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12 year old girl stabbed by lone man in Texas McDonalds

Given this post as context, I'm compelled to ask... can someone tell me why Michelle Obama isn't in jail?

A young girl is in the hospital after she was stabbed Monday evening at a College Station fast food restaurant, the same location where a robbery occurred earlier that day.

College Station police responded to the McDonald's in the 100 block of George Bush Drive where a man reportedly stabbed a 12-year-old girl standing by the exit door as he was leaving just before 7:30 p.m.

The victim was transported to the College Station Medical Center where she is in stable condition.

The suspect fled on foot, but has not been located since. He is described as being between 20 and 25-years-old, between 5-foot-7 and 5-foot-10, with a medium to heavy build. He was last seen wearing light colored denim jeans, a dark colored hoodie jacket, white tennis shoes with black markings, and a black baseball cap with a "P."

We're all aware of the First Lady's war on obesity, and I'm sure if we do some digging, we'd find that she's used militaristic terms to in some way get her message across and that this thug, as a result, was unduly pressured to attack the innocent in an eating establishment guilty of being on the wrong side of Ms. Obama's conflict.

And so, given the logic employed by so many Leftists, by so many in the media, I ask again...  why isn't Michelle Obama in jail?

Hmmm?


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Comments (90)

Rick... (Facepalm.... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Rick...

(Facepalm.)

No. Just - no. Let's really not go there, okay?

It just... no.

Good question? But then, t... (Below threshold)
914:

Good question? But then, the left has no logic. Just "feelings" and "good intentions". Which we all know are as hollow as ole' jug ears promises.

And the attack was on Georg... (Below threshold)
Sean P:

And the attack was on George Bush Avenue. Clearly the attacker was provoked by all the inflammatory anti-Bush rhetoric from MSNBC and MoveOn. I'm sure George Soros, Keith Olbermann, et al. will turn themselves in immediately.

This analogy just doesn't w... (Below threshold)
warchild:

This analogy just doesn't work.

It would have kind of worked if it had been a McDonald's employee who was stabbed, at least then it would sort of make sense. (assuming of course you found Michelle Obama comments attacking fast food corporations for killing our kids and destroying America.) Then at least we would have a logical link between rhetoric that targeted something and a violent action as a result.

Unluckily for you though, Michelle Obama has not blamed 12 year old kids for obesity, so Uhh, your analogy kinda breaks down.

You might consider just using a hypothetical situation, for the purpose of the argument or you can look harder for a scenario that actually involves targeted rhetoric and a case of violence occurring. Even on a small scale you could make your point. Using a false analogy though just undermines your credibility.

Shut up war infant! Go suck... (Below threshold)
914:

Shut up war infant! Go suck on your rattle!

Rick,"given the lo... (Below threshold)
Hank:

Rick,

"given the logic employed by so many Leftists"

Oxymoron alert.

Other than that, I'm with JLawson. Best not to even go there. Wrestling with pigs and all that, you know.

Hamburgers and Happy Meals ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Hamburgers and Happy Meals will kill you. ;) ww

Shut up war infant! Go suck... (Below threshold)
warchild:

Shut up war infant! Go suck on your rattle!
-----
Go suck something else.

For those expressing concer... (Below threshold)
Rick Author Profile Page:

For those expressing concern with the post... think Rush Limbaugh's axiom of pointing out absurdity by being absurd...

And yes, he's better at it than I am but still...

For those expressing concer... (Below threshold)
warchild:

For those expressing concern with the post... think Rush Limbaugh's axiom of pointing out absurdity by being absurd...

And yes, he's better at it than I am but still..
---------------
I tend to stay away from anything Rush Limbaugh says. I certainly don't think of any of his foolishness as axiomatic.

What you posted is a valid discussion question. You just messed up the analogy.

warchild,the major... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

warchild,

the majority of victims in Tucson where not politicians or judges but innocents ...

I suspect the child who was stabbed was simply an innocent bystander in the war on obesity ...

warchild,the major... (Below threshold)
warchild:

warchild,

the majority of victims in Tucson where not politicians or judges but innocents ...

I suspect the child who was stabbed was simply an innocent bystander in the war on obesity ...
----------------------

They weren't the target though, that's why the analogy breaks down.

obviously the stabber was i... (Below threshold)
retired military:

obviously the stabber was inspired to hatred by the fact that he was on George Bush drive. Now no knifes will be allowed in McDonalds and Congress will introduce legislation against lone men going to McDonalds to safeguard the population.

Is this the same Rick who w... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Is this the same Rick who was an ex-semanarian?It is hard to believe; being a conservative blogger, with your natural sense of what is satire, suits you much better.

But surely this fondness for guns and firing them and showing off by the tea party, particularly by Palin-she glow$ in the attention and celebrity
(until)- is so adolescent! even if she doesn't even seem very knowledgeble or comfortable with guns on her reality show. The subtext of Palin is not that she incites violence but that her followers will intimidate you, if you dare threaten the crown jewel in the constitution, the second amendment, kind of shows what interests them most. Any idiot, with the emotional IQ of five year old, it seems in America can go out and buy one, a semi-automatic.- a glock 19 with a huge magazine clip is a great equalizer for anyone, fat chance, that would dare report him. By all means, preserve that right!

CreekmoreBlow it o... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Creekmore

Blow it out your ass. Maybe if whining liberals like yourself actually believed in PUNISHING GUILTY People then maybe we wouldnt have the gun violence we do have.

After all conservatives want people who commit crimes with and without guns PUNISHED.

Liberals want to make excuses on why they shouldnt be.

I know dozens of people who own guns and who dont go shooting them into crowds. Why should their rights be infringed upon by one nutcase. After all if a nutcase cant get a gun then that surely wont stop them from committing violence.

Steve Crickmore wrote:... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Steve Crickmore wrote:

By all means, preserve that right!

I assume you are equally troubled by the fact that your president also supports the right of individuals to own guns.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=d8uqtas80&show_article=1

And so, given the ... (Below threshold)
Eric:
And so, given the logic employed by so many Leftists, by so many in the media, I ask again... why isn't Michelle Obama in jail?

Because the logic employed by the Left is poor and your analogy is worse. Trying to apply the same standard as the Left on this one is not an efficient use of time and energy. The Left is losing this fight (again) because they yet (again) overreached and end up looking stupid.

Their whole premise, that Sarah Palin, Fox News and the Tea Party are to blame because of extremist rhetoric, looks stupid, infantile and hypocritical based on the NUMEROUS previous statements and actions by many many Democrats. Also, the fact that this guy appears to be more Left wing as opposed to Right wing doesn't help their cause.

CreekmoreBy your l... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Creekmore

By your logic we should ban all knives.

Wait. Some madman ran over somebody with a car. Well Ban all cars.

Wait Some mad man stabbed someone with a pencil. Lets Ban all pencils.

How far do you go to protect little Stevie from all the crazies in the world.

Creekmore"The subt... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Creekmore

"The subtext of Palin is not that she incites violence but that her followers will intimidate you, if you dare threaten"


What about "They bring a knife we bring a gun"?

What about "Get in their faces"

The above two were spoken by your bud Obama. I see you put Palin in the mix but you didnt mention Obama who explicitedly told his followers to GET GUNS!!!!.

What about "I hate all crackers"?

Liberal Logic. What a freaking oxymoron.

Be sure to stay in your Cocoon.

And remember Stevie

Islamic crazies used planes to kill thousands of people. Where is the liberal cry to ban all planes??


<a href="http://www.kxxv.co... (Below threshold)
retired military:

http://www.kxxv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13821939

UPDATE: Elderly man killed after struck by pickup truck in Temple


Hey Steve. Now is your chance.

Lets ban all trucks.


You MORON.

The message I'm getting is ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

The message I'm getting is give up...while we go out out way to stop any hint of Islamic terrorism. Perhaps we could have a data pool as we do for terrorists suspects; people with psychotic tendencies who have runs-in with their schools would eliminate many of them. Almost all of of these young creeps have had a history of violent incidents with the schools they attended ala Virgina Tech shooter, before they can own a gun at the age of 21 as in Arizona. That might be a start. Right now they are falling between the cracks of the criminal and officially mentally ill and not being picked up on any data bank.

"Perhaps we could have a da... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

"Perhaps we could have a data pool" Steve Crickmore

Assuming you are being serious and not just trying to get out from under the boulder you find you've brought down upon you, mean a list of "troubled" people. Kind of like the No Fly list. Certainly the No Fly list has been demonstrated to be all we've come to expect from a bureaucratically administered list. Is that what you really want?

Great logic, and you are ex... (Below threshold)
Marco Polo:

Great logic, and you are exactly right. Especially if Michelle Obama singled out 20 fats kids, identified them by name, put crosshairs on their pictures, and put bloodstains on the 3 fat kids who retired.

Really? Is that all you got?

Creekmore said"...... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Creekmore said

"...while we go out out way to stop any hint of Islamic terrorism"

Just dont mention the word Islam when talking about trying to stop the terrorism.

"people with psychotic tendencies who have runs-in with their schools would eliminate many of them "

You obviously want the ACLU on your ass for violating their constitutional rights. I mean after all you have people who have IQs in their 30s whom are "assisted" in voting by Moveon.org members why cant people who havent committed violent crimes have guns. A lot of these folks would have been committed 40 years ago but then the ACLU stepped in and said "HEy they havent done anything wrong, you cant commit them".

The sad fact is that any nu... (Below threshold)
retired military:

The sad fact is that any nutball can go out and commit crimes and just have to say "Sarah Palin made me do it" or whoever the targetted (oooh dare I say that word) conservative of the day happens to be (Newt Gingrich, George Bush, etc etc) and they will get an entire political party supporting them while they go to trial. They will be assured their 15+ minutes of fame and then like Cindy Sheehan be thrown on the scrap heap of people used by the democratic party.


"Right now they are falling... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Right now they are falling between the cracks of the criminal and officially mentally ill and not being picked up on any data bank."

So you're saying that the mentally ill should just be 'carded'? By who?

Right now it requires a finding by a court. How many "mentally ill" are there in this country that bear watching? How long does it take to get a case before a judge? We already know a civil case takes years. Criminal cases, with a wavier, can take 90 days - and longer if additional waivers are granted.

I'm guessing that there would be a whole new branch of attorney specialty that would spring up.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but I do know that the liberal approach of the last 45 years hasn't worked. Funny, the same people who screwed up the mental health care system just "improved" the medical care delivery system.

<a href="http://ww... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:
Give me me a break! As a former licensed gun dealer, I have processed over 1000 4473's, the federal background check used when selling a firearm. First, no one admits to being adjudicated mentally ill. I can, and have, refused to transact with people who were clearly "a danger to themselves or others". However, after the mass murders at VA Tech, a federal database was supposed to be set up. The operative word here is "supposed". It is the climate of political correctness that prevails. All the civil libertarians believe that it is discrimanatory to do anything less than cater to this privileged class. I can cite case after case where flagrantly mentally ill people killed with a firearm, even after instances of obtaining guns that had been confiscated by LE due to their serious mental illness, and there is no oversight until they kill, and then there is a lot of handwringing and buck passing. I believe the safety of society trumps the privacy of an armed nut. It someone Baker Acts you, and you are adjuged mentally ill, you lose your 2nd Amendment rights. Period.
You can always appeal, if you are not mentally ill.
Our last line of defense. F... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Our last line of defense. Figures society, in reality, including politicians, second amendment advocates, doctors and the police pass the buck, and leave it up to licensed gun dealers to make the crucial decison, within a few moments, whether a person has the capacity to be a homicidal maniac or not?

Stevie - your last two entr... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Stevie - your last two entries make no sense at all.

Anyone notice a vital piece... (Below threshold)
dnb:

Anyone notice a vital piece of information missing from the suspect's description. Without it, it will take a while longer to apprehend him.

Garandfan I dare you to fin... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Garandfan I dare you to find any sense in any of Crickmore's posts. The only thing they have going for them is their verbage is better than Lee (He whose name shall not be spoken) Ward's post. But that isnt saying much.

What I'm saying with all so... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

What I'm saying with all society's best intentions, in reality, it is up to the gun dealer, whom we pay 15 dollars and hour to act as our gatekeeper, to act in an arbitrary manner, maybe illegally to protect the public interest. That is all we can hope for? Who is going to spend the money and time and expend the stress to take a disturbed Loughner to court and have him ajudicated as mentally ill, even if he obviously is, but has committed no serious crime? I'm starting to be as resigned as all of you, that there is nothing we can do, and that is depressing.

I have a couple of friends ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

I have a couple of friends who own gun shops. I'll bet they'd like to introduce Stevie to the wonderful wacky world of ATF.

You buy a gun, fill out a form, answer questions, several of which, answering 'yes', would preclude you from owning a firearm. You sign the form under penalty of perjury. Yet our wonderful courts have held that lying on the form is acceptable, since you have a right 'not to testify against yourself'. Alice in Wonderland anyone?

"...in reality, it is up to... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"...in reality, it is up to the gun dealer, whom we pay 15 dollars and hour to act as our gatekeeper."

No Steve, we don't "pay" him an hourly rate. He's in business for himself - complying with the laws and regulations as written. He is SUPPOSED to sniff out the 'straw man' purchases, keep records for years, detect fraudulent identification, and ultimately REFUSE to make a sale if he thinks something is not right.

All those things he is SUPPOSED to do are requirements of the law AND 'such regulations as deemed necessary'. In actuality, he's an UNPAID arm of the government. And there are fewer and fewer people today willing to get into that line of work.

Crickmore"What I'm... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Crickmore

"What I'm saying with all society's best intentions, in reality, it is up to the gun dealer, whom we pay 15 dollars and hour to act as our gatekeeper, to act in an arbitrary manner, maybe illegally to protect the public interest"

How much do jail guards make whom are the first line of defense from convicted murderers, rapists, thieves, and drug dealers?>

How much should gun dealers make?

Should everyone have to undergo a mental examination to buy a gun??

You do realize that I could probably kill and injure more people than this nutball did with about 200 gallons of gasoline, 50 pounds of nails, a timer and a way to light the gas on fire? All that and I would spend less money than most guns cost.

Hell, if I wanted to I could take 2 samurai swords out in a crowded shopping mall and I bet my body count would be higher this guys.

All someone needs is a motive, a means and the willingness to accept the consequences. That's it.

Want to learn how to make napalm? You can find it on the internet. Want a silencer? THere are dozens of guides you can legally buy.

Look what 4 guys did with boxcutters and hijacking a plane.


Taking away the public limelight and given them a swift execution is the best deterent from the idiots who want to make a statement. Man has killed man for thousands of years. If you take away the motive of most nuts (fame and their name in lights) and stop making excuses for them than the problem will almost stop itself.

Steve, So what oth... (Below threshold)
Harmon:

Steve,

So what other rights should be given away in the name of public safety? It seems that the Second amendment is out. What about the First? All that hate speech you know. Or the Fourth? It would sure make looking for those bad guns that randomly go around shooting people easier to find. Or maybe the Fifth? A little torture should go a long way to making the trials of those hate speakers and bad gun types a lot easier to put away.

So how about it? What else should we give up? Or do you only want to do away with those rights you personally choose not to exercise? I would really like to know are you a fool or a hypocrite?

"Who is going to spend the ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Who is going to spend the money and time and expend the stress to take a disturbed Loughner to court and have him adjudicated as mentally ill, even if he obviously is, but has committed no serious crime?"

My gut reaction is HIS FAMILY - the people who know him. Yet the stigma keeps many from doing so. Cho's family knew he was nuts. Loughner's family probably did as well.

The problem is that LIBERALS appear to throw up all sorts of roadblocks to WAREHOUSING people who are a continuing threat or cannot care for themselves. After all, "they've got rights!". Yeah. Right up to and including NOT taking medication. The only time they are warehoused (read State Prison) is AFTER they've committed a crime.

That's what I figured. It i... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

That's what I figured. It is probably illegal to incriminate yourself as well. So the only fitness test is if you can read and understand English, unless you can fill out forms in another language. I guess that is better than nothing. At least we won't have completely illiterate homicidial maniacs on the loose with semi-automatics.

Just like a lib Steve. You... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Just like a lib Steve. You want to appear to do something about a problem. The solution is immaterial as long as you look like you are doing SOMETHING.

BTW Steve, tell me. What i... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW Steve, tell me. What is the difference between the Congresswoman who got shot and the thousand or so unborn babies who died today? Oh yeah, one is a democrat.

A glance at the crime scene... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

A glance at the crime scene photos shows that the nubjob could have done as much damage by driving a rented truck into the Congresswoman or throwing some Molotov cocktails. Or, for that matter, by filling the truck up with easily obtained explosive material ala McVeigh. Should we require mental health evals to rent trucks or to buy ammonium nitrate or gasoline? No one has ever said that living in a free society would always be perfectly safe.

Take a look at the Bill of Rights. Every word has to do with preventing the government from doing something that governments tend to do but must not do if we are to live free.

There's a reason that Madison and Jefferson and those guys included the Second Amendment. They actually thought it through. It's a part of the overall scheme to limit the government's ability to suppress the rights of the individual citizen.

Steve Crickmore, either repeal the 2nd Amendment, or move somewhere else.

"At least we won't have com... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"At least we won't have completely illiterate homicidal maniacs on the loose with semi-automatics."

Sorry to bust your bubble, but the one's I dealt with STOLE the firearms or traded drugs/money with those who did the stealing. Guess they didn't believe in filling out forms.

Maybe we should pass some more laws...oh, wait, STEALING is already against the law. Never mind.

Hey GarandfanCan y... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hey Garandfan

Can you imagine the outrage and indignation that would be shown by the left if someone on the right actually suggested that all women who were going to get an abortion has to undergo testing by a psycharitrist? I mean they want to kill a baby. But yet this nutjob tried to kill a dem congresswoman and Steve is suggesting that everyone who wants to buy a gun has to get mental health clearance.

Grandfan, you are probably ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Grandfan, you are probably right liberals began demanding that they empty the psychiatric hospitals and asylums in the 60's and 70's because they thought 'the community' could look after them better.
In Arizona, and other states they are tightening the belt and reducing public services and releasing even more mental patients now.

Harron, actually I'm not looking for very much-just get the dangerous people off the street- period, whether you put or keep them in jail, or a hospital for a very long that and that is what we as a society and our public authorities should be concentrating on, our safety first and foremost.

"No one has ever said that ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"No one has ever said that living in a free society would always be perfectly safe."

No iwog, libs want a PERFECTLY risk-free society with no consequences for choices you freely made.

SteveSo who decide... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

So who decides who is "dangerous"?

Maybe I feel that any woman who goes to get an abortion is contemplating murder so they are considered dangerous.

It seems that libs only want to go by their standards and what they think.

retired miltary. I didn't s... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

retired miltary. I didn't suggest it but now that you have? It is unworkable but I would accept a google check, instead of filling out a form.

By the way I think that a doctor's psychological counselling would be an excellent idea as well for anyone considering a abortion- for medical reasons. I presume it probably is. I'm personally very much against abortion, but how do you force a women to carry it to term? This is way off topic.

"In Arizona, and other stat... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"In Arizona, and other states they are tightening the belt and reducing public services and releasing even more mental patients now."

Funny how that works. Moonbeam Brown just released his "plan" to cut the state's $28 BILLION deficit. Whatta ya know! Mental Health is getting cuts! How about those 110 "advisory boards" - home to termed-out politicians collecting 6 figure salaries for meeting once a month? .....crickets chirping.....

How about reverting to the 2003-4 budget before the influx of $40 BILLION in additional tax income - that the bastards promptly found ways to spend? ........more crickets chirping....

And the fucking dumb ass wants people here to vote to extend the "temporary tax increases" for ANOTHER FIVE YEARS.

Yeah. That's gonna happen.

retired military, you're un... (Below threshold)
Marco Polo:

retired military, you're unhinged. Maybe you could go out and kill more with two swords than this nutjob, but that's you.

He was stopped when he had to reload. If he only had a ten-clip magazine, he would have been stopped 20 shots sooner.

If the shooter at Virgina Tech had a knife, he would have killed someone that day, but not 32.

Your arguments are weak, and the only analogies you can make include various ways you could or would kill people trying to minimize what a nut can do with a gun.

Motive is what drives people, but lethal weapons are what kill large numbers of people in a short period of time.

Do you think the military will give up automatic weapons and just carry swords? You argue it is motive that kills. That's all people need, you say. Well, our soldiers have plenty of motive to do what they are doing, yet we still choose to equip them with the most lethal weapons that we can.

And your question about the 1000s of babies that died today and the difference between them and the congresswoman . . . are you talking about abortions? Something that is legal? Really?

So you are for 2nd Amendment solutions when the law is not on your side.

And retired military, I'm not impressed by that you're retired military. I did two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Your position on guns or mine carry no more weight than anyone else living in America.

Right Wing, will you make up your mind if you're for or against violence?

Steve" I think th... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

" I think that a doctor's psychological counselling would be an excellent idea as well for anyone considering a abortion...I presume it probably is"

And you would be definitely wrong. In fact, if suggested than you would hear the left howl like no tomorrow. In fact there are howls of protest when laws are suggested that women even have to look at an ultrasound prior to an abortion much less undergo counseling.

How you force them to carry to term is off topic but not the comparision of the legal murder of unborn children vs the attempted murder of a democratic congresswoman.
The fact is a woman can go in and get an abortion in any abortion clinic in America and not have to undergo mental evaluation. 12 year olds can be taken to abortion clinics by their teachers and no questions asked, the baby is killed. SO I think it is very pertinent to the discussion.

After all the discussion is who should be able to legally buy a firearm and what do they have to go through to buy it. Your presumption is that society must make sure they will keep people safe if the person is allowed to buy it. I have legally owned a firearm for 30 years. Have never fired it outside of a range. I have had extensive training in the use of firearms and firearm safety. I have held TS SCI clearances and I have never been arrested. yet you would have me undergo mental evaluation to buy a gun. yet a 12 year old can get an abortion without parental permission or notification.

A million unborn children a year are killed vs what 40k deaths where guns are involved? Who is more likely to kill someone? A woman or some nutjob who legally gets a firearm under today's laws. Yet you want to have folks who want to buy guns get mentally evaluated. I see a disparity in your thinking. Dont you?


Kudos on your position on abortion.

BTW, Rick, why isn't Laura ... (Below threshold)
Marco Polo:

BTW, Rick, why isn't Laura Bush in jail? She literally truly killed someone. No rhetoric. No vitriol. No symbolism. No jail time.

Hell, she even admits to feeling guilt for blowing off the stop sign (breakin' the law) and killing the driver of the other car:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/291319

BTW Steve<a href="... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW Steve

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_owners_are_there_in_the_United_States_of_America


Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun(thats about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million.

There are about 160 million women in the US.
(figure half the population)

1 million abortions vs 40k gun deaths (not all of them due to illegal use of guns).

Who is more statistically likely to kill a person? A woman or a gun owner?

Go ahead. I'll wait.

Would some Tea Baggin' righ... (Below threshold)
Marco Polo:

Would some Tea Baggin' right winger tell retired military that abortion is legal?

retired military, next time the GOP controls the house, senate, and white house, have them pass a law overturning Roe v. Wade.

In fact, why haven't they done that when they have controlled all three? You know why? Because it's ONLY an election issue for them. They, too, have daughters and wives and mistresses who get knocked up and want an abortion. It's not convenient for a senator to take his daughter across state lines for an abortion.

The right will NEVER EVER truly try to overturn Roe v. Wade. For them, it's just a campaign promise to get morons like you to vote for them.

retired military..We have l... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

retired military..We have laws for who is dangerous: armed robberies, sexual molestation of children , abductions. That shouldn't be hard, give them swift and long sentences

As for the Lougnhers of the world, we are getting there since Virgiania Tech, but very slowly=take their death threats seriously-they are crimes-apply Bratton's zero tolerance rule. His fellow students spotted him as a would be homicial maniac. Surely there aren't that many out there. Add just one category on possible homicidal maniac- to his file, that should be enough The college would alert the police of medical instability as well. And if he applies for a gun like the Gluck 19, the police would be warned, as if they didn't have enough red flags. What does he want a gun like this for? Hey more red tape but doesn't everyone not want a Loughner walking around, and a armed one at that.
Presumably the whole point of having a gun is for legitimate self-defence from crazies like Loughhner and other dangerous people so why let them have guns in the first place.

"He was stopped when he had... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"He was stopped when he had to reload. If he only had a ten-clip magazine, he would have been stopped 20 shots sooner."

Says who? How long did it take people to react? He could have reloaded a 10 rd mag twice in about same time...with the same result.

"If the shooter at Virgina Tech had a knife, he would have killed someone that day, but not 32."

Again, says who? Only one person put up a fight. The professor who died. Everyone else ran and hid.

"...why isn't Laura Bush in jail? She literally truly killed someone."

She was a minor at the time, 17. Splash Kennedy was an adult - killed someone while drunk on his ass - and got a suspended driver license.

Your "concern" for justice is duly noted.

"...next time the GOP contr... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"...next time the GOP controls the house, senate, and white house, have them pass a law overturning Roe v. Wade. In fact, why haven't they done that when they have controlled all three?"

Uh, because they haven't controlled ALL 3?

Good logic all around, Gara... (Below threshold)
Marco Polo:

Good logic all around, GarandFan. I wasn't prepared for your infantile arguments, but here it goes . . .

Hey, so minors can kill with no consequence. Outstanding.

And, yeah, he could have reloaded a 1-round magazine 31 times.

And who says? Any reasonable person, that's who. Yes, people will take cover when bullets are flying. A knife, bat . . . much easier to put up a fight. I'm I really arguing this? It's one thing to argue for the 2nd Amendment. I'm a gun owner, too. But to argue that you can kill the same with any weapon is IDIOTIC. Anything from you that's not lame?

"His fellow students spotte... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"His fellow students spotted him as a would be homicidal maniac. Surely there aren't that many out there."

I wrote Charles Ng a traffic citation. 2 years later he was a co-defendent in Northern California in a multiple sex slave/murder case.

On another occasion I wrote a traffic cite to a Marine Major. 6 months later he sliced open the throat of his brother-in-law.

So what does a 'homicidal maniac' look like? Look in the mirror.

GarandFan,They hav... (Below threshold)
Marco Polo:

GarandFan,

They haven't controlled all three? Really???? Sweet and Sour Jesus!! Where were you from 2003 to 2007??

GarandFan, I can't respond to you any longer. Read or go do something useful.

"Anything from you that's n... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Anything from you that's not lame?"

Thank you. I rest my case.

"Presumably the whole point... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"Presumably the whole point of having a gun is for legitimate self-defence from crazies like Loughhner and other dangerous people so why let them have guns in the first place. "

Oh I dont think anyone who has proven that they have lost the right to have a gun should have one. We already have a process in place for those. But that isnt what you suggested above. You wanted folks to undergo mental evaluations before they even buy one. In fact you bemoan that gun dealers are our only line of defense when they clearly are not.

Again. Who decides who is dangerous? Since the screening process in place is not to your satisfaction you must have something in mind. You said above basically mental health professionals. Yet pschopaths can easily mask answers to fool even trained mental health professionals. And these same mental health professionals that are going to spend what 10 min? 20 min? 8 hours? evaluating a person? Who is going to pay for this? Why should I have to pay for a mental health evaluation when I have show no symptoms of having a mental problem. Again you want society to "stay safe" above all else. Why not just lock kids up until they are 40 and then they can never get hurt.

Again, who decides who is dangerous?

and where do we draw the line? THe more we allow the govt into our life and dictate our actions the more robots we are and less we acutally think for ourself.

Again, you will never stop incidents like the above. I doubt you will even slow down the number of incidents like above. You have no right to punish the whole for the actions of a few. That is what you and a lot of those on the left are suggesting.

As I stated, I beleive a far more effective deterent is
a. Take away their 15 min of fame. Dont put their names in the media any more than absolutely nescessary.

b. Swift trial and swift punishment. I dont mena lock them up and "cure them" and release them back to society.

c. ENFORCE THE GUN LAWS on the books. Of course that is asking a lot from an administration that doesnt even enforce the immigration laws much less gun laws.

d. Gun control laws for the MOST part do nothing but infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens. Keep them simple and ENFORCE THEM.

e. Realize that making new laws because someone violated a dozen or so other laws makes no sense.

Again. As I said above. I could have a higher body count with 200 gallons of gas, a lighter and 50 pounds of nails. Do you propose having everyone who buy gas to get mentally evaluated as well?

Retired military, I under... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Retired military, I understand your convictions on abortion, Definitely I think medical permisison and counselling, with the alternatives spelled out like adoption- make it more attractive, should be required and a two week waiting period unless for health reasons. Then and only then, and a doctor could still refuse permission, that he didn't think it the best interests of the mother.
I have a feeling that medical science will eventually find a closer fool proof way of contraception so the frequency of abortion can be dratiscally reduced. It is a helluva decision.

Marco PoloI though... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Marco Polo

I thought we were talking about laws that should be passed and right and wrong. Yes abortion is legal. Does that make it right? I dont think so. Let's see. THe nutjob above had a legally bought gun yet he killed someone. Gee see how those things overlap. Guess it is above your mental level. Watch out. Steve wont let you get a gun on your own.

Steve"should be re... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

"should be required and a two week waiting period unless for health reasons. Then and only then, and a doctor could still refuse permission, that he didn't think it the best interests of the mother.
"

For the left that means anything from the mother will get depressed because she is pregnant or will suffer mentally because she cant go to a dance in her favorite dress.

Also the left wants to make it so a doctor has to perform abortions even if they are morally opposed to it.

Nice talk but the reality of the situation is nowhere near what you want. And for Marco Polo's sake why is it this way? Why for the left's political gain.

Did I say mental evaluation... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Did I say mental evaluations? I was being sarcastic that licensed gun dealers sometimes refuse clients who are obviously not competetent. Of course, they could just go to another dearler. I am obviously not a expert in the process? I'm just throwing out suggestions for keeping a crazy like the Tuscon shooter from having possesiion of a glock 19. Perhaps it should like young first time drivers, they must jump through considerable more hoops than the experienced gun owners/ drivers who can practically write their own licenses. That seems fair.

These psychopathic nuts seem to love the thrill of guns as much as the killing, so they aren't nearly as likely to use gasoline, nails or knives in a mass execution.

MarcoWhy is it whe... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Marco

Why is it whenever the subject of overturning Roe V Wade comes up the left goes hand wringing, brings up coathangers, talks about taking away womens right to choose, yada yada yada when in fact the only thing that will happen is the decision on the legality of abortion will revert back to the states. In fact abortion was legal in 2 states prior to Roe V Wade and the vast majority of the deaths due to abortions were because of infection and not the use of coathangers, back alley doctors, etc.

In fact, the year prior to Roe V Wade becoming legalized about 32 women died from complications of abortions (again mostly due to infections). The Pro abortion folks have admitted they downplay the states deciding on abortion and massively lie about the deaths from illegal abortions to gin up support for their cause.

In short, they lie to get people like you to vote for them.

SteveBut given a t... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

But given a total lack of guns then they would revert to using gasoline and nails or knives. What then? Ban gasoline and nails? Have a fitness test for people trying to buy them?

"I was being sarcastic that licensed gun dealers sometimes refuse clients who are obviously not competetent'

And what do you have Steve? A lawsuit waiting to happend. Hell people will be lining up to try to buy guns, act crazy while they do so and when refused call their lawyer on the spot.
And God forbid that it be a minority who is refused. Al shaprton will be marching in the streets screaming discrimination and hate crimes. And why can this happen? Because the left has made sueing at the drop of a hat for anyone for anything a fact in today's society. Can't use common sense thanks to the threats of a lawsuit or being called a bigot.

Again. Wont happen. Not in this lifetime.


Just how is someone adjudge... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Just how is someone adjudged "mentally ill" in any legal sense? It is not as if there are many civil commitment hearings and criminal insanity findings - anyone seeing either a psychiatrist or a lawyer can easily avoid being labeled, the way things work out these days.

Notice the Arizona shooter's incidents were never formalized to the point he would have shown up as mentally ill on any database. Or are we going to label everyone who is kicked out of school for misbehavior as mentally ill? And which bureaucrat gets to decide?

As usual, the left has nothing to offer the conversation but lies and stupidity. It's so deeply ingrained in them . . . maybe we should put them in a database, eh?

We come back to the second ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

We come back to the second amendment. If you are driving a car you are resonably confident the other drivers in the traffic have pased a drivers test at least one time, to get their license. What kind of confidence to you have in Arizona if they allow this nut to have a loaded semi automatic in broad view? And according to the sheriff the next step for the legislature would have been be allow him or a simialr student to go to class with a loaded semi-automatic. How many students can sit next to the door?

SteveYou have spen... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

You have spent a ton of words talking about people who should not be able to buy a gun legally and they should be stopped from buying a gun legally.

Has it ever occurred to you that the same people you want to stop from buying a gun legally could care less about the law and will get a gun any way they can? Legally or illegally.

All you have done is to make it harder for people who arent going to use it illegally from owning a gun.

SteveIf Loughton h... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

If Loughton had stolen a gun rather than buying it legally would you then suggest that we should make stealing guns against the law? Oh wait. It already is.

"If you are driving a car y... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"If you are driving a car you are reasonably confident the other drivers in the traffic have passed a drivers test at least one time, to get their license."

Using that logic, ergo there are NO drunk driving fatalities or accidents.

Right?

I'm trying to still keep th... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

I'm trying to still keep the integrity of the second amendment and keep Glock 19s out of possession of a Loughner, it is very difficult if most of you don't even want the borderline schizophrenic terroristic threatening wacho -jobs to undergo the hassle of being refused a gun permit.

It is incongrous, in the name of safety,that you accept the bureaucratic culture and expense of a pretty lengthy subjective 'don't fly list' that all maner of people are on, and barely tolerable 'put downs', but don't want to be inconveniced that we should be checking first time gun owners with the grinning insane profile of Loughner, about half as much as we would for someone attempting to surreptiously take a bottle of shampoo through a passenger gate.

SteveIn your first... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

In your first post you said

"The subtext of Palin is not that she incites violence but that her followers will intimidate you, if you dare threaten the crown jewel in the constitution, the second amendment, kind of shows what interests them most"

How about going to Michelle Malkin's site and look at the littany of left wing hate against Palin. Since you made the statement above do you agree with the following statement

"The subtext of Obama is not that he incites violence but that his followers will intimidate you, if you dare threaten the actions taken by Obama, kind of shows what interests them most"

That is a good question,re... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

That is a good question,retired military he could have stolen a firearm or bought a stolen one. There are so many around, even more Glocks now, sales are rocketing so . The psychopaths normally buy one legally they aren't conventional criminals but still I think we have exhausted this. The only thing we can realistically do, short of amending the second, is be on guard and hope for good police work mmnn and keep these idiots in jail for a long time..ten years for a stolen firearm, might be start.

Steve"I'm trying t... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

"I'm trying to still keep the integrity of the second amendment and keep Glock 19s out of possession of a Loughner, it is very difficult if most of you don't even want the borderline schizophrenic terroristic threatening wacho -jobs to undergo the hassle of being refused a gun permit"

Again

Please address the following questions


Has it ever occurred to you that the same people you want to stop from buying a gun legally could care less about the law and will get a gun any way they can? Legally or illegally.

If Loughton had stolen a gun rather than buying it legally than what recourse would you suggest we take to stop an event like this from happening again?

SteveHell I say li... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

Hell I say life in jail for committing a crime (note that I am not talking about self defense) with a gun including stealing one or knowingly buying one illegally.

retired military..I won't g... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

retired military..I won't go the site.just now I will take your word for a lot of vitriol.It has been a good discussion, I have learned something how intractable the problem is. with no simple answers.

I don't see where you come ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

I don't see where you come to that conclusion Steve.

We're not opposed to it, merely pointing out the LIBERAL hurdles, both legislative and court-wise that have been erected to protect others "rights".

You remind me of people, being stopped by police, who demand to know why THEY are being hassled. Why the cop isn't out looking for robbers, rapists and murderers?

Could it be that they look like you and me?

I don't pretend to know the answers, but it appears to me that the liberal, educated elite threw the baby out with the bathwater. No more asylums. Were some hell-holes? YES! Joe Kennedy had his daughter committed to one after he had her lobotomized. My aunt was in one for 34 years. Oddly enough, both of those asylums were run by religious orders.

For the greater part of our country's history, there was no NICS or background check to buy a gun. Now some people want even MORE laws. Why? More does not logically equate with better. From personal experience, "firearms penalty enhancements" in the commission of a crime are usually the first thing prosecutors plea-bargain away in exchange for a reduced sentence. California has a +2 year penalty enhancement if you use a semi-auto in the commission of a crime. Let's see. A standard .45 holds 7 rounds; yet there are revolvers that can hold 9 rounds. So you get +2 years if you use the .45 and not the revolver, which held 2 more rounds? That's logic? Or is that "feel good".

Mental health people knew about Cho. But he made no list because he 'self-reported'. So did that make him any less a danger?

And please don't use the TSA as an example. They're nothing but theater to induce people to believe that something is being accomplished.

As someone pointed out earlier, there is no "risk-free" society.

I agree with you, rm I see ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

I agree with you, rm I see that program 48 hours, from time to time. All of the 'guilty suspects' normally have heavy criminal records and they are on the streets freely, and sometimes they are as young as 21.Again society passes the buck. View the Kleiman video on crime I linked to. My only explanation is that judges are being intimidated, otherwise they and the lawmakers would if they had any sense, make their punishment, clear, swift and predictable.
Even though I have no idea what these people could do - some maybe even worse things-if they were not devoted to drugs and crime usually to pay for their habit or live style. I used to drive a taxi in a a inner city and obtaining drugs was their main almost exclusive motivation in life.

Obama, as a ex- black community organizer was supposed to do something on this score, but he has done zero, in spite of a high proportion of them being black or probably because of that and the optics. In a way he is racist, by failing almost deliberately to be inspiring to those that might actually listen to him. Instead Wall street has his ear and heart.

"Instead Wall street has hi... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Instead Wall street has his ear and heart."

Follow the money.

As for Barry....an empty suit is always an empty suit. He accomplished nothing of import as a 'community organizer'. But some of his pals got rich "rehabing" rundown apartment houses. That promptly fell apart again.

Hell, look what happened to Bill Cosby when he spoke out. His own people denounced him and all but hung him in effigy. Barry doesn't take risks.....except with other people's money.

Kleiman feels we are maybe ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Kleiman feels we are maybe barking up the wrong tree. more gun generic control might only make for a very slight incremental improvement in crime. if that, and he is liberal, perhaps my favorite and a expert on crime.

I’m not a huge fan of generic gun control. Making it harder for already ineligible people to get guns – by passing tougher laws on gun trafficking and closing down the private-sale loophole that allows sales without background checks – would have some value, but shrinking the number of guns owned by people allowed to own guns under current law wouldn’t do much about violence. States that make it easier to get a concealed-carry permit don’t find that the permit-holders commit many crimes. And “assault weapons” constitute only a tiny part of the gunfire problem


It might be interesting if the police knew L. had bought a gun ,what would they have done?googling him might be partial solution-these jerks normally allude to what they are going to on a youtube video a few days before, because they revel in the attention..Hi retired miitary is not often I change my mind, unless i come up with some good precise idea, i'm going to give you this one.

Yeah Garand fan Obama the ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Yeah Garand fan Obama the pseudo-populist has disappeared. Had he had some experience before with the Lords of Wall Street, he may have been more sceptical of them? Instead he spends his leisure time golfing, with the well-heeled. I have nothing against golf. It is good waste of time and I have caddied on the tour L.A open and worked at the US open in Merion, but I think those years in Harlem, when he was at Columbia trying to hail a taxi and then listening to Reverend Wright for twenty years and realizing what a fool he had been made of has made too much a impression on him, that he wants to distance himself from these folks, now. He has their vote anyway -he needs the Independents.

Steve" My only exp... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

" My only explanation is that judges are being intimidated, otherwise they and the lawmakers would if they had any sense, make their punishment, clear, swift and predictable.
"

I disagree. I think they are folks, a lot like you and I. Only they have these grand ideas on how to fix things and they have the power to implement them via their courtroom or via their votes in legislature. When you think that there are no bad people in the world, only ones that have been mistreated by the system and you have the power to hold the system accountable than you do so. Look at the folks who released the 3 time murderer back about 2 months ago that suprisingly enough went out and murdered again. Look at judges that blame young girls when they are molested and raped and give the guys who did it a slap on the wrist.

The system would probably work if given a chance. Would some fall through. Yes. But you have the folks who are in positions of power in the system who say " I know better and I have the power to do something about it" and they do and when disaster strikes they do nothing. Look at the sheriff of Pina county for example. He is more interested in pushing his idealogue than in doing his job as sheriff.

Look at the "sanctuary cities". The officials in those cities are doing nothing more than choosing to follow their idealogue rather than the law.

Look at the Obama administration on the whole subject of illegal immigration. THe law is not being followed and they are quite open about not doing so.


SteveAlso dont for... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Steve

Also dont forget that the justice system is influenced by power and money as well.

If Ted Kennedy's name had been Antwoine Kapinski from the Bronx instead of spending 50 years in the Senate he would have been spending 5-10 in Rikers.

Same if Loughton's name had been Kennedy, Hilton, or Gore than he would be consigned to some top dollar mental institution due to his eccentricacies of playing with skulls (if that had ever even been printed in the press). Shrinks would be lined up on talk shows to talk about the stress of the rich and famous and trying to fill daddy's shoes and how this is a good person who has had a rough time of life and cant handle his $50 million inheritance.

Sadly some if not all the above would be true on both sides of the aisle but the left has the advantage of the MSM spin machine on their side.

Hey SteveA few mor... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hey Steve

A few more questions.

Why is it that folks who have lost their driving licenses for life due to DWIs are still allowed to buy cars or alcohol?

I dont see an outcry there.

Why is it that judges and defense attornies say you can't punish someone because of SOMETHING THEY MAY DO. Yet isnt that what you are proposing? Punishing people for things they may do? How many convicted criminals made parole becuase they had been model prisoners and couldnt be punished for things they MAY do? Murderers, sex offenders, thieves, drug dealers, etc. Yet I dont see the left up in arms about keeping these folks in jail, instead they not only want to let them out but give them the right to vote.

There are about 50 million households in the US whch own guns. Yet there are only about 40k deaths per year due to guns. In 2006 there were more deaths than that due to car accidents. Yet you dont see the left shouting to the rooftops to ban cars do you.

You have to ask yourself why?

Hey SteveCheck out... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hey Steve

Check out this Facebook group.

“I Hate It When I Wake Up & Sarah Palin Is Still Alive”

Currently has over 2k members.

Gotta love all that hate talk.

The Kennedys certainly bamb... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

The Kennedys certainly bamboozled the public and strong-armed the press. I saw this on public television pbs- on Sunday, in this case JFK and Bobby JFK's women, Camelot? worth noting.

Of course, there is a lot incivility on all sides. It is America, after all, and we are debating politics, but, I think conservatives must be in denial about some of the intense passion of their supporters..just glance at the comments in Baron Otto's last post. It is hard to debate with them.

As David Frum says this rhetoric is not so impressive on crazy people=they inhabit a different world=but on normal people, how to you compromise or find common ground with them if so many 'normal people' are using such intemperate language?

I find some similarity in the gun control and abortion debates. No matter what you do, unless you are really ruthless- I am not suggesting that, crazy determined people will find a way to get guns, if they have to steal them, just as if you outlaw abortions, women that are really intent on having one, even if they are illegal will find a way, a back street abortionist or go off to Europe or South America or some other place, Russia?

We should still try to curtail abortions, just as somehow try to keep loaded semi-automatic guns out of the hands of the crazies or make it at least, a little more difficult for them to obtain them, the minimal paper work might deter or challenge them even, if that is not impossible.

We live in an imperfect wor... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

We live in an imperfect world, populated by imperfect people. People who are free to make choices. You can only hope the right choice is made. But it's never guaranteed.

We can certainly agree on ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

We can certainly agree on that, GarandFan.




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