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Gov. Scott Walker (R): Wisconsin Won't be Bullied!


If the Governor's proposed budget cuts are implemented, Wisconsin's public employees will still have benefit plans more generous than most workers across the country, especially when compared to those middle class workers in the private sector - the ones paying the taxes which employ these protesting unionists!

Obviously, no one taught these spoiled children that there is no money tree.

FOX News' Greta Van Susteren interviewed the Governor last night.



"...the vast majority of state and local government employees -- most of those employees, 300,000, showed up for work today, unlike those around the capital and unlike those 14 state senators, Democrats, who decided to hide out, apparently, down in Rockford, Illinois.

...They're hiding out in hopes that somehow, that will test the resolve. If anything, I think it's made the Republicans in the assembly and the senate stronger. They're not going to be bullied. They're not going to be intimidated."


The real problem with the Progressive agenda is a fanatical embrace - and subsequent disregard of their own core philosophy: pure and unfettered democracy now. What the more sane among us consider 'mob rule.'

But the Progressive don't really want 'democracy now.' If they did, they would respect the will of Wisconsin's voters who voted in the current crop of fiscally responsible adults to clean up the mess left by the previous profligate progressives.

What the protesting progressives in Wisconsin's capital really want is a totalitarian implementation of their socialist agenda for wealth redistribution, regardless of cost. In short, gimme mine as long as some else is burdened with the obligation.

The blithering hypocrisy of these progressives is nauseating.

Update: Related: more Wisconsin districts shut down as teachers prove they care more about money than educating children.


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Comments (92)

I fail to see how fleeing t... (Below threshold)
LiberalNitemare:

I fail to see how fleeing the statehouse to avoid a vote is any different than shutting down the govt.

I find it amazing that thes... (Below threshold)

I find it amazing that these people are comparing themselves to those rising up in the middle east. Those people are protesting for democracy. These people are protesting for mob rule instead of democracy.

Yup, they're the ones teaching your kids.

The Dems and the Unions (ma... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

The Dems and the Unions (massive redunancy) are all about MOB RULE. Elections only have consequences when THEY win.

Wisconsin MUST hold firm...and MUST win this.

Support them anyway you can!

"But the Progressive don't ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"But the Progressive don't really want 'democracy now.'"

What they want, we call 'dictatorship'. It's only called "democracy" when they have the majority vote.

Speaking of the "mob", mayb... (Below threshold)
xyzpdq:

Speaking of the "mob", maybe we could get one of the esteemed members of the "family" to find one of these senators and transport him (via the trunk of his car) to the state legislative chambers.

Hold the vote everyday unti... (Below threshold)
914:

Hold the vote everyday until they show up period. In the meantime fire the current communists protesting and hire new teachers that actually want a job.

I find it amazing that t... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I find it amazing that these people are comparing themselves to those rising up in the middle east.

By "these people", you mean Paul Ryan, right?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/BeachWar/wisconsin-protests-scott-walker-police_n_824697_77731773.html

Take plenty of pictures of ... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Take plenty of pictures of the protests, and fire every person who falsely called in sick.

It's time to stop kow-towing to these overpaid union thugs. Obama's campaign org OFA and the DNC are helping coordinate this "protest," which is NOT grassroots by any stretch of imagination.

Rich professional athletes ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Rich professional athletes are in unions too.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wi_house_dems_warn_gov_walker_not_to_cross_packers.php?ref=fpb

This will end disastrously for Walker. So funny.

Is it really unreasonable t... (Below threshold)

Is it really unreasonable to conclude that when someone tells you flat-out that they have left the state in order to avoid doing their job that, as a state legislator, they have resigned their position? I suspect there are rules about having to actually reside in a state to represent it. They're saying now they could stay away for weeks and it needs to be out of state or the state police are going to drag them to the capital. Time to call some special elections, I think.

I think a few GOP staffers' time could be well spent toting up how much those AWOL senators are collectively being paid by the taxpayers for every day they're "in hiding" so every GOP member interviewed could lead off the interview with that detail, no matter what question is asked. Maybe even add on the costs of substitute teachers and school's being closed/having to add school days to make up for lost time.

Seriously, though, if they think people are going to become more sympathetic to their cause over this they're more delusional than I thought.

The picture of $100k per ye... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

The picture of $100k per year teachers refusing to teach and occupying the capitol and the Democrats fleeing like cockroaches to avoid the reality that Walker is trying to deal with won't sell very well. Except on HuffPo and DU where the loonies dwell.

The issue is specifically r... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The issue is specifically regarding unions for governmetn employees. Liberal hacks like Hyper want to confuse the issue with other unions.

The images of government employees making 6 figure incomes protesting that they will only be given job security and pay raises in line with the rest of the public will not engender that much sympathy for their plight. Neither will their use of nazi epithets toward the governor.

If they really felt that they had something to stand on they wouldn't be running away out of the state they would be standing and fighting.

The Green Bay Packers vs. G... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

The Green Bay Packers vs. Governor Scott Walker.

I know how stupid NFL fans are. Walker is gonna eat shit on this one.

"Collective bargaining" isn... (Below threshold)
Woop:

"Collective bargaining" isn't mob rule.

It's amazing how utterly stupid some conservative are.

"Collective bar... (Below threshold)
"Collective bargaining" isn't mob rule.
Explain the difference, then. Do not use "copy-and-paste."

This will affect your grade.

"Collective bargaining" is ... (Below threshold)
sam:

"Collective bargaining" is only a concession granted by the legislature.

The legislature giveth, the legislature taketh away.

"Walker is gonna eat shit o... (Below threshold)
Jay:

"Walker is gonna eat shit on this one."

You sound like a connoisseur.

I know how stupid ... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:
I know how stupid NFL fans are. Walker is gonna eat shit on this one.

Then you probably also know that NFL fans are looking at a possible players' strike this year. Nothing will piss NFL fans off more than a players' strike. Even Green Bay fans will take Walker's side on this one.


"I know how stupid NFL fans... (Below threshold)
sam:

"I know how stupid NFL fans are. Walker is gonna eat shit on this one."

This just shows how stupid the poster is.

NFL fans care for the team, not for the players.

Players come and go, nobody gives a crap. Interchangeable.

#14It's utterly no... (Below threshold)
914:

#14

It's utterly non surprising how stupid YOU are!

Gov. Scott Walker (R): Wisc... (Below threshold)
warchild:

Gov. Scott Walker (R): Wisconsin Won't be Bullied!
-------------

Love it when you are protesting a democratically elected government with a tea bag you ask: "Why isn't the government listening to the will of the people?"

When you do it without a tea bag you, are a bully. First class logic as always.

Hyper,The packers ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Hyper,

The packers are publicly owned they are not owned by the government. The Green Bay Packers are owned by shareholders and are incorporated as a private company.

Your ignorance is absolutely staggering. When people say that the Packers are owned by the city they mean that the citizens individually own the team not that the city government owns it.

Why don't you go somewhere and talk about something you know about. Oh, that's right, there isn't any such place.

This is right out of the li... (Below threshold)
Howie:

This is right out of the liberal playbook.

1. Attack the messenger

2. Silence your opponent

3. Take your ball and go home

"Why isn't the governmen... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"Why isn't the government listening to the will of the people?"

Actually, the government is listening to the people who elected it to reign in government spending. Do you have a recent poll that shows otherwise? I doubt it since there hasn't been time to conduct one.

Or are you suggesting that protesters bused in by the unions from Illinois, Minnesota and Iowa are somehow a grass roots protest? Sorry but I do not see union thuggery as the will of the people.

Somehow I doubt that the pu... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Somehow I doubt that the public is really protesting asking the teachers to pay 12.6% of their healthcare benefit and 5.8% of their pension when the public averages paying 20% of their healthcare benefit and 7.5% of their retirement.

Once again we see the unions claiming that their own special interest is somehow the interests of everyone else. And we see their lackies like woop, hyper and warchild ignorantly repeating talking points without bothering to do even the least bit of educating themselves on the subject.

Hint: being ignorant is why your side got creamed in the last election.

There isn't one cent of the... (Below threshold)
Woop:

There isn't one cent of these employee's salaries that wasn't agreed upon by the state's labor negotiators.

There isn't one perk that is in the union contract that isn't there because Wisconsin's management team involved in the negotiations agreed upon it.

EWvery salary, pension, working condition clause int he contract was agreed upon by state of Wisconsin's negotatiors and the union.

They agreed to it.

They signed the contract showing they agreed to it.

Now the conservative slime are trying to back out of the deal.

It's "bargaining" - a give and take negotiation between two parties - the union and the employer.

I'm not surprised that conservatives would want to reneg on the deal that was negotiated between the two parties. Everyone knows that these "conservatives" are nothing more than lying thugs whose word means absolutely nothing.

It's a negotiated contract. If the employer wants to change the contract, renegotiate.

"Why isn't the government l... (Below threshold)
warchild:

"Why isn't the government listening to the will of the people?"

Actually, the government is listening to the people who elected it to reign in government spending. Do you have a recent poll that shows otherwise? I doubt it since there hasn't been time to conduct one.
-------------
Funny how Republicans didn't buy that one after President Obama ran on on health care won, and won a large majority in both houses of congresses.

I've noticed two straw men ... (Below threshold)

I've noticed two straw men who've raised their ignorant heads:

The first has me associating collective bargaining with mob rule, which I did not. Collective bargaining is a legally recognized, orderly process for negotiation when it's granted by the people via the legislature.

Walking off your job, neglecting your duties in a cowardly flight out of state, as the democrat legislators did, or closing schools in order to trash up the state capital, and demonize the governor as 'hitler' whilst screaming your demands, as the teachers have done, is not legally recognized.

The other ignorant straw man has something to do with 'doing it with / without a tea bag.'

Time after time credible polls have shown that a firm majority of the U.S. citizens do not want 'Cap-n-Tax; ObamaCare; Amnesty for Illegals; Card Check, etc., yet this administration seeks to buy off opponents with multi-million dollar deals, then ram them down the people's throat in backroom deals in the dead of night or over holidays.

In Wisconsin, simply having a mob of 10,000 show up to trash the capital, demonize the governor as 'hitler' and scream demands does not negate the will of 4 million Wisconsin citizens who voted for change.

Or maybe straw men don't like change?

Well, Ezra Klein, who I kno... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Well, Ezra Klein, who I know you guys love to hate, said this about the situation:

"In English: The governor called a special session of the legislature and signed two business tax breaks and a conservative health care policy experiment that lowers overall tax revenues (among other things). The new legislation was not offset, and it turned a surplus into a deficit. As Brian Beutler writes, "public workers are being asked to pick up the tab for this agenda."

But even that's not the full story here. Public employees aren't being asked to make a one-time payment into the state's coffers. Rather, Walker is proposing to sharply curtail their right to bargain collectively. A cyclical downturn that isn't their fault, plus an unexpected reversal in Wisconsin's budget picture that wasn't their doing, is being used to permanently end their ability to sit across the table from their employer and negotiate what their health insurance should look like.

That's how you keep a crisis from going to waste: You take a complicated problem that requires the apparent need for bold action and use it to achieve a longtime ideological objective. In this case, permanently weakening public employee unions, a group much loathed by Republicans in general and by the Republican legislators who have to battle them in elections in particular. And note that not all public employee unions are covered by Walker's proposal; the more conservative public-safety unions -- notably police and firefighters, many of whom endorsed Walker -- are exempt."

So you see what is happening here. A GOP governor turns a surplus into a deficit, blames the teachers union, and not only demands they give up benefits they bargained for in good faith ( a contract is fucking SACRED when it's a banker's bonus, but when it's a teacher's pension, maybe not, right? ), but FOREVER give up their collective bargaining rights completely. The union is right to call bullshit on this cynical move.

Woop,The state can... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Woop,

The state cannot continue to pay the contract as it stands so there has to be a renegotiation. That is a fact and is not a partisan position.

The choice offered was that the unions can either accept the changes or they can lose their jobs. It would seem that they have chosen.

The problem is that the unions want to pretend like there is no recession that unemployment isn't hovering near 10% and that inflation isn't starting to take off. but the reality is that those things are happening, that the American public is very alarmed by the out of control spending that has been going on and they want it stopped. NOW! obama's budget was laughed at.

No one wants a spending freeze after we've jacked up spending the way we have the last 2 years. The people want spending cuts and all the dems are offering is a reduction in the increase that they have always called a cut.

The dems will be on the losing side of this even if they anage to win somehow in Wisconsin. A win in Wisconsin only hastens the inevitable collapse. The state cannot continue to spend money it does not have and increasing taxes will only drive business and jobs from the state. The debt burden in America is so high now that we cannot grow our way out of debt. We have to cut spending and unions and leftist thugs are the enemy of the rest of us who work for a living and pay those taxes.

As if on cue, Bruce appears... (Below threshold)
914:

As if on cue, Bruce appears and makes an ass of himself yet again.

"Well, Chris – Chris tha... (Below threshold)

"Well, Chris – Chris that actually is not true. There are 314 fire and police unions in the state. Four of them endorsed me. All the rest endorsed my opponent." -Guv.

What was that about 'calling bullshit'. You can substitute "Ezra" for "Chris (Wragge)" if you want.

Not true Brucy. You can wis... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Not true Brucy. You can wish it but it still won't be a fact.

Wisouncin has not money. They are broke. Like Ohio, Illinois, New Jersey, New York, etc. The average teacher makes 100K per year. They are asked to contribute 6% of their salary for their benefits. What do they do? Walk off the job. What do the dem's do? Walk off the job. It proves without a doubt that dem's have no concept of what work is. In the REAL world, you cannot do that. You are expected to work. You are expected to show up. You are expected to leave if you do not like the way things are. That is the REAL world. What the liberals and unions want is "special priviledges and exemptions". Well, that ship has sailed. The unions are crying like a bunch of canadians. ww

Here's the simple situation... (Below threshold)
sam:

Here's the simple situation:

The legislature gave the collective bargaining rights to the unions, the legislature will take it away.

Suck on it.

When it is GM motors and th... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

When it is GM motors and the Federal Government voids contracts in support of the Union that a good thing. We do not have to abide by law.

When teachers who are not allowed to strike close down schools for 3 days it a good thing.

When people are not allowed to work unless they are forced to join a union it is a good thing.

it is good for Unions to eliminate secret ballots so that people can be intimidated.

Citizens pay taxes. Those taxes goto pay for all government services this includes the Public worker salaries and benefits. This means Public workers are demanding that other people pay for their lifestyle.


If the unions are as powerful as they say then they will easily re certify each year, If the union members are as loyal as they claim to be then they will donate money without having the Union confiscate money from pay checks.


The majority of Public workers should not be in a union.
The deal was that public workers in order have a higher degree of job security would be paid less then private sector workers. Now we have reached point where they are paid more than private sector worker, have great job security and better retirement benefits that the people they are supposed to serve. If they want all the beanies they should be at will workers and subject to termination at any time.

First responders and some utilities workers need extra protection because there jobs are dangerous. Fire and Police are often on the front line and subject to a broad number of accusation and legal attacks can destroy them. They need strong protections against to ensure due process is carried out.

Office workers do not really need all those things.

Here's another simple fact:... (Below threshold)
sam:

Here's another simple fact:

88%+ of US workers work without union representation.

Let the other

Let the other 12% learn to ... (Below threshold)
sam:

Let the other 12% learn to live the same way.

Woop wrote:<blockquot... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Woop wrote:

There isn't one cent of these employee's salaries that wasn't agreed upon by the state's labor negotiators.

Nice try.

Walker's proposal is to eliminate collective bargaining as to expired contracts, not existing contracts. He has not proposed a breach of any existing contract. He's talking about going forward.

If some legislation brings about a breach of contract, then the unions have a lawsuit. However, the State is not now in breach of any contract. The teachers are in breach, however, since they aren't teaching, so the State can probably invalidate any existing contracts.

Bruce Henry wrote:<bl... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Bruce Henry wrote:

A GOP governor . . . demands they give up benefits they bargained for in good faith ( a contract is fucking SACRED when it's a banker's bonus, but when it's a teacher's pension, maybe not, right? ), but FOREVER give up their collective bargaining rights completely. The union is right to call bullshit on this cynical move.

Wrong. See # 38 above. Once the contract has expired, there's no obligation to continue to engage in collective bargaining. Walker, as the governor, doesn't want any more collective bargaining. Collective bargaining refers to making the contract. It is not contractual right in and of itself.

But, you get a bonus point for mindlessly repeating the liberal lie so well, and with caps.

Wisonsin democrats have per... (Below threshold)
RYan:

Wisonsin democrats have permanently given up any right whatsoever to complain about any republican fillibuster at any level. . since what they are doing is infinitely more absurd.

Is it possible for a leftis... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Is it possible for a leftist to post anything without lying?

Jim - only if they invoke N... (Below threshold)

Jim - only if they invoke Nazis instead.

Bruce Henry has the ... (Below threshold)
gnossoss papadopoulis:


Bruce Henry has the facts correct, absolutely correct, so, in ignoring him and his facts is it because you guys are just so invested in what Fox News tells you that you gave up on finding out the truth or is the Wizbang crowd just basically stupid?
I'm serious about this because, I mean, about 80% of Republicans either don't know or think that the President was born in another country. So you see that I have an honest question. Are you guys really as ignorant as you appear or is it an act? You know like when you all really though Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. Oh.....you still think that???

Iwog:So, if the t... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Iwog:

So, if the teachers take-home pay will result in a cut of 8% as opposed to what they bargained for, that's not giving up benefits they bargained for in good faith?

That's fine, though. A governor is within his rights to reopen negotiations, and to ask employees to take a pay cut for the greater good of the state. But that's not what's happening here.

And the larger issue, the right to collectively bargain on matters other than wages, is still under attack from Walker's proposed legislation. That's what caused the walkout, it seems to me. A union that can't bargain collectively, and strike if necessary, is no union at all.

This is nothing more than union-busting, naked for all the world to see. Walker is going after his political opponents, blaming them for a budget shortfall HE caused, and fanning Tea Party resentment and class envy. I hope he fails.

The facts are that the righ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The facts are that the right to collective barganing does not effect the existing contract.

The facts are also that the state does not have the money to keep everyone employed AND continue to pay their outrageous salaries and benefits. The Governor therefore offered the unions a choice, mass layoffs or concessions on future raises and pay a slightly larger part of their health care and retirement benefits but a rate still a fraction of what the rest of us pay. In return for the concessions on benefits and future raises the state would guarantee their jobs.

The unions have said that they want both the job guarantees and the fat cat raises and the virtually free benefits. They will find that the public does not care that much to ensure their 6 figure pay checks and their lifetime job security.

I like the Guv's latest ide... (Below threshold)
f1guyus:

I like the Guv's latest idea. If the Dems stay away cut funding for their staffs. Be a lot less editing of WikiPedia and leafleting of cars in the Madison mall parking lots but so be it.

"An election was held in Wi... (Below threshold)
davidt:

"An election was held in Wisconsin last November. The Republicans won. In a democracy, there are consequences to elections and no one, not even the public employees unions, are exempt from that. There are no guarantees that labor contracts, including contracts governing the most basic rights of unions, can’t be renegotiated, or terminated for that matter. We hold elections to decide those basic parameters. And it seems to me that Governor Scott Walker’s basic requests are modest ones–asking public employees to contribute more to their pension and health care plans, though still far less than most private sector employees do. He is also trying to limit the unions’ abilities to negotiate work rules–and this is crucial when it comes to the more efficient operation of government in a difficult time." Joe Klein.

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/

So Bruce I guess that you w... (Below threshold)
jim m:

So Bruce I guess that you would be against the position that FDR had that public employees should not be allowed to unionize since they hold what is essentially a monopoly position where the citizens can go nowhere else for services and thus they can hold the state or nation hostage until they get whatever it is they want no matter how unreasonable it is.

I know that you lefties think that FDR is just another right wing nutjob.

"Funny how Republicans didn... (Below threshold)
Howie:

"Funny how Republicans didn't buy that one after President Obama ran on on health care won, and won a large majority in both houses of congresses."
----------------------
No, they did and the Tea Party was born and the House was taken by the Republicans. The heathcare bill has been repealed in certain states. If people in Wisconsin are upset, vote out their elective officials - that is what Republicans did.

Funny that, last year when ... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Funny that, last year when the argument was whether bankers should get their fat bonuses after getting bailed out by taxpayers, Wizbang commenters insisted that a contract was a contract, by God!

But when a teacher insists that the state honor its contract and not cut his salary by 8%, a contract ain't worth the paper it's printed on.

Jim M, please cite a source other than this MacIver outfit that says that WI teachers get 6-figure paychecks. I call bullshit.

gnossoss papadopoulis... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

gnossoss papadopoulis

The argument that liberals made at the time was that contracts should be vacated because part of the money that went to their salaries came from Tax payer money. It strange that we can not look at FUTURE contract negations for people who receive 100% of their money from TAX PAYERS!

1. The bill ask the Teachers to contribute more money to their benefits but that would put them at 50% below the average private worker who is paying their salaries.
2. It removes collective bargaining everyone except Police, Fire and Corrections for FUTURE contracts.
3. Unlike Obma Care this is being done in full view and Democrats know their position is so week they will not even come to the floor to debate.
4. Now the Teachers are demanding that Taxes be raised on private sector so they can keep thier beniefts.
That is just plain stupid because Business is already leaving the state.
Higher taxes will help to push Business and people which will reduce revenue.
This of course is part 1, Once Unions are removed then you can start to eliminate dead wood and demand greater efficiency.

So I would be careful if I was a Public sector worker because over next 5 years you might be on the other side.

BTW very few people here side with the Government Bailout of the Banks, or Auto.
it time for return to common sense we need a paradigm shift. Big Government does not work, look at Greece, Greenland , UK.

For all you a "contract is ... (Below threshold)
Howie:

For all you a "contract is a contract" people, isn't going to work PART OF THAT CONTRACT?

Know what, Jim? I don't hav... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Know what, Jim? I don't have to agree with everything FDR ever did to be Democrat. Just as you don't have to agree with everything Herbert Hoover, or either Bush, or Teddy Roosevelt ever did to be a Republican. Stupid.

Why are police, fire, and c... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Why are police, fire, and corrections unions exempt from this proposed collective bargaining ban? Because they support Republicans in Wisconsin?

Is it a bad thing, or isn't it, that public sector workers can collectively bargain? Why is it bad for teachers but alright for cops?

I'm sure that what most her... (Below threshold)
groucho:

I'm sure that what most here don't know, are unwilling to acknowledge if they do know, or are ignoring, is that Walker gave away over 100 million dollars worth of budget surplus right after taking office to provoke this "crisis". This has nothing to do with money. The unions are willing to negotiate. This is the opening salvo of a nationwide campaign to break unions, specifically in the public sector.

Citizens united SC decision leads to overwhelming predominance of right wing/conservative campaign money influx into the political process. This is the start of the onslaught of the plutocrats to solidify their hold on your, mine, and our government. The enemy is not the union, it is the increasingly transparent corporate takeover of US.

Bruce,The teachers... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Bruce,

The teachers in Milwaukee get 56k in salary and something like 45k in benefits. So the term for the average teacher paycheck would be inaccurate. The distict administrators all get 100k+ salaries which are probably far more than their responsibilities demand.

Still most private sector employee benefits run to about 30% of their salary not nearly 100%. The benefits paid to teachers is way out of line and even more so when one considers that they pay only a tiny fraction compared to what everyone else has to pay for their healthcare and their retirement. Add to that the fact that teachers are paid for 9 months work, get far more holidays, and that TIAA-CREF offers a plan where teachers do not have to pay into social security and these people are making out like bandits. Trying to hold the state hostage to their unrealistic demands for higher than average pay raises unlimited job security and nearly free benefits is a form of banditry that should land them in jail if there were any justice.

Groucho, Thanks fo... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Groucho,

Thanks for the black helicopter post of the night. This has nothing to do with citizens united. That case was about the government and incumbant politicians specifically trying to muzzle opposition and to prevent anyone from speaking uot against them.

I would note that the law Citizens United over ruled specifically exempted unions so the dems big donors would not have been restricted from saying anything they wanted politically but anyone who might have been against them would have been fined or thrown in jail for speaking their mind. The left is outrageously hypocritical when it comes to freedom of speach and Citizens Unitied is a prime examplpe of how they want freedom for themselves and a prison cell for everyone else.

As for wisconsin I would love to hear how a $100 million in any way precipitates a $3 Billion plus shortfall in the state budget over the next two years. You guys must really be morons to fall for that line.

So you can't provide a cite... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

So you can't provide a cite, Jim?

Your favorite paper, the Washington Times, says total compensation is, on average, $77K for Wisconsin teachers. Including all fringe benefits.

Sounds like Wisconsin teach... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Sounds like Wisconsin teachers have a deal kind of similar to what congress gets. Maybe we should look into that too.

Whine, whine, whine. Thats ... (Below threshold)
914:

Whine, whine, whine. Thats all liberals do.

Bruce Henry wrote:<bl... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Bruce Henry wrote:

So, if the teachers take-home pay will result in a cut of 8% as opposed to what they bargained for, that's not giving up benefits they bargained for in good faith?

If their next contract is for a lower salary, it is not "what they bargained for."

Sorry, I don't have time for remedial civics, but you're the one who wanted to bring up contracts law. No one has given up what they have bargained for. No contracts will be breached. We're talking about future contracts.

The State employees may get paid less than what they want in the future, but *guess what* I'm paid less than what I want too.

Sorry you can't see the big... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Sorry you can't see the bigger picture Jim. Why did the governor spend the surplus so quickly instead of using it towards the billion dollar shortfall?

Can you cite an instance of anyone opposing "big dem donors" being thrown in jail? There is no freedom of speech issue here, try not to fall back on that dead warhorse.

This is an attempt to bust unions, not only in Wisconsin, but everywhere, to weaken the Democratic party. I think (and hope) that it will blow up in the face of the perpretators

Efforts to recall Wisconsin... (Below threshold)
davidt:

Efforts to recall Wisconsin State Senator Robert Wirch(D, on the lam) have been begun...

"Kenosha, WI -- Senator Robert Wirch is hiding out of state to avoid a vote on Governor Scott Walker’s budget repair bill. Kenosha area citizens have completed the necessary papers and will file on Monday to form an exploratory committee to recall Senator Robert Wirch. “The exploratory committee will be formed as a direct result of Senator Wirch’s failure to carry out his official duties in the State Senate,” said Daniel Hunt, leader of the recall exploratory committee “We need to inform Robert Wirch that his hiding in Illinois is unacceptable to the voters in his district, and that we are taking the first steps to remove him from office.”

Over the weekend the committee will evaluate the resources, time, and manpower required to successfully recall the senator. “Over the last year, Kenosha and Racine area Tea Party groups have proven their ability to mobilize thousands of people quickly and effectively,” said Hunt. To recall Senator Robert Wirch, the committee anticipates needing to collect over 15,000 signatures.

The committee is expected to file the paperwork with the Government Accountability Board on Monday, February 21st."

http://wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=227432

Citizens united was nothing... (Below threshold)
groucho:

Citizens united was nothing more than a conservative supreme court legislating from the bench and delivering the goods for the corporate elite.

Efforts to recall Wisconsin... (Below threshold)
davidt:

Efforts to recall Wisconsin State Senator Jim Holperin(D, on the lam) have been begun...

"EAGLE RIVER, WI -- Senator Jim Holperin is hiding out of state to avoid a vote on Governor Scott Walker’s budget repair bill. Northwood citizens will today complete and file paperwork for an exploratory committee to recall Senator Jim Holperin. “The exploratory committee is taking this action as Senator Holperin has failed to carry out his official duties in the State Senate,” said Kim Simac, leader of the recall exploratory committee “Jim Holperin needs to know that while he is hiding out in Illinois, voters in his district are taking the first steps to remove him from office.”

Over the weekend the committee will evaluate the resources, time, and manpower required to successfully recall the senator. “Northwoods Patriot groups and other organizations of tea party leaders have proven their ability to mobilize thousands of people quickly and effectively,” said Simac. To recall Senator Jim Holperin, the committee anticipates needing to collect over 15,000 signatures.

The committee is expected to file the paperwork with the Government Accountability Board by close of business Friday."

http://wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=227422

This is not about union bus... (Below threshold)
jim m:

This is not about union busting. This isn't looking to bust even all public unions nor is it trying to bust private sector unions.

This is about government employees and bloated payrolls and benefits. this is about government employees who earn more that their private sector counterparts, rarely face the risk of layoff or dismissal, and get benefits that far exceed the private sector at a fraction of the cost to them.

The big picture is that the states need to face the fact that their benefits and pensions are underfunded and that they cannot continue to pay people more than they are worth and give benefits that are so extravagant. Illinois is in crisis and they are ignoring the fact that their pension liability is going to crush the state's finances. The same goes for California and many other states.

Wisconsin is doing the right thing to confront their payroll and benefit problems now. The problem with the state employee unions is that they really do hold a monopoly. The state is a single source for a lot of services and these unions hold the taxpayer hostage.

Government employee unions were illegal until Kennedy IIRC. The left's cry of "this is destroying the tradition of unionism in America!" is a bunch of crap. Government employee unions were illegal for a raeson and we are seeing why now.

Why are police, fi... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:
Why are police, fire, and corrections unions exempt from this proposed collective bargaining ban? Because they support Republicans in Wisconsin?

The collective bargaining is for everything except salary. Specifically it is about work conditions.
A teacher is in class room. (yes some classrooms are dangerous but then who do they bring into those schools police officers) What does she need to bargain about work conditions is it teacher to student ratio?

A police or Firefighter may need to get new equipment to handle there jobs which is saving lives and protect private property. Union might want to negotiate about safety equipment, radios, hours. There might be new medical procedures for burns that they might need covered in their insurance. Then of course there are legal fees for when a Police officer discharges his weapon and the poltical winds might be influx.
In short they need greater protections because their job demands it from both, legal, physical and risk point of view.

Cops, Teachers and Firefighters all have job to do. Two of them need to put themselves in harms way as part of the job to do it. Those two need more say.

"EAGLE RIVER, WI -- Senator... (Below threshold)
914:

"EAGLE RIVER, WI -- Senator Jim Holperin is hiding out of state to avoid a vote on Governor Scott Walker’s budget repair bill"


Well, it's kind of poetic really. The dems are fugitives from the American Dream. If they cannot take, take , take from the taxpayer they run away like spoiled little children screaming "Mommy! They wont let Me win!"

Pathetic.

I am all for union busting.... (Below threshold)
sam:

I am all for union busting.

If 88% of the US workforce can work without unions, so can the remaining 12%.

Fire each of them, there are enough unemployed to fill their positions.

#69 "Fire e... (Below threshold)
914:

#69


"Fire each of them, there are enough unemployed to fill their positions."


Yes. Barry has made sure of that..

With 69% of Americans wayin... (Below threshold)
jim m:

With 69% of Americans waying that government employees should not have unions and 49% of democrats I think that the governor's position is pretty solid here. It is the dem politicians and the unions who are out of step with the country.

A project surplus of 1 bil... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

A project surplus of 1 billion dollars goes away because of tax break of 1 Million dollars if a Company relocates to Wisconsin and hires and pays 51% of employees in Wisconsin and remains there for 2 years. (allocation for the tax break is 100 million )

So in state with 7% unemployment getting a companies to hire people which would raise receipts by more people being employed will erase a 1 billion dollars surplus.

However we know that Business have been moving out of the state did the committee take that into account or did they just assume static numbers as more people are unemployed?

Even then if you have 1 B - 100M would you not have 900 M?
If that were false why did the dem run away instead of debating the issue?

I have doubts on the validity of the argument.
Wait could it be the same type of folk who told use Obama Care was budget neutral and then said Oh shite it will cost trillions.

At over $50k per year salar... (Below threshold)
jim m:

At over $50k per year salary (and yes $100k total compensation with benefits) the average Wisconsin teacher makes more than double the average Wisconsin citizen.

So much for he unions protecting the little guy. The unions today protect the moneyed interests.

On top of that their pay went up 4.7% last year and 21% over the last 10 years. Sounds like the people need protection from the unions.

I wonder if the cowardly cl... (Below threshold)
914:

I wonder if the cowardly clowns hiding out of State are doing so at Wisconsin taxpayer expense? Can add misappropriation of public funds to their long list of abuses.

Teachers salaries<a ... (Below threshold) Walker's tax incentives hav... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Walker's tax incentives have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the current year deficit. The projections the leftists are citing are for three years hence. The state is short THIS fiscal year, and next, before even any "static analysis" on the cuts figure into projections.

As usual, the left attempts to divert attention from the issue at hand. Do not be distracted by the straw men they set up.

The amounts of contribution the union employees would have to make to their retirement and health benefits would still leave them paying a smaller share than the private employees in the state pay for theirs - with lower pay and less job security. The unions are willing to "negotiate" this now, for the first time.

The unions' concern is the regular elections and the end to payroll deduction of dues. They know that once workers realize how much they pay the unions, they will lose their loyalty quickly.

The 100k compensation packa... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

The 100k compensation package refers to Milwaukee teachers. It's possible the average pay for the whole state is lower.

http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/03/average-mps-teacher-compensation-tops-100kyear/

As soon as a democrat uses ... (Below threshold)
RYan:

As soon as a democrat uses the words 'Corporate elite' you nwo they have switched off their brain. And that they should really look up the contributions and see who the 'corporate elite' really donated to.

Citizens united wa... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:
Citizens united was nothing more than a conservative supreme court legislating from the bench and delivering the goods for the corporate elite.

Another liberal lie. Citizens United said that corporations' free speech was protected by the First Amendment. This has been the law for over 50 years. This is not "legislating." It is upholding the Constitution, which is what courts are supposed to do.

After the liberals research the concept of "collective bargaining," they might want to research the concept of the supremacy of the Constitution.

Wisconsin is broke. Walker ... (Below threshold)
iwogisdead:

Wisconsin is broke. Walker wants to control spending. To do this, he wants to end collective bargaining for nearly all public employees (not just teachers) for everything except salary. IOW, primarily for benefits.

Walker wants to limit the increase in public employees' salaries in an effort to keep the state afloat financially. He wants public employees to contribute a small portion of their salaries toward their own pensions. These are hardly radical concepts, especially since the state is heading toward insolvency. For this, the teachers have breached their contract by not teaching and are occupying the capitol. Democrats ran away. They are acting like idiots.

Ending collective bargaining is hardly a radical concept either. Mitch Daniels de-certified all public employee unions in Indiana. Indiana is one of the few states that is financially stable.

The liberals should grow up and take their hysteria somewhere else.

Look Public Sector works as... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

Look Public Sector works as President Obama has said.

I do think at certain point you have made enough Money

Since they will be able to bargain for more pay I really do not see how this hurts them. http://etf.wi.gov/publications/et8901.pdf

They also have all the benefits of Labor Laws and extra protections as state workers. So it time for them to stop killing the goose aka Tax payer.

Tax Payers are loosing their jobs taking pay cuts facing insurance premiums that have gone up 30% .

Workers should save their u... (Below threshold)
sam:

Workers should save their union dues to pay for their own medical premiums and retirement.

Wisconsin's school teachers... (Below threshold)

Wisconsin's school teachers are America's Greeks!

And are revolting, too.

They are in the capital cha... (Below threshold)
Jim m:

They are in the capital chanting"tax the rich!" Since they earn two times the average income in wisconsin are they that unaware that they are the rich?

Tax the rich.See t... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

Tax the rich.

See that is the problem with Liberals they really believe that people will sit and take. Governor Corzine in NJ lured a number of Wall Street firms technical operations to NJ with tax breaks then decided to raise taxes.
He said where would they go? Well they went to Texas and Carolinas.
Companies and Wealthy people can take part of Federalism and move to lower Taxed states. They are not not beholden to stay and take it.

I say fire the teachers in Milwaukee 46% is the graduation for Public schools. I say teachers only get % of base pay that matches the graduation rate. That will save the state money. Hell the highest pension teachers get should be the graduation rate for their school districts.

Anyone willing to bet me th... (Below threshold)
Brucepall:

Anyone willing to bet me that the new Republican Governor is not from the upcoming Realist Generation and the Democratic State Senator Holperin is not from the Establishment Boomer generation? Duh...

What I see as really going on in Wisconsin... is the status quo is under pressure to change, and the entrenched powers that benefit the most from the established bureaucracy are resisting said change.

The fact that Wisconsin is on the cutting edge of the future, while California is not... also fits. I can already tell that the Democratic Governor of Cali is a Boomer...just look at his MO (it'd be redundant to look his party affiliation and age up on the web).

Any doubt about where this will end? And who will ultimately prevail?... even old school Cali will eventually acknowledge the need for change and come around. Yes, my friends, we live in interesting and exciting times.

Semper Fidelis-

FWIW, without even looking ... (Below threshold)
Brucepall:

FWIW, without even looking it up... I'd also bet Democratic State Senator Robert Wirch (from the thread above)... is also from the Boomer Generation - 1943 to 1961. Ditto for our current Democratic US President and the US Senate Majority Leader.

Yes, times will be a changing. From the other Bruce.

Semper Fidelis-

The trolls here think the G... (Below threshold)
howcome:

The trolls here think the Gov. should have used the $100 million to prop up the failing union contracts instead of trying to fix the underlying problem. How is that fixing the problem?

For those trying to say "Bu... (Below threshold)
Ryan M.:

For those trying to say "But they should honor their commitments and not break their contract!!!":

Since the bill wouldn't effect contracts until after the current one expires, you are completely full of it. Are you saying the Governor is obligated to honor the contract after it expires and must renew it exactly the same as it is now?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-18/wisconsin-ohio-target-government-union-contracts-correct-.html

The relevant bit:

"The bill wouldn’t affect employees until their contracts expire, said Peter G. Davis, general counsel of the Wisconsin Employment Relations Commission."

So please, find a new talking point. . .

union leaders are now offer... (Below threshold)
jim m:

union leaders are now offering concessions. Doesn't sound like the action of someone who is winning the argument. Sounds like they know they have screwed up. Sounds like the voters of Wisconsin can recognize when the unionized fat cats who earn double the average wage are needing to be cut off and those fat cats are now trying to find a way out of their predicament.

The WEAC has had too much p... (Below threshold)
Joseph Nemeth:

The WEAC has had too much power for too long. Go Scott Walker

lets say walker gives in a... (Below threshold)
gene willis:

lets say walker gives in and agrees to the two years for the state employees to pay into there health care and there retirement fund.the unions will then make sure that evryone of the state employees who payed into this will be given a 12 to 13% raise curtisy of the lowly tax payers.in othere words,the union thugs will take every last tax payer to task.that will be there collective bargganing.gov.walker,stand strong.we need a leader not a frightened democrat!




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