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Me Am Un-Bigot!

I swear, the more I listen to the opponents of the Ground Zero mosque, the more I think I'm reading old Superman comics. Because their talking points are taken straight out of Bizarro World (or Htrae).

"Hmm... me enemy is militant Islam. So me must do everything OPPOSITE of militant Islam! Me must do NOTHING that even seems little like what militant Islam do!"

Any day now, I expect them to start calling for women to have four husbands or something.

Think about it. Under Shariah law, non-Muslim faiths are very tightly controlled -- when allowed at all. So, naturally, if we start tightly controlling or banning Islam in the United States, we're acting just like them.

But that's not what is happening. That's not what has ever happened. And almost nobody is calling for that.

Yes, there are some idiots who are calling for the complete banning of Islam, the deportation of all Muslims, and the tearing down of all mosques. But they are few and far between.

No, the vast majority of the anti-Ground-Zero mosque opponents are simply saying "no" to one particular mosque, in one particular place. There is no big movement to shut down the already existing hundred or so mosques in New York City.

The message being sent is simple -- perhaps too simple for the political "sophisticates" who are cheering on this mosque. "Not there. Almost anywhere else, but not there."

And what is prompting that message? Speaking for myself, it is for a multitude of reasons.

1) The building was one of many damaged in the 9/11 attacks, carried out in the name of the god in whom this mosque is being built. The presence of a site consecrated to Allah so close to where thousands of innocents were killed in the name of Allah is grossly offensive.

2) The mosque is being backed by a group that chose to call itself "the Cordoba Project" in honor of the former Grand Mosque of Cordoba. That mosque was built on the site of a former Christian church, and is one of many times Islam deliberately chose to build a mosque atop a site holy to another, subjugated faith. The Hagia Sophia. The Al Aqsa Mosque. The Tomb of the Patriarchs. Mecca itself was conquered and forcibly converted from pagans.

America, being a secular nation, doesn't have specifically "holy" places. But we hold great reverence for places where large numbers of Americans died. The USS Arizona, in Pearl Harbor. Gettysburg. The former Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

And the sites of the 9/11 attacks.

Those are our "sacred places." Those are our "hallowed grounds." We use religious and spiritual language to describe them not out of a sense of piety, but because it offers the best way of expressing the emotional and sentimental power they hold over us.

And when these concerns and feelings and beliefs are brought up to the mosque backers, we are insulted and denigrated and dismissed. When we use the language that we have been told that is the appropriate means of communication and ask for "respect" and "tolerance" and "acceptance" and "understanding" in this area, we are dismissed as bigots -- or worse.

Worse? Yes. The answers given are not even related to the questions we asked.

"Why must you build it there, of all places!"

"Because it is our Constitutional right, and you can't stop us!"

"Why did you name it after the Cordoba mosque?"

"Because it is our Constitutional right, and you can't stop us!"

"Why must you open it on September 11, 2011, the tenth anniversary of the attack?"

"Because it is our Constitutional right, and you can't stop us!"

"Why won't you show any respect for those who lost so many loved ones on that terrible day, killed in the name of Allah?"

"Because it is our Constitutional right, and you can't stop us!"

"Why won't you even consider building it somewhere else, especially when we say we will help you find another place and help you build it?"

"Because it is our Constitutional right, and you can't stop us!"

As I've said before, should the mosque be built on that site, and open on that date, I and many others will accept it. We understand and value and appreciate the Constitution.

But we shall not accept it quietly. We will protest it every step of the way. We will speak out and denounce it and make as many people as we can fully aware of the full message it conveys. We will not forget that those who are demanding "respect" and "tolerance" and "acceptance" and "understanding" have repeatedly proven that they have absolutely zero interest or inclination in demonstrating those traits themselves. And we will not let that selfish, one-sided nature of the mosque builders go unmentioned or unforgotten.

Why?

"Because it is our Constitutional right, and you can't stop us!"


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Comments (40)

Why not just make it very c... (Below threshold)

Why not just make it very clear to every single contractor and subcontractor on the project that we will be scrutinizing their entire payroll to be sure that only LEGAL immigrants are permitted to work on the project? Just pay such close attention that they can barely breathe! That'll make it impossible for the contractors to do the project for the monies they have bid to do it. They'll all lose pots and pots and pots of money and be unable to work on any future construction jobs for a very long time! That's the capitalist's punishment method folks!

Jay T- this is too much com... (Below threshold)
zaugg:

Jay T- this is too much common sense for the average Lefty to comprehend. It's going right over their head and sending them into fits of rage at the "injustice".

It's boring to agree with e... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

It's boring to agree with every word in a post. But here we are.

To follow along JT's 'We wi... (Below threshold)
Dan Irving:

To follow along JT's 'We will ..." line:

We will open a butcher shop right across the street that specializes in pork products.

We will open a gay bar right across the street from the Mosque: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/gay-bar-near-mosque-near-ground-zero/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_med

"We will not forget that th... (Below threshold)
Hank:

"We will not forget that those who are demanding "respect" and "tolerance" and "acceptance" and "understanding" have repeatedly proven that they have absolutely zero interest or inclination in demonstrating those traits themselves."

Outstanding!

Well done, Jay.

I have a simple request, Ja... (Below threshold)
James H:

I have a simple request, Jay Tea. Please give your thoughts on the anti-mosque movements afoot in Tennessee, California, and elsewhere. If the argument against mosques is only "don't build it at Ground Zero," then why is there such hue and cry about mosque expansions elsewhere? And if those arguing against the Ground Zero project acknowledge the Muslim's First Amendment right to build, then why were their initial arguments raised while lobbying a zoning board to block it?

Oh, and if my arguments on constitutional grounds are a bit much for you, that's because I'm almost a First Amendment absolutist ... and the debate begins and ends there for me. I have no truck with left-leaning or right-leaning political correctness.

You forgot "We will not win... (Below threshold)
Dane:

You forgot "We will not win as many seats in Congress as we would have otherwise thanks to our child-like efforts to rebrand the GOP as the party of intolerant Christians who hate Muslims and Mexicans"...

Not what you intended? Welcome to politics - the land of unintended consequences.

JamesH , maybe the reason t... (Below threshold)
doubled:

JamesH , maybe the reason there are protests about mosques in other parts of the country are because there are always those who feel they should be able to squash someone else's idea or vision for a piece of property. I.E. in Chicago , Wal-Mart can't get a store built within city limits due to protests. Why? Wal-Mart kill of bunch of Americans recently? Should union members enjoy more 1st amendment priviledges than New Yorkers?

I guarantee that if the cit... (Below threshold)
David Spence:

I guarantee that if the city of NY offered this "group" a free parcel of land and a 50 million dollars to build a mosque five blocks away from Ground Zero, they wouldn't build a mosque. They do not care about simply building a mosque-they care only that it be done within that minuscule parcel of land that they destroyed. Even if you ascribe no malice to the actual group involved in its planning and construction, (and that's a "howler)," it looks like a conquest of the infidels to millions of the jackals hiding behind this "religion of peace" horse^%$#.

It hasn't occurred to any m... (Below threshold)
John S:

It hasn't occurred to any mosque opponents that they only need to defile the site with a single pig carcass to prevent construction. Muslims are strangely superstitious. And I don't care one way or another about this Victory Celebration Mosque, but I am enjoying the fact that Democrats have stepped in it, they're screwed, and they know it. Add to their woe, the Recovery Summer has seen the return of one-half million layoffs per week. Along with the collapse of retails sales and industrial production, November is looking better all the time.

I don't like repeating myse... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

I don't like repeating myself but the question is not "Should they build it there" it is "Why do they want to build it there".

The lefties, and James H. seem to always want to throw a red herring into a post. We are discussing the NYC Mosque. Which I have been hearing and reading about for days now. I have not heard anything about what James H. is trying to distract us with. Stay focused.

Dane, the only hate I ever see spews from the left side. The right has a few kooks but the left is over run with hate. ww

The Muslim people are a rac... (Below threshold)
warisgreat:

The Muslim people are a race,they have no country they have no flag,they have only Islam,they are not Americans,they are not French, they are not Russian,they are not African,they are Muslim so they only belong to Islam,they will never be American and they will never fight for the United States,that why when they go into any service Army,Navy,Air Force they go to kill American's and serve Islam their country,their religion,their God any they will never be American's and can never be trusted because they will always be a Muslim and nothing else.The American People must come out of the state of always being politically correct because the Muslims will beat you to death using all of your rule's and laws against you.Wake up Americans,that is why you can never trust president Obama , he will always be a Muslim.

The people posting at yahoo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100818/pl_yblog_upshot/imam-at-center-of-ground-zero-controversy-helped-bush-administration#mwpphu-container

"Unlimited tolerance must l... (Below threshold)
pgg:

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them... We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal." - Karl Popper

Here's insensitivity: PLAN... (Below threshold)
David Spence:

Here's insensitivity: PLANNING BOARD GIVES THUMBS UP TO HAM SANDWICH FACTORY ON TOP OF MAM CASS'S GRAVE

megaindependent.blogspot.com/2010/08/planning-board-gives-thumbs-up-to-ham.

"...in the same way as w... (Below threshold)
Mike Giles:

"...in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal." - Karl Popper


The problem with Islam, is that at its core it is a totalitarian political system masquerading as a religion. Millions of people only see and adhere to the religious element, but the totalitarian political element is always there in the background, ever ready to come forward. Indeed that political element - what we call fundamentalism - has always been Islam's fall back position.

I don't really see much of ... (Below threshold)
Brad:

I don't really see much of a First Amendment issue here at all. It's common sense and decency. I have the right to free speech, but should I go shout "nigger" to everyone in Harlem? And when I get my ass kicked for doing it, is anyone going to argue I didn't have it coming? Things don't get built in certain areas all the time. Do we build porn shops next to schools or parks? Do liquor stores show up next to churches, etc.? No one's trying to stop the damn Muslims' freedom to practice religion. This isn't frickin' rocket science folks.

The same bigotry and hatred... (Below threshold)
Dane:

The same bigotry and hatred that fuels the Park51 protests is fueling the protest of proposed mosques all over the country.

How much further away from the 9/11 site can you get than Temecula, California?

articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/18/local/la-me-mosque-20100718

The pastor of Calvary Baptist Church, just across a cul-de-sac from the site of the mosque, said the two religions "mix like oil and water" and predicted a "confrontational atmosphere" if the project moves forward.

"The Islamic foothold is not strong here, and we really don't want to see their influence spread," said Pastor Bill Rench.

It's not about sacred ground. It's Christian religious intolerance rearing its ugly head t=o deny Americans the right to choose and worship freely in other religions.

Meanwhile the right wingers say "I have not heard anything about what James H. is trying to distract us with. Stay focused."

Hide your eyes! Don't look! Pretend you know nothing about the spreading Christian hatred being expressed towards Muslims Americans that is behind the 9/11 protest and protests all over the country!

And when that fails because some leftie shows up with the facts, just lie.

"How much further away from... (Below threshold)
Nine-Fourteen:

"How much further away from the 9/11 site can you get than Temecula, California?"


How about Nome Alaska.

Its nice to see something going right under this president regardless of himself.

Now if he could just stop losing jobs at a historical pace things might brighten up.

Its my constitutional right to be happy while I see this Arabian funded hamosque fail and Barry can't save it.

"The message being sent is ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"The message being sent is simple -- perhaps too simple for the political "sophisticates" who are cheering on this mosque."

Obviously. Every time Dane opens his mouth, it's an echo chamber for DNC talking points.

Yeah Dane, tell us about all those anti-Muslim riots and how the streets are running in Muslim blood.

Dane- agent provocateur-</p... (Below threshold)
Nine-Fourteen:

Dane- agent provocateur-

"Hide your eyes! Don't look! Pretend you know nothing about the spreading Christian hatred being expressed towards Muslims Americans that is behind the 9/11 protest and protests all over the country!"


Yes, if all the christian hatred gets any wilder we will see burning overturned cars and riots everywhere as if someone printed a cartoon or something.

Dane, you are picking gnat ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Dane, you are picking gnat shit out of pepper. Go peddle your misery elsewhere. Thanks. ww

Trucknuts... (Below threshold)
Meiji_man:

Trucknuts

OT, but how incompetent is ... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

OT, but how incompetent is Obummer? First, Obummer was for the GZM, then maybe he wasn't, then he definitely was. Nancy Pelosi wants to investigate those who oppose the mosque, which would include Harry Reid and Screaming Howie Dean. I think this is great, 'cause the big issue is JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. And the more Obummer blunders on about the GZM, the more he's "off topic".
But now, even when he's on topic, he looks like a complete idiot. In Columbus, Ohio last night, Obummer said that the economy is on the right track and things were moving in the right direction. Ohio has double digit unemployment, and the figures are not getting better. No one believes him.
But here's the kicker. Obummer tried to prove his point by meeting with a local architect [small businessman] and saying that he was kept in business by the stimulus. Turns out, Obummer was totally wrong:

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- President Barack Obama was incorrect Wednesday when, speaking in Columbus, Ohio, he credited the White House-based economic stimulus bill with helping to save a local architecture firm's jobs, The Plain Dealer has confirmed.
The $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has nothing to do with the renovation of a Columbus police station. Obama, however, said that the stimulus helped pay for the renovation, providing work to architects at a small firm that otherwise would have had layoffs.
The money came from a federal grant that was unrelated to the stimulus, according to sources in Ohio and Washington, D.C.
Construction and renovation of police facilities is not a permissible use of stimulus funds unless the project falls under certain circumstances, such as construction of a jail on an Indian reservation, according to guidelines for stimulus grant applications.
Obama, speaking in the back yard of Rhonda and Joe Weithman, cited successes of the stimulus package, saying the administration has been "trying to help our state and local governments so that they're not having to lay off as many teachers and firefighters and police offices."

What a maroon.

Barry hasn't created a job ... (Below threshold)
Nine-Fourteen:

Barry hasn't created a job since day 1 unless you count all the oversea's jobz that should be here.

He can have his koran and stay out to pasture in the vineyard. The less we see of his bozo eared clown act the better things are.

A few things:1) I... (Below threshold)
James H:

A few things:

1) If WildWillie has not heard of something, it must not exist. QED. I would show my work on this, but Steven Taylor of OTB rounds up the ongoing controversies rather nicely.

2) Those other movements cause me to find the pro forma First Amendment disclaimers from the Park51 malcontents noncredible. In every instance, we see people lobby local governments to bar the construction of mosques. If that does not run counter to the First Amendment, I don't know what does.

3) Dane: I hope you aren't calling all Christians bigots. That's the very reflection of the prejudice you condemn.

FYI. Not saying I agree on... (Below threshold)
Timmer:

FYI. Not saying I agree one way or the other, just giving an alternative perspective:
A friend of mine who's not Muslim but has spent a LOT of time in Muslim countries over the past 20 years thanks to the Air Force, tells me that as far as his Muslim friends are concerned, the name Cordoba is to remind us all of a time when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived peacefully together in the same city. It's not about the invading and the conquering, it's about peaceful coexistence. Crazy talk I know, but...

Conservatives,I am... (Below threshold)
Highlander:

Conservatives,

I am trying to get a better understanding of you and your primitive beliefs. So please do me this favor. Write a message beginning with "I hate the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion because______________ _________ _____" and then fill in the blanks.

Thanks in advance,

Highlander

Thats strange? When I see o... (Below threshold)
Nine-Fourteen:

Thats strange? When I see or hear of Cordoba, it reminds me of Ricardo Montalban?

FThis is for our friend fro... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

FThis is for our friend from the other side of the aisle:

Please do us all a favor and give up on your campaign to label objection to the location of this mosque as being Islamophobic in nature.

Just stop for a moment and consider the reaction to the original proposal for what was to be the 9/11 museum at Ground Zero.

Just stop for a moment and consider the reaction to the original proposal for memorializing the crash site of flight 93 in Shanksville.

Just stop for a moment and consider the reaction to the original proposal for the Arizona 9/11 memorial.

And it's not just about 9/11:

Just stop for a moment and consider the reaction to the original proposal for the display of the Enola Gay at that the Air and Space Museum.

Americans have been saying for quite some time now that we find certain things, and certain events to be hallowed, sacred and precious. And we have pushed back hard against their debasement.

"Dane: I hope you aren't... (Below threshold)
Dane:

"Dane: I hope you aren't calling all Christians bigots. That's the very reflection of the prejudice you condemn."

Of course not. Just the bigoted ones, like the Baptist minister quoted in my comment.

"The Islamic foothold is not strong here, and we really don't want to see their influence spread," said Pastor Bill Rench. [Calvary Batptist Church, Temecula, California]

Not all who are protesting are Christians, and not all Christians are protesting, but prominent Christians are. As are those who proclaim themselves to be righteous Christians (like Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich).

But when you see prominent Christian spokespersons such as a Baptist Pastor referring to Muslim Americans with "we really don't want to see their influence spread" - it's clear that it is religious intolerance driving the agenda of many on the right. I'm sure Pastor Rench speaks for his congregation and for other congregations when he says "we really don't want...".

Rather like a hooded KKK leader standing up and pointing at black Americans proclaiming
"we don't want their kind around here."

Dane in the ass-Wh... (Below threshold)
Nine-Fourteen:

Dane in the ass-

Where and when did Sara Palin proclaim to be a righteous christian??

Facts please hater. Your are making shit up. Its called slander.

No, it's called facts.... (Below threshold)
Dane:

No, it's called facts.

Is America a Christian nation?

Sarah Palin said on Friday that it's "mind-boggling" to suggest otherwise.

Read more: dailycaller.com/2010/04/20/sarah-palin-sparks-debate-with-christian-nation-remarks/#ixzz0x6Xi3xhN

Palin says it's "mind-boggling" to suggest that we're a nation where Americans are free to choose their religion -- no, no - this is a Christian nation.

Nice try, asswipe.

"...as his Muslim friends a... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

"...as his Muslim friends are concerned, the name Cordoba is to remind us all of a time when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived peacefully together in the same city. It's not about the invading and the conquering, it's about peaceful coexistence. " Timmer

I guess you and your "friend" aren't much on history then. Peaceful coexistence? Only as long as the conquered did what the conquerors said (like don't carry a bible in public, don't pray so loud in your church so that we can hear you outside). Otherwise, you'd be told to leave and if you didn't, they cut your head off.

"Palin says it's "mind-bogg... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

"Palin says it's "mind-boggling" to suggest that we're a nation where Americans are free to choose their religion -- no, no - this is a Christian nation.

Nice try, asswipe." Dane

Go back and read your own link. And the link from that link. That's not what she said. Not even close.

Not even a nice try... well, you know what you are. Deep down, you know.

Worth repeating... (Below threshold)
Dane:

Worth repeating

"Hide your eyes! Don't look! Pretend you know nothing about the spreading Christian hatred being expressed towards Muslims Americans that is behind the 9/11 protest and protests all over the country!

And when that fails because some leftie shows up with the facts, just lie. "

Only an idiot would aay the... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Only an idiot would aay there is "a 1st Amendment right to build" a mosque. Read the Amendment, fool!

Churches are denied permits to build every day for various reasons. This does not deny the right to practice their religion in any way. We are speaking of construction projects, not "free exercise" here.

NO ONE has said the muslims cannot practice their religion, or (to my knowledge) advocated federal or state action to prevent them from the lawful construction of a religious center or mosque. So quit lying about that, jerks!

The 1st Amendment also guarantees the freedom of speech for me and others to question the wisdom and propriety of building a pagan death cult center near Ground Zero, so fold it five ways and shove it where the sun don't shine, mmmkay?

Of course, the hilarious truth is that these losers don't have any money. Where they found the $5 mil to buy the half-interest they own is a good question, but they have a little over $18,000 in their donation account now, and Con-Ed isn't selling their half interest for used burkhas. Not to mention the full estimated cost of about $100 million . . .

NO ONE has said th... (Below threshold)
James H:
NO ONE has said the muslims cannot practice their religion, or (to my knowledge) advocated federal or state action to prevent them from the lawful construction of a religious center or mosque. So quit lying about that, jerks!

Wrong, Addison. Wikipedia notes that individuals opposed to the mosque lobbied a community board to vote against it in a non-binding advisory vote. Also, anti-mosque partisans attempted to get the building landmark status. The vote on landmark status itself was sought not because the building itself was historical, but specifically to prevent the construction of a religious building. From the New York Times City Room blog:

After the commission voted, several members of the audience shouted "Shame on you!" and "Disgrace!" One woman carried a sign reading, "Don't Glorify Murders of 3,000; No 9/11 Victory Mosque."

You are, in fact, wrong in your statement.

Additionally, the First Amendment does not exempt religious buildings from local zoning laws. However, if a person attempting to build a religious building can show the law was applied to him in a discriminatory manner, then any decisions denying a building permit would be overturned.

Addison, see post 37. You s... (Below threshold)
Highlander:

Addison, see post 37. You see how easily your arguments are COMPLETELY DESTROYED?

Conservatives,

Before presenting an argument try to do at least two things:

1. Think first

and

2. Have available to you the relevant facts.

Lefties talking about 'fact... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Lefties talking about 'facts' is like a blind man talking about the color red...

I think building mosques is... (Below threshold)
olsoljer:

I think building mosques is a great idea (not at/near ground zero). It provides a non-portable target for local citizenry when the islamic terrorists next strike the US. As islam is an idealogy not a religion, as they adhere to sharia law, and think we should as well, thereby advocating a legal system which DOES violate the US Constitution, that their allegiance is to allah, the koran and the ayatollah BEFORE allegiance to any country, mosques are a good idea.
Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion - an idealogy which promotes/condones the killing of non believers, subjugating women, honor killings, stoning etc - even DEMANDS - it does't really strike me as qualifying as a "religion" so why would we accept/defend/promote it in the USA?
My suggestion to those who practice the islamic faith in the United States, and reject sharia law, is to publically proclaim that NOW, not after the next terrorist incident.
I have had enough of this "political correctness" bullshit, and all these assholes who quote the Constitutional Freedoms to destroy those freedoms. The Constitution was written to ensure the perservance of those freedoms, and to ensure that the United States would endure as a free nation, safe and secure in itself.
United we stand, divided we fall - and we sure are divided, and by WHAT? Absolute idiots who advocate acceptance of an ideaology which has the end result in destroying our nation, acceptance of a political agenda which demands that the hard working share the fruits of their labor with the lazy non productive who ask, no!, demand it? An agenda which advocates the promotion of countries which would destroy us, and refuses to protect our own borders while enforcing the borders of FOREIGN countries? That feeds the poor of foreign countries while ignoring its own? An agenda that discriminates against progression of its qualified individuals, basing their decisions on religion/ethnicity/race and dares to call it equal opportunity?
Let's face facts - regardless of political party, we aren't the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA any longer. We are the Divided Intertwined Individuals of Indecision and Incompetence.
You know what we need? A Declaration of Independance and a Constitution with a few added Amendments (10 Amendments for Freedom would be good and maybe a revision of a couple of the old ones).

I HAVE A GREAT IDEA - The United States of America has a great one, maybe we could use it as a guideline since the government took over control through graft, corruption, divisivness, destruction of private enterprise, exporting employment, fiscal irresponsibility, redistribution of wealth, and taxation. (Just to name a few)





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