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Warning Shots

The election's barely a week away, and we're already getting signs of just how the Democrats might be trying to win it -- by hook or by crook, with emphasis on "crook."

If there is one aspect of our system that we simply cannot bear any assing around with, it is free and fair elections. Any kind of attempt to circumvent the laws governing elections needs to be stomped down, and stomped down hard.

Let's start small. Let's start with First Lady Michelle Obama. She returned to Chicago to cast her early vote last week, and in the process decided to do a bit of impromptu politicking -- in the polling station.

No big deal, right? Yeah, it's against the law, but it's trivial, in the big picture. And it was probably an innocent mistake.

Sorry, she doesn't get that excuse. She's the wife of a career politician, an Ivy League-educated lawyer, and her father was a Democratic precinct captain in Chicago. She simply cannot plead ignorance. Arrogance, yes -- after all she's the First Lady and the laws for little people shouldn't apply to her -- but not ignorance.

As wrong as it was, that's small potatoes. Hell, that's not even potatoes, it's parsley. Where's the beef?

There's enough beef to dress up Lady Gaga for the rest of her life.

Down in Houston, Texas, Democratic Representative Sheila Jackson Lee is hanging around a polling place, chatting up voters and hassling poll watchers.

Meanwhile, in Harris County, a group of citizens have taken it upon themselves to do what our public officials can't be bothered to do -- comply with the law and clean up the voter registration rolls. In response for exposing the blatant fraud and chicanery, they're being demonized and even sued.

In Arizona and Colorado, we are reminded that while ACORN might be gone in name, its legacy lives on -- as an SEIU subsidiary is continuing the tradition of flooding voter rolls with bogus registrations.

This shit's gotta stop. This shit's gotta get beaten down, and beaten down hard.

And it's clear that the Obama/Holder Justice Department isn't the least bit interested in doing any of that.


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Comments (130)

I agree with you that it ha... (Below threshold)
Matt:

I agree with you that it has to be stopped and stopped hard. I agre that this administration will only encourage tha act and conspire with the perpetrators to commit greater acts of fraud. I don't recall the Bush administration doing much to fight this either even though it was blatant during his term too, and perpetrated by his opponents.

Videotape the perps and pos... (Below threshold)
Roy:

Videotape the perps and post the stuff on line. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

Most of these organisms are... (Below threshold)
epador:

Most of these organisms are resistant to UV rays. Sunlight doesn't work. And the justice department (no longer deserving capitalization) won't work it either.

That leaves the people. If their votes are being neutralized, then there really aren't many alternatives, are there?

We The People will need to ... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

We The People will need to stop this...and sooner or later it is going to take force to do so.

That's why the Dems are pushing "Early Voting" and "Absentee Voting"...it makes it harder for We The People to check who's voting! Which means we need to stop it at registration!

Volunteer to check voter registration...wherever you are!

It's too late to do anythin... (Below threshold)
jim m:

It's too late to do anything about the criminality surrounding the dems GOTV effort. They will get thousands of illegal votes in key races. tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands across the country. I have said for a long time that the reason they can publicly state confidence that they will will is because they will steal it.

IF we are able to win back the House then there must be a concerted effort to clean up the voter rolls. We must find a way to enforce an ID check at the poll.

This is our last chance. If we win next week and do not clean up the voter fraud that the dems are using to rig the vote then we may never win another election.

As Democrats like to say "V... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

As Democrats like to say "Vote early, vote often".

What a morally bankrupt par... (Below threshold)
Hank:

What a morally bankrupt party the democrats are.

You'd think someone in their midst would speak out against this, and yet no one does.

Until people start going aw... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

Until people start going away for a long time (to have access to their rectum traded for a pack of smokes, repeatedly) this will not stop. Unfortunately this won't happen under a democrat-led government.

"What a morally bankrupt pa... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

"What a morally bankrupt party the democrats are."

I agree. However, I do not expect the established Republican leadership to be as equally enthusiastic about pushing back. They do benefit in many ways from the power the Democrats coerce from us.

This is how the bitch ass c... (Below threshold)
914:

This is how the bitch ass cheatin skanks got into power. Not because of "hope and change" or Barrys charisma. No, dishonesty and deception in the pursuit of power is the name of the snake eye'd dems game.

Also, That wookie needs a c... (Below threshold)
914:

Also, That wookie needs a citizen's arrest and to be frog marched right where her ugly puss belongs.

I signed up to be a poll wo... (Below threshold)
BlueNight:

I signed up to be a poll worker at my own precinct's polling location (with three other precincts). Even though my district is in a university area, there are Republicans in the neighborhood.

During the primary, our head poll worker for the pricinct I worked was an idiot as far as procedure goes. He fouled up three different things, and so it didn't go quite as well as I had expected. (But the vote was fair, as far as I could tell.)

Both sides do it, but diffe... (Below threshold)
galoob:

Both sides do it, but differently.

The Dems put people who shouldn't vote like illegals, or only should vote once on the list.

The Repubs try to purge the names of people who should vote off the lists. For example, anyone named Tyrone Jackson or Lakeisha Johnson.

That leaves the people. ... (Below threshold)
TexBob:

That leaves the people. If their votes are being neutralized, then there really aren't many alternatives, are there?

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson

This shit's gotta stop. ... (Below threshold)
galoob:

This shit's gotta stop. This shit's gotta get beaten down, and beaten down hard.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson

Tough-guy JT is whipping up the boobs again.

JT, you're not going to be beating anyone hard, whatta joke.

BTW, that quote from Jefferson is what McVeigh had printed on his t-shirt.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcveigh/t-shirt.jpg

Hey, everybody! Come look! ... (Below threshold)

Hey, everybody! Come look! galoob's playing the "hey, look over here again!" game!

Poor schmuck. He used to be good at it, but now it's just sad.

Nothing to say about the disgusting voter fraud attempts going on, galoob? Or haven't you got your latest DNC talking points on that one?

I bet that's it. You don't know what to say for yourself, so you stick with what's worked in the past -- change the subject. That shouldn't have worked in the past, and it ain't gonna work now.

Besides, you're even failing at that -- the latest (fraudulent) meme is that Timothy McVeigh was a Christian terrorist, and you're not supposed to bring up things that detract from that.

Man, you're pathetic.

J.

"Man, you're pathetic."... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Man, you're pathetic."

He even got to throw in the race card. Bet he can't wait until 2012.

Checked your 401k recently,... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Checked your 401k recently, Galoob? Don't you look forward to donating it so the unions will be able to pay their pensions?

And you're trying all you can to make sure it's taken - gotta applaude your dedication!

You're right, Jay Tea - he's lost it.

Galoob-"The Rep... (Below threshold)
914:

Galoob-

"The Repubs try to purge the names of people who should vote off the lists. For example, anyone named Tyrone Jackson or Lakeisha Johnson."

You lying sack of race baiting dung galoob.


galoob is talking about boo... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

galoob is talking about boobs again...WHERE? I can't see from here. I want to see the...

I'm sorry. I just reread his post. Never mind.

Nothing to say about the... (Below threshold)
galoob:

Nothing to say about the disgusting voter fraud attempts going on, galoob?

What, Michelle Obama talking to one voter inside a polling place?

Rep. Lee saying something inside the polling place?

Meh. Does not justify your "warning shots" or vulgar threats of beatings.


I see galoob condones votin... (Below threshold)
Hank:

I see galoob condones voting fraud.
I'm not surprised.

I also see that Jay mentioned Mrs Obama politicking at a polling place. Obviously, Barry isn't the only one in the WH with an out of control ego. Can you imagine the outrage if Mrs Bush had done that? Instead the LSM ignores it.

I guess the final irony of this topic is the Harris county vote watchers being sued for trying to keep the elections in their district honest.

Next time democrats talk about integrity, try not to laugh too loud.

Lets not let gaboob steal t... (Below threshold)
914:

Lets not let gaboob steal the thread again. I know im as guilty as anyone, but this is serious stuff.

Vote stealing/tampering/ amounts to stealing our liberty. I dont care if the so called first lady is doing it or a union thug.

You mess with our liberty, your going down in flames.

Galoob either doesn't know ... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

Galoob either doesn't know the story of purging voter rolls or he does know and deliberately mischaraterizes it because it's the only sorry excuse for ammo he could come up with.

We went through it here in Florida and if not for the Dems blocking efforts to do it the right way we could have had much cleaner voter rolls. But they weren't interested in purging the rolls of felons and illegals (since it's the only way they can win) so they made it nigh impossible to do it accurately and then raised holy hell threatening to sue everyone and their mother because it wasn't accurate.

No campaigning inside a pol... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

No campaigning inside a polling place, Galoob - even if you're the First Lady, and you're only talking to one person. And if she'd been a Republican, it'd STILL be just as wrong.

But then again, rules are just for the little people - right?

"Next time democrats talk about integrity, try not to laugh too loud."

Gave up on expecting constancy and integrity from the left back in the early '90s, Hank. Girlfriend I was dating was a leftist - very much into women's rights and so on, and was very incensed by the Thomas-Hill mess. "No woman would claim something like that if it wasn't true!" was the message... and then Clinton ran for office, with all the scandals attending his run. And those bitches were LYING through their teeth...

It's all about the affiliation.

We went through it here ... (Below threshold)
galoob:

We went through it here in Florida and if not for the Dems blocking efforts to do it the right way we could have had much cleaner voter rolls. But they weren't interested in purging the rolls of felons and illegals (since it's the only way they can win) so they made it nigh impossible to do it accurately and then raised holy hell threatening to sue everyone and their mother because it wasn't accurate.

Glad you brought up the Florida purge, it is well known that many people were denied their right to vote in the purge conducted by Republican Secretary of State and Bush campaign chair Katherine Harris. Just "by chance" almost all of those people were black:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A99749-2001May30

The Tampa residents were among hundreds, perhaps thousands, of non-felons in Florida who civil rights lawyers contend were wrongly prevented from voting in the Nov. 7 election after state election officials and a private contractor bungled an attempt to cleanse felons from voter rolls. . . . The impact of the botched felon purge fell disproportionately on black Floridians and, by extension, on the Democratic Party, which won the votes of 9 out of every 10 African American voters, according to exit polls.
#26Liar... (Below threshold)
914:

#26


Liar

"Just "by chance" almost al... (Below threshold)
Hank:

"Just "by chance" almost all of those [felons] people were black"

Nice try galoob. The facts however are quite different from your assertion.

DBT was the firm chosen to identify all convicted felons who were illegally registered to vote in Florida.

According to the Palm Beach Post (May 27, 2001),

...a review of state records, internal e-mails of DBT employees and testimony before the civil rights commission and an elections task force showed no evidence that minorities were specifically targeted.

Records show that DBT told the state it would not use race as a criterion to identify felons. The list itself bears that out: More than 1,000 voters were matched with felons though they were of different races.

Skeptical of the list's [DBT's] accuracy, elections supervisors in 20 counties (including Palm Beach) ignored it altogether, thereby allowing thousands of felons to vote.


As for this nonsense "it is... (Below threshold)
Hank:

As for this nonsense "it is well known that many people were denied their right to vote in the purge conducted by Republican Secretary of State and Bush campaign chair Katherine Harris."

Here's why it happened.

The 1998 mayoral election in Miami was a fiasco which was declared void by Florida courts, because--in violation of Florida law--convicted felons had been allowed to vote. The Florida legislature ordered the executive branch to purge felons from the voting rolls before the next election.

Harris did not sign the contract with the company that created the purge list. She did not carry out the purges. And the county officials who did carry out the purges-many of them Democrats-- were supposed to verify the lists before using them.

"it is well known that many... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"it is well known that many people were denied their right to vote"

Why? Because.......

"The Tampa residents were among hundreds, perhaps thousands, of non-felons in Florida who civil rights lawyers CONTEND were wrongly prevented from voting...."

See how easy that is? You just CONTEND something. No need for PROOF. Which might further explain why these "lawyers" don't know if HUNDREDS or even THOUSANDS were impacted.


Come on everyone. Galoob is... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Come on everyone. Galoob is saying that Dem voter fraud is OK because the GOP suppresses minority voting.

Of course we are talking about dem fraud in Texas and he is talking about alleged vote supression in Florida. Of course that supression wasn't done by republicans but byt he local government but who cares abuot things like facts when you can blame your political opponent.

What this should make very clear to everyone is that the dems feel absolutely justified in destroying the society we live in for their own personal gain. They feel that loading up the rolls with felons and illegals is OK. They see that if real voters are dropped in a purge that it is merely a benefit of their fraud that it is so difficult to remove their bogus registrations.

Perhaps this country is already lost. I'm thinking that the only solution may be to wipe out the entire voter datebase and force people to reregister and provide multiple ids to do so. The dems have no problem making me provide an id to buy beer or to get a job, but they won't make me show one to vote. What BS.

Looks like galoob brought s... (Below threshold)
914:

Looks like galoob brought some low life trolls from Kos with him. Probably lee ward AKA dane the sum of zero existence to circle jerk negs with him.

"Perhaps this country is... (Below threshold)
914:

"Perhaps this country is already lost. I'm thinking that the only solution may be to wipe out the entire voter datebase and force people to reregister and provide multiple ids to do so. The dems have no problem making me provide an id to buy beer or to get a job, but they won't make me show one to vote. What BS."


That sums the whole filthy mess up nicely jim. You cant choose to not wear a seatbelt ( of course no motorcycle helmet is ok ) yet id for a job, cigs and liquor. Its about money power and control. I agree with wiping the slate clean and starting again. Starting this november there had better be inestigations and prison time for the perps including Holder inc.

Don't forget the thousands ... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Don't forget the thousands of overseas military voters that won't get counted because their absentee ballots 'just happened' to not be sent out on time. Disgraceful.

I'm not saying either side ... (Below threshold)
galoob:

I'm not saying either side is right, but they are two sides of the same shitty coin.

The Dems practice vote-stuffing, the Repubs practice voter suppression.

Things like this:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2004/December/04_crm_768.htm

and this:

http://coloradoindependent.com/13152/more-than-3000-registered-coloradans

and this:

http://www.mtstandard.com/news/opinion/article_e0f53cc5-ddb4-5bc3-a42b-e82d567567e7.html

As the saying goes, "All's fair in love, war and politics." But the executive director of the Republican Party crossed the line when he attempted to remove 6,000 voters from the rolls in Montana. These voters are law-abiding citizens and are legally registered. Some are veterans. Others are active servicemen, serving in Iraq and Afghanistan or about to be deployed there.

As a Republican, I was ashamed to hear of this. But as a Marine, I was outraged. Why would the Republican Party, which always claims to care greatly about our troops, do this?

It appears that Republican operatives looked to gain an advantage by purging as many voters as possible from counties that lean Democrat. The director of the Republican Party issued a blanket challenge to validly registered voters based on false criteria, trying to persuade election clerks that a mere change of mailing address is grounds for automatic cancellation of voter registration.

Not only was the effort blatantly deceptive, but the Republicans based their challenge on a national change-of-address database from an out-of-state vendor who sells personal information. Among other problems, this database lists servicemen and women who have been deployed overseas as having moved out of Montana. In other words, if you go to Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Fort Sill, Okla., to report for active duty, you have "moved out of the state" according to this list.

Speaking of that Les, I hav... (Below threshold)
914:

Speaking of that Les, I have not recieved mine yet? Barrys minions in St. Paul better hope they are not tempting fate by playing with the ballots. I know where they work.

gloob, there are 2 sides to... (Below threshold)
John:

gloob, there are 2 sides to the coin the dems try to stuff the ballot box with convicted felons and dead people and republicans try to purge the voter rolls of felons and dead people. One side of the coin is indeed shitty.

One, if you follow the Thin... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

One, if you follow the Think Progress links in Mr Tea's "demonized" link, you can see the other side of the story of the "heroic" volunteers who make up the "True the Vote" project. Liars and racists, maybe? Questions swirl.

And secondly, it occurs to me that I've seen a LOT of stories lately from Jay Tea and other rightwing tools (no offense, Mr Tea) claiming that the eeevil ACORNDemislamunistofascists are fixin' to steal this election by massive registration fraud.

Why, it's almost as if they're setting us all up for a claim that, if the GOP doesn't win as big as they've led us to believe they would, the election can be de-legitimized!

Mr Tea, are you trying to say that ACORN is trying to set fire to the Reichstag Building? Is that your real purpose with these posts?

Sorry Bruce, there is just ... (Below threshold)
914:

Sorry Bruce, there is just no way I can vote You a + on that spew.

Bruce, I'm sorry I didn't s... (Below threshold)

Bruce, I'm sorry I didn't spell out what I was trying to say with the Think Progress link. Here it is: there's a missing step in their logic chain.

1) True The Vote exposes serious voter registration fraud.
2) The targets exposed by True The Vote gets nasty phone calls.

Where is the proof that True The Vote was behind the calls?

Further, let's presume that the calls came from True The Vote volunteers. Does that somehow invalidate the results of their investigations?

Nope, all it does is give the scam artists and their useful idiots cover to discredit the initial expose' of their scam.

Don't be their useful idiot, Bruce.

J.

Follow the links in the TP ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Follow the links in the TP stories, Mr Tea. The True the Vote lady claims Houston Votes used vacant lot registration, etc., a claim vigorously denied by the group.

Apparently they say she (Ms Engelbracht) is lying when she says "most" of their registrations are invalid, and apparently she IS lying when she says Houston Votes did "vacant-lot" registrations - they were done BEFORE Houston Votes was even founded! And BEFORE the lots WERE vacant!

She also lied by claiming that the headquarters of the Houston Votes group was the headquarters of the New Black Panther Party. Just a flat out bald faced made up out of thin air lie.

By the way, True the Vote is being sued for libel and defamation, not for harassing phone calls, and definitely not for volunteer work.

But no, if True the Vote members DID make those phone calls, that wouldn't invalidate their "investigation." However, lying like Ms Engelbrecht is alleged to have done would.

I was really counting on a ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

I was really counting on a positive vote from you, too, Mr 914. It's what I live for - positive votes from Wizbang commenters.

#42At least in thi... (Below threshold)
914:

#42

At least in this realm, all the votes are counted. No cheating by you and your ilk.

I've done work for a Board ... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

I've done work for a Board of Election. The massive fraud of phony voter registration by left-wing groups is legend, in this highly democratic county. Thousands of phony voter registration cards dumped on the Board on the last day of registration, with little time to check. In their secret moments, even the Ds at the Board cursed ACORN and its allies.
Little if any purging of polling records for the deletion of dead people or those who've moved, whether by choice or by a jury of their peers sending them to be a ward of the state. The Ds should be ashamed - but they are incapable of shame.
Late on the evening of the 2008 Primary [I think it was about 25-30 minutes before the polls were to close], a totally spurious challenge, by the Obama folks, heard on an emergency basis before a Clinton appointed, African-American judge, kept the polls open late. The basis, an affidavit of someone in DC who had heard about something happening in our state, but not even in our county. It was a ridiculous lawsuit based on an even more ridiculous affidavit. One of my true-believer D friends was so disgusted, she told me she went home and tore off her Obama bumper-sticker. Oh, the lawyer who brought the suit? He's now a US Attorney.

Why is it the more smug Bru... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Why is it the more smug Bruce gets, the faster he is to call everyone Mr?

When you worked on the Boar... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

When you worked on the Board, Mr Cronanty, how many of those thousands of fraudulently registered voters showed up to actually vote on election day?

Because I'm sure it would be pretty easy to register Mickey Mouse, or a dead guy, but getting Mickey Mouse or a dead guy to the polls is another matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that there has never been a conviction of actual VOTING fraud related to ACORN registrations, despite all the many allegations of registration fraud.

Smug, Mr Wuzzy? What do I h... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Smug, Mr Wuzzy? What do I have to be smug about?

You're not admitting that there are two sides to the True the Vote/Houston Votes story, are you?

Now, now, Mr. SCSIwuzzy [if... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Now, now, Mr. SCSIwuzzy [if it's Ms., which I don't think it is, but I've been horribly wrong before], I think Mr. Henry is just trying to be civil. I'm on the complete opposite political spectrum [well, not complete opposite, Mr. Henry does believe that the Voting Rights Act should be enforced in a race-neutral manner], and I try, not always successfully, to be civil and polite and, therefore, use "Mr." as I think appropriate. I think Mr. Henry is trying to do the same. We can disagree without being disagreeable - except for gaboob, of course.

Getting a dead guy to the p... (Below threshold)
914:

Getting a dead guy to the polls may be difficult. Giving them taxpayer stimulus dollars is not. Just ask Barry.

Well, I see our "post par... (Below threshold)
LeBron Steinman:

Well, I see our "post partisan" prez has encouraged Latino voters to get out there and "punish your enemies".
Now that's what I call a new tone.
I wonder if Brucie, Goober et. al. have gotten their marching orders on who to punish.
Looks as if he's kicked it up a notch from "get in their faces".

Mr. Henry, please don't com... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Mr. Henry, please don't comment when you haven't googled.
"Cuyahoga County, OH - 19 Action News has learned of breaking developments in possibly hundreds of questionable or duplicate voter-registration forms submitted by an advocacy group that has been accused of election fraud.

In sworn testimony before the Cuyahoga County BOE Monday morning, Freddie Johnson and Christopher Barkley admitted they submitted multiple voter registration cards and were encouraged to do so by ACORN.

The men say they were out on Public Square when they were approached repeatedly by ACORN group workers who told them they would be fired if they didn't meet a quota of registrations for the day.

Johnson says he signed 73 cards while Barkley claims he signed 13 fraudulent registration forms. The cases will now go to the County Prosecutor, the Sheriff's Office and the FBI.

Up until this point, ACORN has steadfastly denied any intent of fraud. The group says it has signed up 1.3M poor, hard working-class voters in a mass registration drive in 18 states this year."

Of course, convictions are hard to come by, as intent, plus going through hundreds of thousands voter registration cards is difficult - but here's a conviction for you: "That's because Darnell Nash (his mug shot appears above) was recently convicted of vote fraud in addition to the lesser crime of voter-registration fraud."

"Johnson says he signed ... (Below threshold)
914:

"Johnson says he signed 73 cards while Barkley claims he signed 13 fraudulent registration forms. The cases will now go to the County Prosecutor, the Sheriff's Office and the FBI."

Whatever they choose to do, just dont send the evidence to Holder.

Permanent early voter regis... (Below threshold)
Will:

Permanent early voter registration provides
"an early ballot will automatically be mailed to the voter approximately 26 days prior to each election."
SEIU via Mi Familia Vota claims to have assisted 46000 to register.
What could possibly go wrong? It's not like anyone would ever buy or strong-arm those ballots away from the voters. I am sure the State jealously guards the list.
"Plata o Plomo" could never rear its ugly head in Arizona. Sleep well mi amigos.

galoob - they conveniently ... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

galoob - they conveniently don't tell you the whole story and you're not at all interested in knowing the truth so keep skipping down your merry path of denial if it makes you happy.

Re # 51:That's why... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Re # 51:

That's why I said "Correct me if I'm wrong," Mr Cronanty.

So you've got thousands of allegations of registration fraud, some undetermined number of convictions of registration fraud, but only ONE conviction for actual vote fraud.

Like I said, this smells like the Reichstag Fire to me.

"So you've got thousands of... (Below threshold)
914:

"So you've got thousands of allegations of registration fraud, some undetermined number of convictions of registration fraud, but only ONE conviction for actual vote fraud."


Where theres smoke theres fire.

Brilliant stuff, Mr 914. I ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Brilliant stuff, Mr 914. I can't put anything over on you, can I?

Mr. Henry, the difficulties... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Mr. Henry, the difficulties in prosecuting a case of voter fraud are daunting, to say the least. Take for example, the fact that you can register as living at the "bus stop at 33rd and Main." As long as you have some phony baloney id reference, you're golden. The only person who could challenge the person who voted at the precinct for the bus stop at 33rd and Main AND the precinct for the bus stop at 85th and Maple is a poll judge. How are they going to know? Two different judges at two different precincts. Homeless shelters receive hundreds of absentee ballots. Think they're all legit? I don't, and I doubt you do. Or, take the college student who is registered to vote at home and requests an absentee ballot, while registering to vote at his out of state college. Who's going to catch him, Mr. Henry? Ya think AG Holder will take a look at such situations? I didn't think so. Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't voter fraud.

Well, Mr. Henry, what could... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Well, Mr. Henry, what could possibly go wrong with this plan in Wisconsin? Thousands more ballots than registered voters? Well, since there weren't any convictions for voter fraud, obviously nothing was amiss, right? Move along, nothing to see here. "Democrat Bill Eliminates Checks & Balances Preventing Voter Fraud

Madison, WI... In a press conference held Wednesday, Legislative Republican leaders revealed how a bill backed by Democrats could lead to dramatically increased voter fraud in Wisconsin. According to Assembly Minority Leader Jeff Fitzgerald and Senate Minority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, "The Voter Fraud Bill," Assembly Bill (AB) 895 and its companion, Senate Bill (SB) 640, will leave Wisconsin with the weakest voter protections in the nation.

"We should be making it easier to vote, but harder to cheat. Instead, this bill all but guarantees cheating," said Rep. Jeff Fitzgerald (R-Horicon). "By automatically registering nearly everyone in Wisconsin, giving that list to any ACORN-like group that wants it, and eliminating the handful of checks and balances we have, this bill creates a super highway to voter fraud."

According to Rep. Fitzgerald, the bill requires personal information from the Wisconsin driver's license database and all other state agency databases to be dumped into the voter registration lists. The lists would be accessible to anyone who requested them, such as shadowy third-party groups like ACORN.

Current safeguards that help deter people from voting in someone else's name would be eliminated. Anyone would be allowed to request a ballot by email, but there would no longer be a requirement to have a voter's signature on an absentee ballot envelope.

"We've seen thousands more ballots cast than registered voters in Milwaukee, smokes for votes with the homeless, slashed tires on election vans, and felons voting all over the state. Just last week in Green Bay, there were elections that were determined by a handful of votes and numerous instances of voter fraud," said Sen. Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau). "At a time when we need to restore the public confidence in our elections, this bill eliminates the integrity of the vote."

All of those things you say... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

All of those things you say may be so, Mr Cronanty, but in that case, voter fraud is hardly a new phenomenon.

What I'm suggesting is that this wave of paranoid stories about how ACORN-type groups are trying to steal this election from good God-fearing conservatives seems suspect to me. As I said, it's almost as if these rightwing rabblerousers are laying the groundwork for a claim that, if the election doesn't go their way, it's because Democrats "stole" it!

Which is eerily reminiscent of fascist tactics.

Comment # 60 was directed a... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Comment # 60 was directed at comment # 58, BTW.

As to comment 60, yes the D... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

As to comment 60, yes the Ds did use fascist tactics in claiming the 2000 election was stolen.
PS Why am I always "This hour's winner" in that hideous flashing ad? Isn't anyone else on here except Mr. Henry and I? Sorry if I've won all of your prizes, Mr. Henry.

Hey, I thought I was this h... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Hey, I thought I was this hour's winner! No fair!

I'm having trouble with the Wisconsin story. Is it about a bill that's pending, or has the bill already passed? Because the guy from Juneau is saying that thousands more votes "have been" cast than there are registered voters in Milwaukee.

By the way, a story that us... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

By the way, a story that uses the terms "Democrat Bill" and "shadowy third-party groups like ACORN" could maybe, just maybe, be from a suspect source. Perhaps they are coloring the truth a little?

And yet I never said you we... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

And yet I never said you were justified in your smugness Bruce. As usual you read what you wanted to in the text. You and Crickmore make it too easy...

Here's the cite: <a href="h... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Here's the cite: http://legis.wisconsin.gov/senate/sen13/news/Press/2010/story.asp?LinkSfx=pr2010-014.asp
The Juneau referenced is Juneau, Wisconsin - Betcha thought Sarah Palin planted that story, dinchya?
As to more ballots than registered voters, maybe you would like this cite, instead:
" MILWAUKEE -- A task force that was investigating possible voter fraud in Milwaukee released its findings Tuesday.

U.S. Attorney Steven Biskupic said investigators found more than 4,500 ballots were cast in Milwaukee than registered voters in the Nov. 2 election."

I don't want to get this caught in the spam filter, so google "more ballots registered voters". It's on an ABC news outlet source.

Mr. Henry - here's the ABC ... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Mr. Henry - here's the ABC cite: http://www.wisn.com/r/4472834/detail.html

Mr. Henry - 4,500 more ball... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Mr. Henry - 4,500 more ballots than registered voters, says the US Attorney. Yet, no convictions. Is everything a-ok because there's no convictions?

Well, it appears that this ... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Well, it appears that this is a dead thread, so I'll throw this totally off the topic story in the mix - well there is no mix, so if anybody sees this, have fun.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/exclusive-aide-to-harry-reid-lied-to-feds-submitted-false-documents-about-sham-marriage/
"An aide to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid repeatedly lied to federal immigration and FBI agents and submitted false federal documents to the Department of Homeland Security to cover up her illegal seven-year marriage to a Lebanese national who was the subject of an Oklahoma City Joint Terror Task Force investigation, FoxNews.com has learned."
Kinda makes Meg Whitman's faux controversy look small in comparison, no?

Sorry, Mr Cronanty, had to ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Sorry, Mr Cronanty, had to leave for a while.

Hey, I'm a little confused by the ABC cite. If there were 4500 more votes cast than registered voters, why is there no evidence of a "pattern of conspiracy?" Is there a plot by "shadowy third-party groups like ACORN" or not?

Oh, and this ABC story is from 2005, way before the eevil ACORN hit the headlines.

Oh, and What Ever, Mr Wuzzy... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Oh, and What Ever, Mr Wuzzy. You wanna participate, or do you just wanna snipe at me?

It seems to me the real que... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

It seems to me the real question in the "Reid aide" case is, "Why didn't Bush's DHS inform Harry Reid that his aide was being investigated?"

After all, according to FOX, "the highest levels of management" were aware of the situation, and, following protocol, "the majority leader should have been informed of the investigation through those channels as well."

Mr. Henry, as why no indict... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Mr. Henry, as why no indictments/charges, I don't know. You'll either have to take my word that such charges are almost impossible to prove [plus are politically charged to the max] or you'll have to ask the US Attorney for Wisconsin.
Your point concerning that the 4,500 votes in excess of registered voters happened in 2005, "...way before the eevil ACORN hit the headlines..." is irrelevant and demonstrates that either you didn't do your research or the MSM didn't do its job [gosh, I wonder which one is correct?]: "Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud."
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/
Now, let's see - hmmmm, 1986 - was that before or after Obama was a community organizer training ACORN employees?

No, Mr. Henry, the question... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

No, Mr. Henry, the question is: Why Sen. Reid's aide think it is was alright to lie, repeatedly, to federal immigration and FBI agents and submit false federal documents to the Department of Homeland Security. Did she think that the good Senator from Nevada was sufficient cover?
And, I ask again, Mr. Henry, 4,500 more ballots than registered voters, says the US Attorney. Yet, no convictions. Is everything a-ok because there's no convictions?

Comment 74 replies to comme... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Comment 74 replies to comment 72, 73 to 71, and I'm still this hour's winner, you son-of-a-bitch! There, I'm trying to get into the spirit of this commenting thing. And I feel much better.

Not only were there no indi... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Not only were there no indictments/charges, the task force "did not find any pattern of conspiracy to commit fraud."

It may very well be difficult to prove voter fraud, but it shouldn't be hard to discern a "pattern of conspiracy" if there is a pattern to be discerned.

The links on your Pajamas Media cite don't work, but all the allegations seem to be about REGISTRATION fraud, not actual fraudulent votes cast

# 74:Except that w... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

# 74:

Except that when she was repeatedly lying to Federal agents, she WASN'T an aide to Reid. And when Reid was belatedly informed of her activity - activity that occurred before she began work for him - he fired her.

Mr. Henry, I honestly answe... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Mr. Henry, I honestly answered your question concerning President Reagan and Iran/Contra. Why won't you answer mine re: "4,500 more ballots than registered voters, says the US Attorney. Yet, no convictions. Is everything a-ok because there's no convictions?" You're dancing around this question like a blue-dog democrat around his/her vote for Obamacare. Come on, in the words of Sarah Palin: "Man up."


77- You mean Harry Reid was... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

77- You mean Harry Reid was so heartless that he fired her on the spot? Didn't give her a chance to explain herself. Oh, the humanity!

No, everything is not OK ab... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

No, everything is not OK about 4500 more votes being cast than there are registered voters.

And I'm not trying to dance, but how can it be that that could happen, yet there be no evidence of a pattern of conspiracy to MAKE it happen? And for whom were those votes cast? Were they all, or mostly, cast for one candidate or party? Or were they all over the map? The article doesn't say.

The only way I can see for it to happen is for the votes to be distributed to more than one candidate or party, thus allaying suspicion of a conspiracy.

If that is so, while it's not a-ok, it's not the end of the world, either.

Mr. Henry - just so we don'... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Mr. Henry - just so we don't get side-tracked, my quote concerning the 1986 CONVICTIONS of ACORN employees was in response to your assertion that ACORN wan't in the headlines in 2005. First, you're factually wrong, unless the MSM failed to report on the 12 convictions for voter registration fraud in 1986, and second, your comment was irrelevant to ACORN's repeated wrongdoings when it comes to our country's electoral process. ACORN, and its like-minded democratic allies, are a malignancy on this country's democracy.

And also, too, because ther... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

And also, too, because there may have been voter fraud in Milwaikee in 2004 doesn't mean this next election in 2010 will be stolen by a shadowy third-party group like ACORN.

Didn't say there had never ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Didn't say there had never been a news story about ACORN's misconduct, Mr Cronanty. What I meant was that ACORN wasn't dripping from every GOPers lips in 2005.

Also, while I may not have been clear, my point is not to defend ACORN's registration fraud, but to suggest an ulterior motive for the paranoia Mr Tea and others of his stripe are promoting in the run-up to Nov 2.

As to 80 - Sweet Jesus, Mr.... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

As to 80 - Sweet Jesus, Mr. Henry, secret ballots are just that - SECRET. I sent in my ballot. On the Board of Election's web-site I can track when they sent me an application for an absentee ballot, and when they received my ballot. BUT - no one [in theory, and I believe it to be correct - if you've got contrary information, then I'd like to hear it, because I think you've got one helluva bombshell on your hands] can determine for whom I voted on the ballot I mailed in. If you believe that the extra 4,500 ballots cast in Milwaukee Wisconsin were "evenly distributed" - well, God Bless you, Mr. Henry. You'll need all the help He can give you.

You have a point there, of ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

You have a point there, of course, Mr Cronanty. I guess what I mean was, were the results way out of historical whack, like, 4500 votes worth? Did they wildly contradict the exit polling?

Or is it possible that, in Milwaukee in 2004, the voter rolls were so screwed up that some number of voters thought they were registered and were allowed to vote without actually being registered? Or is there some other explanation besides fraud? Because, after all, the task force found "no evidence of a pattern of conspiracy to commit fraud."

So, if the task force found no evidence of a conspiracy to commit fraud, why do you seem so sure that fraud is the only explanation?

Well, Mr. Henry, maybe Mr. ... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Well, Mr. Henry, maybe Mr. Tea is late to the party. Anyone, with any experience in the election process, knows that there has been voter fraud for years - in my life time, the Kennedy/Nixon election is the first of which I am aware. From the "voting booths" in which you would manipulate the little levers and then cast your ballot by throwing the large lever, to today, voter fraud has existed. I'm stunned at your attitude that it's okay. It stinks, and it threatens to invalidate the very core of our democracy.
I don't think that I, and my wife and sons, should be able to vote by mail. But, it is solicited that way, so I, and my family, vote that way. I think that, unless you are physically unable, you should get off your lazy ass and register, with a legitimate, state-issued ID. Then, unless you are physically unable, you should drag your dead ass off the couch, shut off the TV, and go to your assigned precinct with the aforesaid state-issued ID and vote. If you can't muster the will to do those basic steps, then don't vote, because you're stupid and too lazy for this republic to rely on your vote.

85-How am I sure that "...f... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

85-How am I sure that "...fraud is the only explanation?" Let's see, 4,500 more votes than registered voters. What can that be? Let's see. Yeah, 4,500 voters thought they were registered and cast ballots, but they really weren't. And, in one of the most "progressive" cities in Wisconsin. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Mr. Henry, I can't sit here and prove to you that gravity is keeping my fat ass in my chair. But I bet you believe that's the case.

No no no, Mr Cronanty, I di... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

No no no, Mr Cronanty, I didn't mean to suggest fraud is OK.

It's also not OK to start a campaign to preemptively delegitimize an election with no more evidence than the kind of crap "True the Vote" is spewing. Have you SEEN their "hard-hitting" video? It's totally fact-free, but with plenty of ominous music and scaaary graphics.

And Jay Tea and others on the Net act as if these guys are preaching Gospel. I'm telling you they have their reasons. Look at how worked up poor Mr 914 is by their propaganda.

It's late and I'll leave yo... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

It's late and I'll leave you with this. I can't answer for others. I can only answer for myself. I've been there before elections and on election night, Mr. Henry. Maybe it's because I work in a HEAVILY democratic county, but the bullshit, much of it legal bullshit, that goes on in our elections is a disgrace. Mr. Henry, and again maybe it's because I work in a heavily democratic county, the bullshit goes one-way. In my estimation - take it for what's it worth - it would take 30 rural counties all going the same way - which they don't in my state - to make up for the crap that could on here - and no, I don't know all that happens here [and just for the record, while our Board of Elections is HEAVILY D, I totally trust what the staff/employees of the Board do with what they have to do it with - they are GOOD PEOPLE, unknown exceptions are, of course, understood]. The Boards of Election in this state, and every other state that I know of, are simply not equipped for a coordinated, well-thought-out scheme of voter fraud - which ACORN and its allies are seemingly willing and able to carry out. And, there are too many D outfits, such as the ACLU and the legal arms of the various unions and D affiliated special interests, which are willing to legally draw out court cases, to uncover what is going on.
As sad as it seems, I rely on the incompetence of the Ds in scamming the system in a large scale when I go to sleep at night - which I'm going to do right now. Night all.

Well, I'm back - just to cl... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Well, I'm back - just to clarify. The Board itself is scrupuiously bi-partisan. I believe that the Board tries mightily to make sure that the staff is bi-partisan. That being said, I'm quite sure there are more D employees than Rs - but in this county that is to be expected. And, all of this understood, the Board, and its employees, to the best of my knowledge, try like hell to pull off an honest election. I would be shocked [no sarcasm] if I were to find out that anyone of them did something unethical, illegal, etc. They are to be commended. As to the Ds' allies, such as ACORN and its offshoots, they are a cancer on our democracy.

Make that "scrupulously". ... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Make that "scrupulously". It's late.

Good morning, Mr Cronanty.<... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Good morning, Mr Cronanty.

Re # 87:

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that fraud is not the only explanation for the Milwaukee 2004 situation?

If Milwaukee has, say, 90 precincts, and each precinct averaged 50 more votes than voters, perhaps that's why no pattern was discerned. Again, secret ballots being sacrosanct, were the results wildly different than the exit polling? Did any one precinct report a 99.9% vote for this or that candidate or party?

And, again, considering the miniscule number of actual fraudulent votes apparently proven to be cast, compared to the huge number of allegations of registration fraud, don't you smell the smoke from the Reichstag Fire when certain rabblerousers try to cast doubt on election results? Especially before the fact?

Bruce:Knock off th... (Below threshold)

Bruce:

Knock off the Godwining. No one's biting.

Secondly, what do you think the odds are that the "extra" ballots are balanced? That both sides would pull the exact same stunt, in precisely the same percentage?

By your own admission, the Republican trend is to drive DOWN the vote total, while the Democrats drive it up. So "extra" votes are the Democrats' MO. (Florida 2000 would be an exception, but there it was a targeted voter suppression -- the memo describing how to disqualify military ballots. That seems to be a theme running again this year.)

J.

"It's also not OK to sta... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"It's also not OK to start a campaign to preemptively delegitimize an election with no more evidence than the kind of crap "True the Vote" is spewing."

That those accusations are getting traction, and there's more and more evidence of the problem bubbling up in various venues means that the attempts to downplay it are meeting with little success. The internet's proving to be a valuable asset - it's showing that what's claimed by those who would discount voter fraud is false, that there IS a problem with it. One singular occurance could be a mistake. Two could be a coincidence. Three? It stretches coincidence.

3000 bogus registrations here, 5000 there, 6000 somewhere else? You've got to be blind to think there's no problem, that there's no coordination.

How many bogus registrations does it take before it looks like someone's trying to stack the deck?

Funny how in 2000 there were loads of lawyers just waiting to go to Florida. And shall we talk about the absentee ballots that were disqualified?

Incessant claims by Vice President Al Gore and his spokesmen that they want every vote to count is belied by everything the Gore camp has done in Florida. If the Democrats really wanted every vote to count, then they would have started a manual recount all over the state, not just in heavily Democratic areas. If Gore wanted every vote to count, then why did one of his lawyers send instructions to other lawyers for the Democrats, throughout the state, on how to challenge absentee ballots from military personnel overseas?

Some countries where these military personnel are stationed do not follow U.S. postmarking practices, so this technicality could be used to disqualify military absentee ballots, which were known to be heavily for George W. Bush. According to the Associated Press, more than 1,400 overseas absentee ballots were thrown out Nov. 17, and one Florida county rejected 117 of its 147 overseas ballots.

If Gore and his people wanted every vote to count, then what were they doing contacting Republican members of the Electoral College and trying to get them to switch their vote to Gore, even though these electors' constituencies voted for Bush? The quiet intelligence-gathering by the Gore camp on these electors' backgrounds, reported in the Nov. 16 Wall Street Journal, suggests implicit blackmail to force electors to betray their trust in order to avoid having their personal embarrassments made public, as the Clinton/Gore administration has done with others.
Or the recounts in close elections that, after several rounds, ends up finding just ENOUGH ballots to put the DEMOCRATIC candidate over the top - at which point they stop counting?

Having shuffled paperwork a lot in the Reserves, I know how hard it is to keep even a relatively small database of a thousand people or so current - and that's with regulations mandating that the members keep the roster up to date on their phone numbers and addresses. (Insurance and dependents was a flippin' nightmare to keep up, and we won't talk about shot records...)

But the first step is to admit there's a problem. Denying there is, or blaming others for even mentioning it doesn't do either side one bit of good.

Mr Tea, it's just an analog... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Mr Tea, it's just an analogy - don't get your feelings hurt. And I didn't question whether there was fraud on both sides. I'm suggesting that fraud may not be the only explanation for the situation in Milwaukee. Why do you insist on answering arguments I didn't make?

Mr Lawson, if you know how difficult it is to keep a database current, maybe you can understand that there may be some grounds for my contention that it's just possible that the Milwaukee 2004 situation could be at least partially blamed on something other than fraud.

By the way, Mr Lawson, I agree that the Gore campaign should have demanded a statewide recount in FL in 2000. They may not have won, but the public would have more faith in the electoral process (and the SCOTUS) than they do now. And I think it's unfortunate that anyone, then or now, attempt to foment unrest by questioning, preemptively, an election in this country. What are we, Zimbabwe?

No, Mr. Henry, I don't beli... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

No, Mr. Henry, I don't believe that the 4,500 extra votes were due to happenstance. Maybe 10, 20, even a hundred. But 4,500? Nope. And don't forget "Smokes for Votes"

"WISN 12 News caught Democratic campaign volunteers giving homeless men packets of cigarettes after transporting them to City Hall to vote in the presidential election last November. Milstein had told WISN 12 News that she was working with the volunteers.

Prosecutors say they still cannot identify the campaign workers who helped Connie Milstein and could not prove that Milstein violated state law. So instead of criminal charges, they issued a $5,000 civil forfeiture.

Milstein's lawyer said she will pay the fine.

Wisconsin's Republican Party called the fine a slap on the wrist Friday, saying the incident involving Milstein is only one of the more than 500 cases of voter fraud reported to the Republican Party."

While not a criminal conviction, it is a civil forfeiture. Note that the Prosecutor couldn't "prove" the charges so as to obtain a criminal conviction.

Also, Mr Lawson, others hav... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Also, Mr Lawson, others have done more than "even mentioning it." They have harped on it incessantly for a reason - to cast doubt on the legitimacy of Obama's presidency. And they're harping on it incessantly now, I suspect, because they're not so sure this next election is gonna be the tidal wave they wanted. If it is, they'll back off on the accusations, I'll bet. If it isn't, they'll ramp them up - and that could have dire consequences.

Oh, and it's the Ds who who... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Oh, and it's the Ds who who got a "criminal conviction" for supressing the vote in Wisconsin:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182272,00.html
MILWAUKEE -- Witness testimony, cell phone records and other evidence show that five Democratic campaign workers punctured tires on vehicles Republicans intended to use to get out the vote on Election Day 2004, a prosecutor told jurors in closing arguments Thursday.

The son of a congresswoman and the son of a former Milwaukee mayor are among those accused of the vandalism near a Bush-Cheney campaign office. Jurors deliberated for about two hours Thursday afternoon before breaking for the day.

Milwaukee County District Attorney David Feiss told jurors that testimony from several national campaign workers brought to Milwaukee indicated the defendants acted together to cause the damage and that the workers overheard the defendants talking about the vandalism.

"If the defendants had not gone back and bragged to their co-workers, they might have gotten away with it," Feiss said.


Oh, and it's the Ds who who... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Oh, and it's the Ds who who got a "criminal conviction" for supressing the vote in Wisconsin:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193250,00.html
MILWAUKEE -- A U.S. lawmaker's son and three Democratic campaign workers were sentenced Wednesday to four to six months in jail for slashing tires outside a Bush-Cheney campaign office on Election Day 2004.

The men pleaded no contest in January to misdemeanor property damage. A fifth worker was found not guilty.

"This case had to be a public example of what can happen when you interfere with voters' rights," said Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Michael Brennan, who rejected prosecutors' recommendation of probation for the four men.

The Wisconsin state Republican Party had rented more than 100 vehicles to give rides to voters and poll monitors on Nov. 2, 2004. The cars were parked outside a Republican campaign office when the tires were punctured. The vandalism left the drivers scrambling for new vehicles.

Among those sentenced Wednesday were Sowande A. Omokunde, the son of Democratic lawmaker Gwen Moore, and Michael Pratt, the son of former acting Milwaukee Mayor Marvin Pratt.

epador says that if our vot... (Below threshold)

epador says that if our votes are being neutralized, We, The People, have no alternatives ....

Please read the Declaration of Independence, dear epador -- and then join with the rest of We, The People, as we refresh The Tree of Liberty.

So the prosecutor couldn't ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

So the prosecutor couldn't prove the charges in the "Smokes for Votes" scandal, even though this Milstein woman was caught by the local TeeVee guys. And that's OK, because "voter fraud is difficult to prove."

But apparently it's SHOCKING that prosecutors in the NBPP case settled for civil penalties, even though voter intimidation charges, in the absence of a complaining victim, are also "difficult to prove."

See comment # 100, Messrs T... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

See comment # 100, Messrs Tea, Cronanty and Lawson?

I rest my case.

Yeah Bruce. That Thomas Jef... (Below threshold)

Yeah Bruce. That Thomas Jefferson -- what a subversive!

I didn't say it was OK for ... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

I didn't say it was OK for the Prosecutor to reduce the charges to a civil penalty, Mr. Henry. In fact, the Rs were pretty upset at the D prosecutor.
And as to the NBPP case, the outrageous act of the Obama/Holder DOJ was dismissing the case AFTER obtaining a default judgment - they dismissed a case they had already won. No need for proof.

Way to miss the point, Mr M... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Way to miss the point, Mr McGehee.

Is it OK to (implicitly) call for violence if you lose an election, as long as you quote Jefferson while doing so?

Hey Kev, did you know that ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Hey Kev, did you know that that Jefferson quote was often used by the Weather Underground and other Sixties radicals to justify their actions?

What, did you think the Tea Party suddenly discovered it?

If that election is lost th... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

If that election is lost through massive fraud (which I realize you won't ever believe could be the case, Bruce...) what's the remedy?

Up above, it was suggested that ALL voter registration rolls be purged, and reaccomplished. It'd be a big mess - but with sufficient evidence of a corrupt database it might be appropriate to do so. Of course the Democrats screaming like bloody banshees about voter disenfranchisment - but in all honesty I'm giving such shrieking much less credence that I'd have done twenty years back. There's just too much evidence of fraud in the other direction.

Violence should be a last resort - when there's no other way to remedy the problem. And we're quite a ways off from that.

I think we can agree, though, that voter fraud should NEVER be tolerated, winked at, or tacitly condoned no matter which party or organization does it - right? And ANY allegations should be investigated and prosecuted vigorously?

Of course the Democrats (wo... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Of course the Democrats (would be) screaming

Sigh. The caffine has not yet reached my fingers...

Sure, I agree with that las... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Sure, I agree with that last point, Mr Lawson. And I never meant to imply that voter fraud, whether of the registration species or some other, should be "winked at." Although I can see where you might get the impression that I did.

What smells funny to me is the drumbeat by Mr Tea and others on the Internet to cast doubt on Obama's legitimacy. And, perhaps, the legitimacy of the results of this next election if it doesn't result in a tsunami.

You can see by the incipient clamor here that such rabblerousing might be dangerous.

But wait - it gets better.<... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

But wait - it gets better.

Pajamas Media サ Voter Fraud Watch: Allegations of Poll Worker Misconduct in Harris County, Texas
Voter Fraud Watch: Allegations of Poll Worker Misconduct in Harris County, Texas

Day 2, I get here, I get set up here where all those people are where we have our little space, I'm fixing to get my push cards, 3 voters came out and said they were turned away, that all the polls were down. They were told they could come back later. I said, "Oh really." Then Sylvia Garcia's team asked her partner to put on a T-shirt and go in to find out what is going on. I then said if you are not going, let me borrow a T-shirt so I can go in and find out what is going on. And I acted like I was a voter off the street, I told the guys I walked up to the Information Desk inside Ripley House and asked are the polls down. They both looked at each other and asked are the polls down? I said that's okay, "I'll go find out for myself. I see this line out the door of the voting polls. I am sitting out here and was told the polls were down and there are 2 gentlemen outside the door waiting to go in." I said they just told me the polls were down, and he said "No ma'am they are working. They are working slow but they are working." I told the people who were handing out brochures that the polls are working. I also asked everyone out there, "Where did all those people come from who were standing in line waiting to vote, they didn't come through these doors?" So I walked all the way around the building and I see a charter bus. There was a lady with 2 gentlemen. The lady was wearing a Jessica Farrar T-shirt, standing beyond the 100 foot boundary limits. So I sat myself down and I sat there. After I turned my back to them with my Herrera T-shirt, one of the guys got in the bus and moved it. The lady still stood there, I began to tell her "Ma'am, you need to pick up your stuff and move within the boundaries." She said "Oh, I'm so sorry." She sits behind me and she tells me that she was Jessica Farrar's mother. I said "Hi, I'm Debbie Flores, I'm Fernando Herrera's cousin" and I left. I just started passing out brochures and stuff. (I have photographs of this).
It's so nice to have someone taking voters to the polls in busses, isn't it? I'm sure those were all legal voters, too.

If the number of ballots cast exceeds the number of registered voters, I'd say there's something going on in that precinct.

And by "dangerous" I mean n... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

And by "dangerous" I mean not only that it might result in random acts of violence, but that it might poison the political atmosphere for 2012, 2014, and beyond. We could find ourselves the new Ukraine, where election results are considered fraudulent by the losing side in every election, thus contributing to instability and our decline as a nation.

That's why such agitprop worries me.

If Kevin McGehee has any do... (Below threshold)

If Kevin McGehee has any doubt that Thomas Jefferson and every other Founding Father was a radical subversive, Kevin McGehee aught read a little American History!

I went to early voting this... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

I went to early voting this past Saturday, Mr Lawson. There was a big ol' charter bus parked outside with Tea Party slogans and American flags all over it. Didn't make me crazy.

This site will give you a s... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

This site will give you a sampling of recent voter fraud by ACORN: http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html
ACORN, of course, is/was closely allied with the SEIU, one of the most anti-everything-that-is-good-about-this-country organizations in existence. Who knows what they pull at election time.
Please note that last year the Ds tried to do away with all standards for voting. When you read this, remember that there are several states where illegal aliens can obtain driver's licenses:
"But Acorn's registration tricks may soon be unnecessary. Congressional Democrats are backing a bill to mandate a nationwide data base to automatically register driver's license holders or recipients of government benefits.

This "would create an engraved invitation for voter fraud," says Hans von Spakovsky, a former Federal Election Commission member, who points out that these lists are filled with felons and noncitizens who are ineligible to vote. Ironically, in light of its troubles with the law, Acorn was selected in March to assist the U.S. Census in reaching out to minority communities and recruiting census enumerators for the count next year."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124182750646102435.html

<a href="http://ne... (Below threshold)
JLawson:
BBC News | AMERICAS | President Bush sworn in

Police in Washington said they had arrested a number of protesters demonstrating against Mr Bush's inauguration.

But the thousands of demonstrators failed to interrupt the swearing in ceremony.

Protestors carried banners reading "Hail to the thief", "Bush a loser", "Supreme Injustice", "Selected, not elected", and one showing a picture of the White House and the words "Sold Again."
Bruce - the Florida 2000 election stunk to high heaven of fraud, but no violence came of it. We trusted the law, we trusted the system. We trusted that in the end an honest accounting would be held of the votes.

But it became clear really fast (and with the yelling of Dems about 'Selected not elected' and their efforts to cast doubt on the legitimacy of Bush's presidency duringf his tenure - with even Hillary getting in on the act) that the only acceptable outcome to the Democratic machine is where the Democrat wins in any given election.

So any and all manuvering to get that outcome is seen as pefectly acceptable to some in that heirarchy.

As it is, over the last decade the trust that the rules are being abided by has badly eroded, and with the internet there's no way to say that voter fraud doesn't happen simply because your local news agencies don't report it.

And when the preponderance of fraud runs towards the Ds... well. For some reason people just aren't as trusting as they used to be.

When there's no trust that an election will be open and above board, and all people participating in that election are acting honestly, then there's severe problems that must be fixed.

I'm glad you agree that fraud is wrong - I disagree with you that bringing fraud to light is an attempt to cover failure. Excused or ignored fraud is simply an invitation to try again on a larger scale - and what might be tolerable at the .001-.01% percent level isn't tolerable at all at 1%.

Mentioning that there's a problem, and the limits of tolerance are being reached isn't rabblerousing - it's simply acknowledging a condition that exists and must be taken care of in some way or another.

If you consider May 2009 "r... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

If you consider May 2009 "recent," I guess.

ACORN is defunct. Gone. Yet certain internet rabblerousers continue to do what they do in an effort to perpetuate the myth that Obama's legitimacy is in question. And to cast doubt on the results of this next election.

That's my point. Not that ACORN didn't engage in registration fraud, or that such fraud should be winked at. And none of my correspondents on this thread - Mr Cronanty, Mr Tea, or Mr Lawson (well, Mr Lawson a little bit) have addressed it.

Well, you did, again, Mr La... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Well, you did, again, Mr Lawson, while I was typing.

Just you wait. After the el... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Just you wait. After the election there'll be story after story here on how the Coons campaign engaged in voter fraud, but any race that Republicans win will be considered sacrosanct.

ACORN's gone? Or simply 'b... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

ACORN's gone? Or simply 'buried' so it can't be seen in a host of other names it's not associated with.

Rexall drug stores are pretty much history, Bruce - but there's still lots of chains providing the same things. ACORN may be gone - but that doesn't mean there's not plenty of people doing the same sort of crap and handwaving of the 'Nothing to see! It's history, nobody would do anything like that again!' sort is not believable.

You keep trying to play it all down, Bruce, and I really don't see why you would outside of partisan ideology.

So, ACORN is defunct?... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

So, ACORN is defunct?
By MICHAEL TARM

Associated Press Writer

CHICAGO --
Affiliates of the once mighty liberal activist group ACORN are remaking themselves in a desperate bid to ditch the tarnished name of their parent organization and restore federal grants and other revenue streams that ran dry in the wake of a video scandal.

The letters A, C, O, R and N are coming off office doors from New York to California. Business cards are being reprinted. New signs with new names are popping up in front of offices.

The breakaways are trying to shed the scandal that emerged six months ago when videos showed some ACORN workers giving tax tips to conservative activists posing as a pimp and prostitute. But while their names are different, most groups have kept the same offices and staff.

"I went to early voting ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"I went to early voting this past Saturday, Mr Lawson. There was a big ol' charter bus parked outside with Tea Party slogans and American flags all over it. Didn't make me crazy."

Of course not - you're already there. :)

Seriously, were you turned away because 'the machines weren't working'? Or told that you had to vote a particular way at that polling location? Might want to read that whole article...

Then there's this...

Voter reports problem with ballot machine | machine, screen, voter - Local - Sun Journal

A Craven County voter says he had a near miss at the polls on Thursday when an electronic voting machine completed his straight-party ticket for the opposite of what he intended.

Sam Laughinghouse of New Bern said he pushed the button to vote Republican in all races, but the voting machine screen displayed a ballot with all Democrats checked. He cleared the screen and tried again with the same result, he said. Then he asked for and received help from election staff.

"They pushed it twice and the same thing happened," Laughinghouse said. "That was four times in a row. The fifth time they pushed it and the Republicans came up and I voted."

M. Ray Wood, Craven County Board of elections chairman, issued a written statement saying that the elections board is aware of isolated issues and that in each case the voter was able to cast his or her ballot as desired.
And then this...
Voters Suspicious Of Fraud At Ballot Box - Las Vegas News Story - KVVU Las Vegas

LAS VEGAS -- Some voters in Boulder City said they are concerned about fraud at the electronic ballot box.

Voter Joyce Ferrara said when they went to vote for Republican Sharron Angle, her Democratic opponent, Sen. Harry Reid's name was already checked.

Ferrara said she wasn't alone in her voting experience. She said her husband and several others voting at the same time all had the same thing happen.

"Something's not right," Ferrara said. "One person that's a fluke. Two, that's strange. But several within a five minute period of time -- that's wrong."

Clark County Registrar of Voters Larry Lomax said there is no voter fraud, although the issues do come up because the screens are sensitive.

He said if voters choose English (instead of Spanish) for their language of choice, the ballot pops up with Angle selected.

"Especially in a community with elderly citizens (they have) difficulty in (casting their) ballot," Lomax said. "Team leaders said there were complaints (and the) race filled in."

Lomax said voters need to have faith in the system.
Faith? Hard to have faith when they're filling things in for you - and it even seems to be language dependent who you get to vote for. This is wrong, no matter who you're going to be voting for.

Perhaps I missed it, but wh... (Below threshold)
Hank:

Perhaps I missed it, but who is trying to "perpetuate the myth that Obama's legitimacy is in question?

I hope you're not talking about the birther fringe.

As for: "After the election there'll be story after story here on how the Coons campaign engaged in voter fraud, but any race that Republicans win will be considered sacrosanct."

Well, if Coons win is extremely close, then Al Franken and Christine Gregoire come to mind. And generally speaking, voter fraud always benefits democrats.

Should I search the Left Bl... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Should I search the Left Blogosphere for examples of GOP voter suppression, gentlemen?

I've said repeatedly that I don't condone voter fraud of any stripe. That miscreants should be prosecuted, despite Mr Cronanty's insistence that obtaining a conviction is so difficult that it almost never happens, thus proving his point, or something.

what I object to is the drumbeat. You guys know what I mean, even though Mr Lawson is the only one who has said so.

Hank, have you never seen p... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Hank, have you never seen posts by Wizbang commenters less enlightened than yourself, claiming that Obama didn't win, that the 2008 election was stolen by ACORN and SEIU "thugs?" I've seen that kind of stuff on other sites, as well.

Never mind that Obama won by ten million votes - those were provided by ACORN!

I'm telling you that if these propaganda pushers keep this crap up, they're gonna do more damage to democracy than ACORN or its heirs could ever do.

Mr. Henry, the only reason ... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Mr. Henry, the only reason there's a "drumbeat" is because the Ds engage in voter fraud so often. Go back up to the top of the post and read Mr. Tea's original post and links. If fraudulent voter registration is as innocuous as you imply, why do D allies do it again, and again, and again - you know, sort of like a drumbeat.

If Kevin McGehe... (Below threshold)
If Kevin McGehee has any doubt that Thomas Jefferson and every other Founding Father was a radical subversive, Kevin McGehee aught read a little American History!
Indeed, King George III wanted to hang him and everyone like him.

A POV Bruce Henry appears to share.

Check out Drudge, Bruce - t... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Check out Drudge, Bruce - those two stories were on it this morning. Perhaps you can find some others where Repubs are doing things? Oh, wait - here's one...

Behold the violence inherent in the system!

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/10/26/kentucky.debate.scuffle/index.html

Again - just plain wrong no matter what side you're on. But to be honest - the person who was attacked is a pro agitator w/Greenpeace - it wouldn't surprise me if this was the reaction wanted. You push, and you push, and you push as hard as you can - and then play the innocent victim when there's a reaction.

"If fraudulent voter regist... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"If fraudulent voter registration is as innocuous as you imply, why do D allies do it again, and again, and again - you know, sort of like a drumbeat."

zing!

I've always wondered that too. We've been seeing example after example of "voter registration" fraud for years, and the Dems keep saying 'oh, it's no big deal. It's just 'registration' fraud, not actual voting fraud.'

If it's not a big deal, then why do they keep doing it?
The answer is of course, it IS big deal because it DOES lead to actual voting fraud. But if they keep saying 'no big deal' and there are no concequences, eventually most people come to believe it.

Now we find that in Nevada ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Now we find that in Nevada SEIU members are servicing voter machines which are mysteriously coming up with votes marked for Reid when people are voting republican.

Coincidence? Nah I doubt it.

BTW Bruce HenryIt ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW Bruce Henry

It wouldnt have taken 10 million votes for McCain to have won (or Obama to lose).

Only about a million distributed in the right states would have done the trick for the electoral college.

I believe Obama would have definitely won without any voter abuse. I also think that dems using every dirty trick in the book this year to try to hold onto as much power as they can.




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