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End Of The Line

In January 1947, a Navy veteran and scion of a very powerful man entered Congress. Representative John F. Kennedy spent the next 14 years in Congress, but before he assumed the presidency his brother Robert moved to New York and joined him in the Senate. Then, in 1963, his other (surviving) brother, Ted, took John's old seat (having had to wait until he was 30 years old), and for a brief time all three brothers were in DC.

Then, in November, John was assassinated. Almost five years later, Robert was also gunned down, leaving just Ted in Congress. He was later joined by Robert's son Joe for several years, and after that Ted's son Patrick came on down. Ted stayed in the Senate until his death last year, and in January Patrick will leave the House.

Which means for the first time in 64 years, there will be no member of the Kennedy family in Congress.

And that service has been a most remarkable demonstration of the reverse Darwinism that has been the hallmark of so many prominent American families -- as the generations go on, the quality of the family members visibly declines.

Jack was the superstar. He had the charm and wit and grace that won him election after election after election, all the way to the presidency. And while he wasn't fully prepared for the challenges of the office (then again, who really is?), he grew into the job and did a pretty decent job. His assassination, however, has turned him into a martyr and tended to romanticize his brief term of office, making it difficult to render an objective opinion of his presidency.

Robert was the "moral" one. He brought a passion for justice and fairness to the job, a fierce intensity that Jack lacked. He wasn't the glamourous one; he was the moral warrior. And he, too, tends to be romanticized for his assassination.

I've always thought of Teddy as an American Falstaff. He was the last son, named after the family chauffeur (Eddie Moore). His father's grand plan for a dynasty of presidents (Joe Jr., Jack, then Bobby) didn't really have a spot for Teddy; he got shoved up each time he saw another of his brothers die while in public service. He found a comfortable home in the Senate, but not even his disgraceful conduct at Chappaquiddick could finish off talks of a presidential run -- he had to take that on in 1980, and that drove the final nail in that coffin. He went back to the Senate, where he lasted right up until the day he died.

Robert's son, Joseph Patrick Kennedy II, showed a bit more of Teddy's influence than his father's. Just before his 21st birthday, he was tooling around in a Jeep with a couple of other people when he flipped it. His little brother David broke his back, but recovered; David's girlfriend, Pam Kelley, also broke hers, and she didn't recover -- she's paralyzed to this day.

That didn't hamper his political career. He was elected to Congress in 1987, staying in office until 1999, developing a reputation as one of the dumber members of that chamber. After getting out of office, he loaned his name to Citizens Energy, which provides heating oil to the poor.

Of course, simply doing good deeds isn't enough. Joe had to put his own special touch on the enterprise. He made the whole thing about him, putting his name and face on billboards, starring front and center in their ads, and even branding their phone number -- 1-800-JOE FOR OIL. He collects a healthy six-figure salary each year from them. And after Venezuela's thug-in-chief Hugo Chavez gave Citizens a healthy gift of oil, he's become a shill for the socialist tyrant. (Damned good investment, Hugo!)

Finally, there's the departing last scion of Camelot, Patrick Joseph Kennedy II. (There's a serious lack of originality in names in the Kennedy family -- note the similarities between these last two.) Ted's son inherited his father's appetites for intoxicants, but apparently missed the gene for tolerance. He's had a serious history of substance abuse, addictions, intoxications, car accidents (must be a gene for that one, too), and DWI arrests. In 2004, at a Howard Dean presidential campaign event, he drunkenly denounced one key element of President Bush's presidency. "I don't need Bush's tax cut. I've never worked a fucking day in my life." In vino veritas, indeed.

64 years, always with at least one Kennedy in Congress. For four years (1995-1999), there were three of them. Come January, we shall have to muddle on without their guidance.

However shall we survive?

Somewhat more safely and soberly, I suspect. But it's my understanding that on the day Patrick passes into the Dreaded Private Sector, where he has never spent a single day (he was first elected to the Rhode Island House of Representatives while a college sophomore, and truly never has "worked a fucking day in his life"), several DC liquor stores will be posting black ribbons in his honor.

But that's still almost two months away. We'll drive off that bridge when we get to it.


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Comments (55)

"He collects a healthy six-... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"He collects a healthy six-figure salary each year from them."

Yeah. 1/2 MILLION a year. Not bad for running a "non-profit" organization dedicated to "poor people".

Teddy was the runt of the litter and little was expected of him. Naturally he lived up to those expectations. I strongly suspect that Patches went to Washington because "Daddy expects it of me." Daddy's dead, so now Patches can leave. Maybe Joe can find a place for him at the feeding trough called Citizen's Energy.

To put a point on it, the entire family has been living off (feeding off) the death of two of it's members. Even Carolyn expected a US Senate seat, based solely on her last name.

I was never a Kennedy fan. ... (Below threshold)
mag:

I was never a Kennedy fan. My gosh, just look how they treat their women and women in general. Jack and Jackie were okay, but it just been down hill since them, for the most part I find them pretty disgusting.
So I said, Thank Goodness....

What a way to remember JFK'... (Below threshold)
galoob:

What a way to remember JFK's election.

Stay classy, JT.

No return to Camesot.... (Below threshold)
Sotero the magi negro:

No return to Camesot.

What's the matter, galoob? ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

What's the matter, galoob? JT puncturing another balloon? Here's some more Kool Aid to sip on. Patriarch Joe was a conniving stock manipulator, rum runner, skirt chaser and failure as a diplomat. He took his mentally deficient daughter (an embarrassment) and had her lobotomized - turned into a vegetable - behind his wife's back. His ambitions drove the family. Face it, "Leave it to Beaver" was not what this family was all about. It was all about wielding power. During the 1960 campaign, Bobby got his socks knocked off when he pushed for Black support for Jack at the convention. You might say his 'social awakening' came about at that time. Yeah, galoob, real winners.

Oh, almost forgot about Sen... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Oh, almost forgot about Senator Teddy's little dalliance with the Soviets behind President Reagan's back.

Talk about "classy". Right, galoob?

P.S. The media (again) has... (Below threshold)
mag:

P.S. The media (again) has forced the Kennedys down our throats....but really all they are is a very, very disfuncational family with a lot of money.
Oh, their bad luck...I think they brought a lot of that on themselves and mainly because of their money.

While it has not been prove... (Below threshold)
Stan:

While it has not been proven, a lot of people think that Bobby had Marilyn Monroe killed. I do know for a fact that Joe DeMaggio had no use for the Kennedy clan to his dying day.

I doubt he had her killed. ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

I doubt he had her killed. However that's not to say that both he and Jack screwed with her mind (as well as something else) - to the point that she 'self-medicated' herself to death.

Yeah, galoob, real winne... (Below threshold)
galoob:

Yeah, galoob, real winners.

5. Posted by GarandFan

No family and nobody is perfect. We do know that two sons (JFK and Joseph) volunteered for the most hazardous kind of duty in WWII. JFK was injured, Joseph was killed.

The judgment of history is that JFK was a pretty good president. He stood up to the Soviets without getting us into a nuclear war. As noted in earlier threads, he cut taxes and helped the economy grew. He advanced civil rights. He made the pledge, later fulfilled, to visit the moon.

He was assassinated in what was the most shocking event in the last 100 years, save Pearl Harbor and 9/11.

His brother RFK was also assassinated. You could say three brothers died in the service of their country. Why can't right-wing nutsos acknowledge that service?

Teddy had drinking problems, who wouldn't? You try to live with three brothers and a sister dying early the way they did, and being the recipient of death threats from all kinds of nutbars with Garands and other rifles.

The Kennedys had decades of... (Below threshold)
Sotero the magi negro:

The Kennedys had decades of fairytale adulation by the likes of galoob. They are history. Wish he was too.

With JFK allowing federal e... (Below threshold)
Hank:

With JFK allowing federal employees to unionize and Teddy competely destroying our immigration laws, let alone pushing for national health care, we can thank them for doing more damage to the country than anyone would have thought possible.

Gee, and I thought I said N... (Below threshold)

Gee, and I thought I said NICE things about Jack. And Robert. The rest... well, truth is an absolute defense.

And thanks, galoob, you've given me a great excuse to bring out one more line I've always refrained from using:

Ted Kennedy did his nation one last great service upon his death. By burying him alongside his brothers Jack and Bobby, he serves as an emergency back-up source of fuel for the Eternal Flame -- his alcohol-sotted remains could keep that sucker going for at least a week.

J.

10. Posted by galoob ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

10. Posted by galoob

Translation: YOU PEOPLE LEAVE THE KENNEDYS (genuflect here) ALONE!

Your right galoob, they were not perfect. So why all the over-the-top adulation?

Volunteered for "the most dangerous duty"? Come on guy, even for you that's a stretch. Want to know the real scoop? Jack wanted a command. He was an ensign. Lowest rung on the 'officer and gentleman' ladder. You don't command any ship as an ensign. But a PT boat! Wow! After Jack's little run in with a Japanese destroyer, big brother Joe Jr. had to find a way to one-up his younger sibling (Jack got the Navy & Marine Corps Medal in lieu of the CMH that Daddy wanted FDR to give him). So he volunteered for that stupid 'radio controlled flying bomb' mission - that had already experienced a couple of spectacular failures. There was a letter published in which Joe Jr congratulates Jack on his medal. He goes on to say that he's volunteered for a 'secret mission'. Couldn't talk about it - is was so 'hush-hush' - but that there was probably a medal in it (Navy Cross) for him. Only he didn't survive. Dying for 'god and country'? No, just more of that inter-family rivalry that Joe Sr encouraged, because everyone wanted Papa's attention. And Papa only wanted 'winners'.

Did Jack do any good? Yeah. But once again, WHY THE NEED to genuflect?

Having lived through the Ke... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Having lived through the Kennedy assasination, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, attempt on Ford, attempt on Reagan, being assasinated is a terrible thing and their is no doubt about it. But through a complicit press and the Kennedy's connections, the womanizing and drug abusing was kept quiet. IF Kennedy had provided air support for the invasion of Cuba like it was planned, the Soviets would not have gone forward with the missle installation attempt. So Kennedy caused his own crisis and back dealed the removal of our missles in Turkey to seal the deal. He is like his appeasing father. It is like Carter, whose lack of decisiveness caused the radical Muslims to get bolder all the time up to where we are now. Carter had his shot to stop the radicalization of Islam in 1979 and did NOTHING.

I personally am glad there are no Kennedy's serving in Congress. ww

Oh, and galoob, just becaus... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Oh, and galoob, just because you've really pissed me off ........ let's continue the 'Kennedy Family Legacy" with more stupidity.

John Jr flies off with his wife and sister-in-law and KILLS them - by flying in weather conditions (instrument rated) that he was not qualified for. The US Navy spends over $1 MILLION of taxpayer funds to retrieve the bodies. Just so that Jr and his wife can be cremated AND BURIED AT SEA. Which is where they were in the first place.

A local pilot went in just off the coast here recently. And he's gonna stay there because his last name isn't Kennedy.

You want to know the real irony galoob? As Jackie noted "A fucking leftist killed my husband!" And a Palestinian killed Bobby. So don't give me your fucking drivel about "and being the recipient of death threats from all kinds of nutbars with Garands and other rifles."

Genuflect all you want. Just don't expect everyone else to automatically fall to their knees.

garand -Volunteered for ... (Below threshold)
galoob:

garand -Volunteered for "the most dangerous duty"? Come on guy, even for you that's a stretch. Want to know the real scoop? Jack wanted a command. He was an ensign. Lowest rung on the 'officer and gentleman' ladder. You don't command any ship as an ensign. But a PT boat! Wow!

So what? Any naval officer worth anything wants command. PTs were dangerous duty. I give Kerry credit for volunteering for Vietnam and Swift Boats, but deduct a lot of his credit for leaving after only four months. I give George Bush Sr. the most credit for continuing to fly in combat missions, after being shot down, just as I take credit from his son for not volunteering for Vietnam, getting out of his obligation and never being promoted to Captain.

Dangerous shit is dangerous, and it takes balls to brave death no matter the motivation. You either take the step up or you decide you have "other priorities." Joe Jr. and JFK stepped up and risked their lives.

WW - So Kennedy caused his own crisis and back dealed the removal of our missles in Turkey to seal the deal. He is like his appeasing father. It is like Carter, whose lack of decisiveness caused the radical Muslims to get bolder all the time up to where we are now. Carter had his shot to stop the radicalization of Islam in 1979 and did NOTHING.

That is among the dumbest things I have ever read here. So things would have turned out better if Kennedy had attacked Cuba, with the nuke missiles operational as we know now, to save obsolete Thor missiles in Turkey which were going to be removed early? Given that the Soviet Union collapsed on its own anyways without a nuclear war, that's pretty dumb.

I'll add that Reagan also appeased radical Muslims, when he pulled out of Beirut, and then sold weapons to Iran, the sponsor of the Hezbollah guys who killed the Marines in Beirut.

Bobby was elected to the se... (Below threshold)
ag:

Bobby was elected to the senate in 64 and ran for president with only 4 years experience in the senae. Makes me wonder if this gave our current leader the idea to run.

I'll actually agree with Ga... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

I'll actually agree with Galoob in 17 - PT boats WERE hazardous duty, equally (if not more) on a par with Naval aviation.

Re Bush's service - hard to get into a war zone during a drawdown, when the aircraft type isn't needed.

But the Kennedys being out of politics - at least for a while? Good thing, as far as I'm concerned.

galoob -Do you hav... (Below threshold)
jim2:

galoob -

Do you have a source for your statement that Bush did not volunteer for Vietnam? I thought that he had, but that few or none of the planes for which he was a qualified pilot were going, and that his hours count did not get him on the list.

I've alwys wondered what wo... (Below threshold)
jim2:

I've alwys wondered what would have happened if the eldest Kennedy son had survived the war. Was he charasmatic like JFK? Intense like Bobby? If so, a real dynasty could have started with him.

OTOH, if he was more like Teddy, he might have ended things before they started.

I don't know; I've never seen much on Joe Jr.

Someone on another thread... (Below threshold)
LeBron Steinman:

Someone on another thread nailed it yesterday.
Persistent brain-dead herpes sore 'galoob' is re-branded dinosaur troll "bryanD"
Unmistakable, telltale MO and 'argument' technique.

jim2, you are correct. <br ... (Below threshold)
Hank:

jim2, you are correct.
galoob, as usual, not so much.

W did volunteer, but was turned down in favor of more experienced pilots.

Do you have a source for... (Below threshold)
galoob:

Do you have a source for your statement that Bush did not volunteer for Vietnam? I thought that he had, but that few or none of the planes for which he was a qualified pilot were going, and that his hours count did not get him on the list.

See page 22 of his actual (not Dan Rather) service records - "I do not volunteer for overseas"

Here:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/3-Grade_Determination.pdf

The claim that he volunteered is just undocumented, unsubstantiated bullshit.

I wonder how he addresses this in his memoirs.

Your history is a bit off:<... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Your history is a bit off:

John F. Kennedy spent the next 14 years in Congress, but before he assumed the presidency his brother Robert moved to New York and joined him in the Senate. Then, in 1963, his other


Nope. Bobby had never run for Congress in John's lifetime. He worked mostly as Senate counsel and for the Justice Department. JFK named him Attorney General after taking office in 1961. It was only after the assassination that he resigned and ran in 1964 for the Senate from New York, where he had only lived briefly when assigned to the US Attorney there in the early '50s.

Galoob -Take it fr... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Galoob -

Take it from an old AF Reserve personnel specialist - what you're looking at is an application for assignment to specific training. When someone fills that out, you CANNOT put 'I volunteer for overseas duty' on it, and expect to get the training if the training location is stateside.

After you're done with it, you've got the choice to fill out what used to be known as a 'dream sheet', detailing where you want to go worldwide. That supersedes any previous selections you may have made.

That this was filled out BEFORE he went to pilot's training means pretty much nothing.

Enlisted folk going into Basic Training in the '70s had to fill out a dream sheet when they arrived at Lackland - and we were told EXPLICITLY to NOT mark the 'I volunteer' box. Doing so would cause you to have to redo the entire form. Or cause the civilian personnel techs to do it - those ladies could type like crazy, and they got pissed off when you made stupid mistakes.

Also, note his grade at the time - Airman. Not 2nd Lt. His AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code) is that of a 702, or Adminstrative Specialist. This was well before he was a pilot.

The paperwork tells the story, but you've got to understand what you're looking at or you'll get the interpretation wrong.

galoob -Thank you ... (Below threshold)
jim2:

galoob -

Thank you for posting a link to those documents. I think you may have misinterpreted them, however. Bear with me for a moment.

Bush graduated from college in May 1968 and wanted to be a pilot like his father had been. The document you cited (page 22) was his application and commissioning document from May 1968. It would be two years or so before he became a qualified and experienced fighter pilot.

It was after he was a qualified pilot with flight time that he volunteered for Vietnam. He was quite willing to fight in Vietnam, but as a fighter pilot. It was then that he was informed that the cut list for his plane type was based on pilot hours and that his hours count was not high enough to make the cut.

I do not know what other later Bush documents might be on the net. BTW, I looked for John Kerry's and did not see them, either.

JLawson -You obvio... (Below threshold)
jim2:

JLawson -

You obviously read or type faster than I do, maybe both.

"The paperwork tells the... (Below threshold)
914:

"The paperwork tells the story, but you've got to understand what you're looking at or you'll get the interpretation wrong."

galoob specializes in wrong.


"I wonder how he addresses this in his memoirs."

As if your going to read it or it matters one iota. Now exscuse me while I go vote you neg.


OK, JLawson and jim2, maybe... (Below threshold)
galoob:

OK, JLawson and jim2, maybe I'm wrong, but if Bush really wanted to go to Vietnam in 1968 there were many fast tracks for him to get there.

For example he could have gone on active duty instead of ANG, into a unit which flew planes not needed in Vietnam.

The whole NG thing seems a bit Quayle-ish to me.

galoob -What I hav... (Below threshold)
jim2:

galoob -

What I have read is that Bush wanted to fly, to be a pilot. More precisely, he wanted to be a fighter pilot. He graduated from college in May 1968, and looked for the fastest path to that goal, and that was the NG. Once he was a fighter pilot, he was quite happy to fly in combat duty and applied and did not get it, and then left.

He certainly could not have had control of what planes the NG flew. For that matter, I doubt anyone could have guessed in 1968 what planes would be needed two or three years later when he would be qualified and deployment ready.

I have a nephew who was in AFROTC whose dream had always bee to fly, to be a fighter pilot. At a summer AFROTC "camp" they told him and all the others that fewer than 1 in 10 would become a pilot, and fewer than that a fighter pilot. Nonetheless, they said, they needed right then and there to sign the dotted line for their multi-year obligation. If any of them was not willing to accept those odds ("not man enough"), then now was the time to get up and leave and they would get them tickets back home.

He got up and left. A smart young man.

If Bush's dream had been to be a fighter pilot but, unlike my nephew, he found a path to the sky, he was a smart man to take it.

"OK, JLawson and jim2, m... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"OK, JLawson and jim2, maybe I'm wrong, but if Bush really wanted to go to Vietnam in 1968 there were many fast tracks for him to get there."

The military sends you where they need you, Galoob - no matter what's on your papers. (For instance, a 443 missile mechanic, trained on either the Minuteman or Titan ICBM systems, could put in a request to be transferred overseas - but if there's no place he can be assigned, he'll stay stateside regardless of what the paperwork says.)

And it takes time to turn someone into a military pilot, and qualify them in the aircraft they're best suited for. The Iron Eagle series of movies were very unrealistic garbage. The military spends a shitload of money to train their pilots, they're not going to waste it on folks who (a) don't have the aptitude and (b) don't have the drive to do it. In '72, there was basically no air war requiring interceptors, and the decision had been made to retire the aircraft he'd trained and qualified in. Add in a surplus of pilots since Viet Nam was winding down (and you ARE familiar with the old 'last in, first out' theory of excess personnel separation, I take it...) and he was real low on the totem pole for retraining into something else.

Still waiting for you to ask the right question, though...

Lebron-"Per... (Below threshold)
914:

Lebron-


"Persistent brain-dead herpes sore 'galoob' is re-branded dinosaur troll "bryanD"
Unmistakable, telltale MO and 'argument' technique."


Yes, but I dont recall bryanD ever voting himself up or me down? The 'liberalitis' must have reached advanced stages.

Actually, pilots from Georg... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Actually, pilots from George Bush's unit were flying in Vietnam before he requested the posting. By the time he had enough hours in the cockpit the Air Force decided to pull the F-102 off the front line. Not something he could predict or control.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml

The F-102 was an intercepto... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

The F-102 was an interceptor. Their 'target' was not other fighters. The plane was designed to get up and high real fast in order to intercept Soviet bombers. (If the engine went out, they had the flight characteristics of a brick).

Bush's training and experience (limited as it was) - was not what the AF was looking for in pilots going to Vietnam. They were looking for Thud pilots and fighter jocks.

Nice how someone's highjack... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Nice how someone's highjacked the thread.

Next thread is an ignore ga... (Below threshold)
914:

Next thread is an ignore galoob fest. Enjoy!

galoob the moron: "just as ... (Below threshold)
Drago:

galoob the moron: "just as I take credit from his son for not volunteering for Vietnam, getting out of his obligation and never being promoted to Captain."

Oh my God.

Too much stupidity and ignorance....must restrain fingers......must not type long-winded response illustrating the absolute ignorance of galoob comments.........

galoob:"OK, JLawson and jim2, maybe I'm wrong, but if Bush really wanted to go to Vietnam in 1968 there were many fast tracks for him to get there."

sheesh. Where do I start? I'm too tired. It's hopeless.

BTW, why isn't galoob packi... (Below threshold)
Drago:

BTW, why isn't galoob packing heat in Afghanistan for his favorite messiah, obambi?

I mean, what are you galoob? A chickenhawk?

This is a compare-and-contr... (Below threshold)
galoob:

This is a compare-and-contrast to the Kennedys.

What I have read is that Bush wanted to fly, to be a pilot. More precisely, he wanted to be a fighter pilot.

Why didn't he go Navy, like his father? He could have gone to aviation OCS and then flight school. Then gone on active duty and flown off a carrier on Yankee Station.

He went NG instead, then after the $$$ spent training him, he bagged out, stopped flying and drilling well before his obligation was up.

He never even made O-3. Usually all you need to do to make O-3 is walk, chew gum and not get arrested for molesting the CO's daughter or son.

galoob said:He never... (Below threshold)
JOHND:

galoob said:
He never even made O-3. Usually all you need to do to make O-3 is walk, chew gum and not get arrested for molesting the CO's daughter or son.

Sounds like galoob is an authority on molesting. "and son" is especially disturbing.

How can someone be allowed to post such things?

Galoob -You forgot... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Galoob -

You forgot time in grade and time in service. He'd have to have been an O-2 (Lieutenant) for two years minimum before promotion to Captain, and an O-1 (2nd Lt.) for 18 months to two years before being promoted to O-2. And Reserve promotions are slower than active duty promotions.

Seeing he was getting out (which certainly wasn't uncommon at the time - consider that the draft had ended, the VietNam war was ending and there wasn't as much of a need for pilots) there would have been no reason to promote him.

As far as what branch he chose - that was his choice. My grandfather was in the Army in WW1, father in the Navy in WW2, my brother in the Navy in the early 60s. I figured I'd go AF to be different.

Re his drilling - do I REALLY have to explain to you that when there's a surplus of pilots and a shortage of money, individual flying time is going to be cut? And I've looked at his records - I could give you a month by month analysis of his attendance records for his last year before getting out. As a Reservist, there's a certain amount of time you HAVE to attend per year to have a 'good'; year for retirement purposes - and he did that and a bit more.

So he didn't duck out of his drill time. (And if you don't believe me, ask Baldilocks - she'll set you straight.)

You're just a real wealth of ignorance on what was going on back then and all things military, aren't ya?

And you still haven't asked the right question.

<a href="http://www.washing... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Here's a bit more historical and cultural info you seem to be totally missing, Galoob.

It might give you a clue about the question you really should be asking.

But then again - you're probably not going to figure it out.

JLawson,I gather y... (Below threshold)
galoob:

JLawson,

I gather your question is "why wasn't the Guard called up in Vietnam?" Your letter answers that question and tells us why the Guard was a "refuge" from Vietnam.

I don't buy the "F-102 wasn't used in Vietnam" argument. If he wanted to go, he could have rated on an F-4, F-100, or other jet fighter used in Vietnam. Don't tell me the opportunities weren't there.

I also don't buy your explanation of why he didn't get promoted to O-3. As the letter describes, the pilot training and checkouts took about 2 1/2 years of active duty. By that time, he's O-2.

He's appointed as an O-1 in October 1968, he does 2 1/2 years initial active duty for training.

OK, he's still drilling in May 1973, doing what who knows.

Boarding for O-3 is at the 3 1/2 - four year point. He's not promoted with 4 1/2 years in, what does that say?

No, Galoob - you got the qu... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

No, Galoob - you got the question wrong.

Try again.

"Don't tell me the opportun... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"Don't tell me the opportunities weren't there."

Not all squadrons fly all aircraft. He'd be trained on the aircraft for the Air Guard organization he signed on with.

Tell you what - I'll spot you the first word of the question you should be asking.

"If"

"Which means for the first ... (Below threshold)
s/w2001:

"Which means for the first time in 64 years, there will be no member of the Kennedy family in Congress."

And thank God for that, finally. I often think how much better off our country would be, had the boat the Kennedy crime family crossed the Atlantic on had struck an iceberg and sunk.

galoob -"If he wan... (Below threshold)
jim2:

galoob -

"If he wanted to go, he could have rated on an F-4, F-100, or other jet fighter used in Vietnam. Don't tell me the opportunities weren't there."

Sorry, but the opportunities weren't there.

Just what do you think is involved in getting "rated" on a fighter plane?

galoob, quite frankly I'm n... (Below threshold)

galoob, quite frankly I'm not interested in what you're "buying." Because I'm not interested in "selling" to you any more. You've shown, time and again, that you're an intellectual window-shopper who never makes a purchase, and trying to sell to you is an utter waste of time. Further, it detracts from our opportunities to sell to actual interested customers.

Consider yourself fired as a customer. I no longer intend to waste time trying to sell to you.

J.

"and trying to sell to y... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"and trying to sell to you is an utter waste of time."

Actually, Jay Tea, he's pretty amusing in this thread. He's trying so hard to spin stuff he doesn't know anything about that it's laughable. And he doesn't even realize just how much he's ignorant of!

He's like a 3-year old in a firefighter's costume trying to explain to firemen who have trained and qualified and been in their field for years gathering experience how to fight fires. Yes, you put a lot of water on the fire and it goes out... but it's just a little more complex than that. You can look up a regulation, but if you don't know how it's normally interpreted and implemented, you'll miss the point.

I'm still wondering if he's going to pick up on the question he really, really needs to be asking. It's pretty unlikely at this point, though. The cognitive dissonance would be catastrophic - but who knows?

Echoing JLawson (who is a f... (Below threshold)
jim2:

Echoing JLawson (who is a faster reader/typist than moi), I enjoy debunking someone when they spout a slimy conspiracy theory they pulled out of a toilet somewhere.

JL, I was in the USAF for 8... (Below threshold)
Tim:

JL, I was in the USAF for 8 1/2 years, but I have to confess that I don't know what the right question is either. Aww, crap. Now I'm a troll, too. Dang.

Tim -No problem, T... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Tim -

No problem, Tim - I think you already know the question well. You might not think you do - but I'm sure if I were to spell it out you'd go "Oh, duh! Of course!"

Poor Galoob operates on the rock-solid certainty that he knows more about this than any of us do, and that his interpretations are the only right ones. He'll look at one checkbox on a form, never take into account when that form was filled out, and then proceed to draw conclusions from that which cannot be supported.

It's actually pretty amusing, if you like how serious little kids are when they're trying to explain something.

"I don't buy the "F-102 was... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"I don't buy the "F-102 wasn't used in Vietnam" argument."

Perhaps General Galoob will enlighten us as to which fighter squadrons flew the F-102 in Vietnam.

Next thing you know, he'll be telling us that the A-10 is a magnificent air-to-air fighter.

Next thing you know, he'... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Next thing you know, he'll be telling us that the A-10 is a magnificent air-to-air fighter.

I'd put it up against a Hind any day.




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