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Israel botches flotilla raid (UPDATED)(AGAIN)

Botches is the only word that comes to mind... it would seem that if they were going to do this, they might've done so more effectively and without the loss of life that has resulted...

They've in essence handed a propaganda bonanza to the radical Arab world.

Just dumb:

Israel's allies froze military ties and summoned its ambassadors Monday over the storming of an aid flotilla bound for Gaza, as Muslim leaders slammed the deadly raid as "criminal" and "inhuman".
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said he was "shocked" by the Israeli navy's assault on a convoy carrying hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists, lawmakers and journalists through international waters towards besieged Gaza.

Ban called on Israel to "urgently" explain itself over the raid, which Israel's Channel 10 TV left 19 passengers killed and 36 wounded, many of them Turks.

Israel's closest ally Washington described the loss of life as a "tragedy," on the eve of talks between President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

"The United States deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy," a White House spokesman said.

As the Vatican voiced "deep sadness and concern" and Middle East peace envoy Tony Blair expressed "deep regret and shock" at the loss of life, capitals across Europe summoned Israel's ambassadors to explain the assault.

Ankara responded with fury, recalling its ambassador from Tel Aviv and warning the assault would have "irreparable consequences" to bilateral ties.

Police held back angry crowds shouting "Damn Israel" outside Israel's missions to the country, as Turkey accused Israel of a "flagrant breach of international law," and "disregard for human life and peaceful initiatives."

Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc also said plans for three joint military exercises with Israel had been scrapped.

Greece, which had dozens of nationals in the convoy, pulled out of joint military exercises with Israel and cancelled a visit by its air force chief, as an aid group claimed that commandos in helicopters had fired on a Greek vessel.

Israel said its troops were attacked after they stormed six ships loaded with thousands of tonnes of aid and with hundreds of activists aboard, and that both sides used live fire.

Video shows Israeli commandos rappelling directly into the hands of those on board... makes no sense to me:

Crossposted at Brutally Honest.

UPDATE: Fausta has this video up that seems to bolster the notion that Israel made a serious mistake... sending their commandos directly into the hands of flotilla protestors... again I ask, why?

UPDATE II: As more is learned, more is understood as to Israel's use of deadly force:

And this one:

So much for reports suggesting this was some sort of peace flotilla.



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Comments (59)

Evidently the IDF assumptio... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Evidently the IDF assumption was that it was going to be 'street theater' on the part of the protesters. Until they actually started putting up a fight.

Yep, botched it. Am I 'sorry' for the protesters? No. They got exactly what they wanted.

Would it have been better i... (Below threshold)
John S:

Would it have been better if the aid ship had "accidentally" caught fire in the middle of the night? There certainly would have been more casualties once the concealed munitions aboard that Hamas-loving "peace" ship started lighting off.

I think "botched" is unfair... (Below threshold)
goddessoftheclassroom:

I think "botched" is unfair. The "peace activists" did not cooperate and in fact escalated the confrontation. The only way for the IDF to avoid casualties would have been to back down,

I think that it has been po... (Below threshold)

I think that it has been pointed out that the Israelis offered to offload the supplies at a legitimate port (Ashdod) and transport them into Gaza. The so called "peace" activists deliberately attempted to cause casualties and attacked the commandoes. The fact that commandos were wounded shows that the "activists" intended to try to kill them to begin with.

In addition, IDF forces apprehended two activists holding pistols. The activists took these pistols from IDF forces and apparently opened fire on the soldiers as evident by the empty pistol magazines. This goes some way to explaining the number of casualties as live fire was exchanged as IDF forces found themselves under severe threat as evidenced by the number of injured Israeli soldiers and the types of injuries. One soldier suffered a serious head injury, two others were injured by gunshots and one more was stabbed.

If there was any doubt that these organizations were unconcerned with universal human rights, this was confirmed by the rejection of a request from the family of Gilad Shalit for activists to pressure Hamas to allow international organizations to bring letters and food packages to the kidnapped soldier in exchange for the family's support for the international expedition's attempt to dock in Gaza.

In fact, Israel offered to transfer the supplies on the flotilla to Gaza from Ashdod port through official channels, an offer that was rejected in favor of confrontation on the part of the anti-Israel activists. As flotilla organizer Greta Berlin stated: "this mission is not about delivering humanitarian supplies, it's about breaking Israel's siege."

The flotilla was clearly warned by the Israeli Navy in advance of the boarding and the offer repeated by the IDF.

was interesting . good luck... (Below threshold)
ben:

was interesting . good luck .

The 'peace activists' got e... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

The 'peace activists' got exactly what they wanted. The liberal press will go ape shit! Don't know if the Israeli's will have the guts to put those assholes on trial and imprison them.

Were they to do that, I doubt the leaders of such "protests" will find another group of willing idiots to attempt this type of stunt again.

I can hardly wait to see wh... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

I can hardly wait to see what the Obamassiah will have to say. Maybe SecState Clinton can pull out another 'reset' button.

"Botched"? I think that wo... (Below threshold)
ParisParamus Author Profile Page:

"Botched"? I think that word is off, for it suggests that all, or virtually all of the "passengers" on these ships were not looking for a confrontation. So no, not a perfect operation, but "botched"?

The protesters were going i... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The protesters were going in support of people who want to kill innocent civilians both Jew and Christian, in the name of their muslim faith. What greater show of support than to martyr yourself in the name f the same cause?

No pity, no regret for the loss of those who serve the interests of people who would cast the world 1000 years back in time.

Video - kinda blows that 'P... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Video - kinda blows that 'PEACEFUL protester' mime:

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/video-beating-hell-out-of-israeli.html

Peace activists do not atta... (Below threshold)
Geoffrey Britain:

Peace activists do not attack with clubs, knives and guns. This was simply a ploy to increase International pressure upon Israel. A small part of an ongoing campaign to destroy Israel.

As for calling the boarding 'botched' how exactly was Israel supposed to stop the flotilla, given the 'peace' activists willingness to use violence?

There was one benefit to this however, Netanyahu was able to credibly cancel his Washington visit, which denies Obama his phony attempt to reassure American Jews that he's not Israel's enemy.

While it may sound harsh, I... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

While it may sound harsh, I use the word "botched" in the sense that you don't send a bordering party armed only with pistols and paint ball guns.

As stated earlier, I think the IDF expected "street theater". Which is what they got last time. Not armed resistance. Was everyone on those boats part of the resistance plan? Doubt it. Not even liberals are that stupid. Just as some of those hijackers on 9/11 probably were unaware the planes were going to be flown into buildings.

Good! This will give Barry ... (Below threshold)
914:

Good! This will give Barry some of his kind of fallen heroes to honor today!

God bless Israel. Once the ... (Below threshold)
chakademus:

God bless Israel. Once the decision was made to enforce the blockade they pretty much had to do what they did. The offensive 'activists' should have been ready for what happened, too bad for them. In fact, I don't know if this fits the definition, but it looks like an act of war to me and usually people die in war, preferably the enemy. All in all, not a perfect operation but a satisfactory outcome.

Why didn't the peace lovers... (Below threshold)
914:

Why didn't the peace lovers become pacifists when they were borded and shown they were bringing no homi bomb belt building materials with them? No, instead being the dumb ass' they are they upped the ante. Well they lost. Too bad.

This wasn't botched. ... (Below threshold)
epador:

This wasn't botched.

You're starting to pander to the propagandists of the evil side when you use such language. A tragedy - yes. And a very predictable one.

The IDF has previously demonstrated that they would use deadly force to stop such flotillas. The Palestinians have repeated shown they have no compunctions against using naive civilians who support them as fodder for their campaigns. What kind of leap does it take to predict such an end to this confrontation, especially when the Israeli's are increasingly isolated by Obama's anti-semitic foreign policy?

The conclusion of this episode was no Entebbe, but it was no Sherman at Chattanooga either. It is exactly what the Palestinians were looking for - more fodder to the international situation while Washington pulls the rug out from under the Israeli's; and Israel stopped the flotilla, are digging in, and have shown (for those that choose to see) the odious use of civilians by the Palestinian terrorists to further their cause..

Watching Turkey accuse Isra... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

Watching Turkey accuse Israel of a "flagrant breach of international law," and "disregard for human life and peaceful initiatives." with a blockade running flotilla is a charade on a scale that begs the question that could it be considered an act of war by Turkey?

This is just another exampl... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

This is just another example demonstrating that Israel will do whatever it takes to defend itself. Israel's raid on Entebbe also violated international law, but done at a time before the world had been brainwashed by the Islamists into believing they have a legitimate case. Their goal has always been the total destruction of Israel.

Now that the UN has cleared the way for Russia to supply Iran with its advanced air defense missile system you can expect Israel to act before those missiles become operational. Fill up your gas cans, buy extra food and if you haven't already got your money out of stocks you might want to do so soon.

Mac - I'm sure Barry has a ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Mac - I'm sure Barry has a "plan". We just have to wait until Putin tells him what it is.

The media is calling it bot... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The media is calling it botched because they are following the obama administration's line against Israel. What choice do they have? With The FTC proposing to "Reinvent Journalism" by making it a government subsidized, licensed and controlled business they have to hold to the government line.

Look at the FTC paper:
http://www.ftc.gov/opp/workshops/news/jun15/docs/new-staff-discussion.pdf

They propose taxing the public to pay for a government subsidized media. Making old line media organizations tax exempt and exempt from anti-trust laws. They also propose the notion that factual information should be proprietary. Imagine a world where you can be sued for publishing the truth because you violate someone's property rights.

Michigan is proposing the licensing of journalists. Freedom of speech will shortly be a thing of the past. Enjoy it while you can.

Michigan is proposing the l... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Michigan is proposing the licensing of journalists.

Ben Franklin just rolled over in his grave.

Now will an, until now, acquiescent media go along. Or will they realize that they just got 'targeted', like those Wall Street CEO's and bankers.

"Botched" is clearly the wr... (Below threshold)
Rick Caird:

"Botched" is clearly the wrong word. Were not 5 of the 6 ships boarded peacefully? Certainly, none of the ships were unaware they would be boarded. It appears the 6th ship was prepared to be boarded and, in spite of calling themselves "peace activists", chose to initiate conflict. The "peace activists" got what they wanted, but it was anything but peace.

Now, what do you think will happen on the next attempt to smuggle weapons to Gaza?

"It appears the 6th ship... (Below threshold)
914:

"It appears the 6th ship was prepared to be boarded and, in spite of calling themselves "peace activists", chose to initiate conflict."


That must have been the flag ship, flying the hammer and sickle and carrying all the peace loving Hamas supporters their monthly ration of Belts, bombs, bullets and other staples of daily palestinian life.

"The 'peace activists' got ... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

"The 'peace activists' got what they wanted, but it was anything but peace." Rick Caird

I don't know about that Rick, according to the news reports ten of them are real peaceful now. And they're going to stay that way.

"Reminiscent of the run-up ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Reminiscent of the run-up to the Warsaw Uprising of 1943."

You better re-read your history bryanD, "the Jewish-Polish underground trying to relieve the Warsaw Ghetto" is a figment of your imagination.

They were INSIDE the ghetto. Get it? "Relief" means coming from the OUTSIDE.

Unless of course you meant your liberal socialist buddies in the Soviet army. They were across the river. And stayed there until the Germans crushed the uprising.

please please watch this vi... (Below threshold)

please please watch this video (works only in IE)
about the violence the "activists" used

http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/114/423.html?hp=1&loc=4&tmp=9064

you can see 2 people continuously beating a soldier on the floor with iron bars
and another soldier being thrown from the upper deck to the crowd below

"you can see 2 people co... (Below threshold)
914:

"you can see 2 people continuously beating a soldier on the floor with iron bars
and another soldier being thrown from the upper deck to the crowd below"

Not to worry, They are just in training for Barrys international Brownshirt peace keepers taskforce.

<a href="http://www.youtube... (Below threshold)
To paraphrase:...the... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

To paraphrase:
...the People's Guard attacked German units near the ghetto walls and attempted to smuggle weapons, ammunition, supplies and instructions into the ghetto...

To quote your earlier:
"...Jewish-Polish underground trying to relieve the Warsaw Ghetto."

Game. Set. Match.


"Garandfan in Learning-Disa... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Garandfan in Learning-Disabled!"

An ad hominem attack already, bryanD?


Perhaps, while doing your victory dance, take a glance at what the connotation of 'relief' is in military terms. As applied to military tactics.

For example. "Repeat" does not mean "say again" in military applications.

To get back on topic - has ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

To get back on topic - has Dear Leader said anything yet?

I'm guessing something to the effect that 'I don't have all the facts, but the Israeli's acted stupidly. I have my boot on the neck of Israel'.

Perhaps Madam SecState will show up with a "reset" button. Labeled in Arabic.

The "peace" activists were ... (Below threshold)
OLDPUPPYMAX:

The "peace" activists were warned time and again. They were given an alternate method for delivery of "supplies" to their buddies. They were told in no uncertain terms that their cargoes were going to be checked. These people attacked the Israeli troops who boarded their ships, being far more interested in headlines than bringing aid to Palestinians. If 19 are dead, GOOD. Maybe there will be fewer volunteers the next time around.

When you set out to run a n... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

When you set out to run a naval blockade, you must expect to be intercepted and boarded.

Yeah, Israel "botched it" all right - should have just sunk 'em. Why put good men at risk dealing with terrorist scum?

#33Yes, I w... (Below threshold)
914:

#33


Yes, I would have sent them to the bottom of the sea in a bout 2 seconds.

On another note, I hope we are never attacked during a rainstorm, I dont think Barry would want to get his feet wet.

If you try to run a militar... (Below threshold)
Matt:

If you try to run a military blockade of a port, you must expect to be met with force. I guess the "bothced" part is that the IDF didn't just sit back and sink the ships instead of boarding and looking for contraband.

bryanD how do you see where... (Below threshold)
Michael:

bryanD how do you see where you are going with your head up your ass?

You guys blow my mind.... (Below threshold)

You guys blow my mind.

First, these ships were official Turkish vessels. So Israel attacking another nation's ships in international waters is an act of war.

Turkey had until now been one of the Middle Eastern nations with relative neutrality towards Israel. Smooth move, Israeli military. Smooth.

Second, the nation is Turkey - a member of NATO. Which officially makes this a complete mess.

Third, the Israeli commandos stormed the ships without warning. Which as even some here have noted, is really really stupid.

Fourth, and central to all of the above, is that Gaza is ***according to Israel*** not Israeli territory. So they have no more right to blockade it, than we have the right to blockade Canada.

Does this mean that Palestinians are angels? Of course not. There **are no angels here**.

But it certainly means that Israeli government is not made of geniuses, either. And that their military has acted with unbelievable callousness towards people who, even if the Israelis disagree with, were heading in to feed heal and clothe civilians.

Any of you who are professed Christians - how do you think Jesus would think of an unnannounced armed takeover of a bunch of boats who were delivering relief food and medicine supplies to starving people, with full notice, in international waters, under a white flag?

I'm sure you'll have plenty of rationalizations for why all I've just pointed out doesn't matter. What I wonder is, deep down will those rationalizations allow you to fool yourself?

Let me ask a question: ... (Below threshold)

Let me ask a question:

What could Israel's government do to Palestinians or someone trying to help them, that you might honestly consider too much?

To be consistent, many wizb... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

To be consistent, many wizbang commentators, the crazier ones -I would have sent them to the bottom of the sea in a bout 2 seconds
I guess the "botched" part is that the IDF didn't just sit back and sink the ships-
sound as have they would have condemned the Exodus and wanted it sunk for attempting to run the blockade of our ally Britain in 1947.

<a href="http://www.yourish... (Below threshold)

Summary of the Events on the Free Gaza Flotilla

Rabbi's Reasons

Rabbi David Kaufman's thoughts on Israel and Current Events in the Jewish world.

Rabbi Kaufman @ 2:33 pm

Here's the summary of the Flotilla situation that I have pieced together:
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2010/05/31/gaza-flotilla-idf-ihh-cif-turkeyisraelinternational-fallout/
Please watch the video of the soldiers being attacked IMMEDIATELY upon boarding Mavi Marmara by "non-violent" protesters.
1. The Free Gaza Movement organized the flotilla but did not control all of the ships and it could not vouch for the contents of the ships or necessarily the activists on board each ship. The ostensible leader of the flotilla said that Israel would have to stop them by force.
2. The flotilla was supposed to be a non-violent protest and its passengers non-violent protesters. This proved horribly untrue on ONE of the ships, the Mavi Marmara. NO VIOLENCE TOOK PLACE ON ANY OTHER VESSEL.
3. The Mavi Marmara was controlled by the IHH, a Turkish organization that is known for outspoken support of Hamas and terrorism against Israel.
4. At least several passengers on the Marmara were NOT non-violent protesters but VIOLENT ones and PLANNED TO USE VIOLENCE if boarded. Significant amounts of weaponry were readied on the ship designed to attempt to repel an assault at a minimum or to capture or kill members of an IDF boarding party.
5. The moment IDF soldiers boarded the Marmara they came under attack by numerous people with metal bars, boards, and evidently knives as seen clearly in the video at the link provided above. IDF soldiers did NOT "immediately open fire on civilians" as reported by the Free Gaza movement. This is additionally clearly proven untrue by the fact that no violence occurred on any other ship boarded by the Israelis.
6. The IDF soldiers had riot suppression gear including paint guns as their primary means of response. They also carried handguns, but no heavier weaponry.
7. At least two soldiers were incapacitated by the mob on the Marmara immediately and at least one handgun was taken from a soldier and turned against other soldiers. Another soldier reported receiving fire from a second location from a RIFLE.
8. While this was going on soldiers were being beaten about the head and body by the mob and it was clear that the situation was now life threatening, especially taken in conjunction with the use of guns against the soldiers.
9. There was no chance to withdraw to de-escalate the situation because IDF soldiers were in mortal danger and at the time possibly on the verge of death, "lynching," as one authority reported.
10. Soldiers were then given an order to use live fire to defend themselves and their comrades.
11. It is unclear exactly how the deaths of those who died occurred. They could have been killed deliberately in self defense, accidentally by stray fire in close quarters, or accidentally by the activists themselves attempting to fire on Israeli soldiers. The IDF reports the accurate death total as NINE, mostly from Turkey.
12. It is clear that the IDF had no intention of using violence against the flotilla and that the violence was instigated by the passengers on board the Marmara.
13. It is possible that the Marmara carried more than humanitarian supplies and that those who knew were willing to fight to deter its capture. It is also possible that the passengers anticipated the IDF assault on the ship by relatively weakly armed soldiers and intended to capture and hold Israeli soldiers as hostages. Regardless, whatever was intended by the level of resistance on board the Marmara failed because of the training of the IDF soldiers who unfortunately for the protesters responded appropriately and immediately.
14. There is no little bit of international condemnation of Israel on this issue. Much of it is to appease Turkey and the Arab League. However, should the United States fail to defend Israel on its actions during this event, it will encourage future and much more dangerous encounters in the future.
15. The US should say, "Upon obtaining a clear understanding of what occurred on board the Marmara, the United States feels that the response of Israeli soldiers to a life threatening situation was both appropriate and proportional and that had it not been so many more lives would have been lost. The violence on board the ship theoretically carrying non-violent protesters was instigated by the passengers, not by the soldiers who boarded out of a legitimate concern for Israel's security. The history of weapons smuggling by Hamas gave Israel every necessary concern to prevent these ships from reaching land. Without peace, both sides face a bleak future."

http://rabbikaufman.blogspot.com/2010/05/summary-of-events-on-mavi-marmara.html

"Any of you who are profess... (Below threshold)
CAROL:

"Any of you who are professed Christians - how do you think Jesus would think of an unnannounced armed takeover of a bunch of boats who were delivering relief food and medicine supplies to starving people, with full notice, in international waters, under a white flag?"

He would tell them that since they don't have anything to hide (right?) that they should obey the law, allow their things to be checked and then transferred to the "Palestinians". After all they were not denying them humanitarian aid that was coming on those ships.....only that which is not humanitarian in nature....you know, like weapons to attack Israel and such. Israel also ACTIVELY gives them humanitarian aid on a daily basis.

When you lie and refuse to acknowledge that what the "peace activists" did - attacking Israel's soldiers, and running the blockade, was wrong you lose all credibility.....not with just this issue but all others.

He'd also confront you for lying about an "unannounced armed takeover" since Israel was very clear that they would not be allowed to run the blockade and that their cargo would be searched and then trucked to the "Palistinians".

So I suppose the IDF has th... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

So I suppose the IDF has the right to board ships with scores of masked, armed commandos by helicoptor, at 330am in international waters, 80 miles from occupied Gaza anytime, it feels like it. That is self regulation, or a law undo itself, that would be the envy of BP.

Steve, don't play the ignor... (Below threshold)
Mike Lorey:

Steve, don't play the ignorant ass. The ships were previously announced as headed for Gaza with the intent to break the blockade. There is no dispute over what their purpose was there.

The behavior of the "protestors" clearly justified deadly force for self defense. Now that they've been exposed as enemy combatants, I say sink em.

This was well within intern... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

This was well within international waters and the blockade is definitely not sanctioned by the UN , even if the assault occurred within a couple miles of the occupied territory, which is not part of Israel in any event. Have you ever thought the behavior of the IDF might justify self-defense for those onboard the humanitarian ships?
I remember in 67 the Israeli Foreign Secretary called the Egyptian partial blockade of the southern port of Israel 'an act or war' which justified reprisals- the launching of the six day war. By the way those Hamas rockets have stopped. The siege or blockade of Gaza will stop one day, this might be the first step. This was why the IDF was so worried and reacted so brazenly.

Umm, Steve...: ... (Below threshold)
JB:

Umm, Steve...:

Monday, May 31, 2010

Law Expert Dr Robbie Sabel IDF action in international waters legal

Int'l Law Expert Dr. Robbie Sabel: IDF action in international waters legal

Dr. Aaron Lerner Date: 31 May 2010

IMRA asked Hebrew University international law expert Dr. Robbie Sabel about the legality of the IDF action in international waters.

Dr. Sabel explained that a state, in a time of conflict, can impose an embargo, and while it cannot carry out embargo activities in the territorial waters of a third party, it can carry out embargo activities in international waters.

Within this framework it is legal to detain a civilian vessel trying to break an embargo and if in the course of detaining the vessel, force is used against the forces carrying out the detention then that force has every right to act in self defense.

Dr. Sabel noted that there is a long history of embargo activities in international waters.

Dr. Aaron Lerner, Director IMRA (Independent Media Review & Analysis)

I really am interested, bec... (Below threshold)

I really am interested, because I want to understand.

What would Israel actually have to do as a nation, for most of you on this site to consider it too much?

Let's say, hypothetically, that this was an American set of ships. And that the Israeli's invaded these American ships at night, in international waters, without warning, to stop them from reaching a territory that wasn't Israel's like Gaza. And a bunch of American civilians were killed.

Would that be too much?

Jim x, if the American Flot... (Below threshold)
epador:

Jim x, if the American Flotilla was a current presidential contingent bent on supporting a Palestinian force by landing at Gaza, I would favor it, including the use of deadly force.

Well Epador, let's say it w... (Below threshold)

Well Epador, let's say it was a previous president, George W. Bush, who had sent some food and medicine to Palestinian civilians on US ships. And Israel invaded them at night in international waters, killing several US civilians.

Would that be too much, or would that be alright?

Or forget my example. Tell ... (Below threshold)

Or forget my example. Tell me what Israel would actually have to do, to go too far.

The UN is irrelevant - mari... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

The UN is irrelevant - maritime law is established by tradition and treaty, not by the UN. Good thing, too, isn't it? Why have a nest of thieves and despots making the rules?

There isn't any question of these vessels being innocent traffic - they announced their intentions to violate the Israeli embargo and run the blockade.

jim_x's plaintive cry of "What would Israel actually have to do as a nation, for most of you on this site to consider it too much?" would be funny if it weren't so evil in intent. Of course, the ONLY concessions in this long conflict which were ever actually implemented are those made by Israel. The Palestinians have broken every significant promise they have ever made in the "peace process," continue to plot to murder innocent Israeli civilians, and continue to deny Israel's right to exist.

It is only in the sick, perverted, anti-Semitic eyes of the Left and their muslim allies that Israel is the bad actor in the Middle East.

jim x - ""What would ... (Below threshold)
Marc:

jim x - ""What would Israel actually have to do as a nation, for most of you on this site to consider it too much?""

Here's a better and relevant question:

Egypt performs the very same embargo on Gaza as Israel why isn't the "outrage" about that?

Israel is excoriated by half the planet for an embargo to prevent weapons supplying the Hamas terrorists yet no one says word one about Egypt.

jim_x's plaintive cry of... (Below threshold)

jim_x's plaintive cry of "What would Israel actually have to do as a nation, for most of you on this site to consider it too much?" would be funny if it weren't so evil in intent.

Oh, now I'm evil for asking a question, eh? Interesting that you see that as evil.

Is there something that frightens you, about answering that question? Tell the truth and shame the devil. What would Israel have to do, for you to say they've gone too far?

Egypt performs the very ... (Below threshold)

Egypt performs the very same embargo on Gaza as Israel why isn't the "outrage" about that?

You tell me. How many foreign ships in international waters delivering food and medicine has Egypt stormed, resulting in apparently at least ten deaths?

The answer as far as I know, is zero.

That's why Egypt isn't receiving the same amount of outrage here.

Now I've answered your question; do you have the nerve to answer mine?

What would Israel have to do, for it to be too much for you to support?

It is only in the sick, ... (Below threshold)

It is only in the sick, perverted, anti-Semitic eyes of the Left and their muslim allies that Israel is the bad actor in the Middle East.

It is only in the sick, perverted, poopoo-doody-headed eyes of Jim Addison that this above quote somehow passes as some kind of rational answer.

When it really is both an ad hominem attack, and a rationalization for not answering a question that actually might require some introspection.

Addison burnt out during th... (Below threshold)
Lee Ward:

Addison burnt out during the 2008 campaign and has been a walking ghost-of-himself ever since. He repeats ad hominems and bullet points like a senile parrot.

He's the walking wounded...

jim x - "You tell me. H... (Below threshold)
Marc:

jim x - "You tell me. How many foreign ships in international waters delivering food and medicine has Egypt stormed, resulting in apparently at least ten deaths?"

As is your norm you miss the point, willfully or other wise, ships is the point but I trust you knew that and are just playing dumb.

The embargo itself is the point whether land based or seaborne.

Egypt conducts the same inspection of goods going inot Gaza yet Israel is the one cathing hell for it.

Why isn't there Arab neighbor getting it as well?

What would I say is Israel's limit in protecting themselves? Fuck if I know, it's a hypothetical that can't be answered with any reasonable accuracy.

And BTW this whole "poor poor Palestinian" sob story is just that, they receive more international aid per capita than any population in the entire world.

What they fail to receive is stolen by their corrupt leadership and turned into arms to lob across the boarder into Israel.

As is your norm you miss... (Below threshold)

As is your norm you miss the point, willfully or other wise, ships is the point but I trust you knew that and are just playing dumb.

No, actually, you miss the point. You are misinterpreting me, because you don't want to think about the answer.

Once again, why is the world complaining about Israel and not Egypt?

Because Egypt hasn't killed fifteen people while "inspecting cargo" - in the middle of the night, rappelling from a helicopter.

What would I say is Israel's limit in protecting themselves? Fuck if I know, it's a hypothetical that can't be answered with any reasonable accuracy.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm asking, what is the limit that **you**, ***personally*** would feel comfortable with.

How far would Israel have to go, for you to personally think that they've gone too far?

Doncha just love it when th... (Below threshold)

Doncha just love it when the Israelis get the "international community's" stick for daring to defend themselves against yet another of the sister, goat and little boy buggering, sexually mutilating, mass-murdering, psychopathologically hesperophobic seventh century barbarians and their legions of usefully idiotic fellow traveling stage yet another Rachel Cory-esque hold-back-the-bulldozer burlesque - this time with knives, pick handles and crowbars.

For G-d's sake, Bibi, once and for ever, please rid the Nation of Israel, Judea, Samaria and Gaza included, of the manifestation of evil, Islamanazism -- and of the cancer that calls itself "palestine."

Just noting at this point t... (Below threshold)

Just noting at this point that no one on this entire page had the nerve to directly answer my question.

That could be a good thing. That could mean that, at least some level you don't want to admit, that you realize Israel has gone to far already.




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