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Chinese scientists add to climategate

Climategate is once again back in the news and of course by news I mean media outside the United States. This time, the Guardian UK reports about continued investigation into the leaked emails from the CRU.

A Guardian investigation of thousands of emails and documents apparently hacked from the University of East Anglia's climatic research unit has found evidence that a series of measurements from Chinese weather stations were seriously flawed and that documents relating to them could not be produced.
The questions arise around the level of urban development around the weather stations. Some have argued that a change from rural to urban around a particular station can have dramatic warming effect. Phil Jones, the former director of the CRU, has maintained that the effect is minimal.
Climate change sceptics asked the UEA, via FOI requests, for location data for the 84 weather stations in eastern China, half of which were urban and half rural.

The history of where the weather stations were sited was crucial to Jones and Wang's 1990 study, as it concluded the rising temperatures recorded in China were the result of global climate changes rather the warming effects of expanding cities.

The IPCC's 2007 report used the study to justify the claim that "any urban-related trend" in global temperatures was small. Jones was one of two "coordinating lead authors" for the relevant chapter.

The leaked emails from the CRU reveal that the former director of the unit, Tom Wigley, harboured grave doubts about the cover-up of the shortcomings in Jones and Wang's work. Wigley was in charge of CRU when the original paper was published. "Were you taking W-CW [Wang] on trust?" he asked Jones. He continued: "Why, why, why did you and W-CW not simply say this right at the start?"

Now this being the Guardian the article is full of subtext like "skeptics" and "accusations" and links to articles (also at the Guardian) claiming anyone who dares question climate change flat out lies, end of discussion. But the fact that even they are reporting on improprieties in the climate community speaks volumes.

The spirit to investigate these matters is mirrored in all places the Chinese media. Instapundit links to a story about Chinese coverage of climategate and other similar scandals.

China is not a small country. Its landmass spans several climate zones and includes the roof of the world. I have to wonder how data from China would affect the IPCC's findings.

Several Chinese scientists who have gone over the IPCC report believe that the IPCC may have overstated the link between global temperature and CO2 in the atmosphere.

In a paper published in the December issue of the Chinese language Earth Science magazine, Ding Zhongli, an established environmental scientist, stated that the current temperatures on earth look normal if global climate changes over the past 10,000 years are considered.

The point here is not that all work and models claiming an increase in global temperatures is wrong. The point is that the science is not settled at all and it has been scientists themselves that have be smothering any debate on the topic. I can't think of a more unscientific attitude than that.

I found it interesting that in the comments to my last climate scandal post, the main detractors and (dare I use the term) skeptics that there is any doubt to the AGW hypothesis didn't even argue the point at all. From the comments we learned that all science has been marred by interference throughout time and this case is no different. Most notably those arguing this didn't say whether or not we should still make trillion dollar and society-changing decisions based on this "science".

Update after the break.

I noticed that Mark Steyn at the Corner has also commented on the story. He caught something that I missed in my first reading.

It also emerges that documents which Wang claimed would exonerate him and Jones did not exist. . . .

Wang said: "I have been exonerated by my university on all the charges. When we started on the paper we had all the station location details in order to identify our network, but we cannot find them any more."

How many times is this "revelation" of lost data going to be accepted?


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Comments (21)

Would the Chinese go out of... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Would the Chinese go out of their way to fake numbers so that gullible GW "scientists" would continue to scream like chicken little to their governments? Sure. Because those dumb asses would start writing regulations that would saddle THEIR industries with added costs. One guess who's industries would not have those costs and who would be more competitive?

"Some have argued that a... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

"Some have argued that a change from rural to urban around a particular station can have dramatic warming effect. Phil Jones, the former director of the CRU, has maintained that the effect is minimal."

Minimal as in what? One or two degrees? I only ask because they have harped incessantly that if global tempuratures rise a mere couple of degrees the results can be catastrophic.

Boy, its a good thing that ... (Below threshold)
LiberalNitemare:

Boy, its a good thing that the science is already settled.

Oyster - Go to <a ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Oyster -

Go to http://www.surfacestations.org/
there you will see that most stations are at least 1 to 2 degrees off due to bad positioning and set up. So I suppose the answer is yes, 1 to 2 degrees off because it is in an urban area is no different from the 2 degrees the rural station is off because they located it next to the AC exhaust.

It doesn't matter that the US MSM doesn't report on this issue. Fewer people listen to them every day.

Obama will save their jobs with a federal take over and they will all be just another group of government employees who leech off of the rest of us and do nothing to make our lives (or anyone else's) better.

Actaully Phil Jones has pub... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

Actaully Phil Jones has published a more recent study of UHI in China and now says that it has a .1 degree per decade effect. Or 1 degree per 100 years.
UHI is not in dispute what is in dispute is whether it is showing up in the temp records. One NASA study says that because of "cool parks" where the equipment is located the themometers are not seeing the UHI.
The fact is that less than 50% of the data used to calculate global average temperatures is simply made up. Its not themometer records, its interpolated (i.e. guessed at) based on themometer records as far away as hundreds of miles. The country of Bolivia has had all of its temperature records thrown out and replaced by interpolated data. Bolivia is very mountainous and most of the country is at higher elevations (i.e cooler). But on the global temperature maps it shows up as hot spot because its records are interpolated from coastal locations as far as 1,200 miles away.
This is lying by excluding and its going on all over NASA's records.

Jeff--I'd love a reference ... (Below threshold)

Jeff--I'd love a reference regarding the Bolivia scenario if you can dig one up for me. Thanks.

OMG! An ice cube melted on... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

OMG! An ice cube melted on my table while eating lunch today. WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! Note to GW "scientists": Please feel free to use this observation to support your data/theories.

Where are you liberals? (ps... (Below threshold)
Drago:

Where are you liberals? (pssst, Steve Green, I'm talking to you.....)

Come on! It's time to defend your "peer-reviewed", the "science is settled", "all reputable "climatologists" know AGW is real", "the ice-caps are melting", "the glaciers are receding", "the polar bears are drowning", "and did we mention the science is settled" position!!

Heck, even Osama Bin Laden is on your side!! What are you afraid of?

Where are the libs? Gone n... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Where are the libs? Gone now that global warming has been shown to be a fraud and is now a losing argument that gets even the President laughed at.

Notice how they leave. No admission of error. No acknowledgment of the truth. No apology for trying to take over the economy of every nation on earth with insane laws meant to drive the rest of us into living in some medieval nightmare. Nothing. They are just off to figure out what their next scam will be to try to subjugate the rest of us, or in the case of the trolls here, waiting for their new talking points on the next scam.

The chinese are morons. ju... (Below threshold)
retired military:

The chinese are morons. just ask Steve Green. I mean he said anyone that doesnt believe in global warming is a moron. And oh yeah. Obama said that global warming is real. Of coruse he also said no lobbyists in his administration, bills would be online 5 days before being signed, health care talks would be on CSPAN, and GITMO would be closed about 2 weeks ago and that doesnt bother Steve Green. He believes everything his master tells him.

Actaully Phil Jone... (Below threshold)
Phil Jones:
Actaully Phil Jones has published a more recent study of UHI in China and now says that it has a .1 degree per decade effect. Or 1 degree per 100 years.

That's right. I used "value-added" data that included multiplying by the correction factor of [the answer I wanted to get]/[the answer I did get]. And the result was: we're doomed! Doomed, I tell you! The science is settled!

The Chinese are on t... (Below threshold)
Jay Guevara:

The Chinese are on the payroll of Big Oil now too? There's a gazillion of 'em! No wonder gas prices are so high. Slipping 'em a fin apiece would bankrupt anyone.

One of these things is not ... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

One of these things is not like the others:

The speed of light IS 186,000 miles per second.

Earth's atmosphere IS composed of 78% Nitrogen, 2% Oxygen, and 1% other gasses.

The diameter of an proton IS 0.000000000001 mm

The half-life of Uranium 238 IS 4.5 billion years

The average distance between the Earth and the sun IS 93 million miles

The effect of urbanization on local temperatures has been "maintained" to be "minimal".

#13You forg... (Below threshold)
914:

#13


You forgot one.

The law of averages ASSertains that once every 2000 years an ass asserts itself above all beings while having no given authority other than its own arrogant Assine Assertions! That is A-hole One! .. A proven Ass among us!

I BELIEVE IN GLOBAL WARMING... (Below threshold)
klrtz1:

I BELIEVE IN GLOBAL WARMING. I believe in very mild global warming that is not man made and that is not any particular problem for humanity.

The CRU temperature data for central England shows a temperature rise there of 0.26 degrees per century. I don't believe this slight rise in temperature is going to be a problem even if it goes on for the next thousand years (+2.6 degrees) because it gives people plenty of time to adjust to it.

Sorry Klrtz1, I... (Below threshold)
ariel:

Sorry Klrtz1,

If you believe any data coming out of CRU is in the least bit accurate, then you have obviously been in a coma for the last 3 months. Their data has been messaged and manipulated and in some cases outright falsified, yet you still choose to believe them? Believe this rather. The science has been seriously compromised at not only CRU, but also at NASA and NOAA where both agencies admit to "adjusting" their data to iron out anomalies, (like colder temperatures).

There is a concerted effort underway to "roll back" the economies of the western industrialized nations and redistribute much of the wealth generated by those economies. Global Warming or climate change is the leverage they need to accomplish that purpose. The Copenhagen Conference was supposed to cement that process with a binding carbon reduction agreement among all the industrialized nations. Thankfully that did not happen, but that doesn't mean that it won't. These people are not about to give up their golden fleece without a fight.

The temperature is rising! ... (Below threshold)
914:

The temperature is rising! Its risen a whole 15 degrees since I got up this morning. Perhaps I will experience global cooling tonight when it dips back down to around 5 above. Warm in this neck of the woods. Either way I am not paying more to world government vermin because of warming and cooling.

They can suck it out of algore's lying traitorous ass.

You should follow the link,... (Below threshold)
klrtz1:

You should follow the link, ariel, and read the information. The link is to an anti-AGW blog not the CRU. Honest, there's no trick involved. Isn't it more rational to figure out what data hasn't been manipulated and use that to decide?

Mild global warming is a good thing if it delays or even prevents the next ice age, don't you think?

The Chi-coms must be partis... (Below threshold)
914:

The Chi-coms must be partisan hacks of the right wing extremist pantheon party right G-Man?

Climate Change gravy train.... (Below threshold)
John A. Jauregui:

Climate Change gravy train. Are you angry about this obvious RICO Act fraud and the national media's complicity in the cover-up, misinformation, reframing and misdirection of the issue and the related "carbon derivatives" market Obama's Administration is spinning up? Why pay for propaganda? Take responsibility and take action. STOP all donations to the political party(s) responsible for this fraud. STOP donations to all environmental groups which funded this Global Warming propaganda campaign with our money, especially The World Wildlife Fund. DEMAND they take you off their donors' mailing list. They have violated the public trust. KEEP donations local, close to home.

I am so relieved to see her... (Below threshold)
rootless cosmopolitan:

I am so relieved to see here that "climate skeptics" are so much higher evolved and don't take every bit of information that they can find, some missing data here, some mistakes in the IPCC-report, or some still open scientific question there, as confirmation for their already made up belief that global warming was a hoax, which is not at all rooted in political/ideological bias, and don't ignore anything else that would contradict this believe and support the view global warming was real.

rc




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