Daily Kos

BabyGate: Explosive New Details [Photos+Video]

Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:39:54 PM PDT

Yesterday, the nation at large was introduced to Sarah Palin's fraudulent claims of maternity by numerous photographs, video, and a timeline that made even those accepting of the 'official' story turn their heads in confusion.

The revelation that had been whispered among the Alaskan legislature was explosive. Sarah Palin is not the mother of Trig Palin. Her daughter is the mother. Scarce if any refutations to the contrary have come forward, and now damning incidents and evidence has come to light.

Mothers of the world have reeled back in disgust and horror at Sarah's dangerous and possibly fatal story of flying 4000 miles even as she was supposedly in the process of entering labor a month early. Sarah needs to honestly answer for her lies, promptly.

As evidenced in the original diary, Sarah has been photographed during her surprise 'pregnancy' as trim, fit, and altogether non-pregnant. Once again presenting Sarah at seven months 'pregnant':

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And now newly juxtaposed to Sarah pregnant with her son, Track Palin, in 1989 (right):

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The disparity is shocking. Any mother of more than one child will tell you that a female body does not become fitter with each pregnancy, but instead the exact opposite, gaining more and more weight quickly with each successive pregnancy (in Sarah's case, four). Sarah is a perfectly healthy woman, but is far from a petite size, and would not be able to hide a second trimester pregnancy from anyone with a set of eyeballs.

bloggerinterrupted has culled together news videos from the time of the original announcement (seven months into the surprise 'pregnancy'), which reveals no protruding belly line, and the total shock of fellow Alaskans:

Of note, the Newsweek conference at the end was entitled "Newsweek: Women & Leadership". Sarah would issue the statement on her pregnancy the next day (she didn't mention pregnancy once during the presentation), and Newsweek host Karen Breslau was as surprised as anyone:

At the time, I didn't know that Palin, clad in a loose, dark dress, was seven months pregnant with her fifth child. An aide called me the next day to tell me that Palin would be announcing the pregnancy at home in Alaska and that she had wanted me to know as a courtesy. She was sorry she hadn't mentioned it the night before.

A convenient reasoning, allowing Sarah to deftly avoid questioning of any sort before, during, or after the presentation in Los Angeles. This isn't the first time Sarah has fooled someone on video.
In yesterday's diary, a video of Sarah hiking around Juneau, Alaska (and standing in high heels at six months 'pregnant') was presented by Alaska HDTV. They have since issued a statement:

Regarding her pregnancy, all I can say is that it was not obvious to the three of us who were there during the filming. At this time she would be somewhere in her 7th month of pregnancy, which could be hidden with clever clothing, jackets, etc.

In addition, these videos also mark stark contrasts toanother video of Sarah's career as a Sports News Journalist, taped here when she was pregnant with child in 1989. Her facial features are altered, a common effect of pregnancy that Sarah miraculously avoided during her fifth with Trig.

Fast forward to the alleged 'pregnancy' itself, an obstetrician commented at Talking Points Memo that he has serious issues with Palin's decisions:

She claims she flew from Texas to Anchorage after she was having contractions and leaking amniotic fluid.  This simply doesn't make sense.

I am a physician and I deliver babies (my last delivery was about 36 hours ago).

...

There is very little chance that a 44 year old woman who was pregnant with her fifth child would last 8 hours with ruptured membranes and contractions.  Especially when the baby was approximately 4 weeks early; She would have delivered this baby on the plane.

...

Playing the back seat doctor here, my advice would have been get in the car and go to the nearest hospital with a maternity ward.  This is called Premature Preterm Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) and it is dangerous.

...

10:30pm - Palin arrives in Anchorage (approximately 22 hours after membranes ruptured, you start to get worried at 12 hours).

11:30pm - Palin checks into Mat-Su regional in Wasilla, Alaska.  (It seems kind of strange that she wouldn't have gone to Providence in Anchorage which has the highest level maternity care in the state.  You would want a child with genetic defects to be delivered in a bigger place with more services available.)

...

If she knew her child had this disorder and got on a plane with leaking amniotic fluid, then she shows incredibly poor judgment.

Mentioned below the statement, is the revelation that after landing in Anchorage, Sarah drove past both Providence and Anchorage Regional, facilities ideal for premature deliveries, as both are equipped with neonatal intensive care units (NCIU). The doctor who supposedly approved of Sarah taking such risks, and later delivered Trig? Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who has since been scrubbed from the Mt-Su Regional Medical Center website. Web Archive naturally shows her at the top of the scrubbed list. Sarah's relationship with Cathy has formed over the years, and in 2002 (then Mayor) Sarah named her Family Physician of the Year. In May 2007, (then Governor) Sarah appointed Cathy to the Alaska Health Care Strategies Planning Council, as evidenced by this scrubbed State Press Release. Special connections for special friends.

Mat-Su Regional, the hospital where Trig Palin was delivered, surprisingly does not list Trig on their own list of babies born in that facility for that day of April 18th. A peculiar oddity, as hospitals are usually proud when a local celebrity gives birth within  their facility.

Which brings us back to Bristol Palin, the rightful mother of Trig Palin. Over the course of seven months, Bristol had three separate driving offenses, one to carry insurance, one for speeding, and another one for a collision. As a sixteen year-old driver, incidents such as these happen all the time. This is noteworthy, however, due to her being out of school at the time due to the family excuse of 'having infectious mononucleosis' for a period of five to eight months. The police statement reads:

Wasilla Police Department
On February 8, 2008, at 1737 hours, Wasilla Police responded to two vehicle collision at Seward Meridian Parkway and Fireweed Drive. Investigation revealed that Bristol Palin, age 17 of Wasilla, was driving a 4-door sedan and attempted to turn into a business when she struck a 2-door sedan driven by Joshua Moffet, age 19, of Wasilla. Palin was issued a citation for Failing to Use Due Care to Avoid a Collision. Moffet was issued a citation for an expired registration and no proof of insurance.

Out of school, and in a fender-bender located in front a Medical Family Center. Not good.

Back to contrasts, we see here Bristol at Sarah's Governor inauguration:

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As flat of a stomach as any. And now later during Bristol's pregnancy:

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Bristol & Trig have been pushed backstage or elsewhere in McCain/Palin appearances already, as evidenced by the Washington, PA campaign stop in which Sarah stated Trig was napping while Bristol was watching over him. In any regard, they looked wonderful together at the initial Vice-Presidential unveiling in Dayton, Ohio on Friday:

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Sarah? Not so interested.

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Tearing apart a mother from her child in the public's eye for political points is the lowest of the low. Bristol Palin deserves the truth from Sarah, delivered to the public, immediately. This charade on the national stage is pathetic, and needs to end promptly.

Digg It.

Yesterday's Diary

Tags: Sarah Palin, Vice President, 2008 elections, Republicans, pregnancy, Bristol Palin, unsubstantiated rumor (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 762 comments

  •  Please stop. (34+ / 0-)

    Please. This is NONE OF OUR GODDAMN BUSINESS.

    "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." WJC

    by BoiseBlue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:42:02 PM PDT

  •  Why do you hate hope? (8+ / 0-)

    There is no Left Wing. Left is the truth.

    by BA BarackUS on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:42:26 PM PDT

  •  Deja Vu? Same diarist as yesterday that was (6+ / 0-)

    deleted.

    "Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot."

    by Gramarye on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:32 PM PDT

  •  Probably going to be banned (6+ / 0-)

    You've already put it out there.

    Can't you just let this run its course.?

    Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

    by ROGNM on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:42 PM PDT

  •  . (8+ / 0-)

    -9.0, -8.3. Member of the League of Really Embarrassed Alaskans since 8/29/08

    by SensibleShoes on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:46 PM PDT

    •  Excellent point. And yet, here I am . . . (0+ / 0-)

      I think I'm ashamed of myself, but on the other hand, if this is true, I do find the behavior abhorrent.  Again, I'm in a quandary.  Would prefer to let the National Enquirer ferret this out, though . . .

      •  but what if they don't? (3+ / 0-)

        GWB's Nat't Guard svc, Rush's dope habit, Bennett's gambling, I think it is naive to think that teams of crack reporters are right now pouring over data that is freely available in the public domain and once the public is made aware of hypocrisy the hypocrite retires in disgrace. It doesn't always work that way.
        Perhaps there is no story here and we will all look a little silly.
        Perhaps though, dKos is advancing the greater discourse by forcing this issue right now.
        And if it does prove correct it would be delicious to see those who find examination of the topic so offensive have all of their bad language thrown back at them- my my all the f***'s thrown at people for the sin of having an inquiring mind.

  •  IS that a photoshop- Palin that BIGG? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MrJersey, LoveforObama

    man what a difference if its real

    "once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"

    by jerseyjoew on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:43:49 PM PDT

  •  golly... (12+ / 0-)

    ...endless photographs of a woman's body, looking for telltale bumps!  Nothing sexist about that!  Nosiree!

    What is the matter with you?

  •  I am really starting to believe that there is (19+ / 0-)

    a vast right-wing conspiracy to destroy DKos using this BS.

    McCain: Running mate Palin, Soul Mate Bush.

    by gougef on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:44:29 PM PDT

  •  This is going to be fun n/t (3+ / 1-)

    Recommended by:
    sommervr, thatvisionthing, PhantomFly
    Hidden by:
    Catte Nappe
    •  Why the fuck did you rec this? (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mattman, Gray, daulton, mamamarti

      Take it off now.

      John McCain is scum.

      by jkennerl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:45:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Recommenders will probably be banned (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        mattman, AntKat, mamamarti

        Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

        by ROGNM on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:46:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Personally (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Power, mamamarti

          I wouldn't take someone who thinks that he can copyright his comments on someone elses blog too seriously. Of course if you can support your statement I will retract and apologize.

          I will say that I think this diary is unwise though.

          •  All my comments ae copyrighted. (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            joynow, Wendy Slammo

            Thats my tag line.

            Goes back to when AT&T was sniffing around.

            Now they can't use my comments without my permission.

            P.S. I'm not a lawyer, and as such, don't use my above explanation in a court of law.

            Anyhow.....

            Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

            by ROGNM on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:02:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Serious? (0+ / 0-)

              I'm still stuck on FISA and illegal wiretapping.  Can't remember who wrote the diary now, but it was very good and it said the 4th amendment was already dead because the Patriot Act made unwarranted wiretap evidence admissible in court, which was new.  Does your copyright give you protections that way?  Does the Constitution have collateral arteries after FISA heart attack?  Oh, tell me the Constitution may still live.

              •  somewhat tongue in cheek. (0+ / 0-)

                But hey; if the Corporate Media wants to use a comment of mine to disparrage me, maybe the attorneys will point out the copyright notice, eh?

                Fair use probably blows that away anyhow; I'm just drawing a cross in the sand,

                Or something.

                P.S. Don't confuse Disertation from Conversation.

                Cheers.

                ROGNM

                Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

                by ROGNM on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 10:34:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Cheers back at ya (0+ / 0-)

                  though I'm too dense to get the P.S.  :=\

                  •  Clarification (0+ / 0-)

                    most comments on dkos (and other blogs and in casual conversation) are just off the cuff remarks not intended to be intensely researched and referenced works of art.

                    One would go mad having to explain everything; oops, looks like I'm progressing downward on an incline to wet.

                    Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

                    by ROGNM on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 12:35:55 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I thought of that (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      ROGNM

                      But diaries are for unique scholarship and go by fast unless you're somebody, which I'm not, and Granny Doc got fed up with less-than-worthy diaries yesterday.  And Palin diaries are especially endangered.  We are on notice, I am aware.  And I'm fed up myself with the negative stfu "conversation" and smiting here.  Fair Reason, wherefore art thou?  Ah, it is what it is, I yam what I yam.  Thanks for being nice.

          •  P.S., remember the July 7th London bombings (0+ / 0-)

            and those ct diaries; kos banned any one recommending at least one of those diaries.  He allowed some back in if they contacted him and plead their case.

            Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

            by ROGNM on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:04:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Here's my question, how do you divine the divine? (0+ / 0-)

              How do you get the word from Kos admin?  Elsewhere someone gave a link to georgia10's edict from yesterday, but it was buried in a thread over 1600 comments long and I never saw it, even though I spent a lot of time on that thread.  And I wouldn't know georgia10 from adam1.  I can't even search (or print) Kos pages -- can anybody?  When someone gets banned, is there some public notice that goes out?

              •  institutional memory (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                thatvisionthing

                I've been reading and commenting on daily kos a month after he started on May 26, 2002.

                kos has matured (he's worked his way up to the big time, independently of a sponsor or mentor), but I'm not part of the inner sanctum and he certainly is closed mouth regarding the operating of the site.

                Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

                by ROGNM on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 10:43:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  seems to be alot of (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          PhantomFly

          them...  

          Mrs. Teasdale: I held him in my arms and kissed him. Rufus T. Firefly: Oh, I see, then it was murder!

          by ratador on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:30:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  KISS MY ASS (2+ / 1-)

        Recommended by:
        Oy the Billybumbler, The Dead Man
        Hidden by:
        jkennerl

        Do you want to win this election or have another Kerry campaign? Your choice.

      •  I rec'd the comment to weigh against the HR (0+ / 0-)

        and I rec'd the diary because you reminded me, thanks, and because I fucking hate bully police state censors.

        I think you and all the other self-important censors are dangerous and deluded and just plain sorry-ass crazy.  I wrote a comment earlier explaining why:

        How many mothers, faced with a teenage daughter's inconvenient pregnancy, formulate or participate in a coverup that is apparently supposed to go on forever?  How many mothers condemn their daughters and their babies that way?  Because that's protection for a fleeting moment at best, condemnation for a lifetime at worst.  A shame too horrible to ever confess or escape.  A baby removed.  And a bit unusual, wouldn't you say?  It shocks my conscience.  Is this about the mother's ambition, the family's religion, what, what, what's more important and better than the truth?  Now everyone has questions.  But, again, we are all to become complicit codependents and not ask, not know, just accept the cloud always hanging there but never say we see it.

        And what if it's not true?  The photo evidence looks pretty convincing, and a lot of people are talking and making their best guesses, but there's room for doubt.  Again, we shouldn't find out, even though she made a public announcement it's not our business, we have no right to fact check or reality check or judgment check the maybe strange and crazy mother who could be one cancerous McThuselah heartbeat away from the Presidency of the United States of America...with our vote.

        And the baby.  Since we magically accept Sarah's motherhood, we magically accept as well that our demands on Sarah as a vice president will leave room for her to care for this special needs Down's baby as well.  And we'll vote that magical mother into a position where she can decide for all women whether they should carry their Down fetuses to term, and whether there will be supports in place to help families meet their Down children's needs, and what family planning services should exist.  And the magical mother will feel rewarded and validated for her magical decisions and so go forward.  It's what we want.  It's her right.  And her duty.

        Do we all have our scripts now?  Do we all know what we're supposed to see and say?  Tell me again what the empress's new clothes look like in those photos and videos?  Uh huh, uh huh, dark maternity pants...thanks, got it.

        That's CRAZY.

        Do you have anything useful to contribute to this discussion?  Can you refute the evidence presented, show an error in logic, anything?  Pony up.  Otherwise you've got an AK-47 and you're spraying the messenger and every possible recipient.  You have no right.

        MHO.

    •  This isn't "fun" (7+ / 0-)

      It isn't high school gossip fests and "mean girls". We have a nation at risk, and a future at risk. We have serious business to attend to, and plenty of serious subjects to address regarding both McCain and Palin's shortcomings in potentially becoming leader's of the free world.

      HR'd because 1) you think this is going to be "tee hee, titter twitter, giggle giggle" effing FUN, and 2) rec'd this POS umpteenth diary on this misogynistic, anti-progressive embarassment.

  •    (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, willb48, mamamarti

    John McCain is scum.

    by jkennerl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:44:32 PM PDT

  •  I know when I get pregnant, (7+ / 0-)

    I swell up 40-50 pounds in the first week.  Obviously, she's lying.

  •  how are you getting these pictures ?? (0+ / 0-)

  •  Agent Provocateur...Sure As Hell. (5+ / 0-)

  •  Stop this BS---herre she is, pregnant (7+ / 0-)

    John McCain: Healthcare for kids? Not in the Bush-McCain America.

    by bosdcla14 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:45:04 PM PDT

  •  I'm surprised Andrew Sullivan is covering this (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sxp151, dnn, elwior, mamamarti

    But as one of his readers notes, I do think this will create sympathy for the family. However, I am starting to wonder if this does clash with the fact that Palin does believe in abstinence only education. If this is true, perhaps it does show the folly in such a position.

    Nevertheless, I fear this could backfire big time.

  •  Some's got their troll on today. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, pgm 01, willb48, mamamarti

    The press thinks being fair and balanced means if a comment is made about the pleasant smell of roses, not forgetting to talk up the smell of shit.

    by Dungeon Dwelling Dragon on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:45:16 PM PDT

  •  This is trash. (15+ / 0-)

    Your insistence on it makes you a trash monger.

    Take this shit the fuck down.

    Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the world's grief...You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.

    by Albatross on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:45:18 PM PDT

  •  Chicken Marsala (15+ / 0-)

    4 servings

    4 6-oz boneless and skinless chicken breast halves, cut crosswise on the bias into two or three equal pieces
    Salt
    Black pepper
    All-purpose flour
    3 T extra virgin olive oil
    8 T unsalted butter
    2 T finely chopped shallots
    3 Cups thinly slices trimmed mushrooms such as shiitake, porcini or white
    1/2 cup dry Marsala wine
    1 Cup chicken stock or canned reduced sodium chicken broth
    2 T chopped fresh Italian parsley

    Place the chicken pieces, two at a time, between two pieces of plastic wrap and pound them with the smooth side of a meat mallet to a thickness of about 1/4 inch.

    Season both sides of the scallopine lightly with salt and pepper. Dredge the scallopine in flour to coat both sides lightly and tap off any excess flour.

    Heat the olive oil and 2 tablespoons of the butter in a large, heavy skillet over medium heat until the butter is foaming. Add as many of the scallopine as fit without touching and cook until golden brown on the underside, about 3 minutes. Flip and cook until the second side is lightly browned, about 2 minutes. Remove from the pan and repeat with the remaining scallopine, adding more oil to the pan if necessary. Remove all scallopine from the pan when browned and drain on paper towels.

    Drain fat from the pan and return the pan to the heat. Add 2 tablespoons of the remaining butter, and when it is melted, stir in the shallots. Cook, stirring until wilted, about 3 minutes. Scatter the mushrooms in the pan, season them lightly with salt and pepper, and cook until they are lightly browned, about 4 minutes. If the mushrooms begin to give off liquid, you’ll have to wait for that to evaporate before the  mushrooms begin to brown.

    Pour in the Marsala, bring it to a boil and cook until the Marsala is slightly syrupy, about 3 minutes.

    Add the remaining 4 tablespoons of butter and pour in 1 cup of chicken stock. Bring to a vigorous boil and season lightly with salt and pepper. Boil until reduced by half, then return the scallopine to the pan tucking them into the sauce. Cook, turning the scallopine in the sauce until they are heated through and the sauce is lightly thickened. If necessary, add a small amount of chicken stock to make enough sauce to coat the scallopine generously (I always have to add more stock). Swirl in parsley and serve.

    McCain/Palin: A Bridge to Nowhere

    by Flyswatterbanjo on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:45:36 PM PDT

  •  Get her on the issues (11+ / 0-)

    This controversy is the very definition of high risk/low reward.  If we're wrong, we look bad.  If we're right it means little.  There are so many issues to get her on; focus on those.

    •  and JSM on selecting an unqualified nominee nt (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Miss Blue, mamamarti

      "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

      by IamTheJudge on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:58:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If we listen with open minds and reserve (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Diesel Kitty

      judgment, we look just fine. And "if we're (the diarist) is right," I disagree on it meaning little, as it puts a great big lie to her candidacy, and to her positions on sex education and Women's reproductive Rights.

      McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

      by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:57:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  To be fair: (0+ / 0-)

        The McCain camp made this story an issue, and even georgia10 said that it was not possible to stop all speculation about this sort of an issue, especially since so many people are running with this issue. But what we need to do is avoid the kind of tone that this diarist is setting, where he is starting with a conclusion, when in fact, all he has is personal conjecture.

    •  Worse. It's win-win for her. (0+ / 0-)

      If its true, she's a loving mother taking the fall for her kid.

      This reeks of Rove. The diariest is a newbie with one "real" diary, and this garbage twice.

      And it's distraction from her REAL nut-cakery, like her church's ties to Dominionism.

  •  If it's true, it's true (8+ / 0-)

    and others with, ahem, a bit more credibility will verify the facts.  You don't need to pimp this any more, especially not here.  

    No day but today--Obama '08

    by someotherguy86 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:45:52 PM PDT

  •  Are you sure you haven't mistaken this site (6+ / 0-)

    for the National Enquirer?

  •  Boy, McShame... (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, Miss Blue, Yomberto, LoveforObama

    ...sure knows how to pick 'em!

  •  This is a non-starter (5+ / 0-)

    I Palin did "take the baby bullet" for her daughter, it is what a loving mother might do. I don't even see much hypocrisy.

    Let's not make her a victim.

    •  This is not about been a victim. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      elwior

      If true it's about a lie being carried out by a would be could be VP. Are people nuts, would you want a liar as VP? We already had Cheney. Enough!  

    •  Not that it matters but I think most mothers (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Diesel Kitty

      especially in a position of public responsibility would say "We adopted this wonderful baby", not "I am 7 months pregnant, surprise". That would have avoided that part that good mothers wouldn't do...flying on a plane (and for a long flight) after her water broke and she was having some contractions.

      I'm not sure which reflects more poorly...if she is lying or if she is telling the truth and took that flight. The latter I think.

  •  I'm enjoying pot brownies to day (12+ / 0-)

    I don't come up with crap like this.....

    The lady's a timebomb - just be patient.

  •  Andrew Sullivan, (12+ / 0-)

    who is generally not too given to wild gossip, has picked up this story and is pushing it.

    I'm uncomfortable pointing this out, especially since I've been pushing against wild sensationalism all day here on dailykos, but there it is.

    •  I noticed that (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mattman, Glic

      go to Mudflats

      and scroll down the comments to the one by Sue Williams 12:31:50 to see what he is hinting at.  I'm too embarrassed to say more...

      •  Ergh. (0+ / 0-)

        If only this place wasn't my favorite news source, I'd take a few days off so I don't have to see this go down.

        Guys, WWBOD?  He would NOT do this.

      •  More spin (0+ / 0-)

        Nice try. Truly a masterpiece of Republican spin.

        The truth is different. Sarah Palin and her crowd want people to think that a 44-year-old woman pregnant with her fifth child fly to a business conference during her 8th month of pregnancy. While there, her water breaks, and she wouldn’t rush to the hospital. Instead, she would stay and make a half-hour speech.

        Then she would to to the Dallas airport and board a series of commercial flights, including a layover in Seattle, lasting more than 9 hours. Once in Anchorage, this high-risk mother would bypass the superior Anchorage hospitals and head to some small-town community hospital in the back country and deliver a 6 lb., 2 oz. baby one month premature.

        Sorry, but that one does NOT (pardon the pun) hold water. On its face, it is impossible. What actually happened is that Sarah Palin’s daughter, Bristol, was pregnant. By whom we don’t know, but boy would we ever like to. The father’s identity was the real embarrassment here, so Gov. Palin covered for her daughter by declaring herself pregnant.

        Problem is, she wasn’t a good enough actress. Her body didn’t look pregnant in most of her photos, and story of the baby’s birth is preposterous. Along comes Sue Williams to concoct some alternative story that makes even less sense; once disproven by showing that Bristol Palin is not currently pregnant, the whole "controversy" would blow away.

        But in the actual course of events, Bristol Palin gave birth in April to a baby that Sarah Palin claims is hers. Neither of them could currently be pregnant. Nice try at a diversion, Sue. I hope whoever paid you to make that posting paid you enough.

    •  Sullivan (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mattman, mamamarti

      He is known to lean conservative and has praised McCain in the past. Let him run with it if he wants to. That people cannot see how destructive this kind of stuff is to this site makes me wonder if these diarists are right wing trolls trying to make trouble here.

      What if Palin releases medical records and her daughters high school records in response to this gossip that back up her story? Do we really want to compete with No Quarter for who can be obsessed with the most wack job crap?

    •  Sullivan asks a great question: (6+ / 0-)

      We were told Gov. Palin's son was born on April 18, 2008, after Palin checked into Mat-Su regional in Wasilla, Alaska.

      But there's no record of Palin's son, Trig, birth at that hospital.  Hmmm.........
      http://www.matsuregional.com/nursery/show_day.php?month=04&year=2008&day=18

    •  Sullivan also took "The Bell Curve" seriously (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      daulton

      so I think his interest in it probably discredits the story even more.

  •  baby is cute (5+ / 0-)

    thats all i have to say.

  •  Hey, what was that about a speech on Thursday? (22+ / 0-)

    I guess Obama gave a big speech that rallied Democrats together. I wouldn't know about that though, since we've only been talking about this crap for two days straight.

    Fortune favors the audacious. -Desiderius Erasmus

    by Kyle the Mainer on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:47:33 PM PDT

  •  Also (10+ / 0-)

    The Loch Ness Monster killed kennedy, and is possibly in cahoots with bigfoot. Let's write 17,000 diaries about it now. It doesn't make us look bad at all.

  •  Expose Palin's Pentecostal Hypocrisy (5+ / 0-)

    Let's get this front and center. We are running against people who sent out emails saying that Senator Obama was sworn in on a Koran. IT'S TIME TO GET DIRTY!
  •  I hope you have (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    joynow, Yomberto, dnn, geejay, Diesel Kitty

    your flame retardant suit on, because you are going to need it.

    I deleted my own diary on this matter due to the outcry against "tabloid" blogging on this site, and how it will impact the perception of others concerning this site.  Given that, while I've been blogging in one form or another since the days when usenet was the only real interactive community on the web, I am relatively new here, I bowed to the pressure of the flames and removed my diary.

    I am going to ask those that will flame you here, though, to answer the following question:

    Governor Palin's complete lack of qualifications have no impact at all on her ability to energize the fundamentalist base.  All that matters to them is that she is a Christian Dominionist, and she appears to them to be the embodiment of "Family Values".  Simply put, that is the one issue that matters to the voters being targeted by Palin's being on the ticket.  Is not, in that case, her familial conduct an appropriate matter of discussion?

    How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

    by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:49:48 PM PDT

    •  It has to be based on fact. (7+ / 0-)

      Not conjecture on our part. In other words, it has to be based on what we know, not what we want reality to be.

      •  Understood (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        joynow, geejay, Nature Guy, Diesel Kitty

        Which is why in the diary I deleted, I laid out three scenarios, all of which look bad for Palin.  One of those takes her at face value.  But even taking Palin at face value, her conduct during the 24 hours prior to the birth of a child is criminally negligent.

        Last January, I would have been happy with either Clinton or Obama in office.  Because, among other factors, Obama took the high road, I became a firm Obama supporter - with both my wallet and with my time.

        But now we are faced with a completely different can of worms.  Palin has zero qualifications to be the VPOTUS.  This is known by anyone with even a room temperature IQ, if they care to look at it honestly.  However, those who are excited about Palin being on the ticket straight out don't care about this fact.  What Palin does have is "Family Values" - which cannot be attacked under the rules of decency.  Yet not attacking her is tacit approval of her.  This is a Rovian tactic at its worst.

        I agree that proof need be offered.  While a neophyte poster here at DKos, I've been commenting on HuffPo for quite some time - if you want to see the temperament of my posts, my username is the same over there as it is here.  

        With this said, investigation by bloggers should not be shut down completely to avoid this Rovian trap, unless we are willing to take the risk of Palin carrying the cross while McCain carries the flag into the White House, unopposed.  It is like the POW thing - we know that being a POW is not the end all, but it is something that is very hard to attack.

        How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

        by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:05:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  oh god... (5+ / 0-)

      ..am I really going to...yes.

      Because:

      1. family values christians are a heck of a lot more nuanced than that, and it won't work.  She's a strong woman who is ambitious for her family and herself and she made the choices she needed to.  
      1. because she's a real person (albeit one who subscribes to a cruel and narrow political philosophy) and unless or until she becomes a caricature by her own hand, this kind of stuff is going to come across as complete nitpicking sexism.  Which, in fact, it is.
      1. Because she's genuinely likeable, and her appointment -- someone without power or connections in anything like the terms understood by the people who run this country -- is genuinely revolutionary.  She's a total nut and shallow as gig harbor at low tide, but you don't combat a revolutionary candidate for office by picking at them for doing something for the people they care about.  It just...doesn't work.  
      •  And if she's an audacious LIAR (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dnn

        about such, and a HYPOCRIT, what kinds of "values" are those?  The Bible has many verses about not lying that the evangelicals may well respect.

      •  In that case (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        jessical

        what avenue of attack would you propose?

        I think that her lack of experience will turn off some military voters; but those voters will see in John McCain his service, and feel that they will be better served by him than by Senator Obama.  GI bill vote nonwithstanding.

        McCain is wrapping himself in the flag and his POW status to make himself unattackable.  Similarly, it seems that Palin is shielding herself with the cross to make it impossible to attack her.

        Is this approach Rovian?  Without a doubt.  My fear, though, is that it will work for enough voters to make the difference for the Republicans.  It is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't scenarios.

        How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

        by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:53:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  well... (0+ / 0-)

          ...I think that it's really hard to say; the far far northwest is a really different gig than national politics.  I think she'll probably be really good and people will like her; but she's also about to either prove out the peter principle or become something rather scary...I mean, it's all pretty cloudy :}  I don't think it's the cross we're up against here though; it's a radical change in the generation, class and region of a potential president, as well as gender.  She's potentially way more likeable than Bush, or Huckabee.  I think our best bet is that the media will be offended at her brashness and youth and will turn her into a cartoon.  I really hope so anyway.    

    •  They'd LIKE her for this (0+ / 0-)

      Lots of extremely conservative and religious people in the South have kids who do stupid things like get pregnant while they're still in high school. This is a fairly common way to deal with it. If it's true, it HELPS her with them.

      Whether the story is true or not, it doesn't hurt her reputation in any way.

      •  Let's say it's not true (0+ / 0-)

        will these same people think she is a terrific mom for finishing a speech, hopping on an 8-hour flight, then driving 45 minutes to the hospital of her choice, all while she is leaking amniotic fluid, she ia delivering prematurely, and she knows she is delivering a special needs baby who may need medical attention as soon as it is born?

        I would much rather that the baby be hers so she can own that reckless behavior. Thankfully, the baby made it under such reckless circumstances.

        If it is true, then I think it helps her too with the fundies.  The Americans who are already disgusted with a lying administration?  Maybe not so much.

        I am an Edwards Democrat!
        I am also droogie6655321!

        by Scubaval on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:07:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Here we go again (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, AntKat, willb48, mamamarti

     title=

    Goodnight, Mr. droogie6655321, wherever you are! -5.75, -7.18

    by Rogneid on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:50:30 PM PDT

  •  Hey. . . (10+ / 1-)

    . . .moon in the house of moe, desiunion, rweba, mph2005, chiefsjen, Blicero, erix, LoveforObama, sixty senate seats -

    Why not do us all a favor and un-rec this.  Pretty please?  

    No day but today--Obama '08

    by someotherguy86 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:51:08 PM PDT

    •  Just ask people to unrec (4+ / 0-)

      nothing to be gained by listing them.

    •  You can add my name to the reccers (6+ / 0-)

      I just want to see the truth.  There are some legitimate questions about this.  If it's true it reflects horrifically on her judgment and honesty.  She accepted the VP slot, she invited the scrutiny upon herself, and I'm sorry, there are some really bizarre circumstances.

      If it's not true it shouldn't be hard to refute.  So yeah, it's salacious, but that doesn't mean everyone who asks questions is trying to slander Palin.  

      •  Give me a fucking break. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dc 20005, Gray

        How is digging out details of someone's personal private life supposed to be about seeing the truth? Is it OK to come to your house sometime and dig out details about your personal private life because I want to know the truth about what makes you click?

        •  It's not private (4+ / 0-)

          She and the Republicans have used the baby to buttress her pro-life bona fides.  Look, politicians are public figures, and it's pretty well understood that they are opening up their lives to public scrutiny.  That's just the way it works, Republican or Democrat.  

          Again, she didn't have to accept the VP slot.  If this really is true, it probably would have just been a local rumor.  She had to know what accepting the VP slot meant.  

          •  It doesn't matter. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            dc 20005

            Look, we've been one of the main voices in favor of protecting peoples' privacy. We were the ones who were against the Patriot Act. We were against FISA. We are against any kind of snooping on peoples' privacy around here; outing is a bannable offense. So, if we are going to decide that we are going to protect peoples' privacy, then it has to apply to everyone, including Sarah Palin. We can't be champions of privacy and then all of a sudden turn around and say it is not whenever it is not convenient for us. There are better ways of attacking her pro-life credentials than snooping into her personal private life.

            •  On one level (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              geejay, Diesel Kitty

              I understand what you're saying, and I'm with you on FISA and protection of personal privacy.  But at the same time, politicians are living simultaneously public and private lives, and they blur into each other significantly -- just look at Troopergate.  What started as a private matter became public when Palin took it there.  

              If this is true, Palin lied to her staff, her constituents, and many other people, and moreover, allowed the baby to be used to burnish her political biography.  Perhaps it's not as neat of a delineation as Troopergate between public and private, but I still think it's in bounds when it involves lying to the press and staff.  This isn't someone hacking her computer and reporting on what kind of porn she likes.  What we're discussing is all on the public record.

              If she didn't want the scrutiny that comes with being a candidate on a national ticket, she had a simple solution: "No thanks, Mr. McCain."  

              •  But two wrongs don't make a right. (0+ / 0-)

                Just because Palin took troopergate public and tried to smear her ex-brother in law does not give us the right to dig into peoples' personal private lives. And your contention that public figures live simultaneously public and private lives is beside the point; if we are going to adopt the protection of peoples' privacy as public policy, then it has to apply to everyone -- we can't just refuse to apply it to Palin just because it is not convenient for us. In the same way, just because we all knew that Nixon was guilty of what he did does not mean that he was not entitled to legal representation and a fair hearing just like anyone else.

                •  I don't think asking questions about it is wrong (3+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  geejay, Diesel Kitty, JRandomPoster

                  Lying to the press and public is serious business.  

                  Palin's daughter having a baby?  Private, and I'd be right alongside you telling people to lay the fuck off.  

                  Palin lying to the press about it and using to burnish her pro-life resume?  That's taking it public.  

                  People are just asking questions.  This is a free society.  The truth will come out either way.

            •  Fundamentally, I agree. However (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              geejay, Diesel Kitty

              it was Palin that has put herself up on the cross of bearing a special needs child to term.  It was Palin that has brought this child into the national spotlight, to reinforce her image as a living example of Fundamentalist Family Values -  or the New American Taliban, if you prefer.

              Should she be given a free ride on this?  As distasteful as it is, I do not think that she should.

              This is a far cry from the FISA issue (an issue that got me to open my wallet to the ACLU).  This is in fact different that Bill Clinton's white house escapades.  Palin is a single issue candidate - specifically, Family Values - the right knows that PUMA-esque voters won't go to McCain because of Palin; she holds values absolutely opposite to Clinton on pretty much all women's issues (though, she is willing to take advantage of the efforts of the equal rights movement to advance causes that are actually detrimental to said movement).  No, Palin's appeal is to the Republican base.

              Is all of this distasteful?  Yes.  I feel nothing but sadness for Palin's children, no matter what the truth of their parentage.  But it is Palin herself that opened up the right to investigation on these things.  If she wanted to run on issues, she would not have used her children as examples of how she is the living embodiment of Family Values.  She could have prevented all of this.

              I am sure that the right wing advisers were aware of all of this when they and McCain picked her.  They assumed that if they made the claim that she was pure as Alaskan snow, that no one would dare to doubt, let alone investigate; and if people did investigate, the backlash would be worse than the truth.  So damned if you do, damned if you don't.

              How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

              by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:47:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  But do two wrongs make a right? (0+ / 0-)

                In other words, if we are going to say, per the FISA and Patriot Act struggles, that we are about respecting peoples' privacy, then are we going to break that standard just because Palin did something that was not right?

                No, she should not be given a free ride; however, there are much better ways of undermining the New American Taliban than snooping into peoples' personal private lives. For instance, the failed policies of the last eight years speak for themselves, as Obama pointed out during his speech Thursday night.

                And if Palin is the kind of one-trick pony that you say she is, then that means that she will not have the kind of broad appeal that is necessary to form coalitions and win elections. That is what politics has always been about. That means that these sorts of attacks on her privacy are not only unfounded, but totally unnecessary as well.

                •  Again - (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  geejay

                  I'd point out that it was Palin that opened the door to this.

                  I'd also point out that I did not feel, after writing it, that my own attempt at a diary was substantiated adequately, and after consideration (and quite a bit of flamage) removed it.

                  What has me scared, though, is how vigorously, wholly, fully and completely the fundamentalist base seems to have embraced her.  Politico this morning reported $7 million in contributions since McCain announced his choice.

                  And I'll admit that I have been thoroughly angry for months over the various false attacks on Senator Obama, and if I am completely honest, part of me wants some payback.  (With this said, since my posting record here is terminally short, if you want to jump over to HuffPo and look at my profile under the same name, you'll see that I show nothing but respect for McCain's military record; I just don't believe that being a Vietnam POW is in and of itself justification for McCain to be CoC.  Just to make the point that I am not completely vindictive).

                  I do think she is pretty much a one trick pony, though.  And if attacking her for one trick is off limits, while at the same time this trick is revving up the Republican base, I have to ask, what are we left with?  The fundamentalist republican base is scary:  they contribute their cash, and they do get out and vote.

                  Now, I also do want to point out that I feel the energy of Obama's speech.  I have high hopes that his message of true change, his message of hope, will prevail.  But after eight years of observing how folks gobbled up Bush's spin and lies, how people have bought into the false hope of the right and its social and economic policies; of how racism still runs rampid in this nation, that Obama's message itself may not be enough.  I am looking for a way to hit back.  And perhaps this way is not worthy, but I am not seeing a clear path to a more honorable and yet still effective attack.  Truly, I hope to be proven wrong.

                  How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

                  by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:17:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Not really. (0+ / 0-)

                    There was a recommended diary up earlier today showing that the fundie base has not totally embraced her despite her right-wing social issues. They don't think that a woman should be out trying to be VP; they say that a woman's place should be in the home and not trying to run for office.

                    And if we are sick and tired of the various false attacks on Obama, then we should not engage in them ourselves. Just stick to whatever can be proven to be factual, like the Downing Street Memo, for instance. We can hang them on the facts; therefore, there is no need for us to engage in lies and innuendo like the right does. All that would do is reinforce for the Greens that we are no different than the Republicans.

                    And one thing that I have not seen mentioned is the time factor -- the reason so many people bought Bush's scaremongering hook, line, and sinker is because we were only 2 1/2 years removed from the 9/11 attacks -- the fact that we are now 6 1/2 years removed means that the fear factor is not nearly as strong now as it was back in 2004.

                    •  How do you know?? (0+ / 0-)

                      I'm sorry, but how can anyone definitively say this story is false?  Look at those two pictures at the top of the thread.  Tell me honestly that they both look like photos of pregnant women.  

                      All we have to go on is the word of the Palin family and the Palin family doctor.  The rest of the public record is extremely strange.  

                      Sure, it's a bizarre story, if true.  But I don't understand how anyone could just dismiss it without further credible evidence.  

                      •  It's bizarre. (0+ / 0-)

                        I will grant you that, and I will grant you the point that it is fair game to talk about it; Sully made the point that McCain brought this situation up and that therefore it is fair game. But at the same time, the burden of proof has to be on us to prove that Palin is lying about this situation. Palin is never going to release her records in a million years if she doesn't want to, meaning that we have to go beyond this diarist's conjecture if this is to gain any traction.

                    •  I am not so sure (0+ / 0-)

                      that the fear mongering, combined with the dream of Pax Americana isn't working.

                      Georgia is being played to show the restoration of the Russian Bear.  We have the Iran scenario.  And despite Obama's message of a smart approach to the problems in the world, and to terrorism, a lot of folks still buy into the message of using the Big Hammer (tm) to solve all of our problems.

                      Furthermore, as things get worse economically, people have a tendency to dream of greatness.  And the right wing brand of greatness is that of imperial power and might; of unquestioned righteousness.  And to my eye, a lot of folks are still eating this up.

                      Now, with this said, I do think that there are an increasing number of people who who are seeing that this path is too easy to be true; that it just isn't working.  But it is still a seductive dream, and for those who have lost hope, it is in many ways easier to believe in the false hope than to apply themselves as Obama rightly tells us to.

                      And added now to the Republican brand is their living example of Christian Righteousness to go with the entree of imperial military might.  Though I do not give this recipe credence, there are too many in America who do.

                      Again - I hope that I am just to cynical; I hope the American voters are a bit wiser after the disastrous last eight years.  It is this hope that drives me to support Obama, to contribute to his campaign even though things are financially tight for my family.  I believe whole heartedly in Obama's approach to the American Dream, to international efforts, to what needs be done to get America back on the right path (excluding his vote for FISA).

                      But again, this brings me back to how to get him in office, and how to attack this symbol of fundamentalist values that the Republicans have chosen to run with.  I'll concede that it does feel wrong and slimy to attack her in the manner that I have proponed; but as previously stated, given that I feel that she is indeed a one trick pony, I am just not seeing the alternatives.

                      How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

                      by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:29:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  She is running as the candidate (3+ / 0-)

            who believes a woman's reproductive choices are the government's business.  She wants to control my uterus, apparently.
            Photoshop aside, the whole flying-while-delivering story is somewhere between implausible and insane, and she made that part public.

            Sculpture is like farming. If you just keep at it, you can get quite a lot done. Ruth Asawa

            by BrooklynWeaver on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:14:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  it's called vetting ... (5+ / 0-)

          something the McCain campaign neglected to do, because they dumped Pawlenty at the last minute and went with Palin, knowing next to nothing about her.

          •  No, it is not vetting. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            dc 20005

            There are a lot of things that are fair game, but personal medical decisions that should be between Ms. Palin and her doctor are none of our business.

            •  And yet WOULD be part of the vetting process (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              geejay

              McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

              by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:41:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, to be fair: (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                elwior

                Sully pointed out that McCain's camp made this an issue, making this fair game. So, that would be part of the vetting process. And there is something else that is strange -- the fact that the hospital where she allegedly gave birth has no listing for this child, as another poster just pointed out. But the important thing to remember is that we can't start with conclusions like this diarist is -- we have to go where the evidence leads us, not the other way around.

                •  As I mentioned earlier, (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  geejay

                  I've reached no conclusion, just examining the facts, and I believe there MAY well be something here.

                  McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

                  by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:47:46 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Adequate Evidence (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  geejay, elwior

                  I make my living as a software developer.  I know full well the difference between proof and speculation, between gut feeling, empirical evidence and a solid, formal proof.

                  To my eye, it appears that there is adequate evidence for a working hypothesis that something is amiss.  Whether it is simply a matter of her complete and utter disregard for her special needs child at the time of birth, or something more, is still open to question in my mind.

                  But I do think that no matter how you look at this thing, there is adequate evidence to show that there is a disparity between her self proclaimed Family Values and reality.  There are just too many things that don't add up.

                  As I've said before, it is my belief that Palin was selected not so much to get the disenchanted HRC voters into the Republican tent, but rather, to help solidify the fundamentalist base.  And it appears to be working.

                  So - this diarist seems to have presented what he believes to be strong enough evidence to constitute proof.  I don't feel that the evidence yet constitutes proof - but it is nevertheless somewhat compelling.  But let's say no one wanted to say anything about the matter; let's say that the preliminary evidence was not laid out.  In that case, would it even be investigated, by anyone?

                  I know this is probably a Rovian trap, where any choice made may lead to a Republican victory.  I guess that this is one of those where I feel that the nettle needs be grasped, and the truth dragged out.  If the candidate's only credential is that she is the living embodiment of family values, as seems to be the case with Palin, then you have to look at the family.  Is it dangerous?  Of course.  Is there a choice?  I am still waiting to see one that I think is viable enough, given that the fundamentalist base of the right is happy to ignore her complete and utter lack of other credentials.

                  How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

                  by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:05:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  I think it's important because if she & McCain (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Prognosticator, elwior, JRandomPoster

          are elected, they are in a position to influence progs & policies regarding birth control & sex education, as well as the funding for those programs.  Nancy Reagan pushed that whole "just say no" crap in the 80's, only to have teen birthrates go up.  Palin openly espouses the same values & beliefs, so isn't it of value if her own unmarried teen daughter becomes pregnant & then she AND her mother go to elaborate lengths to conceal this?

          That seems important to me.

          If she was not running as VP, I don't think I'd give 2 hoots because her actions would not affect me or American citizens in any way.  Because she IS running for second highest office, and if elected she could affect me and fellow citizens, I do find it important to know the truth about this.  

          •  It still doesn't matter. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            dc 20005

            Pointing out that Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" crap was totally ineffective is a lot more effective than digging into details of peoples' personal private lives. In fact, your logic can be used to justify FISA, because if there are terrorists out there who are plotting to blow things up in the US, and they are in a position to do so, then it is our job to know by your logic. And to hell with the Constitution.

            •  Yeah but (4+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Miss Blue, dnn, eltee, JRandomPoster

              if Nancy Reagan was also smoking pot or snorting cocaine while she was pushing "just say no" wouldn't you say that was relevant?

              If you make statements about yourself in public, make claims about your beliefs, morals, and way that you would govern, then any kind of private behavior counter to that is relevant. It just is.

              Edwards' and Clinton's behaviors were not relevant, because they weren't advocating for a law against adultery.

              Palin's reproductive behavior is relevant (of any kind, including if she had an abortion in the past) because she advocates for the overturning of Roe v. Wade. In this instance, she is using the birth of a Down's syndrome baby as an example of how the morals of the U.S. should be legislated. If you are 45 and have a Down's baby, you should not be allowed to have an abortion, and Palin is the model of what every woman should be required to do by law. That is scary shit.

              If that baby is not hers, it is SO completely relevant.

              And if her daughter had a baby while in high school, while her mother believes that contraceptive education should not be funded, then that is relevant too. Because these are public policy statements made by the mother.

              I don't care if her daughter had the baby, and I don't care if Sarah decided to help her by pretending the baby was her own. That wouldn't matter. What matters is Palin's view that the U.S. should have laws against contraception and abortion.

              It all comes down to the 50-state strategy...

              by Katydid on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:25:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, I can see that. (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                dnn, Scubaval

                In other words, we have outed homophobic people who were secretly gay themselves for similar reasons. So, if she is guilty as charged, then that would be fair game for similar reasons. But we don't know that at this point -- all we have is this diarist's conjecture. In other words, we have to go beyond it. Even though the McCain camp made this an issue, making it fair game, the burden of proof is still on us to prove anything along the lines of her faking her pregnancy.

                And the best piece of evidence so far is the poster who just pointed out (documented) that there is no record of this baby having been born at the hospital where Palin claims she was born. So, I will grant you that this is bizarre. But if we start with conclusions, then we miss out on stuff that might lead us somewhere totally different.

                •  Sordid as this whole thing is (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  dnn

                  Consider all these diaries and posts more of a call for the truth, rather than established truth. There are too many unanswered questions (just as there was with Edwards.)

                  The bottom line will be a judgment on judgment. McCain's and Palin's.

                  If the baby IS hers, she's got EXTREMELY poor judgment about taking care of it (as evidenced by the horrifying air travel after water broke brag.)

                  If the baby is not hers, then why didn't she just keep that story low key and "off limits" all together? If this is the truth then it's not so much about the original lie, it's about how she allowed it to be exploited and embroidered upon with MORE gratuitious lies.

                  I expect the National Enquirer is on it and it's unfortunate that a rag like that is really our only hope for the truth coming out.

  •  Seven months pregnant--no way (9+ / 0-)

    This is the end of McCains candidacy if this proves to be true.

    "The important thing is not that we can live on hope alone, but that life is not worth living without it." --Harvey Milk

    by pollbuster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:51:16 PM PDT

  •  Deceiver, Wonkette, National Enquirer (11+ / 0-)

    Are already on this, from what I've heard. If there is truth to this, we'll know shortly.

  •  You know, the really (11+ / 0-)

    pathetic thing is that as a pro-lifer, she could get a lot of mileage out of her teenage daughter having a baby and the family stepping in to support her.  

    Sorry, but this is getting weirder by the minute.  If the woman did get on a plane, leaking water, facing an 11 hour flight, then where is her judgment?  And this was her fifth baby...and after the first or second, they do tend to come quickly....

    •  I've Been Pregnant Four Times (9+ / 0-)

      And I got bigger with each pregnancy. With my third baby, I was HUGE. In my fourth pregnancy, I started showing in my second month.

      •  But: (5+ / 0-)

        Different people have different experiences with pregnancy. So, that doesn't tell me anything.

        •  If that were all, (4+ / 0-)

          I'd say the same.  But at the very least, she showed an incredible lack of judgment.  And honestly, the more I hear...well, the stranger it gets.  

          •  But on the other hand: (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            dc 20005, Albatross

            The kinds of medical decisions that she makes are none of our business, unless, of course, it involves the misuse of public funds. That's why Spitzer and Edwards became our business. Clinton, on the other hand, was none of our business, because he did not misuse taxpayer dollars or commit other crimes.

            •  Not my business, (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              dnn, LoveforObama

              but come on...any sane person would declare this a huge lapse in judgment.  Such a lapse would be used against any other candidate in a medical matter.  

              •  We don't know that. (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                dc 20005, Obliterati

                That is between her and her doctor what she can and can't do. The problem with your whole line of reasoning is that you are starting with the conclusion that this is a lapse in judgment without knowing any of the circumstances that would trigger the doctor's professional judgment.

              •  so what? (0+ / 0-)

                There is plenty of DOCUMENTED evidence of her being a terrible mayor, questionable governor, being inexperienced and you people want to dig in the trash for the possibility of something that may or may not be?

                Yes, she has a lapse in judgment.  Everything about her demonstrates it.  I don't need to see her personal life to see that.  Any thinking person can see it.  This is just a gossip mongering.

            •  And yet . . . why was it necessary for Palin and (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Miss Blue, Prognosticator

              her husband to tell anyone about the leaking fluid in Texas, etc. ????  If it is really a private matter, then it would have been wiser for them to simply keep it that way, and announce the results of the birth.  I don't necessarily agree that they've invited this level of scrutiny, but I also find it frankly bizarre that they are so clueless that they wouldn't realize that people would think their behavior in flying back from Texas and then driving an hour from Anchorage is positively reckless and would wonder therefore if the story is even true.  

          •  it is not (0+ / 0-)

            just lack of judgment it is against airlines rules for women in last trimester to fly please fact check on that and to be eight months pregnant and flying is neglecting the survival interests of the unborn child..... and that is serious bad judgment or we could debunk her fantastic story....

            either-or-is-ok with me....

            PALIN /McCAIN '08 - put it out there on bumper stickers

            by goodacre on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:32:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But: (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              dc 20005

              Alaska Air did not have that policy, and this is a matter that is between her and her doctor anyway.

              •  please show me her (0+ / 0-)

                her travel route with all the airlines and their policies/rules about third trimester travel with URL's attached please....

                PALIN /McCAIN '08 - put it out there on bumper stickers

                by goodacre on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:35:59 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  let me help you out - - lets start with this 2006 (0+ / 0-)

                  as base line info and work our way up 2008

                  you do the 2006 -2008 part how about that

                  http://www.babycenter.com/0_airline-policies-for-pregnant-travelers_6976.bc

                  EXCERPT

                  Airline policies for pregnant travelers
                  Last updated: June 2006

                  You can fly on commercial airlines without restriction during your first and second trimesters, but during your third trimester you may run into some restrictions.

                  NOTE: This chart was last updated in June 2006.

                  Alaska Airlines — 800/426-0333
                  Domestic:
                  No restrictions International:
                  No restrictions

                  American Airlines — 800/433-7300
                  Domestic:
                  • Doctor's letter plus clearance by AA Special Assistance Coordinator required if traveling seven days before or seven days after delivery date
                  • Restrictions based on honor policy International:
                  • Doctor's letter required if traveling within 30 days of due date, signed within 48 hours of travel.
                  • Travel within ten days before or seven days after delivery date requires doctor's letter plus clearance by AA Special Assistance Coordinator  

                  Continental — 800/523-3273 (domestic) 800/231-0856 (int'l)
                  Domestic:
                  • Passengers advised to consult a physician if traveling after seventh month
                  • Doctor's letter required if traveling within seven days of due date
                  • Travel prohibited if signs of labor exist International:
                  Same restrictions apply

                  Delta Airlines — 800/221-1212
                  Domestic:
                  No restrictions International:
                  No restrictions

                  Frontier Airlines — 800/432-1359
                  Domestic:
                  • Doctor's letter required if traveling within seven days of due date, indicating due date and that travel does not pose a health risk
                  •  Restrictions based on honor policy International:
                  Same restrictions apply

                  Hawaiian Airlines — 800/367-5320
                  Domestic:
                  • Doctor's letter required if traveling within seven days of due date, signed within 72 hours of travel, indicating due date and that, based on a medical examination, travel does not pose a health risk
                  • Restrictions based on honor policy International:
                  Same restrictions apply

                  JetBlue Airways — 800/538-2583
                  Domestic:
                  •  Doctor's letter required if traveling within seven days of due date, signed within 72 hours of travel, indicating due date and that, based on a medical examination, travel does not pose a health risk
                  •  All travel must be scheduled to be completed by due date
                  • Restrictions based on honor policy International:
                  Same restrictions apply

                  Midwest Airlines — 800/452-2022
                  Domestic:
                  • No restrictions during first eight months
                  •  If traveling during ninth month and delivery expected within 14 days, doctor's letter required in triplicate, signed within 72 hours travel, indicating due date and that, based on a medical examination, travel from specified departure city to specified destination city on specified dates does not pose a health risk International:
                  There are no international flights

                  Northwest Airlines — 800/225-2525
                  Domestic:
                  • Doctor's letter required if traveling within 30 days of due date, signed within 72 hours of travel, indicating due date and that travel does not pose a health risk
                  • Travel prohibited if signs of labor exist
                  • Restrictions based on honor policy International:
                  Doctor's letter required after 36th week, signed within 72 hours of travel, indicating due date and that travel does not pose a health risk

                  Southwest Airlines — 800/435-9792
                  Domestic:
                  • No restrictions, but airline strongly recommends against flying after week 38
                  • Pregnant women may be asked not to sit in the emergency exit row International:
                  There are no international flights

                  Spirit Airlines — 800/772-7117
                  Domestic:
                  • If traveling during ninth month, doctor's letter required, signed within 72 hours of travel, indicating that, based on a medical examination, travel on specified date does not pose a health risk
                  • Restrictions based on honor policy
                  • Travel prohibited if signs of labor exist International:
                  Same restrictions apply

                  United Airlines — 800/241-6522
                  Domestic:
                  • No restrictions during first eight months
                  • If traveling during ninth month, doctor's letter required in triplicate, signed within 72 hours of travel, indicating due date and that travel doesn't pose a health risk
                  • Questioning at gate about due date possible
                  • Restrictions based on honor policy
                  International:
                  Same restrictions apply

                  US Airways — 800/428-4322
                  Domestic:
                  • Doctor's letter required if traveling within seven days of due date, signed within 72 hours of travel, indicating that travel does not pose a health risk
                  • Restrictions based on honor policy
                  International:
                  Same restrictions apply

                  PALIN /McCAIN '08 - put it out there on bumper stickers

                  by goodacre on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:43:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  leaking amniotic fluid - that is defacto (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Miss Blue

                    her delivery date so she traveled on the DAY OF HER DELIVERY

                    no question in her mind about that ...... she was in labor leaking amniotic  fluid if her labor had not progressed later that day any real doctor would have c-sectioned delivery or otherwise induced her delivery because high likely lethal risk infection sets in

                    did you know the time for infection to set in on any  skin break or tissue barrier break is twenty minutes that's it....  so don't clean a wound and try it out yourself for the practical experience  

                    PALIN /McCAIN '08 - put it out there on bumper stickers

                    by goodacre on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:57:30 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Eh, amniotic leakage is not a medical emergency. (0+ / 0-)

                      You can let it go 24 hours before you need to even think about induction, as long as you keep it clean and don't do any internal exams.

                      But you DON'T birth a premature baby on an airplane if you can help it.  There is a good chance the baby would need assistance to breathe.

                      •  standard in court roughly speaking (0+ / 0-)

                        to measure professional judgment is 'customary standard of care' so her doctor likely exceeds 'customary standard of care'

                        as I said before either-or-is-ok with me

                        Sarah Palin is pushing her fantastic story which is charade on the public are we suppose to accept her heart beat from presidency if McCain were to win

                        or

                        Sarah Palin's judgment ( and her doctor ) seem to be lacking in common sense and good judgement

                        either way .... good rebuttal for her assertion that she has skills with sound decision-making as person whose aspirations are to become V.P. of United States

                        http://www.adn.com/front/story/382864.html

                        EXCERPT

                        Palin was in Texas last week for an energy conference of the National Governors Association when she experienced signs of early labor. She wasn't due for another month.

                        Early Thursday -- she thinks it was around 4 a.m. Texas time -- she consulted with her doctor, family physician Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who is based in the Valley and has delivered lots of babies, including Piper, Palin's 7-year-old.

                        Palin said she felt fine but had leaked amniotic fluid and also felt some contractions that seemed different from the false labor she had been having for months.

                        "I said I am going to stay for the day. I have a speech I was determined to give," Palin said. She gave the luncheon keynote address for the energy conference.

                        Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, "which is not active labor," the doctor said.

                        "Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.

                        "I don't think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back," Baldwin-Johnson said.

                        So the Palins flew on Alaska Airlines from Dallas to Anchorage, stopping in Seattle and checking with the doctor along the way.

                        "I am not a glutton for pain and punishment. I would have never wanted to travel had I been fully engaged in labor," Palin said. After four kids, the governor said, she knew what labor felt like, and she wasn't in labor.

                        Still, a Sacramento, Calif., obstetrician who is active in the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said when a pregnant woman's water breaks, she should go right to the hospital because of the risk of infection. That's true even if the amniotic fluid simply leaks out, said Dr. Laurie Gregg.

                        "To us, leaking and broken, we are talking the same thing. We are talking doctor-speak," Gregg said.

                        PALIN /McCAIN '08 - put it out there on bumper stickers

                        by goodacre on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:32:37 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  It is not a medical emergency and you (0+ / 0-)

                          do not need to go straight to the hospital.  The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists is the most conservative (in the bad sense of the word) such professional body in the world.  That is why we have the developed world's highest C-section rate, by far.  

                          There is absolutely no need to get up in arms about an infection.  If the leaking continues for 24 hours, it's time to do something about it if you haven't gone into labor on your own yet.  I don't care what Dr. Gregg says, to be honest.  Dr. Gregg probably also says a women should be induced by 41 weeks; this is also absolutely lousy practice.   This is why I stick with nurse-midwives, who have far superior birth outcomes as a result of their not being bound by the the ACOG's absurd guidelines.

                •  As far as I know: (0+ / 0-)

                  As pointed out by several posters, she flew on Alaska Air, which, as your list shows, does not have policies on flying while pregnant.

            •  No, most airlines do not allow travel in the last (0+ / 0-)

              month, not the last trimester.  She was just entering into her last month, but not quite at 36 weeks yet. She would have been allowed to book the flight.

              Getting on the plane in Texas after being in labor and leaking fluid at 36 weeks is another thing altogether. That would be extraordinarily reckless behavior.  A 36 week baby is PREMATURE and would be a considerably higher risk for respiratory difficulties.  The notion of taking a high chance of delivering at 36 weeks without medical backup is simply crazy.

        •  We can see her previous pregnancy (0+ / 0-)

          in the photo above.

          Comparing Sarah to Sarah, there is no way she would be huge for one pregnancy and completely flat for another. Individuals are consistent, even if they vary a lot from one another.

          It all comes down to the 50-state strategy...

          by Katydid on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:17:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Well I've never been pregnant but (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        raf

        them Ima guy.

        Don't know what that has to do with anything.

        Just felt the urge to post it.

        It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

        by Fishgrease on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:58:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I've had seven children. (12+ / 0-)

        Six pregnancies.  With a couple, I managed to disguise it until about 16 weeks, but that was really, really pushing it.

        And it really doesn't make sense.  If this is her baby, then she is incredibly stupid.  To be having a special needs baby at the age of 44 and risk delivering on a plane?  Talk about lack of judgment.

  •  Every time we kill it... (13+ / 0-)

    ...it comes back again! It's ZombieBabyGate MXVIII: The Triginning!

  •  First off (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, AntKat, brklyngrl, mamamarti

    it is not true that a mother gains more weight with each pregnancy. With my first, I went on a peanut M & M binge and gained 89 lbs. Was back to my normal weight though 5 mos after delivery

    My second I gained 34 lbs and with my 3rd I gained 19.

    My children were 11 lbs 6 oz, 10# 5 oz and 9 lbs 2 oz in that order.

    None of the three deliveries were easier than any of the other.  My last was actually taken C-section after 37 hours of labor.

    •  And how did you show w/ the second & third (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      joynow, Miss Blue

      pregnancies?  Just gaining of weight doesn't affect how you show.  I have never seen a woman show LESS with each pregnancy, regardless of the weight gain.  It's not just the weight that starts to show, it's the size of the baby pushing against the abdominal muscles.  It takes a lot of WORK to restrengthen abdominal muscles, and definitely to get it to where it was so that you can go months without showing on a second or third pregnancy, let alone a 4th...and to be honest, Sarah does not look like she works out w/ weights & works on her abs.

  •  Diarist (8+ / 0-)

    Show me your tip jar.

    Got something for ya.

    We are all Droogie....f*ck the AP

    by crazyshirley2100 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:55:29 PM PDT

  •  My sister is (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, mamamarti

    seven months pregnant and barely showing, and she's in great health...

    "ENOUGH!" - Barack Obama

    by indiemcemopants on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:55:43 PM PDT

  •  Why are some kossacks lilly livered (28+ / 0-)

    Write a diary and refute this one if you don't like its medicine.  I say it is an absolutely appropriate topic.  This lady represents a christian taliban where women will be forced to carry children while being ashamed to have one.  If this child is hers the debunking can be easy and swift.  Release your medical records.  Allow your doctor to be interviewed.  Heck yes this is a story, and DKos aint the NY Times its a fraking blog that accepts all manner of stuff with out editorial input.  

    "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq," Sarah Palin 07/07

    by Adept2u on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:56:01 PM PDT

  •  It's a Karl Rove trap (9+ / 0-)

    Dude, you need more evidence then photos found on websites.  Do you think a doctor would be a part of a conspiracy like this?

    •  A doctor part of a ... (3+ / 0-)

      Well, yes. I've read about doctors scamming Medicare and Medicaid. I've read about doctors, well, I only know what I read in the papers. But would a doctor help her friend the Governor put a nice face on things? Sure, dern tootin.

    •  Of course it's a trap (0+ / 0-)

      Anything "Family Values" oriented is a trap.  What?  You don't support Family Values?  You hate the family, then?

      And the thing is, Christian Dominionist and Family Value oriented voters don't care about her complete lack of qualifications, except that they view her as the living example of these values.

      She can be attacked on her lack of qualifications - the fundamentalists won't care.  Some in the military might, but they'll probably vote for McCain anyway.

      And so, herein lies part of the evil genius of her selection.  It is becoming apparent that it probably doesn't matter what substantive attacks are thrown at her.  We aren't allowed to attack - or even investigate - the legitimacy of her supposed family values.  And I bet that when Biden debates her, it'll be spun as the mean old man picking on the poor Christian girl.

      How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

      by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:18:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But here's the problem: (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dc 20005, daulton

        Personal private information, like what is being posted here, is not substantive. There are plenty of vulnerabilities that she has on the issues, and her lack of experience is an issue.

        •  But in this case (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Miss Blue

          her vulnerabilities on the issues and her lack of experience just don't matter to voters who are falling in behind her.  She is there for exactly one reason, as far as I can see:  to shore up the fundamentalist base.

          Heck, I'm willing to bet that a goodly number of posters here have more knowledge about world events than Palin does.

          But it just doesn't matter.  She is energizing the right wing base; these folks know full well, for example, that she was mayor of a hamlet.

          PS:  I hope I am wrong.  I truly hope that the real issues do matter to the sort of voter that I am writing about.  But I fear that it won't, and historically, the right wing base, when energized, gets out and actually votes.

          How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

          by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:29:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  does it make me a bad person (15+ / 0-)

    that I find this diary sort of credible?

    I don't think it's germane to the election that Sarah Palin may likely be covering for her teenage daughter's pregnancy.  Nor do I think it's germane that John Edwards likely had a love child.  Or that Gov. Palin's brother-in-law was an abusive creep.  But what is germane is all the lying that went on around these disparate events.  

    As with Edwards (or Clinton, for that matter), it looks like Palin has a problem with telling the truth and she is coming dangerously close to abusing her power in order to conceal information.

    No, let's not get mixed up in ugly character assassination.  But curiosity is only natural in this situation, and it is only piqued by the perception of a cover up.

    "Uh, we have a suspect, we have a witness, but we have no victim. See if you can authorize overtime."

    by north aufzoo on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:56:11 PM PDT

    •  But you're begging the question. (9+ / 0-)

      You have it all backwards -- you're starting with the conclusion that she faked her pregnancy.

      •  Correct usage of expression (8+ / 0-)

        "begging the question" - you don't see that a lot these days!

        •  Sarah's fantastic 'story' raises the question (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Miss Blue, Mother of Zeus, Adept2u

          how is it possible or true that Sarah is Trig's  mother or is it possible that her daughter Bristol is Trig's mother instead.....

          begs the question means raising the question:
          the things we are seeing and hearing about 'Sarah's fifth child ' raises the question

          you might not think it is politically correct or you might not LIKE the question or want to see it to discussed but should we stop 'thinking' about it ....

          censoring at kos about situations that raise common sense questions... that is very disturbing

          PALIN /McCAIN '08 - put it out there on bumper stickers

          by goodacre on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:23:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You're not kidding! (0+ / 0-)

          ...just take a look at your first respondent! Oy.

          "Uh, we have a suspect, we have a witness, but we have no victim. See if you can authorize overtime."

          by north aufzoo on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:37:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  well yes and no (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        mattman, Woody, Mother of Zeus

        It never occurred to me that she had--or would ever have--faked her pregnancy before Andrew Sullivan started raising the issue.  I ignored it (as I did with his [and this site's] 'cross in the sand' investigation), and he kept running with it. After a while, I started to pay it a bit of attention, especially after seeing all the stories about how Palin has been barely vetted.  If they didn't inquire about Monhegan (sp?), they certainly didn't look into this. Palin strikes me as someone with a fairly cavalier approach both to her job and to telling the truth. Seeing this diary--while I hated the title and some of the tone--I've been convinced that there might be something up here, and it may be worth checking out.  Perhaps not here on Kos, but I'm happy to let the Nat'l Enquirer do its thing...

        "Uh, we have a suspect, we have a witness, but we have no victim. See if you can authorize overtime."

        by north aufzoo on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:05:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's believable to me (0+ / 0-)

      and I'm not one for conspiracy theories. This is something families do.

      And if it does turn out to be true, it'll be an interesting selling point for her autobiography.

      But the story doesn't help us in any way. It's like suggesting John McCain took the blame for his son crashing a car (purely hypothetical). Most people would say, "What a nice thing to do." Writing diaries about it day after day about how suspicious that car damage was would be stupid.

  •  Regardless....poor Bristol (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, sxp151, mamamarti

    Shes going to be the subject of much rumor-mongering and speculation.

    Imagine if the child is truly hers and family hushed it up for political expediency?  I'd be furious.

    However I think this is something best left up to the tabloids, theres plenty about Palin that we can go after without dragging her daughter/family into the process.

  •  Is Sarah nursing the baby? (0+ / 0-)

    "No way, no how, no McCain." Hillary Clinton

    by keeplaughing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:56:53 PM PDT

    •  She said in the People Magazine interview (0+ / 0-)

      from a day or two ago that, one of the few things she has to do differently as Governor with an infant is, you know, late at night "put down the Blackberries and pick up the breast pump."

      And the only thing about this story that makes me feel that it could be a legitimate area of inquiry would be, IF it were true that she is the child's grandmother, the fact that she could so casually continue to toss of fabrications like that.  IF.  A BIG IF.  And I generally agree that the tabloids should be the ones to dig into this, if anyone.  But I WOULD find it disturbing to think that she would say something like that if it were not true.

  •  I come in to these specific (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    daulton, mamamarti

    diaries when I need to laugh and grab a good recipe.

    Thanks!

    Bring the world together through music.

    by kml on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 04:57:14 PM PDT

  •  Take this down! (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    daulton, brklyngrl, mamamarti, DaNang65

    How many times are we going to be shown these pictures and encouraged to believe that they are evidence?

    This is Republican-style smear campaigning.  It's going to ruin Daily Kos if it doesn't stop.

  •  your writing style is straight out of Natl Enquir (5+ / 0-)

    er
    it is really annoying to read.
    And you are on a first name basis with 'Sarah'?

    physician that delivers babies

    that's called an obstetrician.

    they looked together wonderful

    ?

    Bristol Palin deserves a truthful explanation to the public from Sarah immediately.

    ?

    The revelation that had been whispered among the Alaskan legislature was explosive

    revelations don't get whispered

    etc.

  •  URGENT: Could photos of daughter be Rovian Trap? (4+ / 0-)

    Those photos of Palin daughter with the "bulge" -- couldn't they be part of a Rovian diversion TRAP!????

    remember the faked Nation Guard documents that "proved" that the truth wasn't real because of the Rovian-doctored documents fed to 60 minutes?

    Ask yourself--why would you have a professional-photographer take a family picture showing that your daughter might be pregnant if you were covering it up? Wouldn't you put her in a blouse or dress that better covered it up?

    If you were Palin--wouldn't you ask a Rove operative to help you throw off the scent of the inevitable rumors of having your daughter miss 5 months of school with mono?

    Whether the rumors are true or not, photos these days are too easily doctored and faked.

    Don't trust trails that cannot be corroborated.
    You will canonize Palin if you're not careful!

    Is she a fit mother or civil servant to return to work 3 or 4 days after reportedly giving birth? Is it endangering passengers to board a plane traveling 3000 miles after your water has broken (many hours previously)? http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=8194634

    Is her judgement good/trustworthy?
    If you do research on whether she was pregnant, make certain that it's irrefutable and NOT able to be faked before getting into the "60 minutes" trap again!

    Should someone post this possibility as a diary???

  •  IT's ALIVE (0+ / 0-)

    Rise of the paranoid, nutbag theory PART XII

  •  This is not going to go away (6+ / 0-)

    Just fasten your seat belts, folks.  This is the price you have to pay for free speech.  If Markos were Stalin this diary would have disappeared instantly.  But this is an open site.  Most people can post and we all can click and read.  I don't think self-policing is going to work in this case.

    "Reality has a well-known liberal bias." Stephen Colbert

    by Time Waits for no Woman on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:02:32 PM PDT

  •  The reason this is a story: hypocrisy (8+ / 0-)

    That is the only reason this is a 'story'.

    The Right, and especially The far Right, of which Mrs Palin is a Card Carrying Member, tout one primary message when it comes to 'Family Planning': do not have premarital sex.

    A secondary message? If you are going to have sex, even if you are married, it should be to have a baby.

    Mrs Palin is a member of feminists For Life and this is their message.

    So, what does it say about Mrs Palin that she would (IF SHE DID) obscure her daughter's sex life out of marriage? That she can't raise a child with 'moral values'? That getting your daughter to lie, and you yourself lying for her, is okay 'In the eyes of God'? That the whole 'abstinence only' crap is exactly that? All of the above?

    It is the hypocrisy of it all that has driven this story.

    I seem to remember another story which was pushed here and the diarists called all sorts of bad, bad things and mocks to no end, which turned out to be true: Edward's cheated.

    People have gone over the top, but no more so than those who have attacked them, as they attacked the Edwards diarists.

    The facts of a matter do not come to light by ignoring the questions presented, but by dragging them into the light. This story will only stop being a story when the questions are answered.

    Mrs Palin has, in her short time on the national stage, already proven herself a lier several times. This story could well be another case of the same, and yes it is important in that light.

    "The guy has no core. He likes to call his campaign the 'straight talk express.' We call it the 'forked tongue express.'" - Bob Haney (GOP)

    by DiegoUK on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:03:40 PM PDT

    •  But you have it all backwards. (0+ / 0-)

      In Edwards' case, he admitted his guilt. Palin has not admitted guilt in this matter, and her silence does not mean that she is guilty. The burden of proof has to be on us to provide proof that she faked her pregnancy, and it has to be more than the diarist's conjecture.

      •  If she has nothing to hide, don't hide: confront (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Gorestro

        That is the first rule in politics. that she is a newbie to the 'scene' doesn't exempt her.

        There are medical records. This is important.

        Why is this important? Because she is running for Vice President and will have a say which direction our country goes on issues of womens reproduction rights. She believes in 'abstinence only' and advocates the same. She also advocates personal responsibility.

        If this is true, IF it is true, she has failed on both fronts and does not deserve the second highest position in the land with one cheek on the chair of the highest position in the land.

        Regardless, she should in no way have a say in women's rights, reproduction or otherwise!

        We've had enough 'abstinence only' and need no more. Likewise, we don't need 'Creationism' in the schools!

        "The guy has no core. He likes to call his campaign the 'straight talk express.' We call it the 'forked tongue express.'" - Bob Haney (GOP)

        by DiegoUK on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:12:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But you have it all backwards. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          dc 20005

          It is not for her to prove her innocence; it is for us to prove her guilt. And conjecture does not mean guilt. If she releases them, great. If not, then it is none of our business what goes on in her personal private life.

          If you want to harp on abstinence only, then that is a shitty enough concept without having to dig into peoples' personal lives. The same goes with creationism or any other issue.

          •  The 'story' will not come to light by ignoring it (0+ / 0-)

            If this isn't true then it can be proven so, but attacking those who have questions means that it will never be proven true or not, only that people don't have the right to ask the questions.

            She will never volunteer the info which can disprove, or prove, this story if not 'pressed' to do so and diaries like this, should they get tradition media's notice, have the power to do just that.

            "The guy has no core. He likes to call his campaign the 'straight talk express.' We call it the 'forked tongue express.'" - Bob Haney (GOP)

            by DiegoUK on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:21:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, I don't give a rat's behind. (0+ / 0-)

              Because it is none of my business what anyone, John McCain and Sarah Palin, do with their personal private medical decisions any more than it is my business to know what your personal private medical decisions are.

              Let me put it this way -- prove to me right now that you are not a child rapist.

          •  There is a threshhold of proof (0+ / 0-)

            after which, as a public figure, she would need to cough up the medical records.  The diarist has not provided it, but has provided more evidence than was in the last diary.  At some point, something may come to light that requires her to put up the records to kill the story.  Only time will tell.  Do I think this is a worthwhile line of inquiry?  I just don't know.  If it were true, I would find the lying and covering up, embellishing by offering details about pumping her breasts in the middle of the night (People interview in the last day or two) disturbing.  On the other hand, it could simply have the effect of canonizing her.

            In any event, enough has come to light in the way of rumor and oddities like the TX-AK flight, going back long before anyone on DKos had ever though about her baby, that whether you or I like it or not, the digging will continue.

            Consider this.  IF it turned out to be the case that Sarah Palin had perpetrated this lie upon the public, do you think that has  any meaningful consequences for her trustworthiness as a public servant?

            I mean, if the answer is "no," then of course this is nothing more than salacious prying.

            But . . . if the answer is "yes," well, then . . . ???

        •  Sounds like a good reason to support FISA (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          dc 20005, discocarp

          After all, I have nothing to hide, so I shouldn't have to worry about being wiretapped, right?

          Do you realize that if she provides the birth certificate we look like a bunch of monsters? Does that matter to you?

          "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." WJC

          by BoiseBlue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:19:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Straw Man Coming Through, make way! (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            MrJersey

            Not at all. If she is lying, I want to know and I want to know why and I want her to match it against her rhetoric.

            Rhetoric which she is pushing on every woman and child in this country, and every country we demand abstinence only programs from before we will fund them with medical support.

            Every person in this country isn't running for Vice President, and highly probable President!

            "The guy has no core. He likes to call his campaign the 'straight talk express.' We call it the 'forked tongue express.'" - Bob Haney (GOP)

            by DiegoUK on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:25:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  BS (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              dc 20005, oncall, discocarp

              It would be matched against her rhetoric and it would line up with her ass backwards view of abortion.

              Seriously, this is a fucking smear job. You want to hand over the sympathy factor to her?

              And please, do tell: why is this your fucking business and why would it matter in her job? It wouldn't. Why don't you go wring your hands over the fact that she wants to drill the fuck out of ANWR? Why don't you wring your hands and salivate over something that matters?

              "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." WJC

              by BoiseBlue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:35:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Not look like (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            BoiseBlue

            Do you realize that if she provides the birth certificate we look like a bunch of monsters?

            And not if.

            The people pushing this are monsters.

      •  Edwards first denied it (0+ / 0-)

        and the flamed diaries were before he admitted it, very recently.

        Then, after he admitted it, there was all the outrage about how he jeopardized our party's nomination, IF he had been nominated.

        In this case, Palin has already been nominated.  We don't know if this story is true or not.  I don't know if we should be pursuing it here or not.  I can see both sides of the argument.

        I am an Edwards Democrat!
        I am also droogie6655321!

        by Scubaval on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:56:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  new (5+ / 0-)

    I, too, find this unappetizing, but...
    We've just been through this with John Edwards and were aghast at his arrogance of running for office while hiding a personal indiscretion that had no way of staying private.

    This would be such a non-issue if it were not for the lie/cover-up. The fact that Trig is a Down's child has nothing to do with this story.

    I, too, want to protect the mom and the son.
    Perhaps the Palin's should have known how the national media works, but I will forgive them for their ignorance.
    Again this points to McCain's lack of judgement/vetting. The McCain camp is guilty of utter negligence.

  •  LET ME SAY THIS (14+ / 0-)

    This diaryst posted the exact same diary yesterday , word for word , and although many wanted him/her ban for bringing the bay's story , i rejected those people.

    I strongly believe this is worth talking about and at least , investigated....If we can't do it here , i dont know where it will be done.

    Saying that , this diaryst doesnt have any new information and or any new thoughts about this story , so i reject the spamming.

    -------------

    Al together , i reject democrats who feels we should not ask Palin question about the baby's story.

    Those are the same democrats who went out of their way to defend John Edwards and attack the enquire.

    Where there is smoke , there's usually fire..

    Anyone that has personal thoughts about this baby's story , should be able to post them without being called a troll.

    You better believe if it was michelle Obama , the GOP would go after her and ask question.

    They even took the "whitey tape" into foxnews and i heard it on CNN and MSNBC.

    So this none sense that this story should be off limit , is fucking BULLSHIT!!

    •  Sounds a lot like (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dc 20005

      the Bush Adminstration's argument for torture.We need to do it, they'd do it to us, etc.
      In the America I believe in we don't do torture and we don't out teen age girl's possible pregnancy. The National Enquirer may not value decency, but the Democratic Party still does.

      Cornplanter, can you swim? Peter La Farge

      by DaNang65 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:42:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think this diary is sexist (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dc 20005

      Come on, folks. There's lots out there on her political actions and beliefs that we can attack, but this is National Enquirer lunacy.

      •  Now the National Enquirer is lunacy? (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        BlueStateLiberal, Executive Odor

        Hmmm...I seem to remember you had a quite a different perspective when the Edwards news broke.

        Ah that's right, you did have a slightly different take on the National Enquirer then.

        I personally think this gossip is tasteless bullshit too, but don't you find it a little hypocritical to cite the National Enquirer for it's journalistic acumen when they're reporting gossip about a Democratic politician, but salacious gossip about republicans is "National Enquirer lunacy"?  

        "It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion." Oscar Wilde, 1891

        by MichiganGirl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:19:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I remember my defense of the National (0+ / 0-)

          Enquirer. If you want to plow through those comments, you will note that I say that sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are very off. They have broken stories, and some are wild goose chases.

          This Palin story seems like one of their idle wild goose chase stories.

    •  Regardless of one's opinion of this, (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Gorestro, Scubaval

      it is in fact not true that the diary yesterday was the same as the one today.  The one today adds several new facts about the doctor and her relationship with Palin (although it is false to say, as the diarist did, that Palin "named her" Family Physician of the year . . . as Mayor she merely wrote a letter of commendation in support of the doctor's nomination), about the hospital not having a record of the child's birth, and some utterly irrelevant nonsense about the daughter's traffic stops.  

      •  SORRY TO DIARYST! (0+ / 0-)

        I just read the diary , so i retract what i said...

        I thought it was the same exact diary of the day before.

        After reading this one , i think it's good...There's a lot of new stuff in there.

        I  believe moreso today then yesterday , this story should be part of DailyKos discussion.

  •  Look this story to me sounds plausible. (18+ / 0-)

    And the diarists seems to know his/her stuff. I think it's time for the mainstream media to start asking questions.

    •  At the risk of being hated here (3+ / 0-)

      I find the story eminently plausible, and indeed likely.

      I am all but certain, based on the documented irregularities, that Bristol Palin is indeed the mother.

      HOWEVER, the politics of the issue are very much cloudy and I defer to most people here who consider it a bad idea for it to be discussed on Kos.

  •  Wedding/engagement ring on Bristol's finger? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Temmoku

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate!

    Link here from Andrew Sullivan's blog.

  •  This thread needs more recipes. (0+ / 0-)

    For all the possibly illegitimate babies in your life:

    Banana Baby Food

    From "Baby's First Helpings" by Chris Casson Madden ISBN: 0-385-19143-X

    This is another wonderful first food.  Remember: the riper the banana the easier on baby's digestive tract.

    Servings:  1
         
    Ingredients:
    1 To 2 tablespoons ripe banana
    A little mother's milk or formula  
         
    Mash banana thoroughly and slowly mix in the milk.
         
    As baby gets older you might want to try: milk, oatmeal, wheat germ, cooked egg yolk or yogurt mixed in with the banana.

  •  I'm not convinced... all pregnancies are not the (0+ / 0-)

    same... where was Bristol at the time of delivery...was she on the plane???

    May the Schwartz be with you! http://www.ebaumsworld.com/endofworld.html

    by FLS on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:11:45 PM PDT

    •  all hospitals have a standard of care... (0+ / 0-)

      it doesn't matter what hospital she chose to take her baby initially. It's not like she took it to a supermarket. More concrete evidence or don't post rumors. Focus on her real substantiated short comings until you have real evidence.

      May the Schwartz be with you! http://www.ebaumsworld.com/endofworld.html

      by FLS on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:15:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Palin: using the baby's disability as a talking (9+ / 0-)

    point.  That means's fair game to me to raise the issues the diarist does.  There is something, not sure what, that is amiss here. Palin's late term behavior was inconsistent with a typical mother carrying a special needs child to term.  It would be her own damn business if she weren't using the child as an audio visual device.

    "Those dunes are to the Midwest what the Grand Canyon is to Arizona and the Yosemite is to California." - Carl Sandburg

    by Critical Dune on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:12:05 PM PDT

  •  Ugh, more of the same... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dc 20005

    This is getting creepy. Did DailyKos morph into a Karl Rove how-to site while I was on vacation?

  •  dude.. i was looking at the family pics on (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    daulton

    Huff Post,the ones taken with McCain and family. The daughter is there and she has the same build as she does in your photos here. She's a chubette, that's all, and a fairly cute one. give it a rest. Ya had me goin yesterday, but it took one photo on another blog and I knew this theory was all wet. The daughter isn't a waif. Get over it.

  •  "Smite" (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    N in Seattle, willb48, Junah

    Where the hell is the "Smite" button for a diary?

    Kos?, Hunter?, ct?, anyone...Please, I beg you, in the name of all that is Holy, give me a "Smite" button.

    Sometimes the pool-pah exceeds the power of humans to comment. - Bokonon

    by Squirrel2634 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:16:20 PM PDT

  •  Sketchy (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Gray

    This diarist had one post in 2005, now all of a sudden he's got this breaking expose?  

    Smells to me.

    •  I thought of this too, but (0+ / 0-)

      I don't post a lot of diaries.  I do comment a lot, though.

      I'm wondering if the diarist is primarily a lurker but happens to have a lot of info on this topic.

      If we're going all CT here, maybe this is someone who wants to embarass the family.  Who knows?

      What gets me is all the info being scrubbed from websites as we speak.  Right now, the main site of http://www.matsuregional.com/ isn't even available.

      I am an Edwards Democrat!
      I am also droogie6655321!

      by Scubaval on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 12:09:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Here's a question: (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Gray

    Who cares?

    "Intolerance is evidence of impotence." -Aleister Crowley

    by Codejack on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:19:11 PM PDT

    •  Are you serious? If she's lying about being the (9+ / 0-)

      mother of this baby -- not only is she through as a potential VP and politician -- McCain is through as a potential president. To not vet someone who stands a 50% chance of becoming the 2nd most powerful person in the world in 2 months -- in-fucking-sane.

      So...if there's nothing to this, so be it.

      But it's just too weird.

      http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

      •  Two things: (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dc 20005
        1. Even if this is all true, the nutcases who are still listening to Faux News will vote for McCain, anyway, because they'll never hear about it. Or, if they hear about it, they'll make up a fancy rationalization about it, like "It's OK, because she didn't have an abortion."
        1. We have enough ammunition against these people without focusing on irrelevancies; frankly, I find the whole attitude abominable, but then I find many things about all of the candidates despicable, on both sides of the aisle. For example, I could note that my local U.S. Congressman is a former drug dealer, and feel safe knowing that that piece of information would be absolutely useless in indicating where I live :)

        "Intolerance is evidence of impotence." -Aleister Crowley

        by Codejack on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:44:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The larger point here is that we're this close to (5+ / 0-)

          putting a complete unknown a heartbeat away from the presidency.

          This is like a horror movie. Two months. That's how much time America has to figure out who this woman is. And if the first two days are any indication -- with the early word from her hometown newspapers, political allies and adversaries in Alaska, and even her mother-in-law, is any indication -- we've got ourselves one hell of situation.

          This whole baby story speaks to just how insane it is to have this woman so close to the presidency. Out of nowhere. At least Quayle had Senate colleagues who apparently vouched for him. She's been doing God knows what up there in Alaska -- well, at least one ongoing ethics investigation within the first 18 months of her first term as governor.

          I get chills when I type that sentence: 18 months into her first term as the governor of Alaska. Vice President of the United States. What the fuck are we doing?!

          Any and everthing needs to be on the table.

  •  This is a matter of honesty - not about the baby (9+ / 0-)

    Should a grandmother decide to raise a child or help a young single daughter to raise a child, tht is an admirable thing.

    However, it is a matter of honesty. If this is true, the Governor of Alaska has created an elaborate lie in order to protect her own reputation.

    Protecting a daughter is understandable, but it is not necessary to lie in order to do it.

    The question is whether or not she has deliberately set about to deceive the public in order to protect her own political ambitions. If so, what else has she lied about?

    There are a lot of questions here that do not make sense. I don't care how she conducts her personal life, but I do not want a VP who is capable of such an elaborate web of lies. We have had enough of deceiving the public by our politicians to gain political advantage.

    We must be very careful that we respect the baby and the daughter. They do not deserve to be hurt or suffer because of this.

    However, if Palin has lied about this - then it is she who is the source of her own family's public pain and embarrassment. What does it say about a person who would create an elaborate lie that could hurt her daughter and grandchild?

    We do not know the facts. Extreme caution must be excercised in discussing the matter. It is about the honesty and integrity of elected officials who claim to be "reformers."

    •  Strongly disagree (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dc 20005

      IF this story is true (and I doubt it, but may be wrong in the end); this is off the rails

      created an elaborate lie in order to protect her own reputation.

       Such an action is likely to be to protect the daughter's future and reputation.

      •  I disagree with that (0+ / 0-)

        Such an action is likely to be to protect the daughter's future and reputation.

        If it's true, then "everybody" already knows.

        A local girl in my kid's High School dropped out under the same circumstances. Rumors went around that she was pregnant, and she started getting chubby. She eventually dropped out of school due to some illness I can't recall, and a few weeks later was no longer chubby. Big, BIG church family, probably wracked with guilt and shame, which they passed along to their formerly pregnant daughter. Daughter didn't return to school for her senior year.

        Bottom line: she was treated like she had some of plague, was hidden away to protect the family's "honor", and was made to feel so ashamed of herself that she couldn't even graduate with her friends.

        I see nothing honorable about any of that. It literally sounds like the kinds of deceptions one would need to avoid the wrath of the Taliban.

        Do unto wingnuts before they do unto you

        by Executive Odor on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:59:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Andew Sullivan ... from the Atlantic...is on this (10+ / 0-)

    This is beyond mere conspiracy theory. Read for yourselves...

    It should be up to the McCain campaign and Palin to simply prove that it's her baby. Then it goes away.

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

  •  Edwards rumors (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dnn, 0wn, Nature Guy, DiegoUK

    Were dismissed and dismissed until we found out they were true. This may be false, we don't know. I don't think it should be splashed on the front pages at this point, but why not investigate?

  •  Well for all of you who are not comfortable (7+ / 0-)

    talking about this you should be aware that Andrew Sullivan is now blogging about it and gives a reasonable defense of why it is is not a smear campaign to mention it. He also alludes to the fact the MSM is looking at it as well.

    Obama/Biden '08 "anticipatin...celebratin"

    by polticoscott on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:24:49 PM PDT

  •  Foul. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dc 20005, Gray, Catte Nappe, DClayton

    I like saying, "we're better than this," but I think I am wrong about that.

    We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine,

    And the machine is bleeding to death.

    by Marcus Tullius on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:28:03 PM PDT

  •  Time and tide (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dnn, SmilingPolitely, Nature Guy, DiegoUK

    As VP candidate, her medical records will become public.  The truth will out then.  

    I think this does hit the Bill Clinton BJ line about privacy, but it also hits the hypocrisy line that Clinton walked over.

    The official silence is rather deafening.  Why isn't some Alaskan paper bringing out someone to slam the story on its face?

    I didn't believe that Clinton would get a BJ in the Oval office, and he did...

    I didn't believe that Edwards would have an affair while his wife is sick and would ask people to contribute to a dead campaign, and he did...

    Why should hubris be only male?

    Last point.  I teach high school kids.  It isn't hard for me to believe, at all, that a young daughter of religious parents who would frown on birth control, would have sex and get pregnant.  Especially a public  parent.

    Geraldine Ferraro had her own family problems years ago.  (Although John liked Coke not babies)

    Enjoy every sandwich-Warren

    by barr on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:28:05 PM PDT

  •  This wouldn't be an issue IF she was not running (5+ / 0-)

    as VP and IF she wasn't anti-birth control, anti-sex education, and supposedly conservative family values, etc.

    I think that if she goes to such an extent to cover up her child's pregnancy, then that would factor into many people's decisions as to whether or not she's fit to be VP.  It also begs discussion of the values that she espouses.  

    I personally do not believe that baby is Sarah's.  You don't show LESS with each pregnancy, you actually show MORE because the muscles have already been stretched out before.  Also, I have never EVER seen a woman who showed a lot in a prior pregnancy (as seen in the pregnancy w/ Track) then go on to have an invisible pregnancy w/ her 4th child???  I really don't think that's possible.  The people that you've heard of who go to term w/o any visible signs are usually young, w/o prior pregnancies, and tend to be overweight.  Sarah Palin was NONE of those when Trig was born.  

    I think it's absolutely important to bring up this issue because of Palin's position on birth control, abortion, and sex education.  If the baby is Bristol's, it would at least open up the avenues to discussion regarding the merits of Palin's anti-sex education & anti-birth control beliefs.

    •  Look. we don't know when (0+ / 0-)

      that photo in the prior pregnancy was taken.  Probably when she was 39, 40 weeks.  That is VERY different from the 6th or 7th month.   Every woman is different in terms of when and how she starts to show.  My general sense is that if that photo of her in the track suit is really, honestly, in her alleged 7th month, then this story could be true, but it is still not clear to me when these photos were taken.  This is certainly not proof at this point.

      There is much that is suggestive here, and I think there is enough smoke to suggest that she MAY not be the mother, but those photos alone are not proof.

  •  No tip jar again? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Gray, EntrWriter, daulton

    Coward.

  •  Let the games begin... (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Nedsdag, blitz boy, novaseeker, DiegoUK

    If we, in the left wing internets don't bring this stuff up NO ONE WILL.....

    To those that are running scared from O'Reilly's and the like, gimme a break, that's a done deal, and you will never please them.

    So I say,

    LET THE PALIN VETTING BEGIN!

    ONWARD WITH THE BABYGATE BROO HA HA!

    Obams/Biden 08!

  •  Is it against (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blueyedace2, discocarp

    Is it against the terms of agreement to hide rate this bastard's OTHER comments elsewhere?  The coward didn't post a frakkin' tip jar.

  •  Please Stop (5+ / 0-)

    STOP IT! This conjecture is an embarassment to KOS and all of us who participate.  This is the kind of unsubstantiated crap one would expect on a right wing site.  There is so much wrong with McCain and his agenda, we do not need to stoop to this type of immoral gossip.  I want Obama to win and those of us who support him do not want to be drug down by this type of unproven, irrelevant assertations.  STOP IT!

  •  Mirror, Mirror (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dc 20005, Catte Nappe, forester, discocarp

    This whole topic is acting like a giant mirror. Look at us, what do you see? Not pretty.

    Sexism
    Misogny
    Paranoia
    Anger

  •  You're just going to get flamed (9+ / 0-)

    Don't bother. The story is out now, a lot of people know about it in the Blogosphere to the point where no doubt those who want to find dirt will start digging.

    The job is done so just let the subhuman media take over, find the proof (shouldn't be hard), and then the mainstream media will pick up on it. No point here; you have the camp that already believes and the camp that wants to put their hands over their ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA, I'm not listening!"

    I think it's relevant, I think it's likely, I think it's a fair topic of conversation about Palin for many reasons. I think it's ridiculous when some dems adopt this "holier than thou" attitude and "let's stay above the fray" and let republicans walk all over us and then complain when they win. If there was no evidence, I'd call it rumor mongering but there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that demands evaluation.

    Negative works. Why do you think McCain jumped in the polls so much? Fight back. Stop saying this or that is off limits. I was so annoyed when Wes Clark was jumped on for speaking the truth: Being a war hero isn't a qualification for president. Stop distancing ourselves from the truth because we're afraid of what the conservatives might say about us. They're going to talk crap about us anyway, whether we're "good" or "bad."

    There are a lot of inconsistencies and issues with this story that move it beyond simple gossip and sleaze. There are REASONS why it matters--reasons Palin and the republicans have MADE it matter.

    If it's true, it's to the point where it WILL come out, so just let it go while you're at KOS.

    •  Crazy Town (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dc 20005, Nedsdag

      This isn't "negative". This is just stupid. No one has produced a shred of evidence that  she didn;t have this baby. People just keeping posting the same crap until the weak minded finally "believe".

      As revolting as all of this is, it is also quite fascinating to watch people being brain washed right before my eyes.

      It takes only seconds to use Google to find numerous photos of Palin obviously pregnant at public fundtions, and yet pudding brained nincompoops are starting to believe!

      Wonder how many other of our myths started this way?

  •  Andrew Sullivan gets to the Brass Tacks of it: (18+ / 0-)

    The campaign has made the entire story of this pregnancy and birth a part of its narrative to portray Palin as a morally superior being who is therefore deserving of the second-highest office in the land.  

    There is a serious possibility that this narrative is completely false, that, in fact, Palin's daughter became pregnant, and that she decided to take the following steps:  first, hide the pregnancy by withdrawing her daughter from school; and second, pretend that the child was hers, in the process lying to everyone around her, including the public and her staff.  If she did this, one must then ask, why? Certainly, it was preferable to an abortion.  But why couldn't she simply admit that her daughter got pregnant at sixteen?  Palin could have served as a wonderful role model of family support for a pregnant teen, and obviously she would have helped to raise the child.  Instead, Palin sent a message that her daughter was shameful, and that lying is better than the truth.

    Even if one could excuse this behavior as a misguided effort to protect her family, what happened next is beyond the pale. Knowing full well the truth, Palin allowed the false version of this story to be used as part of a PR campaign to dupe voters into viewing her in a completely false light.

    What this says about her is that she believes that when you get into a situation where there might be public embarrassment, the best thing to do is lie (apparently, the same thing she did with Troopergate). That, to me, seems relevant to voters making a decision in November.

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/


    These ARE questions worth knowing. We DO have a right to ask and get answers.

    Too much is at stake to ignore it.

    "The guy has no core. He likes to call his campaign the 'straight talk express.' We call it the 'forked tongue express.'" - Bob Haney (GOP)

    by DiegoUK on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:40:28 PM PDT

  •  POS (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blueyedace2, discocarp, bad dad

    Delete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  •  Now What (0+ / 0-)

    Now that we know she clearly did not give birth, we must move on to the next issue.  What was really inside her!!!

    http://community.adn.com/node/118874

    A Karl Rove clone......? Oh My god........

  •  The REAL Scandal is being completely overlooked. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mother of Zeus

    I can understand giving one kid a wierd name, maybe two -- but five? WTF? You've got "Sarah" and "Todd" who supposedly love their children naming them "Track" (Like, skidmark?) "Bristol" (a type of paper, right?) "Willow" (meh, but still) "Piper" and "Trig"...what is Trig short for, Trigger or Trigonometry? Either way it's a cruel joke to play on a kid who's got enough problems...and why give him four names anyway, I can barely keep track of two and a middle initial. And what's with the "Van" Palin, sounds too much like "Van Halen" -- these FACTS bring up serious judgement issues, and to quote a dear friend of mine, "I don't want to hear SHIT about us black women giving our kids funny names any more!!!!"

    I rest my case.

    --------
    McCrusty: "You kids get off a my lawns!!!!!!!"

    by PBJ Diddy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:50:02 PM PDT

  •  I still do not see any conclusive proof (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Shockwave, Miss Blue, Sybil Liberty

    but if it is untrue than the Mccain camp can put the Kabosh on it quickly.  If Barack has to produce a birth certificate and nobody is standing by  the Edwards' when John is still being pressured into taking a paternity test why should we all of a sudden fret about the Palin family?  Trust me it hurts Sasha and Michelle just as much as it hurts the Palin family when their parents are smeared.  This is politics.  If its true and it comes out now, it is not a big deal.  They will survive.

    Remember John Mccain had no problems degrading a beautiful teenage girl (Chelsea Clinton) just because her mother was a poltical opponent.

  •  Expressing support (8+ / 0-)

    I appreciate the hard work and research that goes into the two diaries by ArcXIX. I find the material interesting, and the evidence is presented in a responsible way.

    The evidence as presented seems compelling to me. It would be easy to refute if it is inaccurate.

    I don't think the underlying story reflects poorly on anyone in the Palin family. I don't find that these diaries are criticizing or slandering Bristol or Sarah. They are presenting evidence. I do think it would be a terrible disservice to lie about a child's parentage -- as it would be in the case of John Edwards.

    Sarah Palin advocates abstinence only sex education. It seems politically relevant that she should not be allowed to lie about the consequence and outcomes of that approach.

    My perception is that Daily Kos is a proper venue for presenting this kind of evidence.

    I appreciate that people find this vulgar and demeaning. They think it is not an important argument one way or another. THey think that this involves attacking someone's child. I don't see these diaries as attacking Bristol. They seem more to me to be attacking lies that are pernicious.  

    From an abomination to an Obama Nation

    by copithorne on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 05:51:57 PM PDT

    •  My only disagreement with you is that (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      bad dad

      in fact the diarist does not really present the material responsibly at all.  It reads like a tabloid, assuming that Bristol is the mother when in fact there is nothing like the kind of proof presented which supports that assumption.  Enough is presented to make one think further investigation could be warranted, but that is all.  I would also point out that some assertions about the family physician are false.  Also, I have no idea why the repetition that things have been "scrubbed" without any evidence that information hasn't simply been updated or moved for perfected innocent reasons.  Finally, I fail to see what the daughter's traffic stops have to do with anything.  Moreover, if she were pulling into a Family Medical Center, that would be quite consistent with someone who is being monitored for a prolonged bout of mono.

      The case would seem stronger without all that irrelevant horse crap in there, frankly.

  •  This DailyKos diary (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Yomberto, Nedsdag, Nature Guy

    Contends that the McCain campaign has just TODAY sent an 8 man team north to Alaska to vet the person this man has already proclaimed ready to run the free world.  Could she be not so honest about this issue.  Well now we wont know if we don't ask will we.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/31/204026/297/98/581620

    "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq," Sarah Palin 07/07

    by Adept2u on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:00:55 PM PDT

    •  Well, I agree that she should have been. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dc 20005

      And there have already been some things that have come out, like the fact that she was a disaster as the mayor of her town, and the fact that she vindictively tried to fire the state trooper, and the fact that she was praiseworthy of Obama's energy plan. But we have to stick to the issues.

  •  Baby Gate thoughts... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Nedsdag, blitz boy, LoveforObama

    To all those that want to stay above the frey, and not stoop down into the trenches to research this story...

    Um....ever heard of 2000 or 2004, and Al Gore, or John Kerry?

    I for one, will be more than willing to publically apologize to the Palin family if this is PROVEN UNTRUE.

    Till then...

    WE FIGHT ONWARD!

    BABYGATE 2008!!!

  •  I still am trying to understand (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Nedsdag

    why a mother would fly on an airplane to Texas when she was 8 months along?  Once your water breaks, pain sets in and it is x number of hours before the baby arrives (especially when this is your 5th baby).

    Something else that bothers me is she returned to work after 3 days.  She must have been filled with grief knowing her son has  Down's Syndrome, so maybe work is a way to cope, but this seems really strange to me.  I don't know.  I kind of feel sorry for her and wish she could be with her family not campaigning with McCain.

  •  No One Knows Who the Hell this Woman Is!!!! (16+ / 0-)

    We have two months to figure out who she is before she stands a 50/50 chance of becoming the 2nd most powerful person on the planet -- with a greater than even chance of sliding into the most powerful slot held by a 72 year old two-time cancer survivor.

    Holy shit, people. This is like a horror movie. The fact that John McCain has put the country in this position -- thrust this woman from Alaska -- only 18 months into her first term as governor (with one Ethics investigation already underway)-- is terrifying.

    Two months. Vice President Palin. President Sarah Palin.

    No vetting. No primaries, caucuses, multiple candidate forums and debates, 12-18 months of intense press scrutiny. Nothing.
    One meeting with John McCain and a single debate with Joe Biden. Then one election.

    Two months. A complete stranger in the West Wing. This is actually very scary. And all we have to rely on is the traditional media and Team Obama to make the case between now and Election Day.

    So I say -- have at it. Dig up any and everything. McCain put us in this position -- thrusting a complete stranger on us. Vet this woman and her family and her past and her lies and her personal life. All of it.

    •  You hit the nail on the head! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Nedsdag

      And I wish I could give you more than one rec.

      LET THE VETTING BEGIN!

      BABYGATE 2008!

    •  Stop freaking out. (0+ / 0-)

      The whole problem is that you freak out over things that are nothing. We have to stick to our principles -- we have established over the last few years that respect for peoples' privacy is something we stand for. We have to do so here, even when it is not totally convenient for us to. Otherwise, what the hell are we doing opposing the Patriot Act or FISA?

      •  I just see... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Nedsdag, DiegoUK

        This election slipping between our fingers, just like 2000, just like 2008...

        If there is any TRUTH to this stuff, it needs to be found out.

        There are just WAY to many issues, concerning womens rights, the environment, and so many issues at stake.

        LET THE PALIN VETTING BEGIN!

        BABYGATE 2008!

      •  They made the baby an issue. (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        joemcginnissjr, Nedsdag, DiegoUK

        Plus who cares who had the baby, but I do care if she lied.

        •  Well, it's true that they did. (0+ / 0-)

          In other words, we should respect peoples' privacy; however, if they make it an issue, then it becomes fair game. But we don't know that Palin lied about her situation or that she faked her pregnancy. It is simply too premature to conclude that she did. This diary is sheer conjecture.

      •  Not the same (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        joemcginnissjr, SmilingPolitely

        A private citizen being wiretapped is completely different from someone running for political office.  You have a much smaller expectation of privacy when you are running for Vice President of the United States.  

        Normally issues relating to children and the like would of course be off limits, and that would be the case here as well if the GOP had not made the baby a political statement about Palin and their ticket.  It's a legitimate political question at this stage.  There's no need to jump to conclusions, but at the same time there also isn't a need to preemptively silence those who are calling for this and related issues to be vetted.

        •  Privacy (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          SmilingPolitely

          I agree.  It is not an invasion of someone's privacy to analyze photos that that person (or her parent, or her political campaign) posted (or allowed to be posted) on public websites.  If you publish something on the internet, or pose for a photo op, you have no business complaining because other people look at the photo and analyze it.  So unless ARCXIX has been sneaking around in the Palins' backyard taking these photos herself, then all he/she is doing is analyzing publicly available data about a political candidate, in order to show that that candidate is very probably lying about something that the candidate herself has made a political issue.  That isn't an improper intrusion on anybody's privacy.  The repeated claims from Eternal Hope that we have to have "proof" before we can talk about this is nonsense.  The diarist has made a strong prima facie case -- it is up to the politician involved to refute it if she can.  

          "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right" -- Sen. (and Major General) Carl Schurz, 1872

          by Diesel Kitty on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:29:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly and (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      joemcginnissjr

      thanks to the Republicans using Gustav to avoid having their convention, we won't hear her speak there.

      Likewise, she has thus far been completely shielded from the press.  I would not be shocked to see the entire election season pass without her being questioned ONCE by a non-Fox reporter.

      We will end up in November, with the only stuff known about her is whatever bloggers and media manage to dig up on their own.

  •  If it's false, it oughta be pretty easy for... (5+ / 0-)

    ...the McCain-Palin campaign to refute it.  If it ain't true, refute it.  Make the left look like idiots.

    As for me, whether it's true or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is that this VP pick was John McCain's chance to show the world his decision-making skills, and this Governor is who he picked?  This must be the most painfully god-awful decision by a politician in my fucking lifetime.  McCain now deserves to get blown-out in this election.

    What would Lincoln do?

    by stevedubya on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:10:32 PM PDT

  •  THIS WILL DESTROY US, NOT HER!!!! (6+ / 0-)

    When Sarah holds a teary press-conference to confirm the story (AS PLANNED) and the media follows the Republicans lead as they FEIGN HOWLS of outrage over the "liberal media invading the privacy of a fragile young girl".

    None of Sarah's lies or hubris or anything else in this matter will get a mention.

    The mother hens in both parties and in population at large will rally to Saint Sarah Supermom.

    Check-Mate, Democracy and America Dies!

    •  Uhm...except this is a pro-lifer (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      blitz boy

      who believes in abstinence-only sex education.

      I'd say it'd be a pretty big black mark on their The Movement. It pretty says "abstinence doesn't work."

      In either case I don't want a woman like Palin making decisions about what me and my daughters can or can't do with their bodies.

  •  ... (4+ / 0-)

     title=
     title=
    post a tip jar, or...
     title=

    The lesson of that history is that you must not despair, that if you are right, and you persist, things will change. -Howard Zinn

    by blueyedace2 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:20:33 PM PDT

  •  IF ... Then (7+ / 1-)

    Recommended by:
    joynow, Miss Blue, desiunion, Nedsdag, elwior, Nature Guy, raf
    Hidden by:
    yuriwho

    I am not a big conspiracy nut, but I am a father.  If that picture of Palin pregnant with her first child is real, and IF the picture of palin talking with the woman (her mother in law) is also real and at 7 months pregnant, then I am concerned about this story.

    The missing daughter for eight months, the obviously not very pregnant Palin, the incredibly dangerous and thoughtless (to the unborn) flight from Alaska to Texas -- and back!!! and the drive to a remote hospital?  The back to work in three days looking identical to before the pregnancy.

    Add to this Sarah Palin's obvious drive to become a Dominionist political star....

    AND  IIIFFFF the child is her daughter's, then has anyone considered the possibility that the child is not a Down syndrome baby, just fathered by a non-anglo?  

    If this ends up being true (and I am far from convinced, just curious) it would be the saddest story I ever heard.

    Save your tears for the living

    by immanentize on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:22:24 PM PDT

    •  Face it, the bottom line (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      novaseeker

      With Babygate, is damned if we do, damned if we don't.

      Karl Rove, your a fucking genious.

      Shit.

      •  Actually,... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Nature Guy

        We're damned because we did,.. JUST ENOUGH.
        Their plans will roll and we will fall.

        We wouldn't have been damned if we didn't.

        Too Late.

        So,...
        when do we thing Sarah will hold her teary press conference?
        Are the talking points typed already?

        •  Who will President Palin (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Cicilia

          After the untimely passing of MacCain name as her VP?

          Top picks -

          1. Britney Spears
          1. Paris Hilton

          3)Perez Hilton

          1. Lassie
          1. The "such as us US Americans" Beauty Queen
        •  Possible Response: (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Mother of Zeus, Scubaval

          We feel great sadness for the Palin family.  Our hearts go out especially to the children's lives harmed by these sad events.

          No child should be sacrificed on the alter of the political aspirations of the parent; no child should be forced to bear the burden of their parent's untruths.  While perhaps noble in intent, Governor Palin's distortions of the truth and attempt to use these distortions of the truth for her political ends have devastated the lives of her children.

          It is truly a sad day when such political aspirations can so distort and twist what should be a joyous thing:  the birth of a new child.

          How do I know what I think 'till I see what I write?

          by JRandomPoster on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:44:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with you! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Mother of Zeus

      I'm not convinced, but I am curious. I'm not a conspiracy nut either, but some of this stuff is just a tad compelling, and if this story turns out to be true, it would be very sad indeed.
       What hits me at a gut level on this are the shots of the Governor's daughter holding the baby. For whatever reason, that young woman is bonded with the baby. Those don't look like a typical older sister and baby brother pictures to me.
        The one of the Governor and the baby does NOT look like a mother/baby shot. This can all be explained away I'm sure, but this Governor Palin raises all kinds of red flags for me, and this possibility seems to fit more and more, like pieces in a puzzle when closely looked at.

      McCain's platform: Noun, verb, POW!!

      by elwior on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 06:59:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  WTF does this mean? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      yuriwho, pernoclone

      AND  IIIFFFF the child is her daughter's, then has anyone considered the possibility that the child is not a Down syndrome baby, just fathered by a non-anglo?  

    •  Her husband is part Inuit (0+ / 0-)

      thus all her kids are non-anglo's in part.

      That is an awful thing to say.

      "lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed"

      by yuriwho on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:18:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is Palin a Manchurian ??? (0+ / 0-)

  •  Headline on Fox News? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Nedsdag, SmilingPolitely, elwior

    If we were talking about Michelle Obama, Fox News would pre-empt coverage of Hurricane Gustav's New Orleans landfall to run it 24-7!

  •  Proof of what? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dufffbeer, beijingbetty

    The story of Trig's birth merely shows that Palin's judgement is suspect.  Maybe not even that depending on which nurse or doctor you believe.

    All the other stuff is weak, and not sure what it is evidence of, if anything.

    There is no need to make a big hullabaloo about this; the minute Palin was picked, hordes of reporters and political operatives would be headed to Alaska, and if they found anything we'd know.

    No need to drag dailykos through this, in my opinion.

    •  KOS should exercise editorial judgement (0+ / 0-)

      and delete this kind of crap. Hell, I could post a sensational diary with the flimsiest of evidence on this site, and no doubt about it, there would be many people who would recommend it, because they want to believe something offensive and ridiculous about a political opponent.

      There are other sites which edit/delete posts and there is no reason that KOS could not do the same. It is a matter of survival for this site. If this site turns into a collection of "unsubstantiated rumor" tagged diaries, who will even consider wasting their time here?

      True, there have only been two baseless diaries by this author, but what is to keep people intent on besmirching this site and the progressive blogosphere in general from taking advantage of a site that fails to protect itself?

  •  The photos of the teen holding the baby (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    oncall, dufffbeer, yuriwho, beijingbetty

    are bullshit. They explain nothing. Everybody in the family is holding the baby depending on which hour.

    Focusing on the bizarre KNOWN details of the pregnancy is fine, important even. The rest of the filler, and the refusal to acknowledge criticism, is starting to appear to me to fit the pattern of manipulation by the opposition.

  •  Hospital birthlist (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SmilingPolitely

    "Mat-Su Regional, the hospital where Trig Palin was delivered, surprisingly does not list Trig on their own list of babies born in that facility for that day of April 18th. A peculiar oddity, as hospitals are usually proud when a local celebrity gives birth within  their facility."

    I jus checked and you are correct: There is no entry for Trig at all in April.

    http://www.matsuregional.com/nursery/nursery_name.php?start=60&step=30&count=505

  •  Photos of Bristol timeline are off. (3+ / 0-)

    Here is the image as sourced with an article from the ADN. http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/339587.html

    The article has a publication date of March 2008. But the photo was not taken then. Look at this article from 2006, also by ADN: http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8334949p-8231037c.html

    The family are wearing the same clothes, and have the same hair. They are outdoors. The newspaper repurposed a file photo of the Palins for their article in 2008.

    •  So, in other words: (0+ / 0-)

      The earlier photo of Palin tells us nothing.

      •  Which Palin? (0+ / 0-)

        Sarah Palin is covered up with a vest in either photo. She could easily be pregnant, her way.

        The 'clearly pregnant' Bristol people are commenting on would have been pregnant in October 2006.

        That said, I am amazed the Palin family haven't issued a statement on this yet. I expect we will hear something pretty forceful about this, one way or another, on Monday.

        •  Another photo ... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Bush Happens

          Saw that this has been picked up by a number of sites, including Townhall. I skimmed the comments, and a commenter linked the following photo on flickr ... one I had not seen yet.

          Photo link here.

          Sarah definitely looks pregnant ... the date stamp says 2005 though. Could be a camera w/ date settings not current?

          •  The other photo (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            olivia

            linked from the one you showed, is labeled "Last day of the 25th AK legislature".

            The 25th AK legislature just finished their summer session, which would be well after Sarah Palin gave birth. So I am not sure whether this is properly labelled -- but this could be easily verified with the TV news crew she is with.

            She looks more pregnant here than when she was a couple months away from being due. Which I think is possible -- some babies are hard on the mothers' bodies, and maybe she wasn't consuming quite enough calories...? I don't know. But she looks like a pregnant or post-partum, nursing mom to me in these pix.

          •  The previous photo Last day of 25th AK legislatur (0+ / 0-)

            Also says Gov. Palin.

            She looks pregnant.

            None of this explains when she found out her baby had Downs Syndrome. First mention of that is on April 22, she said she was confused at first to hear the news, but she doesn't exactly say when she first found out.

            What if she didn't know her baby would be born with Downs?

            Do we know it is Downs?

            Someone needs to review the medical records.

    •  The photo is from 2006 (5+ / 0-)

      The article is from 2008, but it uses a photo from 2006. The ages of the kids in the caption are 2 years less than their ages today. This photo is not proof that Bristol Palin was pregnant in March 2008.

      "I'm going to be on you like a numerator on a denominator." -Principal Skinner

      by dufffbeer on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:03:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  thank you for pointing that out (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sharon Wraight, beijingbetty

      The photo progression of non-pregnant Bristol to pregnant Bristol is completely false, as ARCXIX fails to understand the use of file photos.  In addition, the photo that is described as a 1989 photo of Palin pregnant with Track links to an AP photo which the AP describes as an "undated" photo provided by the Heath family.

      There is something weird going on here, especially with regard to Palin's alleged bizarre behavior after her (or someone's) water broke.  But sloppy research will come back to bite you in the ass.  

  •  Now I am convinced more than ever (0+ / 0-)

    You are making a stronger case every day.  

    When we got into office, the thing that surprised me most was to find that things were just as bad as we'd been saying they were. -JFK

    by optimusprime on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 07:52:07 PM PDT

  •  A COUPLE OF SNIPPETS W/GOOGLE MAP IMAGES (3+ / 0-)

    1. BRISTOL PALIN ACCIDENT WAS IN FRONT OF FAMILY PRACTICE MEDICAL CENTER

    The accident report cited above referenced Bristol Palin being involved in a car accident on February 8, 2008 at "Seward Meridian Parkway and Fireweed Drive." Although there is a Fireweed Drive in Wasilla, WA, Google Maps says it doesn't intersect with Seward Meridian Parkway. However, there is a Fireweed Road with such an intersection, and it happens to be right in front of "Family Medicine of Alaska," a family practice for Robert C. Myers, MD and Rayleen A. Greathouse, MD. Here's the Google Map image:

    http://i35.tinypic.com/2nw0eoh.jpg

    And here's the web site for the practice:

    http://familymedicineofalaska.com/index.html

    The phone number is (907) 376-1276. I am sure some of our nation's enterprising journalists are on the phone to said facility presently. Of course, it's wholly unsubstantiated that either physician has even met her and if so she could have just been treated for mono there.

    1. WOW, SARAH PALIN REALLY DID DRIVE A LONG WAY TO GO TO MAT-SU HOSPITAL

    Look at this Google Map image -- Google Maps pegs the drive from the Anchorage airport to the non-NICU-havin' Mat-Su regional Medical Center (where Palin gave birth) at 52 minutes to cover 43.8 miles:

    http://i34.tinypic.com/15wds75.jpg

    In contrast, Palin's other two options (which reportedly were outfitted with equipment suited for the one-month premature birth of infants with special needs) were really close.

    Alaska Regional was 11 minutes for 3.2 miles:
    http://i35.tinypic.com/2rp9wsn.jpg

    Providence Alaska was 13 minutes for 4.6 miles:
    http://i33.tinypic.com/opmdqp.jpg

    Thus ends my contribution for this fine evening.

  •  Nuts (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight

    You people are lunatics. Truly idiots.

  •  Look (2+ / 3-)

    Recommended by:
    desiunion, coigue
    Hidden by:
    sxp151, yuriwho, trashablanca

    Look people. Do you want to see? Here she is pregnant...... Wake up retards.

    http://alaskareport.com/news31/z49194_republican_convention.htm

  •  Welcome To All The Town Hall Readers!!! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight
    Loved this quote from TH. Not mine. I don't go there for that. "I didn't say it was proof - I just thought it was kinda strange that Palin hardly held the child at all. There may indeed be nothing sinister in it at all, but the daughter is clinging on rather tightly from the pictures I have seen. So, regardless of anyone's view it'll all come out in the wash. I expect McCain to produce the relevent medical records and heap scorn upon those who raised these doubts in the first place. And if he doesn't, well, the rumours will remain in circulation, won't they? If he has her records, which he should after vetting her, he can nip this in the bud. So why on earth wouldn't he... one can only guess." Meanwhile, for you TH people, McCain voted FOR TORTURE. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/31/mccain_suggests_bush_has_endor.html Look up "mccain vote for torture" and look what you find. 3,690,000 Hits!!!!!! McCain thinks he's talking to morons who won't look up his own vote SUPPORTING torture. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/todays_must_read_276.php http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/us/politics/17torture.html?ref=politics http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021503318.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/mccain-votes-against-tort_n_86549.html http://madison.com/tct/opinion/letters/300937
    •  What (0+ / 0-)

      He won't produce the records because it isn't in his best interest. Acting like paranoid losers does NOT hurt the Republicans. It makes Democrats look like sexist assholes.

      There is nothing to gain by acting like morons. If all of this WAS true, it wouldn't hurt Palin, and might even help her. Normal people realize that this is a highly perosnal area that deserves respect.

      •  But on the other hand: (0+ / 0-)

        They made this an issue by bringing it up; therefore, it wouldn't hurt to talk about it and see where the evidence leads. For instance, someone pointed out that Mat-Su Hospital did not have a record of the governor giving birth there; however, that is a long drive for her, and there were two facilities that were much closer for her.

  •  STOP THE PRESSES! Sarah is the pregnant one! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight

    I 2nd desiunion's comment. The alaska report even has the photo file name as palin_pregnant.jpg

    http://alaskareport.com/images31/palin_pregnant.jpg

  •  This is disgusting (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight

    You win -- I'm voting for McCain.

  •  This would be easy for any investigative (0+ / 0-)

    journalist to prove one way or the other. Interview the staff at the hospital. Interview the guy her daughter had the car accident with and the cops who issued the various citations. Interview schoolmates/friends of the daughter.

    This should not be hard to prove conclusively one way or the other.

    "lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed"

    by yuriwho on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:07:38 PM PDT

  •  This whole story line reeks of bullshit. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    daulton, Sharon Wraight

    There is absolutely no reason that this story (and that is exactly what this ridiculous accusation actually is) should even be considered remotely legitimate.

    I encourage KOS to consider the diarist unwelcome in the KOS community.

    Who remembers when Elizabeth Smart of Utah was kidnapped and the whole country was led to believe that the guilty person was a contractor who worked at her family's house? That contractor died while in prison as he would not admit to a crime that he did not commit. The entire country believed that Elizabeth Smart would not be found because Mr. Richard Ricci had died. Well, millions of people were wrong, but influenced by bogus circumstantial garbage. The same thing is going on here.

    Unsubstantiated hunches have got to stop. Bogus innuendo, half truths and ridiculous assertions of "proof" (the picture of Gov. Palin's daughter at the inauguration is not a side view and therefore it is impossible to tell how large her gut is). KOS has to exercise legitimate self protection and remove this diary and its parent diary.

  •  Townhall.com (0+ / 0-)

    Townhall is conservative site. There's an article talking about this diary and appears that even the commenters are discussing what we are.......

  •  medical records please (0+ / 0-)

    Shouldn't she have to submit her medical records, just as Obama and McCain did?

  •  Fuel for the fire (0+ / 0-)

    Bristol's husband is Chris Ray or "C-Ray" a 16 year old from a town called Palmer, AK which is where Mat Su Hospital is located, where Trig was supposedly born. Population: 6,920.  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Chris+ray%22+%22Bristol+Palin%22&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

  •  This the media picks up (0+ / 0-)

    This the media picks up. Not the fact Mccain takes credit such as the cross in the sand.

  •  To the diarist: (0+ / 0-)

    the matsuregional.com site is down.  the birth list is now unavailable.

    also, in spite of people here not liking to talk about this, the information is getting around.

    two compelling photos: the 1989 pregnant Sarah photo and the two of the daughter.

    I would hope Mrs. Palin either comes clean or provides proof that Trig is hers.  And I would say this is none of our business except she has brought the topic into the campaign herself.

    And the site-scrubbing is getting suspicious.

    I am an Edwards Democrat!
    I am also droogie6655321!

    by Scubaval on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:49:44 PM PDT

  •  A Couple of Questions (0+ / 0-)

    Hi,
    IF the child is proven to be her daughter's, I don't really have an issue with her raising the child as her own if anyone can answer these questions in the negative:

    1. If she is claiming the child as her own on taxes, is that tax fraud?
    1. If she submitted for a ss# for the child with her name listed as the mother, is that a federal crime?

    I dislike this lady intensely from what I've seen of her so far but I don't want to dig in her dirt unless there really is a body.

  •  Why were only the Grand Parents photographed... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    m0nstermike, Scubaval

    ... at the hospital???

    Local Coverage: 'Welcome to Alaska, Trig'

    http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?s=8194634

  •  Everyone, Calm Down. It's All Over The Internet (0+ / 0-)

    I will provide here some independent sites that talk about the same thing.  Read these Internet sites and you decide.

    http://alaskapodshow.com/index.php/2008/08/30/sarah-palin-pregnancy-scandal/

    http://www.youtube.com/user/retailisthedevil

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnBjwZ93n6Q

    http://www.bristolpalinpregnant.com/

    Please be assured that it's not just a small number of Democrats raising this question.  It is perfectly reasonable to ask this question when the stakes are so high and evidences are compelling enough to raise this question.  Already there are so many evidences and so many people raising this question.

  •  What is the date of the Pic (0+ / 0-)

    taken with Bristol in the teal shirt, pictured above?

  •  Here is a photo from KOS showing a pregnant Palin (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    daulton

    The diarist missed this one. I think their diary just blew up in their face

  •  There's a legitimate public interest in this... (0+ / 0-)

    I hate to see a teenage girl be the focus of so much attention, particularly in this kind of situation, but I see that there are several issues that make Palin's actions (not the daughter's, for whom this all must be seem cruel and mortifying) worthy of public scrutiny.

    1. Abuse of power: Did the governor use her influence to have a false birth certificate issued showing her as the mother when she was not in fact the mother?
    1. Insurance fraud: If the child is not her own, health insurance coverage may not be available to the child after the child's alleged real mother reaches the age of majority.  Misrepresenting the child as one's own creates a strong likelihood that the governor will participate, or intended to participate, in insurance fraud.  (I'd give her a pass on this, provided she comes out as a strong advocate for universal health care.  But why worry about that - aren't we all confident that health care coverage for a child with Down syndrome will available for a reasonable price on the open market under John McCain's plan?)
    1. Misrepresentation of Palin's character to the public: If the child is really Palin's daughter's, presenting the child as Palin's own grossly distorts and misrepresents her 'walking the walk, not just talking the talk' decision - which is part of the McCain/Palin campaign narrative - to bring the pregnancy to term.  Maybe Palin's daughter wanted to have the baby, or maybe Palin refused to let her daughter terminate the pregnancy - these are substantially different narratives.
    1. Palin's judgment: Assuming the child is Palin's, the whole flight back to Alaska from Texas shows remarkably poor judgment.  Again assuming the child is Palin's, she's embarking on a 50-state campaign - doesn't the child deserve a lot more attention from his parents than they are going to be able to give him?).  Again, her judgment as a parent leaves a lot to be desired.

    I feel sorry for the poor daughter.

  •  something to see here (0+ / 0-)

    Don't know if there's fire, but I smell smoke.  People who are saying this story can't possibly be true have no idea what these Religinut Fundies are really like.  The story is entirely plausible and I have yet to see any evidence that it could not possibly be true.  

  •  i am so tired of liars in the whitehouse (0+ / 0-)

    this is palins daughters kid for sure - what new mom would take 2 months campaigning after having a special needs child.  what mom would fly 8 hours plus give a speech after she started leaking and the baby was a preemie.  who doesn't look at all 7 months pregnant?  this lady is a phony and i am tired of phonies in the whitehouse.  can you imagine if iran and israel or saudi arabia and whoever got into a war - and god forbid something happened to john mccain and this woman was our leader???  she has zero foreign policy experience and has not traveled very much like george bush hadn't.  she doesn't have time to think about the iraq war she told a columnist.  this is who YOU want running our economy? our taxes? our social security? our military? our relations with other countries?  she would be the neocons puppet. WAKE UP YOU ROBOTS.  THE PHOTOS SHOW HER DAUGHTER WITH CHILD IN BELLY.

  •  Puppyfat (0+ / 0-)

    Aren't you meant to lose your puppy fat when you approach the end of puberty?

    http://www.basereality.com/intahweb/HugeElection/PuppyFatGetsWorse_256.png

    Good, quick, cheap. Choose two.

    by Danack on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:18:52 PM PDT

  •  The right to privacy (0+ / 0-)

    I can't decide validity of this story, but if true,
    I think I see its importance.

    According to the Supreme Court, the the right to an abortion on demand derives from the constitutional right to privacy.  Sarah Palin wants to narrow the interpretation of that right to privacy.  In Sarah Palin's America, pregnant girls will have no choice but to carry to term.  Pregnant school girls will often experience stigma and humiliation and considerable disruption to their lives.  Now the "new" pro-life view (as projected in the fantasy movie Juno) would have us viewing girls who choose not to abort has public heros, paragons of responsibility (at least after the fact).  If the Palins indeed felt so much shame about Bristol's (hypothetical) pregnancy that they arranged this extremely elaborate (hypothetical) charade, I call that hypocrisy.   A pain-free pro-life plan that works only if your mother can pull all the strings a governor can pull won't fall within the reach of an average American girl in trouble.  (Hypothetically) the Palins went to great trouble to preserve the illusion of Bristol's virginity (in a subculture where that presumably matters).  Sarah Palin would change the law to maximize the exposure the precociously sexually active.  Hypothetically, she has constructed a bubble of privacy for her own daughter that she would systematically deny to other girls in the same situation.

  •  Ladies and Gentlemen, BabyGate is officially over (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    coigue, Derfel, Lloyd Center, sdbos


    Now get to bed.

    •  Dumbass (0+ / 0-)

      Every single Maternity clinic, sex ed class or similar facility has "pregnancy simulator" devices.
      Ya don't think that, once she decided to fake it she got hold of one from the Doctor friend facilitating the fraud do you?
      You know, just in case people expected her to look pregnant.
      No! Surely not.

      Everything else is invalidated because she couldn't be that clever could she.

      What an ass you are

      •  This entire BabyGate rumor (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Derfel

        was based primarily on a small handful of ambiguous photos.  She clearly looks pregnant in this photo.  How far do you want to stretch this conspiracy theory?

        •  No, NONE of the photos matter one WHIT (1+ / 1-)

          Recommended by:
          Derfel
          Hidden by:
          coigue

          All the intersecting circumstantial evidence is the core of the case. (timing, eyewitness, labor, time off school, etc etc)

          You are a slimy toad to deliberately suggest otherwise for your own purposes.

          The photos are either ambiguous or do not in any way prove the belly is not fake Sarah wore for the ruse.

          Get a brain or sod off to a conservative site where they have none of their own.

  •  Whutohhh.. Looks like she knows the Palins (0+ / 0-)

    From:
    http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/off-to-the-land-of-palin/#comments

    Sue Williams (12:31:50) :

    To the person who commented on Sarah’s hair - no, it’s what happens when one has hair extensions - which Sarah, at one time, don’t know about now, had.

    Re: babygate - I don’t know what’s being reported. Here, however, is the truth. Trig is Sarah and Todd’s baby.

    When Sarah first learned she was pregnant, it was shocking and overwhelming. While she and Todd had not planned to have anymore children, it is common knowledge among their family and friends that neither of them ever surgically insured that they wouldn’t have any "late in life" surprises/blessings.

    This, to me, showed a disturbing lack of judgement. If you want to ask the citizens of a state to let you run the state for four years, to me she and Todd should have thought ahead and determined that the possibility of an unplanned pregnancy wouldn’t have been prudent for either the child, their family, their extended family (who are the ones who end up helping them raise their current four children) or the citizens of the state.

    They either didn’t think this through, or didn’t care. Not sure. But, either way, to me and to others, it was a lack of foresight and judgement.

    But it is the same vein - this lack of judgement - Sarah showed, on the campaign trail for governor, when asked who would raise her children should she win, she promptly stated that Todd would quit his job and stay at home with the kids (Todd works a "Slope" week on/week off schedule).

    Sarah was elected and then - whoops. Todd didn’t like the stay at home gig - so Sarah, citing they needed money for the kid’s college (even though Track enlisted in the military) said Todd was returning to work. When asked about her statements on the campaign trail about how Todd would quit his job, Sarah said she’d actually never talked to him about what they would do if she was elected (in terms of his employment) and that she’d spoken out of turn when she spoke for him stating he’d quit his job.

    Again, call me picky, but this is the kind of bizarre judgement Sarah routinely displays. Are you kidding me that she would run for governor and she and her husband would somehow not think to have a conversation about what to do with their four school aged kids? That’s insane. So, either her judgement is super goofy, or she wasn’t telling the truth. Either way, it’s not reassuring to now think this is someone who would be one 72 year old heartbeat away from having to call shots for the country/world.

    So Todd trots himself back to work and Sarah is busy traipsing around the state and the nation. The kids are "farmed out" (this is the word used by thier associates in "the Valley") to family and friends to raise while Todd and Sarah are off having their respective careers (Sarah is famously quoted as saying, "My mom does whatever I need her to").

    During this period is when Bristol, Sarah’s sixteen year old daughter, turns up pregnant. So, it’s kind of interesting to note that the Republican Vice Presidential Nominee and her sixteen year old junior in high school unwed daughter were carrying babies at the same time. Once Bristol’s condition became more obvious this summer, she was whisked out of sight and hasn’t been seen in public until yesterday in Ohio. This is why Trig’s blanket was strung across her entire abdomen and torso, but, when she walked down the stairs from the stage, in a profile shot, it was very clear to see she is well into her third trimester of her pregnancy.

    It has come out in the past couple of days that she and her high school boyfriend had a quickie wedding and that she is home schooling her senior year.

    The Anchorage Daily News has known about this for months - and haven’t touched the story. But I can’t imagine the national press or the Democratic Party will be as willing to turn a blind eye.

    For me, once again it speaks to judgement. We all - every single one of us - even Sarah’s closest friends in the Valley (I know, I’ve been speaking to them) know she is in no way qualified for this position. At all.

    But then, why would she accept the nomination, knowing that Bristol’s situation will come to light and knowing her hunger for national and international acclaim and attention will carry with it a mighty high price for her seventeen year old daughter who had absent parents last year and who turned up pregnant.

    How embarrassing will it be for Bristol once the news (or the baby) comes out and not just the Valley, not just Alaska, not just the USA - but Bristol will be known the world over as the seventeen year old unwed - then quickly wed senior-in-high-school-homeschooled-teenage mom and daughter to the Republican Vice Presidential Nominee?

    How hard will that degree of scrutiny and shame be?

    How does one do that to one’s daughter?

    How does one dash about the country for the next 66 days trying to pull off an image of the devoted mother of five when she, by and large, isn’t the one raising them and when one of them - her daughter, is in a truly vulnerable point in life; not to say anything about the needs of Trig. But maybe he doesn’t count, except as a talking point or a photo prop. But this is a person, a little boy who is going to require a tremendous amount of time and attention. From his mother.

    This is okay?

    •  More from the Alaskan who know's the Palins (0+ / 0-)

      Sue Williams (13:07:22) :

      Hello One Love. I live in this Valley. I know the Heath/Palin families. I am a proud Republican. And I’m a conservative. Frankly, if Democrats realized how socialistic and liberal Sarah is in her governing stances, probably they’d welcome her on the ticket.

      My points were directed at her judgement. I do not trust Sarah’s judgement.

      Just like her decision, once her water broke while, according to her, she was in the middle of delivering an address in Texas, and she decided she "just couldn’t deliver her baby in Texas," so she hopped on two flights and flew for ten hours plus back to Alaska where Trig was born just a couple hours later.

      She is 44. She knew she had a medically classified high risk pregnancy. She knew she was carrying a special needs baby. She knew she was in active labor one month prior to her due date. She knew her water had broken (which means she is in what is considered medically active labor) when she chose to put herself on two long flights.

      This is sound judgement?

      This is not sound judgement.

      I will not vote for Sarah to be one heart beat away from having to make decisions that effect every citizen of our country on matters of national security. She has demonstrated to me that she is faulty in making decisions of security and safety when it comes to her own children.

    •  Let me see (0+ / 0-)

      How does one do that to one’s daughter?

      I believe it is this web-site that has done it.

      How does one dash about the country for the next 66 days trying to pull off an image of the devoted mother of five when she, by and large, isn’t the one raising them and when one of them - her daughter

      Being a working mom is bad, okay, I can see that as a liberal point of view.

      How embarrassing will it be for Bristol once the news (or the baby) comes out and not just the Valley, not just Alaska, not just the USA - but Bristol will be known the world over as the seventeen year old unwed - then quickly wed senior-in-high-school-homeschooled-teenage mom and daughter to the Republican Vice Presidential Nominee

      I agree, accepting one's daughter unequivocally would be as bad has having a Vice President with a lesbian daughter.  We need to make this liberal tent much smaller.

      it is common knowledge among their family and friends that neither of them ever surgically insured that they wouldn’t have any "late in life" surprises/blessings.
      This, to me, showed a disturbing lack of judgement

      Absolutely agree, we all know the pill and condoms are 100% effective.

      >

      The Anchorage Daily News has known about this for months - and haven’t touched the story. But I can’t imagine the national press or the Democratic Party will be as willing to turn a blind eye

      Shocking, a 17 year-old high school girl got preggers and the newspaper didn't cover it.  What a lack of journalistic integrity.

      "Compassion and tolerance are not signs of weakness, indeed they are signs of strength." - His Holiness, the Dalai Lama

      by dablueshound on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:58:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  ...uhmmm (0+ / 0-)

    Why do I feel like I've just tuned into Comcast cable Channel 26 and am wondering why the hell no one ever saw that plane actually hit the Pentagon?

  •  ArcXIX, next time PLEASE,... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lloyd Center

    either downplay or remove the photo evidence.
    It's all ambiguous, fakeable and peripheral compared to all the other intersecting circumstances.

    Nitwits keep using it's weakness to belittle the case and also using "discovered" photos of Sarah with belly to counter it. That makes no sense, as she'd be insane to NOT wear a fake belly shortly after announcing, but yet it keeps coming!

  •  Like to see some evidence on the school absence (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rockyfort

    IF Bristol was out of school for five months before the birth, then Sarah must have had five months notice.
    THAT just does not gel with the fact that Sarah waited until 1-2 months before the birth to go public (and faking no signs before it).
    Also, with such notice, she would have definitely been wearing a progressively larger fake belly during that time to bolster the whole story.

    IF there was no Sarah belly and then suddenly was one shortly after her public announcement at seven months, that points to very late notice from Bristol and a rushed attempt to play the part. In which case, why would Bristol be out of school for any more than maybe three months before the birth?

  •  ArcXIX is a Pathetic Liar (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    coigue, rockyfort

    It's becoming quite clear that ArcXIX purposely edited out the fact that the photo that is supposed to prove Bristol was pregnant was taken in 2006.

    It's also becoming quite clear that ArcXIX purposely, maliciously, and willfully deceived readers here on Kos by willfully refusing to post pictures of the obviously pregnant Gov. Palin.

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/2814199887_67e84850f4.jpg?v=0

    http://alaskareport.com/images48/trig_paxon_van_palin.jpg

    http://community.adn.com/sites/community.adn.com/files/images/govp_washingtondc2008_large.preview.jpg

    I'll call ArcXIX out on it.

    ArcXIX you are the ignorant pathetic and malicious liar. In fact, I am willing to bet that this buffoon is a plant who came up with this story so the rest of us would get smeared with it.

    That's where this is headed if we don't stop this nonsense now.


    BTW: Sarah Palin might be a public figure. Bristol Palin is not. Thus, ArcXIX's most likely would meet the standard for libel as applied to Bristol.

    •  Question (0+ / 0-)

      Cause I'm on the fence on this one, but were these photos taken after she announced?  Because if so, the don't really show much.

      Gah, I wish this would end, though....

    •  william wallace, who art thou? (0+ / 0-)

      1 comment ever (duplicated) and You are calling a long time kossarian out?

      P.S. I'm not accepting ArcXIX 's point of view and I have asked that heorshe not keep reposting this stuff (primarily because the issue is on the table and doesn't need to muck up Daily Kos).

      Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

      by ROGNM on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:09:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  re: 2006 or 2008 photo? (0+ / 0-)

      the controversial photo appeared in a March 9, 2008 article, but also appears in a photo collection with a 2006 date claimed in the caption.  However, that caption also indicated that the daughter Bristol was 16 in 2006...  and nobody has produced a link to any 2006 article including the photo in question, although the 2008 article with the photo IS available.

      this pregger hysteria is also just the beginning of a larger thread that will continue the public vetting of Palin rich with themes of deception, duplicity and abuse of power.

      as for the 1989 photo, that's her on the right and her Mom, Mrs. Heath, on the left.  the pic was provided to the AP by Mr. Heath, the veepstaker's dad.

      the bottom line remains that McCain has demonstrated that he is an impulsive and reckless "maverick" and really has no business running for POTUS.

  •  Where do I start? (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sooz, coigue, Sharon Wraight, rockyfort

    First of all, one of the pictures you have as evidence of your theory is from 2006.  That pretty much calls into the question the rest of your "evidence."

    Here's a picture that is noticeably absent from your post:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hnqpvFwIwnw/SLtnlO_4k9I/AAAAAAAAA2o/fRb-OpkOBH0/s1600-h/preggers.jpg

    She looks pregnant to me.

    "As any mother of more than one child will tell you..." every pregnancy is DIFFERENT.  So it's not beyond the realm of possibility that she would "show" more for one pregnancy than another.  Comparing the two pregnancy pictures together is not evidence of anything.

    I worked with a woman who had to rush to the hospital to give birth.  In the office, guess how many of us, including her boss, knew she was pregnant: 0.  As countless mothers of teenage girls will tell you, pregnancies aren't always obvious, even in late term.  There have been plenty of cases where teenage girls hid their pregnancies from their own parents until they gave birth.

    How many medical professionals does it take to cover up the maternity of a child?  How many do you think would be willing to risk their careers after 10 years in medical school and hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in their careers to lie about this?  Covering up the paternity of a child is probably pretty easy. Hiding who the mother is? Not so much.

    Finally, I didn't realize the standards were this low at Daily Koz to perpetuate this type of slander.  Are there any standards at all here?  You should be embarrassed.  Heck you should be embarrassed even if this unsubstantiated rumour was true.

    •  ArxXIX is either a troll or a political idiot (0+ / 0-)

      I'm disgusted not only by the lack of political intelligence in this post (it can only help McCain win), but also the simple lack of class.  

      "ArcXIX" has posted 2 diaries on this story in two days -- and only one other diary in the entire time he has been on dKos, in Dec 2005.

      rpj2004 has the diary about Bristol's current pregnancy.  Here is the statement by the Palin's about it.  (At any plausible stage of pregnancy now, Bristol could not also be the mother of Trig, who was born April 18, 2008.)

      Statement from Sarah and Todd Palin
      We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us. Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support.

      Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media to respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates.

      A teenage child's personal life should not be discussed on a political blog.

  •  In the 1989 picture the woman on the right does (0+ / 0-)

    In the 1989 picture the woman on the right does not look like Sarah Palin.  Even though she is turned away, the woman on the left (the thinner woman) looks more like Sarah.

  •  Wikipedia... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    coigue, Sharon Wraight

    ...will link to this blog when they try to describe the word "despicable."

  •  her glory or her daughter? (0+ / 0-)

    To me, if the baby is her daughter's, the important questions are: Did Palin perpetrate this falsehood to protect her daughter? And if so, did she take into account that the falsehood might be revealed if she accepted the VP nomination? In other words, did she put her political opportunity over what she saw as her daughter's good? And, if the story is true, was Palin too arrogant or too foolish to believe it wouldn't come out once she was nominated?

    •  She was betting on idiots (0+ / 0-)

      Like the ones who want to SCRUBB this story.

      Why is she scrubbing her internet record if there is nothing to hide?

      Why one day I see a picture with a date on it from a goverment site and the next day it is GONE!!!
      Why did NO pregger pictures come until yesterday!!

      You are a complete Ignoramous if you think that damn pictures of her pregnant would have passed the eyes of others.

      There is NO WAY she would have been mistakened for NOT being pregnant

      KICK FRIGGIN ROCKS!!!!!

      NOT THIS TIME!!!

  •  Let me tell you how I know (0+ / 0-)

    You nay sayers are PLANTS.

    With all the evidence you don't even entertain the idea that it could possibly be true.

    You don't give any explantion for her bizaar behaviour

    And you want this story SCRUBBED

  •  Palin Speaking to Alaska Republican Convention (0+ / 0-)

    The video is of Alaska Republican Congressman Don Young sitting at the speakers table refusing to stand while Governor Palin speaks to the Alaska Republican Convention on March 14, 2008.

    Pause the video at exactly 2 minutes and 40 seconds. You tell me what you see here. This is one month and four days before Trig Palin was born.

    I don't care about the single picture that has been uncovered.  This looks like a woman who is not seven months pregnant.

  •  Big Mistake (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight, Lloyd Center

    I'm sure that this was written with all the intentions of ruining Palin's character and hurting McCain's chances in November but all this is going to do is strengthen their resolve to win it and probably rally the base. This is just as easily spun as a heartfelt story of a strong family stepping up to take care of each other.

  •  What if this were true? (0+ / 0-)

    This is all over the Internet. I mean ALL over it. If this were true, why would alaska.gov take down some of Palin's family photos that were previously up? Let's see if she releases Trig's official birth certificate to end this debate. You do NOT get smaller with each pregnancy. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Your body adjusts and even begins to show sooner with subsequent prenancies.

    Her daughter is showing signs of pregnancy in two photos, so where is her child?

    •  Her daughter is showing signs of pregnancy in two (0+ / 0-)

      photos, so where is her child?

      Read the news release slowly, it is on its way.

      "Compassion and tolerance are not signs of weakness, indeed they are signs of strength." - His Holiness, the Dalai Lama

      by dablueshound on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:39:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with the vast majority of the comments (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight

    I'm convinced that ArcXIX is a troll and the worst kind of troll. Do you realize that ArcXIX's diaries are getting picked up by the rightwing press and being used to gin up anger and disgust at the Democrats? I feel sorry for Palin's daughter. I really do. This is wretched, putrid ugliness that, unfairly as hell, gives a bad name to our campaign.

  •  scrubbed web pages tell us what? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight

    Palin is not to be trusted.  Wiki page scheme the night before Magoo announced her veepness.

    backwoods medical center has no birth announcement for 04.18.08 for baby Palin (but has 2 other announcements), and has erased the references to her general practitioner physician.

    .gov site was scrubbed repeatedly over the weekend with photo pages moved and moved again.

    and only last night was Magoo's team first reported on the ground to commence the vetting process?!?

    Eagleton redux.

  •  This is a dangerous trap for Daily Kos (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight, Lloyd Center

    There is enough logic to this story to put together a diary entry like this one.

    However, I think it is a Rovean like maneuver to discredit the discreditors.

    Think Texas Air National Guard memo that brought down Rather, where the fake memo was put there to discredit those on the trail of the real memo.

    I think it will hurt Kos if we pursue this story here.

    Let the Enquirer handle it.

  •  STOP THIS! Palin Press Release! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight, Lloyd Center

    Bristol is pregnant and DailyKos is f**ked

    http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2944356420080901?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

    Lets not dig the wounds deeper....

  •  How did this help? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jccleaver, Sharon Wraight

    Ok, can we put this to baby mama drama crap to rest now?  And I'm confused as to how any of these rumours and unabated speculation helped Obama and his campaign.  If anything you created sympathy for Palin and her family. Even an angry liberal has enough perspective to see that I'm sure.

    I'm not going to pretend to be on your side.  I'm not. But what the heck were you thinking?  

    I'll give this site one thing, you are unpredictable.  Who in their right mind could have conceived a plot like this.  It's not the 1950's.  Even in evangelical Christian conservative circles, it's not the end of your political career if your teenage daughter gets pregnant and is punished with a baby.  

    News Flash: A pregnant, unwed teenage daughter isn't the stigma it used to be.  Why risk everything to hide it?

    That's just one of the reasons why I knew this paranoid B.S. wasn't true.  Really wasn't worth covering up.  

    So y'all need to take a deep deep breath, relax, calm down and move on with your lives.  

    Why do you care so much about conservatives and the GOP?  I thought Obama had a lock on this election and was an unstoppable force.  

    Stop acting desperate and keep it classy, lefties.  

    •  So far (0+ / 0-)

      What we know about Gov. Sarah Palin so far is she lies and keeps secrets.  Republicans are screwed.

      •  Hardly... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        jccleaver

        the base will love that they walk the walk, not just talk the talk with their morals. If anything it will probably HELP them!

      •  What secrets? (0+ / 0-)

        This pregnancy was well known.  A 17 year-old in Alaska is preggers, this is news? Folks in her hometown of Wasilla (N. E. Anchorage suburb) knew of it.  What's the big deal?

        It came out because of drooling idiots like this.  Actually, now that I think about it, having a V.P. who can keep secrets wouldn't be such a bad idea.

        "Compassion and tolerance are not signs of weakness, indeed they are signs of strength." - His Holiness, the Dalai Lama

        by dablueshound on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:36:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  ArcXIX (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight, Lloyd Center

    ArcXIX,
    You are a disgrace to DailyKos, and you should quit posting if this turns out to be false.

    DaliyKos is no better than MyDD or even The Drudge Report for posting your trash.

    These types of accusations are exactly what f*ing Bill O'Reilly loves, and I'm sure he will use this to energize the evangelical base.

    Until recently, McCain's support among the evangelical base was mediocre at best. now, the base has even more reason to vote for him and against the "left-wing nuts" of which you are a member.

    Shame on you ArcXIX and shame on DailyKos for letting this get out of hand.

  •  PURE CRAP: ArcXIX's HISTORY: 3 posts since 2005 (0+ / 0-)

    2 of them about the Palin story in the last two Days.  Note Arc's tone of 'certainty'.

    This is a trojan horse.

    Junk it.

  •  We should be above this. (0+ / 0-)

    Fantastic.  Now thanks to all this ridiculous internet rumour-mongering, Palin's campaign has been forced to bring Bristol Palin's private life to the fore by revealing that she is currently pregnant.

    And ultimately, what would all this have achieved even if the rumours where true?  Even if I didn't find it inappropriate delving into the affairs of Palin's underage daughter, there's every chance that it could have backfired, with the rumour-mongers appearing as ruthless and unfeeling while the Palin camp was treated with sympathy.

    Which, come to think of it, could still happen.

    Above all, however, this disgusts me because it comes only days after Barack Obama called for a campaign that focussed on the issues affecting all Americans rather than being bogged down by wedge issues and personal accusations.

    We are above this.  There are so many things for which Sarah Palin can be legitimately criticised.  Her lack of experience.  The firing of Walter Monegan.  Her positions on guns, abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, the teaching of creationism, environmental issues.  Let's focus on that and leave the personal stuff out of it.

  •  Rumour Monger (0+ / 0-)

    You vile, petty, nattering twit.  All your absolutism comes to naught and exposes you as a whining, facist, troubled, rumour monger.  Allow this child to live her life without interference from you.  Have you no sense of pride or decency?

    I don't have the necessary words to express the depth of my sympathy for you.

    "Compassion and tolerance are not signs of weakness, indeed they are signs of strength." - His Holiness, the Dalai Lama

    by dablueshound on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:17:31 PM PDT

  •  good, great, great, very good job kos (0+ / 0-)

    // sarcasm.

    SO NOT WHAT WE NEEDED!

  •  n/m linked to this thing on accident (0+ / 0-)

  •  Be careful with this story (0+ / 0-)

    I think this is an area we as Democrats and progressives should tread very carefully in. We should not emulate the Moral Majority or try to run to their right.

    The optics of any such position are awful and obvious; the GOP can make itself look like the party of the common person with everyday problems, needing everyday solutions. The Democrats can be made to look like the party of the out-of-touch, limousine liberals, living in ivory towers.

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