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True Confessions

Years and years ago, I heard or read a phrase that stuck in my memory (far better than the source):

"It's not illegal" isn't a defense, it's a confession."

Think about it. When do you hear that phrase, or some variant?

Most often, it's when someone is challenged to justify their actions. And the response isn't explaining anything why they did it, but to challenge your right to question them. It's an admission that they have no morally or ethically defensible reason for doing what they did, but they don't want to acknowledge that.

IF you look at the case of the Cordoba Center Mosque at Ground Zero Park51 Islamic Community Center That Coincidentally Is Blocks Away From Any Actual Community, Just Around The Corner From Ground Zero, And Will Include A Mosque Dedicated To The Same Allah In Whose Name The 9/11 Hijackers Acted, listen to the defenses being put up by the backers of the mosque. Boil it all down, and that is their argument in its entirety: "it's not illegal."

"We have the right to build our center here, or any place else."

"The Constitution guarantees our right to have our houses of worship."

"Those opposing us are bigots and prejudiced against Muslims."

Notice what's missing? That's right. Any argument about how the mosque/community center is a good thing. Any argument about how the building will be a boon to the neighborhood and the city. Any argument about how it will demonstrate respect for the sensibilities of those who were so gravely injured by the 9/11 attacks.

Look at the initial plans. The building would be named "the Cordoba Center" -- after the Moslem capitol of Islamic-conquered Europe. It was being built just steps from Ground Zero, in a building that was damaged by debris from one of the airliners and was shrouded in the debris and ash from the destruction. It would have a mosque at the top of its 13 stories, dominating all other religious structures in the city. And it would open on the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

With all those factors, it was almost impossible to deny that this was intended as an in-your-face assertion of Muslim conquest and domination and supremacy. (In their defense, the "Cordoba" name was dropped and replaced with the oh-so-meaningful and oh-so-creative "Park 51," a reference to its address of 51 Park Place. We'll see if the "Cordoba" name makes a comeback later -- I bet it will.)

Yes, the construction of the mosque "Islamic Community Center That Coincidentally Is Blocks Away From Any Actual Community, Just Around The Corner From Ground Zero, And Will Include A Mosque Dedicated To The Same Allah In Whose Name The 9/11 Hijackers Acted" is perfectly legal. Yes, there will be those who will protest it or fight it in ways that are less than legal (and they should be stopped and prosecuted if they do break the law). And I have little doubt that it will eventually open, but with quite a few disruptions and snags and holdups.

And it will have great value. It will serve as a constant reminder that, to the dominant forces with Islam, "tolerance" and "respect" and "sensitivity" is exclusively a one-way street -- they are things that are demanded for Islam, but not ever to be demanded (or even expected) from Islam.

Their defense of their mosque is that it's not illegal. And they're perfectly right in that statement.

That statement is their sole defense. And that they can't find anything else to say says all that needs to be said.

That is their confession. That is their uncoerced, unforced, uncompelled, entirely voluntary confession.

Mark it, and mark it well.


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Comments (35)

I think we should refer to ... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

I think we should refer to the mosque as the Gates of Vienna Mosque in the future ...

Don't you just love how the... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

Don't you just love how the left claims opposition is "religious bigotry" or other such malarcky?

I think turnabout is fair play. Let's demand that Christians, Jews, atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, etc., be permitted to work at this "community center."

Of course, based on their o... (Below threshold)
Weegie:

Of course, based on their own reasoning, then they should have no problem with people putting up billboards claiming that Mohammed (MHRIH) is a pedophile or anybody printing derogatory cartoons about Mohammed.

Those are not illegal, either, thus the Muslims should welcome them, no?

Everybody with an ounce of integrity and intellectual honesty would have to admit that the chosen location for this Muslim center is intentionally provocative.

I suggest that someone put up a billboard facing the center with cartoons of Mohammed on it.

"It's not illegal"... (Below threshold)
"It's not illegal" isn't a defense, it's a confession."

Think about it. When do you hear that phrase, or some variant?

Wow.

When do I hear that? When I hear people like:

- Gun owners

- People using free speech to discuss controversial matters.

- People wanting to assemble in a public place.

Basically, ANY TIME someone wants to do something in America that makes some other people uncomfortable.

Freedom ISN'T JUST FOR PEOPLE YOU LIKE.

Freedom is for anyone who hasn't committed a crime, because in addition to freedom of religion it's about **innocent until proven guilty**.

If you don't like it, maybe you should leave.

"We have the right to bu... (Below threshold)
Matt:

"We have the right to build our center here, or any place else."

"The Constitution guarantees our right to have our houses of worship."

"Those opposing us are bigots and prejudiced against Muslims."

1. No, they don't, hence zoning laws, planning and zoning committes, approval process etc. In our current society, with the possible exception of the government has an inherent right to build anything anywhere, even when it is obviously our own property. I don't like it, but that is reality.

2. The Constitution affirms the rigth to freedom of religion. It doesn't say a thing about a right to build a house of worship anywehre one wants to, or to force it onto a community.

3. This proves they have no real justification to build the Mosque there.

Liberals just don;t get -- ... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

Liberals just don;t get -- or care to get - that conservatives really aren't arguing the legality of the situation, as what these folks are planning is totally legal, but object to the "in-your-face" approach to placing an Islamic center so close to the place where Muslims murdered 3,000 people.

I'd object to placing a church near such a place if it was 19 Christians who murdered 3,000 in the name of Jesus.

I'd object if the NRA set up an education center next to the place where 19 NRA members murdered 3,000 in the name of the Second Amendment.

Understand?

"Tolerance" is a two-way street, and if Muslims want more folks in America to accept them, they should realize that this is an acutely sensitive matter, and perception is what counts here.

Jim X, please, please expla... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Jim X, please, please explain that you were kidding. That you actually got the theme of the post.

Pornography is legal and protected yet they cannot build a store next to a school and actually, they wouldn't want to. Pornographers have more compassion then muslims.

The conversation is and should be one of empathy and compassion. Both strong tenents of any faith, yet it is missing in this one. Curious? ww

I'm still waiting to see wh... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

I'm still waiting to see what NEW YORK firms are going to bid on this construction project.

Be much better to put up a ... (Below threshold)
914:

Be much better to put up a whorehouse instead of this hate center.


"Freedom is for anyone who hasn't committed a crime, because in addition to freedom of religion it's about **innocent until proven guilty**."

Sorry but you do not have the right to assemble and indoctrinate young people to destroy and murder in this country no matter what you think.

What was algores response? ... (Below threshold)
Greg:

What was algores response? Something like: no controlling authority thingy?

As noted, they have the leg... (Below threshold)

As noted, they have the legal right to build it, but the real issue is that it amounts to a victory monument. That's what people are so exercised about.

"It's not illegal" isn't... (Below threshold)
john:

"It's not illegal" isn't a defense, it's a confession."
Think about it. When do you hear that phrase, or some variant?

Hmm, let's see... when did we hear that...

President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution.

Oh yeah, that's when.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/

Liberals just don;t get ... (Below threshold)
john:

Liberals just don;t get -- or care to get - that conservatives really aren't arguing the legality of the situation

Ah, that must be why they're trying to get a judge to block it.

I agree that someone doesn't get it, but I think it's you.

Wildwillie, I wish you were... (Below threshold)

Wildwillie, I wish you were kidding. But you're clearly not.

I guarantee you that at least 1 store is selling pornographic material within 5 blocks of a school, in nearly every area of New York.

Furthermore, even if that were not true - that becomes a zoning issue and not a religion issue.

If there are other churches in this area, and there are, then there is no logical OR moral reason to forbid US citizens who are muslims from having a church anywhere they want, as long as they obey the law.

If you truly believe in the Constitution and in freedom of religion, then there is no logical reason you should have a problem with that.

Sorry but you do not hav... (Below threshold)

Sorry but you do not have the right to assemble and indoctrinate young people to destroy and murder in this country no matter what you think.

And you do not have the right to prevent innocent people from building a church in this country no matter what you think.

There's that whole thing of "innocent until proven guilty", you see.

You realize of course that ... (Below threshold)
DaveF:

You realize of course that we still haven't heard a single outcry from the muslim community against 9/11. Nor have any muslims here turned in or reported anyone suspicious of terrorism related activities. Hmmmm! Do they agree, or disagree??? I'm very suspicious about the reason for building this mosque, there are plenty of places to build other than Park 51.

"...the "in-your-face" appr... (Below threshold)
Rance:

"...the "in-your-face" approach..."

In case you haven't noticed, "in-your-face" has been the way people have been interacting in this country for at least 30 years.

This is one area where Islamic Community Center group has totally adapted to our culture.

I wonder if a truckload of ... (Below threshold)
GB:

I wonder if a truckload of pigs released on the roof (as protest) and made to find their way to the first floor would be considered insensitive?

Are any of you aware that t... (Below threshold)
Rance:

Are any of you aware that there is a mosque inside the Pentagon?

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/05/muslims_infiltrate_pentagon

And you do not have the ... (Below threshold)
Matt:

And you do not have the right to prevent innocent people from building a church in this country no matter what you think.

Like it or not, and I don't, most city government control where religious buildings are built all the time. It is done through zoning laws. Every community has them. Anything that is built in a city, county, state has to be approved by some committee or another. Often the approval is based on whether or not it fits in the neighborhood, the neighbors approve etc. In my community the city even approves who churches can sell old buildings to when the church closes or changes locations.

In the name of religious to... (Below threshold)
Matt:

In the name of religious tolerance, and quid-pro-quo, how about approving this with a condition. When the Israelis are allowed to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem, we'll let the Mosque be built near Ground Zero?

By the way, I don't consider it bigoted to dislike the religion that believes I should be dead or a slave.

Again, Jim xj, I will type ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Again, Jim xj, I will type slower. Where is the compassion and empathy from this bastard of a religion? ww

Wildwillie, you should try ... (Below threshold)

Wildwillie, you should try reading slowly. You can start with this next part:

It does not matter how cold, non-compassionate, non-empathetic you think the religion is.

It does not even matter if the religion in question **REALLY IS*** completely cold, non-compassionate, non-empathetic in an objective sense.

Do you understand?

There is no part in the Constitution which says: "Unless the religion is mean and followed only by meanies." Or **any variation thereof**.

It does not matter if freaking SATANISTS want to build a church there. If we truly love the freedom that America stands for and that the Founding Fathers wanted then we will allow them to build their church there.

If the people who are creating the space are following all applicable laws, then according to the Founding Fathers no one else has any right to stop it.

Was that clear enough for you?

And Matt, your comparison o... (Below threshold)

And Matt, your comparison of US to the laws and practices of a foreign nation is just silly.

And also, Matt, no one is s... (Below threshold)

And also, Matt, no one is saying you should like Islam or even Muslims. That's an entirely different matter, from respecting the freedom of other ***American citizens*** to ***practice their religion EVEN IF YOU HATE IT.

Here is in your face for yo... (Below threshold)
olsoljer:

Here is in your face for you:

This is The United States of America. Emigrants are supposed to assimilate the American way - bearing true faith and allegiance to the United States, not infiltrating with the end result to change our laws and constitution. If I believed that muslim was a religion, I would likely agree with Jim X - but muslim is a practice that incorporates and teaches a way of life that is in direct contradiction to the American way of life. Not only that they enforce it with their OWN laws and are now trying to impose those laws on us. F--k a bunch of muslim camel jockeys. It is far past time we stopped embracing the "if rape is unevitable, lay back and enjoy it" mentality.
Our Constitution has been perverted and distorted starting with Abraham Lincoln - time to take it back. Grow a pair or get the hell out.

unsupervised, I have absolu... (Below threshold)

unsupervised, I have absolutely no problem with individuals choosing to build strip clubs and pork barbecue shops right next to the community center, and selling pork rinds shaped like boobies right in front of it.

I'm for people being able to do whatever the hell they want, as long as they don't commit serious crimes or do serious harm to others.

And olsoljer - I'm not awar... (Below threshold)

And olsoljer - I'm not aware of any exception in US citizen's rights if the people are "teaching a way of life that is in direct contradiction to the American way of life".

As far as the Constitution and I are concerned, as long as people aren't breaking the law or doing serious to others or themselves, they can do whatever the heck they want. Whether or not I or you or any other American citizen likes it or even thinks its a good idea.

So it would be ok for 100 m... (Below threshold)
olsoljer:

So it would be ok for 100 million armed Chinese troops to land in the US and march into middle America as long as they didn't break any laws on their way?

Years and years a... (Below threshold)
Tina:


Years and years ago, I heard or read a phrase that stuck in my memory (far better than the source):

"It's not illegal" isn't a defense, it's a confession."

Think about it. When do you hear that phrase, or some variant?

Jay,

The argument people are making is not that it is legal but that it's protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. The phrase that it's protected by the constitution is most frequently made by conservatives.

IF you look at the case ... (Below threshold)
Tina:

IF you look at the case of the Cordoba Center Mosque at Ground Zero Park51 Islamic Community Center That Coincidentally Is Blocks Away From Any Actual Community, Just Around The Corner From Ground Zero...

Jay,

The Park51 Islamic Community Center is located a couple of blocks from the Masjid Al-Farah mosque and is intended to handle overflow. Both mosques are 2 to 3 blocks from ground zero and both mosques are within walking distance of each other. Another reason for choosing that particular building is they bought it for a bargin price. The building has been empty for years. At one point the owners were asking $18 million for it. Eventually they dropped the asking price to $5 million.

Yes, the construction of... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

Yes, the construction of the mosque "Islamic Community Center That Coincidentally Is Blocks Away From Any Actual Community, Just Around The Corner From Ground Zero

In that same area are:
Nine churches near ground zero

9 Parks near ground zero

10 Colleges near ground zero

8 Public Schools near ground zero

But the community is too small to have a Mosque?

So it would be ok for 10... (Below threshold)

So it would be ok for 100 million armed Chinese troops to land in the US and march into middle America as long as they didn't break any laws on their way?

They would pretty clearly be breaking a bunch of laws by doing that, don't you think?

So it would be ok for 10... (Below threshold)
Tina S:

So it would be ok for 100 million armed Chinese troops to land in the US and march into middle America as long as they didn't break any laws on their way?

Building a place to worship peacefully is not the same as a foreign nation invading us.

Dave F: It must be tragic t... (Below threshold)
Elf M. Sternberg:

Dave F: It must be tragic to wear such blinders. Condemnation of the 9/11 attacks by Muslim organizations includes dozens of articles by various Muslim groups around the world.

And the founder of the Cordoba Community Center (it's not a "mosque," any more than the prayer room in the pentagon is a "mosque") has gone on the air and said that there are community benefits to the Cordoba Center. You just don't want to hear them.




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