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WTF?

I mean really:

The Department of Homeland Security has placed an order for 200 million rounds of pistol ammunition (.40 caliber, hollow-point) over the next five years for use by its Immigration, Customs and Enforcement division.

Let's see now, ICE has approximately 15,000 employees. Not all of them are licensed to carry firearms, but just to keep the math simple, we'll divide the whole shebang into 200 million. That works out to a little over 13,000 rounds per employee over five years, or approximately 2,600 per employee per year.

Now, in case the entire population of Mexico tries to cross the border over the next five years, this would be enough to shoot everybody twice; however, this event seems unlikely, and would represent a pretty harsh response, anyway.

Somebody, anybody, please explain.

Crossposted(*).


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Comments (35)

2,600 per employee per year... (Below threshold)
Wayne:

2,600 per employee per year doesn't seem unreasonable. Good training burns up a good deal of ammo.

Each employee is required t... (Below threshold)

Each employee is required to shoot 50 rounds per week, every week with no time off for vacations. That should make sure that they are trained in case the "right wing extremists" get active.

Do agencies always train wi... (Below threshold)

Do agencies always train with hollow-point ammo they carry. I know they have to run some of that that stuff through their pistols to ensure proper feeding and firing, but with jacketed ball ammo so much cheaper, this seems excessive.

It is probably a step towar... (Below threshold)
914:

It is probably a step towards being used on us conservatives that will revolt when ACORN attempts to fraudulate another election.

it would be interesting to ... (Below threshold)
ke_future:

it would be interesting to see how this order compares to previous federal orders for ammunition. i'm suspicious, but don't want to jump to any conclusions until more information is available.

Guess I gotta run out and b... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Guess I gotta run out and buy more ammo.

Gotta keep up with Napolitanos!

Maybe they know something w... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

Maybe they know something we don't ???

Could it be that there are regulations brewing that will make it more difficult to buy or manufacture ammo ? maybe some restrictions on hollow point ammo ?

my anti-gun radar is tingling ...

"Guess I gotta run out a... (Below threshold)
914:

"Guess I gotta run out and buy more ammo.

Gotta keep up with Napolitanos!"


No kiddin, You are'nt just whistlin dixie!

Maybe it's a new liberal ta... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Maybe it's a new liberal tactic. Ammo prices are high and availability is low. People are buying all they can get hold off. Rather than write new regulations to piss more people off, Barry and Company, with an unlimited Taxpayer Credit Card, have decided to buy up all the available supply.

Reminds me of when Nixon tried to prop up the $35/oz price of gold. The dumb ass released tons of gold from the US Treasury and people brought all they could......to re-sell it at even higher prices.

Wow, and none of you even j... (Below threshold)

Wow, and none of you even jumped to the idea that it might not be to keep people OUT? Wow. You don't have your tinfoil hats on tight enough.

More likely they'll need th... (Below threshold)
Saterp:

More likely they'll need those rounds to keep the population of the US in.

Once Obama gets rolling, there may be a strong desire to leave...

Let's see here, 200 million... (Below threshold)
Stan25:

Let's see here, 200 million rounds of hollow point ammo, rogue BATF agents and FBI agents? Sounds to me like the are about ready to take out some so-called domestic terrorists, namely tea party people, who have stymied the efforts of the Obama administration to pass cap and tax and the health care boondoggle. Makes one wonder where the next Waco will be and what excuse they will use to implement this attack.

silvermine ?are yo... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

silvermine ?

are you suggesting that we shoot people to keep them out ? sure sounds like it ...

the point is that given the small number of ICE employee's who use a weapon (

maybe it was a typo on the order and they meant to order 4 million rounds per year ...

at 10,000 shooters that would be 400 rounds per year ... seems more in line ...

I would have expected to se... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

I would have expected to see a large order for hundreds of thousands of new attorneys from the nation's liberal law schools.

These are criminal matters, aren't they? Ammunition should be unnecessary.

The .40 cal bullet is garba... (Below threshold)
serfer62:

The .40 cal bullet is garbage...no pentaration, no knockdown power. Great on a plane if you miss, worthless at stopping as assailent. But it is Politically Correct to the max.
.
A low velocity hollowpoint .45acp is the way to go for aircratft.

Off topic: Persona... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

Off topic:

Personally, if somebody can spare them, I could use a few rounds to shoot the lamebrained son of a bitch who blasts my eyeballs with obnoxious flashers and announces "Congratulations! You've WON!" every time I visit Wizbang.

Am I REALLY the 100,000th visitor to this page?

Some law enforcement agenci... (Below threshold)
CZ:

Some law enforcement agencies from local yocals to county mounties use .40 S&W as standard ammo for use in handguns as well as in full auto versions of the H&K MP5.

MP5'S hold 30 round mags that are able to firea single round or a three round burst to hold-the-trigger-down -empty-the-clip whoop ass. They burn up fast in training exercises.

There is economy in purchasing a large quantity as well as simplicity. Most departments will not permit ammo over one year old for active duty use so when the ammo nears the expiration date it gets shot up in training.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/mp5/choice/coang.htm

"Am I REALLY the 100,000th ... (Below threshold)
914:

"Am I REALLY the 100,000th visitor to this page"

No I am! Your 100,001..

These flashing banner ads certainly are annoying I agree.

On a good training day we ... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

On a good training day we would burn through t least 4 Clips of Ammo and we would qualify quarterly.

Not to mention days yu would practice before going to the range.

The thing that surprises me, is that they went with hallow points.

I thought good Liberals always wanted FMJ ball ammo.

Looks like the Max Number of Pistols they have will be 65K.


The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced the award of two contracts today for handguns for all organizational elements within the department, including U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the Transportation Security Administration, the U.S. Coast Guard and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.
SIGARMS Incorporated and Heckler & Koch, Incorporated each received a contract award with a maximum quantity of 65,000 pistols that may be purchased over the next five years. SIGARMS Incorporated, a small business located in Exeter, New Hampshire, received a $23.7 million contract for 9 x 19 mm and .40 caliber pistols. Heckler & Koch, a large business located in Sterling, Virginia, received a $26.2 million contract for 9 x 19 mm, .40, and .357 caliber pistols.

<a href="http://www.dhs.gov... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:
@... (Below threshold)

@bobdog:

Off topic:

Personally, if somebody can spare them, I could use a few rounds to shoot the lamebrained son of a bitch who blasts my eyeballs with obnoxious flashers and announces "Congratulations! You've WON!" every time I visit Wizbang.

Am I REALLY the 100,000th visitor to this page
Ad Muncher FTW. Been using it for years; one of the first apps I install when setting up a clean machine. Strips ad garbage out of the HTML itself, so you never even download 'em...

uhm...yer forgetting Canada... (Below threshold)
VagaBond:

uhm...yer forgetting Canada, eh?

Practice makes perfect and ... (Below threshold)

Practice makes perfect and they all are going for the Carnegie Hall appearances their parents always dreamed of.

Come on guys... FOLLOW THE ... (Below threshold)

Come on guys... FOLLOW THE MONEY! This is obviously a Congressionally-driven "requirement". What company is going to win the bid? As one EXAMPLE, Remington has operations in Madison, NC; Ilion, NY; Lonoke, AR; Hickory, KY; and Elizabethtown, KY. A person with a lot of time on their hands could plot this against the Congressional Districts. Just sayin...

Oh... CLICK.. it was Winche... (Below threshold)

Oh... CLICK.. it was Winchester? Well, the same idea applies. Part of the contract requirement could well be that the prime subs out work anyway. Dang, I was just going to buy a PX-4 in .40. Sounds like it might get expensive to shoot!

50 rounds of practice a wee... (Below threshold)

50 rounds of practice a week? That's not a big order.

You're right, if you catch ... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

You're right, if you catch the competition bug.

In my personal holy quest to burn up as much gun powder as possible before I die, I had several years where I went through 40,000 trap loads and bought reloading components in 5,000 round lots. Had a good time doing it, and met some nice folks along the way, too.

Explain what? 2600 rounds ... (Below threshold)
wtfo:

Explain what? 2600 rounds a year is on the low end for basic pistol proficiency of the sort you'd expect from one of the 3-letter government agencies.

A single 2 day training session can easily burn up 1000-1500 rounds.

That's a change from 2005 w... (Below threshold)
epador:

That's a change from 2005 when we couldn't get enough ammo to annually qual all folks on base (was an issue for USAF AND USCG).

The government wants to tak... (Below threshold)
Bill:

The government wants to take away our arms and can't quite figure out a way to do this, so far. So how about buying up all the ammunition that manufacturers can produce? After all, they have all the money they need (ours) and it can be called job stimulus for the manufacturers.

2600 rds per year!!! Excep... (Below threshold)
Olsoljer:

2600 rds per year!!! Except for maybe the Markmanship Pistol Teams, the US Army never shot that many rounds per year in qualification for the personnel armed with a pistol.

Besides WTF are they doing with hollow points, they would put a soldier UNDER the stockade for using hollow points in combat.

Can you imagine the lawsuit a terrorist would have after getting his arm blown off by a hollow point?

OlsoljerI don't care... (Below threshold)
Wayne:

Olsoljer
I don't care for this administration but this is a "no go" conspiracy. I'm not sure about MP's but most of the army doesn't train that much with pistols because we used much more lethal weapons. Infantry units shot a good deal more than 2600 rounds of ammo. Yes it is 5.56, 7.62 and 50 cal but that is what they used. They also have been using a good deal the MK 19 grenade launcher for a while now.

The reason the Army generally don't use hollow points is that it has less penetrating power and is more likely to jam. It has nothing to do with not damaging the enemy.

The number of pistols that ... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

The number of pistols that the agency has is somewhere in 65,000 range. Which include Federal Practice range. So that is not a lot of Ammo.

We are talking PISTOL ammo ... (Below threshold)
Olsoljer:

We are talking PISTOL ammo here, not 5.56, 7.62 etc. The reason the Army does not use hollow points is that it is "inhumane" and outlawed by the UN & Geneva Convention. I has everything to do with damaging the enemy.

"We are talking PISTOL ammo... (Below threshold)
Wayne:

"We are talking PISTOL ammo here"

Please. You tried to make a comparison to the Army's use of ammo. Don't you think the fact that Army combat Units seldom use pistols is relevant? Even as a Combat Officer who had to qualify with a pistol, it was not my primary weapon and I shot much more ammo than 2600. Pistol in the military is on step up from a knife and several step down from other weapons available.

Next you will be saying fighter planes or warships don't fire 2600 "pistol" rounds either.

Hollow points are not outlawed in the Geneva Conventions but the Hague Convention of 1899."weapons designed to aggravate injured soldiers or make their death inevitable"

Which is one of those PC things that politicians and leftist used to make themselves appear moral. Besides what some claim, the military does use hollow points in certain situations. The excusers when face with this fact usually claims that they are only in special circumstance and not in general. True but the fact remains. Also the military don't want to use hollow points in general. The fact is most all weapons are design to make death inevitable. The velocity of a 5.56, bombs, artillery shells, etc are all design to kill.

There were some fools who tried to improvise M16 rounds to make them what they call tumblers. All they did was screw up their accuracy. For general purposes using a hollow point is not wise. Penetration is more than "stopping power". As I already sated pistols are not the primary weapon of combat troops. You hit someone with a 5.56 round or bigger, you will stop them unless they are wearing good armor and even then sometimes and a hollow point round would be even less effective against armor.

Also the number of rounds need to qualify is not the same as number of round used. In a good combat unit just being able to qualify is nowhere near where you want your skill leveland you and shot a great deal more ammo outside of the qualification range. Support units is another story.




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