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Babes In The News

Warning: Ignore the cutesy title. This is an ugly piece. This article is going to talk about some truly disgusting things, some hideous examples of humanity's ability to be incredibly inhuman towards each other. Just researching it made me furious and almost physically ill.

 
In the past couple of weeks, several babes have been in the news of late. No, not attractive women, but infants and young children. And with one exception, it's not been pretty. In fact, it's been nothing short of nightmare fodder.

Yoav Fogel, age 11; Elad Fogel, age 3; Hadas Fogel, age 4 months.


These children were sleeping in their home when two brave, valiant, stalwart Palestinian freedom fighters crept in and slaughtered them in their beds, along with their parents -- Udi Fogel, age 38, and Ruth Fogel, age 35. The noble warriors missed two other children in their beds -- Roi, age 8; and Yishai, age 2.And Tamar Fogel, age 12, was visiting friends during the glorious blow for Palestinian freedom; she returned home to find the bodies.

The reaction of the Palestinians was entirely typical -- Party on, dude! And Hamas -- the terrorist group that is the legitimate government in the Gaza Strip -- reacted typically. They condemned the attack -- in English. In Arabic, they praised it.

"Jude," Palestinian Girl, age less than one week.

Days after the massacre of the Fogel family in the Neze Tzuf settlement, a pregnant Palestinian woman arrived at their front gate in a speeding cab. She was in advanced labor, and her baby had its umbilical cord wrapped around her throat. Paramedics and IDF medics immediately sprang into action, saving both mother and child.

Almost literally next door to where the Fogel family -- including four-year-old Hadas -- was being mourned.

Joseph Maraachli, age 1 year.

Joseph is a Canadian boy with a very serious medical condition. In fact, he will most likely die from his illness. His life could be prolonged with medical treatment, but there is pretty much no hope that he will survive.

His parents wanted him to have a tracheotomy performed and a breathing tube inserted, to give him a bit more time to live. The hospital refused, citing national regulations that gave them the right to deny care in what it considered terminal cases. The parents then decided to take him to another hospital -- an American one, if necessary -- to keep him alive.

The hospital refused to release him. In essence, they ruled that Joseph had to die, and had to die on their schedule.

The case drew international attention, and exposed an aspect of the Canadian free national health care  system -- you don't get much say in the treatment of you or those in your care. No, the big decisions are made by the government and the hospital. In other words, it's the Golden Rule in action -- them with the gold make the rules. If you decide to let the government pick up the tab, then you don't get the right to make the big decisions.

That's when a group of Catholic pro-life activists got involved. Priests For Life got baby Joseph transferred to a Catholic hospital in St. Louis, Missouri, where he will get the tracheotomy his parents want.

Make no mistake. He will, in all likelihood, die. And he might suffer more than if he'd died on the original hospital's schedule. But his parents' wishes are being honored, not some government bureaucratic schedule.

Jayden Capewell, age 1 day

This week, one of the top people in England's National Health Service made a recommendation: babies born before 23 weeks should not be treated, but simply left to die. Dr. Daphne Austin made her report largely in response to the 2009 case of Jayden Capewell.

Sarah Capewell was not having an easy pregnancy. She ended up delivering her son prematurely. Very prematurely -- her pregnancy was only 21 weeks, 5 days along.

Which happens to match the record for the most premature baby to ever survive. James Elgin Gill is now a 22-year-old college student and devoted rugby player.

Unfortunately for Jayden, England's national health care system has "guidelines" for premature infants. If the baby is born before 23 weeks are to be denied any medical treatment and left to die. Of course, these are mere "guidelines" but not rules, but anyone who has ever dealt with a bureaucracy knows what that means -- if you don't follow them, you better be ready to accept any and all consequences on your own, because they will not back up your judgment call. It's far safer to simply obey them and avoid any difficulties later.

Young Jayden was breathing on his own, his heartbeat was strong, and he was moving his tiny arms and legs. And not only did the hospital refue to give him any treatment, they brought in a bereavement counselor to discuss his funeral -- even before he was born.

Within two hours of being born, Jayden died. And even then the hospital didn't want to fully acknowledge that for those two hours, he had lived. Sarah had to fight to get them to issue him a birth and death certificate, so he could be properly buried.

Again, like in Canada, this is a logical extension of the nationalized health care system. When the government is paying the check, they get to decide how big a check that will be. That means that they can set the prices of procedures -- and even if certain treatments should be provided for in the first place.

Yoav Vogel, Elad Vogel, Hadas Vogel, "Jude," Joseph Maraachli, Jayden Capewell. Four of them dead, thanks to politics. A fifth dying, but not at the direction of bureaucrats and policies. And a sixth alive -- because Israelis love life more than Palestinians love death.

We live in a very ugly world.

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Comments (73)

Note that the left supports... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Note that the left supports all of this with the exception of the Israelis saving the child's life.

jim m says it all quite wel... (Below threshold)

jim m says it all quite well.

Truly disgusting examples o... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Truly disgusting examples of how far humanity as a whole has sunk. Canada does not surprise me at all. Hyper has the same "I know what is better for everyone then you do" attitude. ww

I'm not reading your piece.... (Below threshold)
Timmer:

I'm not reading your piece. I caught the stories I believe you're referring to once or twice already this week and I refuse to put them through my head again. I normally pray for mercy, I did say a prayer for justice in these cases.

So when is the Canadian tro... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

So when is the Canadian troll going to come to the aid of his "wonderful" medical care system?

Why would you expect me to ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Why would you expect me to defend a bureaucrat's decision to force a child to die?

I see no reason why the hospital shouldn't have allowed the parents to find another provider of care, or to pay for the prolonged treatment out of pocket.

Willie, there is a reason that people either ignore you, or insult you: when anyone you disagree with has tried to be polite--i.e. Paul Hooson's quixotic quest to be decent and respectful to you--you continue to speak condescendingly to them. Your comments are universally smarmy and without depth.

jim m, please find an example of a "leftist" endorsing the murder of Israeli children, or apologize.

"there is a reason that peo... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

"there is a reason that people either ignore you, or insult you..."

Pot: Oooohhhh, look over there!!!! A kettle!

Boring comment from a guy c... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Boring comment from a guy calling himself Sheik Yur Bouty who has never listened to this album before.

http://www.science.uva.nl/~robbert/zappa/files/jpg/Sheik_Yerbouti.jpg

Anyway, I'd still like someone to provide an example of a liberal/leftist applauding the murder of Israeli children/babies. Being opposed to settlement expansion, and being opposed to the ghettoization of Palestinians more generally, does not entail being in favour of child murder. You fucking assholes.

hyper, which side is far mo... (Below threshold)

hyper, which side is far more inclined to support the "Palestinian freedom fighters" and denounce "Zionist aggressions?" Which side keeps calling Hamas a potential "partner for peace" and urges Israel to make more and more concessions? Which side pushed for the freedom of Samir Kuntar, another Palestinian child-killer?

Here's a hint: it wasn't my side.

J.

Hypergirlie spit a cock out... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Hypergirlie spit a cock out of its mouth long enough to spew this bullshit

Why would you expect me to defend a bureaucrat's decision to force a child to die?
I see no reason why the hospital shouldn't have allowed the parents to find another provider of care, or to pay for the prolonged treatment out of pocket.

You've posted countless times in the past about how much better the Canadian health care system is than the American model, so back it up, go ahead and tell us how much better it is.

As for your second comment asshole:

The parents then decided to take him to another hospital -- an American one, if necessary -- to keep him alive.

The hospital refused to release him. In essence, they ruled that Joseph had to die, and had to die on their schedule.

The parents WANTED to pay out of pocket, but your fucking system killed the kid. Congratulations, asswipe.

You should to be put up against the wall and shot.

hyperBS,Yeah, I've... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

hyperBS,

Yeah, I've heard that Zappa crap a few times over the years and have never responded to it.

Basically, I've heard of him, but was never a fan. If it weren't for you stoner asswipes, I still wouldn't know (or care, really) that he had an album named similarly to a name I use here. He was certainly not the inspiration for this name. I could tell you exactly what the inspiration was, but it's much more fun to simply let you idiots bask in your self proclaimed superiority.

If you'd prefer, I'd consider changing my name to either:

Eff Ewe Hyper

or

Ayuf bin Pharteen

I would just use the first one whenever responding to you, but frequent name changes are frowned upon here, unlike Ace's place. I don't want to awaken Thor.

hyperbolist's reputation fo... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

hyperbolist's reputation for dishonesty is well deserved. The Left has a loooooong tradition of apologizing for murderers, from Stalin to Mao to Ho to Arafat.

Nice mouth, too - kiss your mother with that? Or did she blow herself up to kill some Jews?

Correction, I did respond t... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Correction, I did respond to hyperBS once before on the Zappa thing, but it apparently didn't take.

hyperBS,<a href="h... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:
Hyper"Anyway, I'd ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper

"Anyway, I'd still like someone to provide an example of a liberal/leftist applauding the murder of Israeli children/babies"

http://www.haaretz.com/news/demonstrators-cry-nuke-israel-carry-hezbollah-flags-at-u-s-anti-israel-rallies-1.267500

Demonstrators cry 'nuke Israel,' carry Hezbollah flags at U.S. anti-Israel rallies

Gee if you advocate nuking someone then generally children will die in the process.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/01/protesting_against_israel_or_h.html

Several of the protestors, for instance, carried signs saying "Nuke Israel," a sentiment that was also shouted out to pro-Israel counter-demonstrators standing across the street.

For some more examples of your brethren leftists wanting to indiscriminantly kill Jews (including children)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22nuke+israel%22+signs+protest&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Of course you will say these dont count but will argue vehemently that when Sarah Palin says to "reload" she is calling for the murder of dem politicians.

HyperAlso here is ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper

Also here is Hams calling for the killing of Jewish children

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22kill+jewish+children%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

And here are folks who are supporting Hamas in either word or deed.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=democrats+supporting+Hamas&sa=X&ei=mqSDTeHQKJKw0QGz8Om_CA&ved=0CBMQgwM


You cant seperate the two.


So Hamas = all western libe... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

So Hamas = all western liberals now? I'm a fan of Hezbollah, because I vote NDP? You people are thick.

Not liking the Israeli government does not logically force one to like the various political entities that represent the Palestinian people. I hate Zionists and I hate child murderers and I hate people who think women should cover their faces in public. Clear?

Kenny, are you illiterate? Did you read what I said? It was critical of the healthcare system. I wasn't defending it. Whereas, in your case, wishing execution on someone is indicative of severe psychological distress. If there are children on this planet unfortunate enough to have you as their father, I hope for their sake that they don't read the shit you smear all over the internet. You are a stupid, homophobic, ultra-violent disgrace to your species.

Sheik: Zappa wasn't a stoner. He kicked people out of his band for using drugs. And I'm not a stoner. Weed is for college kids. Stereotypes are fun, though. Read #18:
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/quotes/zappa.html

HyperTalk about th... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper

Talk about thick

YOU STATED

""Anyway, I'd still like someone to provide an example of a liberal/leftist applauding the murder of Israeli children/babies"

"

Since I gave you multiple examples you now want to call me thick and have me equate ALL leftists with the EXAMPLES (which you asked for).


Here Hyper let me quote you

"You fucking asshole"

Hyper "Kenny, are ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper

"Kenny, are you illiterate? Did you read what I said'

Obviously you are illiterate and DONT READ WHAT YOU SAID. Here let me quote it for you again.

"Anyway, I'd still like someone to provide an example of a liberal/leftist applauding the murder of Israeli children/babies"
"

BTW for those leftists like hyper who are illiterate. AN EXAMPLE means ONE EXAMPLE. We have given MULTIPLE to show that he is clueless but instead wants to try to dodge his own statement.

I clicked around, retired m... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I clicked around, retired military, and all I could find were pictures of conservative Muslims wishing death on Israelis. Perhaps you saw a photo I didn't--if so, do share.

HyperConservative ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper

Conservative muslims? You mean like John Kerry? Come on guy do better than that.

"I hate Zionists and I hate child murderers and I hate people who think women should cover their faces in public. Clear?"

Hey I read somewhere that Hitler liked puppies too.


Hyperfrom page 1 o... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper

from page 1 of the google search for dems supporting Hamas

"1. Top Democrat meets Hamas-supporting group
Apr 8, 2007 ... Pelosi's and Hoyer's visits are the latest reports of Democrats meeting with terror supporting groups.
1. Democrats Ask Holder To 'Repair' Relations With Hamas-Linked Group ...
Aug 5, 2009 ... The letter from seven House Democrats has all the hallmarks of ... and the government charged members of the charity with supporting Hamas

1. Sen. John Kerry Letter Supporting Code Pink's Hamas-Aid Gaza ...
Feb 4, 2010 ... +John+Kerry+Letter+Supporting+Code+Pink%27s+Hamas-Aid+Gaza+Freedom+March2010-02-04+16%3A57%3A06 ... Democrats support Code Stink! Pathetic! ...


1. Boker tov, Boulder!: I'll be damned: 42 pct. of Democrat ...
Mar 3, 2011 ... I'll be damned: 42 pct. of Democrat Congressmen attending J-Street Gala support HAMAS and/or are supported by CAIR
"

Doesnt look like conservative muslims to me.

Oh, the ad Hitler fa... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Oh, the ad Hitler fallacy. You're not stupid, so let's chock that up to laziness.

When did John Kerry endorse the killing of Israelis? Post the link, liar.

Speaking of thick...<... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Speaking of thick...

HyperBS,

Both times you've brought up Zappa to me, I've told you (basically) that I know who he is, but don't listen to him and am not a fan. Yet, you persist in bringing up irrelevant minutiae about the man as thought it has any meaning outside your brain damaged head.

And for the record, I never said Zappa used drugs. However, I have known some of this fans, and of those I knew, ALL of them DID. Therefore, my statement stands, and you still have reading comprehension issues.

Finally, please don't bring up Zappa to me again. I'm done with the subject.

Cordially,

Eff Ewe Hyper

"Post the link, liar."... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

"Post the link, liar."

Note to all: hyper has now gone full LEE WARD.

No, really, I would like to... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

No, really, I would like to see a quote from John Kerry endorsing the murder of Israelis (or anyone, for that matter).

Since John Kerry (obviously) never said such a thing, retired_military is either lying, or I was mistaken when I said that he isn't stupid.

It's not even necessary to ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

It's not even necessary to show that the left is openly applauding these kinds of things. It is sufficient to say that they put their support behind all these causes.

They support socialized medicine and the inhuman choices that it makes and the suffering it causes, which is far greater than the suffering they claim is caused by our health care system up to now.

They support the palestinians and their cause and they heap criticism on the Israelis. Yet the Israelis are the ones who show mercy to the arabs in their midst and not vice versa.

The left will be quick to assert that while they support these things in general they don't like the specific manifestation of them. They need to deal with the fact that the palestinian cause in inextricably connected to groups that have as their reason for existance the extermination of the Jewish people. They have to deal with the fact that socialized medicine by necessity comes with bureuacratic committees that decide who gets treatment and who does not and whether you call the death counsils or no they pretty much amount to exactly that.

The left continues to live in a fantasy world that says that they can have their perfect world without any of the consequences that necessarily come from their beliefs.

Sheik: Hey, I like Zappa!</... (Below threshold)

Sheik: Hey, I like Zappa!

Hyper: you're quite right. There is a difference between "applauding the killing of Israeli children" and "applauding people who kill Israeli children."

Such a crucial distinction. So nuanced. No wonder we ignorami missed it.

J.

"No, really, I would like t... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

"No, really, I would like to see a quote from John Kerry endorsing the murder of Israelis (or anyone, for that matter)."

The funny thing is, you'd think that someone with a moniker like 'hyperbolist' would understand hyperbole...

They have to deal with t... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

They have to deal with the fact that socialized medicine by necessity comes with bureuacratic committees that decide who gets treatment and who does not and whether you call the death counsils or no they pretty much amount to exactly that.

Whereas with private insurance companies, everybody gets every treatment they want and nobody ever dies. Sunshine and rainbows and freedom and lollipops for all.

JT,Hey, I didn't s... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

JT,

Hey, I didn't say he sucked or anything. Just not my taste in music.

Also, I'm not accusing you of being a stoner. It's just that of all the Zappa fans I've met, they've all at least dabbled in herb, if not other substances. Could be overlap with other interests, cause they were all dead heads too...

It wasn't hyperbole. I aske... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

It wasn't hyperbole. I asked for an example of a liberal/leftist endorsing the murder of the three Israeli children (and their parents), and instead retired_military posts links to right-wing websites that have a couple of photos of right-wing Muslims calling for the destruction of the state of Israel. And then he cited John Kerry as a specific example.

Jay, everyone likes at least one Zappa song, even if they don't know it's a Zappa song. Probably the most prolific recording artist of all time.

As for the distinction, Jay, it actually is pretty fucking significant. I assume you don't have nice things to say about American/NATO troops/pilots murdering women and children in Iraq or Afghanistan, but you don't let these incidents colour your opinion of the military as a whole nor those particular missions. Hamas are shit, but the Palestinian people are not, and their cause (establishing a state) is legitimate. Good for certain Democratic politicians for acknowledging as much.

Here's a nuance you'... (Below threshold)

Here's a nuance you're missing, hyper. The examples you cited were accidents -- and when it's not, we punish those. With Hamas, it's POLICY.

Hamas are shit, but the Palestinian people are not...

The Palestinian people ELECTED Hamas, and the Palestinian people CELEBRATED this slaughter. That makes them "shit" to me.

And you, worse. Because, in theory, you're supposed to know better.

J.

HyperYou misquote ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper

You misquote me, you dont read what I said etc.

The left supports Hamas (not all the left but some of them). Hamas supports killing of Israeli children. Therefore some of the left supports the killing of Israeli children. Especially the leftists who were out there shouting "nuke israel" which would indeed kill jewish children.

You asked for AN example. You got several. Once again you want to deny something that is more than obvious to everyone else.

Hypergirlie,<blockquo... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Hypergirlie,

Whereas, in your case, wishing execution on someone is indicative of severe psychological distress. If there are children on this planet unfortunate enough to have you as their father, I hope for their sake that they don't read the shit you smear all over the internet. You are a stupid, homophobic, ultra-violent disgrace to your species.

My comment to you was a direct quote of what a Democratic Senator said of a republican challenger in October of last year.

Interesting how it was perfectly acceptable speech then, but the same words now is indicative of sever psychological distress and I'm a a stupid, homophobic, ultra-violent disgrace to my species.

Thank you hypergirlie, for putting your blatant hypocrisy on display yet again.

Now run along, little cock-sucking shithead. Didn't mommy tell you not to play on her computer?

Hyper,Supporting o... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Hyper,

Supporting organizatrions that have as their express objective the destruction of the Israeli state is to endorse the murder of Israelis.

You can play word games all you like but that is the case. You cannot support Hamas and you cannot support Fatah without supporting the murder of Jews since both have as part of their charter a pledge to end the existance of Israel.

The left holds the position that Israel is an apartheid state (a ridiculous assertion as anyone who bothered to look at South Afrika and the current state of affairs in Israel would be able to see that this is not true), and it holds that the entirety of the blame for the conflict lies on Israel. The left ignores the repeated violence of the palestinians and the obvious aim to kill Israelis and to exterminate them from the middle east.

Hyper is like other leftists, stuck in a fantasy world where his beliefs and the causes he supports have no real world consequences that he doesn't intend.

I agree that people in demo... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I agree that people in democratic societies are responsible for their elected governments. How else would you expect people to vote, though, when they are born in a ghetto, grow up in a ghetto, and die in a ghetto? jim m just accused liberals of living in a fantasy world. I guess it's a different sort of fantasy world, though, where people would expect the Palestinian electorate to be motivated by something other than anger.

Jay TeaCan you go ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Jay Tea

Can you go ahead and ban Hyper. His entertainment value doesnt make up for his total cluelessness, dodging of questions, total acceptance of reality when his questions are answered, and his general inability to compete in a battle of wits (because he has none).

Here we have a man who previously stated that doctors should be able to kill newborns under certain circumstances totally denying what is as plain as the nose on his face.

Just say what you really fe... (Below threshold)

Just say what you really feel, hyper -- you can't expect them dumb sand nigras to act like human beings.

You'll feel better if you're just honest.

J.

Kenny, is it okay for you t... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Kenny, is it okay for you to wish death on someone because a "Democrat" politician did the same thing? That's the standard to which you hold yourself? it's telling that you resort to homophobic and misogynistic insults. Telling, because misogynists resent women because they have failed for an entire lifetime at earning their affection; and telling, because homophobic people have a subconscious desire to have sex with men. Maybe beating the shit out of a woman and being sent to prison for some sexy times would let you kill two birds with one stone? Degenerate scumbag.

retired_military, I don't accept that offering support for Hamas in 2007 means having to accept the murder of children as a necessary corollary of the advancement of the Palestinian cause. I don't accept that, because I understand elementary principles of logic.

Sorry, hyper -- Hamas has h... (Below threshold)

Sorry, hyper -- Hamas has had "killing Jews indiscriminately" as their #1 agenda item from day one. They've never wavered from that. It's in their frigging charter.

So yeah, backing Hamas means backing -- or at least tolerating -- their agenda.

Which is the obliteration of Israel by the indiscriminate killing of Jews, and the institution of Sharia law in its place.

J.

That's a great defense, Jay... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

That's a great defense, Jay. It's like accusing proponents of affirmative action of being racist. It's clever sleight-of-hand, but ultimately vacuous. It denies the role that historical and sociological forces play in the development of our individual and collective values.

retired_military, don't be such a turd. Repeating a shitty argument nine times does not make your argument less shitty, and crying to a moderator because you failed to persuade someone that all liberals love the slaughter of Israeli babies makes you look pathetic.

#42 was directed at #39.</p... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

#42 was directed at #39.

As for #41, so long as the Palestinian people are ghettoized and treated like shit by Israelis, and used as puppets or ignored by Arab (and Persian) countries, they will express their dissatisfaction with life in general by voting for Hamas, and the violence will continue. Que sera, sera.

"Maybe beating the shit out... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"Maybe beating the shit out of a woman and being sent to prison for some sexy times would let you kill two birds with one stone"

Now we are getting into Hyper's fantasies. heaven help us.

"I don't accept that, because I understand elementary principles of logic.

"

Hyper

Liberal logic != logic.

If you understood logic than you would follow it.

I bet if I said prove the tea party is racist you would come up with some picture which purports what you believe is racism. That doesnt prove the tea party is racist. it proves one idiot had a sign which may or may not be racist. Yet folks on the left all the time purport that the tea party is filled with bigots and racists.

Now we get back to your statement "Show me AN EXAMPLE..."

Which we have. We havent said all dems support Hamas or the killing of Jewish children. We have however, met your burden of proof which you choose to deny time after time after time.

A person doesnt have to stand on a street corner shouting to the rooftops "kill jewish children" to be for it. If you had never made a statement about being proabortion would that mean that you were against abortion?

Simple logic. Which you claim to understand but to which you are painfully and obvious clueless about.

Hyper<a href="http:/... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/03/liberal-icon-helen-thomas-praises-palestinian-suicide-bombers/

Helen Thomas

"“Of course I don’t condone any violence against anyone,” said Thomas, when asked about Palestinian terrorism against the Israelis. “But who wouldn’t fight for their country? What would any American do if their land was being taken? Remember Pearl Harbor. The Palestinian violence is to protect what little remains of Palestine. The suicide bombers act out of despair and desperation.”

"

That is like saying I dont condone Hitler killing the jews but hey I think he was right in doing so.


Did I say the Tea Party is ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Did I say the Tea Party is racist?

I taught logic for three years, one of those years as an undergrad, teaching it to computer science students. And I'm not sure you even know what the word means. YOU are the one who purported to demonstrate that "the left" wants Israel to be destroyed, by showing pictures of CONSERVATIVE MUSLIMS holding signs with stupid shit written on them.

I support my government, but I don't support its exploitation of the tar sands oil deposit in Alberta. I support the Toronto Blue Jays, but I didn't support them signing Vernon Wells to a $110+ million contract. I support my girlfriend, but I don't support her smoking cigarettes. I support the Palestinian people, but I don't support the murder of Israeli children. And, I guaran-fucking-tee it, if you had any liberal friends, and you asked them if they support the advancement of the Palestinian cause through murder, none of them would say they do. Did Hamas succeed at persuading a bunch of stupid politicians that they want peace with Israel? Yes. Do any of those politicians want Hamas to kill Israelis? No.

Ergo (look that word up, it's a logic word!), I don't accept what you're saying. Capiche?

"Did I say the Tea Party is... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"Did I say the Tea Party is racist?"

Obviously reading isnt your strong suit either. Did I say you said the tea party is racist? Umm No. I was given a hypothetical situation which given your name you should understand.

If you taught logic for 3 years I can see why so many people are stating that teachers are lousy these days.

"YOU are the one who purported to demonstrate that "the left" wants Israel to be destroyed, by showing pictures of CONSERVATIVE MUSLIMS holding signs with stupid shit written on them."

Actually I gave you a generic link which showed that Hamas supported killing Israeli children and another generic link to a google search which shows (and I listed 4 instances above) dems supporting Hamas.

Next up Hyper will state that Helen Thomas is a conservative muslim.


Oh, Helen Thomas. Great. Sh... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Oh, Helen Thomas. Great. Show me a Helen Thomas and I'll show you an Ann Coulter (convert the Muslims to Christianity at gunpoint), or a Pat Buchanan (Hitler apologist), or a John McCain (sat on the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom).

So, you proved your point (though it took you a few hours): there is at least one leftist that people have heard of who (sort of) justifies the violence against the Israelis. Bravo. Would you now say that your belief that "the left" condones the killing of Israelis is justified?

BTW HyperYour argu... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW Hyper

Your arguements about supporting X but not supporting Y would carry a little more weight if Hamas stood for something other than just the bringing about of a Palestian state via the destruction of Israel. Since that is all they stand for however your arguments are like you . Pissing in the wind.

Again you asked for AN example of a leftist supporting the killing of Israeli children and above we have Helen Thomas fully stating that what Hamas is doing is correct but she doesnt support violence against anyone. That is like saying "I think Hitler taking over Europe is the right thing to do but I dont advocate violence to do it"

You cant have one without the other. You just refuse to see it.

HyperYou asked for... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hyper

You asked for AN Example. I didnt. I mean I would have probably never posted if you hadnt asked for an example.

I also never stated that my belief was " that "the left" condones the killing of Israelis is justified?"

Some of the left do condone the killing of Israelis and feels it is justified. Something which you asked for an example of and were given several of but which you denied. It is only when you have absolute proof (when you have nutcakes like Helen Thomas on your side eventually they say what they feel) that you admit to what everyone else knows is true.

"Show me a Helen Thomas and... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"Show me a Helen Thomas and I'll show you an Ann Coulter (convert the Muslims to Christianity at gunpoint), or a Pat Buchanan (Hitler apologist), or a John McCain (sat on the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom).

"

Note that I didnt say "show me an example of someone on the right who has said something controversial".

YOu started this discussion. I merely finished it. Which is an event which has happened on this board on more than one occasion.

hyper, when you were teachi... (Below threshold)

hyper, when you were teaching logic, you should have paid a bit more attention.

You were challenged on the Canadian case. YOU chose to say "Hamas ain't so bad," or words to that effect -- apparently to get the attention off the Canadian aspect.

And here are some things you can't dispute:

1) Hamas was legally elected by the Palestinian people as the legitimate government of the Gaza Strip.

2) Hamas' primary purpose is the indiscriminate killing of Jews. All else is in the service of that purpose.

3) By voting for Hamas, the Palestinian people endorsed their policy of the indiscriminate killing of Jews.

4) By supporting Hamas, their backers are endorsing the indiscriminate killing of Jews.

Let me put it in terms you might understand: it's like saying "I support the legalization of pot, but I don't want to make it legal for people to smoke it. They can make hemp out of it, or bake it into brownies, or whip up bouquets, or wear it like a garland, but I hope they don't actually smoke it."

"Disingenuous" would be kind. "Transparent bullshit" would be more accurate.

J.

I asked for an example, and... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I asked for an example, and you dug one up. You proved that there is at least one left-leaning individual who defends Hamas' use of violence to further their political goals. Good on you!

I guess my problem here is that people make generalizations about 'the left', whatever amorphous organization that may be, with no real evidence, and it took you hours to find a single example to support the generalization. And it's Helen Thomas, who is literally 90 years old.

"Why would you expect me... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

"Why would you expect me to defend a bureaucrat's decision to force a child to die?

I see no reason why the hospital shouldn't have allowed the parents to find another provider of care, or to pay for the prolonged treatment out of pocket."

So I did address the injustice. Do I need to renounce my citizenship?

And not once did I say anything nice about Hamas.

"I guess my problem here is... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"I guess my problem here is that people make generalizations about 'the left', whatever amorphous organization that may be, with no real evidence, and it took you hours to find a single example to support the generalization"

a. My sole purpose in life is not to disprove your bullshit so excuse me for not digging up Helen earlier. Generally I dont waste my time proving obvious facts to people.

b. Some folks on the left to include the MSM is guilty of doing what you ascribe all the time, (tea party, Catholic church, etc) without offering a shred of proof at anytime.

c. You just dont like it because someone called you on your bullshit. Now go sulk in the corner like a good little baby.

BTW for more of Helen's ran... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW for more of Helen's rantings to Play boy go here

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/03/18/helen-thomas-israelis-want-take-palestinians-homes-and-land-and-water

We have such great quotes from her such as

"Did a Jew write this?"

"
This is a rotten piece. I mean it’s absolutely biased and totally—who are these people? Why do they think they’re so deserving? The slaughter of Jews stopped with World War II."

"
PLAYBOY: In a speech in Detroit last December, you told an Arab group, “We are owned by the propagandists against the Arabs. There’s no question about that. Congress, the White House and Hollywood, Wall Street, are owned by the Zionists. No question, in my opinion. They put their money where their mouth is. We’re being pushed into a wrong direction in every way.” Do you stand by that statement?

THOMAS: Yes, I do. I know it was horrendous, but I know it’s true. Tell me it’s not true and I’ll be happy to be contradicted. I’m just saying they’re using their power, and they have power in every direction.

and much much more.


Hypergirlie,<blockquo... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Hypergirlie,

I guess my problem here is that people make generalizations about 'the left', whatever amorphous organization that may be, with no real evidence

No, No No, you're looking in the mirror again. YOU make generalizations about tae partiers without any facts to back them up. WE can back up with examples the crap pulled by people on the left.

YOU're the one who will excuse any behavior committed by a leftist, but then CONDEMN it if it is repeated by someone on the right.

Hey, wanna make a quick $100,000? It'll save you from sucking another 400,000 cocks, but I forgot, you enjoy that. I think Brietbarts offer still stands, just show where the tea partiers used racial slurs agains John Conyers in that demonstration in Washington last year when Obamacare was forced through.

Yeah, that wonderful health care that will lead to killing babies just like Canada does.

You must be so proud....

Hyper ventilated:<bl... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Hyper ventilated:

I guess my problem here is that people make generalizations about 'the left', whatever amorphous organization that may be, with no real evidence, and it took you hours to find a single example to support the generalization

This would be different from what you do to the "right" and the US on regular basis in what way? Aside from the fact that an example was provided.

BTW Hyper'took you... (Below threshold)
retired military:

BTW Hyper

'took you hours to find a single example "

a SINGLE example was all that was asked for. Typical lefty. You ask for something, you get it and you are still not satisfied.

Kenny, there you go again w... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Kenny, there you go again with the misogyny and homophobia. You've got male genitals on the brain, fella. It's 2011, you don't need to hide in the closet anymore.

Congrats, hyper. You've suc... (Below threshold)

Congrats, hyper. You've successfully managed to change the subject from the Canadian health care system killing children, the British health care system killing children, and Hamas killing children to "the mean old right-wingers are picking on us innocent lefties."

Now that you've had your fun, wanna talk about the actual article?

Thought not.

J>

What is there to talk about... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

What is there to talk about? It's sad when children die. Medical bureaucrats are often heartless villains. Terrorists kill innocent people.

Profound stuff, Jay.

"I guess my problem here is... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"I guess my problem here is that people make generalizations about 'the left', whatever amorphous organization that may be, with no real evidence, and it took you hours to find a single example to support the generalization
"

Funny how Hyper stands here and does exactly what he has accused us of doing for the past 2 hours.

It is also funny how Hyper'... (Below threshold)
retired military:

It is also funny how Hyper's original request

"Anyway, I'd still like someone to provide an example of a liberal/leftist applauding the murder of Israeli children/babies"


somehow morphed into

Someone provided me an example of someone on the left whose name I recongize, who isnt 90 years old, and who is on video as saying "I want jewish babies to die horrendous deaths no matter who they are" and 5 affidavits from various video experts attesting to the fact that the video has been unaltered and is in full context before I will admit that it is true. And you have 5 seconds to provide such proof or it will be totally discounted.

What is there to talk ab... (Below threshold)

What is there to talk about? It's sad when children die. Medical bureaucrats are often heartless villains. Terrorists kill innocent people.

Sometimes, it's worth remembering these things. Especially when considering giving more power to those bureaucrats or sanction to terrorists.

And you, chump, are Example 1 of why it's necessary to remind everyone of those facts.

Although, in your case, it's pretty clear that you don't draw that logical connection.

Or won't.

J.

rm,Said evidence c... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

rm,

Said evidence cannot be more than 30 days old, either.

-syb

SYBAnd must come f... (Below threshold)
retired military:

SYB

And must come from a source that Hyper does not classify as right wing. (of course that depends on what the day of the week is and whether or not he has utilized that source as trustworthy in previous posts within a 2 day period).

I asked for an example. You... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I asked for an example. You finally provided one, after your first four attempts at doing so were shown to be demonstrative of precisely nothing. Pat yourself on the back. Take the wife to Arby's to celebrate.

Sorry hyper, I have no desi... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Sorry hyper, I have no desire having you ask me if I want fries with that.

Alright Jay, if you feel li... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Alright Jay, if you feel like this post warrants some more substantive commentary, and you want me to defend the Canadian healthcare system, fine: it's great in principle, but like any system (government run or otherwise) it has flaws in practice. There is no reason to deny parents the right to pursue alternative healthcare for their child; and, if the hospital had refused to let them take their child elsewhere, they could have called the police, and the police would have intervened. So, this is one horrific example of how bureaucrats can ruin people's lives.

On the other hand, my grandfather--87 years old--has received premium treatment for three different kinds of cancer in the past ten years. If the system was predicated solely on rationing, and not on delivering quality care, people in their 80s who smoked for 60 years would likely have a hard time getting life-extending treatment. He didn't wait any longer than my father did for cancer treatment, and my father was 55 when he had prostate cancer.

So yes, those anecdotes are horrible, but they are anecdotes. If you want to compare private healthcare to public, use statistics: outcomes, accessibility, overall health of the population, etc.

Hyper, I do not feel the ne... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Hyper, I do not feel the need to reiterate a point that has been made already. We are not like you that think we are eagerly awaiting your response. If the point has been made from the perspective of the conservative, there is no REASON to keep going. But with you, you continue to not only make your point but to keep changing the goal posts so you do not lose the debate. It demisnishes you and your opinion. As far as Paul Hooson, I like that guy a lot. He is always kind and honest. He talks about himself too much but I find him enjoyable. You my friend, are a predictable bore. ww

WOW I didn't catch that thi... (Below threshold)
epador:

WOW I didn't catch that this was an All About Hyperbolist thread when I read the post.

I kept scrolling down, wanting to make a point about premies, and had to trudge through that muck.

Here's my point hopelessly separated from the original post:

Premies rarely make it before 23 weeks, even rarer before 22 weeks. While there are rare examples of successfully supporting the younger premies, they are very rare. So if a health care system feels it has to draw a line somewhere, the 23 week line is not imbecilic. My stepdaughter works the NICU, and has many tales to tell. The 21 weeker she had last did not last long. She is a very open and loving nurse who gives her all to all her kids. She shared that this one is the only one that "gave her the creeps" in over a decade of NICU work.

Now hopefully our health care system will grow even more sophisticated and be able to support premature infants at even earlier stages. We're not quite there yet to make it standard of care, and it won't be cheap when it is. I'm no supporter of the Canadian Health System as a quality care system, but this example, though designed to pull at the heart strings, leaves a little to be desired compared to the others in your post.

Jay, those stories (with th... (Below threshold)
dnb:

Jay, those stories (with the exception of Jude - beautiful choice for a name, although I'm not sure neighbors will agree) are indeed ugly; however, the world is by and large not. Check out the youtube videos of prayers to Japan. Check out individual donations being made. Most people live their lives to the best of their ability, trying not to hurt anyone and sometimes help someone. That's a beautiful thing!




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