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Torn

Yep... that's me at the moment on the expected decision by the Pentagon to relieve Capt. Owen Honors of his command of the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise:

Capt. Owen Honors will be relieved of duty Tuesday as commander of the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise after he broadcast sexually charged videos taken aboard the ship, a senior U.S. defense official told Fox News.

Navy officials said Honors will not be kicked out of the service, though it is possible later on, pending results of a longer investigation, that he could be asked to leave the Navy. It's also possible he'll be reassigned without any possibility of promotion, effectively ending his career. In that scenario it is likely he would decide to retire.

The videos, distributed on closed-circuit television during 2006 and 2007 deployments of the USS Enterprise, the Navy's oldest nuclear-powered submarine, showed simulated masturbation, suggestive shower scenes with multiple women and gay slurs.

The Virginia-Pilot newspaper broke the story, publishing edited versions of the lewd videos on its website.

The videos are "clearly inappropriate," Navy spokesman Commander Chris Sims told Fox News on Monday. "Production of videos, like the ones produced four to five years ago on USS Enterprise... were not acceptable then and are not acceptable in today's Navy.

But they were acceptable then apparently... they were widely distributed then... there were no secrets if it's true the videos were made available to the over 5,000 men and women on board ship... and this guy was later promoted.

This smacks once again of political correctness. 

Clearly the guy used poor judgment but why wasn't it a firable offense back then and why, after the fact, nearly 4 years later, is it now?

This is crap... crap foisted on the Navy by leftists hell bent on emasculating the country's warriors.  Yes, what he did was less than honorable but when balanced against his performance overall, it's seems to be overkill to relieve the man of his command.  And what will it do to the morale of those currently serving under him?

It all just smells funny and on the heels of the DADT repeal, it smacks of politics.

And I suspect, this is just the beginning.

The transformation of America continues.

Thoughts?


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Comments (41)

It "smacks of politics"?</p... (Below threshold)
Trump:

It "smacks of politics"?

Well, duh!

Once you get up to command level, it is indeed all internal politics. As it has always been since day 1.

"What will it do to the morals of those serving under him?"

Who knows? We do know that since there have been complaints - as the Captain himself acknowledged - at least some will be happy. I don't think you can take for granted that this will have a negative impact morale-wise.

Bottom line - being captain of a war boat in wartime requires top judgement. This guy obviously has made some decisions that call his judgement into question. He should've known better.

First paragraph, ship calle... (Below threshold)
Edward Sisson:

First paragraph, ship called aircraft carrier -- correct.

Third paragraph, same ship called submarine -- What? WRONG

The idiot journalists and editors who let this pass have no military background at all.

FYI: my dad was a nuclear submarine captain. His dad was an aircraft carrier captain. So I tend to notice this kind of error.

"Clearly the guy used po... (Below threshold)
Woop:

"Clearly the guy used poor judgment but why wasn't it a firable offense back then and why, after the fact, nearly 4 years later, is it now?"

Because back then now one was being held accountable to the public for this action. Now, in the light of day, they are.

Oh, and there's a black man in the white house too. I'm sure that has something to do with it.

I don't know how bad these ... (Below threshold)
mag:

I don't know how bad these videos were. And I have never been in the military so I don't know what they do to blow off steam...as long as they keep me safe, let them have their fun.
I will say that P.C. will kill this country, one step at a time. I say the rest us stop giving in to P.C. If there is enough of us, what are they going to do? I don't mean to hurt or belittle people, but stop the foolishness.

"And I suspect, this is jus... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"And I suspect, this is just the beginning."

I suspect you're correct - there's a lot of revenge to be taken. First, it'll be 4-year old videos. Then, 10 year old, then 15... then someone will recall (insert name here) was making gay slurs and jokes back 20, 30 years back... and the PC folks will sharpen their knives.

For the politically correct, the past is never past.

From what I have seen of th... (Below threshold)
Stan:

From what I have seen of this vids, they aren't as bad the daily soap operas and prime time sitcoms. In movie theaters, these vids would receive a PG rating. Blame the femazis for this mess that has been made of our military. Time to get some senior military officers that don't give a shit about being politically correct and straighten things out. George Patton is rolling over in his grave.

"Because back then now one ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Because back then now one was being held accountable to the public for this action. Now, in the light of day, they are."

Hey Woop, you fucking asshole. Your messiah has been in the White House for two years. What took so long? Too many hours on the golf links?

As for Honor. It's okay for gays 'to get in your face'. Honor does it from a different direction and it's a hanging offense.

Wonder what the outcome would have been if Honor claimed to be gay?

Silence?

"...crap foisted on the ... (Below threshold)

"...crap foisted on the Navy by leftists hell bent on emasculating the country's warriors."

A tad overwrought, perhaps? Since when did making such jokes and videos become a requirement to prove one isn't emasculated? Do I likewise have to crack racist jokes to prove I'm a real man?

The real questions are (1) what I call the Michael Vick question, whether this is so bad that he needs to be relieved and irregardless of how good he is at his job, (I say no), and (2) whether his lapse in judgment calls into question whether he truly has the smarts and skill to be in charge, something along the lines of 'if he screws up like this in relative peacetime, can we really count on him to keep his cool when somebody starts shooting at him? (I don't know, but I would doubt it).

this is all about the anti-... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

this is all about the anti-gay slurs ... nothing else ...

steve @ 8"relative... (Below threshold)
SicSemperTyrannus:

steve @ 8

"relative peacetime"? What choo talkin' 'bout, Willis?

Aircraft from USS Enterprise were launching air strikes in Iran and Afghanistan during this deployment.

The deployment in which the videos were created was between May 2, 2006 and on November 18, 2006 USS Enterprise returned to homeport after steaming nearly 60,000 miles. During their deployment, CVW-1 aircraft delivered 65,000 pounds of ordnance, including 137 precision weapons, to provide unprecedented support of Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) and Operation Iraqi Freedom. They completed more than 8,300 sorties, of which 2,186 were combat missions, while flying more than 22,500 hours and making 6,916 day and night arrested landings.

See Information Dissemination for article.

God forbid any Polliwog/Shellback videos surface!

SicSemperTyrannus: with the... (Below threshold)

SicSemperTyrannus: with the exception of the pilots, nobody on the carrier was getting shot at, so for them, including the Captain, I'll stand by my 'relative peacetime' comment.

And so it begins.... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:

And so it begins. One is left to wonder how many more career people will be sacrificed on the altar of PC.

*spit*

While all of this noise abo... (Below threshold)
PIle of Pooh:

While all of this noise about Captain Honors could possibly be generated at a very high level for some high-minded liberal political purpose, I tend to doubt it. Instead, I smell Navy politics.

You wouldn't believe how nasty these officers and so-called "gentlemen" can get when a flag-grade promotion is on the line. I think it's more likely that Honors is in the window for a star, and one of the other 0-6 types is pulling in some favors to eliminate a competitor via a smear campaign. Elected politicians are rank amateurs (pardon the pun) next to real pros like flag officers. People with stars on their shoulders and collars didn't get them because they are nice (or even competent, in some cases); they got them because they play dirty better than anyone else. Remember, there are fewer active flag officers than there are US Senators and Representatives. Those are very prestigious and coveted positions.

Here, I'll give you an example. Look at this from the article:

"It was a bad year for commanding officers in 2010. The Navy Times reported that 17 COs were fired last year for conduct unbecoming of an officer -- the second highest number of firings in a decade."

Allow me to translate into RealMil: 17 potential flag officer candidates lost first-round bouts due to poor political connections and were eliminated from contention.

All I'm saying is, the real explanation may be a bit more seedy and unsatisfying than you suspect. Never assign to conspiracy that which can be more simply explained by greed.

SicSemper, Still g... (Below threshold)
Pile of Pooh:

SicSemper,

Still got my card!

I've often thought that it would be very beneficial for many civilians I've known to get shellbacked. It'd knock some of the arrogance and pomp out of them, anyway.

"...nobody on the carrier w... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"...nobody on the carrier was getting shot at, so for them, including the Captain, I'll stand by my 'relative peacetime' comment."

Work a flight deck in the Arabian Gulf in summer and tell me what a swell vacation those men are having. Then throw in the ever-present danger of working amongst moving aircraft in a confined area. No danger there either.

When is Barry going to be d... (Below threshold)
914:

When is Barry going to be demoted for conduct unbecoming a US citizen? That is, if He is one?

woop-"Oh, and ther... (Below threshold)
914:

woop-

"Oh, and there's a black man in the white house too. I'm sure that has something to do with it."


Thanks for coming. A thread wouldn't be complete without a race baiter.

Every news report on NPR to... (Below threshold)
Alan:

Every news report on NPR today has mentioned the gay slurs as the first offense. If the repeal of DADT had not passed I doubt we would be hearing about this.

And so it begins Tailhook ... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

And so it begins Tailhook part II after many carrier Sailors and officers are sacked. Someone will admit it was an over reaction meant to embarrass the US NAVY. However this time we see the Combat forces of the Army and Marines targeted because they did not support lifting the Ban on Homosexuals in the military.

GF: where do you find any r... (Below threshold)

GF: where do you find any reference (explicit or implicit) to 'vacation'? they don't have it easy in an absolute sense, no one is arguing they do, but only an idiot would fail to realize they have it a whole lot easier than if someone was shooting at them.

914: "A thread wouldn't ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

914: "A thread wouldn't be complete without a race baiter"

truedat. Where baiting is the topic, Woop is a master. He practices every chance he gets, whether in public or - as usual - all by himself.

Steve you have absolutely n... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Steve you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. An air craft carrier that is in active deployment is a very tightly orchestrated system. The pressure may eventually be on the pilots but it is the crew that prep's and launches the jets and well as another team assisting in the landing. Very stressful all the way around. They need and crave stress relief when off duty and sometimes that vent is misplaced but that is what I think they did in this case.

Also, I thought all the "brass" said there will be no problem with service men and women is DADT is repealed. I think the higher ups lied. There is a problem. ww

#13 has a ring of truth to ... (Below threshold)
epador:

#13 has a ring of truth to it.

I'm not torn at all. Pretty... (Below threshold)
JDL:

I'm not torn at all. Pretty poor actions from a High ranking officer let alone anyone in our Navy. If you have seen any of the video you would understand the need for his removal.

I am a very strong supporter of our military, but this was not a very good display of our fine fighting men and women for the world to see.

I've seen and heard parts o... (Below threshold)
epador:

I've seen and heard parts of this, it was brazenly politically incorrect and did make some people feel uncomfortable. But folks, there is stuff like this all over the Navy, and it is famous for it. The other branches have their own flavor of political incorrectness humor that would not make it in the civilian world. It appears to be a sneaky way to politically remove him using politically acceptable methods of those with a certain political agenda. He could have just as easily been passed over and let retire quietly. Instead, he is being removed in a way that sends a loud beacon over the Fleet. Just what we need - commanders even more concerned about their career versus what keeps their people happy and productive, blowing off steam and dealing with the frustrations of their jobs, and effective and assertive war-fighters.

I have not seen one iota of evidence that this childish set of videos weakened the Enterprise's fighting effectiveness before the removal of this officer.

WW: I get it, life in the m... (Below threshold)

WW: I get it, life in the military ain't easy, but I repeat, no matter how stressful life on a carrier is right now, it has to be somewhat easier than if they were being shot at. Or are you suggesting that getting shot at doesn't increase the stress level?

This does smack of politics... (Below threshold)
yttik:

This does smack of politics and political correctness. What is the "breaking news" here?? That sailors cuss like sailors? It's the Navy! Of course they're going to act like....sailors. Nobody was targeted in these films, nobody was personally attacked, nobody died, nobody killed themselves, nobody resigned. It was just comedy, a morale booster, camaraderie.

Watching these decisions re... (Below threshold)
clearmind:

Watching these decisions reminds me of Congress voting on health care. Didn't know what's going on and don't care. Those making the decision are so far removed from motivating combatants no matter what they do will be the wrong as long as it looks politically correct.

And I suspect, this is j... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

And I suspect, this is just the beginning.
The transformation of America continues

The American culture began to change forty years ago, it is only now that conservatives even those navy leadership are starting to realize you should treat all people with respect, even those in their service who are different from them.

It is odd that in these old frat boy style of videos, bullies make women and gays their easy targets, but odd that they never make fun of other bullies...I wonder why...probably because it would be too dangerous and threatening to their personal safety?

Steve you're "moving the go... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Steve you're "moving the goalposts" so debating is useless. Read what you originally said. ww

'moving goalposts'? ... (Below threshold)
steve:

'moving goalposts'?

"moving the goalposts"</... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

"moving the goalposts"
ww, that was my first comment, but the goalposts of what is acceptable for public humour for most Americans, clearly moved a long time ago. It is just that the Navy and the John McCain's of the world are the last to know. This episode also shows how useless DADT was; that someone's sexual orientation was his personal business. Owen Honors was clearly asking and telling at the same time.

On seeing this a second tim... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

On seeing this a second time, if the videos were meant to be send-up-there is so much bleeping out, it is hard to tell- that is just questionable taste and not a firing offense, but if caused a lot of tension discomfort and distress to some, then it is clearly more serious and worthy of disciplinary action.
The interesting thing is what did Honors' superiors do when they found out about this..Probably nothing until the press reported it.

The new Navy motto:J... (Below threshold)
Hrothgar:

The new Navy motto:
Join the Navy and see the world, unless you are a warrior! Because, as we all know in our hearts, only Yale and Harvard nancy boys really know how to fight, run a combat command, and write letters to the families of the deceased.

What amazes me is that our ... (Below threshold)
fastfreefall:

What amazes me is that our elected officials are guilty of much worse (not paying taxes?) and they keep their posts. WTF? The sheepdogs keep getting kicked around. Makes me sick.

Blame the media. Videos ar... (Below threshold)
Howie:

Blame the media. Videos are made all the time and shown at Foc'sle Follies, which many of the same jokes. He was fired because the media is involved and the Navy had to do something. Fag is becoming the new N-word, while Bitch is becoming widely accepted. Don't go against the thought police.

Would someone, Baghdad Gibs... (Below threshold)
914:

Would someone, Baghdad Gibsy perhaps, let Barry know he is not in Chithugo anymore. We dont care what he thinks and he needs to be relieved of command. enough of the tarded nansy pansy leftwits.

This reminds me of the <a h... (Below threshold)

This reminds me of the off-color San Francisco 49ers "training video" from a few years back. I said back then, that if a similar skit had been performed on Saturday Night Live or an uncensored HBO/Showtime-type comedy show, the press buzz would be all about what a great parody it was. I think the same thing holds true for this video. There is clearly one set of "standards" for liberals and entertainers (e.g. Sandra Bernhard's 10 minute profanity and obscenity laced rant against George Bush), and another set of standards for everyone else (e.g. George Allen's "macaca" fiasco).

Now we are all PC since DAD... (Below threshold)
MikeNC:

Now we are all PC since DADT repeal. Here is another oddly timed result of the repeal.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmoral/articles/20110104.aspx

I am sure this will work out well.

THIS JUST IN;SecNa... (Below threshold)
Olsoljer:

THIS JUST IN;

SecNav has requested Congress subpoena the subscription information from Maxim, Playboy, Playgirl, and Hustler for the past 20 years. Any member of the Navy included on the subscription list will be processed for discharge for "conduct unbecoming". Additionally, those who possess, or admit to having watched a pornographic movie, will be similiarily, as will those who have had sex outside of marriage.

In an additional release, SecNav (tendering his resignation) has indicated the entire US Navy will be disbanded within the year,

Olsoljer glad it is just th... (Below threshold)

Olsoljer glad it is just the Navy, when we finished our training we picked up a subscription to Playboy for our DI. Wouldn't want to see that nasty son of a bitch get into any trouble although I'm sure he is long retired :)

I really don't give a shit what anybody say about this unless they have been in the military. Hell, I agree with Heinlein and you people without military service shouldn't even get to vote. Since that ain't gonna happen, I'll just go with ignoring anything you've got to say regarding the military.




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