Governing as a centrist? Is he talking about the "centrist" that is wanting to control school bake sales? Centrist!?!?! Nanny state left-wing cradle to graver, but not a centrist by any means. Egads...

Obama gaffe prone? I disagree. Not in the 20 century history of these 57 United States has there been a more well spoken president. What with his more intelligent foreign policy we have not offended any of our allies (except for Germany, Great Britain, France, Poland, Czech Republic, Israel, Canada...)

Seriously, If Steve wanted to argue that obama governs from the center he should examine his legislative voting record. obama was THE most liberal member of the Illinois and US Senates. He hasn't changed since entering the White House.

I've lost count of how many times I've divulged the big secret to understanding Sarah Palin: just listen to her. Pay attention to what she says and writes and does. There's not only no need to try to interpret her hidden agenda or look for weasel words or loopholes or try to figure out what she "really" means, it's downright counterproductive -- it ain't there.

But when you've spent decades trying to decode the statements of the usual political class inside the beltway, you assume she's hiding something somewhere. Because she HAS to be. You dare not take her statements at face value, because when you've done that with other politicians, you've been screwed consistently.

And she HAS to be stupid, mean and vindictive, because that's what all your friends think of her.

I had an odd conversation with some inlaws over Thanksgiving - Palin's "Alaska" came up, and my sister-in-law said "I can't stand her - she's so stupid." I asked why she said that, and she replied "Everyone knows it." And my mother-in-law chimed in agreeing. Obama's great, as far as they're concerned, and again the reason is "Everyone knows it."

There's no room for questioning when 'everyone knows' something.

I don't talk politics with the family much. I'm of the opinion that political success is quantifiable, and not simply based on 'what everyone knows' or on how popular you are with the voters. It's the accomplishments that improve the quality of life that are important.

By that standard, Palin's a demonstrated success, and Obama's an abject failure.

Take Palin at face value. Read her books. Understand she's an honest politician, which is about as rare as a jackalope - and you'll understand her a lot better.

As Barry's worshipers like to say, 'He's just sooooo intelligent that he gets bored easily'.

Pity, you'd think with all that "intelligence" he'd be able to quickly resolve all the world's problems.

Guess he'd rather play golf.

So...when are you, Jay, and Steve gonna move to Hawaii and get married?

You two spend more time arguing with each other, to the exclusion of everything else, I mean, it has GOT to be foreplay. No other reason to do it.

"OH NOES! SOMEONE IS WRONG ON TEH INTARWEBZ! I must correctify them!"

This is your common philosophy, and I bet the two of you
"...like Pina Coladas
And getting caught in the rain
you're not into yoga,
you have half a brain.."
Well I am sure there will be another argument about the last line there..

Seriously, Steve is a troll and you keep feeding him the attention he wants. It is cool to keep them around, just as a reminder of the mind of the opposition but getting into debates is silly because neither he nor you share the same world view. You are not changing a single opinion of his and he will not change one of yours, right? So why bother?

It's akin to how Pat Buchanan almost entirely avoids saying things that are explicitly anti-Semitic or pro-Nazi, but the white supremacists and racists believe they get his wink and nod.)

Leaving aside, for the moment, the anti-Semitic slur; pro-Nazi? Pat Buchanan wants to round up Jews and apply the Final Solution? Or perhaps you were referring to the non-anti-Semitic aspects of the Nazi philosophy? He wants to transform the US from a capitalistic republic to a socialistic fascist one?

You are fucking delusional. Do you have any evidence for this horseshit? A link to support your libel? That you would engage in this behavior in a post where you are chastising a commenter for the very same kind of behavior towards Palin is rich.

Don't forget the new meme from the MSM. Obama is just too overwhelmed to govern effectively. I agree he is overwhelmed but not by work, but inexperience and leadership.

Palin is plain spoken. I don't even know if I would consider her a great candidate, but I do appreciate how tough she is. She went through hell from Steve Crickmore and his MSM buddies. Even her family wasn't spared. The good side? She is now a political powerhouse that does have sway over the converative movement. ww

Don't forget the new meme from the MSM. Obama is just too overwhelmed to govern effectively. I agree he is overwhelmed but not by work, but inexperience and leadership.

He is those and just plain lazy. Why do I say that? Look at what he has done when a major crisis hits. He heads straight to the golf course and gets in a quick 18, when he should be doing his job. An excellent example of what I am speaking of is during the so-called gulf oil spill crisis. Any kind of work overwhelms a lazy person.

And yet if it were a conservative president he would not be overwhelmed by an "ungovernable" nation, he would just be stupid.

What bothers me about this meme is that the left and their facilitators in the MSM are using it as an excuse to push the notion of placing some unelected officials in charge of the executive branch to actually run the country instead of the President.

Just like obama with all his czars: unelected, unconfirmed, unvetted, governing the nation by fiat circumventing the checks and balances of the constitution in order to declare the laws rather than pass them democratically.

Yeah, that's called governing from the center. WTF.

There's not only no need to try to interpret her hidden agenda or look for weasel words or loopholes or try to figure out what she "really" means, it's downright counterproductive -- it ain't there.

My dean once asked me what I meant by a letter I'd written. I told him the letter spoke for itself. He agreed, but asked me what my hidden agenda was, what I really wanted, what was on my mind. I told him there was nothing beyond what was in the letter. That was it. In black and white. No more, no less. He persisted in trying to drill down. After several iterations, he gave up in disgust. "If you won't tell me what's on your mind, I can't help." I wasn't trying to be cute; I'd said my piece in the letter, but he refused to believe it was that simple.

As Barry's worshipers like to say, 'He's just sooooo intelligent that he gets bored easily'.

The intellectually undeveloped also bore easily. Pre-schoolers arene't exactly known for their long attention spans.

As Barry's worshipers like to say, 'He's just sooooo intelligent that he gets bored easily'.

I keep hearing about Obama's intelligence, but I have never seen it. Maybe the process of hiding as much of his background as possible is a sign of intelligence, but it does not strike me as so. I have never heard Obama say anything that strayed very far from a standard talking point. I have never heard him say anything the was both true and insightful.

I get the impression that a lot of people have confused his ability to give a good speech from a teleprompter as a sign of intelligence. It is not. If you go and read his most lauded speeches, such as the one on race relations, those speeches are essentially "content free". Saying nothing well is not a sign of any particular intelligence.

"Here's a hint: whenever Obama says "..." or as I like to say "His lips are moving, he's lying again."

Sarah Palin OTOH say's what she means and does it in a clearly understandable manner that even the semisentient can understand. No hidden meanings or agenda's, no weezil words, no bullshit, unlike the (P)resident who has his puppet masters controlling his every word.

A few thoughts. I should in a perverse way feel pleased that you have singled me out, Jay, but you have my general apologies. I have had much idle time lately. Many of you are going to be relieved I start new job tomorrow. It is time, I refused to sign for unemployment benefits because I quit my last job, though I got an excellent reference.

First of all, like a lot of progressives, I`m now off the Obama bandwagon, but certainly not moving to the right with the conservatives. If anything, the WikiLeaks flap and what they revealed only enhanced my dissidence. Obviously WikiLeaks scares the hell out of politicians or msm journalists. If we knew half their dark secrets or confidences, who would get elected or have influence or access?

Obama was rated the most liberal Senator but that was his Illinois consituency in the Senate, and he didn't have to be bipartisan but partisan. Now he will triangulate like Bill Clinton.

This shouldn't be hard for Obama who doesn't care to argue or make enemies. He spends all his time trying to diasbuse the establishment or what Kristol calls 'the poliitical class,' that he as the first black president is a threat. He goes out of his way to never to be photographed or seen in a ghetto, (except during the campaign and even then), when that is the one place he could have a meaningful effect, by trying to influence single parent families that Palin or Moynihan first talked about.

Palin is the Hillary Clinton of the right, but with more personality though equally fiesty. I'm pretty sure she is vindictive. That shouldn't be too limiting but Wilhelm Nietzsche said the one characteristic of a overman/ or superman was to overcome vengeance.

Jay, this is way off topic, but I want to thank you for your comments at OTB today. You are far more calm than I have been in dealing with some of the posted opinions there.

Steve,

obama does not know how to triangulate. He was so far left that even the dems in the Illinois Senate didn't agree with his politics. They passed the Born Alive Infant Protection Act the moment he left. Yes, obama had kept a law against infanticide bottled up in committee because he believes that the right to abortion extends beyond the moment of birth.

Don't lie to me about how this fool is a centrist.

obama has never had to compromise in any position that he has ever held. He doesn't know how to. The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was an Ideological foundation and they promoted his ideological education agenda exclusively and ended up with nothing to show for the millions spent. He has never had any second thoughts on that failure. He wasted that money just like he wasted the stimulus. Millions of other people's money spent for his ideological ends producing nothing of lasting value.

obama's idea of compromise over the healthcare act was to meet with the GOP and try to embarrass them on TV. When they showed up engaged, educated and ready to talk about real issues he ran and hid. Ultimately, they had to pass he act by ramming it through the House to avoid reconciliation.

This is not triangulation. Already we are seeing that he intends to govern by executive fiat, letting the bureaucracy pass regulations that are outside the reach of Congress. This is not triangulation it is sticking to his far left agenda and trying to find new ways of getting it enacted now that Congress won't bend to his will.

Asserting that Obama is not liberal enough is like insisting Dante's Inferno is not hellish enough.

Steve,

The reason that obama does not have campaign events in inner city black neighborhood's (what you refer to as Ghettos) is because he does not need to. He knows that he will get 99% of the black vote and that they will turn out in higher numbers to support him for little reason other than the color of his skin.

He does not avoid them because he is afraid that white people will find it off putting. He does so because they are a waste of effort. He cannot get any more support there than he already gets.

As for obama not wanting to make enemies then he should seriously reconsider how he treats our allies: Snubbing Great Britain multiple times, snubbing Sarkozy multiple times, snubbing Germany and Poland and the Czech Republic. Also his supine attitude toward Russia and China as well as Iran, North Korea and muslim terrorists emboldens those enemies against us.

obama's arrogant, immensely egotistical attitude is sufficiently off-putting to alienate most foreign leaders. His high handed treatment of domestic opposition and his party apparatchiks accusing opposition of sedition for speaking out against his policies has made plenty of political enemies at home where he need not have made them.

I keep hearing about Obama's intelligence, but I have never seen it.

Neither have I. All the evidence of Obama's supposedly great intelligence I have ever seen is other progressives saying how brilliant he is. That's it. No actual objective, verifiable facts have ever been presented.

Okay, I know it's really off-topic, but...

"It is time, I refused to sign for unemployment benefits because I quit my last job, though I got an excellent reference."

Steve's comment that he'll soon have less time on his hands because he's gone and found himself a new job is really pretty funny...Unemployment benefits are not, and were never intended for people who quit their jobs. No sacrifice there. Just a comment.

I'm pretty sure she is vindictive. That shouldn't be too limiting but Wilhelm Nietzsche said the one characteristic of a overman/ or superman was to overcome vengeance.

You're "pretty sure" she is vindictive? WTF? I'm pretty sure you're a child molester. I'm pretty sure Obama is a Martian.

Is this what passes for serious thought amongst leftists? Attribute some characteristic to someone, in the total absence of evidence, and then condemn him for it?

Sheesh.

Heh. Do you have any idea how far left someone has to be to see Obama as a centrist?

Jim M is right on.

The other commenter about unemployment benefits is not correct. You can collect benefits if you quit but show good cause. Breach of promise, not in good faith, etc. ww

Oyster, Do you have any idea how far left someone has to be to see Obama as a centrist?

I have a lot of company.

President Obama's inability to stake out more strongly progressive positions on -- well, just about anything, from tax cuts, to health care reform, to foreign policy (think Afghanistan) -- is that he essentially is not a progressive Democrat but rather that extinct breed, the Rockefeller Republican. It is not quite the same thing as modern-day moderate Republicanism, because it is slightly to the left.. Obama has rarely if ever used his presidential authority for stop-loss orders to end Don't Ask/Don't Tell, and his administration appears eager to "play by the rules" and overturn the policy only with the acquiescence of Congressional Republicans. He is positively allergic to recess appointments. He never plays hardball: the Wikileaks documents show him trying to stop prosecutions of former Bush officials, a favor that the Bushies would never have returned.

On foreign policy, his principal intellectual guide appears to be Brent Scowcroft, and unsurprisingly, national security is where the good government bias ends: Obama has taken care to advance the Establishment line on things such as State Secrets and civil liberties.

The British press and commentators, a senior US official reports back to Washington, were alarmed that Mr Obama referred to America's Revolutionary War leader George Washington in his inaugural address.

Steve,

Do you realize that by quoting the site, samefacts.org, you are validating Oyster? That site could only be described as far left. Are you claiming samefacts.org is the minimum left a site might have to be to call Obama "centrist".

And yes, I read some of the entries and even found a comment by you on the King Canute piece of idiocy.

That was followed by a post by Mark Kleiman claiming Susan Collin is not a moderate, further validating Oyster.

I have to admit, I felt dirty after reading those entries and had to to delete samefacts.org from my history lest anyone ever know I went there. I do love how these people arrogantly claim they are "reality based" when even psychotics believe they are reality based. And, yes, I am arguing equivalence.

The second flaw is, Obama is simply not "governing as a centrist." Obama is a hard-left idealogue, and tries to govern like that. But what happens is he doesn't realize when he's overreaching and gets his wrist slapped.

The level of delusion in this paragraph is beyond comprehension. No Jaytea. He is not a hard left Ideologue. He is a centrist. The right has a neat trick they do. Every time their is a democratic president they move much further to the right from were they previously were and demand Democrats meet them in the middle (the old right 2 years ago.) Obama's healthcare plan was in essense a Republican one. Heck the Nixon administration wanted to use one just like it. He never pushed for single payer(that would have been a far left position on the matter.) instead pushing for a public option (what you call overreaching polled favorably at 70%) He has kept us in Afghanistan, has not closed Gitmo, Is extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy (the part that polls show Americans don't want.) Pushed for the 250 bilion in tax cuts that were part of the stimulus for the sake of compromise. The man is a centrist. That is reality.

The level of delusion in this paragraph is beyond comprehension. No Jaytea. He is not a hard left Ideologue. He is a centrist. The right has a neat trick they do. Every time their is a democratic president they move much further to the right from were they previously were and demand Democrats meet them in the middle

You are kidding, right? The only thing centrist about Obama is he ran in the primary to the left of Hillary, but in the general he pretended to be a moderately left of center Democrat. In any poll of the country, Obama would be considered far to the left of "moderately left". Running a $1.5 trillion deficit is not centrist. Nothing about this health care bill is centrist. You are claiming because it was not even further out there to the left, we should consider it centrist. No, we shouldn't. In fact, it was a sign of being far left to ignore the economy in favor of government control of the heath care system.

There is nothing at all centrist about Obama. He has only reneged on what you think were his promises on Afghanistan, Iraq, and Guantanamo because it is now clear to him he can do nothing else and still maintain the security of the country. The idea of trying terrorist is criminal courts has now blown up. Taking GM from the senior bondholders and giving it to the UAW is far left.

The list of far left actions goes on and on. As Oyster said, the only way anyone can claim Obama is centrist is by living in Fantasyland. It is only the far left who would even try to claim Obama is centrist. That meme will never fly. All it means is that Obama is not as far left as a handful of far leftists, but that is only because he cannot get what he really wants through Congress.

You are kidding, right?

No. Not even close to a leftist. That's just a label the far right throws out to try to make the center look like it is further to the right than it is. Again 70% of this country was in favor of a pubic option. He didn't overreach. The country certainly doesn't want him in Afghanistan. Nor does the country want tax cuts for the wealthy. yet he caved on both. So the whole idea he overreached and had to backtrack is just flawed.

As No. Not even close to a leftist.

Well, it just goes to show that you can call anyone who does not mirror your philosophy whatever you want. I judge Obama not only by what he supports and what his agenda would look like if he could get his way, but also by his appointments. Van Jones was a perfect exampleL a former communist Eric Holder is only interested in enforcing some laws and got creamed on the civilian trial issue. Both Sibelius and Napolitano are big government people. LaHood is a moron who wants to disable cell phones in cars. The FCC not only wants to ignore the courts, but force all end users to pay for system upgrades to provide streaming video to those who want that function. The FCC also wants to preempt the FEC and control speech, particularly campaign speech, on the internet.

We have been "treated" to an administration that wants to give more and more control over our lives to the government. Cap and Trade and a Kyoto follow on are on the agenda if Obama has his way. Everything is about more government power, more government spending, and more government taxing. Where I come from, that is called the far left. Just because Obama has been slowed down does not change his stripes. he is still a zebra, not a horse.

The country certainly doesn't want him in Afghanistan. Nor does the country want tax cuts for the wealthy. yet he caved on both. So the whole idea he overreached and had to backtrack is just flawed.

First rule of command: Never give an order you know will not be carried out.