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Wanna make a liberal's head explode?

Play the "If George W. Bush had" game with them:

If George W. Bush had doubled the national debt in one year, would you have approved? 

If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within ten years, would you have concurred?

If George W. Bush had criticized a state law that he admitted he never even read, would you think he was just an ignorant hothead?

If George W. Bush joined the country of Mexico and sued a state in the United States to force that state to continue to allow illegal immigration, would you question his patriotism and wonder whose side he was on? 

If George W. Bush had put 87,000 workers out of work by arbitrarily placing a moratorium on offshore oil drilling merely because one company had an accident, would you have thought this was disproportionate and harmful to American workers?

If George W. Bush had forced a change in your health care coverage even though the majority of people did not seek or approve of these changes, would you begin to worry about an abuse of power by the executive branch of the government?

If George W. Bush continually bashed the United States and seemed to side with known dictators, would you feel comfortable?

There's more... and the concluding question is most pointed.


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Comments (32)

Impeach Obamao. ... (Below threshold)
zaugg:

Impeach Obamao.

If George W Bush had a runn... (Below threshold)
914:

If George W Bush had a running 10% unemployment handicap the American people would reject him playing golf constantly seeing him as the worst president evah! And rightfully so.

If George W Bush was president the cretinous dems would not have gotten away with cut and run politics like they have under the current ditherer in cheif.

I could list a thousand points of light but whats the point.

Sorry, but the vast majorit... (Below threshold)
MunDane68:

Sorry, but the vast majority of liberals see no problem with any of that because Obama is doing it for reasons that are good and pure, whereas GWB was poopy greedhead!

See, it is all about the FWEEWINGS!

George Bush is/was an Ameri... (Below threshold)
Jay Guevara:

George Bush is/was an American. Therefore, everything he did was to be deprecated, by definition.

Conversely, half-breed Indonesian Reds can do no wrong.

Simple, really.

But George Bush was eeeeevi... (Below threshold)
liberalnitemare:

But George Bush was eeeeevil!

awesomest picture ever... (Below threshold)
rain of lead:
When Christine O'Donnell wa... (Below threshold)

When Christine O'Donnell was asked about her favorite US Supreme Court decision, I wish she had said "2000, when the court ruled against Gore and for the people of Florida."

That would have caused heads to spin.

Most of them ... "It depend... (Below threshold)
James H:

Most of them ... "It depends."

Impeach Obamao.... (Below threshold)

Impeach Obamao.

Bad idea, unless he's caught blatantly committing an actual felony. Right now the leftists are on the run, and are looking at seeing a historic loss. Impeach their Messiah and they'll rally behind him and push back. Obama will become more popular. Better to slowly destroy everything he and they have worked for, stop him from accomplishing anything, and kick his socialist ass out of office in 2012.

"John, it's been your presi... (Below threshold)

"John, it's been your president who you said you agreed with 90 percent of the time who presided over this increase in spending. This orgy of spending and enormous deficits; you voted for almost all of his budgets." -Barack Obama, 9/26/2008

Before the election, liberals were constantly complaining about the deficits under Bush. As soon as they took office they tripled them.

Of course its RACIST to poi... (Below threshold)

Of course its RACIST to point out these little foibles of Obumble.

Well, out of this long list... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Well, out of this long list of talk-radio talking points and generic Obama-bashing bullshit, I notice one substantive bit:

"If George W. Bush had forced a change in your health care coverage even though the majority of people did not seek or approve of these changes, would you begin to worry about an abuse of power by the executive branch of the government?"

Stupid, stupid, stupid. First, Obama and the Democrats CAMPAIGNED on reforming health care in 2008. Did voters think they would do nothing about health care once they had the presidency and the majority in Congress? It's called "majority rule." See, you elect the politicians that promise to do the things you want, then they do them. Simple, really.

And do the majority really not approve of the changes in their health care coverage? Sure, if you poll people and ask them "Do you support eevil soocialist Obamacare?" they say no, but why don't you poll them and ask if they want to bring back pre-existing conditions or give up covering their grown children until age 26?

And finally, how is it "an abuse of power by the executive branch" when a law is duly passed in Congress and signed by the President? Just talk-radio buzzwords, ladies and gentlemen.

"Stupid, stupid, stupid. Fi... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"Stupid, stupid, stupid. First, Obama and the Democrats CAMPAIGNED on reforming health care in 2008."

Really Bruce? Are you that stupid? Or do you just think that we and the rest of the nation are that stupid that we don't remember obama's constant promises that "If you like your doctor you can keep him. If you like your insurance plan you can keep it"?

Barry promised over and over that his meddling with the health care industry would;

1) decrease costs
2) insure more people
3) not affect your ability to keep you doctor
4) not affect your ability to keep your plan

As it turns out it is already increaing costs

As it turns out it does not cover remotely the numbers of people promised.

As it turns out if your company is killing it's insurance plan your ability to keep your doctor is severely limited.

As it turns out many people are having to change insurance because their companies are either dropping it or they are drastically changing what they offer their employees.

So Bruce, as it turns out you are full of BS.

Bruce- "their grown childre... (Below threshold)
zaugg:

Bruce- "their grown children until age 26" /quote
In what world are children 26 yrs. old and grown? Pathetic.
You pay for your own friggin kids and I will pay for mine. You decide when they go out into the cold cruel world and I will do the same.

"If you like your doctor yo... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"If you like your doctor you can keep him. If you like your insurance plan you can keep it"?

Just another campaign promise with an expiration date. Sort of like that 'shovel-ready job' thing.

Bruce has his head so far up his ass he automatically goes into excuse mode with each expired promise.

Well, out of this long l... (Below threshold)

Well, out of this long list of talk-radio talking points and generic Obama-bashing bullshit

You don't learn from your mistakes, do you Bruce? I mean, you had to apologize in the other thread for copping this sort of attitude, and here you are amping it up to 11. Methinks I'll just treat you as a troll and be done with it.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Well, there's an insightful argument.

First, Obama and the Democrats CAMPAIGNED on reforming health care in 2008.

Really? They campaigned on producing a 2000+ page monstrosity which none of them had even read? They campaigned on lies about how the government wasn't going to try and take over the health care industry? They campaigned on cutting Medicare? Reform. That word means something. And what the Democrats produced wasn't "reform."

In other words, Bruce, they lied. And you're cool with that.

Did voters think they would do nothing about health care once they had the presidency and the majority in Congress?

Voters didn't think they would do "nothing." What voters wanted was something good. Do you not understand that? The Democrats were so intent on passing a bill, any bill, that they didn't care what was in it. And the voters never wanted that. What you're seeing right now is the backlash.

It's called "majority rule."

I'm going to remind you of that in a few weeks, when the Democrats have been stomped flat. Right now the MAJORITY of voters wants this nightmare bill repealed. They want the Democrats swept out of office. They want deficits reduced, they want the government to get the hell out of the way.

It's called "majority rule," Bruce. We'll see if you respect it as much when you're not the majority.

See, you elect the politicians that promise to do the things you want, then they do them. Simple, really.

Except they didn't do them. They campaigned on reducing the deficit. They lied. They campaigned on health care reform. They lied. They campaigned on fixing the economy. They lied. Simple, really.

And do the majority really not approve of the changes in their health care coverage?

Yes, the majority does not approve. In fact, the majority wants the whole thing scrapped.

Sure, if you poll people and ask them "Do you support eevil soocialist Obamacare?" they say no, but why don't you poll them and ask if they want to bring back pre-existing conditions or give up covering their grown children until age 26?

Except that no one is polling in such a way. Nice strawman, Bruce.

And finally, how is it "an abuse of power by the executive branch" when a law is duly passed in Congress and signed by the President?

Because the law in blatantly unconstitutional, and would be whether Barack Obama or George Bush signed it. Just because a law is passed doesn't mean it can't be an abuse of power... or are you suddenly in favor of the Patriot Act? Executive Order #9066? The Fugitive Slave Act? The Espionage Act?

Just talk-radio buzzwords, ladies and gentlemen.

Save it, you sneering leftist *sshole. If you want to be treated like a troll, Bruce, I'll be more than happy to oblige.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.<... (Below threshold)

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Yup, Obama campaigned on health care reform.

What he's done is made it even more fucked up.

Bait and switch...

J.

Hey, I'll be the first to a... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Hey, I'll be the first to admit that the healthcare bill wasn't what I wanted. I wanted single-payer, or at least a public option. But I'll take what the obstructing Republicans and cowering Blue Dog Democrats let me have.

I'd like to see a poll of Wizbang commenters telling me how their employers' insurance plans have changed in the wake of healthcare reform. Mine hasn't. Still got the same cost, still see the same doctor - only difference is, now I can cover my 19 year old. (And yes, zaugg, my kid will always be my kid. "Grown children" is a frequently used figure of speech.)

Now, Otto, I concede that Democrats will most likely take a whoopin' this election, partly due to the success of the GOP scare campaign about "Obamacare." But if you think "the whole thing" will be "scrapped" I suggest you're fooling yourself. While there's lots to object to in the bill, there's a lot that's worth saving, too. And most voters aren't Tea Party partisans, or raving liberals like myself. They're in the middle, and will want some changes, but not that many. At least that's my take.

By the way, Otto, I didn't "have to" apologise in the other thread. I did so, twice, because I was wrong to say what I said in my first comment on that thread. But I could have doubled down and done what Bush did - just refuse to admit any mistakes, ever. Now, THAT would make me a "troll," I guess. Or I could have just disappeared, or attempt to change the subject, as some do here when shown to be wrong. But I didn't.

And you say the healthcare law is unconstitutional, but a Federal appellate court judge says it ain't. So strawman examples like the Fugitive Slave Act (was THAT law ever declared unconstitutional? I honestly don't know.)don't make your point for you.

Feel free to call me names like "sneering leftist asshole" all you like, Otto. Helps us all to see how strong your arguments are.

Thanks Otto,and JT. Now I ... (Below threshold)
epador:

Thanks Otto,and JT. Now I don't feel guilty for heading off the the hardware store when I could be thinking up some snarky response to the BS from BH.
RE: 16
I'd say that's gotta leave a real mark, huh Bruce [expect nasty denial]?
RE: 17
Reader Digest condensed version for the cognitively impaired [ie, trolls]. Expect it to go over their heads in their asses.

Hey, I'll be the first t... (Below threshold)

Hey, I'll be the first to admit that the healthcare bill wasn't what I wanted.

It wasn't what anyone wanted. Except Democrat politicians.

I wanted single-payer, or at least a public option.

More the fool you, then. There's a reason Democrats didn't campaign on that... nobody outside a few leftists want it. Oh, it's what the party wants, don't misunderstand. It's just not what the American people want... most people recognize "single-payer" and "public option" for exactly what they are: socialized medicine.

But I'll take what the obstructing Republicans and cowering Blue Dog Democrats let me have.

Heh, those "cowering Blue Dog Democrats" were the smart ones, the ones who weren't willing to sacrifice their careers to pass this mess. As for the Republicans, well, until the election of Brown they weren't capable of "obstructing" anything. Had Pelosi and Obama decided to craft a careful, less ambitious bill they might have gotten it passed without the games... they didn't. So sorry, buddy, your side has no one to blame but themselves.

I'd like to see a poll of Wizbang commenters telling me how their employers' insurance plans have changed in the wake of healthcare reform. Mine hasn't.

What a stupid argument. Most of the bill hasn't taken effect yet. Tell you what, let's take that poll in two years or so.

Still got the same cost, still see the same doctor - only difference is, now I can cover my 19 year old.

And because nothing has changed in the short time since those provisions took effect, nothing will. Is that your argument?

(And yes, zaugg, my kid will always be my kid. "Grown children" is a frequently used figure of speech.)

Sadly, that wasn't always the case. There was a time when children were forced to grow up.

Now, Otto, I concede that Democrats will most likely take a whoopin' this election,

Oh, you have no idea. It's not going to be a "whoopin'," it's going to be a historic *ss-kicking.

partly due to the success of the GOP scare campaign about "Obamacare."

HAHAHAHA!!! Keep telling yourself that. It'll make it hurt a little less. No, Bruce, the ones who are to blame for this pounding coming your way are the politicians on your own side. They, like you, don't learn from their mistakes. Bill Clinton, a much wiser politician, learned after the Hillarycare debacle that the American people didn't want socialized medicine shoved down their throats and moved to the center. And here we are with the next Democrat administration walking into the same buzzsaw... and party hacks like you think the result will be different.

But if you think "the whole thing" will be "scrapped" I suggest you're fooling yourself.

Never said that. I said that the American people WANT the thing scrapped, not that it will be. When it comes to Democrats, majorities don't rule, and your side won't listen.

While there's lots to object to in the bill, there's a lot that's worth saving, too.

That's nice. It would have been nicer if the Dems had listened to the objections before passing the bill and scrapped the objectionable parts. What we're left with is a mess.

And most voters aren't Tea Party partisans, or raving liberals like myself. They're in the middle, and will want some changes, but not that many. At least that's my take.

Sorry, but polling doesn't back that up. The majority want the thing SCRAPPED and for the Administration to start over.

By the way, Otto, I didn't "have to" apologise in the other thread. I did so, twice, because I was wrong to say what I said in my first comment on that thread.

And this thread has shown that apology to be meaningless, because you've acted like a douchebag from word one. C'mon, Bruce, this is the real you. Just go with it. The one who has contempt for his opponents, the "raving liberal."

But I could have doubled down and done what Bush did - just refuse to admit any mistakes, ever.

Who gives a damn what Bush did? Am *I* George Bush? Are you? You are responsible only for your own actions, and you started with the insults in this thread. Man up and take responsibility.

Now, THAT would make me a "troll," I guess. Or I could have just disappeared, or attempt to change the subject, as some do here when shown to be wrong. But I didn't.

Again, it's about your behavior in this thread. You aren't capable of believing your opponents are thinking human beings who just disagree with you... instead, you think we get our beliefs and ideas from "talk-radio talking points."

And you say the healthcare law is unconstitutional, but a Federal appellate court judge says it ain't.

Well whoop-de-do. ONE Clinton-appointee judge says that it's Constitutional, and thus it is? The question you can't answer (nor can Obama or Pelosi) is what gives them the authority to "reform" health care in the first place.

So strawman examples like the Fugitive Slave Act (was THAT law ever declared unconstitutional? I honestly don't know.)don't make your point for you.

You wrote: "a law is duly passed in Congress and signed by the President," as if the mere passing of a law meant it couldn't be an abuse of power. I noted several laws that were duly passed in Congress and signed by the President that were abuses of power and/or blatantly unconstitutional. No strawman. Do you even know what that is?

And for the record, the Fugitive Slave Act was never declared unconstitutional. Yes, one of the foulest laws ever passed in this nation, and the courts let it slide. Ditto the Espionage Act, the Sedition Act, Roosevelt's Executive Order #9066, and any number of other foul laws and orders throughout history. The court itself has upheld any number of evil laws such as segregation (Plessy v. Ferguson).

Feel free to call me names like "sneering leftist asshole" all you like, Otto.

Oh, I plan to, unless you'd like to apologize on this thread as well.

Helps us all to see how strong your arguments are.

Oh, tearing your arguments apart shows how strong my arguments are.

Bruce -I was post ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Bruce -

I was post to post something nasty about you putting stuff from your life on, when you bitched about me doing it earlier - but there's really no point. We are all the sums of our experiences, and sometimes sharing the experiences lets us understand each other a bit better... if we're inclined to do so.

It's when we're determined to find the other person wrong that their explanations are met with hostility. I'm glad you can cover your 19-year old. So far, it hasn't come up for us.

Re health care plans -

At my work, premiums are going up, as are copays. But since I don't get my insurance through my work (my wife has a much better plan at a much lower cost) I'm not affected much. Our costs are going up about $20 a month on the premiums, copays are going up by $10, urgent care clinics by $25, and ER visits by $50. Coverages are substantially the same.

Nothing insurmountable, just somewhat annoying. It's something to remember that (as Pelosi said) there's still plenty that hasn't kicked in, and since they threw damn near everything in the fridge and kitchen sink into the pot when creating that mess of a health care bill, there's plenty of time for a lot of 'unexpected consequences' to kick in.

Seriously, what's not to love about a trillion-dollar ten-year program that's unknown even to the writers of the bill?

Obama attacked Hillary for ... (Below threshold)
John:

Obama attacked Hillary for suggesting an individual mandate that is now the corner stone of Obamacare.

I am convinced that the lef... (Below threshold)
liberalnitemare:

I am convinced that the left has no political ideology beyond whatever it takes to get their own guy into power.

There is no other way to explain the indifference of the left to the behavior of our current president.

"I'd like to see a poll of ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"I'd like to see a poll of Wizbang commenters telling me how their employers' insurance plans have changed in the wake of healthcare reform. Mine hasn't. "

I'd be glad to oblige. My copays have gone up 30%. My contribution has increased. But I got off easy. They essentially eliminated any healthcare coverage for part time personnel. Virtually all our part timers were carrying health insurance. Now they are all struggling to compete for the two open full time positions that we have. Between the three shifts in my department an average of 20% of the staff are losing their coverage.

Once again we see a lib (in this case Bruce) declaring that other people's suffering is made up propaganda because he doesn't experience the same thing in his life.

Screw you Bruce. I'm glad that you don't have any changes to your health plan. Quit lying about it and saying that it isn't happening elsewhere.

And while one Federal Circuit judge says that the law is constitutional, another says that it might not be and that it should go to trial. Nice job of cherry picking your facts there. Don't want to admit that there might be truth behind those who think different from you do you? Once again another lie from a lib.

I've also read that the fed... (Below threshold)
John:

I've also read that the federal gov has already granted 30 exemptions to Obamacare, makes me wonder why we have a reform if so many are exempt. It also appears that most of the exemptions were for large corporations.

As for me my company self insures today so no change yet, but we are about to go through our 2011 selection process it will be interesting to see how/if there are changes I expect there will be.

"I'd like to see a poll of ... (Below threshold)
Brian The Adequate:

"I'd like to see a poll of Wizbang commenters telling me how their employers' insurance plans have changed in the wake of healthcare reform. Mine hasn't. "

Not yet, but like most companies, the one I work for has a year to year contract with the insurance companies. We will get our first detailed look at 2011 benefits and costs in mid November, the powers that be are already putting out the word to expect premiums to go up more than last year.

Well, Otto, I guess you tol... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Well, Otto, I guess you told me.

I won't argue with many of your points, as they are good ones, and things can certainly be seen as you have described them if one is disposed to see them that way.

I will point out one inconsistency, though. In one part of your diatribe you state how "until the election of Brown, they (Republicans) couldn't obstruct anything." But later, you say that the whole bill won't be scrapped because "when it comes to Democrats, majorities don't rule, and your side won't listen."

So, which is it? Can a minority party obstruct the majority's will, or not?

Also, "Sorry, but polling doesn't back that up." While it's true that polls show people saying they want "Obamacare" scrapped, when pollsters ask about specific provisions IN the bill, most people are in favor of those specific provisions, such as the pre-existing conditions and covering adult children. When it comes to a vote even die-hard Tea Partiers aren't gonna reinstate the preexisting condition, etc.

As for, "Who gives a damn what Bush did," it's kinda the subject of this post - what Bush did or did not do.

And, finally, what insults? While it's true that I said the one item on this list of talk-radio talking points (Obama's 57 states, Obama's alleged "America-bashing", Obama's "need" for a teleprompter, etc etc ad nauseum) that was substantive was stupid stupid stupid, I certainly didn't insult anyone here, or suggest that talk-radio talking points formed the only basis for your opinions. I just pointed out that this particular list was, in my opinion, just that - a bunch of talk-radio talking points.

What is the basis for this apparent inferiority complex I always hear from Republicans and Libertarians? This belief that, because one disagrees with them, that one must think himself superior? That those who disagree are "elitists" or whatever?

I assure you I don't feel superior to conservatives. You in particular, Otto, seem pretty fucking smart to me. So don't get upset about every snarky phrase. You can handle yourself pretty good, it seems to me.

"Stupid, stupid, stupid"... (Below threshold)
914:

"Stupid, stupid, stupid"

Lets not make this thread about Dane.

What if Bush had taken over... (Below threshold)
John:

What if Bush had taken over an american car company and given 55% ownership to Haliburton?

#29The dems... (Below threshold)
914:

#29


The dems on here and abroad would be burning W's likeness in effigy and branding cheney satans darth lord of big oil. Ohh wait, they already did that.


What if George W Boosh had "stimulated" the economy by paying off vote fabricators and foreign puppet masters?

Bruce Henry, I'll ... (Below threshold)
Chip:

Bruce Henry,

I'll be glad to tell you how my company health insurance policy changed in the wake of Obamacare...within hours of the signing...they dropped our insurance, and I was told I'd have to shop for my own. I have pre-existing conditions so I'm sure you kind of know how the rest turned out. I simply just can't afford the premiums for persons with pre-existing conditions.

I'm one of those you've heard about losing coverage but just couldn't believe that companies would do that to their employees, well they are, and with the way the job market is now there is little chance of me getting a job that has a benefits package. Right now I have a job, it's a fairly good job, was a great job before Obamacare, but now my measly salary is all I have and I'm thankful for that, but just barely.

So, yeah, thanks Obamacare.

All of the nonunion employe... (Below threshold)
John:

All of the nonunion employees of Boeing will see major changes in their healthcare coverage.




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