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Wow, I feel a trillion dollars in debt already

I for one welcome our new government overlords:

healthcare_chart.jpg

See how much simpler our health care choices will be!

obamacare_graph.jpg

And how inexpensive! Heck, it's almost like it's ... free!

A little earlier, HughS highlighted the bitter reaction of David Frum, who feels that the GOP just lost a major political battle by not caving in and compromising with Democrats on the health care bill. On the contrary, I think the GOP deserves our undying gratitude for finally showing some testicular fortitude and fighting the largest expansion of government power in our nation's history. Megan McArdle sums it up thusly:

Republicans and other opponents of the bill did their job on this; they persuaded the country that they didn't want this bill. And that mattered basically not at all. If you don't find that terrifying, let me suggest that you are a Democrat who has not yet contemplated what Republicans might do under similar circumstances ... If the GOP takes the legislative innovations of the Democrats and decides to use them, please don't complain that it's not fair. Someone could get seriously hurt, laughing that hard.

Imagine how much fun a Republican Congress could have "deeming" Presidential vetoes overridden, or using reconciliation to strip billions in pork payouts, earmarks, and "stimulus" spending from budgets. But enough fantasy. What the Democrats have just given us is an iron-clad guarantee that they have absolutely zero regard for the will of the American people. A clear majority of Americans oppose this health care reform plan, yet the Democrats shoved it through on a pure party-line vote. So much for Washington representing the will of the people.

ramit.JPG

Thankfully those who occupy offices on Capitol Hill do not do so permanently.

But maybe there's something even bigger that Democrats have failed to consider. Americans love to blame the government for their problems. Really, are there any private enterprises more disliked by average people than the Social Security Administration, the US Postal Service, and the IRS? If ObamaCare is actually implemented, every missed diagnosis, every staph infection, every paperwork snafu, every denial of coverage, every fine incorrectly levied by the IRS -- all of it will be blamed on the government. On the Democrats. On Barack Obama. Think about that. Is that the kind of legacy you'd want?

So I'm really not depressed right now. There's going to be a lot of excitement during the next few weeks as Senate Republicans attempt to block the "fixes" approved by the House of Representatives from actually becoming part of the Senate health bill, as conservative scholars prepare to challenge the constitutionality of a Federal health insurance mandate, and as the legacy media starts to actually explore the Senate bill (now that it is safe to do so) and unpack all the unpleasant little surprises that it contains. Once that starts to happen, look for public support for ObamaCare -- and President Obama himself -- to plunge even further.

I can't wait.


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Comments (43)

The "single wall streeter" ... (Below threshold)
Imhotep:

The "single wall streeter" earned more than I did last year and I'm a "surgical sub-specialist"!!!!

My take home pay will continue to decrease, so I will begin to restrict my work hours and look for other career options. So glad to be 40 years old, but my colleagues are not as young and motivated to find other lines of work.

Oh well. Way to go American Voters, you deserved what you have asked for!

This is what you get when y... (Below threshold)
914:

This is what you get when you cross community agitatin with unaffirming action. Mix in a lot of race baiting and shake it all about.

Abject failure on every level.

The patient (A) reaches for... (Below threshold)
Mike G in Corvallis:

The patient (A) reaches for the government cheese (B) which jiggles a lever (C) that leverages a buyout of a bankrupt investment house (D) that saves or creates two million jobs (E) which go to SEIU thugs (F) who beat the patient into unconsciousness (G) while the IRS steals his wallet (H).

I think Barry just got off ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

I think Barry just got off the phone with Timmy Geithner. The order was "start printing more money".

As businesses start tallying up how much more this is going to cost them in employee benefits, look for a big LEAP in hiring.

Wow, I feel a tri... (Below threshold)
rightsaidfred:
Wow, I feel a trillion dollars in debt already

I'm glad it hurts. You put me 2 trillion in debt with the stupid war in Iraq.

"As businesses start tallyi... (Below threshold)
914:

"As businesses start tallying up how much more this is going to cost them in employee benefits, look for a big LEAP in hiring."

Yep, Barrys got it all figured out. And the more he figures the worse it all gets. Oh well, just so he and his enablers get thier cut, fuck the rest of America.

I swear we ought to move the center of power out of the DC stinkhole to someplace like Bismark and start the fuck over.

Actually, its a bit over $7... (Below threshold)

Actually, its a bit over $713 billion
http://costofwar.com/

And this boondoggle is going to cost a lot more than the 2.4 trillion your side will admit to.

"Wow, I feel a trillion dol... (Below threshold)
914:

"Wow, I feel a trillion dollars in debt already"


I thought it wa 22? Oh well, since its monopoly money what the hell.

I thought Barry was supposed to be of a higher level of political thinking? A bridgebuilder, a river crosser, the best hawaii had to offer? Well, thats the last time I dont vote for a fairy tale filled with unicorns radicalized by mid-eastern ideology.


rightsaidfred - 2 trillion?... (Below threshold)
Marc:

rightsaidfred - 2 trillion? Not much on mathematics are you?

Or honesty.

Once that starts t... (Below threshold)
SpideyTerry:
Once that starts to happen, look for public support for ObamaCare -- and President Obama himself -- to plunge even further.

Who knew that was possible at this point?

Actually, its a bit over $713 billion

Well, that's an interesting number for a war fought about seven years. Say, how much was Obama's stimulus package that was passed just last year? "$787 billion," you say? My, fascinating...

I'm glad it hurts.... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:
I'm glad it hurts. You put me 2 trillion in debt with the stupid war in Iraq.

Which stupid war in Iraq are you talking about? You mean the one authorized by Senators Biden, Clinton, Edwards, Feinstein, Kerry, Reid, and 23 other Democratic Senators? The one authorized by 82 Democratic members of the House? That stupid war?

11. iwogisdead - "Which stu... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

11. iwogisdead - "Which stupid war in Iraq are you talking about? You mean the one authorized by Senators Biden, Clinton, Edwards, Feinstein, Kerry, Reid, and 23 other Democratic Senators? The one authorized by 82 Democratic members of the House? That stupid war?"

Well said! Excellent point. The only thing I'd have added is something along the lines of, "Now tell me, how may Republicans supported this health care abortion?" Oh, and maybe I'd have called rightsaidfred a schmuck and dick-head just because I'm kind of piss-off this morning.

Which stupid war in Iraq ar... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Which stupid war in Iraq are you talking about? You mean the one authorized by Senators Biden, Clinton, Edwards, Feinstein, Kerry, Reid, and 23 other Democratic Senators? The one authorized by 82 Democratic members of the House? That stupid war?

Maybe he meant the one that Obama and Biden proudly took credit for winning? Makes about as much sense as anything else those jackasses say.

I wonder how many small-bus... (Below threshold)
wolfwalker:

I wonder how many small-business owners with 51-100 employees woke up this morning and started figuring out how they can lay off enough employees to get below the 50-employee threshold, and still stay in business.

Now the Democrat Party and ... (Below threshold)
Roy:

Now the Democrat Party and Obama not only own health care, but also Medicare/Medicaid. You know, it'd be a shame if anything happened to your nice programs.

@14 - maybe all of them?</p... (Below threshold)
Roy:

@14 - maybe all of them?

And what would the GOP and ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

And what would the GOP and the implacable opponents of this bill like wizbang, do for the surge in unrestrained healthcare premium increases, 'the doughnut hole' of senior prescription coverage, the denial of coverage for prexisting conditions, the lifetime coverage caps, the unfair competition from foreign companies who don't have to foot expensive private healthcare plans, the disastrous bankruptcies etc tht happen when someone gets sick, (the list is long); and the answer whenever Republicans are given the chance is absolutely nothing. The GOP have always done zero when in office, to lower the enomous amount America pays for healthcare form their GNP and their personal budgets, since they are bought by private health insurance companies.

Seniors, remember how hard the GOP fought the introduction of Medicare in the early 60's calling it, as Reagan said then, in his radio braoadcasts, the introduction of 'statism and socialized medicine'.

Steve C. - whatever the GOP... (Below threshold)
Roy:

Steve C. - whatever the GOP had done in the past is irrelevant now. Obama and the Dems own health care, Medicare, Medicaid, you name it. Any problems in the future are going to be totally blamed on them. It's now a "Hooverism".

17. Steve Crickmore - "And ... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

17. Steve Crickmore - "And what would the GOP and the implacable opponents of this bill like wizbang, do for the surge in unrestrained healthcare premium increases,"

You haven't been paying attention, have you Steve? Tort reform, inter-state insurance sales to increase competition, reduction of government mandates. Why don't you tell us why none of those sounds familiar to you?

"the unfair competition from foreign companies who don't have to foot expensive private healthcare plans"

Now that's a ripe pile of shit. Are you trying to tell us that our government's soon to be new law mandating even higher per employee insurance costs is going to make us more competitive with European companies? Whatever you're smoking, I want some.

"...and the answer whenever Republicans are given the chance is absolutely nothing."

Never went to the GOP's website and read their health care reform proposal did you? Why should we waste our time trying to discuss something with someone who refuses to investigate the other sides proposals?

"...as Reagan said then, in his radio braoadcasts, the introduction of 'statism and socialized medicine'."

And where exactly are we this morning? Wake up and smell what you're shoveling, Steve.

Yes, just as I suppose afte... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Yes, just as I suppose after frugal Dem admistrations, Cheney and Reagan's high praising of the "deficits don't matter", governing philosophy is irrelevant to their legendary status as true, red blooded, fiscal conservatives.

The topic is the healthcare... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

The topic is the healthcare monstrosity passed yesterday, and Steve Crickmore tries to defend it by twice mentioning Ronald Reagan. Sheeez.

Hey, Steve Crickmore, you don't have to worry about Reagan anymore--he won't be running for office again.

I realize the GOP are brin... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

I realize the GOP are bringing some proposals to the table now, when they are out of office and can't be effective, but where were they on healthcare when in office. As I recall their only real iniative to lower prices and increase coverage was the horrendously expensive expansion of the medicare prescription drug plan,by Bush in December, 2003.

I for one would like to tha... (Below threshold)

I for one would like to thank my congresswoman Marcy Kraptur for caving (she really wanted this all along). Of course she's an old hag who won't even be alive when the financial chaos engulfs us and cronic unemployment shatters the dreams of my children, your children and her great great grand children.
The jug eared chain smoking lush MIGHT be around for all of that but then again he doesn't live the healthy life style he expects US to live so we can afford to wait the long waits rationed care necessitates......then again he won't have to live with the crappy health care his tyrannical congress forced on us so maybe the jug eared chain smoking lush will be OK.

A house of lies built on a foundation of deceit.

The Left's main "defense" o... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

The Left's main "defense" of this multi-TRILLION $$$ abortion is:
"Bush and the Republicans spent lots of money too"

Stevie and the boyz don't care if THIS Bill aborts our nation...as long as they can point to something Bush did too.

2011, when the Bush tax cuts expire, and the taxes from THIS piece of shit kick in is going to be a too late wake up call for many. Though Stevie will sleep through it, of course.

Crickmore, you dope -... (Below threshold)
apb:

Crickmore, you dope -

Kuttner is just another demented progressive that is too simple to understand deficits in relationship to economic growth. The current environment is still slow-to-no growth, unemployment is unabated, tax receipts are down at all government levels, and projected deficits will double the current national debt in under 10 years.

Bush and the R's had their fiscal dopery in expanding Medicare - The Jug-Eared Douche and company are criminalizing the whole enterprise. You DO know that part of the savings comes from stealing over $50B from 'anticipated' Social Security increases?

These crooks make Madoff look like a saint.

With Obamacare being forced... (Below threshold)

With Obamacare being forced down our throats, now is not the time to shrivel away. Now is the time to stand up and fight back harder then ever before. Will you join us on a campaign to DESTROY THE MOUTHPIECE OF OBAMA'S SOCIALIST AGENDA, THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA? WE ARE IN A FIGHT FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY, A FIGHT FOR OUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE. Join the fight here, http://sosssn.blogspot.com/

"Seniors, remember how hard... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"Seniors, remember how hard the GOP fought the introduction of Medicare in the early 60's calling it, as Reagan said then, in his radio braoadcasts, the introduction of 'statism and socialized medicine'."

And Reagan was right.

Medicare is very popular right now. How could it not be? Everyone likes a program when they are at the top or middle of a Pyramid Scheme. For the rest of us at the bottom of the pyramid, it's not going to be very popular.

How many trillions in 'entitlements' are going to have to be paid? Where are we going to get the money for them?

This is the Fanny/Freddy housing bubble all over again. The bill is coming due but just keep burying your head.

Bite your tongue Crickmore!... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Bite your tongue Crickmore! St Teddy of Splash backed that bill!

What's another trillion dol... (Below threshold)
Tsar Nicholas II:

What's another trillion dollars among friends?

Actually, its a bit over $7... (Below threshold)
rightsaidfred.:

Actually, its a bit over $713 billion
http://costofwar.com/

And this boondoggle is going to cost a lot more than the 2.4 trillion your side will admit to.

------------

Actually the true cost of the war, Which republicans will not admit too is closer to 3 trillion.

http://boingboing.net/2008/02/27/three-trillion-dolla.html

I do like how you buy the governmnet figures on Iraq, but not health care. Seems like you think the government does a damn fine job of accounting when it is for policies you support.

Of course if all the Deemoc... (Below threshold)

Of course if all the Deemocrats who VOTED for the war didn't pivot and invest in defeat for politcal gain we might (please God) already be drawing down. But you had Murtha, that addled light weight Durbin leading the charge while all the rest were posturing as if they were always against it. Ah shucks, it's not too bad a war now that the new warlords are asses, right?

Maybe we just need to get in line and goosestep for the jug eared chain smoking effete nutty professor?

rightsaidfraid,Josep... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

rightsaidfraid,
Joseph Stiglitz came up with numbers by going beyond the upfront government expenditures. He added up speculative numbers to account for equipment replacement due to wear, the cost of veteran (VA) support in the future, lost wages for the wounded and KIA soldiers etc. Even loss of productivity due to a lack of government spending in other sectors was thrown in to the mix. The irony being that in one part of the report they are criticizing deficit spending while in another calculating costs that could only be achieved by other instances of deficit spending. It also factored in the assumption that the war was the direct cause of the rise in oil costs, from ~$25 a barrel to ~$100. As if it was a closed system where only America consumed oil...

Now, the upfront costs of Obamacare admitted to by the Democrats is 2.4 trillion... if we apply Stiglitz's methods to this, how expensive with the Total Cost of Ownership be?

actually the cost to the pe... (Below threshold)
Ron:

actually the cost to the people both in taxes and personally and corporately, will jump to about 1 trillion nationally anually(supporting the "I feel a trillion dollars in debt already".

Just throwing a number out there. Maybe it will be 2 trillion. Lets see how the lies fly around about that one.

Joseph Stiglitz c... (Below threshold)
rightsaidfred:
Joseph Stiglitz came up with numbers by going beyond the upfront government expenditures. He added up speculative numbers to account for equipment replacement due to wear, the cost of veteran (VA) support in the future, lost wages for the wounded and KIA soldiers etc. Even loss of productivity due to a lack of government spending in other sectors was thrown in to the mix. The irony being that in one part of the report they are criticizing deficit spending while in another calculating costs that could only be achieved by other instances of deficit spending. It also factored in the assumption that the war was the direct cause of the rise in oil costs, from ~$25 a barrel to ~$100. As if it was a closed system where only America consumed oil...

Now, the upfront costs of Obamacare admitted to by the Democrats is 2.4 trillion... if we apply Stiglitz's methods to this, how expensive with the Total Cost of Ownership be?

Actually according to the CBO this will shave 1 trillion off the deficit. So what's it going to be are you going to admit the CBO is wrong and that Iraq costs way more than you admit, or are you going to admit the CBO was right and that 1 trillion will be saved by the health care overhaul?

I'm guessing you will go with a third path and claim the CBO is only right when it suits what you want to believe.

I'm guessing Fred here is g... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

I'm guessing Fred here is going to copy and paste what he's going to respond to while ignoring what it says.

Oh wait ....

I'll take a more honest approach here than Fred will and say the Iraq war probably cost more than what the past admin is willing to admit, but less than Stiglitz' bloated figures. And I'll bet you know where I'm headed with that. This health care plan won't shave any where near a trillion off the deficit at ANY point in its life. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. When the CBO gets the rest of the "plan" and all the little amendments and the bloat and the pork and the whole ball of wax, we're going to read the newest headlines:

Healthcare Bill Will "Unexpectedly" Cost More Than Originally Anticipated, says CBO

I'm guessing Fred... (Below threshold)
rightsaidfred.:
I'm guessing Fred here is going to copy and paste what he's going to respond to while ignoring what it says.

And you'd be wrong as usual.


I'll take a more honest approach here than Fred will and say the Iraq war probably cost more than what the past admin is willing to admit, but less than Stiglitz' bloated figures. And I'll bet you know where I'm headed with that. This health care plan won't shave any where near a trillion off the deficit at ANY point in its life. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. When the CBO gets the rest of the "plan" and all the little amendments and the bloat and the pork and the whole ball of wax, we're going to read the newest headlines:

So instead of 3 trilion that stigletz estimates or the 1 trillion or so the CBO is now estimating we meet in the middle at 2 trillion. Thanks Republicans for putting this country 2 trillion in the hole.


rightsaidfred: "I'm gu... (Below threshold)
Marc:

rightsaidfred: "I'm guessing you will go with a third path and claim the CBO is only right when it suits what you want to believe. "

Would you except a "forth road?" A road that leads to examples of how inaccurate the CBO is regardless of personal beliefs:

1.

When Medicare was instituted in 1965, there was no Congressional Budget Office. Instead, in 1967 House Ways and Means analysts estimated the cost of the program. Medicare, they predicted, would cost $12 billion in 1990. (1) They were wrong--by a staggering factor of 10. The actual spending in 1990 was $110 billion. (2) And Medicare costs continue to skyrocket. Through the first 9 months of 2009, Medicare has cost taxpayers $314 billion and that price tag continues to grow by 10%.
2.
In 1965, the House Ways and Means Committee estimated that Medicare Part A, the hospital insurance part of the Medicare program, would cost $9 billion in 1990. (4) Once again, they were wrong. The actual cost of Part A in 1990 was $67 billion. (5) In 1994, the analyst responsible for the severe underestimate admitted that even when accounting for inflation, "the actual [Part A] experience was 165% higher than the estimate."
3.
In 1988, the projected 1993 cost of the Medicare Home Care Benefit was $4 billion. (7) The actual 1993 cost was $10 billion.
4.
When the Social Security Act of 1935 was being debated in Congress, the cost projections for the program extended all the way to 1980. At that time, it was estimated that the federal government would pay out $4 billion in Social Security payments in 1980. (9) In reality it paid out a staggering $108 billion.
5.
The Medicaid DHS Program is used by states to aid hospitals that treat a high number of Medicaid and uninsured patients. In 1987, Congress estimated that the cost the program would be $1 billion in 1992.13 The actual cost was 17 times larger than the congressional estimate. Medicaid DHS cost taxpayers $17 billion in 1992.
Pssst...the government estimate for Medicaid DHS cost was off by 1,600%.

If the CBO estimate for the Senate health care bill is off by the same percentage, then the price of reform may be as high as $14.4 trillion.

Would you except ... (Below threshold)
rightsaidfred:
Would you except a "forth road?" A road that leads to examples of how inaccurate the CBO is regardless of personal beliefs:

I'd say that falls under road number one: Which if the CBO is inaccurate, then the cost of the Iraq war is far higher than Republicans on this blog claim.

Most are trying to have it both ways saying the CBO is wrong about health care but right about the cost of war in Iraq.

I'm not real happy about the Iraq war debt I have to pay.

Fred,My position is ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Fred,
My position is that the CBO is always low in its numbers.
My point to you, is that if we apply the same math to Obamacare that you apply to Iraq, then the total cost will go well above.
But I don't think that's what you want to hear, so you'd rather continue standing up strawmen and calling them mine.

rightsaidfred - "Which ... (Below threshold)
Marc:

rightsaidfred - "Which if the CBO is inaccurate, then the cost of the Iraq war is far higher than Republicans on this blog claim. "


First of all, there's no question to the inaccuracies of the CBO as I've already outlined.

Secondly, the CBO never "scored" any Iraq war appropriations bills or resolutions.

What they did do was estimate costs for an Iraq war prior to the start of the conflict on September 30, 2002:

* Initial deployment of troops: $9 billion to $13 billion
* Conducting the war: $6 billion to $9 billion per month
* Returning forces to US: $5 billion to $7 billion
* Temporary occupation of Iraq: $1 billion to $4 billion per month

To date the Iraq war has lasted 84 months.

Initial deployment $9 billion
Conduct of war = $6 billion X 84 months.
Temp occupation = $1 billion X 84 months.

Notice I used the lower number in each case and the total is a bit less than $600 billion.

Using the larger estimates the cost is a bit over 1 trillion.

And BTW, you can take the Stiglitz numbers is sick them where the sun fails to illuminate your colon.

We're talking the CBO, not some "Noble prize winning" (along with obummer, yaser arafat, gore and carter) economist.

I think Frum comes in for a... (Below threshold)
Sean P:

I think Frum comes in for a lot of unfair criticism on this site (he did back McCain, after all, so he's hardly the equivilent of Christopher Buckley or David Brooks). Still, he is way, way off base on this one and objectively, verifiably so.

Look at it this way: before the approval numbers for Obamacare cratered, he could have passed his bill with at least a handful of GOP moderates if he had dropped the public option early on. Hell, Olympia Snowe voted to send the bill out of committee and was trying to leverage that very concession but couldn't get it. By the time the public option was finally dropped from the Obamacare Senate bill, its popularity had cratered so badly Snow could no longer support it.

Oh, and why was it dropped? Because of Lieberman. So, Snowe got no concessions of any import for acting bipartisan, and the public option concession was made to an "independant Democrat" who needed the option dropped as a fig leaf for his re-election chances in 2012 (and to help the insurance industy in his home state).

Long story short, it was the Tea Partiers who eliminated the worst feature from Obamacare. Had the GOP gone the Frum route they would have been unlikely to even receive that much, plus the stink of failure would have been on both parties, not exclusively on the Democrats.

Steve C:Medicare a... (Below threshold)
epador:

Steve C:

Medicare and then Medicaid are excellent demonstrations as to what's wrong with the new health care bill. Thanks for bringing that up.

It was originally opposed by the AMA (which at that time, as opposed to now, represented a fair portion of what active physicians providing the main portion of patient care desired) until the short-sighted bastards decided to cash in on the government money in the short term at the price of bankrupting financially and morally the health care system and physicians in the long term.

Yeah, but who has estimated... (Below threshold)
Ron:

Yeah, but who has estimated how many people will loose they're jobs while business cut back positions trying to cope. Here is another one. How much lying will be done to keep the actual job loss from Obamacare from the general public. Odumbacare may cost very little in the way of increasing the deficit but it is going to cost the economy trillions other wise, which the bumble-ocrats never ever believe will happen.
The funniest thing is they never understand when they get they're stupid @--es voted out.

We owe them a payback of no freaking compromise after we take back the government from them.




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