« Off The Grid | Main | Identity Crisis »

Who bears the guilt of the Tucson shootings?

Mark Shea is not someone I find myself agreeing with all the time but what I do find myself doing when I read his stuff is pausing and pondering what it is the man has to say. 

He's done it to me again:

The good news of the Catholic faith is that Christ has chosen to take upon himself the guilt and sin, not only for his own murder, but for the murder and suffering of those poor folks in Tuscon. The lunatic who pulled the trigger in Tuscon bears his responsibility for his act of pounding the nails through the hands and feet of Christ. But rather than making cynical political capital out of his act by blaming Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin, Lefties would be better employed contemplating their own contributions to the miasma of violent rhetoric they so swiftly blame on others. Likewise, rather than pretending that the doctrine of rugged individualism insulates them from the taint of participation in the fallen and violent race they too have helped to encourage, righties might rethink their own glorifications of violence.

Ultimately, the only person in this tragic affair who is without sin is Jesus Christ--and He became sin and chose to bear the guilt of Jared Loughner and the rest of us that we might become the righteousness of God.

Asking who bears the guilt for what happened on Tucson is another way of asking "What's Wrong with the World?" Answer: I am. My dismissive and abusive tongue helped hell here. My flippancy and contempt helped damage respect for other people and encourage people like Loughner to embrace complete contempt. My anger at people helped encourage the Loughners of the world in theirs. My sins against Christian liberty will make it easier for those who seek to destroy that liberty to do so.

The doctrine of solidarity means not, "let's be socialist" but that we are all in Adam (and Christians are in Christ) for good and for ill. My sins hurt you and your acts of obedience help me. For the love of God, may we stop the finger-pointing, forgive those who hypocritically accuse others, and pray.

Pondering it all prayerfully.


TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
/cgi-bin/mt-tb.cgi/40927.

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Who bears the guilt of the Tucson shootings?:

» Brutally Honest linked with Who bears the guilt of the Tucson shootings?

Comments (33)

The Kook who pulled the tri... (Below threshold)
TexBob:

The Kook who pulled the trigger, but libtards would have you believe otherwise.

Definetly not Me or Sarah..... (Below threshold)
914:

Definetly not Me or Sarah..

I find this "blame the ange... (Below threshold)
CapitalistChk:

I find this "blame the anger" thing interesting. Really is the anger to blame more than the cause of the anger? Blaming the anger is blaming the victim IMO. It's time the blame was placed solely on the shooter.

^^ Because that's exactly t... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

^^ Because that's exactly the line of reasoning you applied to the Fort Hood massacre. Because being intellectually consistent is really important to you.

Hyper confuses actual psych... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Hyper confuses actual psychosis with groups wanting to murder in the name of God.

Sounds like this writer is going through a little "conviction". That is good. A very good start. ww

^^Looks like someone was re... (Below threshold)
914:

^^Looks like someone was released early for good behavior.

Oh yeah! Canada banned "Mon... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Oh yeah! Canada banned "Money For Nothing". the song Dire Straits made famous. Some might find it offensive. There is a difference between us and them. ww

I don't mean to be argument... (Below threshold)
Clancy:

I don't mean to be argumentative or disrespectful, but how does this reconcile with the non-Christians? The Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, et al for whom Christ was just a guy (if He existed at all)...

What happened to "He was ju... (Below threshold)
liberalnitemare:

What happened to "He was just nuts"?

#7They reco... (Below threshold)
914:

#7


They reconcile it by blaming Palin, Bush or the great Satan America.

"I find this "blame the ang... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"I find this "blame the anger" thing interesting. Really is the anger to blame more than the cause of the anger? " - capitalistchk

If the cause of the anger is the US or conservatives then the libs will blame that (i.e. when muslims are angry at western decadence or take some offense at the west for no good reason, libs blame us for being the cause).

If the anger itself is displayed by the right or by someone motivated by right wing statements then the cause of the anger is innocent and it is the angry response itself that is to blame.

Really quite simple. If the libs hate you, you are to blame for everything.

We are already past the "ju... (Below threshold)
914:

We are already past the "just nuts" phase of this.


Now its on to phase 2.) Avoiding the death penalty.

Phase 3.) Writing a book. "How I did it".

Phase 4.) An interview from prison. Oprah's swan song.

25 years from now Phase 5.) Admit it was a leftist plot.

Hyperbolist,Who ar... (Below threshold)
Rick Author Profile Page:

Hyperbolist,

Who are you directing your thoughts to?

And what question are you answering?

And be specific when you make an accusation... cite with links where this "you" has engaged in the behaviors you're citing...

See how this works?

Who bears the guilt?... (Below threshold)
LeBron Steinman:

Who bears the guilt?
I vote for the 'hyperbolists' of this world .
Hey, this is easy.

It matters not, the leftist... (Below threshold)
Don L:

It matters not, the leftist media has just been waiting to take down she whom they fear most - Sarah. And with good reason -she principled and speaks the truth that neither side in DC wants to hear.

"Because being intellect... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"Because being intellectually consistent is really important to you." - Hyperbolist

Yes that's why we blame the Fort Hood shooter for his actions and not the left or the right. That's why we blame Loughner for his actions and not the left or the right.

We do not blame some foreign imam either for the fort hood shooter. We do afirm that his motivation is from his hateful religion that tells him that he should kill innocent people just like we see that Loughner's mental illness pushed him to commit his murders.

In both cases the issue is not that the motivation removes guilt from the individual but that it explains their actions. In Loghner's case his illness may have driven him to do what he did but there is also reason to believe that he still understood that it was wrong.

The left wants to blame the words of others for driving people to commit acts of violence. But they do not really mean this because there is equally violent language on their side and they have no intention what-so-ever in restraining that language. They are only seking to use a tragic event for their own gain.

I am ????really ..... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

I am ????

really ... Shea ???

I don't think so, because if you were as pure as the driven snow your entire life up to last Saturday morning, guess what ... the same outcome ... YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT ...

this nut was not looking to you or anyone else for permission or approval ...

you are trying to elevate yourself to some place that you have no business being ...

"Ultimately, the only perso... (Below threshold)
Rance:

"Ultimately, the only person in this tragic affair who is without sin is Jesus Christ..."

How do the Father/Son/Holy Ghost get a free pass?

Aren't they responsible for the shooter's mental illness?

my -1 in 3 votes is telling... (Below threshold)
Clancy:

my -1 in 3 votes is telling. So much for walking the walk.

However and with whatever faith you want to reconcile this with yourself is fine by me.

But let there be no doubt that the person 100% responsible for the tragedy in Tucson is Jared Lee Loughner. Period. To suggest anything otherwise is a venture onto a slippery slope from which there is no return.

as usual leave it to a libe... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

as usual leave it to a liberal to tell us on the right what we think or glorify ...

violence for instance ... to the left, protecting yourself is violence ...

Pounding the nails into Christs feet ? Really ??? that is what this nut did ?

I'm an atheist and even I understand that the nonsense Shea is spotting is pure drivel to bash the right with ... he is basically pointing fingers right up to the point he says,
"My sins hurt you and your acts of obedience help me. For the love of God, may we stop the finger-pointing, forgive those who hypocritically accuse others, and pray."

Guess what Shea, your sins don't effect me in the least ... at least they have'nt as of yet because the day your "sin" effects me is the day I kick your ass and your sin back to the stone age.


How do the Father/Son/Holy ... (Below threshold)
914:

How do the Father/Son/Holy Ghost get a free pass?

Aren't they responsible for the shooter's mental illness?


Its called personal responsibility. The freedom to choose is Jared's in this instance. He chose unwisely.

You want to judge GOD? Go ahead and lots of luck with that one.

"My flippancy and contempt ... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

"My flippancy and contempt helped damage respect for other people and encourage people like Loughner to embrace complete contempt."

We're still waiting for a professional's diagnosis of the shooter's mental state. But, if it turns out that he is in fact schizophrenic that is a physical ailment, a disease. At that point this whole "my (remote from the person) flippancy, contempt, behavior encouraged..." thought process is just so much inappropriate drivel.

Again, we're still waiting for the professionals to tell us what's actually wrong with the shooter. This Shea character is behaving like crash survivor beating himself up for surviving when everyone else died.

Honestly, he sounds like a wussy trying to say something he thinks is "sensitive enough" to get him laid.

That was awesome, Old Guy. ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

That was awesome, Old Guy. You nailed it.

Shea seems clear (to me any... (Below threshold)
Rick Author Profile Page:

Shea seems clear (to me anyway) that he holds the lunatic responsible for his actions... it's what he says...

His reference to a more collective guilt is in response to his "what's wrong with the world" question... a theological question born out of the more secular question asked as to who's guilty for the shooting... a question with an answer given within the context of Christ's redemptive purpose...

My take anyway...

Perhaps the post is a little too... spiritual... for the audience here...

Perhaps.

I believe the term is calle... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

I believe the term is called 'survivor guilt', that first came to my attention by psycholgist Robert Jay Lifton, labelling the the stress of some Vietnam war veterans, he was treating. Mind you I would hate to be in the position of some of those who had direct dealings with Lougnhner before the incident..too many but 'what if I had'. On the other hand, there may be a denial of guilt or responsibilty where one's actions may have influenced ....No I'm not suggesting..

Rick, that was directed at ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Rick, that was directed at everyone who thinks that the would-be assassin should take 100% of the responsibility, and that the social context in which he lived does not deserve any scrutiny.

That's hypocritical because you would (rightly) blame the Fort Hood shooter but conservatives/right-leaning bloggers, pundits, and people in general (maybe you--maybe not--it's extraneous to the general point) framed it as a Muslim doing what Muslims do--and thus the blame did not stop with the individual. (I'm not going to find specific examples. Everyone remembers the sarcastic remarks about the "religion of peace" following that incident.)

Same goes for the community center with a mosque in it a few blocks from Ground Zero. Some Muslims committed a heinous act of violence; and so some other Muslims should not be permitted to construct a building for which they have obtained legal permission. In fact, people who fetishize the Constitution were keen on denying these Muslim-Americans their Constitutional rights, because some other Muslims committed mass murder.

So it seems to me that most people who (rightly or wrongly) attribute the actions of individual Muslims to the social context of the Islamic world are rather quick to deny that this individual in Arizona could in any way be a product of his circumstances.

And I'm not saying that that absolves him of any guilty whatsoever. Arizona has the death penalty and this person deserves to die. And I would suggest that, to the extent possible, people stop referring to him with his given or family names. He does not deserve any recognition as a human being.

Can I just say that 914 at post #9 seems to suggest that every non-Christian is of the opposite political persuasion. No room in his proverbial tent for Jews or Buddhists. You're exactly what is wrong with your country, asshole.

That was poorly worded. He ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

That was poorly worded. He should take 100% of the responsibility. What I should have said is, his actions can be wholly explained without any reference to the broader network of causal influence in which we all find ourselves situated.

I'm not making apologies for this sub-human.

I don't know, I'm just not ... (Below threshold)
LiberalNitemare:

I don't know, I'm just not able to see it the same way Rick does.

I get the basic concept - no man is without sin. We have all contributed to the sinful state of affairs that we live in. I agree up to that point.

But I don't buy that we are all somehow complicit in the Arizona shootings. In fact Mark Shea says in the article:
So does that mean "we all shot those people in Tuscon"?
No. It mean something far worse: we all crucified Jesus Christ.

I don't think that the fact that we have all sinned, can be used to relieve any of us of the responsibility for committing our own particular sins.

"Rick, that was directed at... (Below threshold)
914:

"Rick, that was directed at everyone who thinks that the would-be assassin should take 100% of the responsibility, and that the social context in which he lived does not deserve any scrutiny."


"That was poorly worded. He should take 100% of the responsibility"


I was against responsibility before I was for it.

Coming from you, that makes complete sense.

Rick, that was dir... (Below threshold)
Rick, that was directed at everyone who thinks that the would-be assassin should take 100% of the responsibility, and that the social context in which he lived does not deserve any scrutiny.

Oh, you mean like progressive heartthrob Ed Schultz, who said pretty much this on his TV show a couple of days ago?

You've been beating this dead horse now for a couple of days now, and it's silly. If the guy was a raving schizophrenic (and he probably is), then "social context" is not going to be much of a factor. And what the hell is "social context", anyway? It sounds like code for "vague stuff we can't clearly define (or else we'll get called on it and look like idiots), but we can use to pin blame on our conservative political enemies."

So give it a rest, willya?

That's the rub. In the bro... (Below threshold)
scsi.WuZzY:

That's the rub. In the broadest, most macro sense, Christian theology says we are all sinners and all share the blame for the sorry state of the world. But until today, I've never seen it suggested that we all share in the blame for individual actions or choices.

Anyone that wants to look for the root cause of modern society's ills needs to be ready for the finger to land on them for a spell. But that doesn't mean we are all to blame for each other.

How did the schools become so bad? You had a part in it.
How did the cities of Camden and Detroit become such warzones? You had a part in that.
Why did the neighbor kid drop a deuce in the urinal? OK, you probably had nothing to do with that.

Why all his LIBERAL profess... (Below threshold)
Maggie Mama:

Why all his LIBERAL professors, of course!

They had weekly interaction with him, witnessed his rantings and irrational behavior, and THEY ARE THE ONES WHO BELIEVE GOVERNMENT SHOULD INTERFER IN OUR LIVES.

So why didn't they call the sherrif's office, why didn't they call some social services bureaucrat, hell, why didn't they call Obama, he's THE ONE, isn't he?

Who's responsible? The lawmakers who have failed to give us another law to control behavior. They only seem to make laws to control MY behavior but they let nut jobs, illegal aliens, and chronic criminals have the benefit of the doubt rather than prosecute them.

It would be nice if rather than be concerned with what I am consuming or smoking, THEY PROTECT ME FROM OTHERS, which I always thought was their assigned job!

The administrators of his c... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

The administrators of his college or professors, or professor, after was he was suspended could have petioned the courts that he was so mentally ill he was a threat to society at large and this would have required time and money-lawyers don't come cheap-.I think they were just glad to get rid of him and they hoped they would never have to face him again.
He had already had several brushes with the campus police and the local police, who knew he had made at least five death threats to Arizonians, including the police themselves.
Hey, paranoid violent psychotics have a lot of rights in the US, including in Arizona, the second amendment right to walk around with a concealed or open loaded semi automatic with a huge magazine clip, and if anyone tries to take that right away from them, they will have to answer to the NRA.




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy