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Desperately Avoiding Katrina

The Politico is reporting that the Obama administration is in something of a "P.R. panic" about the British Petroleum rig explosion and subsequent oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Signs of that panic were made open today when Robert Gibbs singled out Fox News' Wendell Goler to make the point that his network (Fox) had the temerity to let Michael Brown make inflammatory statements on Neil Cavuto's show. Brown accused the Obama administration of letting the Federal disaster response linger so that the increased damage would give the Obama administration an excuse to ban permanently off shore drilling. I don't believe Brown's speculation, but Gibbs took the bait and made himself look stupid (again).

Gibbs, responding to an oil spill query from Goler, called the network out for failing to challenge Brown, now a conservative Colorado radio host.

"I watched Fox yesterday -- you open both the double doors -- and waaah! -- Here I am," said Gibbs.

As Goler tried to calm Gibbs down, the press secretary began talking about "the special and unique interview with Michael Brown, who for those who weren't let in on the big secret... intimated on Fox -- and it wasn't, didn't appear to be, pushed back on real hard -- that this spill was leaked on purpose in order for us to undo decisions."

"You should call headquarters," he told Goler, and talk to "whoever makes the decision to put people like that on."

Has Gibbs ever offered that advice to any other network? Olberman? Maddow? Nevermind. Matthews? But about the public relations panic that is allegedly consuming the White House, Glenn Thrush at Politico offers this:

Hope and change was Obama's headline message in 2008, but those atop his campaign have always said that it was Obama's cool competence -- exemplified by his level-headed handling of the financial meltdown during the campaign's waning days -- that sealed the deal with independents and skeptical Democrats. The promise of rational, responsive and efficient government is Obama's brand, his justification for bigger and bolder federal interventions and, ultimately, his rationale for a second term.

So there was a "little bit of panic," according to one administration official, when White House aides sensed the oil spill narrative getting away from them last week. The White House was particularly alarmed by the rash of stories comparing the Obama administration's initial response with President George W. Bush's sluggish response in the wake of Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

Katrina was one of the first issues Obama seized upon after his election to the Senate in 2004 -- and he made a highly publicized visit to New Orleans during the campaign, using the Bush administration response as a metaphor for incompetent and uncaring government.

... Dana Perino, the last White House press secretary under Bush, even sounded sympathetic to Obama's plight. "I don't think this is comparable to Katrina," she said. "But ... they are learning just how hard it is to get situational awareness during a crisis. ... Things are going to overtake them. They are learning this right now."

A timeline of the White House response shows the difficulty federal officials initially had getting a clear picture of the disaster.

The Obama administration should be thankful that they are getting their information from BP and not a Ray Nagin or Kathleen Blanco. But I think the White House is also concerned about failures in the federal response infrastructure such as this:

If U.S. officials had followed up on a 1994 response plan for a major Gulf oil spill, it is possible that the spill could have been kept under control and far from land.

The problem: The federal government did not have a single fire boom on hand.

The "In-Situ Burn" plan produced by federal agencies in 1994 calls for responding to a major oil spill in the Gulf with the immediate use of fire booms.

But in order to conduct a successful test burn eight days after the Deepwater Horizon well began releasing massive amounts of oil into the Gulf, officials had to purchase one from a company in Illinois.

When federal officials called, Elastec/American Marine, shipped the only boom it had in stock, Jeff Bohleber, chief financial officer for Elastec, said today.

At federal officials' behest, the company began calling customers in other countries and asking if the U.S. government could borrow their fire booms for a few days, he said.

A single fire boom being towed by two boats can burn up to 1,800 barrels of oil an hour, Bohleber said. That translates to 75,000 gallons an hour, raising the possibility that the spill could have been contained at the accident scene 100 miles from shore.

"They said this was the tool of last resort. No, this is absolutely the asset of first use. Get in there and start burning oil before the spill gets out of hand," Bohleber said. "If they had six or seven of these systems in place when this happened and got out there and started burning, it would have significantly lessened the amount of oil that got loose."

In the days after the rig sank, U.S Coast Guard Rear Admiral Mary Landry said the government had all the assets it needed. She did not discuss why officials waited more than a week to conduct a test burn.

This is the sort of criticism that speaks to competency and the Obama administration knows this which is why the mere mention of a name like Michael Brown sets the Obama message machine into overdrive. Criticism of President Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina was Senator Obama's signature issue in his run up to the campaign for the White House. Now that President Obama is encountering the inherent limits and failures of a federal bureaucracy to disasters that occur on his own watch his administration is on defense instead of offense.

Note: Comments contributor iwogisdead links to this timelime. Thanks


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Comments (54)

The Bush administration kne... (Below threshold)
Lee Ward:

The Bush administration knew Katrina was coming three days before it reached New Orleans.

That's a big difference.

People's lives were in danger from the Hurricane and flooding.

Another huge difference.

Lee:You cannot hav... (Below threshold)
Patrick:

Lee:

You cannot have it both ways. I have no doubt BP will step up and foot the bill but they don't have enough resources to contain the problem on their own. You conveniently let off the state and local authorities in Louisiana for their abject failure during Katrina but want to hold the Obama Administration blameless for their slow response when BP and everybody else could not handle the situation on their own? The feds had a role to play in responding to this crisis and they were too slow in acting. I am not letting them off the hook as easily as you. What goes around comes around and often what is discovered is that government bureaucracies are not as nimble as you would like them to be.

I have to say I am bothered by the administration's rhetoric towards BP on this. Robert Gibbs is the second representative of this administration that has said they had "their boot on the neck of BP" while at the same time they refuse to take a stance that is anywhere near as aggressive towards the real enemies of the state - specifically Islamic radicals who time and again have sought to kill American citizens here and abroad. If they brought that kind of clarity to identifying the real threats to the country you might see fewer attempts.

Lee Ward1)Three da... (Below threshold)
HughS:

Lee Ward

1)Three days prior to landfall no one knew for certain it would hit NO but Bush admin officials were preparing for disaster.

2)National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield told Ray Nagin to issue a mandatory evacuation order on Saturday BEFORE the storm came ashore.

3) Neither Nagin or Gov Blanco ordered a mandatory evac until Sunday morning. The storm hit Monday morning. Ever been through an hurricane evac, Lee? I have. One day is not enough.

4) Blanco did not ask for federal troop assistance until Wednesday after the storm when she realized she was in a politically untenable position. The only way Bush could send in federal troops before that was to declare Louisianna in a state of insurrection (Posse Comitatus Act). Blanco never figured that out.

You're still relying Obama campaign blather as if it was fact

Lee is all about having it ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Lee is all about having it both ways

Barry will never admit to a... (Below threshold)
914:

Barry will never admit to any lack of proper response. He hasn't yet even acknowledged the destruction of the economy under his watch.

Just stating the facts, gen... (Below threshold)
Lee Ward:

Just stating the facts, gentlepeople. Having three days notice is a huge difference.

Lee WardThe US GOV... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Lee Ward

The US GOVT CANT STEP IN WITHOUT STATES ASKING FOR ASSISTANCE FIRST.

It is a SIMPLE SIMPLE PROCESS WHICH HAS BEEN MADE VERY CLEAR IN THE PAST 5 or so YEARS AFTER KATRINA.

SADLY IT IS ONE WHICH LIBERALS CHOOSE TO NEVER MENTION EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW ABOUT IT. Your willful disregard of facts is not astounding since you are in fact a liberal.


In 2006, the Democrats took... (Below threshold)

In 2006, the Democrats took the incompetence and inexperience of Michael Brown and used him as the poster boy for the alleged cronyism and "culture of corruption" within the Republican party.

Implicit in their rhetoric was this promise: "Elect us, and these kinds of things won't happen again."

Yet the incompetence the Democrats promised to alleviate is happening right now in the Gulf of Mexico. Regardless of whose "fault" the blowout was, the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 explicitly charges the Federal government with oil spill cleanup management, and designates the US Coast Guard as first responders for sea-borne oil spills.

In other words, Lee, Steve Crickmore, and everyone else, you can blame Bush, Cheney, Halliburton, etc. until you are blue in the face. None of that changes the fact that the Feds were responsible for containing and remediating the spill. Their response was sluggish and uncoordinated and ultimately revealed that they were unprepared in terms of equipment, manpower, and response time to follow their own emergency response plans.

As I recall, President Bush was solely responsible for "allowing" 9/11 to happen, even though he had been in office for less than a year at the time. Likewise, there is no reason not to hold the Obama White House responsible for the incompetence of the DHS in containing this spill. If ridding the government disaster response programs of incompetence had really been a priority for Democrats -- instead of an election year gimmick -- we would not have the current disaster that is unfolding right now.

The facts are that the Obam... (Below threshold)
retired military:

The facts are that the Obama admin is reeling around side to side from one emergency to the next.

Here let me do a preemptive Lee Ward.

I blame Bush.

Yeah, Bush knew the storm ... (Below threshold)
914:

Yeah, Bush knew the storm was coming and told the people to evacuate. Obama saw the gusher and has done nothing for 12 days accept a flyover.

Yes, I see the difference now Lee.

The Bush administration had... (Below threshold)
Lee Ward:

The Bush administration had advance notice:

In the days before Hurricane Katrina hit land, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, FEMA Director Michael Brown and other top Homeland Security officials received e-mails on their blackberries warning that Katrina posed a dire threat to New Orleans and other areas. Yet one FEMA official tells NPR little was done.

Leo Bosner, an emergency management specialist at FEMA headquarters in Washington, D.C., is in charge of the unit that alerts officials of impending crises and manages the response. As early as Friday, Aug. 26, Bosner knew that Katrina could turn into a major emergency.

In daily e-mails -- known as National Situation Updates -- sent to Chertoff, Brown and others in the days before Katrina made landfall in the Gulf Coast, Bosner warned of its growing strength -- and of the particular danger the hurricane posed to New Orleans, much of which lies below sea level.

There was no equivalent warning that the BP deepwater rig was going to blow.

You guys are looking like chumps - doing a heckofa job there, Hughy.

But feel free to show that the Obama administration knew three days in advance that the BP rig was going to explode.

Maybe you should check in with Jay Tea - he's pretty good at making up bullshit that has no basis in fact, but that "feels good" to the teabaggers in the audience.


"Having three days notice i... (Below threshold)
HughS:

"Having three days notice is a huge difference."

There you go again, Lee. Rearranging time lines and ignoring facts.

Nagin and Blanco had more than three days warning but ignored that for political reasons. Then the storm overwhelmed them and people died. Along with their willing accomplices in the media President Bush got blamed for Blanco and Nagin's cowardice and indecision. Not to mention the negligence of the Army Corps of Engineers.

Presidential leadership is about more than blaming people, a lesson the Obama administration is learning the hard way now.

Lee Ward wrote:<block... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Lee Ward wrote:

The Bush administration knew Katrina was coming three days before it reached New Orleans.

Well, no. Three days before, New Orleans did not appear to be in Katrina's path.

http://www.katrina.noaa.gov/forecast/images/katrina-track-08-25-2005.jpg

What would Obama have done? Rushed all the assets to New Orleans based on this information?


But feel free to s... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:
But feel free to show that the Obama administration knew three days in advance that the BP rig was going to explode.

Well, you got me there. However, the 9-day delay between the explosion and the pictures of Obama working on the issue seems to be a problem for you.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/05/obamas-katrina-illustrated-timeline.html

And, of course, let's not even mention the issue of the lack of fire booms in the Gulf.

Lee, as usual, has his head... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Lee, as usual, has his head firmly planted up his ass. He's not going to change his mind, he's too busy burning candles to his Obamassiah.

How's that kool aid, Lee?

So far, I count at least 3 ... (Below threshold)
Sky Captain:

So far, I count at least 3 smack downs of Lee Ward in this thread.

Yet he pops back up like a cheap inflatable punching bag.
Fascinating to watch, in a train-wreck sort of way.

Three days of warning for a... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Three days of warning for a hurricane:

Start prepping in areas well out of the footprint of the storm's probable landfall. Due to the inaccuracy of storm prediction, that means that all of the real prep had to be done 500 to 1000+ miles away.

Once the storm hits, you have a day of nothing. You have to wait for the storm to go away before you can even start moving.

After that, you have to send in teams to clear roadways, inspect bridges, find good places to set up recovery efforts. No, you can't pre-plan this too much, because of how hurricanes do damage. You also have to wait for the hurricane to get completely out of the way (Katrina closed down a lot of the middle part of the US for a couple of days, and destroyed the major westbound artery into New Orleans, which meant that most of the recovery supplies came from the Northeast by way of Dallas - look it up on a map). You're into D+2 at this point (36 to 48 hours after landfall).

Now that you know where the damage is, and know what route to take to get there, you can now start to send in supplies and people to supplement local disaster response. Before you can do much, you have to set up your response centers, which means food, water, fuel, and power - the first trucks in. This gets you well into D+2/D+3. NOTE: D+2 is when the "late" response actually started to flow into New Orleans - faster than any other disaster response of this size, ever, and actually ahead of plan.

After this, it's a matter of "how much material is on hand, how fast can we move it the 500 to 1000 miles to the disaster zone - what should we send, where should we send it?"

No, you can't just say "send everything everywhere." There's not enough money to do that on short notice (and not enough available trucks). The official plan from FEMA for at least the last 20 years has been "local response, Federal support." And that's what they got in New Orleans - much faster and bigger than any hurricane response, ever.

Pretty much every one who claims "FEMA screwed up the Katrina response" is ignoring some simple things. Like physics. No, you can't drive a loaded semi down an Interstate at speed when the road is covered with debris.

They also ignore the completely inept local prep and response - I've read the Louisiana and New Orleans emergency response plans, and if they'd done what they planned on, things would have gone much better. Instead, they had a bunch of stuff down on paper, took millions in Federal dollars to implement the plans... and didn't.

OK, Lee, let's go with your... (Below threshold)

OK, Lee, let's go with your "three days" fantasy.

What did the Obama administration do in the three days immediately AFTER the platform blew?

Something between "jack squat" and "jack shit."

Man, your ability to reason sucks harder than Larry Sinclair... and how's that "Tea Partiers set the bomb in Times Square" theory going?

J.

Obama did nothing for 8 day... (Below threshold)
Waldo:

Obama did nothing for 8 days even though a plan was in place for over a decade that could have captured 95% of the oil.

Obama would rather be golfing than do his job.

This lack of action on Bammy and his regime will make Katrina pale in comparison.

Tough shit Lee Lee, you ass kissing can't help you here.

"Well, no. Three days be... (Below threshold)
Lee Ward:

"Well, no. Three days before, New Orleans did not appear to be in Katrina's path. "

I just showed in comment #11 that the Bush administration (FEMA) did indeed know three days in advance that New Orleans was in danger.

As early as Friday, Aug. 26, Bosner knew that Katrina could turn into a major emergency.

In daily e-mails -- known as National Situation Updates -- sent to Chertoff, Brown and others in the days before Katrina made landfall in the Gulf Coast, Bosner warned of its growing strength -- and of the particular danger the hurricane posed to New Orleans, much of which lies below sea level.

It's pretty simple, really. Three days advance notice is a huge difference. If the Obama administration had three days advance notice that the BP deepwater rig was going to explode then you'd be comparing apples to apples.

Now, you're right in that the Bush administration ignored the warnings and chose to do nothing -- and as a result of that choice they then had major catching up to do, but that doesn't negate the fact that they had three days warning that the Obama administration did not have.

You can claim that the Bush administration decided that Katrina - three days before it hit land - wasn't worth worrying about, but the quote I included showed that they knew three days in advance, and it shows Bosner sent these warnings on to Chertoff and Brown and that Bosner specifically detailed the danger to the under sea level city of New Orleans.

In daily e-mails -- known as National Situation Updates -- sent to Chertoff, Brown and others in the days before Katrina made landfall in the Gulf Coast, Bosner warned of its growing strength -- and of the particular danger the hurricane posed to New Orleans, much of which lies below sea level.

If you want to declare an equivalency in the disaster responsiveness of Katrina and the BP blowout -- you have to acknowledge the three days advance warning difference. If the Obama administration had three days notice then Hugh's comparison would be worth looking at.

But in Hugh's post, the second major weakness is that the doesn't show where the Obama administration did anything wrong or made bad choices.

He quotes the opinion of pundits who say the Obama administration is in a panic, but he doesn't show where they have any good reason to be concerned their response was inadequate, does he?

Or that they had advance notice they ignored that is anywhere the equivalent of the notice FEMA's Bosner sent to Chertoff and Brownie.

You can't compare the BP explosion to Katrina and ignore the three day warning difference.

The Bush administration had three days advance warning that New Orleans was in perilous danger. They didn't act appropriately.

The Obama administration did not have three days advance warning, and it hasn't been shown (here at least) that they responded inappropriately.

"they had a bunch of stuff ... (Below threshold)

"they had a bunch of stuff down on paper, took millions in Federal dollars to implement the plans... and didn't"

Which curiously sounds alot like the Obama DHS' oil spill response...

Alright Lee, well give Barr... (Below threshold)
914:

Alright Lee, well give Barry 3 days starting from right now and see if he can make us proud of his crisis emergency response skills after that time? Or will it be more blame,blame,whine,whine,whine ala Booosh/Cheney/big oil?

Well see..

Somewhere, Paul is cracking... (Below threshold)

Somewhere, Paul is cracking his knuckles and dusting off his keyboard...

Lee? Why do you keep ignoring me? What did I ever do to deserve this? What should I tell the children? What did THEY ever do?

J.

"You can't compare the BP e... (Below threshold)
HughS:

"You can't compare the BP explosion to Katrina and ignore the three day warning difference. "

You can't comprehend the SIXTEEN YEARS of warning given by the government's own Insi-Tu burning plan to President Obama's slow and unprepared response, can you Lee? But that's because you didn't read the post. And you won't read the comments here that have thoroughly repudiated (at their own time and effort) your obtuse opinions.

I think I should ban you because you don't even rise to the level of useful idiot.

Looks like Lee is furiously... (Below threshold)
Waldo:

Looks like Lee is furiously googling for data on Katrina in a futile attempt to paint the Commie in Chief in doing a good job in this inexcusable incompetence created disaster.

Face it Lee, Hussein is not qualified to run a Taco Bell, let alone be a Senator or even President.

His lack of action for over a week is proof enough.

Wait till the next terrorist who is even half as competent as the last one. Comrade Obama and America have been blessed only with luck that the muslim terrorists are as incompetent in building bombs as Hussein Obama is in fulfilling the role of President.

@ Lee Ward in post #20:... (Below threshold)
Sky Captain:

@ Lee Ward in post #20:

Uh, you do realize all of your spewing in that post was already debunked thoroughly in posts #3, 7, 12, 13 and 17.
Or can't you read?

Bu you keep coming back to he same talking points defending BHO and blaming GWB for Katrina.

Lee Ward is tiresome with his "one-trick pony". And the pony is lame.

I have not read all of the ... (Below threshold)
Oldflyer:

I have not read all of the responses to Lee Ward, so this may be redundant.

Dear Sir, you need to do a little study of the U.S. Constitution and the premise of our governance. The Federal government does not go into a municipality or state and take over without a request for specific assistance from local authorities. That was the basic problem in the three days leading up to Katrina, as well as in the first days post-Katrina.

Now, events that occur 50 miles off shore are in the provenance of the Federal government.

Basic management and leadership principles dictate that you get ahead of developing crises. The excuse we are hearing is that the upper levels of the government were not getting accurate information in the early stages of this event. The truth is that they had the responsibility and the wherewithal to ensure that they did get accurate information.

If you have high enough interest you probe. When you have the resources available to the President, Sec Homeland Security, or EPA your probes will get results.

If One is busy running around the country for political fundraisers, or trying to sell your programs, or rehearsing your act for the Correspondent's dinner you may not have sufficient focus on the impending crisis.

Or it is possible that One has not learned how to ask questions that are not programmed into the teleprompter.

Whatever the reason, balls were dropped. Big time.

In daily e-mails -... (Below threshold)
JLawson:
In daily e-mails -- known as National Situation Updates -- sent to Chertoff, Brown and others in the days before Katrina made landfall in the Gulf Coast, Bosner warned of its growing strength -- and of the particular danger the hurricane posed to New Orleans, much of which lies below sea level.
Lee - pretty much ANY hurricane in the gulf threatens New Orleans. Three days before the storm actually hit it could have gone several hundred miles either way. Several hundred miles one way, and New Orleans would have been fine. Several hundred the other way, and New Orleans would have been brushed, but still fine.

If you've got some magic method of forecasting exactly where a hurricane's going to make landfall three days later, you need to contact NOAA - you'd make a friggin' fortune.

BTW, this little graphics archive shows that on Friday at 11 AM, Katrina was down at the Keys and the 3-day prediction is everywhere from the west coast of Florida to just about New Orleans, aiming a bit east of Pensacola. At 5 PM, it shifted to a bit west of the Mississippi/Alabama border.

At 11 PM, it was forecast to make landfall somewhere east of Pensacola, FL to almost the Texas border.

10 AM Saturday, NOAA called a hurricane watch for lower Louisiana. AT THAT POINT, Nagin and Blanco should have been implementing their plans.

But hell - what if the track had shifted again? All that money spent for nothing?

4 PM Saturday, and the track was forecast right over New Orleans. AT THAT POINT Nagin and Blanco should have been scrambling to get their shit together. But they didn't.

From this bio of Nagin comes the following:

On August 26 Mayor Nagin advised New Orleanians to keep a close eye on the storm and prepare for evacuation. He made various statements encouraging people to leave without officially calling for an evacuation throughout Saturday the 27th before issuing a call for voluntary evacuation that evening. He was hesitant to order a mandatory evacuation because of concerns about the city's liability for closing hotels and other businesses.[5] Nagin continued to announce that the city attorney was reviewing the information regarding this issue and once he had reviewed the city attorney's opinion he would make a decision whether to give the order to evacuate the city. With fewer than 24 hours left before the storm's landfall, Nagin declared a mandatory evacuation, the first in the city's history, and the first for a U.S. city of this size since the American Civil War. In a radio interview on WWL, he bluntly criticized the delays in aid to the city, and expressed anger with what he saw as the slow federal and state response.[6]
In 2004, Nagin had called for a voluntary evac ahead of Hurricane Ivan.

It missed the city. Oh, the embarrasment... I can imagine he would be a bit reluctant to call for a bugout a second time. 24 hours was simply not enough time.

Same thing with Blanco.

On August 27, 2005, Governor Blanco, speaking about Hurricane Katrina, told the media in Jefferson Parish, "I believe we are prepared. That's the one thing that I've always been able to brag about." Later that day she issued a request for federal assistance and USD $9 million in aid to President George W. Bush, which stated, "...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal." Also in the requesting letter, the governor stated: "In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan."
She requested aid 24 hours before the storm hit. She directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan 48 hours (being generous, giving her two full days) before landfall. Figure 10-12 hours before landfall the effects of the storm were going to be felt. So they had MAYBE 36 hours to prepare for and run through an evac plan that would take 72 hours under the best of conditions.

They fucked up.


And the Feds couldn't force the issue!

The unicorned One has 70 ho... (Below threshold)
914:

The unicorned One has 70 hours remaining Lee. Hope he isnt as disappointing as the first 17 months have been.

"You should call h... (Below threshold)
Marc:
"You should call headquarters," he told Goler, and talk to "whoever makes the decision to put people like that on."
Goler should have retorted; "Gibbs you sniveling twit you better call ted turner that asshat browne was on wolf "blitzkeig's" Situation Room also."
Note for obummer... you've ... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Note for obummer... you've spent an inordinate amount of time denigrating BP but they don't own the rig they only run the place.

The rig, Deepwater Horizon, is owned by Transocean Ltd. so why aren't you ragging on them?

They in fact are the ones that failed to provide an acoustic shutoff valve (a $500,000 piece of equip but not mandated by U.S. law) that may have stopped the blowout as soon as it started.

Lee's fundamental dishonest... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Lee's fundamental dishonesty is exposed by the simple truth. As our own Paul proved - and the Army Corps of Engineers finally admitted - Katrina hit NO with only Category 1 winds and not nearly the surge feared. It was the poor engineering over the years which set up the disaster, compounded by the complete incompetence of state and local officials. Note for example the few government-owned buildings which have been rebuilt in NO since, despite millions thrown at the problem.

On the contrary, Katrina hit Mississippi with devastating force, and while they are still rebuilding there, too, the human disaster was alleviated by strong state and local leadership.

If Lee says it, you can count on it being misleading at best, and usually flatly untrue.

Jim - "Lee's fundamenta... (Below threshold)
Marc:

Jim - "Lee's fundamental dishonesty is exposed by the simple truth."

Ok which term do you think Lee actually understands, "simple" or "truth?"

And yes, that's a rhetorical question.

Lee WardAnswer one... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Lee Ward

Answer one question.

JUST ONE.

When did officials from New Orleans ask for help? You know the help which Bush BY LAW couldnt provide until they did.

Come on Lee.

Just answer that ONE question instead of sidestepping the issue.

Instead of answering that ONE quesetion you will choose to ignore it yet again.

The word IDIOT comes to mind but then I would be insulting idiots around the world.

Here you go Lee<a ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Here you go Lee

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina

Saturday, August 27, 2005

"Governor Blanco sends a letter to President George W. Bush asking him to declare a major disaster for the State of Louisiana, in order to release federal financial assistance.[6]

In response to Governor Blanco's request, President Bush declared a federal state of emergency in Louisiana under the authority of the Stafford Act, which provided a, "means of assistance by the Federal Government to State and local governments in carrying out their responsibilities to alleviate the suffering and damage which result from such disasters,..."[7]

"

Why did Blanco wait so long?

Or are you saying Bush should have broken the law?

Oh and how about this Lee</... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Oh and how about this Lee

Thursday, September 8, 2005
President Bush issued an executive order suspending the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931, allowing federal contractors rebuilding after Katrina to pay below the prevailing wage. This action upset labor leaders and democrats in Congress, who feared that it would make it more difficult for union contractors to win bids.[47]


Got to take care of the labor unions right?


And what about this LEE... (Below threshold)
retired military:

And what about this LEE

Friday, August 26, 2005
At 1:00 AM EDT, maximum sustained winds had decreased to 70 mph (110 km/h) and Katrina was again downgraded to a tropical storm. At 5:00 AM EDT, the eye of Hurricane Katrina was located just offshore of southwestern Florida over the Gulf of Mexico about 50 miles (80 km) north-northeast of Key West, Florida. Maximum sustained winds had again increased to 75 mph (121 km/h) and Katrina was upgraded again to a Category 1 hurricane.

In the early afternoon, the National Hurricane Center officially shifts the possible track of Katrina from the Florida Panhandle to the Mississippi/Louisiana coast. Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco declared a state of emergency for the state of Louisiana.[2] The declaration included activation of the state of Louisiana's emergency response and recovery program under the command of the director of the state office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness to supply emergency support services. Following the declaration of a state of emergency, federal troops were deployed to Louisiana to coordinate the planning of operations with the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).[3] 922 Army National Guard and 8 Air National Guard are deployed.

By 11:00 PM EDT, the National Hurricane Center predicted that Hurricane Katrina would strike the town of Buras-Triumph, Louisiana, 66 miles (106 km) southeast of New Orleans.[4]


Remember Lee you have the right to your opinion JUST NOT TO FACTS.


Gotta give everyone credit ... (Below threshold)
Hank:

Gotta give everyone credit for trying to educate Lee. Unfortunately, it's going to be a waste of time. Popular Mechanics also analyzed the Fed Response to Katrina and found that:

"In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and fastest-rescue effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall."

This contrasts nicely with the performance of the Obama administration:

"In the days after the rig sank, U.S Coast Guard Rear Admiral Mary Landry said the government had all the assets it needed. She did not discuss why officials waited more than a week to conduct a test burn."

And really, based on what we've seen of Obama's dithering, did anyone expect him to act decisively on this or any other problem?

Oh and Lee"You can... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Oh and Lee

"You can't compare the BP explosion to Katrina and ignore the three day warning difference. "

Let me fix that for you


You can't compare the BP explosion to Katrina and ignore the nine+ days that Obama did nothing vs the IMMEDIATE massive federal response immediately AFTER the STATE OFFICIALS DID WHAT THE NEEDED TO DO FOR THE FEDS TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE.

Before I respond to Lee.<br... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

Before I respond to Lee.
11 men who work 100 miles off shore died. They are away from Family and friend in service to this country they bring oil that heats our home, power our industry and make life saving plastics. They drill it here so we do not have to send money to Countries in the middle east that sponsor terrorism. They do it here!
They died and I say thank you!

So BP is working the issue. What has the Fed done? Sent lawyers down, closed down other rigs, and put there boot on BP neck. So how has that helped?

How about spending Money on buying Fire booms? Say like the 10 needed to handle spills in the future?

BP engineers are working on redesigning equipment for deep water. Why not have help our National Labs MMS in the construction and fabrication.

The RIG is 100 miles off shore. That the Domain of the Federal government. Simple if the Government acted then the oil would have never reached spread.

This is why this is worst than Katerina because utter incompetence and deflection rules the day.

In fact the response from the White House should be. These are the measures we are now implementing. We providing these added resources mitigate the issue.

Instead we hear BP is going to pay.

FIX issue
Investigate
Less Learned
Assign Fault
Implement measures.

As an example we here about the Acoustic trigger.
Would that have worked?
What if we find the issue is that a large chunk of debris is preventing the ram from closing will the 500K be better spent on adding 4th safe guard that does not work or designing a better system?

One need to have all parties Talk to get to the bottom of the issue.

F*** IT we have more sympathy toward people who set out to kill Americans than to a company trying to manage a crisis.


Here, here for 40.... (Below threshold)
epador:

Here, here for 40.

I don't give a damn about B... (Below threshold)
olsoljer:

I don't give a damn about Bush one way or the other, but he was PROHIBITED by law from sending in federal assistance to NO until requested.
While the Won was busy playing golf or chasing Thunderthighs around the oval office, an off-shore rig blows up in FEDERALLY controlled waters. Now we know that rig was not drilling for water out there, but gas and oil. What would one expect to happen? Maybe an oil spill? Whose responsibility is it to obtain the accurate updates and intensley monitor the situation? Could it be the Won was learning to play the fiddle?
Bush had assetts in place to respond to the areas that might be affected, IN ADVANCE of the landing of Katrina. The Won did not have assets at all, "borrow fire booms from OTHER countries???" The Won, his adminstrative czars and federal departments had the RESPONSIBILITY to protect our coastline. They did nothing WRONG? They did nothing INAPPROPRIATE? The Coast Guard "had all the assets it needed? THEY SIMPLY IGNORED THE SITUATION. The Won's response comes EIGHT DAYS after the explosion? Even if Lee was right (which he isn't of course) about the 3 day warning of Katrina, we're talking 8 days AFTER KNOWING the rig exploded.

Ramifications? 11 dead so far. Because of the lack of containment uncalculable destruction of marine/wildlife, ecology. Devastation of fishing/shrimping/and associated industries(packing plants, charter fishing etc etc}. LOSS OF JOBS, IMPENDING FAILURE OF SMALL BUSINESSES in the above and many of those related to tourism, which will lead to even more businesses. We do not even know how wide spread this spill will go, although the possibility that the spill COULD affect much of the gulf states coastlines and possibly sweep around the state of Florida and affect parts of the eastern United States coastline.

Who needs terrorists when we have Obuma?

OMG, why do you guys even h... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

OMG, why do you guys even humor Lee? He's a complete waste of time.

Daily humor is a good thing... (Below threshold)
914:

Daily humor is a good thing. No one takes him seriously, or at least I do not. Since Steve greens mom took his puter away Lee makes a great half-witted substitute.

I think Lee and Steve Green... (Below threshold)
Eric:

I think Lee and Steve Green are the same person. Notice that Steve Green appeared not long after Lee was booted from Blue. Steve Green disappears a few weeks ago and Lee reappears.

Both apply the same brand of circular logic and double standards that I think they are one in the same person.

I think You may be onto som... (Below threshold)
914:

I think You may be onto something there Eric.

Here let me do a preempt... (Below threshold)
Babyface:

Here let me do a preemptive Lee Ward.

I blame Bush.

I'll do one as well: My dog just crapped on the living room carpet.

I blame Bush too.

Yeah, Oyster, he's pretty r... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Yeah, Oyster, he's pretty resistant to reality. But he actually serves a useful purpose, even though he doesn't realize it.

By tossing out the 'reality' based factoids he does (Like how it's all Bush's fault on Katrina) it gets us to take a look at the REALITY of the historical record. He can try to spin things as much as he likes, but the Internet never forgets and no matter how he tries to misinterpret he can't get by it.

It's actually rather entertaining watching him try, in a way.

I'll do one as wel... (Below threshold)
Eric:
I'll do one as well: My dog just crapped on the living room carpet. I blame Bush too.

That's not Bush's fault. If Bush were there, the dog would have crapped on the bush, not on the carpet. So its really Obama's fault that your dog crapped on the carpet.

Oooops!.................. (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Oooops!...............

"During his time in the Senate and while running for president, Obama received a total of $77,051 from the oil giant BP and is the top recipient of BP PAC and individual money over the past 20 years, according to financial disclosure records.

What did BP get in return?

"The Interior Department exempted BP's calamitous Gulf of Mexico drilling operation from a detailed environmental impact analysis last year, according to government documents, after three reviews of the area concluded that a massive oil spill was unlikely.

The decision by the department's Minerals Management Service on April 6, 2009 -- and BP's lobbying efforts just 11 days before the explosion to expand those exemptions -- show that neither federal regulators nor the company anticipated an accident of the scale of the one unfolding in the gulf."

Hope and Change, baby! Hope and Change.

Just in case Lee has troubl... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

Just in case Lee has trouble finding where Garandfan found that gem:

It's here

LeeMaybe your or O... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Lee

Maybe your or Obama can explain to you liberal friend featured here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQeIjt2pxjc&feature=player_embedded#!

what took so long for OBAMA and the FEDERAL GOVT to respond to the spill IN FEDERAL JURISDICTION WATERS.

It has been 23 hours since ... (Below threshold)
Sky Captain:

It has been 23 hours since Lee's last post, for which he was thoroughly debunked once again.

I believe Lee is done with this thread, his mission (comedy relief) complete.

44 hours left for Lee's Obj... (Below threshold)
914:

44 hours left for Lee's Objob to combat sealife terrorists?

tic tic tic....




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