"If you keep doing things like that, I won't love you anymore."

There are many things in life you need a 'license' to do. Demonstrating knowledge and proficiency. Unfortunately, the most important thing does not require one.

On another note, it's amazing what you can accomplish by invoking GUILT.

Right Dane?

I admit it. I voted for Barry out of guilt.

I loved this article although I do think it is an oversimplification to conclude that all/most liberals are Godless.

Through liberalism, I was offered the potential for redemption. Finally, there was a way, however fleeting, to feel like a good person.

Amen to this passage here. Having grown up an SF Bay Area liberal, this was ingrained into my psyche early in my education and throughout my 30+ years of residence and friendships.

I loved this article although I do think it is an oversimplification to conclude that all/most liberals are Godless.

I agree with this notion, in part, as sweeping generalizations are (mostly!) intellectually lazy. However, the culture of liberalism has certainly "banishe(d) God as the ultimate arbiter" ("dismisses" might be a better word here), but not entirely.

Living in Seattle, and attending Mass where I know a majority of my fellow parishioners are liberals, some do tend to believe they are towing God's line by choosing to side with Democratic ideals--however contrary those liberal ideals are to, in this example, Catholicism. (Abortion being a prime example, naturally.) Practicing liberal religious types also tend to forget that when we feed the poor, care for the sick, etc. that we are to do so without praise or recognition. With liberalism, that virtue is nearly ignored and the participants can feel free to shout in a self-serving and sanctimonious voice shouting, "Look at me and all the good that I do because I joined the party that cares!" (Supposedly, anyway.) This misses the point--even if it is doing good works--of remaining humble before God, IMO. Just in my simple observations, I don't see religious conservatives acting this way in their charitable acts.

Anyway, a bookmark-worthy article, for sure.

Robin is partly right. Religions peddle guilt by the barrel and then offer mystical expiation. The message that we are all guilty and must find expiation gets through even to non-believers. Without a way to achieve forgiveness through faith, one may be inclined to look for worldly ways to "wash away your sins."

This is a flawed, pop-psych explanation of liberalism, since a significant number of liberals profess a belief in God, pray and attend a church, synagogue, mosque, etc. Also consider the liberal positions of many local and national religious groups, e.g., the National Council of Churches.

The psychologically and morally sound way to approach the question of "sin" and "guilt" is to reject the notion that we are all guilty just by being born. This concept of original sin as patent nonsense. Not that we are all innocent. We all err. When we make real, personal, blame-worthy mistakes, we should accept responsibility for our actions, try to undo or correct them and avoid similar mistakes in the future (Go and sin no more). This makes more sense than either magical atonement granted by an unseen Supreme Being or by trying to solve all the problems of the world through theft of others' production, force and control.

Wow.

"The psychologically and morally sound way to approach the question of "sin" and "guilt" is to reject the notion that we are all guilty just by being born."

That's one I could never understand either. It smacks of being guilty of the sins of the father.

I remember at about age 7, sitting in church and hearing the preacher tell me that if I didn't accept Jesus before I died as the only one who could wash away my sins I would spend an eternity in hell, and wondering to myself, if I died today, what I ever could have done in my short life to deserve to burn in hell forever.

I've set foot in church exactly one time since that day almost 50 years ago and that was for a wedding.

Sorry for being off topic.

Oyster,

That preacher did you a horrible disservice.

What you described that preacher as saying is a woefully incomplete explanation. What about babies who die not understanding any language yet? Do they go to heaven? They haven't 'accepted Jesus' when they died. What about tribal bushmen from (pick your remote location)? They could live their whole life without even hearing the name Jesus, let alone have the opportunity to accept him as savior. Where do they go?

There are no "Thus sayeth the Lord" type answers for those questions in the Bible, but there are some pretty good clues.

Sorry you had such a negative church experience. I really can't stand the 'hellfire and brimstone' type preaching either. I do (now as an adult) go to a large Southern Baptist church, but they certainly don't preach in that style.

I am not a Catholic, I was raised American Baptist. We don't believe in original sin either but we do believe you have to accept Christ as the sacrifice for our sins. Actually getting baptized is a public profession of that choice to believe, and though I went through the ceremony at age 14, I did it more for everyone else. I never believed the water and the pastor had anything to do with my redemption in His eyes.

I know many others who feel the same as me, our relationship with God is not dependent on church, ceremony, or priest. It is personal.

all that being said, my spiritual health has nothing to do with the physical world. I do everything I can to be a good person in societies eyes and to attone for transgressions in a way acceptable to society. I don't believe murderers should get off death row simply because they find forgiveness from God. I'm happy for them, but they must still accept societies punishment.

...in any case, to me most liberals pay lip service to religion and then seek glory in their "good deeds" rather than doing what is right simply because it's right. They do not self sacrifice if they can help it because they don't believe one person can make a difference. They believe only by forcing people to help through taxes or other coercion can change ever happen.

personnaly I believe every person just needs to help others as much as they can without endangering themselves or their family. Churches used to take care of the community with donations and tithes. Catholic and other religious orphanages, shelters, soup kitchens and hospitals were everywhere

We Catholics also have a public profession of choice to believe around the age of 14. We call it confirmation. :)

We Texans also hava ritual involving guilt, pain and sacrifice.

We call it High School Football.