« The MBA versus the MIA | Main | "I can't look at you or any other priest without thinking of a sexual abuser" »

The Change which Hope has brought us

Then…

19 March, 2003
‘American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger’…


Now

19 March, 2011
‘Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world’…


Seems like a rather insignificant “change” to this observer.

Hat Tips: Glen “Instapundit” Reynolds and Matt Drudge.

Candidate Obama vs President Obama


TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
/cgi-bin/mt-tb.cgi/41286.

Comments (47)

Barry once again follows th... (Below threshold)
914:

Barry once again follows the Booosh mantra. Somehow though, to the kool eyed crazed koz kids, Its Barry and he's smart and wise and oh so cool.

MoveOn morons.

Now we'll see if the "Anti-... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

Now we'll see if the "Anti-War" movement is really anti-war or anti-Republican. I'm betting on the later.

The change is that in 2003 ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The change is that in 2003 it was the US that lead the coalition, today it's France because the US is currently incapable of leadership.

obama is a follower. Sarkozy got sick and tired of waiting for him to act and so took the reins himself. Thank God at least our allies have some leaders even if we do not.

jim m,But was that... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

jim m,

But was that (the transition of leadership away from the United States) the Change they (the Obama voting electorate) were Hoping for?

Well, let's not be too naiv... (Below threshold)
Caesar Augustus:

Well, let's not be too naive around here.

2003 was a man's war to liberate a country and to remove a grave threat to the U.S. and to regional stability.

2011 is a child's dog & pony show to give an empty suit a bit of street cred. next fall in competitive red states.

W. had Congressional approv... (Below threshold)
recovered liberal democrat:

W. had Congressional approval. Obamalala didn't even bother to ask.

BHO does have to ask for no... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

BHO does have to ask for now he should have invoked the Wars Powers act.

The Arab league has Air Forces and Armies why don't they do this instead of the Western World.
Arab Street do something.

Is Barry going to have to g... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

Is Barry going to have to give back his "Peace Prize"?

Nah.The UN called ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Nah.

The UN called for action and Barry believes that the UN trumps US sovereignty.

Even without that he still believes that the Presidency is all powerful. But the what do you expect when he is surrounded by people who think the three branches of government are the House, Senate and President.

Irony is lost on the bumbli... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

Irony is lost on the bumbling boob.

As others have stated, we do not have a leader at the helm, he's not even a very good follower as he cannot be trusted to commit to a specific goal.

Oh my God...This i... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Oh my God...

This is hands down the best comment on obama:

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/117072/

Encapsulates the spirit of Hope and Same perfectly.

Barry is committed to a spe... (Below threshold)
914:

Barry is committed to a specific goal alright.


New World Order.

Iraq turned out so well for... (Below threshold)
Chico:

Iraq turned out so well for the the US, why not burn up a few hundred billion over Libya? It's not like we don't have the money. . . .

Iraq turned out so... (Below threshold)
Brett :
Iraq turned out so well for the the US, why not burn up a few hundred billion over Libya? It's not like we don't have the money. . . .
Iraq was/is a *brilliant success* - a fragile but functioning democracy. And deficits under Bush were in the hundreds of billions - this year they are several TRILLION.

Well played, troll...

I'm sure Iraq will be a str... (Below threshold)
Chico:

I'm sure Iraq will be a strong US ally in the years ahead and will show great gratitude for their liberation, being a bulwark against the Iranians.

Price of one Tomahawk missile: at least $500,000. The US launched at least 56 of them last night = $28,000,000. Well, thank God we didn't spend that on bridges or rail projects in the US, or even worse, health care for homeless people.

Perhaps the difference you'... (Below threshold)

Perhaps the difference you're not recalling is, Bush's Iraq invasion = a hundred thousand US committed ground troops, against the will of most of NATO and the UN, and against the will of even our allies in the middle East, in a war that made and has continued to make the US less safe.

Whereas this current action appears unlikely to risk more US troops than those flying planes, has the backing of NATO and the UN. Which means also that Obama has avoided the US becoming the fall guy for what the rest of the world wants.

Just keeping it real guys.

The 'Will of the UN' shoul... (Below threshold)
Ryan M.:

The 'Will of the UN' should be utterly irrelevant in ANYTHING.

I'm actually OK with France... (Below threshold)
James H:

I'm actually OK with France having the lead on this one. Regardless of our motivations for invading Afghanistan and Iraq, the United States nevertheless got flak for everything that went wrong in those two countries after the invasions ... and honestly, it's a headache I'm not interested in having. Let France deal with it this time.

Yes we can, oh yes we can.<... (Below threshold)
CZ:

Yes we can, oh yes we can.

Hopey Hopey Change Change.

.... 19 March, 2011 - Today... (Below threshold)

.... 19 March, 2011 - Today we are part of a broad coalition, are answering the call of a threatened people and are acting in the interests of the United States and the world ...

Nope.

Today we are the part of a Euro-peon coalition that is going through the motions of answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting that way in the interests of allowing the Euro-peons' Neo-Soviet's on and offshore states to continue with their smoke and mirrors pretencethey are capable of taking such action.

Their living room floor. Our marbles.

.... the will of most of NA... (Below threshold)

.... the will of most of NATO and the UN ....

We are both of those.

For as long as it suits us to so be.

What's with this talk of mo... (Below threshold)
sam:

What's with this talk of money?

The Chinese are paying for it.

And before you bring up debt, remember that it is not debt if we have neither the ability nor the intention of repaying.

Bush's Iraq invasion = a... (Below threshold)

Bush's Iraq invasion = a hundred thousand US committed ground troops, against the will of most of NATO and the UN, and against the will of even our allies in the middle East

Certain lies can't be left to stand.

Most of NATO allies came along with us.

There were quite a few outstanding UN resolutions that backed taking out Saddam.

J.

thanks for setting the reco... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

thanks for setting the record straight in comment #23, Jay.

Sadly, as your comment contained actual FACTS it will be disregarded by jim x, et al.

Most of the Left will sit on their hands since their Golden Child is involved. Of course, he's "involved" from RIO!

"Most of the Left will sit ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Most of the Left will sit on their hands since their Golden Child is involved. Of course, he's "involved" from RIO!"

"Plausible deny-ability". It all turns to crap, Barry can claim he 'was out of town'.

The One is only around to claim credit. Everything else is Bush's fault.

Bush's Iraq invasion = a... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Bush's Iraq invasion = a hundred thousand US committed ground troops, against the will of most of NATO and the UN, and against the will of even our allies in the middle East

Let's see...

17 UN Security Council resolutions = against the will of the UN.

Going to war with a coalition consisting of:
Albania
Armenia
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
Demark
Dominican Republic
El Salvadore
Estonia
Georgia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kazakhstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Moldova
Mongolia
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Norway
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Singapore
Slovakia
South Korea
Spain
Thailand
Tonga
Ukrain
United Kingdom

= against the will of NATO.

And if the middle eastern nations SO wanted to stop this, why did not a single one EVER come to Saddam's defense?

Sucks when someone points out that your bullshit narrative doesn't match up with reality. Maybe you should stop reading your talking points and start reading some history.

jim m @ 26,And let... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

jim m @ 26,

And let us not forget that President George W. Bush took his case before the American Public and the Congress and that we thus had a debate resulting in a vote by the Congress to Authorized the Use of Military Force prior to the invasion of Iraq. BHO seems to have skipped that step here.

Private Ghadaffy has oodles... (Below threshold)
914:

Private Ghadaffy has oodles of mustard gas at his disposal.

Are those the WMD's Barry is looking for? He wont find them on the links in RIO.

Rodney,Do you real... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Rodney,

Do you really expect that obama would allow himself to be constrained by a Constitution that he has declared to be "Seriously flawed" for the very reason that it does not allow the government to act against the will of the people?

Obeying the Constitution is for the little people. Lesser Presidents will have to obey the Constitution, but obama is above such trivial things since he has such transcendent wisdom that he cannot allow his brilliant genius to be inhibited by such tawdry ideas like the law.

jim m @ 29,Why yes... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

jim m @ 29,

Why yes, I do require that the President of the United States uphold his oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.

Rodney,I agree. I... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Rodney,

I agree. I too expect a President to uphold his oath. However, my question was whether or not we should expect obama to do so. Given his previous statements and his behavior since taking office I think the answer is that to expect him to follow the Constitution is extremely naive.

jim,I said nothing... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

jim,

I said nothing about expectations. I stated that I require that the President of the United States, who works for us, uphold his oath. Failure to uphold the oath rises to the level of "high crimes and misdemeanors" and is grounds for removal from office.

We had 10 years of No Fly z... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

We had 10 years of No Fly zone in Iraq.
He was an enemy he refused to allow the weapons inspections happen. We know why he was making money hand over fist from the Oil for Food Scandal that France, Russia and member's of the UN were engaged in. It was the Frances and Russia greed for Oil that lead to the invasion of Iraq. That being said we had the debate the left loss which in there minds means we had no debate because there words are so good the could sway any ones thinking.

Fast forward to today. Who are we supporting? What are the goals of the Rebels? When they win will they support the USA or will it be Like Castro? If we care about civilians being attacked what happened in Iran? Will we being going up against Saudi family?

Now we hear the Arab league did not like the missile attack.
What is the exit strategy? What is victory?

Will we being going up a... (Below threshold)
hyperboist:

Will we being going up against Saudi family?

Doubt it. You're selling them a wing of F-15s and training their pilots and support personnel on U.S. soil.

Makes sense to me. It's not like most of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, right?

Jay Tea, glad to see you ac... (Below threshold)

Jay Tea, glad to see you actually respond to a comment of mine this time. You're correct, I quite overstated the case when I said "most of Nato", if we're going by a list of nations. However, our strongest allies besides Britain - Germany and France - both were quite against the Iraq invasion. As you all well know.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2683409.stm

And as you also well know, those UN resolutions were nearly all regarding WMD - which the inspectors found no evidence for when they begin inspections after 2001 - at which point we invaded anyway.

Which forced Bush to assemble a "coalition of the willing" - because the UN itself was unwilling to back it. And Bush also filled this coalition with symbolic support from former Eastern bloc countries in exchange for supporting their being brought into NATO.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-02-24-unwilling-cover_x.htm

These are key points of history, which we all lived through, and which we would all do well to deal with. Rather than attempt to delete because they offend an ideological view of the world.

The worldview should be shifted to suit the facts, and not the other way around, don't you think?

jim @ 35 seems to be un-awa... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

jim @ 35 seems to be un-aware that the Fwench withdrew all of their forces from NATO's unified command structures starting in 1959, and required all non-Fwench forces to leave Fwance in 1966.

Some allies those Fwench.

All in all going to war without the Fwench is like going hunting without a bagpipe band.

The UN resolutions were requiring that Iraq prove to outside inspectors that they had destroyed all their chemical weapons and abandoned their Nuclear ambitions. Considering we found and removed 200 Tons of LEU (Low Enriched Uranium) and the vast amounts of Nerve Agent precursors we found, makes the observation that "no WMD's were found" both a truthful statement and a damn lie with regards to WMD programs.

The NATO expansion to the East (and the former Warsaw Pact satellites of the former Soviet Union) was already in progress before the events of 9-11 and the formation of the Coalition of the Willing. An inconvenient fact which you have lightly elided over since it does not support your thesis.

Pluck first the beam from thine own eye, Beach.

Great then maybe you could ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Great then maybe you could change your world view to address the fact that Bill Clinton's administration thought that Hussein had and active WMD development program.

Lefties are so quick to claim that this was a lie, but if so it was a lie that was developed for 8 years by Bill Clinton.

Own it. Deal with it. If you don't like the WMD issue you have no one but the dems to blame for it.

@ 36, whether or not you li... (Below threshold)

@ 36, whether or not you like the French isn't the question. The question is if you are comparing Bush's invasion of Iraq to Obama's support of a no-fly zone, **even the French** are going along with the no-fly zone.

And as indicated by the article, the eastern bloc nations expected support from the US for NATO in return for their support of the Iraq invasion.

and @ 37, my worldview alre... (Below threshold)

and @ 37, my worldview already knows that. Saddam DID have WMD's during the Clinton administration. What the facts also show is that the Clinton administration successfully dealt with the WMD's via sanctions and inspections - because when inspectors went back in 2001 to 2003, they found nothing.

As we all know, the tons of uranium was **already known, isolated and secured** before the invasion. It wasn't even a factor. Ditto for the ingredients of WMD's, etc. Then after the invasion, all that was found was either new things cooked up AFTER the invastion by Al Qaeda, or weapons that were no longer destructive enough to kill a soldier if it fell on him.

But so it goes.

Liking the Fwench is not th... (Below threshold)
Rodnehy Graves:

Liking the Fwench is not the issue. Knowing their track record as a fickle ally (at best) is the issue. Having the Fwench on one's side is a near certain indicator you are headed in the wrong direction.

Michael Barone delivers the slap in passing the Internationalists (bonus points for those who remember which failed state/empire had the Internationale as its national anthem) have so richly earned in Townhall:

...

But there's sometimes a downside, as well. Multilateral forces can be, in strict military terms, more trouble than they're worth. For example, some of our NATO allies in Afghanistan had such strict rules of engagement that they were hardly capable of self-defense.

More importantly, there is a cost to giving a veto to other countries. Critics of George W. Bush's decision to take military action in Iraq never really explained why it was so important that we get the permission of France and Germany. Nor is it clear what moral force would have been added to the cause by the approval of Russia and China.

Like the Fwench, beach does have the backhanded virtue of being a reliable contra-indicator.

Mr. Graves, I'll just point... (Below threshold)

Mr. Graves, I'll just point you back to # 36. The French aren't the point. The point is, the fact that **even the French** can support the no-fly-zone shows, yet again, just how different these two conflicts are.

Mr. Beach missed the point ... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

Mr. Beach missed the point (again).

If the Fwench are on your side, you are headed in the wrong direction.

Reliable contra-indicators such as Beach and the Fwench, while annoying, thus do indeed serve a purpose.

Mr. Graves, would the Frenc... (Below threshold)

Mr. Graves, would the French being on a different side seem to indicate that the two actions are different? Yes or no?

If yes, that means the main supposition of this article is wrong.

This is the point you appear to be missing.

Mr. Beach,Your ini... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

Mr. Beach,

Your initial position was

against the will of most of NATO and the UN

While Jim m concentrated on demonstrating that most of the members of NATO actually sided with us, I demolished your suggestion that Fwance is somehow central to NATO, when it is at best peripheral to NATO by Fwance's choice.

But Beach and the Fwench do remain reliable contra-indicators.

More on Fwance's NATO "memb... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

More on Fwance's NATO "membership."

NATO may have contracted “the French Disease.”

Dan Miller | PJ Tattler

According to the Financial Times (subscription may or may not be required), French sidestepping of NATO at the beginning of military operations in Libya has divided the no-fly-zone coalition. On March 21, French and German ambassadors to NATO walked out after the secretary general faulted France for impeding NATO involvement and Germany for not participating actively.

Turkey is said to be offended because her representatives had not been invited to a “summit” in Paris. There are also tensions between the United States and Britain on one hand and France on the other. One western official is reported to have said,

As we got closer and closer to closing the deal at NATO, France suddenly blocked everything, which confused us at first … But then it became clear – [French president Nicolas] Sarkozy wanted to announce strikes just as he was walking out of his meeting in Paris where he was leading the show.”

France denied all charges.

Perhaps there is something to be said for better United States leadership in international matters. Quo vadis?

Almost as useless as the Democrats. Then again, it's well understood now that going to war without the frogs or the donkeys is no bar to victory.

Mr. graves, either wordpres... (Below threshold)

Mr. graves, either wordpress is eating my comments or someone is editing them.

I don't understand why someone would be so frightened of my words to edit them, but if so that's on them and not me.

When I can be assured my words won't be altered or just deleted, I'll be happy to continue. Otherwise, au revoir.

Mr. beach,Don't go... (Below threshold)
Rodney Graves:

Mr. beach,

Don't go away mad...




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy