You cant waterboard them but you can assasinate them.

Oh I forgot

You cant waterboard them but you can assasinate them, by invading an ally country, without UN sanction, without congressional sanction, and without a coalition.

if you're Obama WHATEVER you do is the PERFECT thing to do!

it's a rigged game...and the only way to win is not to play!

Lamestream repub Presidential template:

'Bush created more terrorists by killing terrorist's!'

Shamestream liberal Presidential template:

'Barry brings worldwide unity by assassinating terrorists and sovereign heads of state family members, thereby decreasing the desire to become said terrorist!'

Have another pitcher of cool aid Bruce and chico and explain thy hypocrisy?

Barry did exactly what he said he'd do back in the primaries. Americans voted for him in part because of his promise to invade Pakistan, if needed, to do a surgical strike to get bin Laden.

You guys just aren't used to having a President who succeeds....

Victor Davis Hanson. A name fit for a serial killer. Or the pompous Thucydides-quoting chickenhawk that he is: another product of student deferments during the Vietnam War who got muy macho later in life.

How was it that when the broad policy decisions that led us to the fiascos in Iraq and Afghanistan, like ordering the disbanding of the Iraqi Army, were criticized, it was "attacking the troops;" but when it comes to criticizing the decision of one SEAL to shoot an OBL that might have been running to trigger a bomb, it's OK to attack that SEAL and Obama, too?

Victor Davis Hanson never saw a war he didn't like, as long as he didn't have to fight in it. Until now, when DEVGRU got OBL on an Obama-ordered mission. Makes ya sick.

Reality often sets in once you're elected. It has made hypocrites of many politicians who campaign on dreams and govern based on reality.

chicka (who still has not produced a DD-214) demonstrates that chickenhawk, like fascist and racist, just means he disparages someone with whom he disagrees but cannot argue against.

Just as he could not demonstrate how the three terrorists who were actually waterboarded qualified as lawful combatants under GENEVA III.

chicka the chickenshit.

First: Hats off to Barry for following through and whacking Goatboy.

Second: For all you born again Lefty Rambos, next time a Republican Prez does something like this, Zip It.

Just as he could not demonstrate how the three terrorists who were actually waterboarded qualified as lawful combatants under GENEVA III.

My point, which I just wrote on the earlier thread, is that even if they were not lawful combatants under Geneva III, they were protected under Geneva IV, Art. 5.

Also, the Convention Against Torture, another treaty the USA is a party to, would also prohibit it, and the other things - like sleep deprivation, prolonged standing, producing hypothermia with refrigeration and cold water, locking people in coffins with bugs, and the other tortures inflicted on detainees.

Which you and Victor Davis Hanson would be in favor of, even as you're crying about Bin Laden getting killed now.

"Might more Americans notice the duplicity."

I'd settle for the 53% who voted for the idiot.

As for their hypocrisy; doesn't faze them at all.

Who knew, Barry Obama is a COWBOY!

Yes, a Hawaiian born Cowboy nonetheless. In his case even a 10 gallon hat wouldn't squeeze over that fat head.

chicka the chickenshit

Nope. Combatants are not covered under GENEVA IV, and are instead subject to the strictures of GENEVA III.

Waterboarding and other forms of enhanced interrogation do not rise to the level of torture as (vaguely) defined in the Convention Against Torture. Should they attempt to redefine it in such a manner, the United States should withdraw from that Convention.

I shed no tears for bin Laden (neither does VDH nor the Dalai Lama). I have been careful to state that I believe killing ObL was the right choice, and that it was an act of war against a combatant enemy. I have merely been pointing out that the interpretations of rawboy (and other leftist "thinkers" of his and chickenshit's caliber) in these matters place 0bama in legal jeopardy.

By the same token, chickenshit's reading of GENEVA IV would have placed ObL in a protected status making the raid which killed him a war crime.

Choose your reading and stick with it, chickenshit.

My point, which I just wrote on the earlier thread, is that even if they were not lawful combatants under Geneva III, they were protected under Geneva IV, Art. 5.

And as others have repeatedly pointed out, the United States never ratified Geneva IV. As an un-ratified treaty, it has no force on the United States.

And those who say that since the UN approved it, it's binding on the US, I quote President President Jackson: "They have made their decision; now let them enforce it."

J.

Bullshit - this was a hazardous military raid.

I'll quote Col. Patrick Lang, a retired Special Forces officer, in contrast to chickenhawk draft-dodger Hanson:

They were not armed? So what? They might have been and a second's hesitation in shooting them in the dark in the midst of the swirling action could easily have led to disaster for the mission and the team.

Soldiers (SEALS in this case) are not policemen. Policemen are instruments of the courts of law. Their duty (even SWAT units) is to arrest the suspect and make him available for interrogation with a possible trial as outcome under the rules of evidence. Their weapons are to be used only as necessary to protect life, especially their own lives.

Soldiers are instruments of national policy. Their function is to use violence in furtherance of national policy. In other words, they kill people and destroy things. Such a function requires a lifetime of specialized training and experience and a mentality that has nothing to do with police work.

if you want to start using soldiers for police work, remember that soon after you begin doing that they will no longer be soldiers. Remember that in the future when you need people who will destroy your enemies,

If it bothers you that the dead in the compound in Abbotabad were unarmed, then next time send the NYPD.

And as others have repeatedly pointed out, the United States never ratified Geneva IV. As an un-ratified treaty, it has no force on the United States.

Um, Jay, as usual you are wrong. Geneva IV was ratified in 1955 and came into force in 1956.

I sit corrected.

chicka is correct with regards to adoption status of GENEVA IV. Mea culpa.

[blockquote continues]

Sadly [for him], it makes no difference to his position. ObL was an active combatant who bore arms. We have his own videos as proof thereof, which places him back under GENEVA III as a combatant vice a civilian.

93. Posted by Rdoney G. Graves | May 7, 2011 10:30 AM

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2011/05/06/first-thing-we-do-lets-torture-all-the-lawyers.php#comment-1498038

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2011/05/06/first-thing-we-do-lets-torture-all-the-lawyers.php#comment-1498047

"Victor Davis Hanson. A name fit for a serial killer. Or the pompous Thucydides-quoting chickenhawk that he is: another product of student deferments during the Vietnam War who got muy macho later in life."

I understand the very emotional life you liberals lead, but that is your choice. You're personal feelings about Mr Hanson do not detract from the accuracy of his analysis. There are indeed different standards on how the liberal press and academy treats a liberal/ Democrat president compared to how a Republican is treated. It is particularly true with Obama because of the nature of the man and the amount of emotion that liberals such as yourself have invested in his success. In many cases Obama is the type of guy you have to drag across the finish line.

I am also sorry you do not like water boarding and all those other inconveniences. One never knows where a terrorist act will occur. Did you ever imagine anyone would ever fly commercial airliners into the WTC? I'll tell you this, if a family member of mine could be saved by gleaning information of a terrorist act by waterboarding a knowledgeable individual I could accept that. You on the other hand could accept the loss of a family member in that siutuation because you have a moral stance against such things as waterboarding. Fine, I find it odd to be polite about it, but whatever allows you to sleep at night then so be it.

Look, I agree with Obama's decision to allow this assassination of bin Laden to proceed. All he had to do was give the go ahead. All the heavy lifting and creative planning was done by others. This is his habit. It was the same as healthcare. He was the figurehead and Pelosi and Reid did all the heavy lifting for him. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Killing bin Laden is a great morale booster. I predict it will have little effect on the truly major problems facing us right now.

Hanson's point, which the leftist trolls seeks to distort, is that the reaction from the media and the left would have been quite different on these matters had the President been a Republican, and since there is a long and clear track record proving his point, it remains undisputed despite the disinformation campaign.

JT @ 14,

Sorry, but our singatory/ratification status as to GENEVA IV "...relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War" is chickenshit's "one minute out of 1440 in every day" opportunity to be right. He promptly shifts back to form in (being wrong) in that as active irregular (and unlawful) combatants, the terrorists are not protected under GENEVA IV, instead falling under GENEVA III where they fail the tests for status as lawful combatants under Section 4, thus depriving them of the protections afforded bona fide Prisoners of War under GENEVA III and protected persons status under GENEVA IV.

As unlawful combatants they have the right to become dead, and to remain dead. Full Stop.

Oh, how I love the stubborn and continued attempt at using the "Chickenhawk" meme in a feeble attempt to disqualify someone's legitimate opinion about military operations, etc.

Guys seriously, you cannot ever have a civil conversation about politics or national affairs with a liberal. They tell you what you think, why you think that way, then insultingly tell you that logical reasoning didn't lead you to that conclusion. They simply do not *try* to understand the conservative point of view.

Of course the hypocrisy and the duplicity won't be noticed by a majority of Americans. Just like Chico and the rest of his or her ilk, they're too busy choking down the Kool-Aid to care.

I don't think it's the coolaid they're choking on...

Chico

You still havent answered the question I asked about 5 times now.

Are you saying you are against waterboarding but for murder?

Obama is guilty of warcrimes is he not?

He ordered the invasion of an ally country, without UN sanction, without congressional sanction, with an executive order which states to assasinate OBL, and without a coalition.

Since you are against waterboarding are you against Obama's actions and should he be thrown in jail for violating international law?

Chico

My response to your responis is on the torture the lawyer thread. I didnt see your response prior to posting here.

I'm impressed with the way Chico derails the comments from the gist of the post. Well done - "Look, Chickenhawk, Geneva IV, blah, blah, blah." Not a word about the subject of the post - the inherent bias and double standards of the MSM. Well played.

I like this quote from VDH better than the quote provided above:

In sum, Senator Obama opposed tribunals, renditions, Guantanamo, preventive detention, Predator-drone attacks, the Iraq War, wiretaps, and intercepts — before President Obama either continued or expanded nearly all of them, in addition to embracing targeted assassinations, new body scanning and patdowns at airports, and a third preemptive war against an oil-exporting Arab Muslim nation — this one including NATO efforts to kill the Qaddafi family. The only thing more surreal than Barack Obama’s radical transformation is the sudden approval of it by the once hysterical Left. In Animal Farm and 1984 fashion, the world we knew in 2006 has simply been airbrushed away.

What was that quote by Orwell? Something like: "He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."

Walter,

When the facts are on your side, pound the facts, When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on you side pound the table (and accuse your opponents of racism, being chickenhawks, etc.)

As 2012 approaches, we'll see more if it, guaranteed.

And then in 2013, it'll stop for at least 4 years.

I agree with Rick and the linked post; only he hypocrisy will get worse. Obama is just getting warmed up. Those who are fresh to violence are often more ruthless than those who have a long experience with violence. As an illustration, read Glenn Greenwald: U.S. tries to assassinate U.S. citizen Anwar al-Awlaki

"Obama is now compiling a hit list of American citizens, with at least four on them. (Great, but he still can`t eavesdrop on Americans in the USA) but the President has the power to order American citizens assassinated without an iota of due process -- far from any battlefield, not during combat" Trials are no so medieval, so age of enlightenment since 9/11, and now sinEc the killing probable assassination of bin Laden, most mainstream liberals are cheering wildly from the sidelines, joinig their conservative brethren, who for the first time are impressed with Obama.

It made America feel good about itself in a way that no other event has since at least Obama's inauguration....This was a week for flag-waving, fist-pumping, and nationalistic chanting: even -- especially -- among liberals, who were able to take the lead and show the world (and themselves) that they are no wilting, delicate wimps; it's not merely swaggering right-wing Texans, but they, too, who can put bullets in people's heads and dump corpses into the ocean and then joke and cheer about it afterwards

Roy,

That depends on who wins, which is by no means a certainty at this point. A lot can happen in 18 months.

It's far more likely that the race card will be so devalued after this election cycle as to be worthless. Folks will see the accusation, recognize the Graves' law violation, and stop paying attention to whoever it was who threw the card.

crampless,

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. Sounds like you need to get you harvard cowboy under control there.

Look, we'll never know how the press would have played the killing of Bin Ladin in a SOF raid. Because Bush flailed, flaped, farted and failed to get it done.

I don't recall many tears or concerns in the "liberal press" when Zarqawi was killed, though.

But right now, it's disgusting reading the right-wing calling the SEALs murderers for killing Bin Ladin, as "retired military" did in comment #22.

No such thing occurred chico. He called Barry guilty of war crimes using the lefts own definitions used against Bush and asked if you agreed.

"I don't recall many tears or concerns in the "liberal press" when Zarqawi was killed, though."

They are now doing sympathetic biographies on Bin laden however. CNN cannot resist playing the victim card, just like you leftists cannot resist playing the race card.

… and here I thought “we got Osama”
Now we find out that not only did Obama make the decision to raid Pakistan, but he flew the helicopter, shot everybody in the compound, personally ripped the heart of of bin Laden with his bare hands, carried the dead body of bin Laden in one arm while he first ran then swam to the USS Carl Vinson, and finally personally prepared the body for burial at sea drawing on his boyhood experience in a Muslim country. And all of this while getting in 9 holes of golf.
Obviously, there are just too damn many folks drawing a paycheck from the federal government who are doing nothing, while Obama is doing it all. I suggest that we layoff 20% of all federal employees while doubling .. no .. quadrupling the Obama’s paycheck .. because obviously he is worth it all.

I expect there will be an increased crescendo of Obama ass kissing via the sunday morning talk shows. Barry pulled the trigger on Bin to distract from his disastrous performance thus far. Time will tell if the ploy will work or fade.,

As for Hellboy, well he missed out on the 72 virgins but he seemed to prefer billy goats anyway's.

Victor Davis Hanson. A name fit for a serial killer. Or the pompous Thucydides-quoting chickenhawk that he is: another product of student deferments during the Vietnam War who got muy macho later in life.

Let me translate Chico's entire comment: "Victor Davis Hanson is a lot smarter and more eloquent than I could ever hope to be. I hate him and have nothing useful to say to refute his points, so instead I'll insult him and use ad hominem attacks."

Chico

I never stated the SEALs were guilty of murder. I said that Obama ordered the murder.

Get your facts straight. (something you seem to be having a lot of trouble with).

I merely applied the same standards to Obama that were applied to Bush.

Speaking of which how do you feel about his illegal and immoral war against Pakistan??

And do you feel Obama guilty of war crimes using the same standards that the left has been using for Bush for the past 10 years?

BTW CHICO

Since the left has stated that Bush was guilty of murder of all the civilians in Iraq that have died, either via collataral damage or the insurgents blowing them up, isnt Obama guilty of murder of the 5 folks who died during the raid of the OBL compound?

WIll you join the left who has called the US servicemembers guilty of murder of Iraqi civilians and call the SEALS murderers as well? This is the left's standard not mine. You are a member of the left.

Are you saying that Bush was right in invading Iraq and was not guilty of murdering anyone using the same standards which you herofying Obama?

All I am asking for is some consistency from the left instead of the blatant double standard and hypocracy on display with your statements.

Famous Gangster Murder Quotes:

"We took care of Kennedy . . . The hit in Dallas was just like any other operation we’d worked on in the past."
—Sam Giancana to his brother

"We shouldn’t have killed John. We should’ve killed Bobby." —Santos Trafficante Jr., 1987

"Hey, listen, I want somebody good - and I mean very good - to plant that gun. I don't want my brother coming out of that toilet with just his dick in his hands, alright?" – Sonny Corleone

"You do not want to be between Michelle and a tamale" – Don Vito Obama

I never stated the SEALs were guilty of murder. I said that Obama ordered the murder.

If you served, you should know from your Law of War classes that following illegal orders to commit a crime is no excuse for the crime. That defense "I was only following orders" did not work at Nurenburg. So, if you say Obama ordered a murder, you are saying the SEALs are guilty of murder for carrying it out.

It's disgusting, effectively saying the SEALs murdered Bin Laden. I am beginning to doubt that you ever served if you never got that class.

I know y'all and the loathsome chickenhawk Victor Davis Hanson are choking on your bile and spite that Bin Laden was got by the Obama administration, but get over it. He's dead, and the world is a better place.

Also, retired, Bin Laden attacked the USA.

Iraq did not. Iraq was just a trumped up war for KBR/Halliburton to get military contracts for and the oil companies to expand production.

The difference is between Just War and self-defense and Aggressive War.

Chico

Unlike the left I dont call Soldiers Murderers or baby killers.

Now how about answering the simple yes or no questions I have asked you.

You are avoiding the questions altogether because you dont want to apply the same STANDARD to Obama as you have to Bush. Period.

In other words you are a coward because you have no courage of your convictions.

I have no problem with what the SEALs did. hell if I was there and I saw OBL in a hospital bed in a coma I would have shot him myself. I merely am asking that YOU apply the same standards to BUSH that you and the left have applied to OBAMA for the past 10 years.

Either do so or admit that you use double standards and your convictions change with whatever political party happens to be in office at them same time.

Bush was called a cowboy and accused of lone wolfing it in Iraq yet we go into Pakistan ALONE.

One last question (please answer them all)

Doesnt that mean that Obam is a cowboy as well?

Hmmm, Obama got the guy who attacked the USA on 9/11.

Bush flailed around, lost OBL because he diverted the military to a country which had nothing to do with 9/11 (Iraq), spent a trillion dollars there and caused the death of 4000+ Americans and more than 100,000+ Iraqis.

Yeah, I can see how they did the same thing. Riiight. A double standard.

And, yes, you are calling the SEALs murderers if you said Obama ordered murder.

Iraq is a trumped up war and Libia is......
The double standard is breath taking.

The double standard is breath taking.

No, it's utterly typical, John. Chico is desperate to prove to use how competent his man-crush, Barack Obama is.

I know Otto but still, how can they, at this time with the stuff going on say anything about Iraq with a straight face?

And, yes, you are calling the SEALs murderers if you said Obama ordered murder.

Good God, you can NOT be this stupid. What part of this sentence ("I have no problem with what the SEALs did. hell if I was there and I saw OBL in a hospital bed in a coma I would have shot him myself. I merely am asking that YOU apply the same standards to BUSH that you and the left have applied to OBAMA for the past 10 years.") that Retired Military wrote escapes you? He is trying to hold YOUR side accountable for the language that was used for eight years... that Bush was a monster, a murderer, a war criminal. Now that Obama is in office, he's largely pursuing the same policies (less forcefully and more incoherently in my opinion, but that's a subject for a different discussion). You liberals can't wait to praise him for it.

Chico, why the hell are you here? Honestly, what purpose does it serve for you to come to this blog, spout liberal cliches that were tired and discredited years ago ("chickenhawk," really?), insult writers that are far smarter than you, and intentionally miss the point of people's arguments? Is your life so empty, so void of human interaction, that you need us to pay attention to you? Or do you just get off on your hatred of us?

Honestly, there's something sick about you.

The double standard is breath taking.

Are we talking about killing Bin Laden or Libya?

I'm against the intervention in Libya, but last I heard the USA was pretty much out of it, with no American casualties and the Europeans carrying the load. Nothing like the waste of Iraq.

It's like when the Bushies used to compare Iraq with "Clintoon's Wars" in Bosnia. How many US KIA in Bosnia? One.

Bin Laden's dead, get over it and quit yer bitchin'

"Good God, you can NOT be this stupid."

Yes, it can.

"Bin Laden's dead, get over it and quit yer bitchin'"

I'll believe it when I see it. Just like the long form, the college grades ( un-affirm native action ) the jobs, the uniting the country, Barry putting away the clubs and doing his job for at least 2 weeks.

Chcio

See the new post directed specifically at your double standard that Jay Tea started.

There is little difference between the two parties. Democratic presidents will lie about what they construe as the big issues important to keep them in office. Truth is always the first casualty, if anything important is at stake. Clinton lied about keeping his pants on, and his cabinet will fall into place, or in Obama's case, he lied about bin Laden, an unarmed old man's firefight with 79 Seals, we couldn´t afford to capture, question or try, and both parties fall into place.

And all the while, every President in the US, every politician talks up about the sanctity ofthe Constitution and the rule of law, the Bill of rights, due process, which they feel safe to ignore when it doesn´t suit them. Why bother with this ritual about swearing-in ceremony to uphold the Constitution? It is all claptrap, it just seems to delay them a little.

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
Henry Kissinger, New York Times, Oct. 28, 1973.

neo @ 33 wrote:

… and here I thought “we got Osama” Now we find out that not only did Obama make the decision to raid Pakistan, but he flew the helicopter, shot everybody in the compound, personally ripped the heart of of bin Laden with his bare hands, carried the dead body of bin Laden in one arm while he first ran then swam to the USS Carl Vinson, and finally personally prepared the body for burial at sea drawing on his boyhood experience in a Muslim country. And all of this while getting in 9 holes of golf. Obviously, there are just too damn many folks drawing a paycheck from the federal government who are doing nothing, while Obama is doing it all. I suggest that we layoff 20% of all federal employees while doubling .. no .. quadrupling the Obama’s paycheck .. because obviously he is worth it all.

Would that be the long form version of "0bama is AWESOME!"?

I may have to quote this one elsewhere.

Well done!

Heh!

Evil Otto @ 35 has chicka's number!

Let me translate Chico's entire comment: "Victor Davis Hanson is a lot smarter and more eloquent than I could ever hope to be. I hate him and have nothing useful to say to refute his points, so instead I'll insult him and use ad hominem attacks."

The only thing chicka missed was accusing Hanson of being a racist, fascist, sexist...

crampless shows up to throw the everyone does it card.

They seem to be getting desperate.

Truth is always the first casualty, if anything important is at stake.

You could try using some. Instead, you're whining about the Constitutionality of an action that did not take place on American soil, did not involve the killing of any American citizen.

an unarmed old man

Why, that poor, unarmed old man!!!

...Who was responsible for thousands of deaths. Who led one of the most powerful terrorist organizations on the planet. Who intentionally targeted civilians in atrocity after atrocity.

Yeah, keep spinning, Steve. You're trying to turn this into some sort of criminal matter, as if bin Laden was a common thief instead of a terrorist. Personally, I don't care if Osama bin Laden had showed up at his door, invited the SEALs in for tea, and wanted to show them pictures of his grandchildren. I don't care whether he was unarmed or armed. I don't care if he had tried to surrender. I wouldn't have cared if they had shot him in his sleep. He deserved to die for his crimes, and that's exactly what happened. Obama rightly treated him as what he was... not a criminal, but an ENEMY.

We are at war, Steve, whether you believe it or not, and in war there are no rules at all against targeting the enemy leadership. Have you forgotten that al Qaeda attacked the Pentagon, which is home to our military leadership? Have you forgotten that the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was most likely headed for either the White House or, more likely, the Capitol Building? You whine like a petulant schoolgirl about this, but no law was broken.

Now, if you're so damned concerned about the Constitution (and make no mistake, I don't believe you are), care to join our side on the next thread about Obama's health care bill?

f1guyus says:

.... next time an actual president does something like this, (all you 20%-Hard-Left Fascists may) zip It ....

But f1guyus misses that an Actual President and Armed-Forces Commander-In-Chief, George Herbert Walker Bush, just did something he set in motion in 2001. After inheriting a gutted Military from the recidivist, treasonous, lying, looting, thieving, mass-murdering, co-serial-rapist and only incidental "prezidente," Billy-Bubba Blythe Crime family, then Actual-President, Mr Bush, strengthened America's Intelligence Services, quadrupled the SEAL budget and provided the equipment, training and support that made the bin Laidup (in Porkistarn) raid possible -- and set in motion the search that (despite the gutless "one's" appointment of the worst secretary of state and cabinet America has ever seen and his having taken almost 24 hours to decide to permit the 9-years-long search and culminating raid to proceed) resulted in bin Laidup's demise!

Mr Bush: 99 - Buraq Hussayn bin Buraq Hussayn bin Hussayn Milhous O'Sama-Sama? Zip!

And FasciSSocialism is still a psychosis and its sufferers, "the one," included, psychopaths!

Evil Otto:We are at war, Steve, whether you believe it or not, and in war there are no rules at all against targeting the enemy leadership

Really, when there is no question of self-defense or armed resistance, outside of the battle field. It may not be in the Constitution.... I was referring to other matters, specifically the 5th amendment tha all Americans including those targeted for asassination, outside the battle field, are eligible for fith amendment protection-which says nothing about be valid only in peace time.

As for Obama and bin Laden, if there was no legal problem, why all the major deceptions, evasions, lies and half-truths about the incident. The police chief of a Swat would have been more forthcoming. If this is leadership, it doesn't set a very good example for being straight with the American people about something so important? I'm sure Obama as Bush did, would have fought hard against the installation of 9/11 commission? But I don't have to tell you about Obama's leadership stye.

crampless @ 57 argues 5th Amendment.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger;1 nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law2; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

1Is absolutely not applicable to Osama bin Laden (deceased), as he was not a United States person, was not within the sovereign territory of the United States, and was waging war (as an illegal combatant by the Customary Laws of War) against the United States.

As applied to Adam Pearlman, aka Adam Yahiye Gadahn, aka Azzam the American, he is indeed a citizen of the United States. He has been indicted for Treason and is a fugitive from justice. He is also an illegal combatant (per the Customary Laws of Warfare) engaged in warfare against the United States. The battlefield of that war, per al Qaeda's own declaration (and on whose behalf he is engaged as an illegal combatant), is the entire world.

Should he surrender or be captured, he will be returned to the United States for trial.

Should a hellfire missile with his name on it find him first, he will be an enemy combatant slain on the field of battle.

2Is absolutely not applicable to ObL.

As regards Pearlman, he's been indicted and is a fugitive. At the same time he is part of the command structure of an NGO engaged in warfare against the United States. The battlefield that NGO has declared is the whole world. As an illegal combatant in that war against the United States, his citizenship is irrelevant unless he should surrender or be captured. Under the Customary Laws of Warfare, he may be engaged with lethal force and without warning whenever and wherever he may be found.

crampless continues with:

As for Obama and bin Laden, if there was no legal problem, why all the major deceptions, evasions, lies and half-truths about the incident.

An excellent question for which only 0bama has an answer. You should ask it of him.

The police chief of a Swat would have been more forthcoming. If this is leadership, it doesn't set a very good example for being straight with the American people about something so important?

That's what one gets when the elect a cipher with no public records or record of accomplishment on the basis of "hope and change."

I'm sure Obama as Bush did, would have fought hard against the installation of 9/11 commission? But I don't have to tell you about Obama's leadership stye.

What leadership and what style?

#34 - Is that you, rm, using my moniker?

Coward.

@59. It isnt me.

I have posted one time under a monikor other than RM and I informed Jay Tea of that situation.

If someone is using your monikor other than you, then you should report it to Jay Tea or the site operators.