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Thy Will Be Done

Yeah, another article on Sarah Palin. I guess I'm that desperate for comments.

Earlier this week, I wrote a rather lengthy piece on Sarah Palin's potential as a presidential candidate, and how I think that a lot of the "rules" simply don't apply to her. I've been giving that a bit of thought, as well as reading other bloggers' comments about Palin (the term "obsession" in some cases might not be too extreme), and I think I've got a few new insights about her.

One of the most important aspects about Sarah Palin is her religious faith. I've known quite a few such people, and I've picked up on a few common elements. One of them is that such people tend to "trust in God" when it comes to making major decisions. They think very deeply about the matter, pray a lot, look for "signs" that God is telling them which way to go, and in the end make the choice that they think God wants them to make. This tends to be an intensely personal and subjective matter, and one especially hard for them to explain to agnostics like me, but it involves finding similar situations in scripture, applying Biblical principles to the matter, and seeing which one bothers their consciences the least.

And once they make their decision, if they're confident that they're doing what God wants, they don't look back with many regrets. They are comfortable in their belief that God will reward them if they're on the right path -- maybe not immediately or clearly, but He will definitely make his approval known to them.

As an agnostic, I have my own rational, non-mystic explanation for this. The folks are tapping into their subconscious mind, working past their own selfish desires and shallow needs, and obeying their conscience and applying their deepest moral principles to major decisions. Which can easily be explained like I think of evolution and cosmology -- we aren't denying the existence of God, just seeing the ways He might choose to operate.

Twice in her political career, Sarah Palin has "thrown away" her political career over matters of principle. Twice, she stepped away from office to obey her principles.

When she was on the Alaska Oil And Gas Conservation Commission, she knew she was being rewarded for political loyalty after losing her race for Lieutenant Governor. She knew it was a "place-holder" office, allowing her to do important work while burnishing her credentials, learning important things, and demonstrating her political loyalty to those who were "taking care" of her after her defeat.

But that came at too high a price for her. It exposed her to some truly vile political corruption within that body and in related bodies, involving very powerful members of her party's leadership.

She had a choice at that point. She could "go along to get along," work within the system to try to check the most flagrant abuses, but generally turn a blind eye to the worst of it to preserve her political viability, but take careful notes so she could address it once she was in a position of authority that would allow her to do so. (I call this the "Barack Obama" option, as it so perfectly captures his role in the Chicago political machine.) Or she could resign, take her discoveries public, and let the chips fall where they may.

And, in the process, throw away her political career, as fighting corruption within one's own party is rarely a career advancer -- as it usually involves really pissing off the powers that be in your own party who can scuttle any future ambitions you might have.

Palin took the second option. She says that she thought about it, prayed about it, and in the end believed that God wanted her to resign and fight the good fight. Going up against the corruption now was more important than her political future.

And God apparently rewarded her for that move. She sparked a huge reform movement in Alaskan politics, took down a couple of the most powerful Republicans in the state, and rode the wave of reform right into the governor's office.

Walking away from power, in this case, led to even greater triumphs.

Similarly, after losing the vice-presidential race, Palin returned to Alaska to resume her duties as governor. But the enemies she had collected during her few months on the national stage weren't done with her. They found that the ethics laws she had helped champion had some rather nasty loopholes -- they had no penalty provision for people who abused them and filed bullshit complaint after bullshit complaint, then broke the confidentiality clause that said such charges and investigations should remain confidential until they are settled. Further, all the expenses for the accused were to be borne by them, even if they were found not guilty.

Palin fought the charges for months on end, running up legal bills that at one point totaled double her family's income and a full 40% of their net worth. And all through it, she kept trying to do her job -- despite the costs inflicted on her state investigating each and every bullshit complaint, as required by law.

Finally, her enemies found the breaking point. They not only went after her proposed legal defense fund -- which would have allowed her supporters to help defray those huge legal bills -- but started using those same tactics against her staff.

At that point, Palin once again turned to her faith. She asked God if she should continue this losing fight, inflicting these costs on family and her state and her staff with no end in sight. Or if she should resign, walking away from her position of power and authority and responsibility that she had struggled so hard to attain, forever branding her as a "quitter" in the eyes of her detractors and throwing away her political career.

God (or her subconscious or her conscience), once again, was clear: walk away. Yield this battlefield to the enemy, but take up the fight in other arenas. Trust that she had picked a worthy successor in her Lieutenant Governor, accept that she could no longer serve her state to the best of her ability, and, in essence, throw away her political career.

So she did, and she never looked back.

And now, without even announcing that she's running, she's a top-tier candidate for the Republican nomination for president for 2012.

So yeah, once again she's ignoring the conventional wisdom and traditional approaches and established "rules" for presidential candidates (or even possible candidates), and she's being criticized and dismissed for doing just that.

Apparently they haven't noticed that such things are just how she rolls. And how well it's worked out for her so far. Why the hell should she stop now?

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Comments (75)

Admit it Jay, you're just t... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Admit it Jay, you're just throwing out red meat to reach the next comment milestone. :)

Personally, I hope she remains out there as a spoiler and provocateur, keep in the progressives distracted and nervous while keeping the cons honest.

Sometimes the "rules" are t... (Below threshold)

Sometimes the "rules" are there for our protection. Obama is breaking all the "rules" and look how great that's working out for us.

People romanticize Palin and give her mystical powers that she really doesn't have. She can be a major force in this election if she continues to fire up the base. If she's not careful she could become a prop in the hands of the Left and be used to help Obama in the end. Not good.

After a second read of you... (Below threshold)
Ron:

After a second read of your post I was reminded of the of the office holders who have walked away from power. It is a quality that in the long run is held in great esteem. I won't make fatuous comparisons to those who are honored for that quality.

But it does also make me think of the corollary, a quote I believe that I am mis-attributing to Brezhnev, "One becomes tired of money, women, food and alcohol but once you have tasted it you never grow tired of power."

That is a very good descrip... (Below threshold)
Trudy:

That is a very good description of Christian decision making. It does allow one to go ahead with peace of mind and confidence, because our trust is in God, and not in our own strength.

Success is in God's hands, all our responsibility lies in our faithfulness to his Will.

The martyrs died, and the world saw failure - yet through the grace of God, by their dying, many were brought to the faith.

Better the bible as your gu... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Better the bible as your guide, than the Communist Manifesto.

Thanks, Trudy. That means a... (Below threshold)

Thanks, Trudy. That means a lot. As I frequently say, I'm not a Christian -- but I have known quite a few, and I'm hardly anti-Christian. It's nice to hear that I actually do have a bit of a grasp on the stuff.

J.

JT, you Christian reasoning... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

JT, you Christian reasoning example is very good, but who or where did the needed wisdom get in the subconscience?

Also, when Palin returned to Alaska to govern, the left knew she was a political force so they DNC set out to marginalize and dismiss her as a viable candidate. The mainstream republican party has fallen for that scheme and are afraid of Palin also.

And the main point on Palin that is important to me is she speaks to the core common sense principles that are inside us. I think her voice is tiring at times, but I like what she says very much and agree with her most of the time. ww

Jay - the problem the loons... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Jay - the problem the loons have is that they believe wholeheartedly the narrative they've been spreading that she's stupid, uneducated, vicious and narrow-minded and so on... no matter what evidence is put before them, they will not believe the narrative can be in error.

(Rather like Obama, in reverse.)

Which is a damn shame. With the Beltway Bastards that want business as usual with the top slots reserved for those who've gone to the right schools (Harvard and Yale only, you plebeian shits!) and the 'journalists' and 'environmentalists' who think that just wanting to 'save the world' is sufficiently empowering to allow them to ignore physics, economics, legality and common sense - we badly need people grounded in reality and determined to do what's best for the country. Not what's best for their parties, their political theology, or their own egos, or to pick up points in the perpetual games played inside the Beltway - but for the people of the country who put their sorry butts in Washington in the first place.

The problem I'm seeing is that none of the current Repub candidates (aside from Cain, possibly) are going to be game-changers. They'll push, a bit, where they can - but take the chance of really upsetting the hierarchy? Make BIG changes? Not bloody likely. They'll make some small changes (if those) - about the equivalent of putting a new coat of paint on a wall when what needs to happen is that the wall come down.

Palin's serving a necessary function - she's a reminder that the current rules (more customs, I think, about 'how to run for President') inside the Beltway (as such) were set up by the folks in charge (in the media, primarily, since they're the arbiters of the 'right way' to run for office and campaign) to maintain their status.

Palin IS a game-changer - she doesn't play by the arbitrary rules set up to keep the status quo... quo. She's got her own (Or God's, depending) ideas about what's the best course of action, and she's not going to do what's 'proper' if it looks like it won't work.

Which really pisses off the loons. How dare she not play by their rules!

Yes, Sarah will quit every ... (Below threshold)
Art W:

Yes, Sarah will quit every difficult job she undertakes, that's for certain. But it's comforting to know she pray before screwing her constituency.

And then she can't keep simple American history correct.

And when that happens she gets on Fox News and lies.

Yeah, but God is moving her forward to bigger and better things.

Jeff Blogworthy: "Bet... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Jeff Blogworthy: "Better the bible as your guide, than the Communist Manifesto."

The comment of the year...spot on! Thanks, Jeff!!!

And before Sarah quit her j... (Below threshold)
Art W:

And before Sarah quit her job as Governor she could have easily raised money to cover her legal expenses. She had at that time and still has a rabid base of supporters. The cost of her legal defense wasn't the real reason Sarah quit. Money is easily obtained by Sarah. Hell, her overblown bus probably copst in excess of $500,000... testament (praise the lord) that she can raise money when needed.

But she's had a rough few months and when she asked God if it was ok if she just up and quit her job God told her yes, and she knew that screwing Alaska was the righteous thing to do.

Art swallows the DNC, liber... (Below threshold)
Carol:

Art swallows the DNC, liberal talking points whole. See, Ma, no thinking needed!!

Apparently Art missed the p... (Below threshold)

Apparently Art missed the part where her legal defense fund was the very subject of the final ethics complaint, and would have left her personally liable for those bills.

That's understandable -- I only said "They not only went after her proposed legal defense fund -- which would have allowed her supporters to help defray those huge legal bills", and it really looks like Art goes through life missing a LOT of things.

J.

It's appropriate that you w... (Below threshold)
Art W:

It's appropriate that you would fall back on that phrase = "no thinking needed" on a Sarah Palin post.

Sarah is the poster child for non-thinkers.

Sarah is the poster chil... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Sarah is the poster child for non-thinkers.

You got that right. Only not as you intended.

"Apparently Art missed t... (Below threshold)
Art W:

"Apparently Art missed the part where her legal defense fund was the very subject of the final ethics complaint, and would have left her personally liable for those bills. "

And apparently Jay missed that the ethics complaint was settled in her favor, and Sarah Palin would not have been left owing a dime.

Not one single dime.

Sarah quit, and just like Palin who throws up a cloud of mis-direction voere3d by her word salad, her defenders fdind any way they can to mislead and misdirect from the facts.

Palin quit, plain and simple. And it wasn't because she'd be personally liable for $500,000.

From Sarah Palin;s resignation speech:

Some say things changed for me on August 29th last year - the day John McCain tapped me to be his running-mate - I say others changed.

Let me speak to that for a minute.

Political operatives descended on Alaska last August, digging for dirt. The ethics law I championed became their weapon of choice. Over the past nine months I've been accused of all sorts of frivolous ethics violations - such as holding a fish in a photograph, wearing a jacket with a logo on it, and answering reporters' questions.

Every one - all 15 of the ethics complaints have been dismissed. We've won! But it hasn't been cheap - the State has wasted THOUSANDS of hours of YOUR time and shelled out some two million of YOUR dollars to respond to "opposition research" - that's money NOT going to fund teachers or troopers - or safer roads. And this political absurdity, the "politics of personal destruction" ... Todd and I are looking at more than half a million dollars in legal bills in order to set the record straight. And what about the people who offer up these silly accusations? It doesn't cost them a dime so they're not going to stop draining public resources - spending other peoples' money in their game.

It's pretty insane - my staff and I spend most of our day dealing with THIS instead of progressing our state now. I know I promised no more "politics as usual," but THIS isn't what anyone had in mind for ALASKA.

If I have learned one thing: LIFE is about choices!

And one chooses how to react to circumstances. You can choose to engage in things that tear down, or build up. I choose to work very hard on a path for fruitfulness and productivity. I choose NOT to tear down and waste precious time; but to build UP this state and our country, and her industrious, generous, patriotic, free people!

Life is too short to compromise time and resources... it may be tempting and more comfortable to just keep your head down, plod along, and appease those who demand: "Sit down and shut up", but that's the worthless, easy path; that's a quitter's way out. And a problem in our country today is apathy. It would be apathetic to just hunker down and "go with the flow".

Nah, only dead fish "go with the flow".

And only quitters pick up and leave half way through their term of office.

Actually JT, Art is the onl... (Below threshold)
Joe:

Actually JT, Art is the only person who has posted anything that resemembles anything reasonable.

Perhaps, she is a long lost sister of the Blues Brothers and is on a "Mission from God" ?

If you honestly believe that she walked away from the Alaskan Governorship because of a deep rooted concern for the common good, then it is you who are deluded. The woman is as calculating as any other politician and as far as I am concerned, the lady walked away from a sinking ship just as any other rodent would.

I am no fan of Obama amd will be glad to see the back of him, come 2013. But for too long, the vast majority of your posts were nothing more than long winded tirades against the man. You seemed to have switched tack and it is Palin who has caught your imagination, though this time you are a sycophant.

Tis just the pity, that you just cant come out and admit that you are besotted with the woman, in no less than 150 words. It reminds me of an old saying, that`s an aphorism for you "Empty vessels make the most................."

Art, regardless of whether ... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Art, regardless of whether you win or lose you must still pay legal bills for your defense. You forgot to bold this part:

Todd and I are looking at more than half a million dollars in legal bills in order to set the record straight.

That would only have continued. Good grief you're obtuse.

And apparently most of Amer... (Below threshold)
Art W:

And apparently most of America agrees with me. I guess the God we pray to isn't the same God who told Sarah to quit her job as Governor.

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll released on Tuesday finds that nearly two-thirds of Americans "definitely would not" vote for Sarah Palin for president of the United States.

According to the survey, 42 percent of Republicans say they would not support a hypothetical Palin 2012 campaign. Overall, 64 percent indicate they would not back the former Alaska governor should she mount a campaign for the White House. 63 percent regard Palin as unqualified for the role.

So there's really no chance whatsoever that Sarah Palin will end up on the GOP ticket as the Presidential candidate in 2012, much less have a chance a winning the election.

And Sarah knows that.

Sarah is about the money. She ran up wardrobe costs of several hundred thousand dollars in the 2008 election, and Sarah got a taste of the good life -- nice clothes, nice hotels, perks above and beyond what she was able to pilfer back in Alaska.

Somebody on the right side should tell Jay that giving support to Sarah Palin's effort to stay rich and stay in the spotlight is taking support away from viable GOP candidates.

But he won't listen.

The more the left bellows about Palin the more her supporters defend her and help her raise money.

Since she had no chance of winning the election, it's a sure thing that Sarah Palin's efforts these days is contributing to the reelection of Barack Obama.

Surprise, surprise -- Sarah isn't smart enough to know that.

Art W: "And only quitter... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Art W: "And only quitters pick up and leave half way through their term of office."

That's why Obama was careful to quit after on a THIRD of his! To be fair to Lord Barry, he never really did a damn thing as a Senator...it was just a stepping stone.

Palin, on the other hand, was a VERY successful Governor. But after the VP-run the media/Dems (same people) determined to lock her down with mounds of bullshit. She escaped, and it STILL pisses them off!

Yes, she "quit" -- and turn... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

Yes, she "quit" -- and turned Alaska's governance over to someone who WASN'T a target for every frivilous, trite, pretentious and asinine liberal "ethics complaint." In other words, she stepped away from the hot seat so that the state could return to normal.

Did she benefit personally by stepping down? Of course. She went on to other things, including making lots of money, raising her profile, promoting true conservatism and living rent-free inside liberal brains.

But whenever some lefty sniggers that Palin is a "quitter," I like to remind him or her that Obama "quit" the US Senate by virtue of almost never even being there -- because he got elected to the Senate to be elected president. Palin did the job she was supposed to do until the avalanche of liberal hate and intolerance became too much. Obama rarrely did his job in the Senate, and when he did, he voted present, voted for massive spending increases, or whined, moaned and complained about the very things he has embraced as president.

So, amuse yourself by calling Palin a "quitter." But that doesn't make it true.

Art is like Pavlov's dogs. ... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Art is like Pavlov's dogs. All one has to do is say "Palin" and he begins to salivate. Maybe a new term should be coined. Palinovian dog.

Art, do you read what you w... (Below threshold)
Hank:

Art, do you read what you write?

You wrote: "And apparently Jay missed that the ethics complaint was settled in her favor, and Sarah Palin would not have been left owing a dime.

Not one single dime."

And yet the speech you quoted to support your point states:

"Todd and I are looking at more than half a million dollars in legal bills..."

""Todd and I are looking... (Below threshold)
Art W:

""Todd and I are looking at more than half a million dollars in legal bills...""

And all she had to do was raise money in a legal defense fund.

Jay said "Apparently Art missed the part where her legal defense fund was the very subject of the final ethics complaint, and would have left her personally liable for those bills.

And Palin prevailed on the ethics complaint, remember?

From Palin's resignation speech "Every one - all 15 of the ethics complaints have been dismissed. We've won!"

So Sarah went out and raised the money. It didn't cost her a dime. It's a red herring.

In fact, she's still collecting money.

http://www.sarahpalinlegaldefensefund.org/

Let's see... "all 15 compla... (Below threshold)

Let's see... "all 15 complaints have been settled."

The fund complaint was #18.

#16 was over her wearing a jacket with one of Todd's sponsor's logos on it at one of his racing events.

#17 was saying that her having a PAC constituted a second job.

Art, you make it so easy when you make your argument, then blow it apart all by your lonesome. I can barely justify claiming an assist on this one.

J.

"As an agnostic, I have ... (Below threshold)

"As an agnostic, I have my own rational, non-mystic explanation for this."

Good post, Jay, but your statement is not "agnostic." It is effectively atheist. (I'm still waiting for someone to say, "I'm agnostic, so I will assume these theists are as likely to possess the truth as atheists.")

And our Christian faith may be wrong, but it is in no wise irrational. If the premises are true then Sarah's conclusions are reasonable.

A very good piece, my only ... (Below threshold)
narciso:

A very good piece, my only difference of opinion,
was not about the Jacket, but about the 'heresy'
of denouncing the stimulus, even daring Obama to
veto it, and start over, that was the real target.

"The fund complaint was ... (Below threshold)
Art W:

"The fund complaint was #18. "

And here's how #18 was settled:

An investigator has determined former Gov. Sarah Palin's legal defense fund broke state ethics law and said Palin has agreed to settle the matter by having the trust return more than $386,000 to donors.

Tim Petumenos, an Anchorage attorney hired by the state Personnel Board to investigate, said Thursday the legal defense fund violated state law because it "constituted using public office to obtain private benefit." He said the fund, which was set up while Palin was still governor, inappropriately said it was the "official website" of Palin, and made reference to her work in public office. Petumenos upheld an ethics complaint that was filed 15 months ago against the trust.

The trust has 90 days to return all the thousands of donations it received before she resigned as governor last summer, according to the settlement agreement signed by Palin.

Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/06/24/1339431/settlement-of-ethics-complaint.html#ixzz1OhDLOqjF

Palin was guilty of doing it wrong. But pols raise money for their legal defense all the time without quitting office.

And the fact is they did raise the money.

And they paid off their legal defense with that money.

And it didn't cost Sarah Palin one dime.

So Sarah didn't quit because it was costing her money to defend herself. Jay suggests she quit because it might cost her money to defend herself.

But it didn't.

And that's why she quit? She quit because she was too stupid to see a way out of her own personal financial problems? Financial problems which were a figment of her imagination?

According to Jay, that's why she quit.

History tells a different story -- but don't google Palin and 'history' these days - if you do you're in for a nasty word salad of confused facts and implausible denials. On her bus tour, true to form, Sarah hid from the press for weeks and when she finally answered a tough "gotcha" question with a wrong answer -- it became obvious why Sarah Palin is so disliked by Republicans and Dems alike.

And what was the question that Palin claims was a "gotcha" question?

What have you seen so far today [in Boston], and what are you going to take away from your visit?

OOOH, how dare the LamesStreamMedia ask those GOTCHA questions. THAT is the question Sarah Palin was asked which sparked her word salad of confusion on Paul Revere's ride.

What have you seen so far today [in Boston], and what are you going to take away from your visit?

She's not the brightest bulb on the tree, is she?

But not to change the subject on Sarah Palin the quitter, Sarah Palin did not quit because her legal defense was going to cost her personally. The fact is that it didn't cost her a dime.

http://www.sarahpalinlegaldefensefund.org/


JT, if I didn't know you be... (Below threshold)
epador:

JT, if I didn't know you better I'd think you'd sent a pre-post e-mail to Art W with easily deflatable talking points. He comes up with them so quickly he can't even type them clearly (but pastes just fine) and generates so many counter comments, I would think that at an expected 75 comments + per Palin post you'll only need 1,000 more Palin posts to get to 200k. But if you go for the Trifecta post, you can do it with about 750 posts.

John, I didn't come out and... (Below threshold)

John, I didn't come out and say it, but I'll go along with that sentiment. It's fairly consistent with my beliefs.

But don't go where you try to define my belief system according to yours. That has been tried before, and never ends well.

J.

Art, not content with shoot... (Below threshold)

Art, not content with shooting himself in the foot, reloads and starts shooting the other one.

The legal defense fund issue meant that Palin would have to start all over again... with NO guarantees that there wouldn't be more complaints about it. In fact, I'd say there was a 100% certainty that there would, considering the bullshit nature of all the complaints.

Art also doesn't address how the hypothetical "right" legal defense fund would also cover Palin's staff for the charges they were starting to pile up, nor the state's expenses investigating each and every one, let alone all the time and energy devoted to proving that all the bullshit charges were bullshit.

Art refuses to acknowledge that the ethics charges had NOTHING to do with ethics, but were a weapon designed to cripple Palin -- both as governor and personally. And they were a weapon that was going to be fired over and over and over and over again until she was ruined. There was no defense against the abuse of the ethics law. It was crafted with the presumption that the complainants would 1) have valid beefs and B) actually obey the law regarding confidentiality, even though it had no "teeth."

In other words, it wasn't written with Democratic hacks and asshole political operatives in mind.

In even shorter words, it wasn't written with people like Art in mind.

J.

Art WHow about all... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Art W

How about all that money Obama collected running for President from peoople who said they were from Iran?

That is against election law. Of course we know that laws dont mean anything to dems except to try to catch republicans doing something wrong.

"But don't go where you ... (Below threshold)

"But don't go where you try to define my belief system according to yours. That has been tried before, and never ends well."

Now that would be irrational!

It's important to keep in mind that both belief systems are based on faith. Actually, all belief systems, since no system can validate itself. I tend to get cranky with the sloppy thinking of, say, a Richard Dawkins, which just assumes that the achievements made inside his system somehow validate it, so that he can argue from the assumption that his own system needs no defense, and it is up to theists to "prove" something.

I like to think my belief s... (Below threshold)

I like to think my belief system is rational, John. The existence of a supreme being can neither be proven nor disproven, so I leave it there.

Rather simple and elegant, to me.

J.

"Art, not content with s... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

"Art, not content with shooting himself in the foot, reloads and starts shooting the other one."

After first putting both feet in his mouth. Hmm.

Art eats, shoots, and leaves.

I find it interesting that ... (Below threshold)
Rance:

I find it interesting that public figures who "pray for guidance" always seem to get the message to continue on the course that they have already selected.

Interesting supposition you... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Interesting supposition you have there. Didn't know you could read minds across both time and space Rance.

Rance,To know that... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Rance,

To know that you have to be a mind-reader. But, I grant you that your description is often true. All of us seek self-justification. Christians or public figures have no corner on that market. Even those seeking council often choose people who they believe will agree with them. I find it interesting that some look for ways to single out praying people for criticism of what is true of humanity.

Keep posting about SarahCud... (Below threshold)
Sep14:

Keep posting about SarahCuda and will be to 200K by November.

And about this quitting stu... (Below threshold)
Sep14:

And about this quitting stuff. I only wish Barry lackwit had enough brains to quit.

Jay Tea wrote, "...The exis... (Below threshold)
C Hils:

Jay Tea wrote, "...The existence of a supreme being can neither be proven nor disproven..."

I know that this is off topic, but actually the existence of a supreme being CAN be proven, all one has to do is to ask, and they will be provided with all the proof that they desire!

AIN'T goin' there, Hills...... (Below threshold)

AIN'T goin' there, Hills... because as Christian-friendly as I am, I do NOT take evangelizing well. I tend to push back -- and push back rather rudely.

J.

Jay Tea, I wasn't suggestin... (Below threshold)
CHils:

Jay Tea, I wasn't suggesting that you ask me or any other human on earth, Ask HIM!

"I know that this is off... (Below threshold)

"I know that this is off topic, but actually the existence of a supreme being CAN be proven, all one has to do is to ask, and they will be provided with all the proof that they desire!"

No, "Seek and you will find" does not refer to proof, which is a technical philosophical term. What you will be given is enough of whatever you personally need to have faith.

That's what Pascal meant, when he wrote that "the unhappy atheist will be saved." (Link.) That is, the atheist who is a seeker, who is not contented with his state, will find God, either in this life or the next.

Huh."Reply hazy, t... (Below threshold)

Huh.

"Reply hazy, try again later."

J.

Dang I wish you had a Tweet... (Below threshold)
JP Author Profile Page:

Dang I wish you had a Tweet button. This is a post that needs wider distribution. Spot on.

I only wish Barry lackwi... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

I only wish Barry lackwit had enough brains to quit.

That'd leave us with Biden.

Hmmm. You know... that might not be so bad, come to think of it.

"Reply hazy, try again l... (Below threshold)

"Reply hazy, try again later."

Sorry, Jay, I was being more technical than is appropriate to this audience. I'll wander off elsewhere...

Palin was guilty o... (Below threshold)
Eric:
Palin was guilty of doing it wrong. But pols raise money for their legal defense all the time without quitting office. And the fact is they did raise the money. And they paid off their legal defense with that money.And it didn't cost Sarah Palin one dime.

ArtW, You are totally incorrect. What other pols do is irrelevant because Palin was subject to Alaska's Ethics Laws. Under Alaska Law, the Governor is required to personaly incur all costs related to defending against any ethics charges. The costs may not be passed back to the state. When she created the Legal Defense Fund, to offset the costs that she had to bear, the legal defense fund itself was found to be unethical.

While the investigation found the fund to be improper, it also found that Palin did not knowingly violate the ethics law since she sought out and received legal counsel that said it was okay.

But since it was found to be unethical, she was required to return all money ($386,856) donated to it while she was Governor.

In Short:
1) The Legal Defense Fund was found to be unethical. So she wasn't allowed to have one as long as she was Governor.

2) She still had to pay for all of the legal bills for defending all of the other ethics charges, even the ones she was found innocent of violating.

3) As part of the consent decree, she was required to return all of the money she received into the fund while Governor, ($386,856).

So here is the problem she was faced with -
What was she supposed to do? Since she had to return all of the money donated to the fund, can't use the fund to solicite any more money as long as she was governor, and still has to pay the lawyer bills ($600,000) for any past, present and future ethics charges.

Art W. - Got some ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Art W. -

Got some free advice for you.

Look, man, I know you LOVE talking points. You eat them, drink them, clothe yourself in them, sleep in piles of them, use them in the bathroom and brush your teeth with them. (Not the same ones you use in the bathroom - that'd be gross. Eww.)

Maybe, somehow, you figure if you repeat the talking points you can block out any actual research into the issues, keep people from looking at the actual history behind Palin, maybe keep people from feeling somewhat sympathetic towards her and all that.

You're failing.

Badly.

People are starting to get wise to the whole talking points gig, you know?

They've seen what it lead to in the 2008 election, and they're suffering through the results of a talking point blizzard that's damn near frozen the economy to a standstill.

They understand that simply chanting 'Yes we can!" and "Hope and Change!" doesn't create jobs.

It doesn't create a sensible energy policy.

It doesn't reduce unemployment.

(Might have made you use some talking points for cleanup, though...)(And if that's the case... eww.)

So the more frantic you get, the less credible you sound.

You're not repeating anything that hasn't been pushed by the media and debunked - you seem to think that if you just chant the magic words enough that Palin will suddenly turn into a frog.

But at this point, you've really only managed to turn yourself into a clown.

I doubt that was your intent (you probably saw yourself as a missionary proselytizing to the Unconverted Heathen) - but that's been the result.

Take a rest, man. Unless you're getting paid by the post (which wouldn't surprise me) you've done the Anti-Palin faction no favors at all, and likely spurred a fair number of people into looking a whole lot deeper at her history than you'd want.

So, either quit or keep up the good work - whichever you think is more appropriate.

Have a nice day!

Actually let me modify that... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Actually let me modify that last paragraph

So here is the problem she was faced with -
What was she supposed to do?

Since she had to return all of the money donated to the fund, can't use the fund to solicite any more money as long as she was governor, was still being subjected to frivolous ethics charges by her political enemies, and still has to pay the lawyer bills ($600,000) for any past, present and future ethics charges.

Hey Art W.""""But ... (Below threshold)
Myronhalo:

Hey Art W.

""""But she's had a rough few months and when she asked God if it was ok if she just up and quit her job God told her yes, and she knew that screwing Alaska was the righteous thing to do.

11. Posted by Art W """"

Isn´t your obsessive hatred a little too obvious? I didn´t bother to read all of your comments, because the ones I read are all laced with hatred for her and anything Christian. I hope she does run for office and get elected President just to spite you.
It would be justice.

To my friend Jay.

You seem to find fault with someone who looks to God for help in making decisions. Have you read the constitution of the United States or the Declaration of Independence lately? Have you studied American history, especially in the second half of the 18th century?

You consider yourself an intellectual but are denying the history of our nation when you make fun of people like Sarah Palin because she looks to a higher power for help.

Have you read any of the prayers of George Washington or Abraham Lincoln? Those guys were sure stupid for believing in a supreme God who could help them and this fledgling nation, right? Much of our "wonderful" race of human beings alive today would send them back to reform school for being such idiots. They didn´t even believe in evolution. They hadn´t had the benefit of the enlightenment that we have. How dare they found and defend and preserve our Christian nation?

I wish that all of our leaders in Washington believed less in themselves and their inerrant ability to make decisions for us, and sought help from someone a lot wiser than they are.
God certainly couldn´t mess things up much more than they have, could He?
I guess if you believe in a God as small as man, or believe you can´t even communicate with Him, you would naturally come to your conclusions.

Many people say they don´t believe in God because they have never seen Him. So what? I´ve never seen Jupiter, but I believe in the heavy planet. At best, any one human being can know only about 1 tenth of 1 percent of all there is to know in our world. Any truly honest person will have to admit that God could still be found in the 99.9 % he doesn´t know yet. He can´t write God off just because he hasn´t met Him yet.
You can´t be an atheist or an agnostic and be a "scientist" at the same time. Until you have looked at all the available evidence, you can´t pronounce God dead.

Just letting you know I´m still alive.

I thought I said that I ten... (Below threshold)

I thought I said that I tend to take evangelizing as rude, and reply with my own rudeness. Seems like someone thought I was bluffing.

Jay Tea don't bluff.

Myron, don't put words in my mouth just so you can faithfully act out your little evangelical script. I don't play that way.

-- I didn't find fault with Palin's decision-making process. As I noted, it's worked out pretty damned well for her.

-- I don't call myself or consider myself an intellectual. Yes, I consider myself intelligent, but I never represent myself as an intellectual.

-- I've read some of the prayers of past leaders. I find them quite insightful into their ways of thinking and circumstances.

"you can't be an atheist or an agnostic and be a 'scientist' at the same time." Fuck you. People do it all the time, without your blessing. Deal with it.

"...you can't pronounce God dead." Well, then, it's a good thing I didn't do that, isn't it?

Myron, "old friend," take your evangelical script and talking points and shove them up your ass.

Have a nice day. And in a way, it's a shame you're still alive -- it's denying you the affirmation that you're right about God.

J. (Who begins all his prayers with "to whom it may concern")

JT, you don't scare me. I a... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

JT, you don't scare me. I am still praying for you. ;) ww

Another great piece, though... (Below threshold)
davidt:

Another great piece, though I don't know about this part,

"She could "go along to get along," work within the system to try to check the most flagrant abuses, but generally turn a blind eye to the worst of it to preserve her political viability, but take careful notes so she could address it once she was in a position of authority that would allow her to do so. (I call this the "Barack Obama" option, as it so perfectly captures his role in the Chicago political machine.)"

Obama addressing corruption in the Chicago Machine once he's in a position of authority that would allow him to do so might be a bit of a stretch since he is the willing, deliberate product of that corruption.

>iHow would you li... (Below threshold)
Stan:

>i

How would you like it if every crackpot came after you accusing of you everything under the sun? You would probably go and hide under a rock somewhere.

that posts was meant for ar... (Below threshold)
Stan:

that posts was meant for artW

Stan: "How would you lik... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Stan: "How would you like it if every crackpot came after you accusing of you everything under the sun? You would probably go and hide under a rock somewhere.

I believe that was what they were wanting - to force her to get out of politics any way they could.

Yeah, and Ol' Darth V. thought he was one up when he sliced Obi-wan...

Just remember, Art - Don't let anyone behind the curtain! The Great and Powerful Obama's commanding it!

25 thumbs down and not a si... (Below threshold)
Joe:

25 thumbs down and not a single repudiation!

So much so for debate......

Art. Good luck with the good fight.

Sadly, you are wating your time. There is no room for debate. The irony is, is that Jay Tea is an agnostic or an athiest (he`s not sure himself but he`s definitely one or t`other!) but on the other hand he expects you to accept his word as gospel.

25 thumbs down and not a si... (Below threshold)
Joe:

25 thumbs down and not a single repudiation!

So much so for debate......

Art. Good luck with the good fight.

Sadly, you are wating your time. There is no room for debate. The irony is, is that Jay Tea is an agnostic or an athiest (he`s not sure himself but he`s definitely one or t`other!) but on the other hand he expects you to accept his word as gospel.

Willie, that doesn't bother... (Below threshold)

Willie, that doesn't bother me. Heck, I even appreciate it, a little. I know the spirit in which it's intended. It's the in-my-face stuff that gets on my nerves.

Which I think I made fairly clear...

J.

Joe, what did Art say that ... (Below threshold)

Joe, what did Art say that was NOT thoroughly repudiated, debunked, folded spindled, bent and mutilated? 'Cuz from my angle, it was a clean sweep.

J.

Actually JT, I think Joe wa... (Below threshold)
Burt:

Actually JT, I think Joe was complaining that no-one was arguing with him... I think it's called arrogance, to believe that you have actually said something that warrants a response.

Actually JT, I think Joe wa... (Below threshold)
Burt:

Actually JT, I think Joe was complaining that no-one was arguing with him... I think it's called arrogance, to believe that you have actually said something that warrants a response.

Oh, Joe was talking about h... (Below threshold)

Oh, Joe was talking about his comment #17!

Joe, no one was repudiating it because you didn't say anything worth repudiating. At least Art had some substance. Incredibly wrong and stupid substance, but substance nonetheless.

You, you just babbled. And were ignored.

J.

Sarah is about the money... (Below threshold)
Stan:

Sarah is about the money. She ran up wardrobe costs of several hundred thousand dollars in the 2008 election, and Sarah got a taste of the good life -- nice clothes, nice hotels, perks above and beyond what she was able to pilfer back in Alaska

Art Art Where did you come up with that idea? Must have been reading the three year old DNC talking points again. The McCain/Palin campaign paid for those clothes, hotels and other perks McCain also got those expenses covered by the campaign. Not one dime of taxpayers dollars went to those expenses. The Obama campaign also paid for his clothes and other expenses and you and your butt buddies seem to think that was just peachy keen.

Hi Jay,It´s nice t... (Below threshold)
Myronhalo:

Hi Jay,

It´s nice to see you read my comments.

Have a nice day.

#59Debate? You hav... (Below threshold)
Sep14:

#59

Debate? You have to finish potty training first.

You learn a lot about peopl... (Below threshold)
largebill:

You learn a lot about people from how they react to Sarah Palin.

Yeah, Post 70!... (Below threshold)
epador:

Yeah, Post 70!

epador, I'm tempted to dele... (Below threshold)

epador, I'm tempted to delete one of Burt's duplicate comments JUST to throw off your numbering.

Yes, Myron, I read your comment. Pity that you didn't read my original piece before making your first one -- you might have not made so many stupid mistakes in it. But you have your script to stick to, and I guess it would be awkward to have to rewrite it to actually reflect what was being said.

J.

Sure JT, Pick on old Burt..... (Below threshold)
Burt:

Sure JT, Pick on old Burt... Even tho Joe also ran a duplicate series at 59 and 60. It's not hard to figure out who is your favorite! Ya ever think maybe you got a sticky 'submit' button?

Jay TeaI find it s... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Jay Tea

I find it strange that some people on the left have a problem believing in God when they have no problem at all believing in Obama... I mean Satan. :)

I think it's very interesti... (Below threshold)
PBunyan:

I think it's very interesting that ArtW has such a low opionion of Governor Palin, yet makes that claim that by resigning her Governorship, she was "screwing her constituency".

If Art really believed everything he claims about Palin, wouldn't her resigning be a good thing for the people of Alaska?

Oh, what am I thinking?--If Art posessed any logic or critial thinking skills he wouldn't be an Obama supporter...

I did read your post. I cor... (Below threshold)
myronhalo:

I did read your post. I correctly saw that you attribute her good fortune to a roll of the dice.

"Apparently they haven't noticed that such things are just how she rolls. And how well it's worked out for her so far. Why the hell should she stop now?"

You basically said that she had been lucky so far, not that there really was any reason to believe a higher being had anything to do with it. The people I mentioned in my post certainly wouldn´t agree with you.

So, I´ll get back to my agenda, and you can go back to yours.

For what it´s worth, evangelism comes from 2 Greek words, "Eu" and "Angelion". The first means "good" and the second means "message" (also where the word Angel comes from). So, someone who is evangelizing is only telling the good news. You fear someone telling you the good news because it implies that you need it. I´m not trying to twist your arm - it would be hard at this distance. I am trying to have a dialogue about something which is very important to me. When you title a post "Thy Will be Done", what do you expect in the comments section? - A recipe for oatmeal cookies?




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