the post itself instead of diverting attention"

Thats not His M.O.... He drops in, starts to drool , starts to quiver, than returns to His circlejerk. Or maybe He never left?

Glad you were able to atten... (Below threshold)

Glad you were able to attend the rally. Thanks for the great write-up and pics. Take tomorrow off--sleep in!

When you start mak... (Below threshold)
Steve Green:
When you start making up numbers it's called LYING. I suppose the Democrats prefer "nuance".

3. Posted by GarandFan | November 6, 2009 3:49 PM

Apparently showing the extent to which Hannity lied about the turnout went WAAAAY over the heads of a lot of people here.

Byrd: "I don't know how many people were there total, but thought it was a great turnout considering the very short notice..."

From Bachmann's November 2 press release calling "on the American People to Bring the Town Hall to Washington":

"This bill is a trillion-dollar, budget-busting, government takeover of our health care system. It will put bureaucrats between people and their health care. It will lead to rationed care, hurting the most vulnerable amongst us first. It will break the bank, leaving our children to pay the bill with diminished freedoms and dwindling prosperity.

"The American people need to stand up again and make sure that Congress hears them this time. Speaker Pelosi is putting her bill on fast track to a vote - and it remains to be seen if the House will even get a chance to vote on the commonsense Republican alternatives. The people need to make a House Call on Washington this week and tell their Representatives to vote no to a government take-over of one-fifth of our economy. This is gangster government at its worst.

"I urge all Americans to come to Washington this Thursday. Come and meet up with your Representative and tell them that you want to control your health care

Fox News was all over this, promoting the event for days.

Fox News' Napolitano: Bachmann "wants your help in the fight." Guest hosting for Glenn Beck on November 4, Fox News judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano stated that Bachmann is "fighting Democrats on the constitutionality..."

Bachman: "[W]e began this on Sean Hannity's show." Also during the November 4 Glenn Beck broadcast, Bachman further detailed her motivations to organize the protest, saying, "what we've done, and we began this on Sean Hannity's show, is just to - the only thing I know to do at this point to kill this bill is to ask and plead for real freedom-loving Americans to come to the steps of the US Capitol tomorrow."

Hannity was "told the crowd is going to be massive ... my only wish is I wish I could be there." Hannity stated on the November 4 edition of his Fox News program, "Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann announced on this program last Friday that at noon tomorrow... - "

Fox News contributor Gingrich pushes protest on twitter. On November 3 Newt Gingrich posted on his twitter feed, "Help stop the gov't take-over of health care. Join the Rally Thursday against Obama/PelosiCare." Gingrich also posted a "Reminder" about the protest on November 4.

Fox & Friends hosted Bachmann, promoted protest details. During the November 3 edition of Fox & Friends, co-host Gretchen Carlson hosted Bachmann to talk about the protest, gave details of the protest to viewers, and urged viewers to access the program's website for more information on the protest. Carlson stated, "They can go to FoxandFriends.com; we'll link it to your website."

The movement organizers want people to believe that the low turnout was the result of a late announcement. Not true - the low turnout is despite the heavy promotion on Fox News and elsewhere.

Byrd: "I just noticed that I didn't explicitly explain the title of this post, but it is a reference to the intent of those on the left and in the media who have portrayed the tea parties and rallies like the one I attended yesterday as nasty, negative and hate-filled. I don't know if they do so out of ignorance because they have not attended, or because they are determined to intentionally mislead people, but I would encourage anyone who has not been to one of these events to attend and to decide for themselves.

I agree. I think protest is a noble expression of patriotism and encourage anyone to attend protests such as these. I hope my protest of the way in which the size of the crowd has been misreported is seen as my expression of patriotism, but sadly -- we all know that won't be the case.

Steve, Do you ever post any... (Below threshold)
914:

Steve, Do you ever post anything that gets a positive vote? Dont answer.

"I hope my protest of the way in which the size of the crowd has been misreported is seen as my expression of patriotism, but sadly -- we all know that won't be the case."


Misreported? How the hell do You know? You there? Your encouragement lacks sincerety as does Your judgement.

Puhleeze, Steve. You want ... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Puhleeze, Steve. You want a pat on the back for being a patriot for spending all this time and space arguing about whether there were 4,000 or 10,000 or 20,000 people there? Or do you want it for linking a picture supposedly showing the size of the crowd that only showed a tiny fragment of the people in attendance and didn't even show them at the site of the rally? In case I missed it in your most recent comment, did you answer my question about where that link came from? I was able to find the Hannity quotes at Media Matters, but not the link to the picture. I really want to know because that is one of the most misleading things I've seen today.

Not the craziest thing though considering Robert Gibbs' comment about Hitler signs and Obama's "pet goat" moment (which beats Bush's by a mile).

Steve you are dead wrong about the late notice being an excuse for anything, but it should help you to understand why the turnout was so impressive. You might not realize this because you may be more accustomed to liberal rallies, but at conservative rallies most of the attendees have jobs or stay home with their kids.

So, no matter how many times Hannity or Beck or Fox or Rush or Levin or whoever mentioned the rally on air is a moot point. They could have run a non-stop 24/7 loop inviting people to come, but the fact is that 5 days notice is still just 5 days notice. That so many people could get off of work on such short notice, or make arrangements for child care if necessary, or cancel appointments, etc. to travel to DC to attend is very impressive.

It is not just the size of the crowd though, but the intensity of the participants. Andrea Shea King and a couple of her friends left Florida Wednesday evening and drove all night to get there, then turned around and drove back afterward. I met people who had traveled from Ohio and Michigan and North Carolina and South Carolina, Tennessee and Pennsylvania also.

Not only was the crowd impressive considering the short notice, but considering how crappy the economy is. It costs money to drive or fly to DC. If you spend the night you are talking more money. Not to mention parking or cab fare and money to eat while there.

Ask anyone who works for someone in congress. Are they more impressed by 100,000 calls and emails or by 5,000 people who travel in person to their office in DC? The answer should be obvious.

This is all common sense stuff though. That it is harder to get to a rally with 5 days notice than with 14 or 30 is a no brainer.

I guess the libs do have a point though. Since Fox television and Hannity and Beck and Rush and Levin on the radio told people about the event, a lot of people did know about it. That would not have been the case if it had been promoted on MSNBC or Air America. The liberals got that much right.

Lorie, you forgot to mentio... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

Lorie, you forgot to mention: Medical personnel from the Capitol physician's office -- an entity that could, quite accurately, be labeled government-run health care -- rushed over, attaching electrodes to his chest and giving him oxygen and an IV drip. By the time it was over, medics had administered government-run health care to at least five people in the crowd who were stricken as they denounced government-run health care. As far as I can tell, neither the conservative lawmakers or the far-right protestors actually voiced opposition to the government health care services, or called on the elimination of the Capitol physician's office. Government-run health care -- the scourge the Republicans assembled to denounce -- may be poised to contribute to the end of Western civilization, but it can also apparently be pretty helpful and effective.

Probably just an over looked thing that didn't matter, right?

Mr.Green, Unless you... (Below threshold)

Mr.Green,
Unless you personally were there, your calling
others liars is like living in a glass house and throwing rocks.
That is not patriotism.

Yes Steve, you're truly a p... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

Yes Steve, you're truly a patriot in the mold of Patrick Henry, Joshua Chamberlain, and Nick Roe.

We salute your sacrifice and patriotism.

Byrd: "Puhleeze, Steve. ... (Below threshold)
Steve Green:

Byrd: "Puhleeze, Steve. You want a pat on the back for being a patriot for spending all this time and space arguing about whether there were 4,000 or 10,000 or 20,000 people there?"

No, I didn't ask for a pat on the back. I merely pointed out that protest takes many forms, and I applaud patriotic protest, as it seems you do as well.

I just find it odd that there is such a body of misreporting around the latest failure of the tea party movement. Bachman and Fox News tried to rally the troops, and failed miserably.

As an aside, NY-23 also showed that the social conservative "tea party" movement has sputtered dramatically and does not have the 'sway' its leaders want you to believe it has.

And now the Bachman protest is another example of that.

Reality aside, for Fox News to over report on the size of the crowd by a factor of 500% is a gross bit of... well, lying. It's just that simple.

I thought someone who wrote the headline "Ignorance or Intentional Deception?" would welcome a discussion that actually addressed the topic suggested by that headline.

JC, That is one of t... (Below threshold)

JC,
That is one of the most despicable comments
you've made at Wizbang.
A time of extreme emergency, and you politicize
it?
Why don't you just fall on your sword...

Steve Green, Apparen... (Below threshold)

Steve Green,
Apparently you were not there. Yet you continue
to call those who attended liars.
If you think being insidious with your play on
words will fix that, you're mistaken.
If you think calling those who made the effort
to attend and protest as losers, you're also wrong on that point.
It ain't over yet bub.

I would love to meet the pe... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I would love to meet the people who vote down comments like the original one I posted a few days ago. I would ask them what Fred Hiatt's foreskin tastes like, and seek clarification on what parts of the mainstream American news media's conceptual ass-play they are most fond of. And then I would call them a fucking idiot to their face and suggest that they move to Iran, where the medium of political communications would better fit their values.

Fine. Watch your civilization go down in flames while you politicize the informational failing of your nation's news media, you tiny little cowards.
depp=true
notiz=You are way over the line,

Sorry, I promise never to u... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Sorry, I promise never to use the word foreskin again.

The verdict is in - it was ... (Below threshold)
Steve Green:

The verdict is in - it was intentional deception on the part of the right wing Fox News organization in misreporting the size of the crowd.

Hannity has been caught and outed as a liar.

He since has admitted they used the wrong footage, but so far he has refused to address the lie about the size of the crowd.

"My friend Zan and I met up... (Below threshold)
dan ehl:

"My friend Zan and I met up with Dan ehl and Mary Katharine Ham after the rally and we talked about how positive and peaceful the event had been."

Yikes, that must have been some beer binge I was on that day. I don't even remember being there. I must have thought I was at a pro-nationalized health care plan.

Dan Ehl




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