The police in Somerville, Massachusetts recently arrested a guy they’d been looking for for some time now. There’s been a rash of graffiti around the city, and it’s had quite a few people concerned. But after a few breaks, they caught their guy, and he’s charged with defacing public property.
According to 19-year-old Jason Cutler, he wasn’t the only one responsible for it, but admits to being a part of a group of about 10 young people who didn’t care for the way the city was changing. Somerville is moving upscale, with poorer people moving out, richer people moving in, and old stores making way to such things as coffee shops.
So, what was the response of Cutler and his friends?
They started tagging the city with the rallying cry “KILL A YUPPIE.”
I’m glad he’s been arrested, but I have one niggling question:
Why isn’t he being charged with a hate crime?
He freely admits he was calling for the murder of people based solely on their economic and social class. In my book, that qualifies as a hate crime, as is commonly defined.
But I guess yuppies aren’t considered a “protected class” under the law.
Hey have a heart, the poor kid had to move to Billerica.
Think there’d be a hate crime charge if it had been “Kill WHite Trash”?
Phooie he maybe upset over whats happening but he dont have the right to deface public property him and his bunch should be made to clean up the whole mess with a toothbrush and teacup
Most yuppies are white, sorry, of Northern European ancestry. That might have something to do with it.
Hmmm.
Now if he advocated the spanking of *gay* yuppies then he’d either get a few offers for a dinner and a movie or he’d be strung up by his toes.
Frankly I don’t like “hate crime” laws because they make people unequal before the law. If you’re a member of a “protected” class, then your life is worth more than mine. That rather offends me.
It’s only a hate crime if it’s targeted against a minority… but wait a minute, aren’t yuppies a minority? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
If it were an actual threat, then he COULD and SHOULD be charged with a hate crime. Since it was simply hyperbole and graffiti, rather than an ACTUAL act of violence against a class of people, it was NOT a hate crime.
However, you already knew that, didn’t you? And you are simply guilty of making a ridiculous attack upon those that fought for and created hate crime legislation.
Pretty poor job at a straw-man argument. If someone attacks a protected class of people, or threatens to attack any group of people, then they can be charged with a hate crime. There is no evidence that anyone that urged for the adoption of hate crime legislation would disapprove of this legislation protecting ANYONE who was targeted based on their membership in a group.
Ok, I don’t get it. If he and his friends had written “Kill A Jew” on walls around the city, would that also simply be considered “hyperbole and graffiti,” rather than a hate crime?
Sue:
Yes, you did do a pretty poor job at a straw-man, but you gave it your best, bravo.
Where did Jay attack only the people who fought for and made hate crime legislation? What?! He didn’t?! I am shocked! Shocked and awed that he attacked the inconsistency of the law’s application!
The kid tagged “Kill the yuppies.” Was this simply hyperbole? Sure, the kid could claim that, but how long until that actually begins to escalate beyond rhetoric into action?
No one would wait for it to possibly escalate if it was against a protected class under the law.
Had the kid tagged “Go back to Africa” he would have been slapped with a hate crime so fast his head would spin. It would not matter that that is truly hyperbole and does not threaten violence at all; you cannot simply just pack your stuff and walk to Africa, and it does not even imply force would be used to make anyone comply.
However, tagging “Shoot a redneck” is just a rhetorical cry, nothing more.
I’m just curious, can anyone cite an actual case where someone wrote graffiti that wasn’t aimed at a specific person or persons and was chargd with a hate crime? Since I’m reading these decalarations of fact like “Had the kid tagged “Go back to Africa” he would have been slapped with a hate crime so fast his head would spin” I’m sure there must be examples that are known to you folks and that I just haven’t heard of.
Also, could anyone point to a case where someone was charged with a hate crime for threatening a white male?
Sue, any thoughts?
So, it’s now a crime to advocate killing Yuppies? Bummer, there goes my summer vacation plans. The graffiti is vandalism and a crime, the sentiment is/should be protected speech under the 1st amendment. Bet one of those Yuppy lawyers winds up defending him (Pro-Bono of course) and taking up to the supreme court.
I guess when the ACLU attacks the Boy Scouts we can consider it a hate crime?
The speech is only protected as long as it is not meant to incite an actual act of violence (in my non-legal parlance). I would imagine that someone bent on killing Yuppies would use a more effective method of inciting violence, but I suppose it would (should?) be up to a court to decide.
moseby writes: “I guess when the ACLU attacks the Boy Scouts we can consider it a hate crime?”
No, I think that’s actually a self-hate crime. Only someone harboring enormous amounts of self-abhorrence and genetic hostility towards good and wholesome things would sue the Boy Scouts.
John
i have lived in somerville my whole life, im only 19 and i have been to more funerals then my grandmother, kids i grew up with all my life are addicted to herion, killing themselves or being killed. How many “yuppies” have been killed? None, so why is there no help for the kids who die in the street, but just the threat of rich taxpayer taken so seriously?
Hey Scotty, nice nonsequitor you’ve got going on there.
First, what convinces you there is “no help for the kids who die in the street”?
Why are kids dying in the street? Could it be their own irresponsibility, or do we need to blame that on the yuppies, too?
Maybe skating on public streets should be made illegal if kids can’t figure out a way to do it safely. That would save countless lives, and that’s what we want, right?
And what about parents of underage kids who are skating on the street? Should those parents be held responsible for allowing their kids to be in such (obvious) danger?
The phrase for today is: personal responsibility. Please embrace it.
John
If someone sprayed graffiti that said “kill a Jew”, or “kill all the white men”, or “kill a pregnant black woman”, it would still be hyperbole and vandalism, and NOT a hate crime. It is legal to SAY hateful things. The crime here is spraypainting other’s property. If they spraypainted ONLY Jew’s property, then it COULD be a hate crime.
Both JayTea AND other posters attempt to create a strawman here. It is NOT necessary to explicitly say something in order to be pushing an agenda. The reason for JayTea to question why THIS kid was not charged with a hate crime was to call into question hate crimes. Of that there is NO doubt. However, THIS is NOT an example of a hate crime, since it is hyperbole, not a legitimate threat or an actual physical crime.
Hate crime legislation protects ANYONE that is targeted because of their classification, whether that means they are gay or black or female or yuppie. If yuppies become a targeted group, then they should be protected, and I would strenuously object to ANY denial of protection to yuppies if they did become a targeted group in danger from actual physical crimes or legitimate threats.
When yuppies actually become a targeted group, please let me know.
Sue,
Question: How many yuppies need to die before they become a “targeted group”? 1? 10? 10,000? I’d love to know.
Are blacks a “targeted group”? How about homosexuals? How is that defined, exactly? And who, exactly, is doing the “targeting”?
Finally, how do you decide which speech is protected hyperbole and which is a direct threat? Is all graffiti simple hyperbole? What about spoken threats?
Do you see the problem with hate crime laws? Perhaps if we just treated everyone with, oh I don’t know, equality under the law we might be able to avoid all this BS and punish those who spew hate to boot. Just a random, obviously ‘straw man’ type thought.
The whole concept of “hate crime” would seem completely stupid to me were it not for the political motivation behind the thing. To my mind, that takes it out of the “stupid” column, and puts it in the “insidious” column.
We have laws that exist to provide for penalties, the application of which should serve to protect people and their property from harm. (In my opinion, the only problem with the law now is that the penalties for breaking them aren’t applied often and harshly enough. I don’t think we don’t have a “law” problem so much as we have a “judge” problem.
So far as I have seen, there is no proposed “hate crime” law that adds anything to the level of protection afforded and guaranteed every legal citizen of this country; they only serve to elevate above everyone else one group of people who have in common a belief system at variance with others. In short, they’re “special.”
Last I checked, one of the documents on which this country is based states: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.”
I believe Jefferson’s words apply today.
So, if your rights are being violated, or someone has caused you harm, our legal system already has at your disposal everything you need seek and gain relief.
As for “special laws” to cover instances where someone not only stuck a fork in your eye, but did so with a sneer because he thinks you’re “X” — hate to break it to you, but you’re not that “special.”
John
What a nice attitude you people have. Particularly you John. Its the kids fault their dead, so forget them. Yuppies didnt personally go up and shoot the in the head, or put the heoin in their veins, or put their belt around their neck and hang them. They did it themselvs, so its their fault! No sympathy for these kids why obviosly have more serious problems on their mind than “The Someday cafe ran out os scones”. Their dead, its not my problem, its theirs. Oh, and their families, friends, old nieghbors, or anyone who gives a damn when a 16 year old kid is stabbed to death, or a 19 year old overdoses, or an 18 year old shoots himself in the head. Maybe im just a little too sympathetic when it comes to kids not even out of High school and feel so hopeless they would rathe shoot themselves than go on another day.
What a nice attitude you people have. Particularly you John. Its the kids fault their dead, so forget them. Yuppies didnt personally go up and shoot the in the head, or put the heoin in their veins, or put their belt around their neck and hang them. They did it themselvs, so its their fault! No sympathy for these kids why obviosly have more serious problems on their mind than “The Someday cafe ran out os scones”. Their dead, its not my problem, its theirs. Oh, and their families, friends, old nieghbors, or anyone who gives a damn when a 16 year old kid is stabbed to death, or a 19 year old overdoses, or an 18 year old shoots himself in the head. Maybe im just a little too sympathetic when it comes to kids not even out of High school and feel so hopeless they would rather shoot themselves than go on another day.
Here, john, maybe this will make it more personal for you. David Leo Martini. Bobby J. Hartigan, James Slattery, Ryan Henry Sullivan, Danny Nunes, Chris Ormond, Matty O’Brien, and the list goes on. All dead before twenty, and according to John all fully responsable for what happened. I hate to single one guy out, but john is a horrible excuse for a human being and is the real problem kids have with yuppies, they just dont care.
Woa there StephenMcL. Take a deep, cleansing breath. (Can you smell the freshly baked scones?)
There, doesn’t that feel better.
Now, what did John say that was so horrible. From what I can tell he was arguing for everyone being equal under the law regardless of race, religion or creed. Sound familiar? It should.
For the record, getting emotional and jumping down someone’s throat for pointing out that laws should apply equally to everyone will win you no arguments outside of the Democratic Underground’s basement (at least that’s where I assume they live, given their name) and Moveon.org’s message board.
“Why are kids dying in the street? Could it be their own irresponsibility, or do we need to blame that on the yuppies, too?”
that about sums it up. if you knew the kids who died you’d be a biy miffed too.
“Question: How many yuppies need to die before they become a “targeted group”? 1? 10? 10,000? I’d love to know.”
I have a question for you, Tom. How many kids died from drug overdoses or suicides before something was done to help them? How many Yuppies have died in the history of Somerville? As far as I know none. And yet, as soon as something comes up and scares them, the cops are right on it. Why is that?
Let’s see. I’d imagine that it’s because kids (or anyone, for that matter) dying of an overdose is one of those self-administered Darwinian acts. It’s really not (or shouldn’t be) the police’s job to stop such things.
On the other hand, if there is a threat against a specific person or a specific (specially protected (read: not yuppie)) group, then it is the job of the police to investigate.
But look, I’m not going to change your mind in the comments of a Wizbang post. Have a nice life.
Until next time.
Hey, Tom, I recall a time when the police had the responseablity to stop the flow of drugs. But that must have been the same time when there was sympathy for drug addicted teenagers who, according to you, are all just part of the whole Darwinian theory of “only the strong survive, the drug addicted and desperate should be allowed to die”. Also, I’m not saying its the police’s responsability to do something for the teenagers, but it is the city’s job. Or do you think the weak-minded sixteen-year-old kid’s addicted to drugs are out of city jurisdiction? Maybe you’re right. The police should clean up grafitti, and deal with the cities other menial tasks. As for the kids, hey thats thier problem right? Why Should We care? Until the day its your kids on the news hanging themselvs, or the Principal of your kids high school is announcing over the loudspeaker that another one of their classmates Overdosed last night and wont be around anymore. This would probably mean more to you, but I doubt you have kids, otherwise you might know something about the pain we feel when the city loses another son.
Simple equation:
Parents + Personal Responsibility = Good Kids
Any questions?
I would like to ask another question, tom. What city are you from? Because it sure as hell ist my Somerville. Ive lived here all my life and in my day, which wasnt too long ago I might add, when the communities kids start dying, its everybodies problem. But maybe I,m just old fashioned that way. But I suppose I,m outnumbered here, I can tell a yuppie ran website when I see one. If you were life-long residents like Scotty or I, you would know how the Ville used to do things. Some people used to give a damn.
Well, Tom, I suppose it would be inkeeping with the rest of youre posts to now attck the greiving parents of the dead kids. How many Kids do you have?
Stephen, if you’d like to continue this conversation I’d be more than happy to do so. Just drop me an email or stop by my blog. I think we’ve eaten up enough Wizbang bandwidth with what is likely to be an endless argument.
I dont think we have. Nobody but you or me has typed anything on this for some time. Until they do you respond to me here. No Emails.
I’ve been here since the early 90s, here’s my take.
Why does any discussion of something like this result in someone reciting a f**king litany of the saints and sinners that have gone before us. Matty’s been almost gone four years now and I’m getting tired of people like you invoking his name and whining how the city needs to do something. Yes Stephen, the city needs to step up for these kids, OK, but what? What do these kids need to keep them away from oxycontin and heroin and ultimately killing themselves?
–
Also, I understand Cutter’s got a prior for A&B. Turn this around for a second; suppose you had some “yuppie” with a violent past running around spray-painting “Kill a Townie” all around town.
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P.S. Has anyone seriously busted William Tighe’s chops over Ryan Sullivan? Here’s an idiot who spent a year out of circulation for harassing and assaulting a couple of teenage women, and his first night out of the pen insults some women, gets into a fight with their men and ultimately winds up in Ryan’s stabbing. Does he get a pass because “he’s one of us,” too? Just curious.
Ive lived here in Somerville for the eighteen years ive been alive and when someone like you, Random Thoughts, thinks he can act like he knows shit about shit here because hes been around how long? Since the early 90s? That means nothing. And dont bust my balls about Ryan Sullivan, he was my best friend my entire life and the natives of Somerville will decide who gets the blame. Whether it be Billy Tighe or that scumbag Spinucci and his friends. By the way, Townies are from Charlestown, Villens are from Somerville. And if a yuppie went around writing to kill us, he’d get his ass kicked, not arrested. I dont care if youve lived here one year or one-hundred years, if you didnt grow up here, you will never be fully accepted. Especially with condecending dicks like you with your college education thinking that makes you better than we so-called “townies”. See! No I’m all flustered! and Iwas having a good day. Watch what you say.
I swear to God if any of you yuppies tell me to calm down and smell any “freshly-Baked scones” I will go down to Davis Square and vent my frustration on your coffie shops and stolling minstrals! Dont try to come into a tightly knit community like Somerville, rip it apart and then expect to be welcome members of our society. You do NOT have the same rights as the natives! The law may say you do, but according to us, you DONT!
Stephen, was that a written threat or just a metaphor? Should we yuppies be informing the police that we’ve been threatened again?
Gotta go. Scones in the oven.
“I dont care if youve lived here one year or one-hundred years, if you didnt grow up here, you will never be fully accepted.”
“You do NOT have the same rights as the natives! The law may say you do, but according to us, you DONT!”
Whooooooooooooooooooooeee.
And you wonder why some people don’t give a flying fuck about your situation.
Let’s forget about that. I’ll never be able to grow up here, but I am the parent of two “lifelong Somerville residents”.
Here, let me repeat myself:
Stephen, the city needs to step up for these kids, OK, but what? What do these kids need to keep them away from oxycontin and heroin and ultimately killing themselves?
Stephen, didn’t mean to bust your chops about Ryan. He’s a hero for stepping into that situation, and those two scumbags should get the book thrown at them. Tighe should get at least two minutes for instigating and a double helping of guilt for what he brought on.
Tom, go shove your scones up your ass.
I’m a little confused as to what this whole discussion is actually wrapping around because people are all jumping in different directions which is fine, but I just wanted to offer my support to stephen and scotty being from Somerville myself and close to several of those boys mentioned in stephen’s thread. i fail to see how yuppies have anything to do with johns statement about people taking individual responsible for what has happened to them. i don’t think anybody is blaming yuppies for the death of those boys but who on earth are you to suggest it was their own fault when you have no knowledge of the situations?
it was an insensitive statement and like stephen said, if you knew any of those boys, you wouldn’t have spoken a single word close to that.
And for the record TOM, being sarcastic and demeaning to a boy who is effectively arguing a point that you can’t possibly (and hopefully will never HAVE to) understand is petty and unnecessary.
Take care.
In my defense I offered my opinion and Stephen didn’t like it. I offered to take the discussion to the privacy of email to avoid filling Wizbang’s comments section with useless crap (which, for some reason, I’m still doing).
As for being sarcastic, too bad. I’m tired of people who keep coming back with the same points over and over again…especially when they don’t hold water.
And for the record, I don’t even like scones. And for the further, it was not I who brought those nasty, rock-hard New England treats into the conversation. And one more thing, I think that the suggestion that I place any such large, rock-hard New England treat in my lower colon could be seen as a direct threat against my person and should be taken seriously be the authorities.
Oh, and JessicaA. Who’s the “boy” effectively arguing points here? Guess I’ve been hanging around this thread too long. Here’s to unsubscribing. If anyone wants to continue this conversation you know how to get a hold of me (electronically, that is).
For whatever reason, when I stumbled upon this site today, the only comments I saw were up to October 24th. The rest weren’t there. I may have gotten an old link or something, I don’t know. But that might make my previous post make more sense. And that boy I was referring to was Stephen and his posts regarding John’s posts, if you are really that concerned. But none of these posts change what I wrote in my last one.
The only thing I have to add is that this argument between you two went nowhere primarily as a result of the fact that you are not in Stephen’s shoes and it is impossible to fully understand what he is expressing until you are, which i am in many ways, and which you can’t be. That’s the only reason I’m continuing to post this because i understand stephen’s posts and take offense to the same posts he does. And you recognized that at one point, you said you can’t change his mind so you’ll just go but then you kept coming back. You couldn’t help defending yourself and provoking stephen with more immature jokes about scones in the oven and whatnot.
Finally, blanket statements suggesting that the way to get good kids are parents and personal responsibility is ridiculous. You know as well as any person with a brain that there are factors completely separate from all of that. I could ramble off examples and situations but I don’t feel like that would help my case at all, unless you really can’t wrap your mind around the concept I’ll just save the examples.
That’s all then. Take care.
Jessica/Stephen – does anyone know why the Cutters sold their house and moved out to Billerica? One of the things that bugs me about this whole situation is that he’s been quoted that his parents made “a ton of money” when they sold their house while he’s out raving against some of the same forces that his parents to make that ton of money. It’s pretty hypocritical.
im willing to make a bet 90% of you are not from Somerville or any place like it, so have no idea what its like or how these kids feel so you shouldnt speak on anything and keep your views in your coffee shops cuz like steve said, those who know anything about places like somerville know your yuppie rhetoric wouldnt be taken lightly, infact you would most likely be hospitalized and please dont respond by telling where your from, maybe your from somerville and you just dont get it. IN the city of Somerville the youth crime rate and death toll grows, we can blame the kids i supose but it makes me think why in this 4sq mile city are there just bad kids, why doesnt this happen so much in cities as close as medford or cambridge, not to say it doesnt happen and it is strickly a Somerville problem but check the stats Somervilles is off the charts but i guess there must be something in the water. The message was hateful, a hate crime, maybe, but Jason Cutter is not alone, he is backed by the cities youth who feel the same way he does, what was done was wrong but the question why is ignored. We are dealing with city kids who lashed out the only way they knew how, what they group up seeing and no one ever cared. There is an anger in these kids we can lock up the hole high school or try to understand and help but you dont understand and just dont get so the cycle continues.
Jason Cutter’s not backed by a majority of the cities’ youth, just the small bunch of hoodlums that consists of you and your friends. Why is it that a lot of SHS kids go on to college (including Harvard, wow) and you continue to bitch about others. No wonder people find it hard to care about you.
Face it, someone sold you short. There are families moving into Somerville who expect more out of their kids in a week than anyone ever expected out of you in a year.
Hey, overcaffinated, I love people like you with your internet tough-guy attitude. You dont mind disrespecting people because all they can do is lodge a rebuttle. Of course you could be the kind of guy who is a dick to everyone because you feel youre college education makes you supirior. The fact of the matter is, how do you know the feelings of somerville youth, are you a somervile youth, were you ever? I am a Somerville youth, my friends are, they all agree with Cutter. Maybe he could have done it in a different way, but why is grafitti such a big deal to you people” This being a city, not the suburbs, not everyone agrees with youre bullshit yuppie rhetoric. If you do live in Somerville, than try to ask a kid who is not the product of hippie-yuppie brainwashing how the feel about the grafitti. You, again, are the reason the somerville youth has contempt for yuppies, you have snobby attitudes and dont care about the problems facing the real somerville, outside of your social bubble.
By the way, Overcaffinated, the point you made about some students going on to Harvard is true. Unfortunately it is also completely irrelevant. Any kid from any school in any city can make it to Harvard if they have the right advantages. The fact is Somerville is a very diverse city for only four square miles. We have El Salvadorian gang members as well as white scholars, an El Salvadorian Scholars as well as white gang members. Some people don
By the way, Overcaffinated, the point you made about some students going on to Harvard is true. Unfortunately it is also completely irrelevant. Any kid from any school in any city can make it to Harvard if they have the right advantages. The fact is Somerville is a very diverse city for only four square miles. We have El Salvadorian gang members as well as white scholars, an El Salvadorian Scholars as well as white gang members. Some people don?t have the same advantages as others. If you disagree, look at the kids living in the mystic projects and then the kids whose parents are lawyers and say they both have the same chances of getting into Harvard. You are probably one of the privileged kids, so I cant expect you to understand those of us who weren?t so lucky. The kids who disagree with Cutter probably have your privileges too, which is why they don?t know and don?t care and don?t understand people like Cutter, or Scotty, or Jessica, or Villen, or Me. And you never will.
I happen to know that for a fact Jay Cutter is backed by more than a few hoodlums.Yes Somerville kids have gone on to college even Harvard, the same case is in LA or DC but there also is a good amount that die before there 21 and even a small amount is to much.Becouse peolple escape is no reason to forget the ones that fall threw the cracks, i assume you have no remorse or sympathy because you simply cant relate. Yes some one did sell us short and i think that was the point He was trying to make. They dont expect more from there kids, there kids get more so they have more. You dont live it so you dont know, dont get it and never will.
Now adays every body wants to blam the youth. Lets face it WE gave them a world thats cursed and it hurts.Can you blame them for being upset. Tom, John, or who every else wants to take shots at the youth for the situation they are in needs to back off. Act like adults, you are going back and forth with kids that are pissed. You blame them for being pissed and the situation there in. Sometimes you can’t help the life you are giving and you are put in a place where the odds of sucsess against you. Many Somerville youth over come this sisuation they are put in, but in some case’s the odds are stacked to high against them. That dose not mean you should blame them for the card they where delt. The Yuppie situation and the death of are youth are two very different things, but are going on in the same community. You guys should be talking the time to understand theses Somerville youth instead of trying to out smart them and put the down for the situation they feel they are in.Instead of fighting with thses kids, try and understand the way they feel and where they are coming from.It’s not about the “yuppie’s” that they are mad it’s that they have lost so many friends and nothing is done, and once “Kill a yuppie” pops up witch not many concider them slefs “yuppie’s”it’s the citys big problem when young kids are still dying and there are people who don’t cair because they don’t know them or as one of you said it’s their own fault.
Well said westville. Thank you.