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Hybrid Hypocrites

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Joseph Moser at The Daily Caller highlights one of the biggest condundrums for environmentatlists. The technology they're counting on to rid us of our on foreign oil requires a lot of copper - a veritable crapload of the stuff.

Recently, the EPA declared a new corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standard of 34.1 mpg by 2016. Going a step further, the NRDC is demanding Obama administration officials set even stronger global warming pollution and fuel-efficiency standards to ensure cars and trucks average at least 60 mpg by 2025. The hope is that higher standards and government "incentives" will encourage automakers to produce more fuel-efficient hybrid and electric cars.

One problem: the more electric a vehicle is, the more copper it contains.

Each hybrid contains about 100 pounds of copper -- most of that is in the electrical cables and the electric motor. A conventional car only contains about 50 pounds of copper.

Other "green" technologies also contain lots of copper. A five-megawatt wind turbine is made of nearly five tons of copper and solar panels are up to 60 percent copper. Blocking future mine construction effectively jeopardizes the very technology greens want to power their vision of a "clean-energy future."

Turns out there's a major discovery of said copper (and gold) near Bristol Bay, Alaska, about 200 miles southwest of Anchorage, that if unearthed, would produce over 80 billion tons of copper. Even though it's still in the planning stages, the Pebble Mine appears to hold some of the largest natural reserves of copper and gold in the world.

Environmental groups are fiercely opposing the proposed mine. As noted at Resourceful Earth, environmentalists want to massively scale up development of electric vehicles, solar panels, windmills, etc but don't want to approve of projects that will extract these minerals need to build these new green products from the earth. They'd much rather that the messy business of producing "green" be done overseas...


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Comments (23)

The 'dirty' secret about be... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The 'dirty' secret about being green is that all that battery technology and electricity production is actually less environmentally friendly that traditional internal combustion engines. Electric vehicles are actually more costly to produce in terms of CO2 emissions and in the vast majority of the world the electricity is produced with coal fired plants so operating them produces more CO2 than operating the equivalent number of gas powered cars.

I recall reading an article that if China were converted to 100% electric vehicles tomorrow their emissions would increase by 300M tons per year.

It's not about the environment. Never has been.

"It's not about the envi... (Below threshold)
Art W:

"It's not about the environment. Never has been."

No, life isn't as simple as the simple-minded pretend it is.

Of course there's more to it -- something that conservatives usually forget. We HAVE to reduce our dependency on foreign oil, and hybrids and all-electric vehicles accomplish that. I can get up to 50 miles per gallon in my Prius.

Copper in Alaska in exchange for less oil imported? Sounds good to me.

We have to reduce our depen... (Below threshold)
Sep14:

We have to reduce our dependency on Government. The rest will follow.

Listen to the lying little ... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Listen to the lying little pervert Art W: "...reduce our dependency on foreign oil ..." while Obama and Democrats block as much drilling and extraction as they possibly can, from ANWR to the Gulf of Mexico, while giving billions of our "stimulus" money to Brazil to develop offshore oil capacity. Obama even told them we would become their customers . . .

Note, also, how Art conveni... (Below threshold)

Note, also, how Art conveniently overlooks that it's the environmentalists, not the conservatives, that are blocking the copper mining...

J.

I'm not sure if it's hypocr... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

I'm not sure if it's hypocrisy as much as it is stupidity. Leftists eschew thought.

art W said:

Copper in Alaska in exchange for less oil imported? Sounds good to me.

Alaskan copper to replace foreign oil(?) good.

Alaskan oil to replace foreign oil bad.

Like I said. Stupid.

Car makers have achieved hi... (Below threshold)
Bob:

Car makers have achieved higher mileage by reducing vehicle weight. The problem is that lighter vehicles are not as safe as heavier vehicle. Thus, the cost of being "environmentally friendly" is the loss of a couple thousand lives in the US each year due directly to CAFE standards. Whoever runs against President Obama should mention this when BHO starts on one of his "green jobs" rants.

It's also worth noting that... (Below threshold)

It's also worth noting that (after probably exhausting the supply of wiring and tubing available in vacant buildings) the latest targets of urban copper thieves are rooftop solar panels -- another accomplishment that the Republicans should eagerly add to Obama's "green" and economic resumes.

Ironically, while the eviro... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Ironically, while the eviros are protesting against VW, that company is producing turbo-diesels that get better mileage than most hybrids. And if you take you car on any long trip the diesel outperforms the hybrid quite handily. But that doesn't matter because VW is EVIL.

Art W"Of course th... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Art W

"Of course there's more to it -- something that conservatives usually forget. We HAVE to reduce our dependency on foreign oil, and hybrids and all-electric vehicles accomplish that"

What liberals usually forget.

a. we need infastructure for more electric cars. The power grid is bad enough as it is.
b. We can reduce our dependence on foreign oil by nuclear power plants, domestically producing more oil and natural gas. Something liberals are against.

So in short Art W, like most libs, say "Here is the solution" but want nothing to do with the things needed to make that solution work and are totally against the steps needed to make it work. They just think that unicorn farts will magically fill in the void.

In short this link demonstrates the liberals solution to just about everything.

http://blog.stackoverflow.com/wp-content/uploads/then-a-miracle-occurs-cartoon.png


"Of course there's more to ... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

"Of course there's more to it -- something that conservatives usually forget. We HAVE to reduce our dependency on foreign oil, and hybrids and all-electric vehicles accomplish that."

Hey Art, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS. All those 'green' cars also need exotic metals for their motors. Guess which country has an abundance of those rare-earth metals, while we have NONE. China.

So we switch from being dependent on Saudi Arabia to China?

Yeah, that will surely make us 'energy independent', won't it?

It's not entirely true that... (Below threshold)
jim m:

It's not entirely true that we have no resources for these metals. We do, especially in Alaska and the Southwest. But like drilling for oil, mining is virtually illegal in this country.

We have plenty of resources but the left has made it illegal to use them. The left would rather be able to demagogue the issues trotting out the "We need to reduce our dependance on foreign oil" crap. They demagogue the issue in public and then go to DC and pass laws making it illegal to do the very things that would relieve that dependance.

The left realizes that just like welfare and unemployment, that if they actually solve these problems they won't have any issues to demagogue so the strategy is to keep the problems going as long as you can. AS they are fond of saying, "Never let a good crisis go to waste." Energy dependance is something the left not only wants, but it needs as a political weapon. They have no intention of ever fixing it.

"Note, also, how Art con... (Below threshold)
Art W:

"Note, also, how Art conveniently overlooks that it's the environmentalists, not the conservatives, that are blocking the copper mining..."

Notice how Jay Tea misrepresents the facts in order to demonize the people he hates - the same way many conservatives do?

Nobody has blocked anything. There is opposition to the mining plan, which the EPA has taken under study -- but nobody is blocking anything.

Meanwhile, while the left i... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Meanwhile, while the left is demagoguing the issue they have delayed acting on the oil pipeline from Canada. They have delayed it so much that China is entering talks to build the pipeline to them instead.

So obama in kowtowing to the leftist enviro lobby will ensure that we lose access to cheap oil from our closest ally and instead send it to what is possibly our most dangerous enemy.

This country may survive obama, but the damage will take decades to undo.

There is opposition to t... (Below threshold)
jim m:

There is opposition to the mining plan, which the EPA has taken under study -- but nobody is blocking anything.

That's right. Nothing is blocked. We are just going to study it. Then we will appoint a fact finding commission. Then we will find a new reason to do more studies. Nothing will officially block the mining plan. The dems with their lefty enviro friends will just delay it so much that the mining concerns take their resources and go elsewhere.

The strategy is that they want to keep the ball in play so they never allow anything to be fixed so they always have an issue to demagogue to the public. indefinite delays with no timetable for resolution are as effective as an outright legal decision blocking the mining. The left knows that and so does everyone else. Saying that there is no blocking of the mining is nothing more than sophistry.

The strategy is that the... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

The strategy is that they want to keep the ball in play so they never allow anything to be fixed so they always have an issue to demagogue to the public.

That's been an ongoing tactic - never allow a problem to be fixed that might be useful later.

"Nobody has blocked anyt... (Below threshold)
SShiell:

"Nobody has blocked anything."

Let me know when they start mining! What a Dick! (Oops, sorry, I gotta remember that Obama's the Dick.)

Art W"Nobody has b... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Art W

"Nobody has blocked anything. There is opposition to the mining plan, which the EPA has taken under study -- but nobody is blocking anything"

Yeah sorta like when the oil companies have plenty of leases to drill on. Except of course when they apply for permission to drill like BP did in Alaska after spending billions they are told "sorry you have a villag of 200 that is 70 miles from the drill site that will be affected by the noise of the oil tankers so your application is denied"

Denial is more than a river in Egypt, it is the liberals way of dealing with people actually trying to cut our dependeance on foreign oil

Hey ArtFrom the ar... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Hey Art

From the article

"
In late March, EPA administrator Lisa Jackson attended a reception at the Supreme Court for opponents of Pebble Mine to speak about the study. While she did not mention Pebble, her appearance at what was essentially a pep rally for those opposing the mine signals that Jackson has already made up her mind"

How about a wager. If she permits the mine to go forward I will never post here again. If the permit is denied than you never post here again.

Care to put your money where your mouth is?


If you are going to debate ... (Below threshold)
Sep14:

If you are going to debate with Wart, make sure to have a kool-aide manual handy.

I dont understand the miles... (Below threshold)
kevan:

I dont understand the miles per gallon on those hybrids.Amp hours,volts ,watts.whaat about those old bikes you peddle to get started and you got the little bittie motor to cruz.manual labor and gas added to gether to get thaat b/s highway mile rating.why dont we hear the city mpg any more.what the SAM are we going to do with the batteries at the end.you would have to get over 150,000 miles on that battery/hybrid care to get any form of "going green" and money back.those cars are so damn costly and the higher the MPG goes the higher the price in fuel and car to buy.We are the only idiots to lace gas with ethanol.thats why are fuel is cheaper then the world!!!!! and less efficient to 100% fuel.bit that you greeners(relabeled socialist)

I don't know, I think the e... (Below threshold)
steve:

I don't know, I think the enviornmentalists are being entirely consistent. Reduce pollution, don't mine, don't log, don't fish, etc. consequences be dammed.

The mine would generate 80 ... (Below threshold)
Hale Orviston:

The mine would generate 80 billion pounds of copper, there is a big difference between pounds and tons.

The Bristol Bay commercial fishery supports over 12,000 jobs, the sport fishing industry generates $166 million for the state, and well the fishery as a whole provides roughly $450 – $500 million a year in regionally driven revenue.

The National Academy of Sciences, Committee on Critical Mineral Impacts of the US Economy has noted that while copper is certainly essential to the economy, the mineral is not in a critical state of supply.

There are other copper deposits out there that do not sit a top spawning habitat for the world’s largest salmon ecosystem.




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