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My Message To Moderate Muslims

This might be a good time for you to shut up.

For years, the "moderate Muslims" have softly denounced the radicals among their faith, while insisting that they not be blamed for their deeds. And that has been a good survival strategy -- let's face it, the radical Muslims are quite ready to ensure complicity with violence. Radical Muslims have killed far more of their fellow Muslims than they have of we infidels. "Go along to get along" is a good way to keep from getting shot, beheaded, blown up, poisoned, hanged, stoned, dropped in a shredder, or killed in other, more exotic fashions that psychos are always cooking up. "Don't piss off the crazy people" is almost always good advice.

In this case, though, it's being applied in a tremendously short-sighted way. Because, as Laurence Simon noted, when it comes to absolute batshit psycho craziness, the radical Muslims are purely amateurs compared to us when we're pissed.

Fortunately, it takes a hell of a lot for us to get that crazy. Pearl Harbor did it. 9/11 didn't. And some say that we've outgrown that potential.

Maybe we have, but don't bet on it.

Which is what you are doing. You're saying that you're more confident that you'll be safer in not pissing off the radical Muslims than you will be with us.

In the short term, siding against America is usually the safest bet. But in the long term, it will come back and bite you on the ass.

North Korea fought us to a stalemate. Look at how they are today.

North Vietnam arguably beat us. Look what that victory won them.

The Soviet Union threatened us for decades. Look at how that ended.

Japan and Germany set out to take over their world. By the time we were done working them over, they became two of the most peaceful, least aggressive nations on earth. And consequently, their economies flourished.

Moderate Muslims, you have a choice to make. Do you want to stake your future with us, who have a proven record of winning, and won't kill you? Do you want to stand with the radicals, who end up slaughtering any they even suspect of not agreeing with them 100% all the time, and end up being destroyed?

Or do you want to continue to stand around and wring your hands, hoping to find a happy medium between the two sides, and praying that neither side will ever win a decisive enough victory that you will be called upon to account for your absence in the struggle?

Join us. Stand with us. Identify and denounce and root out the cancer on your faith. Help bring about the "Reformation" that Judaism and Christianity each experienced that allowed them to outgrow their aggressive phase and learn how to get along with the rest of the world.

Go ahead, take your time. There's no real rush. There's no sign that the US is about to snap, like it did in December 1941.

But there will be very little warning before it does happen.


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Comments (37)

Sorry Jay, but Islam does n... (Below threshold)
oldpuppymax:

Sorry Jay, but Islam does not provide for moderation. The requirements of this "religion" are quite clear and not subject to misinterpretation. Subservient non Muslims will be "tolerated." Those who stand in the WAY of Muslims are to be killed, their property stolen and family members permitted to live will become slaves. A very simple list of rules, but HARDLY an expression of moderation.

Well, even though I love wh... (Below threshold)
Kat:

Well, even though I love what you said, J, I confess that I must agree with oldpuppy; I find it extremely doubtful that moderate Muslims will stand up and be counted on the side of freedom.

Islam means "submission," and there is no real negotiating room. So I suspect that moderate Muslims will either have to (effectively) become apostates - and we all know how Islam views that - or continue their "go along to get along" stance.

I earnestly pray that America will wake up to the threat... but it seems to me that we're getting awfully close to european-style dhimmitude, and that, frankly, terrifies me. I have a 14 year old daughter who is, of course, the apple of her father's and my eye, and I do not want her or her future children to grow up under any semblance of sharia.

I have no confidence in soi-disant "moderate Muslims;" if they haven't stood up in strength in the past 10 or 20 years, they will never do so.

So your call for them to be courageous and make a stand for freedom is stirring and laudable - but only for those of us who actually value freedom and true tolerance.

Moderate Muslims ain't them.

*sad sigh*

Muslim "moderation" is taqi... (Below threshold)

Muslim "moderation" is taqiyya!

The radicals kill the moder... (Below threshold)
914:

The radicals kill the moderates or passive people just like cancer cells destroy living tissue.

Its a Cain and Able type thing.

Some say nobody can win a n... (Below threshold)
Roy:

Some say nobody can win a nuclear war. But, America did. Remember that.

GREAT, JUST GREAT JAY. Let'... (Below threshold)
kathie:

GREAT, JUST GREAT JAY. Let's hope that lots of someones in the Muslim community heard you and will take your advice.

In this case the U.S. Milit... (Below threshold)
914:

In this case the U.S. Military are white blood cells or helper T-cells. Chemotherapy and strength of character are thier weapons. Either they eradicate the islamo facist cancer or even a little bit can spread eventually killing the whole race and itself since there is no healthy environment to live in once the host our productive society is gone.

God speed to the Military.

I, too don't believe there ... (Below threshold)
mag:

I, too don't believe there are moderates in the muslim faith. With them it is all or nothing. I've know muslims who just don't practice their faith at all and I know some muslims who appear to be decent people and that have lived in this country for years..their children are Americans..and yet every time a muslim terrorist does something they pray for his/her safety, including OBL.
So, no....good article but the "moderates" are not buying it. After all these years from 2001 and prior to that, if the moderates did not show their face by now they never will.

We will continue to get bit... (Below threshold)
ck:

We will continue to get bitch slapped until we admit that we are at war with islam. Every muslim knows it's a war to the death.

Or not!... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

Or not!

Pretty much everything that... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Pretty much everything that you said in your article today was right on the money, Jay, and it was well written, too.

But what you perhaps overlooked is that, by their appeasement and wussiness, instead of applying tough love and becoming stern with them as one would do with an unruly child, Obama and his administration are sending confusing, mixed signals to "moderate" Muslims, and they're failing to provide leadership to guide "moderate" American Muslims though these tough times.

I suspect that that is true with the Muslims in Iraq, too, which could explain why they haven't established a stable government yet. Let's face it: None of the members of the Obama administration have any leadership skills. So how can you expect them to send "moderate" Muslims around the world the right message?

In view of the circumstances, Obama and his administration couldn't have come into office at a worse time. They're perceived as weak, unreliable, two-faced and ineffective by people all around the world, not just Muslims. In fact, I've got to believe that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the clerics running the government in Iran are having a good chuckle every time that they make fools out of this country, especially since they've been getting away with it for the past 30 years. In view of that factor, alone, would you have any respect for this country if you were a Muslim, "moderate" or otherwise?

Dayum, son, that was a good article. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

P.S.

Another issue that you might consider is the reason why Muslims come to this country. It isn't for the same reasons why other people immigrate to this country.

First there must be moderat... (Below threshold)
Clay:

First there must be moderate muslims to receive your message. Alas, there are none. You may find apostate muslims or even cultural muslims. But a moderate muslim? There is no such animal. All Koran-believing muslims have the same objective: The expansion of the Prophet's domain, by sword if necessary. Deep down, they're all either dancing in Gaza's streets when the infidels suffer, or wishing they were.

The moderate Muslims might ... (Below threshold)

The moderate Muslims might have an easier time proving their radicals wrong, if people didn't freak the hell out about building a mosque in NY where there's already two mosques, both overcrowded.

In other words, if Muslims should be the change they want in the world, maybe some conservatives should be too. Just a thought.

Burning down Mosque construction sites hundreds of miles away in Tennessee doesn't help either.

You are right, Clay ...., w... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

You are right, Clay ...., well, sort of.

Actually, it's about 50/50. Islamic organization in the Middle East and in South Asia send "worthy" Muslims to this country and to Western Europe all-expenses-paid to spread Islam.

But there are many not so worthy Muslims who come here and who go to Europe to escape oppression. The latter are the moderates.

They are sooo religious that what is troubling, though, is that, in view of their susceptibility to being manipulated by Imams, one has to wonder how many of them are "sleepers", just pretending to go along to get along.

They are a tribal people. They put their faith and their tribal loyalty ahead of patriotism to any nation.

jim x, I'm sure the global ... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

jim x, I'm sure the global warming would slow too, if only we could get past our objection to that victory mosque alongside Ground Zero.

Non sequitur. No desert for you.

#13Muslims are the... (Below threshold)
914:

#13

Muslims are the change they want in the world jim x. That is a problem when people like me will never submit to thier mental illness.


As far as the construction site, there are thousands of acts of vandalism and arson everyday in this country. Some are for insurance reasons and others out of revenge.

One does not warrant more attention then another unless individuals are being killed or injured because of it. However, you dwell on this one because it fits your world view of a downtrodden muslim community just like Holder all the while ignoring election fraud and voter intimidation.

Jay, does it make you feel ... (Below threshold)
galoob:

Jay, does it make you feel tough to purport to speak in behalf of the American people and issue veiled threats to religious groups?

It reads like a Goebbels speech circa 1935.

"Join us. Stand with us. Id... (Below threshold)
gary gulrud:

"Join us. Stand with us. Identify and denounce and root out the cancer on your faith."

Ah, grasshopper, your humanism is renewed every morning, ready to meet a brave new world.

I've noticed too that most ... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

I've noticed too that most every prominent Muslim is quick to condemn terrorism in general, but they balk at naming Hamas, Hizballah, Muslim Brotherhood, etc as committing those acts. "Oh yes, terrorism is awful! What's that you say? Is Hamas a terrorist group? Well you know ....."

There is no such thing as ... (Below threshold)
codekeyguy:

There is no such thing as a "moderate" muslim. They are either radicals (followers of the koran to the letter) or closet radicals (silent followers of the koran to the letter).
Consider this: I'm and Irish-American, but I consider myself AMERICAN FIRST, Irish second. Same with Italian-Americans, etc. Muslims consider themselves MUSLIMS ALWAYS, who happen to live here.
I know several muslims, as I teach in a local college. But since I cannot tell who is radical, and who (supposedly) isn't, i cannot trust ANY OF THEM. Racist? maybe. Practical? definitely!

Nice Godwinizing, galoob. A... (Below threshold)

Nice Godwinizing, galoob. And you didn't notice that I said "My" letter. I didn't claim to speak for anyone else, let alone everyone else.

But notice how many others were quick to agree with me.

J.

Jay Tea:FYI: Today... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Jay Tea:

FYI: Today's WSJ Opinion has "A Symposium: What is a Moderate Muslim?" from Muslim authors. (I've only read two so far.) Just something I thought might be of interest.

Well, Jay, obviously you ar... (Below threshold)
galoob:

Well, Jay, obviously you are impotent to carry out any threats on your own, unless you finally flip out and go postal at the local mosque, so you say "us" and "we."

What you wrote is basically a fascist rant, summonsing the collective power of "Americans" against "Muslims." Telling a group (including Americans) to "shut up," otherwise there will be violence against them? Indeed.

What you wrote is just a masturbatory fantasy of concentration camps and genocide.

As for Godwin, he himself has said that it's appropriate to use Nazi comparisons where warranted: http://is.gd/dbPmf

So, galoob, what in particu... (Below threshold)

So, galoob, what in particular do you find objective about my piece? I have to tell you, being called a "NAZI!!!!!111!!" by idiots is as big a turn-on for me as being called "RAAAAACIST!!!!11!!!" is.

You're getting me all hot and bothered, galoob...

J.

As I see it, galoob, your o... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

As I see it, galoob, your only redeeming quality would be if you have ditzy, blonde sister who puts out.

jim x, I'm sure th... (Below threshold)
jim x, I'm sure the global warming would slow too, if only we could get past our objection to that victory mosque alongside Ground Zero.

Non sequitur. No desert for you.

Here's the thing that blows my mind: you guys really seem to think this is a non sequitir.

It's like this:

1. There are many Muslims who are moderate enough to say that the US is to be trusted, and they aren't merely out to wipe out Islam.

2. Many of these Muslims are, believe it or not, your fellow Americans. They are just as American as Catholics, Lutherans, and Jews.

3. These moderate American Muslims are then made to look wrong, when other Americans freak the hell out over a new building.

4. These moderate American Muslims are further made to look wrong when it's in an area which
a) already has two mosques, both of which are overcrowded, or
b) is hundreds of miles away from any sort of "ground Zero", yet still experiences arson.

Which part of that does not follow, for you?

I honestly don't understand your train of thought.

Uh...this is a weird one, J... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Uh...this is a weird one, Jay Tea.

You do realize that moderate Muslims aren't just one big block of people who act and think alike. Right? Ok. Just checking. Just keep that in mind when you go around making your massive Darth Vader-esque proclamations to millions of people around the world via Wizbang.

In related news:<a... (Below threshold)
ryan a:
Indirectly, and inadvertent... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Indirectly, and inadvertently presumably, jimx has raised some valid points (for a refreshing change.)

What are the boundaries here as to how blunt we're allowed to be in expressing our opinions here, recognizing that our opinions aren't necessarily the facts, although they could be?

I ask that, because I don't want to offend anybody so much that they'll go ballistic on me and go whining to the FCC and loony liberal groups to complain about opinions that I state here.

Jim x wrote:"In ot... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Jim x wrote:

"In other words, if Muslims should be the change they want in the world, maybe some conservatives should be too. Just a thought."

If you see the kettle lecturing the pot, Jim, you're only going to make the kettle all angry if you start pointing out the obvious ironies of the situation.

And what of the MUSLIMS who... (Below threshold)

And what of the MUSLIMS who object to the Ground Zero mosque, Jim? The ones who claim that is indeed an insult and intended provocation. Or the ones who say that the radicals in their faith will see the mosque as a sign of victory. Are those moderates wrong?

3. These moderate Americ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

3. These moderate American Muslims are then made to look wrong, when other Americans freak the hell out over a new building.

1. Within a couple of blocks of Ground Zero
2. In the middle of a business district, instead of residential where the other mosques are.
3. To be opened on September 11
4. At the same time, a Greek Orthodox church that was destroyed by the 9/11 is NOT allowed to rebuild
5. And the fact that after 9 years, there is still a gaping hole in the ground instead of a new building.
7. The spokesman for this group planning the building has expressed views that are, let's say, NOT very moderate.

Perhaps we could build a new bomb factory in Nagasaki whilst we are at it. Just business after all.

It's not just a building...it's a symbol and a message, and a HELL of a lot of Americans know what this message is. And they are tired of being "tolerant" after being spat in the face one too many times.

Remember, remember, the month of November...

You do realize that mode... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

You do realize that moderate Muslims aren't just one big block of people who act and think alike.

Neither are Christians or Jews, but they sure can gather together in a hurry when they need to denounce an atrocious act done in the name of their religion.

Perhaps the ModMusses need a better PR agent.

What are the boundaries ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

What are the boundaries here as to how blunt we're allowed to be in expressing our opinions here, recognizing that our opinions aren't necessarily the facts, although they could be?

What's to discuss here? All Jay is saying is to these "moderates" are : "stop being milquetoasts and obsequious. Either stand up for human justice, or stop lecturing us about how "moderate" Islam is, because we have yet to see it."

We know about "moderates"...RINO, anyone?

Or, if I were to boil down ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Or, if I were to boil down Jay's message:

"Shit or get off the pot"

James Cloninger | September... (Below threshold)
jc:

James Cloninger | September 1, 2010 11:22 PM

"It's not just a building...it's a symbol and a message, and a HELL of a lot of Americans know what this message is."

========

Agreed.

On Sept 11, some assholes tried to kill over 100,000 people for some big symbolic gesture that somehow made sense to them. Sadly, they did succeed in killing about 3,000 people -- just for the symbolism of it all.

Does anyone really believe that the perps actually knew any of the victims and actually held a grudge against any particular person? Or, is everyone willing to acknowledge that the humanity affected by those acts never did matter, and it is just the symbolism that matters to those who did the deed, those that cheered them on, and those that are still somehow impressed by their symbolic gesture?

Yes, Americans have rights, and freedom of religion is at the top of the list. But, just because one has a right does not mean one must use it. They all also have a right to stick a fire hose up their ass and turn it on, but I don't anyone rushing to do that.

As ridiculous as it may be, symbolism is at the very crux of this situation. It is so sad to me that there are so many who are working so hard to pretend otherwise.

James,"Neither are... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

James,

"Neither are Christians or Jews, but they sure can gather together in a hurry when they need to denounce an atrocious act done in the name of their religion."

Ah, yes. Like when we all expected Catholics all around the world to rise up and denounce, en masse, the actions of the IRA. Otherwise, of course, all Catholics were suspected of being terrorist sympathizers.

Oh wait, that didn't happen because nobody was insane enough to blame millions of Christians around the world for the violence of SOME Christians.

Another problem with you analogy is that you assume since someone is nominally Muslim, they must have very social and political connections with another person who is nominally Muslim--and that's a pretty big oversimplification. A Muslim in Indonesia does not necessary have much in common with a Muslim in Colorado. Maybe they do, but there is no reason to assume so. And you're expecting some kind of massive, cohesive denunciation of the acts of particular idiots?

At least Jay Tea is writing about moderates...that's a first step toward realizing that this is about the actions and influence of specific groups of people. In my view it doesn't help to continually mistake the specifics (Al Qaeda etc) with the general (all Muslims). It only serves to make things more confusing, and it paves the way for a lot of misplaced anger and reactionary nonsense.

My point: maybe it would help if more people here realized that not all Muslims (like any massive group around the world) are the same. That's a great start, since what it means to be Muslim around the world (Morocco, Indonesia, Japan, USA, etc) has very different social and political realities and histories.

But then, who needs to look at the details when we can all just rely on gross stereotypes to frame the world around us? (and that's why the Onion article is hilarious and really depressing all at once)




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