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Mixed Messages

According to the Obama administration, there are certain things that one should not have to provide documentation to prove. Among them:

  • That you are in the United States legally
  • That you are old enough to obtain birth control or an abortion without parental consent (or even knowledge)
  • That you are the voter registered to vote

On the other hand, there are certain things where you absolutely should provide documentation to prove. Among these:

  • That you possess health insurance
  • That you are old enough to buy alcohol or tobacco
  • That you have honestly reported every bit of income (unless, of course, you're part of the Obama administration)

Here's an elegant solution: when pressed for documentation, simply claim to be an illegal alien.

It's a bit of a sad commentary when it's actually more advantageous to be an illegal alien than an American citizen, but those circumstances are becoming more and more common...


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Comments (30)

"It's a bit of a sad commen... (Below threshold)
Chakademus:

"It's a bit of a sad commentary when it's actually more advantageous to be an illegal alien than an American citizen, but those circumstances are becoming more and more common..."
That's not correct. By no stretch of the imagination is it advantageous, and saying so is just spin. Knowing any moment you may be caught and deported has to be scary. Even legal aliens, who play by the rules are very uncomfortable with the immigration system because it is so arbitrary and the atmosphere is so poisonous for immigrants, legal or otherwise.
Be careful what you wish for. One impact of illegal aliens having to provide documentation to prove status is that EVERYONE will have to provide documentation to prove they are not illegal. That would be putting unprecedented requirements on 300+ million people just to squeeze about 12 million. It's like just to live and walk the street one will have to make sure he has his 'papers'. If you or your kid is walking the street and say you forgot your wallet at home, you can be arrested for not having documentation, and have to go through the hassle of proving who you are. Does this sound familiar? Does it remind you of a certain European country some decades ago that we sadly read about? Are you willing to live in a country like that?

I suspect this will only wo... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

I suspect this will only work if you are the "right kind" of illegal alien, and if you have proof of the correct political positions or grievances.

Chaka, I didn't say overall... (Below threshold)

Chaka, I didn't say overall it was better, just that there were circumstances -- which are growing.

Here's an example: in Massachusetts, there's a movement to grant in-state tuition to state colleges for illegal aliens who live in Massachusetts. Meanwhile, a New Hampshire student whose parents both work in Massachusetts and pay Massachusetts taxes would pay the out-of-state tuition rate. That student would be better off if he or she was simply an illegal alien, instead of an American citizen.

J.

I agree with the post, but ... (Below threshold)
Kelly:

I agree with the post, but I'll admit I'd be at a loss if some law officer stopped me on the street and asked me to prove I was in the country legally. Are we supposed to carry laminated birth certificate or something?

Chak,You realize t... (Below threshold)
MunDane:

Chak,

You realize that as a lawabiding person, you have to provide ID when asked by law enforcement? That such ID (Driver's License, usually, but other kinds exist) is accepted as proof of citizenship in the bill you are spinning? That legal immigrants are SUPPOSED to keep their 'green' cards on their person at all times?

Knowing any mom... (Below threshold)
Knowing any moment you may be caught and deported has to be scary.
Where does that happen? Other than in Arizona, I mean?
MunDane,What you s... (Below threshold)
Chakademus:

MunDane,

What you say may be correct upon just cause, like at the scene of an accident or something but the new law mandates that police ask for papers solely based on suspicion! In other words if a cop does not like something about you, anything, he has an excuse to hassle you and there's nothing you can do about it, the law gives him that authority! In the land of the free!

Your "on the other hand" le... (Below threshold)

Your "on the other hand" left out a few things, like government buildings, airplanes, etc.

Am I the only person who thinks there is a great deal of hypocrisy in the double standard that says you don't have to provide any ID in order to vote, but you do have to show ID if you want to visit any of the people for whom you voted?

Our politicians will accept votes from all comers, but make their constituents jump through hoops to be heard after the election.

"It's a bit of a sad com... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"It's a bit of a sad commentary when it's actually more advantageous to be an illegal alien than an American citizen, but those circumstances are becoming more and more common..."

It makes more sense if you're supposed to think of being American as being something horrid and shameful, which you have to atone for by being willing to completely abase yourself at the PC altar and give up all your goods, rights, and priveleges to those who are more 'needy', as defined by the people who feel incredible guilt over anyone's success when others have so little.

The message is not mixed. You have to expiate their guilt through your sacrifices.

Chakademus: "Knowing any... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Chakademus: "Knowing any moment you may be caught and deported has to be scary."

It's the same scary feeling crooks get when they break into houses, or steal cars. Any moment you may be caught.

What to do???...what to do???

Not steal cars? Not break into houses? Not break into America??

Nah.

I agree with this post, I s... (Below threshold)
mag:

I agree with this post, I see for a fact that illegal or legal aliens get so much more than we citizens....I have seen it over and over and many people around my area are always complaining about it.

UpChuckaDemoThere,... (Below threshold)
epador:

UpChuckaDemo

There, I spelled your name correctly for you.

The question was raised on ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

The question was raised on the Sunday talk shows as to how Arizona could enforce its new law without violating the 4th Amendment's protection against unreasonable search or the 14th Amendment's equal protection under the law.

Funny thing is that the Supreme court has already addressed this issue and found that randomly stopping all motorists at some location and checking them for signs of intoxication passes constitutional muster. In Arizona it's now possible for police to check to see if people are in the country legally at such random stops.

Yes, this will cause stress among those who are in the country illegally, but if that is reason enough to overturn the law then it's also reason enough to overturn the laws that cause stress among those who don't have a valid driver licenses, those who drive impaired, and those who are transport drugs and other contraband.

Yes the Constitution gives the US Congress the exclusive right to make immigration law, but Arizona is only enforcing that law. Where in the Constitution does it say that states are prohibited from enforcing federal law?

Interesting post highlighti... (Below threshold)
Hank:

Interesting post highlighting the [lack of] consistency of liberal thinking.

It is amazing to think there are effectively no limits on killing a not-yet-born human, but try smoking while pregnant and all hell breaks loose.

I'm a liberal, but if I was... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

I'm a liberal, but if I was conservative I would still have the following concerns regarding Arizona's immigration law:

The Governor said that it will be enforced without regard to race, color of skin, accent, ect. Does that mean if a caucasian is just standing in front of a 7-11 for too long, that they would be stopped and asked to provide proof citizenship? And if you are not carrying it could you be locked up until your identity can be verified? Do you trust the police enough to use this power? I'm not sure all the details of the law, but we need to look at it closely to make sure that it can not easily be abused. I think police already have the ability to ask for an ID card so there may not be any real difference. The question that needs to be answered is does the law give the police extra powers that can be applied to legal citizens such as you and I.

Chaka, Do you k... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

Chaka,

Do you know any legal Immigrants? My parents always carried their green cards (which by the way is not green) with them along with their drivers license. When they became citizens they turned those documents in. When they applied for a job they had to provide proof of citizenship. When I apply for any job I provide my naturalization paper. I need to take my either my Naturalization papers and or US Passport to get a drivers licenses.

My wife caries her Green card with her everywhere she goes.

So if you are here legally then Life is fine.

Goto any other country in the world and you need to provide proof you are in that country legal when asked.
At least the countries I have visited and lived in, (japan, Mexico, UK, France, Singapore, Korea,Philippines).

The worst thing for honest immigrants are illegal ones. They obtain false paperwork which leads everyone to look on us with suspicion. They lower our standard of living by under cutting jobs.

Then you have issues where illegals arrive through paying for transposition with their body and then become drug mules, prostitutes and other things far worse.

Also you have those of us who are pissed that when we go through the process legally . We pay money , get medically tested, background checks , (then those nice questions they ask you when you sponsor your wife) and the sometimes decade wait to get family members here. All to see someone sneak into the USA and jump ahead.

Another example that but as an example you sponsor someone into this country and they go on the public trust you must start to pay for them.
However an illegal can come here and get all the social services they want.

Not only do they come here illegally but they are proud of it. You have the Mexican Government giving guides on how to game our system.
Why because they like the flow of US dollars to Mexico.

At the same time Mexico encourages the breaking of US Immigration laws they prosecute offenders of Mexican immigration to the full extent in some extreme cases killing non Mexican who cross their souther border.

However some people do get through Mexico souther boarder and make it to the north. Those guys doing jobs Americans wont do all the way from El Salvador, let put our hands tog her for MS-13.
Being form the West Indies I would be remiss if I did not talk about our contribution tot Drug war the Jamaican Posse ( who are also doing jobs Americans won;t do)


There are differences between legal and illegal immigration.
I am pissed because honest people who come here legally and do the right thing are screwed over because of illegals and their useful idiots that make lives of Legal Immigrant and naturalized American citizens lives hard.

BTW if you saw we cannot deport them. I recall that we used a full tactical squad to send a cuban boy back home.

rant over

It is funny that you have t... (Below threshold)
Matt:

It is funny that you have to show positive ID to rent a DVD but not to vote, or run for president.

In my experience the police will generally stop and harass anyone on any pretext when they feel like it. Sometimes it is legitmate and has resulted in finding a criminal, other times it is pure harassment because the officer was in a pissy mood. Both of my daughters have been pulled over for what appeared to be driving while blond (DWB). Gatherings of teens in public get hassled constantly, whether they look like a budding riot or not.

Most of the potential police behavior everyone seems worried about from this bill already occurs. It is mostly dependent on what the local community will put up with. If you don't want people arbitrarily stopped on the street, don't put up with it! Let your local governments and police departments know it won't be tolerated.

Finally, this behavior is already in place and legally sanctioned in the southwest. Daily I have to drive through a checkpoint manned by CBP where I get a once over to see if I look like a citizen. If I didn't I'd get asked for papers proving my legal status. I also get my vehicle sniffed over by a dog looking for drugs too. All of this has already been ok'd by the Supreme Court.

Since illegals dont like th... (Below threshold)
914:

Since illegals dont like the law they can always vote out the people passing them. And of course since they would be voting demoncrat they dont even need a bothersome little ID to do so. Right! Barry, Harry and Nancy!

BTW, a good place to check for ID's or lack thereof would be these immigration protests. Probably net hundreds there.

I just got this in the mail... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

I just got this in the mail:

Federal Job Orientation Seminar
Apply for Current Government Positions
Average Federal Salary including Benefits over $30 per hr.
Must be a U.S. Citizen, Convicted felons may not apply
I wonder how they will know if your not a U S Citizen?


Dam racist Federal Government! I am going to tell Obama about this violation of Civil rights! Oh wait would BHO be the one in charge?

#12 - epadouchenozzle... (Below threshold)
max:

#12 - epadouchenozzle

There, I spelled your name correctly for you.

Don't get me wrong, I am no... (Below threshold)
Chakademus:

Don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of illegal immigration. No right thinking person should be. However in our haste to prosecute(persecute?)illegal immigrants, we must be careful that we do not create undue discomfort for or take away the rights of law abiding people. There are certain circumstances where one needs to show ID. Voting, running for office come to mind, however for a police officer to have the right to stop and bother you for no other reason than 'suspicion' is unacceptable and un-American.

I also maintain that the rhetoric that is generated when this immigration issue is discussed is poisoning the atmosphere to such an extent that otherwise law abiding immigrants are made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. Can we have a little civility, people?

I also maintain... (Below threshold)
I also maintain that the rhetoric that is generated when this immigration issue is discussed is poisoning the atmosphere to such an extent that otherwise law abiding immigrants are made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome.
Maybe that's because of the facile way amnesty apologists like to leave the word ILLEGAL out of their commentary on this issue, or insist that amnesty opponents' focus on that word is merely a fig leaf for racism.

That tactic accomplishes nothing except making law-abiding immigrants uncomfortable and unwelcome, and the apologists do it on purpose.

Civility is overrated. Accu... (Below threshold)

Civility is overrated. Accuracy is far more important.

"Can we have a little civil... (Below threshold)
914:

"Can we have a little civility, people?"

When the kidnappers and cartel murderers start acting civil then yes.

I think we are being persecuted by the all the illegals not the reverse.

2010 can't come soon enough... (Below threshold)
Vinny:

2010 can't come soon enough !!!!

If we not weak up from this nightmare soon the US will desist to be as the country that our ancestors and generation want it to be...

In the state of Texas, you ... (Below threshold)

In the state of Texas, you are required to carry some kind of identification when in public.
If you're stopped you'd better have it, or face receiving a ticket.

Can we have a litt... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:
Can we have a little civility, people
Perhaps...
Does this sound familiar? Does it remind you of a certain European country some decades ago that we sadly read about? Are you willing to live in a country like that?

...if you didn't begin your visit here by violating Godwin's law, your plea for civility wouldn't be met by a series of chuckles.

The illegals will simply ... (Below threshold)
MF:

The illegals will simply relocate to another state where they dont check IDs

Add to the list"On ... (Below threshold)
MF:

Add to the list
"On the other hand, there are certain things where you absolutely should provide documentation to prove. Among these:"
automatically become a US citizen when the individual promises to re-elect Obama

The illegals will... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:
The illegals will simply relocate to another state where they dont check IDs

Sounds good. Then the next state when they become the world kidnap capital of the world.
Celebrate their status.
Will ask federal Government for help
Change their laws

Federalism at work.




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