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How Low Can They Go?

Since the Tea Party movement began, the left and their media whores have ridiculed them, likened them to Nazis, or just hate them for having a political impact.

Nevermind that, during the Bush years, these same people who claimed "dissent is patriotic!" now look upon the people practicing this valid dissent as racist, bigoted, or un-American.

No surprise there.

What does surprise me (a little) is their fond and liberal use of the word "Teabaggers" to describe the people involved in the movement.

As innocuous as it sounds, the term is slang for a person participating in a very vulgar, graphic sexual act, the definition of which I actually learned at work while hearing a couple of teen-agers talking.

For those who may "know" of this particular definition, you'll understand just how offensive it is.

Now, I curse with the best of them and use, um, unflattering names for people almost on an hourly basis in a way that would make someone crawl under a desk in the fetal position and say a "Hail Mary," but, I don't do it in public, and I certainly don't do it on a nationally televised cable channel like MSNBC (Particularly Keith Dobermann, Rachael MadCow, and Chris Wrathews.).

For those of you who may not know the definition of "teabagging" or "teabagger," but want to understand just what kind of scumbags the above mentioned cretins are, here it is. (Please be advised: It is digusting, so if you don't want to know the foul depths to which these low-lifes reach on a daily basis, then DO NOT click.)

That now known, it would be akin to saying something like "Dirty Sanchez" or "Donkey Punch" on the air.

I don't think even MSNBC would condone that type of reference from one of its contributors, and the FCC would probably not take too kindly to its use.

Yet, it happens every day, several times a day, by several different "enlightened" liberals, poorly disguised as witty commentary.

How low can they go?

That low.

(Please note: My intention for writing and providing links to these "words" is purely to expose just how vile the term "Teabagging" is, and to provide some kind of context which would expose the complete disregard for civility in which those who use this term engage. I just find it unfortunate that MSNBC, in particular, by allowing this kind of language to be used so freely, eagerly encourages their televised failures to continue speaking like this.)


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Comments (55)

As is any level of propriet... (Below threshold)
epador:

As is any level of propriety @ MSNBC, the link is also lacking.

Hmmm.Don't know.</... (Below threshold)
Shawn:

Hmmm.

Don't know.

Works for me.

Tea Partier arrested:... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

Tea Partier arrested:

"Charles Alan Dyer, 29, of Marlow, was arrested for the alleged rape and forcible sodomy of a child. During the investigation into the allegations, the Stephens County Sheriff's Office obtained a warrant to collect DNA evidence. During the search the sheriff's deputies noted several firearms and a device believed to be a Colt M-203, 40-millimeter grenade launcher . . ."

http://www.duncanbanner.com/local/local_story_016181006.html

Worth all the namecalling j... (Below threshold)
glenn:

Worth all the namecalling just to see Chris Matthews face Tuesday night. Gutted with a rusty rake. Oh, and I call the lefties socktuckers and corkdippers. Gets me past the auditors in the MSM comments columns.

The "teabagger" name was fu... (Below threshold)
James H:

The "teabagger" name was funny for about the first five minutes, but it got old quickly.

Tea Partier arr... (Below threshold)
Tea Partier arrested
Uh-oh -- they're onto us now! They've unmasked our true agenda!!!
A. Browne ...the l... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

A. Browne ...

the linked article makes not mention of the Tea Parties ...

are you assuming he is a Tea Partier because of what he is accused of ?

gee, I guess Roman Polanski must be a Tea Pertier as well then ...

I think every time t... (Below threshold)

I think every time the word is used the other person(being interviewed etc) should interupt and asked that the term be defined for the public.

We all have learned as of late what the word means, but lets stop mollycoddling them...we need to call them on their foul mouth language.

Every time Steve Green or o... (Below threshold)
Jeff Medcalf:

Every time Steve Green or other namecalling jerks use the term, I tend to respond by apologizing that I can't hear them with someone else's scrotum in their mouth. Somehow, they never seem to find a response for having the term unpacked (as it were).

The excuse used bye the Lib... (Below threshold)
Bunker:

The excuse used bye the Liberal's is that a Tea Partier somewhere used the term about themselves so it is ok for anyone to use the term.

Of course using that logic Liberals must think it is ok to use the N-word when talking about black people or the F-word when talking about homosexuals.

Tea Partier arrested:... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Tea Partier arrested:

"Charles Alan Dyer, 29, of Marlow, was arrested for the alleged rape and forcible sodomy of a child. During the investigation into the allegations, the Stephens County Sheriff's Office obtained a warrant to collect DNA evidence. During the search the sheriff's deputies noted several firearms and a device believed to be a Colt M-203, 40-millimeter grenade launcher . . ."


If only he was a Massachusetts Democrat, Attorney General Marcia Coakely would have let him slide.

"The "teabagger" name was f... (Below threshold)
max:

"The "teabagger" name was funny for about the first five minutes, but it got old quickly."

Actually, it's funny as long as teabaggers continue to cry about it.

Max:The movement l... (Below threshold)
James H:

Max:

The movement looked ridiculous at first, but it is a legitimate movement that expresses legitimate discontent with government policies.

Hell, I probably oppose most of what they stand for and I'm starting to think they have a point.

The way I see it, the Tea Party partisans will nominate a third-party candidate in 2012. That candidate will poll around 10 to 15 percent for most of the election. The Democratic and Republican nominees will try to exclude the Tea Party candidate from debates, but will not be able to do so credibly.

As November 2012 approaches, the Tea Party candidate will see his poll numbers go down to closer to 8 to 12 percent as traditional Republican and Democratic leaners more firmly align with one party or another.

On election night, the Tea Party candidate will earn about 7 percent of the popular vote, possibly as much as 11 percent. This will be sufficient to swing the election to Barack Obama.

Meanwhile, both major parties will incorporate popular elements of the Tea Party agenda into their own platforms, winning back members of their own parties who voted for the Tea Party in 2012.

In 2014, adherents will continue to fall away from the Tea Party as their old parties recapture loyalty. Meanwhile, in late 2014, the Tea Party treasurer will embezzle about $2.3 million. The Tea Party's New Guard will use this as an excuse to purge the original founders, while a number of new members who aren't in the leadership will defect.

In 2016, the Tea Party will again try to run a presidential candidate, but it will not have nearly the traction is had in 2012. Jay Leno will compare Tea Party leaders to Tom DeLay. The Daily Show will salute the Tea Party in a "Behind the Politics" story that follows the same format as VH-1's "Behind the Music."

The Tea Party's candidate will try to get respect in the national media, but will not, as the party's novelty will have long worn off.

By 2028, Tea Party campaign buttons will be popular with collectors of political memorabilia.

I've given this a lot of thought, and I think the Tea Party will turn out much like previous third parties in American politics, from the Bull Mooses (Meese?) to the Dixiecrats to Perot's Reform Party. The party will have its moment in the sun, it will bring a number of useful ideas alongside the crazy ones, and it will be a valuable outlet for citizens to express their disgust with the existing parties.

We seem to see these movements crop up and gain steam about every two decades or so (Strom Thurmond, John Anderson, Ross Perot, etc.), so we should not be surprised to see the Tea Party show up now.

Mocking the Tea Party is certainly fair game. Every political party gets mocked, and rightly so. But I'd tinge the mockery with an iota of respect. Remember these are real people expressing real political passions, and not all of them are as crazy or as outside of the mainstream as you might think.

One thing MSNBC never has t... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

One thing MSNBC never has to worry about is being accused of having CLASS.

These liberal rags insult a... (Below threshold)
Flu-Bird:

These liberal rags insult and offend conservatives in their wretched news papers,magazines and talking heads and wonder why their losing their readers and viewers

I don't think even... (Below threshold)
Anon Y. Mous:
I don't think even MSNBC would condone that type of reference from one of its contributors, and the FCC would probably not take too kindly to its use.

Fortunately, for lovers of liberty, the FCC has no authority to regulate the content of non-over-the-airwaves broadcasts. Since MSNBC is distributed over cable systems instead of being broadcast over the public airways, the FCC just doesn't have the power to interfere with the free speech of MSNBC, however despicable it might be.

James, I am going to disagr... (Below threshold)
Picric:

James, I am going to disagree, there will be a third party candidate, from an small party (green or libertarian) but they will pull less that 2%. The current admin will need to pull to the center like Clinton did in 1994 and actually make progress or he gets voted out. (I am guessing the latter of the two).

Picric:We're talking... (Below threshold)
James H:

Picric:
We're talking about national-level politicians here. They have giant egos, and you have to hit them upside the head with a two-by-four -- repeatedly -- before they get a message. I don't think Obama et. al. will move to the center until after a third-party candidate seriously eats into Obama's support.

Something that disturbs me, though: Republicans leaders of 1994 were mature enough to work with Clinton on certain issues, and Clinton's White House was mature enough to work with them when they could find points of agreement. Are today's leaders mature enough to do so?

Its the same as calling som... (Below threshold)
Pretzel Logic:

Its the same as calling someone a c*cks*ck*r.

James H, you are reading wa... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

James H, you are reading way to much into the movement. We want both parties to focus on country first. Do their damn jobs. Only people without responsibilities cannot understand the Tea Party Movement. Everything the leftest scum say it is, it ain't. ww

"Republicans leaders of ... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

"Republicans leaders of 1994 were mature enough to work with Clinton on certain issues, and Clinton's White House was mature enough to work with them when they could find points of agreement."

Unfortunately for you, you don't know as much about Clinton as you think. Clinton was actually pulled to the left in the beginning. His natural tendency was more toward the center as was seen when he was Governor of Arkansas. A little to the left, but definately closer to the center so it wasn't that much of a stretch for him.

Obama has no such tendencies. His agenda and his ideology has always been far left. Going toward the center is an awkward exercize for him. He doesn't know how. He has no understanding of center politics. He knows what people want to hear, but that's as far as it goes.

Cleveland Steamer?... (Below threshold)
Son of a Pig and a Monkey:

Cleveland Steamer?

Willie:"We want bo... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Willie:

"We want both parties to focus on country first. Do their damn jobs. Only people without responsibilities cannot understand the Tea Party Movement. Everything the leftest scum say it is, it ain't."

So, in your view, what are the basic tenets and ideas of the Tea Party?

I personally don't understa... (Below threshold)

I personally don't understand why no one has publicly asked any of these politicians or members of the media "what does 'tea-bagger' mean?"

I definitely understand the... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

I definitely understand the desire to be listened to and respected. And I think that the ways in which certain pundits and politically minded folks talk about this particular movement is pretty reflective of the larger political environment that we are in.

Polemics are king, and a lot of political discussion breaks down into insults and threats pretty quickly. Of course, ridicule and humor has a long history in politics, and there is really no need to go away with sharp political commentary and satire.

So yes, I agree that people take things too far.

I am not quite sure exactly what the Tea Party movement is asking for or pushing for. Is there a clear, unified agenda? I have heard a whole series of complaints and issues, but not really a consistent platform, ideology, or plan.

So, to anyone else out there I would be interested in hearing what you consider the Tea Party movement to be all about.

"The way I see it, the Tea ... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"The way I see it, the Tea Party partisans will nominate a third-party candidate in 2012."
- James H

The Tea Party uncivil war will be THE thinking mans' event of the 2012 election season. In fact the maneuvering has begun a while ago.

The Republican establishment was amazingly quick in trying to co-opt the movement last summer here, at the local, grassroots level (Tulsa, OK), to the point of scheduling brinkmanship. Wiser heads prevailed, but essentially the Original TP had a loose ban on Republican office holders. The Suspicious TP EVENTUALLY followed suit, kind of, but was thick with suddenly-converted career politicians with histories of mercenary staff careers across parties.

The Original TP was not covered by the GOP-centric radio talk station (KFAQ-Fox) despite weeks notice, but jumped on the day-later Suspicious TP....and all subsequent TPs (which I deem Suspicious due to corporateering linkage to Glenn Beck events, not to mention rough fluffing by arch-Republican robot, Sean Hannity.

Apparently, due to derisive feedback or to hedge their prospects, corporateers have begun using the umbrella term "Take Back America" or the like, tying-in "red-white-and-blue" countrypolitan music acts and pantload book-shillers such as Dick Morris and Glenn "the 200 lb infant" Beck.

http://bokcenter.com/news.asp?id=10&pid=213&task=display

BTW tickets are going slowly, with complaints of over-pricing of tickets.
I consider these pseudo-populist events to be detrimental to the Real TP cause by design.

1) Beck, Hannity, etc do not want a world in which their jobs-as-controversialists requires ANY defense of the middle against the right. A successful TP (even a TP 3rd party run) would do just that. See Hannity & Fox News versus Ron Paul. "No room for Ron Paul in Fox Debate Trailer!!1!"

2) Corporate stringpullers hate unpredictabilty. The quarterly, FY, Long-Term strategerizing pays for jets, manors, jaunts, and junkets per the bottom line. While extremely elastic and diversified, Multinationals are people, too.

Executive wash room writ:
"He that shittith not upon another,
The same shall be shitted upon."

In conclusion: the Right is claimed across the mass media as a GOP prerogative of which the GOP attests. Any flouncing the borders between GOP and Right by infotainment figures of the Right is buncombe directed dialectically .

Only a Dem-Pub paradigm maintains the illusion that the Right/GOP is conservative.

Thus the TP movement (free of GOP influence) is the GOP-Right's mortal enemy. I say that the puffing of Palin is a GOP wedge against the Original TP; or a fire ship: when she inevitably goes, so goes any TP too closely aligned.

Shawn, your post was interesting, too.


Ryan,Some of the e... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Ryan,

Some of the early tea parties started with the theme of Taxed Enough Already! Therefore TEA party.

A unified agenda? Nope, it's people gathering locally to work together, not some organized, national movement.

The underlying principle bringing them together might be simply stated as lower taxes and smaller government.

Why don't you just go to a ... (Below threshold)
klrtz1:

Why don't you just go to a tea party protest, ryan a? There's no one who can tell you can't be there.

Kenny,"A unified a... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Kenny,

"A unified agenda? Nope, it's people gathering locally to work together, not some organized, national movement."

So why do people adhere to one name? That makes it sound like it's some kind of platform or specific movement.

Is it just a general protest of the status quo?

What direction are people taking this?

"The underlying principle bringing them together might be simply stated as lower taxes and smaller government."

Ok, so that's a general principle. Under this principle, when people get together to work, what are they trying to accomplish? What are they trying to change?

Question: Why would somebod... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Question: Why would somebody give me a negative vote for asking what the general tenets of the Tea Party are? That doesn't make any sense (see post #25 above).

"Why don't you just go to a... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"Why don't you just go to a tea party protest, ryan a? There's no one who can tell you can't be there."

I suppose I could do that. But I figured I would just ask some people here what the Tea Party is all about. Why not? There seems to be a number of supporters here, and I am interested to hear what their issues are.

I have heard a LOT about what the Tea Party movement is all about, but there are many different versions. Sometimes it sounds like a coherent movement, sometimes it definitely does not.

Does it hurt to ask people here what they think and why they are involved? I don't think so.

Ryan, what was the unifying... (Below threshold)

Ryan, what was the unifying platform of the Sons of Liberty when they perpetrated the first Boston Tea Party?

History -- it's what's for supper.

...and I think your negativ... (Below threshold)

...and I think your negative vote was because you're coming off like a concern troll.

If you don't know what that is, and you ask and don't get a satisfactory answer and you continue to monopolize the thread demanding an answer...

Ryan,"So why do pe... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Ryan,

"So why do people adhere to one name? That makes it sound like it's some kind of platform or specific movement."

Probably the same reason people call themselves "progressive". There's no "progressive" platform or "progressive" party, but people coming together with similar beliefs.

"Is it just a general protest of the status quo?"

Nope! It's more a protest against the expanding-government vision of the current democrat majorities in Congress, and in some of the states.

"What direction are people taking this?"

Coming together to work towards a smaller, less-intrusive government. Work towards returning some of the freedoms that have been taken away from us. And fighting some of the proposed loss of freedoms by the government.

"Ryan, what was the unifyin... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"Ryan, what was the unifying platform of the Sons of Liberty when they perpetrated the first Boston Tea Party?"

So you're arguing that it's the same platform?

By the way, no need to ask me US History 101 questions, unless somehow that makes you feel as if you are an intellectual giant.

I am asking people what they think...is there a problem with that?

"...and I think your negati... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"...and I think your negative vote was because you're coming off like a concern troll."

Ok. Well, whoever thought that was assuming a little too much.

"If you don't know what that is, and you ask and don't get a satisfactory answer and you continue to monopolize the thread demanding an answer..."

I'm not demanding anything. And I am not sure why you are so defensive. Feel free to ignore all of my posts if they are so traumatic and offensive to you. I could care less.

Kenny,"Probably th... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Kenny,

"Probably the same reason people call themselves "progressive". There's no "progressive" platform or "progressive" party, but people coming together with similar beliefs."

That's a good point. Many movements come about from general principles and overall feelings of dissatisfaction--and then they congeal into certain specific movements over time.

"Nope! It's more a protest against the expanding-government vision of the current democrat majorities in Congress, and in some of the states."

So you see it as being about limiting government. Do you see it as based more inside or outside the GOP? More of a Libertarian thing? Do you see this as something that could develop into a third party, or something that will attempt to influence the two main parties?

"Coming together to work towards a smaller, less-intrusive government. Work towards returning some of the freedoms that have been taken away from us. And fighting some of the proposed loss of freedoms by the government."

Which freedoms are you referring to?

By the way, thanks for your replies.

Ryan,"So you see i... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Ryan,

"So you see it as being about limiting government. Do you see it as based more inside or outside the GOP? More of a Libertarian thing? Do you see this as something that could develop into a third party, or something that will attempt to influence the two main parties?"

I don't think the GOP is as monolithic as you think. In the areas where a republican has stood for fiscal conservatism, I think you'll find the tea partiers working closely with them. In areas where the republicans don't have such a record, I think they'll work more outside the GOP. I think some people want a third party, and some want to change the major parties.

"Which freedoms are you referring to?"

Let me give you 2 examples. And please note, I speak for myself, not the tea partiers in general. First, a freedom that we've lost. The freedom to choose for myself whether or not to wear a seatbelt while driving a vehicle. I don't think the government should be interfering in actions that I take that only effect myself.

As for a proposed loss of freedom, last year here in California there was a proposed rule change that would mandate thermostats that could be remotely controlled by the state ISO (energy operator) so that in times of power demands, the state operators could raise or lower your thermostats temperature in order to reduce electrical demand.

"By the way, thanks for your replies."

You're welcome, I'll admit it is rare for me to come across someone left-leaning like you who is willing to have a civil discussion. It is a pleasure (especially compared to little stevie).

The Tea Party movement is a... (Below threshold)
Eric:

The Tea Party movement is a true grassroots movement that sprang up all over the country simultaneously. Its nexus came from CNBC reporter Rick Santelli's rant about an Obama plan to have the government refinance mortgages. In Santelli's rant he called for a Chicago Tea Party.

The Tea Party concept struck a chord across the country. Why? Well the Obama plan would have taxpayers foot the bill for buying out the mortgages of people who defaulted on their mortgages, thereby rewarding bad behavior. Many of us know people who bought way more house than they could afford. For those of us who played by the rules and work hard, it is inherently unfair to ask us to pay off the mortages of people who were stupid.

Then you have the Stimulus Bill that was rammed through Congress. It had all the signs of a giant pile of pork for the Democrats, while sticking the bill to the taxpayers.

Then we have Healthcare. The Democrats kept selling this thing as the best of all worlds, it would improve everyone's healthcare, provide healthcare to an additional 30 million people and yet decrease costs. Just common sense asks how do you decrease costs while adding 30 million new people who won't be paying into the system.

In response, the Democrats did the MOST STUPID thing they could have ever done. They were disrespectful to the voters. Tea Partiers were called Tea Baggers, racists, Nazi's and all kinds of bad names. People who weren't even associated with the Tea Parties but had legitimate concerns about all of the spending were suddenly being disrespected by the government, the media and the elite, all of who have one thing in common, they were Democrats.

Americans have a history of being ornery when they are disrespected. The Democrats kicked a hornet's nest when they did that. It was dumb then, it is dumb now, and there are plenty of signs that many of the Democrats haven't learned the lesson.


One more thing. The Tea Party movement may pull mostly from the Republicans and Libertarians, but it also has a lot of Democrats in it.

I had a great conversation with one of my co-workers in our Boston office. She voted for Scott Brown. It was the first time in her entire life that she has ever voted for a Republican. As a 40+ year old lesbian in Boston, she is not the stereotypical Tea Party demographic. She told me that she is totally disenchanted with Obama and the Democrats. She had deep concerns about how the government was spending and she was surprised at the reaction she received from some of her fellow Democrats.

She said slurs thrown at her and the Tea Partiers reminded her of the kind homophobic hatred she had to deal with growing up.

"I don't think the GOP is a... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"I don't think the GOP is as monolithic as you think."

Oh, I agree with you there. I think that too many people tend to think of both parties as a lot more monolithic than they really are. Funny how that works.

"In the areas where a republican has stood for fiscal conservatism, I think you'll find the tea partiers working closely with them. In areas where the republicans don't have such a record, I think they'll work more outside the GOP. I think some people want a third party, and some want to change the major parties."

I was just wondering where people place it all--whether inside or outside the GOP. As you mention, it seems pretty mixed.

The whole third party thing is interesting here in the US...they never really seem to be able to get off the ground. But I actually think it would be a good thing if the Republicans and Democrats got a little more competition--from multiple sides.

"Let me give you 2 examples. And please note, I speak for myself, not the tea partiers in general. First, a freedom that we've lost. The freedom to choose for myself whether or not to wear a seatbelt while driving a vehicle. I don't think the government should be interfering in actions that I take that only affect myself."

I can see your point with that. Sometimes it feels like pretty much everything we do is regulated. The difficult part is finding a way to balance the role of the state with individual freedom. There has to be a certain set of laws and guidelines...but when is it all too much?

So this sounds more Libertarian-ish to me. Less government regulation and intervention. This is a pretty common conservative/libertarian position. But then it gets a little complicated because some conservatives do advocate for government intervention when it comes to certain social measures/ideals. To me that has always been a difficult position to understand. Seems contradictory.

"As for a proposed loss of freedom, last year here in California there was a proposed rule change that would mandate thermostats that could be remotely controlled by the state ISO (energy operator) so that in times of power demands, the state operators could raise or lower your thermostats temperature in order to reduce electrical demand."

Ya, that's pretty intrusive. Was that SDGE trying to pull that off? Or PGE? I am out of state so I am missing some of the local politics. Gotta love those power companies. Are you in the northern or southern part of the state?

"You're welcome, I'll admit it is rare for me to come across someone left-leaning like you who is willing to have a civil discussion. It is a pleasure."

Thanks. I have been called a "filthy centrist" around these parts in the past, so watch out ;)

"Which freedoms are you ref... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"Which freedoms are you referring to?"-ryan a

I think that the ORIGINAL TP movement (a second cousin-in-law to the grassroots Ron Paul Revolution tea bag mail-in campaign (pre-dating the GOP-esque tea bag mail-in campaign by months) was a loose coalition of conservatives who realized, post-2006 mid-terms (FINALLY!), that, not only was the GOP unconcerned over civil liberties issues during the Bush administration (for government vs. People IS a zero sum game,and government GREW exponentially), but that the GOP was an active soft-oppressor (Kelo Decision) as well as conveniently incompetent (leaving the field open to Democratic takeover while Republican's held the high cards of government monopoly, i.e. Fat AND Stupid).

This ORIGINAL TP movement was decidedly a conservative-libertarian mix, which made the GOP fearful and nauseous.

Early cause celebre: the dearth of, and rise in ammunition prices during early Obama admin was a magnet for independents to TP rallies. "Strangely", the gun issue is not something the GOP feels comfortable in hawking. (Not partisan enough; see Vermont gun laws, etc)

Subsequent SUSPICIOUS (GOP-esque) TP clone rallies were steered more toward the vague Culture War issues which were wrapped around Obama rather clumsily. Nevermind the fact that the GOP political caretakership is hardly pro-life or low taxes in practice.

The above dichotomies figuring inside the struggle for control inside the Greater Tea Party Movement(reg.) over the proverbial power of attorney, rightly leaves most people confused.

If any TP organization harps on Obama as unique boogieman, ignores GOP collaboration inside the welfare state for the past 50 years, and is decidedly pro-forever-war, then that TP organization is a crypto-GOP stalking horse. Walk, quack, duck.

Takeaway: the REAL TP takes pains to differentiate itself from the empty suits on both sides of the aisle; ESPECIALLY the Republicans, since without such differentiation there is no purpose for the Tea Party movement.

The fake/suspicious, highly-financed and puffed TP movement relies on picking low-hanging fruit, patronizingly aimed at Country music fans, stock car fans, church goers, dittoheads, etc. Fine run-of-the-mill people, but not likely adept at discerning the signs or the times. They just basically "agree" in a multiple choice kind of way.

I WON'T call them sheep! They mean well. Just low-hanging fruit.


Eric,Thanks for th... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Eric,

Thanks for the reply.

"In response, the Democrats did the MOST STUPID thing they could have ever done. They were disrespectful to the voters. Tea Partiers were called Tea Baggers, racists, Nazi's and all kinds of bad names. People who weren't even associated with the Tea Parties but had legitimate concerns about all of the spending were suddenly being disrespected by the government, the media and the elite, all of who have one thing in common, they were Democrats.

As I stated earlier, I think that a lot of legitimate concerns get buried underneath the polemic ways that different people interact.

Both sides use what is little more than 3rd grade name-calling as a tactic to derail debate. It's frustrating. For some, though, it's pretty efficient, since it keeps all of the infighting going.

The best way to hammer through difference is through differences and find ways to actually listen to different social and political perspectives. Easier said than done.

"One more thing. The Tea Party movement may pull mostly from the Republicans and Libertarians, but it also has a lot of Democrats in it."

Doesn't really surprise me. The Dems are going through a crisis of control and identity right now. At least, that's how it seems.

"She said slurs thrown at her and the Tea Partiers reminded her of the kind homophobic hatred she had to deal with growing up."

I have seen plenty of this kind of thing in the past years, from both the far left and the far right. The ways that people talk about and to one another are sometimes deplorable.

Gotta wonder whose going to break the cycle. Probably not going to be Rachael Maddow or Glenn Beck...

BryanD:You make so... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

BryanD:

You make some interesting points about some of the internal differentiation of the Tea Party movement. There definitely seems to be a pretty mixed political message coming from them.

But then you write:

"The fake/suspicious, highly-financed and puffed TP movement relies on picking low-hanging fruit, patronizingly aimed at Country music fans, stock car fans, church goers, dittoheads, etc. Fine run-of-the-mill people, but not likely adept at discerning the signs or the times. They just basically "agree" in a multiple choice kind of way."

WTF? What's the point of slogging through a bunch of baseless stereotypes? Do you really think that all Americans who listen to Country music, go to church, like cars, and listen to Limbaugh are STUPID? Is that what you meant to say?

While I might disagree with many of the positions of, say, die hard Rush Limbaugh fans, I certainly do not assume that they are stupid people. You're just adding more to the fire with this crap.

"I WON'T call them sheep! They mean well. Just low-hanging fruit."

You stay classy, Bryan.

A couple questions for you: do you only talk to and associate with people that you agree with? Is that some kind of rule that you have? Or do you actually listen to opposing points of view? Do you think that someone is stupid simply because they disagree with you?

Just wondering.

TYPO (#42):This: "... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

TYPO (#42):

This: "The best way to hammer through difference is through differences and find ways to actually listen to different social and political perspectives. Easier said than done."

Should read:

"The best way to hammer through difference is to find ways to actually listen to different social and political perspectives. Easier said than done."

Shit happens.

Ryan,"I was just w... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Ryan,

"I was just wondering where people place it all--whether inside or outside the GOP. As you mention, it seems pretty mixed.

The whole third party thing is interesting here in the US...they never really seem to be able to get off the ground. But I actually think it would be a good thing if the Republicans and Democrats got a little more competition--from multiple sides."

I definitely agree. When I look at the israeli or various european countries multi-party systems, I wish we hadn't coalesced around 2 major parties here. As you've noticed, I support the GOP but I come from more libertarian beliefs. I don't agree with some of the stands the republican party takes on social issues, but in a 2-party system, they're MUCH closer to my thoughts than the democrats. If we had 4-6 solid parties, and the parties in power had to work with coalitions, I think it would be better than the polarization that has been going on for the last 20-30 years.


"I can see your point with that. Sometimes it feels like pretty much everything we do is regulated. The difficult part is finding a way to balance the role of the state with individual freedom. There has to be a certain set of laws and guidelines...but when is it all too much?"

What is the role of the state? Protecting individuals rights maybe? I think it is too much when it interferes with consenting adults performing actions that don't harm others. The seat belt and helmet laws are my favorite examples of government intrusion. What if my 'pursuit of happiness' includes riding my motorcycle without a helmet? If I get in an accident, I'm the one suffering harm.

"So this sounds more Libertarian-ish to me. Less government regulation and intervention. This is a pretty common conservative/libertarian position. But then it gets a little complicated because some conservatives do advocate for government intervention when it comes to certain social measures/ideals. To me that has always been a difficult position to understand. Seems contradictory."

Back to that monolithic thinking again . Some conservatives believe in social issues and not so much on fiscal discipline. Yet they're still lumped together in the conservative tent.


"Ya, that's pretty intrusive. Was that SDGE trying to pull that off? Or PGE? I am out of state so I am missing some of the local politics. Gotta love those power companies. Are you in the northern or southern part of the state?"

Nope, not PG&E, it was one of the state agencies (I don't remember which one, too many of them!)

I'm on the lovely central coast. (Unfortunately, too close to Santa Cruz and Berkeley)


Tis better to be a tea-bagg... (Below threshold)
LiberalNItemare:

Tis better to be a tea-bagger, than to be tea-bagged.

Ask Martha, she can tell you.

Kenny,"If we had 4... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Kenny,

"If we had 4-6 solid parties, and the parties in power had to work with coalitions, I think it would be better than the polarization that has been going on for the last 20-30 years."

Would be nice to get away from all or nothing options, wouldn't it. Somehow, I don't think the 2 parties are too keen on allowing more to join the fray.

"The seat belt and helmet laws are my favorite examples of government intrusion. What if my 'pursuit of happiness' includes riding my motorcycle without a helmet? If I get in an accident, I'm the one suffering harm."

Ha, for some reason that makes me think of Hunter Thompson.

(apologies if you can't stand the guy)

"Back to that monolithic thinking again . Some conservatives believe in social issues and not so much on fiscal discipline. Yet they're still lumped together in the conservative tent."

Indeed. A lot of people under one tent. I suppose it matters who has control at any given time.

"I'm on the lovely central coast. (Unfortunately, too close to Santa Cruz and Berkeley)"

That's the best part of the whole state, IMO. Ever head down to Big Sur?

Ryan,"Would be nic... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Ryan,

"Would be nice to get away from all or nothing options, wouldn't it. Somehow, I don't think the 2 parties are too keen on allowing more to join the fray."

Yep, the leaders of both parties seem to get seduced by power and want to keep control. It seems like the longer people 'serve' in Washington DC or Sacrament, they seem to lose touch with us ordinary folks and want to hang on to power. I think that's one of the bigger reasons most tea party activities so far are just local, and they aren't looking to be a national group (yet).


"Indeed. A lot of people under one tent. I suppose it matters who has control at any given time."

Yep. Who has control and what their policies are. I think that's why you saw increased voter turnout for the democrats and reduced voter turnout for the republicans in the nov 2008 elections. Obama was portrayed as hope and change where everyone in the democrat tent, no matter where they stood, saw what they wanted to in him. McCain on the other hand, turned off some of the fiscal and some of the social republicans.


"That's the best part of the whole state, IMO. Ever head down to Big Sur?"

Ah yes, Nothing beats a sunny summer afternoon sipping ice tea on the patio at Nepenthe and dinking in the breathtaking views...

"WTF? What's the point of s... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"WTF? What's the point of slogging through a bunch of baseless stereotypes? Do you really think that all Americans who listen to Country music, go to church, like cars, and listen to Limbaugh are STUPID? Is that what you meant to say?"-ryan a

I could have expressed it more artfully. But the above categories of people consist of a core-type, though not every partaker runs to that type in a statistical way. Those that don't can't be "read" and are thus ignored.
For example, similarities to type in a particular detail garners a +1. Atypicality garners a 0. Incongruency gets a -1.
It doesn't take a genius to understand that high incidence of statistical variance is low among stock car fans regarding BASIC opinions on a political scale. They SEE themselves (delusionally or not) in certain ways which is KEY to psychological profiling and inducing a response that can be steered.

This methodology is and has been useful for political scientists and sociologists since WW1 (see Bernays), most notably in advertising, and what is political drumming but advertising by another name? To sell product, a target must be "coaxed" psychologically.

A good example is the counter-application of the *unfortunate* Obamaean trope that the Right "clings to gun and Bible".

Though, not tested in the throes of a succesful PLA invasion of USA demanding Bibles or Death, it is safe to assume that virtually all "clingers" would like to think themselves eager to face Death as an honor for the cause: a slam dunk for the Right to jump on and tout against Obama's Otherness. It was a clear stereotype that was aligned with self-image. 100% valid accidental stereotype.

Again, I employ "stereotype" because in reality those who would stoop to self-justification in times when Bible buys Life, would be astonishingly high. But Obama's trope was a Dog Whistle. Pride became the currency.

So why did I use the above stereotypes in the first place? Because they are already being used by operatives and media as signifiers of a constituency that follows the call of "Red, white and blue". Lack of military service in war or peace can't convince these folks that they aren't (at least potentially) the acme of patriotism. Patriotism is the Bloody Shirt of Republican politics BTW since the negative "ads" questioning Grover Cleveland's civil war non-record.

So there is a basis. "Low-hanging fruit" means easily "read"; predictability concerning primary issues.

Kenny,"Ah yes, Not... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Kenny,

"Ah yes, Nothing beats a sunny summer afternoon sipping ice tea on the patio at Nepenthe and dinking in the breathtaking views..."

Damn right! Nepenthe is one of the coolest spots along the coast.

"I could have expressed it ... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"I could have expressed it more artfully. But the above categories of people consist of a core-type, though not every partaker runs to that type in a statistical way."

Right, more artfully. What do you mean CORE-TYPE? You're claiming that people who listen to certain kinds of music have some kind of inherent qualities? Are you claiming that this is cultural or genetic? How did you make this determination?

"It doesn't take a genius to understand that high incidence of statistical variance is low among stock car fans regarding BASIC opinions on a political scale."

Don't try to use a bunch of half-baked science language on me. Exactly what data are you referring to? Is this some study you are talking about, or are you making all this up? Sounds pretty shoddy.

Can you clarify what you mean by "basic" opinions on a political scale? How did you determine whether or not a person was or was not a stock car fan? What was your sample size? What were your interview methods? When was this study undertaken?

I have a sneaking feeling that this is all your opinion, little more.

"They SEE themselves (delusionally or not) in certain ways which is KEY to psychological profiling and inducing a response that can be steered."

Who is THEY? What sample population are you talking about? What study are you referring to? Have you been watching the show Criminal Minds a little too much?

"So why did I use the above stereotypes in the first place? Because they are already being used by operatives and media as signifiers of a constituency that follows the call of "Red, white and blue"."

That's it? Your believe this crap because "operatives" and the media use it to try to manipulate voting populations? Really? Be careful about just assuming that there is any kind of reality behind any of this. And I would also be wary about simply adopting stereotypes because they fit your political predilections.

"So there is a basis. "Low-hanging fruit" means easily "read"; predictability concerning primary issues."

Interesting. So these people are less complex, is that it? Are you into psychology or marketing or something? I'm not buying all of this, sorry. Sounds to me like you're just rationalizing your own biases.

I can't think of a single reputable social scientist who would even think about making the broad claims that you are trying to sell here.

"I can't think of a single ... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"I can't think of a single reputable social scientist who would even think about making the broad claims that you are trying to sell here."
51. Posted by ryan

It's my loose observations based on reading notable popular books printed since the 1950s (The Hidden Persuaders, etc). Also A.T. Fomenko is the source of my cribbed pseudo-statisticians' patois. I'm not a salesman but salesmanship is a key aspect in how I make a living. I use obscure imagery and symbolism in figurative painting and drawing which invites study best accomplished through purchase as a challenge well met.

You could say I strive to make each project *chic*.

Anyway, you will find this video enlightening.
It's a 4-parter:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151&ei=XAZZS5brN6TwqAOq5dHIAQ&q=bernays#

"It's my loose observations... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"It's my loose observations based on reading notable popular books printed since the 1950s (The Hidden Persuaders, etc)."

Loose being the key word, Bryan. This isn't exactly a sound method, you know. Making extended judgments about millions of people...based upon "notable popular books"? Hardly scientific.

"Also A.T. Fomenko is the source of my cribbed pseudo-statisticians' patois."

So what is it, exactly, that you find appealing or useful about Fomenko's ideas?

"I'm not a salesman but salesmanship is a key aspect in how I make a living. I use obscure imagery and symbolism in figurative painting and drawing which invites study best accomplished through purchase as a challenge well met."

And? Do you have a point to make?

"Anyway, you will find this video enlightening."

So you're into the life and work of Bernays. Is there a point you want to make? Do you have something particularly salient that you want to bring up? You still haven't really made any clear points about anything, and it still seems pretty apparent that you are operating on false premises.

For all the criticism you dish out around here your arguments sure do come up short on clarity and substance.

Basically you're making the claim that people who listen to country music, go to church, follow stock cars, and listen to Rush Limbaugh are all part of some monolithic, simplistic, predictable, and easily manipulated block...as per the ideas of a propagandist and an obscure Russian pseudo-historian? Sorry pal, but you're full of sh*t.

When someone is referred to... (Below threshold)
Dave:

When someone is referred to as a "teabagger", we should ask, "If he is a teabagger, who just got teabagged?"

The Tea Party Movement, and... (Below threshold)
clay barham:

The Tea Party Movement, and GOP, needs to concentrate on jobs and economic growth. It is the innovative entrepreneur we need to look to for new jobs. But, what makes an entrepreneur? Passion over something beyond his or her nose, explained in Save Pebble Droppers & Prosperity on Amazon and claysamerica.com. They are willing to make waves and wakes in placid waters without fear of retribution by the powers that be, to be cold, hungry and anxious when others are calm, because they see something others do not. We need to clear the air for that kind of freedom and quit assuming free people are bad and managed people are good. claysamerica.com




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