The back window was shattered (do a freeze-frame at 22 sec.) It looks like it suffered a couple of rock hits, one on the driver's side and one on the passenger's side.

Nothing more than a set-up for the sake of a propaganda video. Golda was right, and callous isn't a strong enough word to cover this behavior.

The PLO's "street theater" propaganda was taken to incredible heights during the last years of Arafat's life and, no surprise, the liberal media was all too eager to assist in the charades.

It continues today but the public is getting just a little wiser to the over-played ruse.

3 kids, 5 photographers, and not one of the photographers saw the kids as anything but expendable.

You know, iof the Palestinians ever DID get what they ostenibly wanted, inside of a decade it'd be a friggin' desert again.

Whenever you have five cameras taking picturers it's a publicity/propoganda gimmick.

This stunt has been performed buy movie stunt folks who hand vault over a moving car, ususally clearing it completely. The driver, in this case, stopped suddenly and the actor dropped onto the hood. The news presenter (BBC?) doesn't question the validity of the clip.

Typical!

Good shot! I give him 50 points. Notice the little puke is wearing a head scarf. The next generation of scum is on the way.

Good thing it wasn't me behind the wheel, I would have hit the little buggers on purpose, then backed over them again just for shits and giggles!!

Palestinians. Snort.

Nothing but muslim gypsies squatters who never had a country in the first place that no muslim country will take in, but like to use as a political football against Israel.

With this group, there will never be peace in the middle east, ever.

Pure Alinski. "The most unethical use of any means is the non use of any means". By that reasoning the most ethical thing the palis can do is to use their children as cannon fodder, placing them in situations that will get them killed. They score on two fronts: 1) the actual act that gets the kids killed and 2) the video of these "innocent" children being martyred for the cause.

My nutshell: Settlers just off the plane from Russia and Brooklyn grabbing farmland and evicting Arab families who have lived there for hundreds of years.

We should cut off all aid to Israel until they come up with a plan to stay within borders and stop stealing land.

Don't forget this quote from Netanyahu:

"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,"

http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-netanyahu-says-9-11-terror-attacks-good-for-israel-1.244044

Gen. Petraeus was right, Israel is a strategic liability to the USA. America first.

I fully expected to read that the kid had been fitted with an explosive vest and was pushed out, fell and landed right on his galoob.

The most unsettling thing is the news readers story line on the show. It could have been written by the PLO. Instead of actually looking at the tape and reporting on what is glaringly obvious the press sticks it's head up it's a$$ and follows the PLO line. Disgusting behavior for a "news" organization. mpw

Galoob,
Historically, most palestinian arabs (it should be noted that until the partition there was no recognized ethnicity of 'palestinian') were renters and the property was owned by wealthier arabs. Those wealthy land owners sold their property after the partition to Jewish settlers at highly inflated prices and evicted their arab renters in order to do so.

The liberal lie that Israelis have stolen land from the palis is just that: a lie. Palestinians were evicted from their homes by other arabs and other arab nations refuse to allow them to immigrate forcing them into refugee camps.

Speaking of lies your quote of Netanyahu is a gross manipulation. Click the link and read the whole quote and he said that the event of 911 "swung American public opinion in our favor". Your truncation of the quote is designed to create a false impression and is yet another dishonesty in your argument.

Your arguments are all dishonest and distortions of truth. I should expect nothing more from a lib.

Just gave you a "thumbs-up," Jim.

You expect, "nothing more from a lib" and I expect nothing less. Between the two of us we've covered the spread.

UOG

"Settlers"

I call B.S. on galoot or whatever his name is.

It IS Israels land. Settlers nothing. The word is CITIZENS.

Galib-

"My nutshell: Settlers just off the plane from Russia and Brooklyn grabbing farmland and evicting Arab families who have lived there for hundreds of years.

We should cut off all aid to Israel until they come up with a plan to stay within borders and stop stealing land."

Pass the grass please.

Galoob,

Even honest arabs admit that the land wasn't stolen and that many arabs abandoned their property willingly at the orders of other arab nations:

The Secretary of the Arab League Office in London, Edward Atiyah, wrote in his book, The Arabs: "This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boastings of an unrealistic Arabic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re­enter and retake possession of their country."

In 1949, Israel offered to allow families that had been separated during the war to return, to release refugee accounts frozen in Israeli banks (eventually released in 1953), to pay compensation for abandoned lands and to repatriate 100,000 refugees.

The Arabs rejected all the Israeli compromises. They were unwilling to take any action that might be construed as recognition of Israel. They made repatriation a precondition for negotiations, something Israel rejected. The result was the confinement of the refugees in camps.

So the poor were sold out by the wealthy and the middle class abandoned their property for the cause of jihad. They were offered compensation but refused because that might mean recognizing Israel.

I have no sympathy for the murderous bastards.

jim m, I see you're bought the Israeli propaganda line completely. Not surprising, because that's the only point of view on U.S. mainstream media.

My first principle is, America first. If there ever was an "entangling alliance" in the sense that Jefferson, Washington and the Adamses meant it, it is the alliance with Israel. Unfortunately, Israel has bamboozled American fundamentalists into joining with them in the hope of Armageddon, the Rapture and the return of Jesus.

Arabs were the majority in the Ottoman imperial provinces comprising the area and the British mandate of Palestine for hundreds of years. They were the majority in the cities of Haifa and Jerusalem.

Israeli historians like Benny Morris have described the ethnic cleansing of Arab territory, like the massacre at Deir Yassin, to push Arabs off their land in 1948.

Since 1967, the Israelis have pushed Arabs out of their land in many ways, in including eminent domain, the separation walls, closed checkpoints and "military zones."

If it's all bought from the Arabs, how do you explain stories like this, easily found through Google:

Seventeen families in the Jordan Valley area are at imminent risk of forced eviction after being issued with eviction orders last week.

"These evictions orders are just one example of Palestinians' right to adequate housing being violated - the Israeli authorities must immediately cancel all eviction and demolition orders," said Philip Luther,Amnesty International's Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa.

"Palestinians living under Israeli occupation face such tight restrictions on what they can build that they are in an impossible situation. Whatever choice they make, they face homelessness."

On 24 June, Israeli military officials, accompanied by soldiers, served eviction orders to two families living in the village of 'Ein al-Hilwe.

On 27 June, military authorities delivered eviction orders for 15 more families in the nearby area of al-Farisiya. In both cases, residents were told they had 24 hours to leave the area. In total, 83 people face forced eviction in the area.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/israel-steps-forced-evictions-west-bank-palestinians-2010-07-01

Why do the Israelis have to grab land at the Jordan valley, on the border with Jordan and miles from the 1967 border of Israel? The Israelis want to grab the whole West Bank and kill the Arabs, kick them out of the territory or put them in walled concentration camps.

The Israeli connection is a large part of why the USA is hated in the Middle East. The Israeli policies of land grabbing whip up hatred which is reflected on us. Gen. Petraeus and many others have noted this.

One of the main reasons for the Iraq war was to eliminate an enemy of Israel. American troops died and we spent billions to take out Saddam even though he was no threat to the USA. Now, are we going to go it again with Iran?

America first.

How can you steal whats yours?

Apparently galoof knows how.

In 1936 the Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition (stealing) were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."

In 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."

So the Israelis bought land before the war of independence at highly inflated prices. When the war came remaining landowners fled at the orders of the other arab nations. Today they claim that Israel stole their land. Today historically ignorant libs who cannot be bothered to research history believe the lies the arabs tell.

1936-1938-1944.

I gave you an example of 2010. I am talking about land grabbing outside the 1967 borders in the West Bank, not 1948 UN mandate Israel or pre-1967 borders Israel.

I agree that the pre-1967 borders are a sustainable reality, but land grabbing in the Jordan Valley now is a problem for the USA.

If the Israelis want to do that, the USA should cut off aid and tell them they're on their own.

galoob is really racking up the points this morning.

As for the "Palestinians" - losers and "perpetual victims".

Funny how a contemporary account by Dana Adams Schmidt, "200 Arabs Killed, Stronghold Taken," New York Times, (April 10, 1948) included no mention of the "massacre" at Deir Yassin. Mainly because none occurred and this is one more lie from the left.

Yes, civilians were killed there, but as they have done so for years, the arabs hid with the civilians and many of the deaths were caused after arabs first feigned surrender then opened fire on the Israelis catching civilians in the crossfire.

Yes the Israel connection is why the US is hated in the middle east. I suppose that you would have argued the same with regard to Hitler too. "Don't want to defend the Jews, we might piss off the nazis."

And I'm sorry but amnesty international long ago gave up any credibility on human rights as they protest very vigorously against democratic nations and turn a deaf ear to violations in more violent regimes.

You refer to the wall as a method used to dispossess arabs of their land. This is not true. It is a method o suppress terrorism and in that aim it has been successful. In fact liberals have actually admitted that they are disappointed that it has been successful in suppressing terrorism because they see terrorism as advancing the liberal narrative.

" gave you an example of 2010. I am talking about land grabbing outside the 1967 borders in the West Bank, not 1948 UN mandate Israel or pre-1967 borders Israel."

Dont look at history gaboob, it may repeat itself. Winners grin, losers weep. Just ask algore.

Galoob,

This is about history. Everything the palis complain about is based in a complaint that they say is founded in the history of the founding of Israel. If you ignore the basis for their complaints in history then you are blindly accepting their lies as true and you are giving them credit for things that either never happened or are actually opposite of what they claim.

If you ignore this history you then accept the current narrative as completely true. The current narrative is built off of this history. If you ignore it you are guilty of allying yourself with a people who are not only bent on destroying Israel but all Jews as well. You ally yourself with people who believe that lying is not just a useful strategy but an obligation from allah to win the war against the infidel. You are choosing to ally yourself with the enemies of America.

jim m: "If you ignore the basis for their complaints in history then you are blindly accepting their lies as true and you are giving them credit for things that either never happened or are actually opposite of what they claim."

Jim, you're wasting your time.

galoob knows the truth perfectly well, just as the Soviet commissars knew the truth very well.

They simply use lies as weapons.

galoob wants Israel "gone".

galoob want the US diminished.

galoob and his pals love Castro and Chavez and any other leftist totalitarian thugs they can get their little arms around.

galoob and his pals have no principles. All they have are the lies and rhetorical weapons du jour. For them, history always starts this morning. What we said yesterday is irrelevant to what we say today.

There's a reason why there are so many common jokes about leftists airbrushing history, reading trotskyites out of the party, etc.

They want power. And any means justifies the ends.

Period.

galoob is simply the latest wave of useful idiots who hate the west and knows that the only thing standing in the way of total leftist domination is Israel and the US.

galoob doesn't give a rats ass about any palestinian kids or what happens to them.

He/she just hates Israel.

Period.

The deed to the land for Israel, the only tribe of Judah that maintained a revered, holy relationship with God came from God. He told Abraham as far as you can see, this land is yours. Now that is a deed of ownership. The land has belonged to Israel for thousands of years. ww

jim m,

I am most interested in how the Israel-Palestine conflict affects the interests of the United States now. If not for that, and how it affects the wars we are fighting, the excitation of Islamic extremism, and the supply of oil, it would not be important.

You want to re-fight 1948, I do not. Israel as a Jewish state is an established fact. The question is, how much will a relatively small group of religious fanatics and land grabbers in Israel control the USA's relationship with the Arab world going forward? That is my concern and I put America, not Israel, first.

But since you are in denial about the history, here's the most respected Israeli historian, Benny Morris (a committed Zionist, but not afraid of the truth), on the subject:

According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?

"Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.

"The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.

"That can't be chance. It's a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres."

What you are telling me here, as though by the way, is that in Operation Hiram there was a comprehensive and explicit expulsion order. Is that right?

"Yes. One of the revelations in the book is that on October 31, 1948, the commander of the Northern Front, Moshe Carmel, issued an order in writing to his units to expedite the removal of the Arab population. Carmel took this action immediately after a visit by Ben-Gurion to the Northern Command in Nazareth. There is no doubt in my mind that this order originated with Ben-Gurion. Just as the expulsion order for the city of Lod, which was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, was issued immediately after Ben-Gurion visited the headquarters of Operation Dani [July 1948]."

Are you saying that Ben-Gurion was personally responsible for a deliberate and systematic policy of mass expulsion?

"From April 1948, Ben-Gurion is projecting a message of transfer. There is no explicit order of his in writing, there is no orderly comprehensive policy, but there is an atmosphere of [population] transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership understands that this is the idea. The officer corps understands what is required of them. Under Ben-Gurion, a consensus of transfer is created."

Ben-Gurion was a "transferist"?

"Of course. Ben-Gurion was a transferist. He understood that there could be no Jewish state with a large and hostile Arab minority in its midst. There would be no such state. It would not be able to exist."

I don't hear you condemning him.

"Ben-Gurion was right. If he had not done what he did, a state would not have come into being. That has to be clear. It is impossible to evade it. Without the uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state would not have arisen here."

http://www.deiryassin.org/bennymorris.html

Is there any doubt left the Palli's are the #1 A-Holes of the Planet?

"Is there any doubt left the Palli's are the #1 A-Holes of the Planet?"

No. But galoob is a close second.

Folks, folks, folks... you're missing galoob's point.

The alleged "injustices" done to the Palestinian people are so great, they justify sending their children out to get run down by cars.

Alternately, the point galoob could be pointing is that the Palestinians are so subhuman that they can't see the heinous evil of sending their children out to get run down by cars, and we simply can't expect them to act like civilized people -- meaning white people.

Or both -- they're not mutually exclusive.

Sorry my readers didn't pick up on your points, galoob, and hope you don't mind me stepping in to interpret them for the less sophisticated.

J.

I am most interested in how the Israel-Palestine conflict affects the interests of the United States now

>>>> Such a liar. You are only "interested" in it insofar as you think you can use it as a club against Israel.

It's called asymmetric warfare, JT. Look it up.

The Israelis build nukes, jet fighters, tanks and concrete walls.

The Palestinians pop out babies and send them to throw rocks and strap on bomb vests.

I'm sure you're happy with the USA being entangled in that mess and spending billions on Israel. I'm not. I say: America first.

At this point who reads what galoob posts past the first few words? Pointless. Same old silliness. Galoob probably has a picture of Kofi Anan hanging on his bedroom wall, right next to Sotero's.

No, galoob, it's called a "war crime." Look it up -- the use of children in warfare, even "asymmetrical warfare," is outlawed by international conventions. We HANG people for that.

But thanks for acknowledging that the Palestinians are formally at war with Israel. It simplifies matters tremendously.

And thanks for standing up for a people who stand around with cameras while their prepubescent children attempt to commit suicide for the sake of a photo op.

Funny how such poor, oppressed, repressed people can afford at least five fancy cameras, though, isn't it?

J.

No, galoob, it's called a "war crime." Look it up -- the use of children in warfare, even "asymmetrical warfare," is outlawed by international conventions. We HANG people for that.

I'm not justifying children (teenage boys) fighting, but it's a fact caused by the continuing Israeli land grabbing and oppression. One side has immense military power, the other side uses what they can to fight back. That's been a fact throughout history.

But "war crime?" That's a joke coming from you. We hung Japanese for waterboarding after WWII. Bush just admitted ordering it. When will you be calling for him to be hung?

Bombing civilian populations is a war crime. Bombing sewer plants just to cause their destruction, hardship and disease in civilian populations is a war crime, too. Bombing food production facilities is a war crime.

The Israelis did all of this in Gaza.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/disgrace-in-the-hague-1.7739

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/factfindingmission.htm

If the Israelis want to grab all of the land to the Jordan river, they should do it without US $billions and support.

The USA does not have to support Israeli war crimes in their conquest of the land from Jerusalem to the Jordan valley.

al galoobi can't help himself. His hatred for America transfers to Israel, a democratic ally, and his sympathies naturally flow to those who would see Israel and America destroyed and subjugated.

The barbarians behaviors are indefensible galoob. So are your postings.

Israel, a democratic ally,

WTF did Israel ever do for the USA? All I know is that they spied on US through Pollard and then traded top nuclear and cryptographic secrets to the Soviets to get Jews out of the USSR.

Plus other spies like Lawrence Franklin.

Not to mention the USS Liberty.

I like how galoob dismisses the historical facts I give and then raises the issue of a bogus massacre from 1948 to prove his point. Just like the left. History means nothing unless they can bend it to suit their own objectives.

Israel is our best ally in the region. They have provided us significant intelligence from the Middle East. They have sometimes done our dirty work as when they destroyed Saddam Hussein's nuclear facilities.

Oh yeah, I'm quoting Israel's most respected historian, Benny Morris, but you have it all right, jim m.

Israel is our best ally in the region.

Turkey is a member of NATO and hosts our bases, including nukes. Jordan hosts our bases, Oman, Kuwait and Bahrain host US bases.

Israel gave our nuke and cryptographic secrets to the USSR. Israel attacked and destroyed a US ship with the loss of 34 KIA.

They have provided us significant intelligence from the Middle East.

Like what? Warning us of 9/11? Oh no, the Israelis are "benefiting" from that as Netanyahu said.

They have sometimes done our dirty work as when they destroyed Saddam Hussein's nuclear facilities.

Funny you say that, since the USA was supporting Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran at that time.

The Israelis sucked us into war with Iraq, now they're trying to suck us into war with Iran:

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Michael-Scheuer-war-iran/2010/11/06/id/376234

Terror Expert: War With Iran More Likely to Happen
Saturday, 06 Nov 2010 06:28 PM

By Dan Weil, with Kathleen Walter

Results of the midterm elections make a war with Iran more likely, says Michael Scheuer, a counterterrorism expert who spent more than 20 years working for the CIA. But America isn't prepared for such a confrontation, thanks to President Barack Obama.

"On Iran, there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans," he tells Newsmax.TV. "They're very comfortable with the idea that a foreign leader like [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu can take 300 million Americans to war whenever he wants."

In Scheuer's view, "The election was a disaster in terms of increasing the chances of another war that we don't have the resources to fight, and we won't have the will to win."

galoon-

"The Israelis sucked us into war with Iraq, now they're trying to suck us into war with Iran:"

Ha ha ha, priceless. Those damn jooooos.

ok, I say we let Galoob rant and rave all he/she wants BUT WE DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANYTHING HE/SHE SAYS.

IGNORE HIM/HER!

Obviously Galoob is a very lonely sole and is searching for lots of attention.

I think it's cold shoulder time.

What's that saying? Just not worthy of an answer.

Obviously Galoob is a very lonely sole and is searching for lots of attention.

Personally, I think Galube is paid to do this.

hilarious: "I'm sure you're happy with the USA being entangled in that mess and spending billions on Israel. I'm not. I say: America first."

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Wow.

"America first" huh?

Hmmm, what does this remind me of?.......

Oh yes, the very crap that the left was saying in 1939 and 1940 as a way of supporting Uncle Joe Stslin and his little pact with Adolph. Yep all the little lefties in Hollywood and elsewhere were arguing so strenuously for the US to stay out of that darn european conflict.

And then, in a blink of an eye, just as soon as Hitler decided that maybe that pact with Russia wasn't really "all that", he invaded.

And America's lefties/progressives/socialists literally, in a split-second, discarded every "principle" they had been espousing to jump on the "Second Front Now!!" bandwagon.

A turn-about so abrupt it could cause you to wrench your back.

why did the left do that?

why did the left support Stalin?

Why did the left support Kim il Sung (don't believe me? read some old copies of "The Nation"
Why did the left support Ho Chi Minh?

why did the left support Castro?

Why does the left support Chavez?

Why do they lionize Che?

Because all leftists/progressives hate the West. They all hate the US, and they all hate Israel.

galoob..

Our very own Wizbang palestinian-socialist fellow-traveler.

First, I'm a lonely soul. A sole is a fish or the bottom of a shoe.

America first. Remember the Liberty.

I'm sure nobody here has heard of "the Lavon Affair" or "Operation Suzannah," in which the Mossad recruited agents to bomb U.S. facilities in Egypt and blame the Muslim Brotherhood and the Nasser government in Egypt:

The Lavon Affair: When Israel Firebombed U.S. Installations By Richard H. Curtiss

. . . Shortly afterward, the same Israeli army intelligence organization activated two networks of Egyptian Jews first established in 1948. These young people had been recruited in Egypt, secretly trained in Israel, and then sent back to their homes in Cairo and Alexandria to await orders to carry out acts of sabotage in case of war between Egypt and Israel.

Now the networks were to explode small incendiary bombs in American installations in Egypt, presumably to set off a chain of mutual recriminations to spoil the budding Eisenhower-Nasser courtship. After completing their sabotage of American installations, the same networks next were to bomb public places in Cairo and Alexandria, actions that Nasser would attribute to the Muslim Brotherhood, which supported the deposed General Naguib, and thus create a climate of Egyptian instability during the British-Egyptian Canal Zone negotiations.

An Israeli spymaster posing as a German businessman was sent to Cairo to set the plan in motion. On July 14, 1954, while French-influenced Egyptians celebrated Bastille Day as a symbol of the overthrow of monarchies both in France and in Egypt, incendiary devices exploded in U.S. Information Service libraries and consular offices open to the public in both Cairo and Alexandria.

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0792/92070041.html

http://ariwatch.com/ThisIsOurAlly.htm#Articles

"Personally, I think Galube is paid to do this."

Are you suggesting galubb is a plant by the powers that be to:

A. Add entertainment value?

B. Puff up yodas lackluster job performance?

C. Wizbang has a Jeckyl and Hyde complex?

Or does it draw sustenance from a foreign power like Sorose?

No one is that hard up. And if thet are they wasted their money.

Never bring a rock to a car fight.

Let me recap galoob's position: he's just fine with war crimes, like having children rush speeding cars with rocks (cars driven by civilians), deliberately looking to get run over, as long as it's done against Israel.

I can expand on that: galoob has absolutely no problem with any kind of war crimes at all, as long as they're carried out against Israelis, Americans, or other Westerners, civilian or military, valid targets or innocents.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, galoob. But I think I got it pretty much correct.

J.

War crimes? USS Liberty Veterans' Association War Crimes Report against Israel regarding the attack on the Liberty:

http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/files/War%20Crimes%20Report.pdf

And let me recap JT's position:

He's OK with the Israeli fire-bombing of US facilities,

the theft of top secrets and their sale to the Soviet Union by Israeli spies,

the bombing and strafing of US Navy ships by the Israelis,

as long as it's done by Israel.

Me? I put America first, not Israel. I have facts, not sophomoric and sophistic bullshit and propaganda.

the difference galoob is that we see things like the spying etc and we believe that those issues can be handled on a case by case basis. You believe that this is an indictment of the Israelis and believe that we should be mounting a war on them and not against the people who fill the streets screaming "Death to America".

We believe that while the Israel has wronged us in some ways that the benefit of the relationship (mainly as a counterballance to those nations driving their peoplem into the streets to screa "Death to America") is worth it.

We are not blind or ignorant of history as you are. We look at history to understand today and not dismiss it as you did in post #20.

In short we believe that the people and nations that have declared war on the American public are more our enemies than is Israel, which has defended our interests in the region and stands for freedom and democracy in a region dominated by despots. You on the other hand seem to have been taken in by the typical lefty antiSemitic propaganda and believe that Israel is the source of conflict in the middle east.

If you want to know how the conflict started you have to go back to the era of the Palestinian Mandate and see how Britain handled the region and what happened in that period. You would see how dishonestly the arabs acted and how without regard to the lives of the arab people in that region they used them as pawns for their own selfish political purposes.

We believe that while the Israel has wronged us in some ways that the benefit of the relationship (mainly as a counterbalance to those nations driving their people into the streets to scream "Death to America") is worth it.

Sounds like a profession of religious faith to me, jim m. "We believe . . ." No facts.

Why and how is the relationship worth it?

You overlook the inconvenient fact that our blind support for Israel has brought out a lot of those people shouting "Death to America."

That is what Gen. Petraeus was talking about - Israel acts, creates hate and discontent in the region, and we in the USA get blamed because we pay for and cover for Israel's bad behavior.

I merely say we should stop aid to Israel and stop covering for them. That's $7 billion saved, for starters.

galagoob-

"Me? I put America first, not Israel. I have facts, not sophomoric and sophistic bullshit and propaganda."

Then you voted aginst Barrys agenda last tuesday right? Good move.

Check this out:

First post by Galube: 9:58 AM

Latest post: 7:06 PM

This bizarre antisemitic little troll has been here all day. And this isn't the first time he's done this. People, you've been trying to reason with it all day. What has it gotten you? Just downvote it, set your comment score threshold to -1, and chuckle as hours worth of typing by him vanishes into a single line, easily ignored.

See, it's posts like this that make me think galoon is BryanD on better meds or a more aggressive therapist..

I'm not justifying children (teenage boys) fighting, but ......

>>> In other words, yes you ARE justifying it.

Hey, it's all good Galoot. By that logic, you should have ZERO trouble with the Oklahoma City bomber, or any midwest militias.

And of course, you certainly won't cry next time a blue state gets terror attacked.

Time for popcorn!

"You overlook the inconvenient fact that our blind support for Israel has brought out a lot of those people shouting "Death to America."" -galoob

So you would have us abandon someone because they are unpopular? With people like you the slaves never would have been freed, Hitler would never have been stopped, genocides would never be opposed.

Count me as very thankful that I don't have to rely upon disgusting leftists like yourself for my freedom and preservation of my life.

You are correct that the Israelis are hated by the arabs which are as a culture among the most racist, misogynistic, homophobic, AntiSemitic and antiChristian people in the world. If you want the US to determine its foreign policy based on the vulgar prejudices of one of the most prejudiced groups on earth then you are in a sorry state.

What a hoot this thread is.

Galoob cites an Israeli historian who has written acclaimed books on the subject, posting his sources. Jim tells us Galoob is wrong about Deir Yassin on the strength of his assertions alone. According to Jim, Deir Yassin never happened. How do we know this is true? BECAUSE JIM SAYS SO.

Jim likes to quote the Peel Commission from 1936, and statements from British High Commissioners, omitting the fact that the British were, from the beginning, biased in favor of the European Jews and against the darker-hued "Wogs", their charming term for those they subjugated when they "picked up the White Man's Burden." Hence Lord Balfour's promise, in 1917, of a "National Home" for the Jews in Palestine ON LAND THAT WASN'T BRITAIN'S TO GIVE AWAY.

But what's really amusing is seeing Jim accuse another commenter of dishonest argument. Considering his behavior on another thread just this last weekend, and many others on the same subject in the past, that's soooo ironic.

Galoob raises a point that others here are unwilling to discuss - that much of the anti-Americanism in the world is because of the perception that America is being led by the nose by Israel, a perception that is largely based on fact. Others here are so unwilling to discuss it that all he gets for his efforts are name-calling, words put in his mouth, and pleas for readers to "just ignore him!"

Like I said, a real hoot.

You guys, especially you, Jim, would do well to read a little more widely about the history of Zionism and related subjects. Try pulling a book off the shelf that doesn't just affirm your preconceived narrative. Just for fun, try one that's not published by Regnery Press.

Galoof also justified child warfare and other acts of terrorism.

Next time a plane slams into a building in a blue state, remind me to just shrug and say "oh well. It's asymetrical warfare"

"You guys, especially you, Jim, would do well to read a little more widely about the history of Zionism and related subjects. "

I have read up. I just don't filter what I read through the lens of antisemitism.

Hey jim, Americans don't cower at the accusation of anti-semitism for questioning Israel anymore.

That shit is like the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Oppose the traitor Pollard getting released? You're an anti-semite.

Question the $billions we give Israel? You're an anti-semite.

Ask if Israeli actions are getting US troops killed around the world, you're an anti-semite.

Gen. Petraeus was accused of it after he questioned Israeli actions. Stephen Walt and John Mearshimer were accused of it aftet they wrote The Israel Lobby

Not to mention that many critics of Israel are Jews, even Israelis. David Grossman lost his son in the Lebanon war. Gideon Levy. Philip Weiss. Norman Finklestein.

Given how Israel kicks us in the ass and bites the hand that feeds it, I guess I can accuse you of having loyalty to a foreign country before America, say you're anti-American.

America first.

Meanwhile, Israel tells us that we can shove our settlement freeze on the West Bank up our ass, and where's our check?

Israel Plans 1,000 Housing Units in East Jerusalem JERUSALEM -- Israel has published plans for some 1,000 new housing units in a hotly contested area of Jerusalem, advancing the approval process at a delicate time when the United States is pressing Israel to renew a freeze in settlement construction and get stalled peace negotiations with the Palestinians back on track. . .

"We were deeply disappointed by the announcement of advance planning for new housing units in sensitive areas of East Jerusalem," said the State Department spokesman, Philip J. Crowley. "It is counterproductive to our efforts to resume direct negotiations between the parties."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/world/middleeast/09mideast.html?ref=global-home

Galoob....heh, just another anti-semitic, racist liberal with no original thoughts. Just the endless posting of other de-bunked myths in a weak attempt to cover up his own pathetic racist and hateful views.

I've yet to meet a true "liberal" who wasn't anything other than humanity loathing, contemptible, racist, lying with distinct mental problems.

A waste of skin.

yup, galoob will do anything to excuse his anti-Semitism. Cite the thoroughly-discredited Walt and Mearshimer. Excuse the endless atrocities committed by the Palestinians. 'Cuz the Joooos are committing unspeakable atrocities like building houses.

galoob, you're a joke. You're a parody of the anti-Semitic left. And you're not even funny at it.

J.

# 61 claims Galoob's sources are "easily debunked." # 62 claims Walt and Mearshimer are "thoroughly discredited."

I ask, debunked by whom? Thoroughly discredited by whom? Red State? World Net Daily?

I agree there's no justifying using children in what Galoob unfortunately terms "asymmetric warfare." But Mr Tea and others here have not come CLOSE to discrediting Galoob's larger points - that Israel's actions are harming and have harmed America, that we should distance ourselves from the worst of those actions, and we should stop sending aid until Israel agrees to abide by the norms of civilized behavior.

Oh, and weak try at accusing others of antisemitism, Jim. Disingenuous as always, I see.

"I have read up." Sure you have.

Tell me, Bruce, why don't we ever see you leftists writing length diatribes about China, North Korea, Pakistan, or any of the other states who regularly stomp on human rights? You twits act as if Israel is the second coming of Nazi Germany. Why? Why does this postage-stamp-sized country, surrounded by enemies who've vowed to destroy her, serve as the focus of your venom?

Israel alone, of all the states on the planet, draws your ire. Israel alone causes you anger. And you leftists never hold the Palestinians accountable for their actions. You never demand they stop launching rockets, stop attacking Israelis, stop using their children as ammunition.

Did you READ my comment above, Otto?

Tell you what, send me your email address and I'll send you copies of everything I've ever written about North Korea, etc.

See, I'm against human rights abuses whether committed by friend or foe. You, on the other hand, only focus on those we already abhor.

Oh, and if by "venom" you mean "thoughts with which Otto disagrees" I plead guilty to venom-focusing.

# 61 claims Galoob's sources are "easily debunked." # 62 claims Walt and Mearshimer are "thoroughly discredited."

I ask, debunked by whom? Thoroughly discredited by whom? Red State? World Net Daily?

I agree there's no justifying using children in what Galoob unfortunately terms "asymmetric warfare."

They're easily debunked if you just say "Because I say so."

As for "asymmetric warfare," that's that the U.S. military calls it. The fact of militarily weaker parties using schemes to present a favorable media picture of David vs. Goliath. Using children throwing rocks is undeniably asymmetric.

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/summary.cfm?q=223

As for why we're not talking about North Korea, this thread is about Israel-Palestine, Otto you dolt.

Did you READ my comment above, Otto?

Yep. My question stands: why don't we ever see you leftists writing length diatribes about China, North Korea, Pakistan, or any of the other states who regularly stomp on human rights? Mention Israel and vermin like Galube will spend mindless hour after mindless hour engaging in borderline (in his case, very borderline) antisemitism.

Why? What IS it with you leftists and your hatred for Israel? Do you honestly think Galube would do that in a thread about Iran? Or China?

Tell you what, send me your email address and I'll send you copies of everything I've ever written about North Korea, etc.

Done. Click on my name. It'll take you to my now-defunct blog. On the right you'll see an e-mail address. Feel free to send me "copies of everything" you've ever written attacking nations other than Israel. If I see that you spend significant time (and no, sweetie, I don't mean a few lines here and there saying North Korea sucks, I mean significant time, as in blog posts or lengthy comments) attacking those countries for their human rights abuses, I'll apologize. If I see things you've written defending Israel or attacking the Palestinians, I'll be much impressed and also apologize.

But y'know something... I don't think I'm going to have to.

See, I'm against human rights abuses whether committed by friend or foe.

Sure you are. It's not that I don't believe you, Bruce, it's that I don't believe you. Your outrage against human rights abuses seems selective.

You, on the other hand, only focus on those we already abhor.

Pot, kettle, etc.

Bruce, on conservative blog after conservative blog, any thread that mentions Israel or the Palestinians draws you leftists like flies. And over and over, any atrocity the Palestinians commit is ignored or excused while anything the Israelis do to defend themselves is attacked. Just once, just once I'd like to be surprised by one of you, but I've seen it too many times.

Oh, and if by "venom" you mean "thoughts with which Otto disagrees" I plead guilty to venom-focusing.

No, by "venom" I mean you hate Israel.

Well, Otto, you have exposed me for the dastardly liar I am. I don't have copies of anything I've written about North Korea or Iran. I don't have copies of ANYTHING I've written. That was supposed to be a JOKE, you humorless schmuck!

I comment on blogs, I'm not a published writer. I work in the freaking pest control industry. Sheesh.

Now, as for why you don't see me posting comments critical of North Korea, umm, what's the point? My role here, as Wizbang has so graciously allowed me to play it, is as a contrary voice, a "troll," as it were. I leave it to others to form an Amen Chorus. If I don't post on a thread, you can assume it's because either I agree with the tenor of the piece in question ( or the comments), I have no opinion, I didn't find the article or comments interesting enough to bestir myself, or that I'm just, you know, busy.

You are free to believe me or not, of course, about my opposition to human rights abuses, Otto. But I would like for you to cite, if you would, anything I've written above that can be fairly characterized as "venom" or "hatred for Israel." Go ahead, pull any sentence out of one of my comments and show me the "venom." And, no, "sweetie," (where did you get that makes-me-uncomfortable habit?) I don't mean anything at all critical of Israeli policy or its government's behavior. I mean venom, or hatred. You know, what the words actually mean.

To paraphrase a Great Writer on another thread, "What the Right has done, Otto, is to utterly devalue the charge of 'anti-Semitism.' It's been so over-used, it's now used as a derisive badge of honor -- 'Hey, a wingnut called an anti-SEEEEEEMIIITE. I've made it!'"

You can't bully me, Otto, and neither can that idiot who calls himself Drago.

Here's some food for thought for you, Otto.

While it's disgusting that these Palestinians have chosen to use children in this way, that doesn't diminish or negate the fact that the Palestinian people have real grievances.

Bruce, "the argument clinic" is hysterical when done by Monty Python. By others? It's just annoying.

What I'd prefer you do is express your honest opinions. I don't want or need someone who will automatically gainsay me just because you feel like it.

I have always taken you for sincere; I think you're wrong on most things, but I didn't think you were dishonest on it, just being contrary for shits and giggles.

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you.

J.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Mr Tea. I'm certainly not trying to offend you.

What I'm trying to get across to Otto here (and since he seems to be an admirer of your writing, I co-opted your phrases in my paraphrase) is that the Right is doing with anti-Semitism what you guys are always accusing the Left of doing.

Namely, using bogus charges of anti-Semitism to silence any and all critics of Israeli policies and actions. As you accuse the Left of doing, with bogus charges of racism, to silence any and all critics of Obama's policies and actions.

Don't you see the parallel? Do YOU see anything I wrote in this thread that could be fairly construed as "venom" or "hatred of Israel?"