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Understanding The New York Trials

I've been trying to wrap my head around the whole decision by the Obama administration to bring the accused 9/11 terrorists from Guantanamo Bay to New York City for civilian trials, and it's been a challenge. All the arguments being tossed back and forth made a modicum of sense, but none of them seemed sufficient to explain the whole situation. Finally, though, a chain of notions tied itself together in my mind that seems to explain the whole thing.

You first have to start off with the old truism that "conservatives think liberals are stupid; liberals think conservatives are evil."

With that in mind, the Obama administration's actions suddenly make perfect sense.

To them, the trial of the accused terrorists is merely a means to an end. And that end is, to them, a greater justice that must be served.

Some critics are asking questions like "what if they are not convicted?" What would happen if a jury finds -- for whatever reason, such as mistreatment of the defendants at the hands of the government during their years of pre-trial detention -- that to convict them would be unjust?

That doesn't matter. The Obama administration is convinced that the fix is in. The conviction is a foregone conclusion to them; they simply can't envision anything else happening. (As others have noted, these are the same people who couldn't conceive of Chicago NOT winning the Olympics, or of the Democrats NOT winning the recent gubernatorial elections in Virginia and New Jersey -- but we're not dealing with reality here, but the Obama administration's perceptions.)

So the conviction is in the bag. This is when the spirit of Rahm Emanuel raises its baleful head and repeats the mantra "never let a crisis go to waste." Since there's going to be a trial anyway, and the outcome is already gonna happen, what else can get get from it? What other benefit can we reap from this trial? What other enemies -- besides these all-but-convicted-and-executed terrorists -- can we pummel with this?

Why, of course, the Bush administration and the CIA.

The treatment of the detainees -- already characterized by Obama and his flunkies as "torture" -- is almost certainly going to be raised by the terrorists' defense attorneys. ("Almost" because the impossible can always happen.)

Here's how I see it playing out: the defense raises the "torture" argument. Obama's Justice Department objects, just strenuously enough to get the whole issue argued before the judge and the press (if not the jury). This gets all the gory, lurid details out in the public, and demonstrates once and for all what evil, malicious, hideous, inhuman monsters Bush, Cheney, and all their supporters are once and for all.

In the end, all the evidence gathered by the "enhanced interrogations" will be set aside and the trials will continue towards their predestined guilty verdicts. And then the real fun begins -- all that currently-confidential information is now not only public, not only part of the official legal record, but the Obama administration can claim to have resisted its release and only did so in compliance with the law. At that point, more legal action -- civil and, possibly, criminal -- can be brought against Bush-era officials, bringing more discredit on the Republican party in general -- just in time for the 2010 or 2012 elections.

Which, of course, is the main focus on an administration that viewed the days between last November's election and this past January 20 as a vacation between campaigns, and has yet to figure out when -- or how -- to start governing.

Naturally, there is no guarantee that it will play out according to their plans. So far, their record of actually achieving what they set out to do is incredibly poor. That doesn't even begin to slow them down, of course, but gosh darn it they'll certainly try -- and make no plans for things not going precisely as they planned.

Again, this is just my interpretation of how the Obama administration perceives the current situation. It is consistent with their past conduct, their actions to this point, and their stated goals and beliefs.

Is it accurate? I dunno. I just know that it's consistent with what they've done before, have been saying all along, and with what they've done at every step in the current process.

(Author's note: half an hour after finishing this, I found out that others have been coming to pretty much the same conclusion... I guess the Obamoids do know their base pretty well.)


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Comments (34)

Well, we've got government ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Well, we've got government of the lawyers, by the lawyers, for the lawyers.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

Nailed it. That's precisel... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Nailed it. That's precisely why the trials are being held. Barry and Company believe they'll get a twofer out of it. Convictions and pillorying the Bush administration. Of course all the lurid details coming out MAY work against them. In which case they can kill 2012 goodbye.

As long as we can get the v... (Below threshold)
Rick Caird:

As long as we can get the videos of the towers coming down and the "jumpers" falling back into the public's outrage, it is hard to see how the Obama plot will work.

This is just about all downside for the administration. The Rahm "tin ear" continues to lead.

Rick

On another note, it's odd t... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

On another note, it's odd that Obama has said previously that he would not release anyone who posed a danger to American citizens. Holder stated the same during his press conference. If this is so, then either the Chicago "fix" is in for a guilty verdict, or this is just a 'show trial', with KSM going back to prison after an acquittal. Hmmmm.....what other countries have also held 'show trials'?

I think you hit the nail sq... (Below threshold)
Patrick:

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. In my opinion though I am pretty sure that things are not going to work out as they hoped. For the Obama Administration to say that they won't let these cretins go even if they are acquitted hardly seems to give them the moral high ground they are trying to claim and it amazes me that the left can be so intellectually dishonest about what Obama and Holder are trying to do here.

What this indicates to me is that they are keeping their eyes on the prize and that is the potential prosecution of Bush Administration officials because they really don't care what happens to KSM or the others. They would rather let these people go if they can ensnare high level members of the prior administration. They also don't care about revealing valuable intelligence information either. In the end I think this will end badly for a lot of innocent American citizens but who cares about that when there is a potential opportunity to blame Bush again?

So, the Democrats and their... (Below threshold)
davidt:

So, the Democrats and their 'news' media cohorts are planning to use the 'torture' of the 911 mastermind as a campaign tool, the way they used the 'scandals' in the 2006, 2008 campaigns.

It worked then, it may again.

I think you're pretty spot ... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

I think you're pretty spot on there, Jay. I've been wondering about how the torture/state secret angle would come into play. Obama has already displayed a meek objection to investigating individuals involved in the interrogation techniques (as if he had no say in the matter). So we have that past behavior to go with.

This administration has consistently ignored any repercussions to their actions because it's been infinitly more important to them to demonize certain individuals or groups regardless of what damage is wrought in the process. The agenda must be advanced at all costs.

The ACLU has been clamoring... (Below threshold)
Stan25:

The ACLU has been clamoring for this type of trial from the very beginning. The reason why someone ask? To put some of their unemployed lawyers to work. Plain and simple. They can't get enough out of their suits against religion (Christmas being the main one), so they need to branch out to other endeavors. Hell this case maybe a ticket to the big time. Maybe even a place in the Obama Justice Department.

I think you have missed the... (Below threshold)
David:

I think you have missed the basic arguement here: The Obama Administration does not view terrorism as something to be fought as in a "war", and is therefore to be tried in a civilian court, with civilian judges, attorneys and "legal arguements". The liberals view terrorists is in the liberal/vein of thought, that all people are really good and all violent Moslems are really good and KSM is also really a good person, and therefore should be tried in a regular court of law instead of a military (i.e. war) court, just as any thief that steals gets tried in a court of law in NYC.

It is precisely this way of thinking that allows the terrorists to forment more terrorism, takes the CIA's eyes and ears off the terrorists since they are really not so bad, and allows terrorism to forment in our country by home-grown terrorists (aided by their masters in foreign countries). And for the same reason the government cant spy on telephone calls of terrorists just as they would not listen in to the private conversations of some plain car thiefs! And hey, why torture these terroriss to get important information from them more than you would torture your bad teenager that steals a couple of Dollars from the groccery store? And the people that run these anti-tererorist programs (like the CIA and NSA special units) they are really the bad ones for targeting the terrorist organisations for no "real" reason. And why not negotiate with terrorist mass-murderer's since they really great people? And the list goes on and on.

And its precisely this left wing view of the terrorists that 9/11 turned upside down, 9/11 showed that the the terrorists are out to kill us all out if only they could and only a military solution in a way of a war can stop this enemy that knows no stoping, and as evidenced by the "war on terrorism" conducted by the Bush-Cheney administration (and Thank God for that, and they have saved many lives with that), but the Obama administration by suspending the war on terror and talking with arch-terrorist leader Iran, seems to be turning this arguement upside down.

This post has so much truth... (Below threshold)
Madalyn:

This post has so much truth to it. Obama and friends could care less about the American people as evidenced by the lies he has told since his campaign started. He is so jealous of Bush and can't wait to try and up "Evil Bush" and it is more important than safeguarding hundreds of thousands of American lives. Evil really lurks in the minds and personalities of the current administration. By dissing the Ft. Hood terrorist attack, Obama wants to claim no terrorist attack took place on his watch. His admin is guilty of terrorism against the American people.
Can't wait to see this imbicile impeached, voted out of office, etc.
Madalyn

I don't think Obama would l... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

I don't think Obama would lose one minute of sleep if KSM happened to be acquitted. This whole administration is one macabre dark magic show that requires - as Oyster writes - the demonization of others as distractions while they enact the statist agenda. If KSM gets off they will blame the Bush administration for their lack of restraint and civilized behavior in dealing with these terrorists. I now believe Obama at his core is a Muslim, period. He gives his first formal interview after being inaugurated on Al-Arabiya. He covers the Latin name of Jesus at Georgetown when he gives a speech. He moves the trial of KSM from a military to a civil venue where he still stands at least a scintilla of a chance of getting an acquittal despite his guilty plea. Moreover he shows no interest in trying to get to the bottom of why a rather blatant jihadist got the opportunity to murder soldiers under his watch as CIC.

Ah, but in an American tria... (Below threshold)
RicardoVerde:

Ah, but in an American trial doesn't showing that the prosecution tortures get you set free (even if it was the previous prosecutor)? If that is the case and they then throw KSM back in the hole won't everyone say that the US criminal system is a sham? If they find KSM innocent and set him free it seems that Obama better find a quick flight to Indonesia. Knowingly endangering the lives of US citizens for political gain pretty well fits the definition of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Nothing good will come of this trial for the US or Obama.

I believe that the public w... (Below threshold)
Trump:

I believe that the public will hear about how this monster was "tortured" and waterboarded etc.....and instead of being outraged, the collective public response will range from "good, he deserved it" to "should've executed him on the spot"

Because now they put a face to it. This isn't just some academic discussion of hypotheticals and morals- this is the subhuman monster that planned the murders of 3000 people.

This is an epic fail for Obama in the making. And god help him if KSM gets off....

When the KSM trials are sti... (Below threshold)
Neo:

When the KSM trials are still going on or are on appeal while Obama is running for reelection, he will regret this whole thing and blame Bush.

A similar conversation is t... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

A similar conversation is taking place in the comments section of my KSM post. My response there is in line with those above. I don't see how reminding America of how they felt on 9/11, how Bush responded to it, or even of Bush's treatment of KSM and other terrorists can do anything but help Republicans in 2010 and 2012.

The full response is here:

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/11/17/will-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-call-charlie-sheen-as-a-witness-1.php#comment-960767

It's worth observing that O... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

It's worth observing that Obama, the Kossacks, and the rest of the "reality-based community" are actually based in some alternate reality.

No doubt Obama, Emanuel, and Holder really believe they can score some political points both at home and abroad with these "show trials." I suspect Stalin and Beria felt exactly the same way about theirs.

I wonder how New Yorkers will feel about their liberal Messiah after traffic is tied up in the city by trial security for a year or more?

Obama/Holder can't risk rel... (Below threshold)

Obama/Holder can't risk releasing the documents that would allow Cheney/Bush to defend themselves. So what to do? They allow KSM's lawyers to throw the mud and place themselves in the position of defending Cheney/Bush... poorly. That way they can allow the circus to do maximum damage to Bush/Cheney who are barred from defending themselves.

Next up... Katrina investigations!

Amateur hour continues....<... (Below threshold)
Hank:

Amateur hour continues....

This is going to further divide the country.

It increases the risks of another terrorist attack in NY city and elsewhere.

Lives will be lost as they were when muslims rioted over (cartoons, Miss World Pageant, non-existent Koran desecration, etc).

We're getting closer and closer to becoming a banana republic. Massive deficits and out of control borrowing weren't enough, nor was trying to control/attack some media outlets, Now we'll criminalize previous political policies.

They're all blinded by political enmity.

John Yoo said torture was l... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

John Yoo said torture was legal, and VP Cheney agreed with him, so I don't think the torture claim will go far in court. And if that claim is upheld in court, man that opens a big can of worms for the present admin, because then they will, by law, have to bring charges against the previous admin, and that's not going to happen.

The Manhattan trials are a ... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

The Manhattan trials are a necessary expedient to wrest control of the court dockets from the Orwellian fear mongers of the past administration. Or were the Bushites just prone to malinguer over these cases? Going on 8 years, we would have bourbon for Christmas. But instead of booze, we have a blank history page, per President Cheney's preference, I'm sure.
Reason enough to open windows, even if Cheney escapes in bat form.

As for "why diss the military system?"
The military is not equipped for complications impingining on political prerogatives. No problem during the Bush administration, but the reverse now. (Again, WHY didn't Bush settle earlier, again? I keep forgetting...)
And "complications", you ask? Not all captives were from "the field", AND (Bush-Cheney again) Geneva Conventions protections were violated and then retroactively lifted. The US military wants NO part in this blatant and wormy civilian chickenhawkery dreamt up by neocon "scholars" from tax-exempt "think tanks". If there were a draft, the issue might require more subtlety. As it lays, there are fat permanent post-grad students (median age 32) who served Cheney and who Cheney feels should not be pressured. Lest they crack.

As for opening new investigations regarding policies, those have already begun. So far below the radar that it puts lie to the supposed anti-Bushism in the media. Anyway, Cheney's Failure To Recall x72 was a humourous Floater from a man suddenly un-proud. If he were before a firing squad, not only would Cheney not NOT refuse a blindfold, he would request a full mummy wrap.

Here is the dream I have of... (Below threshold)

Here is the dream I have of the courtroom

Judge: Have the defendants been read their rights prior to arrest?

Lawyer: No your honor, they have not.

Judge: Then we have no reason to have a trial. Baliff, lead the defendants out of the courthouse and into the street and set them free.

Oddly, minutes later, in a city of millions, there are no eyewitnesses to the deaths of these terrorists.

Nice to see that bryanD is ... (Below threshold)
Staylor:

Nice to see that bryanD is back with his usual incomprhensible rants; all the excess sanity o these boards as driving me nuts.

As for the topic at hand I am little more concerned about other precedents being set by the KSM civil trial. Unlike others I am not at all afraid that KSM will walk, in fact I am confident that he will get convicted. The political consequences for the Dems if KSM walks on a technicallity would be too great for even Obama to consider risking. Instead I am confident that the fix is in and that KSM will get convicted for his crimes and it will be used as proof of the Dems effectivness in terrorism for years to come.
What I am afraid of is that in pursuit of these convictions judicial precedent that protect the American people will have to be overturned. We all no the litany of incidents and procedures connected with the KSM case that do not pass consititutional muster. This did not matter when he was in the military tribunal system where enemy combatants are not expected to be mirandized, or have an unbroken chain of evidence, or have access to the intelligence methods used to track and capture them. In order for there to be a conviction of KSM the ruleing judge is going to have to ignore all of these descrepensies ranginf from the lack of a speedy and fair trial to the lack of warrent. Decades of judicial precedent and major constitutional protections will have to be ignored to put KSM away; and they will be.
What is scary is that the precedents set in this trial can then theoretically be used on regular American citizens.
"Violation of Sixth Amendment rights? No problem USA vs. KSM set precedent saying that is Ok."
"Broken chain of evidence? No problem USA vs. KSM set precedent saying that is Ok."
etc..
The corallary of treating a terrorist like a US citizen is that it then becomes OK to treat a US citizen like a terrorist. Which may of course be the whole point.

bryanD off his meds again.<... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

bryanD off his meds again.

jc hammer "And if that... (Below threshold)
Marc:

jc hammer "And if that claim is upheld in court, man that opens a big can of worms for the present admin, because then they will, by law, have to bring charges against the previous admin, and that's not going to happen."

obamalama will also have to explain why he's continued the Rendition Program and prove beyond a shadow of doubt those countries terrorists are being sent aren't using torture.

Lotsa luck with that.

Jay declares, "This gets al... (Below threshold)
Highlander:

Jay declares, "This gets all the gory, lurid details out in the public, and demonstrates once and for all what evil, malicious, hideous, inhuman monsters Bush, Cheney, and all their supporters are once and for all."

Two points:

1. Jay, you left off the adjectives, "stupid" and "incompetent."
2. All that's already been demonstrated.

bryanD off his meds again.<... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

bryanD off his meds again.
23. Posted by GarandFan

Hey, the previous author (Lorie B) is imagining Charlie Sheen as Lamont Cranston, wealthy man about town.

In the feature presentation before that one, Jay Tea is reliving the "Johnny Cakes" story arc from The Sopranos. Only in his version Vito turns the tables or something, from his power base in the mountains where all the antique shops and B&Bs pay him protection money and no one gets hurt...

I REFUSE to be strong armed. I know The Shadow PERSONALLY. Plus Jay Tea doesn't like to travel anyway. Something about "vinyl car seats".

Interesting theory, bryanD,... (Below threshold)

Interesting theory, bryanD, only you got a few trivial details wrong.

1) I've never seen a single episode of the Sopranos. Not one.

B) I haven't owned a vehicle with vinyl seats in over two decades. Mongo's seats are nice, comfy cloth.

Give reality a try sometime, bryan. Your fantasies sound fascinating, but you can't live there forever...

J.

Does anyone know why this w... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Does anyone know why this won't get thrown out for a speedy trial violation?

As long as we can get th... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

As long as we can get the videos of the towers coming down and the "jumpers" falling back into the public's outrage, it is hard to see how the Obama plot will work.

And who's gonna run those videos? ABC? MSNBC? They've been virtually embargoing them for the past 9 years.

Maybe FOX might. Maybe.

Lives will be lost as th... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Lives will be lost as they were when muslims rioted over (cartoons, Miss World Pageant, non-existent Koran desecration, etc).

And you damn well know there will be CAIR nutjobs outside the court house protesting, along with counter-protests by enraged Americans. In NYC. Blocks away from Ground Zero. Which is STILL a hole in the ground.

It's gonna get REALLY REALLY ugly. I can feel it in my bones.

This will be Obama's LBJ-Vietnam powerkeg. (Hey, Hey, LBJ...)

As for the topic at hand... (Below threshold)
ken2:

As for the topic at hand I am little more concerned about other precedents being set by the KSM civil trial. ... What I am afraid of is that in pursuit of these convictions judicial precedent that protect the American people will have to be overturned. ... What is scary is that the precedents set in this trial can then theoretically be used on regular American citizens. #22. Posted by Staylor

I agree, the real danger is in any precedents being set that weaken our rights as citizens.

What I would like to know i... (Below threshold)
LatinainAmerica:

What I would like to know is how the government is going to protect the jurors and their families if they find them guilty. Those people will not be able to travel overseas and they will be in danger even here. Is the jury going to be "secret"? And the judge and the prosecutor too?

Excellent article.... (Below threshold)
dom youngross:

Excellent article.

In short, expect the duplicity angle previously pursued by the Obama administration (take on even more gaga federal debt because of Bush, bailout failed big corps because of Bush, traipse on in to no-win Afghanistan because of Bush, etc.) to be at play here with a civilian trial of KSM.

Duplicity -- no matter the cost and downside of such, you can spin it as a victory.

And if during a civilian KSM trial, terrorists strike again at another major metropolitan center OUTSIDE of NYC as surprise-surprise you thought we wuz goin to hit NYC directly again to make another body-count point ha-ha, the Obama admin can go deeper into full-Bush mode, like maybe martial law instead of just the 'Patriot' act.

BryanD, dude, you're wastin... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

BryanD, dude, you're wasting your time here. You need to get off the blogs and start writing science fiction. I'm tellin ya, man, that stuff sells.




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