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ObamaCare Fumes Overcome Frum But Hinderaker Sees A Bright Future

David Frum was fast out of the gate this afternoon with misgivings, warnings and hand wringing of Republican doom as a result of the passage of ObamaCare tonight. There's nothing like the weakest among us rushing out with the white hankie to appease the victors as the defenders of private markets and liberty reload for a more important battle. But Frum has been suspect from the beginning and there is much in his recent past that should give the conservative base pause as he frets about "the most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960's".

On the other side John Hinderaker refuses to panic at the sight of a Democratic charge into the abyss and rather sees an enemy destroying itself. Read both of these opinions and decide whom you would follow.

Here are the main points of Frum's fretting:

It's hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they'll compensate for today's expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections.

But:

It's a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November - by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or - more exactly - with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?

Thankfully John Hinderaker at Powerline offers a more realistic view that includes the challenge that Republicans must continue to show some spine:

* The health care battle is just beginning. Next, the Senate will try to enact the House's "fixes" to the original Senate bill. Some Senators say that won't happen. If not, then President Obama has the option of signing the original Senate bill--now passed by the House--Cornhusker Kickback and all. I assume he would do that, but the resulting blowback from House Democrats, not to mention the American people, would be something to behold.

* The health care bill's taxes will go into effect promptly, but its substantive provisions are, for the most part, deferred for four years. This means that we have plenty of time to repeal the legislation. Sure, it will take a new Congress and new President. But repealing this disaster of a bill will by a rallying cry for the American people for years to come. Moreover, even if the Republicans only take over the House in November, and not the Senate, won't it be possible to throw roadblocks in the way of the bill's implementation? Won't budget appropriations be necessary to sustain the various federal tentacles the bill seeks to establish? What will happen if the House simply refuses to fund them?

* I've never been prouder to be a Republican. The party's Congressional leaders have fought this battle to the end on behalf of the American people--with intelligence, toughness, persistence and good humor. The contrast between the parties has never been starker than in today's debate. If any intelligent Democrats were watching--there must be some left--they had to be embarrassed for their party.

* The health care debate has energized the conservative movement and awoken the sleeping giant, that is, the American people. The Democrats misinterpreted their electoral victories in 2006 and 2008 as a mandate for socialism. Now a majority of voters are intent on disabusing them of that misapprehension. Just about all of the political energy today is on the right--a remarkable fact, only sixteen months after the Democrats' high-water mark in November 2008.

* Barack Obama has used his political capital--pretty much all of it--on unpopular legislation that will continue to rile the voters for years to come. As a result, Obama is a remarkably unpopular second-year President. And he hasn't even experienced any bad luck yet. It is hard to see how he will be able to regain his footing.

Now, which of these guys represent the gist of the current political polemic? The whiner or the realist? The white flag waver or the challenger? The defeatist or the optimist? Those aren't just rhetorical questions because in a few months these points will be raised as they address real political candidates.

Those conservative, libertarian and Tea Party protestors that came to Washington several times during the past twelve months are not looking for a milquetoast leader any more than their predecessors were in 1980. They want some real change.


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Comments (29)

"Give me liberty or give me... (Below threshold)
davidt:

"Give me liberty or give me death!"

Dems can celebrate now but ... (Below threshold)
Maddox:

Dems can celebrate now but most of us will stand with davidt above and
We shall overcome.

Hinderaker is correct. </p... (Below threshold)
Matt:

Hinderaker is correct.

Frum has always been an hankerchief wringing, girly-man willing to throw the country to the crocodiles, one conservative at a time.

"Hell hath no fury like the... (Below threshold)
Maddox:

"Hell hath no fury like the American people in November."

Who is David From?... (Below threshold)
serfer62:

Who is David From?

wait...what? Frum wanted Re... (Below threshold)
exceller:

wait...what? Frum wanted Republicans to make a deal? There is no bigger idiot than Frum. It's rare to find someone who get's it wrong so consistently.

Frum can bend over and put ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Frum can bend over and put Pelosi's bill where the sun doesn't shine.

Payoff?

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/96140/

They all need to be ran out... (Below threshold)
914:

They all need to be ran out of town on the end of rusty pitchforks.

A new parable:A regu... (Below threshold)
RScott:

A new parable:
A regular fellow found himself in a human induced state of multiple contusions having been set upon by persons of no known ethnicity. His heavy moans soon drew the attention of a passing troop of Earth Wild Federation members who started to help, but then crossed the road and continued along since one of them noted removing the future cadaver would rob the local endangered scavengers of a prime food source. Next came a member of Code Taupe who also started to help, but then realized it might trigger a union grievance and besides the victim was wearing what was left of some desert camo pants. Finally a newly certified government health care service provider found the alleged victim. The provider person began to administer aid by first checking for proper certification of enrollment at minimum MFR-134a subpart b(1) requirements, but finding only an old azure cross card, had to stop and report the finding to the IRS. An ambulance was dispatched that afternoon, once the 2:45 break was complete, for recovery of the body. The estate was issued a fine for the improper enrollment and the body was held in refrigeration until the citation was paid along with the fine for unnecessary refrigeration of a non celebrity corpse.

Well, conservatives, the ba... (Below threshold)
Highlander:

Well, conservatives, the battle is over.

Remember, though, that in defeat that you fought hard to ensure that the poor would continue to go without health insurance, just like Jesus wanted you to.

Don't worry, there will be other chances to show your "savior" your complete disregard for the poor.

Highlander........shove it ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Highlander........shove it up your hypocritical ass. The fiscal train wreck is coming. How about putting your money were your mouth is.

Oh, and Highlander.....IT A... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Oh, and Highlander.....IT AIN'T "OVER". Not by a long shot. Keep drinking Nancy's kool aid.

10. Posted by Highlander - ... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

10. Posted by Highlander - Drop dead, soonest.

No one has the right to tell me that I am, upon penalty of prison or Government fine, required to either purchase health insurance or provide money I earned to support someone else that commodity.

Spare me your pious presumptions that it is the 'poor' that will continue to suffer because of conservative's actions. The politicians that wrote the bill bear that responsibility and you trying to say that 'conservatives' are responsible for any part of the travesty that was just rammed through the Hose and Senate is sheer projection on your part when they had absolutely no input into its construction.

The Democrat Party as a whole will rue this day and bill while remembering it as the high water mark of their political power.

PS...Hinderaker is... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

PS...

Hinderaker is correct and Frum is a pussy.

The problem with repeal or ... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

The problem with repeal or not funding the programs is that Obamacare is a death sentence for health insurance as we know it. Capital is going to rush from the industry as investors refuse to take the risk that it will be repealed.

The only hope is that there is such a wave in November that even the remaining Democratic officeholders in the House and Senate fear for their "safe" seats, and will vote with Republicans to override Obama's certain veto of repeal. That's the only way to avoid major irreparable damage to the health care system, and even that will take nearly a year to accomplish.

To the mental defectives who support this travesty, remember it when your mother is told, "No hip replacement or chemo at your age, lady, too expensive - but here are some pain pills, now go home and die quietly."

I see no justification under any circumstances for quoting David Frum.

Stupak's opponent has gaine... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Stupak's opponent has gained over 10,000 members and most are donating thru PayPay. Stupak is the Bart Simpson of politics. It used to be a show but now it's gone.

Payoff madeoff... Whens Bar... (Below threshold)
914:

Payoff madeoff... Whens Barry going to san quentin for a health care pep fest? He can guarantee them quality bars of generic soap under the new communist manifesto..


"Remember, though, that in defeat that you fought hard to ensure that the poor would continue to go without health insurance, just like Jesus wanted you to."


What rock did you crawl out from under sluggo?

Gee highlander, been a whil... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Gee highlander, been a while, weeks in not mistaken.

Funny you should appear and gloat now.

Do it while you can.

Then piss-off!

remember this highlander, i... (Below threshold)
southernsue:

remember this highlander, if you are a US citizen and you work, you will not be immune to the disastrous affects from this bill. we will all go down together, just like the titanic. the only survivors are our congress and senate critters who have healthcare plans that you and i will only dream about.

David Frumm needs to go bac... (Below threshold)
Mark L:

David Frumm needs to go back to Canada -- and preferably relocate in Quebec.

Seven years ago I would have said he needs to go to France, but they have been showing more cojones than the US since Sarkozy began leading them. French-Canada is the next best thing to 2003 France.

A realistic view? I'd say ... (Below threshold)
Alfonso Paulista:

A realistic view? I'd say that this:

"How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or - more exactly - with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?"

shows a much greater grasp of reality than this:

"The Democrats misinterpreted their electoral victories in 2006 and 2008 as a mandate for socialism."

Well, at the risk of bursti... (Below threshold)
Tsar Nicholas II:

Well, at the risk of bursting the author's bubble, if you're actually pontificating over whether David Frum (a journalist) or John Hinderaker (a blogger) should be considered some form of leader then you've already lost not only the argument but you've lost any semblance of a connection to political reality.

Here's a hint: Leaders in the political sense are those that actually hold or at least recently have held elected public offices.

If you're looking for a conservative leader, well, how about John Boehner, or Mitch McConnell, or Eric Cantor, or James Inhofe, or Bob McDonnell, etc., etc. etc.

#10.When we give t... (Below threshold)
mag:

#10.

When we give to the poor it is charity, but the government gives to the poor via our purses, it is out and out theft, remeber Thou shall not steal.

And speaking of Jesus..he said the poor will always be with us...meaning no matter what you do for some they will always be in the same situation.
And I will worry in the hereafter whether I gave enough to the poor, in this life keep your f'ing hands off my hard earned money!!!!!!!!!

And I will worry in... (Below threshold)
SteveP:

And I will worry in the hereafter whether I gave enough to the poor, in this life keep your f'ing hands off my hard earned money!!!!!!!!!

Anyone who equates heath coverage as a right only for those who can afford it are about as far from God as Hitler.

Furthermore, if you see healthcare as another form of "welfare" you're not only Godless, but stupid to boot.

If you buy heathcare on your own (without the benefit of getting it as an employee) you will pay around $1280 or more for your family in NY. Sound like a small amount? Still think anyone who can't afford that should drop dead?

"There but for the grace of God go I." Sorry it means nothing to you, and you can wax philosophically all you want about why you can't support this "bill" but the simple fact is you cannot support the idea of a world that is anything more than "survival of the fittest."

You people have gone very far in the last couple of days showing the world who you are.... and nobody wants any part of your callous, self-centered, racist, ignorant world.

Buh-bye, conservatives. Don't let the door hit you on the way to irrelevancy.

Steve,Excellent po... (Below threshold)
Highlander:

Steve,

Excellent post. Thanks!

-- Highlander

You're welcome, Highlander.... (Below threshold)
SteveP:

You're welcome, Highlander.

Good to know there are others on this site who are willing to debate the frightened, misinformed and downright neanderthalic - even if it's largely a futile effort.

Something tells me SteveP =... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Something tells me SteveP = Highlander...

Oh, and SteveP, "Buh-bye, conservatives. Don't let the door hit you on the way to irrelevancy."

BWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!1!!!11!!

I'll be quoting you on that come November 3rd.

You have absolutely no idea what a 'right' is, dumbass. For it to be a 'right', I would be able to choose to exercise or to NOT exercise that right; no one would be able to force me to exercise or to NOT exercise that 'right'; in fact, I would have to explain to no man my decision to exercise or to NOT exercise my 'right' other than to say "because I [email protected]!#ing felt like it!". That, Mr. Imbecile (SteveP) would be a 'right'. I can choose to exercise (OR NOT) free speech, religion, etc. and no one can force me either way; and I have to explain to no one my decision either way. Just try that with ObamaCare you braid dead waste of oxygen.

-syb

SYB,Guess what, id... (Below threshold)
SteveP:

SYB,

Guess what, idiot. You're right. It's not a right.

It's a moral obligation.

Don't think so? Well, nobody cares what you think anyway. The bill's passed and signed and, despite your whining, will be viewed positively by the time elections come.

As usual, the right is inevitably wrong about everything. If they weren't, they wouldn't have voted in a spoiled, ignorant man-child for eight years.

SteveP,So, numbnut... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

SteveP,

So, numbnuts, by your "logic" mankind has failed worldwide in this "moral obligation" for all of human history until the last hundred years or so.

One thing is for sure; it doesn't take an IQ above 60 to be a leftist. Arrogant and stupid is no way to go through life, SteveP.

btw, the 'spoiled,ignorant man-child' has only been in office for a little over a year.

I do hope that someday reality hits you hard enough that you realize how monumentally stupid what you currently believe is...assuming reality doesn't kill you first.




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