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A Call To Arms

Well, Comedy Central is at it again. In their ongoing effort to remain on the cutting edge of humor, to remain suitably "edgy" and determined that there are no taboos, are showing that you can make fun of big religions.

First, they announced they're developing a new series called "JC," the story of a young man who runs away to New York City to get away from his overbearing father. His, really, really, REALLY overbearing Father -- God. Yup, "JC" is Jesus Christ, looking to escape his destiny and just be an average guy in the Big Apple.

Now, we have news that they're sending their animated mock reality show, "Drawn Together," to the big screen. To promote it, they have a game on their web site called "I.S.R.A.E.L. Attack!" After the introduction -- "you lied to me, Jew Producer!" -- a giant robot named "Intelligent Smart Robot Animation Eraser Lady" goes on a player-controlled rampage destroying everything and everyone in its path.

These two shows seem almost deliberately designed to offend Christians and Jews, enough to make me wonder if that was intentional and part of the marketing strategy. Well, there's only one response that strikes me as appropriate:

Christians and Jews ought to hit back, and hit back hard.

No, I'm not talking about rhetorical or symbolic gestures. I'm talking naked force, real violence. I'm talking about bomb threats on their headquarters, accompanied by real bombs. I'm talking about physical assaults and attempts to kill the people behind these gross insults. I'm talking about making the creators genuinely fear for their safety, and that of their families.

Because in today's world, that is what works. That is what works better than any other approach.

And Comedy Central has shown the truth of that statement. Earlier this year, South Park wanted to show Mohammed, the founder of Islam, in pretty much the same way they've shown Jesus and other religous figures. No, that's not quite right. They were going to be somewhat more respectful to Mohammed than they have been in the past. But Comedy Central, in response to threats of violent retaliation from a couple of fanatical Muslims, censored the episode and made sure that not only was Mohammed not ever shown, but that he wasn't even in the episode at all.

So, what's different Muslims that makes them immune from the same sort of treatment given to Christians and Jews? Why are they granted greater deference?

It's certainly not that they have some kind of moral superiority. On the contrary -- the "morality" of Islam is objectively inferior to the other two. The founders of the other two faiths weren't pedophile warlords who openly called for conversion at swordpoint, among numerous other failings. The other faiths don't have an enshrined doctrine that openly advocates lying to unbelievers if it's convenient.

It's definitely not because the Muslims have better lawyers. Come on, let's be blunt -- who has better lawyers than the Jews?

No, the reason why Islam gets this level of deference is because they demand it at the point of a gun. Piss off Muslims (an exceptionally easy thing to do), and you can expect to face very credible death threats.

Just how easy is it to do? All you have to do is violate some of the fundamental tenets of their faith.

Show me another religion that demands that non-adherents in a secular nation obey the laws of its faith.

In Denmark, a non-Islamic nation, some non-Muslim cartoonists broke the Islamic rule against depicting Mohammed. That triggered riots, death threats, and actual attempts to kill them.

Salman Rushdie is still living under a death sentence for writing a book.

And around the world, non-Muslims are being punished -- often with death -- for breaking Islam's laws. In Islamic nations, it's done under color of law. In non-Islamic nations, it's done by vigilante actions.

And it's rare that anyone dares even criticize it, let alone stand up to it.

So that's the world we live in. Where if a religion wants to be exempt from criticism, if it wants to enforce its code of conduct on the populace outside their congregation, they need to start showing that they are willing to do so with force. Perhaps when modern Christianity and Judaism start piling up a body count among their critics, things will start to change.

Do I like calling for this? Hell, no. I find it absolutely morally repugnant. But I have two core principles that apply here.

The first is that I loathe double standards. It offends me no end that adherents to one faith are not held to the same standards, don't have to obey the same laws, as the rest. And as there seems to be no stomach to compel Muslims to obey them, then the other faiths should be exempt.

The other is that I am primarily a pragmatist. There's an old saying that "nothing succeeds like success," and there's no denying that Islam's "obey our rules or we'll kill you" policy has been wildly successful.

I only see two drawbacks with my plan. Fatal ones.

The first is that mainstream Christianity and Judaism find such tactics absolutely abhorrent. Yes, they have rules about blasphemy and whatnot, but they only impose them upon their own adherents -- not the general populace. And even among themselves, the worst penalty they impose is "get out and don't come back."

The other is that Christianity and Judaism are too assimilated into modern Western culture to engage in such barbarism. They believe in civilization, in the rule of law, of a separation between the secular and the sacred, and aren't out to bring the rest of the world about to their way of thinking by the "convert or die" doctrine. Hell, the Jews aren't interested in converting anyone at all -- if you want to become a Jew, you gotta work like hell to be accepted. They actively discourage converts.

So I guess my little battle cry will go nowhere. I didn't really expect it would, especially since the issuer of the cry isn't even a member of the groups being called.

But it just might help wake up enough people to an absolutely intolerable situation.


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Comments (73)

Comedy Central is acting li... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

Comedy Central is acting like a two year old.

No, Ryan, Muslims are actin... (Below threshold)

No, Ryan, Muslims are acting like two-year-olds. Comedy Central is acting like a colossal wimp.

J.

I read your stuff all the t... (Below threshold)

I read your stuff all the time Jay, and this is the best post you have ever written. Finally, someone has the chutzpah to tell it like it is. My thanks to Wizbang for letting you post it. If Kevin fires you, come on over to CSJ.

Exactly. The whole world k... (Below threshold)
mag:

Exactly. The whole world kow-tows to the muslims because they threaten violence. It has to stop. I am getting sick and tired of this double standard...either everything is fair game or they stay away from all religions. The muslims are getting exactly what they want by doing what they do, and unfortunely it seems to be working pretty damn good. How long are Christians & Jews going to take this crap. I am a Christian, but have very strong feelings for Jews (after all Christ was a Jew-to disrepect Jews is to disrepect Christ-in my opinion). It should be no more nice guys.
Of course, there is always hitting the purse...don't watch the show.

Youre right on, Jay.<... (Below threshold)

Youre right on, Jay.

I have never heard of you, but you can bet I WILL be back to read your articles.

We, the Americans, have been under assault for 20 years now that I can recall. Ive been preaching to the masses about what the future holds, if in fact they continue to appease and lay down. I have told them what they will endure because they will not fight. But as always, when I speak in behalf of Americans or White Americans, you can guess...Im just a (RACIST!!!), a xenophobe, a bigot, and whatever else they can come up with.
I gave up. I have to let these people learn the hard way. Something they will never forget.....if they survive.
The only ones I gravitate to are the ones who actually 'Get It'. The rest are not worth my time.
We are at a cross-road in this Country. The ones that are so adamant about NOT fighting, will have to.

And I cannot wait to see that day come.

The Culture War has begun and I cannot wait to see these appeasers when their appease-eze come for them. I will walk away and leave them to their fate.

*I bet you all are wondering just WHAT the hell Im talking about, huh?*

I have this feeling that th... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

I have this feeling that these shows will be very novel at first but will grow old very quickly. I mean they are even starting out with a false premise. The God Jesus spoke of is a loving father. May I suggest the character of the Muslim God as well as the character of its prophet are significantly more "overbearing" than those of Christianity? The producers of these shows get to pat themselves on the back for being hip/cool but I don't think there are going to be a lot of creative story lines to hold audience interest for an extended period of time.

I still have the problem I'... (Below threshold)
Timmer:

I still have the problem I've always had when it comes to radical Islam. Any time we start acting like they do, they win. There's no point in defeating them if we have to replace them as the king shit bastards of the planet to do it.

The final critic of what th... (Below threshold)
Don L:

The final critic of what they write will be their God -acknowledged or otherwise.

It is well said in the "good Book" that "The beginning of all wisdom is the fear of God."

Justice will bring them their due reward, and then non will be speaking up on their behalf. The silence shall be deafening.

The only real punishment fo... (Below threshold)

The only real punishment for these idiots will be the same as the punishment being meted out to MSNBS, CNN, the New York Times, and their ilk. Just turn off the television, notify the advertisers on the show that because they are reported to advertise on that show (since you refuse to watch it on principle, you do not see their ads), you will choose their competitors.

Even if you buy their products (for other reasons), the advertisors will know that they have wasted their money.

This is not a boycott, it is registering a protest with the only people who might make a difference.

Jews own the media and Come... (Below threshold)
Springer:

Jews own the media and Comedy Central.

Pathetic.

"The beauty of working at a... (Below threshold)

"The beauty of working at a place like Comedy Central is you can empower people to actualize their vision in a really unfiltered way, and that's when things have the best shot at being funny." -Comedy Central's programming chief Kent Alterman

Of course this doesn't apply if the "vision" involves muslims.

Timmer -As I<a hre... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Timmer -

As I pointed out in another thread, the 'any time we start acting like they do, they win' argument is essentially false. When it comes down to survival, ANYTHING is fair. (My example of the bombing strategies in WW2, and what we did afterwards still holds, I think.)

You worry about the ethical repercussions afterwards. What's important is making sure there's an afterwards in which we can worry about them.

Being destroyed as a civilization because we're not willing to fight effectively for what we believe in isn't a noble ethical stance - it's suicidally stupid.

Perhaps there's some other way to counter what Islam is doing in the media - but right now they've got the upper hand and are shaping the ideological battleground through threats, fear, and intimidation tactics. We need SOME way to counter that.

We're also going up against a culture that sees an individual dying while advancing its theological underpinnings as being the noblest possible act. You aren't going to dissade them with sternly worded oblique warnings about possible repercussions to be decided by a yet-to-be determined board after investigations are implemented by an ad-hoc committee of experts.

What do we need to do? Hell if I know - but pacifistic platitudes aren't going to keep the bikinis on the beach long-term, if you know what I'm saying...

In other words, you don't worry about not fighting by Marquis of Queensbury rules when you kick someone in the nuts when they're coming at you with a knife.

Let me save the left commen... (Below threshold)
epador:

Let me save the left commentors some pixels and electrons:

The violence of withholding the dollar is the Western tactic.

1) Not just letters of complaint but canceling subscriptions to cable or satellite providers that offer Comedy Central on their basic or first tier programming ought to do the trick. Boycott and refuse to do business not only with Comedy Central but their main contractors and advertisers.

2) File any possible legal complaints in as many as possible local venues - the death of a thousand cuts.

It worked so well in Iraq and Iran, right?

"You worry about the ethica... (Below threshold)
Don L:

"You worry about the ethical repercussions afterwards..."

Win at any cost -any means to an end is the essence of all that is evil and certainly not the code of those who would demand a just society.

The point is that we can be moral and truthful with a lot more aggression and wisdom than we're using. You don't fight immorality with immorality -because then only immorality can win....

There are those who are ass... (Below threshold)
hermie:

There are those who are assuming that Muslims define 'immorality' and 'ethics' in the same way as Christians and Jews. They don't give a flying fig if we wring our hands and worry about being perceived as being 'unethical'. In fact, they consider it laughable and a sign of our weakness; which they have been using against us.

Win at any cost -any mea... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Win at any cost -any means to an end is the essence of all that is evil and certainly not the code of those who would demand a just society.

Put your ethically correct demands for a just society up against a firebomb, and see which gets 'respect' first.

Read what Hermie said, Don L - especially the last sentence.

Maybe in their show "JC", C... (Below threshold)
Dave:

Maybe in their show "JC", Comedy Central can introduce a character named "Jihad" the tough-as-nails violence-as-a-way-of-life leader of a street gang called The Palestinians. Imagine the fun and high jinks as JC and Jihad share an apartment on the Upper East Side.

Okay, so if this strategy w... (Below threshold)
question:

Okay, so if this strategy works then all the fans of comedy central who rightly despise all three of these religions will be deprived of a good dose of entertainment. Why don't you just go out and find some Muslims and take it out on them instead? Is it because you are a coward, and would rather go after a faceless corporation or small time cartoonist like the Islamists themselves do, rather than fight these scum in the streets and in their homes?

FANS OF COMEDY CENTRAL AND OPPONENTS OF RELIGION MUST STAND UP AGAINST THE TOTALITARIANISM OF MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS AND JEWS, DEFENDING THE RIGHT TO COMEDY WITH THE GUN AND THE SWORD. IT IS TIME WE STAND UP AGAINST THE RELIGIOUS SCUM THAT LIVES PARASITICALLY OFF OF THE FREEDOMS WE ALLOW THEM.

Sigh.When Christia... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Sigh.

When Christians and Jews start beheading people, I'll worry about their 'totalitarian' aspects. I see no signs of either going in that direction. All during the Bush administration there were those on the far left maintaining he was going to establish a theocratic state - I always thought their objections were an example of what THEY would do if they had the chance.

God knows what 'question' would do - put everyone who professes any sort of belief up against a wall and let God sort them out?

Is unIslamic. We keel you.<... (Below threshold)
bobdog:

Is unIslamic. We keel you.

There was a time, not too long ago, when Americans were gracious enough to respect each others' religious beliefs, regardless of what they were. It was simply considered good manners. Among people who have some sense of religious belief, this is largely still true. I'm not a practicing Christian, but I was raised as one and still have that value system.

But that was then, this is now, and we're all lawyered up. It is an article of faith among the left that religion is some sort of mental illness, and something to be ridiculed. Question's absurd comment above is an example of this.

What continues to amaze me is that lefties don't seem to recognize that their behavior is arguably a religion in itself, and its hallmark is intolerance for any other belief system at all.

You don't even have to do a... (Below threshold)
jim m:

You don't even have to do anything to them. You just need to make them think that you might.

Publish the names and home addresses of the people in charge at Comedy Central. Publish the names of their family members and where they go to school and work.

You don't have to issue any threats. Just make them answerable to anyone who objects to their crap. As Alinski would say: Personalize it.

Comedy Central has seriousl... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

Comedy Central has seriously slipped up in recent years, as the concept of "comedy" is slying dying on that channel. Other than the stand-up comedians (Jeff Dunham, the "Axis of Evil" guys, etc.) Comedy Central like SNL ceased to be funny a long time ago.

Comedy Central is a poster ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Comedy Central is a poster child for "liberals". They'll do or say as they want, not caring who they might 'offend' (unless of course it's a major financial contributor).

EXCEPT WHEN YOU THREATEN TO KICK THEIR FACES IN. Then the liberal stalwarts quickly back down. So much for the "strength" of their beliefs.

"What continues to amaze... (Below threshold)
Geoffrey Britain:

"What continues to amaze me is that lefties don't seem to recognize that their behavior is arguably a religion in itself, and its hallmark is intolerance for any other belief system at all."

Irony defined. But their obtuseness is intentional for if they faced up to it, they'd have to reject it and then where would they be? Thus, denial defined.

"Perhaps there's some ot... (Below threshold)
Geoffrey Britain:

"Perhaps there's some other way to counter what Islam is doing in the media - but right now they've got the upper hand and are shaping the ideological battleground through threats, fear, and intimidation tactics."

Liberal denial will be maintained as long as possible and nothing will be done until the denial is no longer sustainable. Lots of people are going to have to die, repeatedly, before that denial will collapse.

We all know that radical Islam isn't going to stop.

We all know that Radical Islam in their evil is a modern-day version of the Nazi's.

Radical Islamic terrorists frequently justify their targeting of innocents by claiming that there are no innocents, that the West's governments act as the public's agents and thus, they are culpable for those government's actions.

That is an argument however, that cuts both ways.

Besides the fact that the west doesn't intentionally target Islamic innocents and that our violence is in response to violent terrorist aggression, radical Islamists aren't fighting the West for reasons of oppression. That is merely a smoke screen, they are fighting against the west because they know that Islam's extinction is assured in a modern world.

But the West is responsible for its actions and so is the Ummah (Islam).

'Moderate' Islam has demonstrated that it hasn't the moral fiber to confront 'Radical' Islam.

'Moderate' Islam, in their condoning of the violence is acting as the Vichy French of WWII did, enabling the violence by turning a blind eye to those within the Ummah who do support the radicals.

When a people refuse to oppose violence done in their name against others, and tolerate the active support of that violence, they become complicit in it. That resultant criminal culpability confers upon those who condone the violence, accountability and responsibility for that violence.

The West wishes to fight by the 'Marquis of Queensbury's' rules but radical Islam is bringing a knife to the fight and completely disregarding any 'rules'.

Were it to end there, we could 'adjust' to it but eventually they will bring nukes to the fight because its a case of conquest or death for them. As for them, the West must die or Islam will go extinct... and, because of their religious fanaticism, they'd rather watch the world burn than go quietly into the night.

Radical Islam by itself however could never prevail without the support of moderate Islam.

Moderate Islam's toleration and covert support for the radical's actions will eventually force the West to place survival first and then we shall bring nukes to the fight and end it.

Not because we want to but because Islam, both radical and moderate, will leave us no choice. Evil, can never really agree to coexistence, it's not in its nature and the morally weak never confront those who are malevolently immoral.

'Moderate' Islam's culpability won't be squarely faced by the West until liberal denial is unsustainable.

Eventually, after enough deaths, such as a nuclear terrorist attack upon NYC, we will have one of three choices; 1) surrender, 2) retreat into a 'fortress' America with the consequent imposition of near-permanent martial law or 3) nuclear retaliation and then, Islam given an ultimatum; "cut out the cancer or we will".

A new doctrine will then be announced; any future nuclear attack will result in nuclear retaliation upon Tehran (foremost sponsor of terror) as well as the capital of any nation determined to be providing support for the guilty terrorist organization and... Mecca and Medina will be turned into glass parking lots.

The hard truth is; Islam can't reform itself, moderates are complicit in the violence, covert support within Islam is enabling the terrorists and, 'moderates' are doing and will do, nothing to stop it, which makes the Ummah, Islam itself, criminally liable.

Eventually, the West is going to have to face the truth of the matter.

The politically correct 'morality' of so many in the West ensure that many millions will die unnecessarily, just as in WWII, the European pacifists denial resulted in 60 million unnecessary deaths.

All because liberal/pacifist/appeasers couldn't face up to the true nature of the threat we face and 'bite the bullet'.

True christian love here..I... (Below threshold)
Rusty Shackelford:

True christian love here..If they don't think like us, kill them!!
If they mock our beliefs KILL THEM!!!

"I'm talking about bomb threats on their headquarters, accompanied by real bombs. I'm talking about physical assaults and attempts to kill the people behind these gross insults. I'm talking about making the creators genuinely fear for their safety, and that of their families."

You guys are the definition of hypocrisy.

"You guys are the defini... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"You guys are the definition of hypocrisy."

And you're a fucking idiot who didn't even bother to read the entire article and the comments appended.

Just for the chance something might sink through that corrupt mass of cat food you call a brain, here's something you MIGHT have missed in your haste to condemn everyone.


Do I like calling for this? Hell, no. I find it absolutely morally repugnant. But I have two core principles that apply here.

The first is that I loathe double standards. It offends me no end that adherents to one faith are not held to the same standards, don't have to obey the same laws, as the rest. And as there seems to be no stomach to compel Muslims to obey them, then the other faiths should be exempt.

The other is that I am primarily a pragmatist. There's an old saying that "nothing succeeds like success," and there's no denying that Islam's "obey our rules or we'll kill you" policy has been wildly successful.

I only see two drawbacks with my plan. Fatal ones.

The first is that mainstream Christianity and Judaism find such tactics absolutely abhorrent. Yes, they have rules about blasphemy and whatnot, but they only impose them upon their own adherents -- not the general populace. And even among themselves, the worst penalty they impose is "get out and don't come back."

The other is that Christianity and Judaism are too assimilated into modern Western culture to engage in such barbarism. They believe in civilization, in the rule of law, of a separation between the secular and the sacred, and aren't out to bring the rest of the world about to their way of thinking by the "convert or die" doctrine. Hell, the Jews aren't interested in converting anyone at all -- if you want to become a Jew, you gotta work like hell to be accepted. They actively discourage converts.

So I guess my little battle cry will go nowhere. I didn't really expect it would, especially since the issuer of the cry isn't even a member of the groups being called.

But it just might help wake up enough people to an absolutely intolerable situation.

Kind of changes things, doesn't it? Of course, YOU can't be in error so you'll handwave all over the place and insult everyone you can who isn't of your ideology, and feel good because you've done your duty as far as spreading compassion and tolerance across the intertubes. IF, that is, you even bother to come back to see what responses you get to the turd you squeezed out.

This is getting to be more and more of a problem - and a solution will need to be found fairly soon. (Within the next decade, if not less.) And no, getting on your knees and begging them not to behead you ISN'T a viable option!

Are you friggin' kiddin' me... (Below threshold)
Ben_ji:

Are you friggin' kiddin' me? Honestly terror shit? Really? It's a damn set of show's on cable and a possible movie. If you don't like them ignore them.

If you honestly call for a call to arms like this and one person friggin' responds I hope you spend the rest of your days in a pita prison situation.

Absolutely nothing is above... (Below threshold)
Will:

Absolutely nothing is above dissent or parody. Grow up.

"This is getting to be more... (Below threshold)

"This is getting to be more and more of a problem - and a solution will need to be found fairly soon. (Within the next decade, if not less.) And no, getting on your knees and begging them not to behead you ISN'T a viable option!"

You're right. It's not.

It's far better to give them a reason to behead you first.

Or maybe you think they hate us for our freedoms?

When will people learn that violence simply begets more violence.

If you honestly want to see someone dead because their opinion makes you sadface, maybe take a little look at your own life and stop worry about others.

Or simply keep hating and furthering the problem. I doubt you can see any other way.

No, you can't call for viol... (Below threshold)
astigafa:

No, you can't call for violence against the families of the people who make these shows, say "But Christians and Jews won't do that, they're too civilized," count yourself out of those groups -- and then say you're not promoting violence. This "stylistic expression" of yours would not be permitted in any other domain -- although it does permit you to sit back and insult people who "don't get" your fucked up wit.

Jay Tea, The ot... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Jay Tea,

The other is that Christianity and Judaism are too assimilated into modern Western culture to engage in such barbarism. They believe in civilization, in the rule of law, of a separation between the secular and the sacred, and aren't out to bring the rest of the world about to their way of thinking by the "convert or die" doctrine.


Jay, as to the moral superiority of Jews and Christians which you make constant reference to, because of recent history, I might remind you, of one if not the most significant event of the twentith century, the holocaust, that the Arabs were`t party too or gave up Jews, but in which the Nazis had a lot of aid and comfort from so called Christians, (which isn`t exactly ancient history). And in the past, longer ago yes, there were pogroms and the crusades.

Steve, no argument here. </... (Below threshold)

Steve, no argument here.

Because I'm talking about the here and now.

I don't give a flying fuck about the "historical context." And you're dead wrong on Muslim complicity in the Holocaust. Look up the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, or the role the Bosnian Muslims played. And "Mein Kampf" is still a big seller in the Muslim world.

And as one who is neither Christian or Jew, I am merely commenting on the conduct of the adherents of those faiths. Neither one of them is sending people out to kill those who insult their faiths.

Hell, there ain't enough Jews in the world to do that. Largely in thanks to the Muslims' allies in World War II.

J.

Comedy Central is bankrupt ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Comedy Central is bankrupt for original material. They are falling back on sensationalism and "potty" humore led by the moronic Stewart. I could care less what they say about my beliefs. Their ignorance will be magnified and they will hurt themselves more then I can hurt them. I will pray for them for they are lacking a core. A center. A belief that keeps them focused on doing what is right. There will always be assholes. I would wear myself out trying to beat them all. I would rather watch them destroy themselves. ww

"When will people learn ... (Below threshold)
Geoffrey Britain:

"When will people learn that violence simply begets more violence."

Tell that to the Nazi's.

"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse.  A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing that is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -- John Stuart Mill

You sir, can afford your puerile platitude because other men have fought and died and are even now so doing, which provides the protected shelter from which you dishonor their sacrifice and thus prove your unworthiness of that effort.

"And in the past, longer... (Below threshold)
Geoffrey Britain:

"And in the past, longer ago yes, there were pogroms and the crusades."

No one can defend the pogroms but the crusades, that's another matter.

The crusades were a response to constant and ongoing Muslim depredations into Christian lands.

"The founders of the other ... (Below threshold)
RandomName:

"The founders of the other two faiths weren't pedophile warlords who openly called for conversion at swordpoint, among numerous other failings."

Did you ever learn about the Crusades? How about the Inquisition? Christianity has done a good bit of fear mongering in its time.

I toyed with running this J... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

I toyed with running this JC story a week ago on Wizbang Pop, but bumped it several times for better stories or breaking news.

Apparently, Comedy Central is in the market to run the worst comedy ever aired. But, so far that honor goes to a British comedy about Hitler and Eva Braun moving next door to a Jewish family that aired for just one episode only before cancellation on the BBC.

I wouldn't get too upset about this awful new JC show. You know it's going to fail big time, where bad publicity will only prolong it as people will want to see how bad it is and boost the ratings up. Let this major league turkey die under it's weight.

Where do you guys get this ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Where do you guys get this "pedophile" stuff? Is it because Mohammed married a young girl?

Do you know how many Christian "warlords" married prepubescent girls? How many 30something Christian princesses, duchesses, etc were "married" to baby boys for dynastic purposes? What the average age of marriage was for nobility in the 7th Century?

Virtually all marriages of the movers and shakers in the Middle Ages, of all faiths, were for political, not romantic, reasons. Often, these marriages were never consummated, or the consummation was delayed for years.

Bruce, it helps if you read... (Below threshold)

Bruce, it helps if you read what I actually wrote.

I said Islam was founded by a pedophile warlord. Mohammed married Aisha when she was six years old, but let her grow up to the ripe age of 9 before consummating the union. And he was a warlord and a conqueror.

Would you like to cite the pedophile warlords who FOUNDED Judaism and Christianity? No, not propagated it or believed in it, FOUNDED.

I stand by what I said, Please don't rewrite what I said, and then rebut it.

J.

Wow. Reading all these comm... (Below threshold)
American:

Wow. Reading all these comments and the blog post, all I can say is please stop, the stupid hurts.
You idiots believe a fairy tale and are too damn blind to even look at it rationally. There is no Jesus, no God, no Allah, none of it. Its all make believe and you want to kill others over it. You petty little self absorbed insects are the maggots that infest humanity. Children too stupid to actually admit that their grown up Santa Clause isn't real.
You are suggesting terrorism just to back something you cannot prove because you believe it an everyone should respect your beliefs. Bullshit your beliefs are as subject to ridicule as anything else. Live with it, its the freedom of speech and the freedom to call stupid, stupid.

Didn't rewrite anything, Mr... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Didn't rewrite anything, Mr Tea.

If you say Aisha was 9 when the marriage was consummated, I'll take your word for it. So THAT'S where you guys get that stuff, huh?

Still, applying 21st Century standards of morality to medieval (and ancient) historical figures is kinda tricky.

Like when Abraham is fine with murdering his own son because he believes God told him to. I know that seemed like a noble expression of faith to some, but even as a little kid, when I heard that story, I thought God was kinda mean to play that trick.

And granted, these weren't religion founders, but Charlemagne, Richard I, and Prince John all took child brides; in John's case she was 10 years old. And Richard, of course, was rumored to screw little boys, too. Richard and John's father, Henry II, was a noted devotee of what we would now call jailbait.

My point wasn't about religion, it was about the era. It wasn't unusual for grown men to marry underage girls. Like I say, I'll take your word for it on the consummation thing. Although I doubt you have any proof of your assertion beyond "I read it somewhere."

"It's far better to give... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"It's far better to give them a reason to behead you first.

Or maybe you think they hate us for our freedoms?

When will people learn that violence simply begets more violence.

If you honestly want to see someone dead because their opinion makes you sadface, maybe take a little look at your own life and stop worry about others."

The reason they want to behead us NOW is because we EXIST, and do not believe as they do. That is all. That is sufficient. Convert, or die. Don't you fucking LISTEN to their rhetoric?

WE don't want to see them dead - as far as I'm concerned the vast majority of Muslims (I've worked with and for them at times) are law-abiding, gentle people. I'm a live and let-live kind of guy - but you threaten me or mine or my country and I'll respond or support the responders. I could care less who or what you worship, be it God, Jehovah, Allah, or the FSM (Praise his Noodlely Appendages!) - you're free to believe or not.

It's when you figure you can kill with impunity anyone who 'defames' Islam that I've got a problem.

What was the reasoning behind 9/11? Why was Daniel Pearl beheaded? Why do you see incessant violence between Muslim sects? Why do you see death threats to CARTOONISTS, as well as attempted firebombing, when their sensibilities are offended?

Why is their default response to any cultural offense an immediate threat of death to the offender? Do you think it's simply rhetorical?

Do you think they're tossing firebombs for the fun of it? Making prank calls? It's different than "Is your refrigerator running? Better go catch it!" or "Could you page Heywood Jablomie?" I guess - but are you so naive as to think they WOULDN'T behead the offenders if they could?

You're looking at a threat to western civilization and going "Ah, they're not serious!" I'm looking at it and going "They may not be serious, but they look like they are, and it'd be better to believe what they say - and take precautions."

Ryan, <a href="http://en.wi... (Below threshold)

Ryan, here's the story.

And while that's a nice little diversion, it doesn't really address the real issue of the here and now. You know, when Muslims are making -- and carrying out -- threats for those who dare "insult" Islam.

J.

I honestly am sickened by t... (Below threshold)
Brian:

I honestly am sickened by this post. If anyone is acting like a two year old it is the religious people of the world. Seriously, you think that you are getting the short end of the stick by allowing people to poke fun at your beliefs. Hell, the last time I checked you Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek. What in the world are you babbling about. How is it ever a "good idea" to make the world a worse place for those that share it with you. There are entire networks devoted to Christian values and run nothing but Christian shows. Guess what I don't like Christian TV shows. Do I call for a rally of blood and gore.... No I watch things that I do like. If you feel that this show will offend you then don't watch it. If you don't watch it you will not know if you should be offended by it and will never have to find out. This is the most sickeningly stupid thing that I have heard from ANY religious person and I hope that you realize that, according to your "God's" rules, by thinking it you may as well have already done it. Enjoy hell thought murderer.

*Scratches head.*B... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

*Scratches head.*

Brian #45 -

You really didn't read the post, did you?

You tawkinna me?An... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

You tawkinna me?

Anyway, how common was it, in the Arabia of the 7th Century, to engage in sexual activity with children? Seems like, if it wasn't at least fairly common, Mohammed would have suffered some opprobrium for it, wouldn't he? At the time, I mean?

So, you see, there is my issue with the common tossing around of the term "pedophile" in regard to Mohammed, here on Wizbang.

I happen to agree with you that CC is chickenshit to "blaspheme" two of the Abrahamic religions but not the third. But when it's comment # 40sumpn, I didn't think you'd mind if I went off on a tangent a little. Excuuuuse me.

You Christians calling for ... (Below threshold)
No Religion= Better World:

You Christians calling for bombings and wars really are the scum of the earth. If your hell exists, you probably have a reservation there. Destroy all religious institutions and you won't have anybody calling for any bombings over something so inconsequential as a cartoon. If your god really does exist, he's surely insulted by your opinions of his low self esteem and small intellect.

A call to arms? You've got... (Below threshold)
LOL:

A call to arms? You've got company. Pipe bombing at a mosque in Florida:

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=155937&catid=3

Bruce, it remains thus: to ... (Below threshold)

Bruce, it remains thus: to deliberately insult Christianity or Judaism is considered "edgy" and "hip" and more than acceptable.

To insult Islam is to invite violent recriminations, and leads to censorship and self-censorship.

I find the double standard absolutely unacceptable. As should anyone else.

Since a lot of people lack the testicular fortitude to demand Muslims be held to the same basic tenets of civilized behavior as the rest of the world, then the only alternative is to loose the restrictions on other faiths in "defending their honor."

I don't believe anyone will actually take up my suggestion, but by tossing it out there, I hoped to get a few people to try to defend the double standard. Instead, I got a bunch of people all obsessed with fixating on the Swiftian conceit of the piece, taking it literally, or wanting to go off on tangents.

Oh, and a number of folks who said they liked what I said there. Thanks, folks!

Oh, and I took a look at Another Frank's web site, and I don't think I'm overly comfortable with his support. And if he sticks around, I almost might have to write another piece in favor of gay marriage or discuss my "squishiness" on abortion or bash white supremacists. But that's neither here nor there.

So, Bruce, what's your angle? Am I wrong about the double standard? Am I wrong about being angered by it? Or do you just want to avoid the actual issue, and instead find some way to turn the discussion on to some more comfortable ground?

J.

Is it me or is there a tren... (Below threshold)
Mike:

Is it me or is there a trend here with a "bunch" of people misinterpreting Jay's post by inferring that he's calling for violence? Must be the same moronic troll masquerading as different posters.

Not to butt into the conver... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Not to butt into the conversation but...

"Bruce, it remains thus: to deliberately insult Christianity or Judaism is considered "edgy" and "hip" and more than acceptable.

To insult Islam is to invite violent recriminations, and leads to censorship and self-censorship."

Thus proving that self-preservation is a key component to their anger and insults. They know the possibility of being beheaded or bombed by militant Christians or Jews is about on the order of winning the Powerball lottery - while the chances of winning an all-expense paid decapitation by insulting Muslims is on the order of playing Cash 3.

So far Salman Rushdie has managed to avoid collecting on his ticket for 22 years - but the fatwa's still on his head.... preferably separated from his body.

Okay, I'm butting out now. Have fun, you two!

I only wish that CC had th... (Below threshold)
Jack Reacher:

I only wish that CC had the balls to include Mohammed in the upcoming show. Religion in general is ridiculous and should be treated like the fairy tales that they are.

Romans 12:14 (King James Ve... (Below threshold)
EccentricCanadian:

Romans 12:14 (King James Version)

Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

Matthew 5:39 (King James Version)

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I took your piece for what ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

I took your piece for what it was, Jay Tea-- humor. Satire. But don't flatter yourself. I knew Swift. Swift was a friend of mine. You, sir, are no Swift.

I agree with you that it would be unusual indeed if Jews or Christians resorted to violence over the Comedy Central shows.

That's not to say that it has never happened that Jews or Christians have done violent, insane, or just plain weird shit, and fairly recently, too.

Are you wrong about the double standard? A little. Look, Comedy Central is an organization made up of Christians and Jews (and agnostics who used to be Christians or Jews). Naturally they're gonna be funnier lampooning their own religions. If they go after Islam, they risk making a show that's about as funny as "American Carol," the most undoubtedly unfunniest movie comedy of all time.

As a former Catholic, I reserve the right to make fun of priests and the pope. And even though I'm not Catholic anymore, I still get just a wee bit offended when somebody else does it. I'll make drunk-Irishman jokes, too, but I don't wanna hear Vinnie Antolini from down the block tell 'em.

Are you wrong to be angry? I dunno, but it seems a funny thing to be angry about. As others have said, don't watch it if you don't think you'll like it. And if you want to make a show lampooning Islam, pitch it to somebody and just do it, dude. Don't bitch because no one else is doing what YOU think is a good idea.

"I took your piece for what... (Below threshold)
HughS:

"I took your piece for what it was, Jay Tea-- humor. Satire. But don't flatter yourself. I knew Swift. Swift was a friend of mine. You, sir, are no Swift."

And you , Bruce, haven't a clue how to make that point. You never knew Swift and he was never a friend of yours, but hey, nice try at the Lloyd Benson /Dan Quayle put down. You have established your Lilliputian sized intellect here, though. Carry on.

Jay, I think I agree... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

Jay,
I think I agree with Frank (comment #3). If I had written it I would have added an explanation for idiots at the end though so that it was clear that you do not want anyone to commit acts of violence. But I am a squishy coward that way and wouldn't want to risk some wacko taking it seriously or trying to use the post as an excuse for bad behavior. Of course such a post as that would not have sparked such interesting debate as this one did. And after all, you were pretty clear that was the intention of the post anyway.

It's far better to give ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

It's far better to give them a reason to behead you first.

They have a reason: We aren't muslim. To the fanatics, this is enough.

Hell, the last time I ch... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Hell, the last time I checked you Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek.

Doesn't work if it's blown off first, doesn't it, sunshine?

But I say unto you, That... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

...and then got beaten and nailed to two planks of wood for his trouble.

Sorry, I shan't be following that road.

I agree with you that it... (Below threshold)

I agree with you that it would be unusual indeed if Jews or Christians resorted to violence over the Comedy Central shows.

That's not to say that it has never happened that Jews or Christians have done violent, insane, or just plain weird shit, and fairly recently, too.

Again, Bruce, I'm talking about the here and now. I don't give a rat's ass about history. I am concerned about today, and surviving until tomorrow; yesterday isn't a priority for me.

The Muslim world is a seething cauldron of Anti-Semitism, and Israel doesn't bother going after them.

No one even got a hangnail over "Piss Christ."

re you wrong about the double standard? A little. Look, Comedy Central is an organization made up of Christians and Jews (and agnostics who used to be Christians or Jews). Naturally they're gonna be funnier lampooning their own religions. If they go after Islam, they risk making a show that's about as funny as "American Carol," the most undoubtedly unfunniest movie comedy of all time.

Now you're just making shit up again. Comedy Central SAID why they edited "South Park," and it wasn't concern about not being funny. It was concern about not being killed.

No other culture or religion features entertainment critics with bombs.

Which gives you the greater trouble, Bruce? Acknowledging this, or condemning this? Why are you so willing to excuse it by saying "Christians and Jews have done bad things, too, years and years ago?"

How long are you willing to turn a blind eye to the situation?

J.

You are concerned about the... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

You are concerned about the here and now. OK. But Comedy Central airing or not airing a show lampooning two Abrahamic religions is not a matter of your survival. So spare me the drama.

Two points. One, if you're so concerned only about the here and now, why spend time talking about the Grand Mufti during WW2? And Bosnian Muslims, though some may have helped the Nazis execute the Holocaust, are no more guilty as a group than Croatian Catholics or Orthodox Ukrainians.

Secondly, the passage of time means little to Middle Eastern culture. Many Muslims are still upset about Deir Yassin. Hell, some are still pissed about the Crusades. And Zionist Jews long to return to a land from which they were expelled two freaking thousand years ago.

You are right that CC pulled the South Park episode out of fear. So? Does that one act of fear mean that they can never again satirize anybody else? And my point is still valid that a show lampooning Islam probably wouldn't be any funnier that "American Carol" or "The 1/2 Hour News Hour." People have to know something about a subject to appreciate satire. A show satirising Islam would probably be filled with jokes about 72 virgins, bombs, and camels, and little else.

I, too, condemn anyone who attempts to stifle free expression. Of course I condemn violence and threats of violence, from whatever quarter. And of course I agree that radical Islamists are more scary than fundamentalist Christians or Jews.

But make up your mind, Mr Tea. Are you pissed at Comedy Central, at radical Islamists, or at me?

Bruce, I am multi-talented.... (Below threshold)

Bruce, I am multi-talented. I am capable of being angry at all three.

My citation of the historic ties between Islam and Nazism were in direct rebuttal to your denying them.

As far as time not meaning the same in the Muslim culture, I reject the relevance of that because I am directly concerned with their conduct in non-Muslim culture. They have a duty to abide by the minimal standards while in another culture, and that includes checking their grudges at the border.

The humor potential of Islam is something that is entirely abstract to debate. Islam has made damned sure that it will be very unlikely to happen by dint of killing or threatening to kill anyone who acts disrespectfully towards it. And you're wrong -- Laurence Simon had a cartoon series called "Ask The Prophet" where Mohammed gave advice to readers from Hell, and it was brutally funny. He pulled it after getting some very strong criticism of his humor -- in the form of death threats.

George Carlin had a routine where he pronounced that anything could be funny, if properly handled, and then proved it with a couple of very tasteless and very funny jokes about rape. (Sample: "Imagine Elmer Fudd raping Bugs Bunny." Or "Why is there no rape among Eskimos? Because it's too cold up there! Your dick would shrivel up like a stack of dimes! Plus, ever tried to get wet leather leggings off a woman who's kicking?")

Or, for example, Jeff Dunham and Achmed The Dead Terrorist. That's some brilliant stuff.

We can't get to debate your point until we address my point: that the humor potential of Islam will never be explored as long as the explorers are being threatened with being exploded.

But you're content not worrying about that. Fine. That's your right.

Just like it's my right to point out how wrong you are. Especially when you aid me in making that point so well.

J.

I wouldn`t argue with you ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

I wouldn`t argue with you about the perfidy of radical Islam, (that`s a fairly safe target), but why don`t you point out closer to home, the imbecilities of evangelical fundamentalism of the radical right, acquiesed by most of the GOP leaders.

And as for the ~the here and now ~~of Israel`s rule of law and civilized conduct mnnnnnnnnnnnn, what about the the second class rights of Arabs in Israel, the ratio of casualties in the recent Gaza conflict which were around 100 to one, 1000 Gazans to about 10 Israelis, the several incidents of war crimes by the IDF against civilians, the laying of thousands of anti-personnel land mines in Lebanon, the Israeli refusual yesterday, to allow Chomsky (a Jew) to travel to the West Bank to give a lecture etc? I will wait for the next post when you will lay out the charges of Arab barbarism.

"I wouldn`t argue with y... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"I wouldn`t argue with you about the perfidy of radical Islam, (that`s a fairly safe target), but why don`t you point out closer to home, the imbecilities of evangelical fundamentalism of the radical right, acquiesed by most of the GOP leaders."

Yeah, it's hard to miss the enforced dress codes on our city streets by squads of morality police, burquas on the beaches, the beheadings, the lunatic ways they kill people for being gay and...

Oh, wait. Wrong religion - my bad...

What's the worst thing a Christian funadamentalist can do to you? Preach at you while you're standing there? Tell you you're going to hell? MAYBE give you a tract to get you to try to change your life around? Heaven forbid an opinion be expressed that's not politically correct and agreeable to your way of thinking!

At the very worst, and most repudiated, some asshole will kill an abortion doctor. And said asshole goes to jail, to be tried in our courts, and sentenced to jail. He's not lauded as a friggin' hero by mainstream or even most fundamentalist christians - he's a criminal and treated as such.

Not so the fucker with an explosive vest. THOSE guys are lauded as heroic martyrs by the apparent majority of their co-religionists.

Going after fundamenalist Christians as the villians is like looking under a street light for your car keys after you've accidentally dropped them in a dark parking lot. The keys aren't going to be there, but the light is SO much better that you'll keep looking a long time!

I might add that not only d... (Below threshold)

I might add that not only does Islam enforce its laws on non-Muslim individuals in non-Muslim nations, it treats those nations (not just the individuals) as the offenders. You might say that's just the extremists, the terrorists, who are out for killing innocent people who happen to be the same colour and nationality as the offenders, but if that's so, where are the Muslim moderates who condemn the actions of their nations' terrorists and actually want to bring terrorists to justice?

(Your closing paragraphs are correct in their assertion that a call to arms won't work.)

Steve, when fundamentalist ... (Below threshold)

Steve, when fundamentalist Christians start killing people, THEN you'll have a case. Right now the closest we have are the Westboro Baptists, and EVERYONE agrees they're assholes -- but non-violent ones.

Re: Israel/Palestine -- would you be happier if the Israelis were less competent and precise? Or the Palestinians less inept? The discrepancy is not a sign that the Palestinians aren't trying as hard, just that they suck at terrorism. Israel, on the other hand, is very, very good at it. So good, that the fact that the Palestinian population keeps increasing so much is proof that the Israelis are NOT trying to wipe them out. The "Palestinian genocide" has to be the most incompetent genocide ever.

But back to my point: when was the last time some Fundamentalist Christians killed a significant number of people in the name of their faith? If you gotta go back more than a couple of decades, Steve, you've lost the argument.

J.

Geez. Talk about walking ri... (Below threshold)
tortoise40:

Geez. Talk about walking right into a trap.
I'd be willing to bet that during the concepting meeting for "JC," one of the execs said, "The Christians will go bonkers if we do this! Do you realize how much free pub we'll get? They'll be talking about this on Fox News weeks before we get it on the air!"

Better to let what I'm sure is an unfunny, poorly-written piece of turd masquerading as entertainment die a quick and anonymous death.

No fundamentalists or Chris... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

No fundamentalists or Christians aren`t exactly killing people in the name of their faith, perhaps the closest was in Bosnia 92-95, with indiscriminate rape and murder by the Christian Serbs on the local Muslim Bosnia population. I was really thinking of the US and the consequences that the Bush/Cheney policies, often theologically phrased or ordained, have been no less lethal, even if they don`t talk about infidels.

Jay, Bush, as told by different people, such as Jacques Chirac, invoked biblical prophesy to justify the war in Iraq. By the way, how it that going for the Christians in Iraq? What have been the (unintended) consequences for the Christian community there? Perhaps, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush should have consulted the small Christian population in Iraq before they launched the invasion.

oops, Previous <a href="htt... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

oops, Previous link to Bush, as told by different people, such as Jacques Chirac, invoked biblical prophesy to justify the war in Iraq.

(Reads Steve's blather, sha... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

(Reads Steve's blather, shakes head, walks away. Bush mentioned religion, oh teh hoRRors.)

I wholeheartedly agree with... (Below threshold)
Sleepless in Seattle:

I wholeheartedly agree with this post! We need to stand up and fight this hate speech with... with death threats? AND actual death?

Wait, what? This is what Jesus wants, right? You've run this idea by Jesus?

Jay Tea: "But back to my... (Below threshold)
Lee Ward:

Jay Tea: "But back to my point: when was the last time some Fundamentalist Christians killed a significant number of people in the name of their faith? "

Only in the right wing world is the murder of one person deemed "insignificant"...

Every anti-abortionist who murders is an example of this, jay - but no doubt because they haven't murdered "a significant number" then it's ok in your book.

Amazing... Jay Tea condones murder in the name of Christianity as long as you don't murder a "significant number" of people.




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