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Utah List Leak Suspects Identified

Authorities in Utah say they have identified two suspects who they believe released that list of 1300 alleged illegal aliens, complete with names, addresses, Social Security numbers, work places, and -- in some cases -- pregnant women's due dates.

As expected, the two are state workers in the division that handles food stamps and other welfare programs. They apparently had strong opinions about illegal aliens (the article doesn't specify, but the implication is that they weren't that fond of them), and have been placed on "administrative leave" -- but not whether or not it's paid or unpaid leave.

Under Utah law, releasing a private record can get you up to six months in jail and up to a $1,000 fine. If you steal it to release it, it goes up to one year and $5,000.

I'd like to see these two people get charged with about 1,300 counts of each.

Apparently, in Utah illegal aliens can get certain forms of welfare benefits -- and the state notes their immigration status. These two suspects had access to that information.

It's also worth noting that at least a few people on that list have stated publicly that they are in the United States legally. My hunch is that at least one media outlet that got the list called a few people and said "hey, you're on this list of alleged illegal aliens. Are you here illegally?"

Watch for the left to jump all over this story, now that it seems likely that the leakers were against illegal immigration. And god help us if either of them ever attended a Tea Party. They will be used to smear the entire pro-legal-immigration-only side, much like that census worker who staged his suicide to look like a lynching was blamed on the right.

Personally, I don't care. I only heard/saw a few people sticking up for the distribution of the list. Most people either denounced it or said nothing. But it's almost sad, how predictable the left will be over this.


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Comments (52)

Come to America, free stuf... (Below threshold)
GianiD:

Come to America, free stuff for everyone, we'll just tax the rich to pay for it.

Prediction: Utah will stop ... (Below threshold)
Anon Y. Mous:

Prediction: Utah will stop collecting the immigration status of its welfare recipients. Democrats, RINOs and others who claim to be tough on illegal immigration, but never seem to want to actually do anything about it will rest happy in their knowledge that this "outrage" will never be repeated.

Maybe Utah should just stop... (Below threshold)
Michael:

Maybe Utah should just stop giving benefits to illegal aliens.

So once again government of... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

So once again government officials have been caught LYING to the public?

"WE CAN'T FIND THEM!"

As for the 'legality' of releasing the names. Sorry but I've become numb to such actions. The owner/editor of a major newspaper releases information damaging covert LEGAL US access to information that might curtail terrorists attacks. State bureaucrats release personal info on a citizen because he had the timidity to be NOT impressed with candidate Obama.

You want me to go on?

Cut out all the jobs and ha... (Below threshold)
TexBob:

Cut out all the jobs and handouts, and Mexico will export their poor and illiterate population elsewhere. The illegal Democrats that are here will self deport with the freebies and jobs dry up. No need to buy bus tickets either.

I wonder if Utah has a whis... (Below threshold)
Anon Y. Mous:

I wonder if Utah has a whistleblower law. It would be nice if the state workers have a defense...

I support what they did as ... (Below threshold)
Trump:

I support what they did as a public service.

I also support their jailing, as knowingly breaking the law has consequences.

Wow so two state workers we... (Below threshold)

Wow so two state workers were able to identify 1300 "illegal" workers in nearly no time at all.

And everyone and their brother think they are now the evil ones?

There are said to be as many as 20 million "undocumented" workers, workers without paper, ILLEGAL workers in this country driving down the wages American workers can expect and taking jobs Americans will do.

Go ahead and keep beating the drums for the corporate masters who enjoy using illegal workers to undercut pay scales American workers have to have to not live on the street.

But don't try and wrap it in some caring for the poor and downtrodden workers. We have many of those right here in America competing to get jobs that illegal immigrants are taking.

Company over citizen. Its the America way.

I thought citizens were req... (Below threshold)
Oldflyer:

I thought citizens were required--or at least encouraged-- to report criminal activity. Residing in the U.S. illegally, and illegally obtaining government benefits, seems to qualify as crimes worth reporting. Government complicity and cover-up of .those crimes requires extraordinary action.

Jay Tea's wrong headed thinking is symptomatic of many of our problems.

Oldflyer:The main ... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Oldflyer:

The main point flew right past you, didn't it?

Test... (Below threshold)
jainphx:

Test

Sorry but my last post was... (Below threshold)
jainphx:

Sorry but my last post was refused, said I was banned. the State knows who the illegals are and wont do anything about it.

Sorry JT, just not buying i... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Sorry JT, just not buying into the 'sympathy' routine. Yeah it was 'illegal', as 'illegal' as the other incidents I mentioned.

AND NO ONE WENT TO JAIL OVER THOSE.

If anyone ever took the time to count; if you're working in this country AND you're here illegally, you've already broken more that two laws. How many more 'freebies' are you entitled to?

More geniuses that never he... (Below threshold)
mojo:

More geniuses that never heard of an audit trail.

I just can't wait until the... (Below threshold)
jim m:

I just can't wait until the government has full control of health care then disgruntled government employees can start releasing the private medical records of people belonging to groups they dislike.

You cannot break the law gi... (Below threshold)
ron:

You cannot break the law giving out information on a criminal.

It's not the way to go abou... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

It's not the way to go about it for a "whistleblower." You make copies of the information (and the medical stuff is completely unnecessary), take one in person to the US Attorney's office or, if this is a violation of Utah law as well, to the AG. Take a copy to your personal attorney, too, and keep your darned mouth SHUT.

Media leaking isn't an option, and if the consequences are harsh, they should have consulted attorneys before doing it.

So much for the whackjob a... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

So much for the whackjob and/or pro-illegal immigrant-plant theory.

Adrian, that was always my ... (Below threshold)

Adrian, that was always my "B" explanation. And considering how many "false flag" operations -- hell, look at the Think Progress video that features a "Crash The Tea Party" asshole prominently, passing him off as a real Tea Partier -- it was entirely plausible.

To the rest of you: you're all presuming that the list is 100% accurate. I seriously doubt that it is. It included 1,300 names -- you wanna bet that it's perfect? That's a fool's bet. Especially since it included Social Security numbers -- to me, that is a hell of a good indicator that the person is here legally.

If the list has a single error on it, then it's critically flawed and seriously dangerous. (For a humorous take on one possible outcome, review Cheech Marin's "Born In East LA.")

I'm normally not a fan of those who demand absolute perfection, but in a case where the list is put together in gross violation of privacy and confidentiality laws, I am seriously afraid of the consequences of using this list in anything except a prosecution.

J.

Adrian, this is the second ... (Below threshold)

Adrian, this is the second time you've busted on me for theorizing and speculating and predicting on this story. Are you perhaps unaware of the definition of a "blogger," and confusing me with a (spit) "journalist?"

Dude, theorizing and speculating and predicting and opining are what I do. I give the facts, offer my opinion, and then spell out what led me to that conclusion. Sometimes, to shake it up, I'll reverse the last two and lead people to draw the conclusion with me, but that's giving up trade secrets.

Don't like it? Feel free to get lost. But don't piss and moan about a blogger blogging on a blog. It just makes you look stupid and petty.

Unless, of course, that was your intention...

J.

"So much for the whackjo... (Below threshold)
914:

"So much for the whackjob and/or pro-illegal immigrant-plant theory"

So much room for growth, so little time..

"I'd like to see these two ... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"I'd like to see these two people get charged with about 1,300 counts of each."

650-1300 years in prison? You need a little perspective:

"The State Department is bracing for a potentially explosive new feature on the Washington Post website that would publish the names and locations of agencies and firms conducting Top Secret work on behalf of the U.S. government, according to the copy of an email obtained by The Cable." -foreignpolicy.com

...for which no one will go to jail, no newspapers will be shunned.

If any laws were broke then punish the guilty, but keep it in perspective.

650-1300 years ... (Below threshold)
650-1300 years in prison? You need a little perspective
Speaking of perspective, I rather doubt any judge would require someone convicted of 1,300 counts of that offense to serve the sentences consecutively.
Adrian, how is whack job ou... (Below threshold)
John:

Adrian, how is whack job out of play in this situation, do you know these 2 aren't whacky? As far as that's concerned based on the complete lack real facts about these 2 I'm not all that sure that false flag ops is out of play, after all they do work for the gov and probably belong to a union (which is where they might have learned these tatics.) Is there no possibility that a left leaning person could oppose illegal immigration? But I guess if you're just going to do drive bys you can't really think that deeply.

Gee, Ryan, would you enlig... (Below threshold)
Oldflyer:

Gee, Ryan, would you enlighten me please?

Riehl has a more thoughtful... (Below threshold)
gary gulrud:

Riehl has a more thoughtful take:

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2010/07/great-list-of-illegals-came-from-utah-foodstamp-public-benefit-lists.html

Hiring illegals at a quarter the wage in construction, etc., was a significant boot in the HUD sponsored financial crash.

Civil disobedience is going to rise when 2010 election results merely highlight our inability to turn the DC ship-of-state.

So, let's see if I get this... (Below threshold)

So, let's see if I get this: The National Socialist "Democratic" potty's fascists import a fifteen to forty-million strong criminal alien invasion force which successfully invades and then sets about the hostile colonization of great swathes of our nation? And some brave Americans publish a couple of the invading army's names -- and for their brave stand are excoriated and risk being hounded into prison?

Go figger.

#27Yeah, th... (Below threshold)
914:

#27


Yeah, that about sum's it up.

"Gee, Ryan, would you enlig... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"Gee, Ryan, would you enlighten me please?"

Do you really think that this is the way to deal with this? Sending out unverified lists of suspected illegal immigrants (including personal medical records, etc) to the media? Do you want to encourage people to start making public accusations about people THEY THINK are breaking the law? Really?

What about due process? What about the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing? You see, even alleged lawbreakers have rights. Even accused murderers have rights. Why do we have this system, instead of just trotting out all accused people and prosecuting them on the spot? Just in case the accusation is wrong. This system, although slow and sometimes really tedious, also protects YOUR RIGHTS. Don't forget that.

What if it comes out (and I think Jay mentioned this already) that some people were mistakenly put on the list? Tough shit for them?

There is a reason why we have trained law enforcement officers. And there is a reason why our legal system works the way it does. If you read what the ICE said in Jay's first post about this, you will see that they are not going around doing indiscriminate sweeps. The ICE is targeting the biggest threats to communities and going after them.

People get so worked up about immigration that they start losing their heads.

"So, let's see if I get thi... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"So, let's see if I get this: The National Socialist "Democratic" potty's fascists import a fifteen to forty-million strong criminal alien invasion force which successfully invades and then sets about the hostile colonization of great swathes of our nation?"

Right, this is all because of some grand plan by the Democrats. Great thinking. How do you explain the presence of undocumented immigrants during the GW Bush presidency? What about earlier administrations?

How do you feel about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_zNR53k5Lg&NR=1

Don't oversimplify the issues just to fit your political agenda. People are not coming here to take over the US in some sort of "hostile colonization" effort. That assertion is hilarious. Yes, the immigration issue is a problem, and we need to deal with it. But there is no need to devolve into paranoia over it.

"Don't oversimplify the ... (Below threshold)
914:

"Don't oversimplify the issues just to fit your political agenda. People are not coming here to take over the US in some sort of "hostile colonization" effort"

No. The enemy is within.

Ok 914, who do you see as t... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Ok 914, who do you see as the enemy, and why?

Schindler's list ? Any east... (Below threshold)
raym:

Schindler's list ? Any eastern europeans on the list ? or they dont count . stupid stuff like this always backfires , the tea party will look the other way when its lockup time .

so , gas them , you F*&^* N... (Below threshold)
jon:

so , gas them , you F*&^* Nazis !

whats the penalty for comin... (Below threshold)
Dave WDave W:

whats the penalty for coming to this country illegally, and why is THAT not an outrage any more? They are the real criminals here. As far as i'm concerned, if you're here illegally, and you're accessing welfare, you have NO right to privacy.

"whats the penalty for comi... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"whats the penalty for coming to this country illegally, and why is THAT not an outrage any more? They are the real criminals here."

Yes, it's illegal to enter the country without proper documentation, and we have about 12 million undocumented immigrants. So yes, they broke the law. Now what? What ideas do you have for ICE? What do you think should be done to fix this situation?

Jay,. T... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

Jay,

. To the rest of you: you're all presuming that the list is 100% accurate. I seriously doubt that it is. It included 1,300 names -- you wanna bet that it's perfect? That's a fool's bet. Especially since it included Social Security numbers -- to me, that is a hell of a good indicator that the person is here legally.

If only that were true.
They could
A) fraudulent (which would require the state to report it)
B) They could start with 9 and be ITIN which the IRS issues which does not check current status.
C) The SSA could have issues it to people who should not be working in the USA.


http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/ssnchron.html

Section 414 required the Commissioner to report to Congress every year, the aggregate number of SSNs issued to noncitizens not authorized to work, but under which earnings were reported. Also required the Commissioner to transmit to the Attorney General a report on the extent to which SSNs and Social Security cards are used by noncitizens for fraudulent purposes.
.


Anyway the workers broke the law and the law requires they face punishment.
The law also requires that those who are here illegally and collect benefits be deported and pay back the US taxpayer.

I am all for doing what the law requires.

Rather than bemoan the publ... (Below threshold)
OLDPUPPYMAX:

Rather than bemoan the publication of the list, why not demand to know WHY American taxpayers are SUPPORTING illegals? To a greater extent than USUAL, that is!!

Max, Why do you th... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Max,

Why do you think there are 12 million undocumented migrants here in the US? Why do you think that the ICE is not performing massive sweeps to indiscriminately remove each and every one of them?

Also, do you think that migrants are a net drain on the US economy? Do you think that the presence of illegal immigrants is one of THE most important economic issues that we are facing today?

What sources do you usually use to look into this issue? Feel free to pass them along. Thanks!

I am surprised at the peopl... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

I am surprised at the people involved but we have yet to learn their motive. As far as the Tea Party getting blamed, that will happen whether these nuts attended one or not. The "plan" is already announced. We are racists.

As far as "the enemy within" which I agree with.

1-They are here illegally breaking the law right out of the chute.
2- They cause an enormous stress on States budgets in particular schools, healthcare and free lunch and breakfast programs.
3-Legal Immigrants have to be sponsered.
4-Illegal immigrants bring disease. TB has made a huge comeback in the border states.
5-I am a tax payer and I do not want to sponser illegal acts.
6- I have to follow the rule of law.
7-The are many thousands of people planning on immigrating to the USA and are going through the process the correct and legal way. We should respect that.
8-The US should never support bad behavior.

There is no upside to illegal immigration. None whatsoever. It has to stop. The dems can lose their souls for votes if they want, but right is right. ww

"Don't oversimplify the iss... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

"Don't oversimplify the issues just to fit your political agenda. People are not coming here to take over the US in some sort of "hostile colonization" effort. That assertion is hilarious. Yes, the immigration issue is a problem, and we need to deal with it. But there is no need to devolve into paranoia over it." - ryan a

ryan, you're such a nuanced guy. But you need to back up a bit, something in the range of 1000+ miles. The illegals here are not a "immigration issue." Their presence has nothing to do with immigration.

Their presence has everything to do with law breaking and they must be dealt with as such. They are just like every other common criminal, no better, no worse. There are laws that cover immigration and there are laws that cover those who choose to ignore/break them. Just follow the law.

Upset Old Dude,"Th... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Upset Old Dude,

"The illegals here are not a "immigration issue." Their presence has nothing to do with immigration."

This sounds strange, but I think I know what you're getting at with this. Next.

"Their presence has everything to do with law breaking and they must be dealt with as such. They are just like every other common criminal, no better, no worse."

Alright. So what's your plan? Do you think all 12 million people should be removed immediately or what? How do you propose the US govt goes about this? Armed roundups? Forced migration? How do you think this will affect the economy? You think everything will be just peachy after we kick them illegals out?

My main man WildWillie,... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

My main man WildWillie,

1-They are here illegally breaking the law right out of the chute.

Ok. I can understand that complaint.

2- They cause an enormous stress on States budgets in particular schools, healthcare and free lunch and breakfast programs.

How big is this stress? How does this balance out with the overall economic effect of undocumented/illegal immigrant populations? What source do you use?

3-Legal Immigrants have to be sponsered.

Right.

4-Illegal immigrants bring disease. TB has made a huge comeback in the border states.

So how do you know that the TB problem is all because of ILLEGAL immigrants. The WHO reports that I have read say nothing about the legal status of people. Tijuana, for example, is a massive border crossing that people use on a daily basis. How do you know that TB isn't just being transmitted by all of the traffic that crosses?

5-I am a tax payer and I do not want to sponser illegal acts.

Again, I can understand this.

6- I have to follow the rule of law.

Yes, you do. Now, I have a question for you. Since even convicted criminals retain certain rights, what rights do immigrants who migrate here illegally have? How severe is the crime of entering the country illegally to work, and what should be done about it? Should people who overstay their visas be punished the same as people who hop the fence in San Diego? Should people who enter the US to sell cocaine be treated the same as people who come here to work in fields and hotels?

7-The are many thousands of people planning on immigrating to the USA and are going through the process the correct and legal way. We should respect that.

Indeed, we should. Respect granted. Should we also ask them how if there are ways to streamline or improve the process, or should we just assume that its A-OK?

8-The US should never support bad behavior.

That's a pretty general statement but I can understand your point here.

2- They cause an enormou... (Below threshold)

2- They cause an enormous stress on States budgets in particular schools, healthcare and free lunch and breakfast programs.

How big is this stress? How does this balance out with the overall economic effect of undocumented/illegal immigrant populations? What source do you use?

The balancing is a false argument. The benefits don't enter the picture, because we never agreed to the tradeoff. In legal terms, there is no contract because there was no agreement beforehand.

Further, the "net gain" does not offset the losses. The cheap labor and unclaimed taxes don't go straight to the hospitals who've had to close their ERs from illegal aliens and unpaid bills.

J.

Jay Tea,"The balan... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Jay Tea,

"The balancing is a false argument. The benefits don't enter the picture, because we never agreed to the tradeoff. In legal terms, there is no contract because there was no agreement beforehand."

I'm not arguing that it somehow automatically balances out, Jay. But if we are going to start bringing up the costs of illegal immigrants, then we should look at all sides of the economic situation. By no means am I arguing that all of the correct funds end up where they should--god knows they don't. But if people want to start talking about the economics of it all, by all means let's look into it.

"The cheap labor and unclaimed taxes don't go straight to the hospitals who've had to close their ERs from illegal aliens and unpaid bills. "

Granted. But if we're going to actually find some kind of solution these immigration and labor issues we are going to have to look into these kinds of fiscal networks. If people are over here working and paying some form of social security taxes it would make sense--to me--to find a way to use that fund for their own health care in some kind of guest worker program.

I am back Ryan. Your answe... (Below threshold)
Oldflyer:

I am back Ryan. Your answer is no answer. I have noticed that your response to every poster who doesn't agree with you is a litany of questions..

I do not necessarily condone what the employees in question did; but the fact is they have not been tried, so we do not know whether they are guilty of anything. This whole discussion began with Jay Tea wanting to send them up the river for a goodly portion of their lives. I, along with a few others, wonder what motivated them. Are they in a position to observe that our system is being systematically corrupted with the acquiesence of the very bureauacracies that are supposed to protect it? We don't know at this point. And that was actually my point. If they have broken a law then take appropriate action, and consider elements of guilt as well as those of mitigation.

I also tend to wonder how many folks who want to hang this pair would support the same fate for the editors of the NY Times and others who have published classified information that endangered U.S. citizens. But, that is a side issue.

In the mean time the discussion has wondered off into the usual BS about the economic benefits of illegal workers. I do not agree with that fallacious argument. The danger of letting your society habitually ignore the law, and tolerate corruption is potentially lethal.

As to whether I would deport 12 million illegals. That is a straw man. Most people who are concerned about the illegal alien issue take a position similar to this: 1. stop the bleeding at the border 2. stabilize the situation 3. enforce the laws regarding right to work and access to benefits of citizenship (and watch the negative migration develop). 4. Then have a debate about how to manage the vestigial problem. 5, Do not, under any circumstances, tolerate sanctuary cities and other flagrant flaunting of the laws of the country.

"46. Posted by Oldflyer | J... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"46. Posted by Oldflyer | July 17, 2010 11:14 PM"

Well said, OF.

Oldflyer,"Your ans... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Oldflyer,

"Your answer is no answer. I have noticed that your response to every poster who doesn't agree with you is a litany of questions."

It's called dialog. If I don't know something, or if I want to see what people think about something, I ask. I don't see the problem with that. It tends to work better than insults.

"I do not necessarily condone what the employees in question did; but the fact is they have not been tried, so we do not know whether they are guilty of anything."

Good point, especially since a lot of people are talking about law.

"We don't know at this point. And that was actually my point. If they have broken a law then take appropriate action, and consider elements of guilt as well as those of mitigation."

Again, good point. I agree.

"But, that is a side issue."

A side issue, but definitely relevant, IMO.

"In the mean time the discussion has wondered off into the usual BS about the economic benefits of illegal workers. I do not agree with that fallacious argument."

What, that there are certain economic benefits--and costs--of immigration, whether legal or illegal? Of course there are benefits in an economic sense, otherwise there would be no migrants here or employers hiring them or people buying the services and products they produce. At the same time, there are also costs, economic and otherwise.

"The danger of letting your society habitually ignore the law, and tolerate corruption is potentially lethal."

Agreed.

"As to whether I would deport 12 million illegals. That is a straw man."

Not a straw man. It's called a question. Besides, I don't believe I actually asked you that question [that was for Upset Old Guy, who I called "Dude" for some reason].

"Most people who are concerned about the illegal alien issue take a position similar to this: 1. stop the bleeding at the border 2. stabilize the situation 3. enforce the laws regarding right to work and access to benefits of citizenship (and watch the negative migration develop). 4. Then have a debate about how to manage the vestigial problem. 5, Do not, under any circumstances, tolerate sanctuary cities and other flagrant flaunting of the laws of the country."

I can't speak for "most people," but I'll take this as your position. And I can understand your points, even if I might disagree with some of the details. Thanks for your response. It's always good to get a little beyond the usual banter and see what people actually think should be done.

I don't understand why we c... (Below threshold)
John:

I don't understand why we can not do a much better job of border enforcement. I also don't understand why having 12 million illegals here already means we can't do anything about that. The argument always seems to be what do you propose to do with the 12 million here already? If we really wanted to deal with this problem we could, they come here for a reason take that reason away and they will have no reason to be here. We should also crack down on the law breakers on both sides of the equasion, employers should pay heavily for employing illegals and illegals should be immediately deported when discovered.

This problem is only complicated because it's a wedge issue that the politicians can use to divid the public.

not an American citizen = n... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

not an American citizen = no rights ... including no right to privacy ...
(even though there is actually no "right to privacy" in the Constitution ...)

What will we do with 12 mil... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

What will we do with 12 million here?

It seems that the US has the will to deport wives of American Service men who die.
We have sent in men with MP5 to deport a child.
We find the will to deport small business owners who been in the US legally for 10 years.
So can we deport people?
Yes we can.
How many can we deport?
Is he amount of people we can deport limited to number of ICE agents?
Do we increase number of agents?

How do your prioritize who get deported?
1. Criminals caught
2. Those caught using public assistance
3. Those caught using public resources
4. Caught in employment stings.

Rather than legalize 12 million illegals.
Why not clear those people who are in the process and completed all the paperwork?
Process them through the system and close it down for 18 months.
Durring that time update the systems and train new ICE agents, train local law enforcement under 287g.
Clear out all prisons of illegals
Enforce the border
Enforce work rules
People will self deport.
Deny public services to illegals. (we do not want to import poverty)
Now after we have processed people who are here legally then we need to deal with the illegals they are last inline. They have to pay penalties and they must work off their debts to society if they do not?
They are deported

Utah Welfare list? I though... (Below threshold)
Montana:

Utah Welfare list? I thought the majority in AZ, NM, TX, NV, UT, CO, OK, on Welfare, are old school Mormons who still practice polygamy with underage girls and send these girls in to get a check. You should see some of the palace homes that are paid with welfare checks.




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