Quite a few people are in high dudgeon over California Democratic congressional candidate Francine Busby and her apparent solicitation of votes from illegal aliens, including my own colleague Kim Priestap. As a hard-nose on the illegal alien issue, the thought of this happening infuriated me, so I started looking into it myself. And my conclusion? As Dorothy Parker said, “there’s no ‘there’ there.”
From the full context of the discussion, it’s clear to me that Ms. Busby was asked if one needed to prove one was a legal voter in order to “help” her campaign — with the clear implication of volunteering to work for her,not simply vote. She replied that they do not check IDs for volunteers, and anyone was welcome to assist. And under current law, they I do not believe they are required to verify the immigration status of an unpaid volunteer.
Whether or not that should be the case, that’s the way it is under current law. And whether or not Busby should be held to a higher standard than the legal minimum is another question.
Yes, it is possible to interpret the discussion as a solicitation for voter fraud. But it’s a hell of a stretch.
I’m not a lawyer, but if I were defending Ms. Busby, it’d be a slam-dunk. “No, your honor, my client was not soliciting voter fraud. She took the question to mean ‘can I volunteer for your campaign without proving my immigration status, as I do not have the papers on me at this moment?’, and replied that her campaign, in compliance with the law, does not require such proof from unpaid volunteers. The issue of voting was never in question; the discussion was entirely about campaign volunteer work.” It might not be true, but it’s enough to generate reasonable doubt.
At the very most, we have a Democratic candidate who is accepting the support of a potential illegal alien. This is absolutely nothing new, and not against any laws.
I hope she is defeated in Congress, as it is attitudes like hers that have put us in such a bind regarding illegal aliens. But I’m afraid this is hardly a smoking gun.
Argument over Busby’s exact meaning intended by her by her words utterly misses the point. To 99.9% of those familiar with this matter, it confirms: (1) Busby is the candidate for those who favor lax illegal immigration enforcement and lax border, (2) the GOP is the candidate for just the opposite.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Conservatives Bigots = Cowards. What are you so scared of? You people must be afraid of your own shadow. What a way to have to live. Try growing up it will work wonders for you
And that is why this is precisely NOT much ado about nothing.
it confirms: (1) Busby is the candidate for those who favor lax illegal immigration enforcement and lax border, (2) the GOP is the candidate for just the opposite.
And therefore she is toast. What an injustice, using her own words aginst her. If she had only kept her mouth shut and not told us what she really believes (like most Democrats) she might still have a chance.
Use the audio link posted above (from Drudge) or go to Drudge for the link. It is quite clear, and in simple English.
You don’t need to be a registered voter to work on the campaign.
All this extremist rightie crap about voter fraud is PURE B.S. and you pack of intellectually dishonest extremists know it.
This is exactly the kind of election sliming that has become the hallmark of the Republican Party since at least the days of Lee Asswater and his scum tactics embraced by the GOP & now manifested in the tactics taught by his protege, Rove.
All of this waling & gnashing of teeth from Republican sycophants about alleged Busby fraudulent vote endorsement is simply the ongoing tactics of a “Tricky Dick,” Lee Ass water & Karl Rove. What a shining history of ethical campaigning!!!!
Further manifestation of deceitful campaign tactics by the GOP is evidenced w/ their attempt to appeal to the bigotry & hatred of their predominant voting bloc by engendering fears about gay marriage & eliciting jingoistic patriotism in regards to flag burning.
The typical goal of a Republican campaign is to focus the voter’s attention on fear & to ferret out the latent bigotry in the ranks of their voting bloc.
I think what disturbs the Republicans the most is that it’s a person of hispanic heritage offering to do the work. Since it’s clearly LEGAL for anyone regardless of immigration status to help out in an election, what really disturbs them is that here is just another example of Latinos fleeing from them — just like the Blacks, and for much the same reasons.
By mak44’s comment, above, it confirms that gmax (and I) hit a “bullseye”!
their attempt to appeal to the bigotry & hatred of their predominant voting bloc by engendering fears about gay marriage & eliciting jingoistic patriotism in regards to flag burning.
Compare and contrast these alleged atrocities with the upstanding and fine traditions in the Democrat Party such as scaring the elderly that the Republicnas are going to take your Soc Security check away or telling Blacks that Republicans in office will return them to the plantation, and you can see why our friend mak44 is in such high dungeon today.
Ahem, it is a fact that every immigrant that wishes to become a citizen must prove proficiency and literacy in English–the citizenship exam is administered in English.
You should have read your own link since it only gave the rare exemptions.
This is hilarious. This sort of thing is worth pouncing on? What party are Jay’s readers supposed to support again?
Republicans should totally make voter fraud an issue. Since it’s their Congress, it’ll be the only way your country is going to mandate voting machines with paper trails. When a country that argues for unilateral democracy-smearing (wherever there’s oil, anyway) uses electronic voting machines purchased from a GOP contributor that a moderately skilled computer hacker can break into and tamper with in under two minutes, you give people like Castro and Chavez ammunition to ridicule your attempt at making pro-democratic noises.
Please, for the sake of your country, make voter fraud an issue. I’d like to see Ann Coulter go to jail for a month.
Sorry terd & gmax
You didn’t come close to a “bullseye” but you sure as hell can sling the Bulls_it. In fact so well so,that it can be smelled within 100 feet of a computer.
Wanting to preserve an institution that is at least 2000 years plus in tradition, BAD. Acting to try to change the law to make it a crime to desecrate the Stars and Stripes JINGOIST BAD!
Asking for a law change to force people to have an ID that everyone must have to function in modern society, RACIST BAD!
Quoting a candididate in her own words. DISPICABLE!!!
I get the agenda now. So will the voters in Cali 50. Too bad for you.
Photo ID for voting is a bad idea because it is just as open to subterfuge and it would disenfranchise lots of poor and elderly voters.
Thank you for the deep thought out reasons why photo ID’s at the polling place are a bad idea.
Another way to explain it in this kind of detail would to simply say “DUH” that’s what I heard so I’ll repeat it.
Seriously, it explains your explanation the same way.
Sudafed yes, Jumpinjoe, but not to vote. Non Euclidean geometric reasoning, where parallel lines can and do meet. Its a world created and inhabited by those reality based community denizens, also known as Olestra Democrats ( Totally fact free ).
gmin
Get out your black crepe & black widow’s veil: the usual GOP slime-machine is working way overtime to pull Bilbray out of the jaws of defeat with this sack of last-minute sliming and the polls seem to show that it may not be working in this lopsidedly GOP district.
What you all fear & dread is that CA-50 may become the Omen; your bankrupt rotten Republican eggs are not likely to hatch… now or in November.
Even w/ assisstance from the slime-purveying Drudge, this crap isn’t flying except w/ you loonies who are quite accustomed to feeding on it on a regular basis.
Probably explainbs why most of you have brown eyes.
Busby let the democrat skirt show on this. She’s done. And lying and making up excuses about what she said just makes it even worse.
On the topic of ID for voting..
I belive the arguments against fall into disenfranchisement and liberterian categories.
On the liberterian side, I have one employee who does not have a state ID. He does have a passport as he absolutely needed it to travel to Japan. He’s not a liberterian by declaration but I’d struggle to describe him any other way. He is very against the limitation of personal freedom by the Government (or anyone) though he’s more than intelligent enough to understand that there are damn good reasons to have a government. [the kid is not just ‘smart enough’, he’s brilliant and I’m lucky to have him but that’s enought story]
He is an urban dweller so he used public transport and he’s still pretty young so he doesn’t have a drivers license. He doesn’t have a state ID and he is, as far as I understand it, pretty against the stated ‘tagging him’ by forcing him to carry and show his ‘papers’, as it were.
In his mind, he’s an educated and intelligent American and he should be able to vote without having paperwork. It doesn’t hurt that he’s white and probably 3rd, 4th, or 5th generation American.
The other argument I believe is an absolutist argument based on historical precident like poll taxes that were used to disenfranchise populations (like exceedingly poor blacks).
Personally, I reflexively pull out my Driver’s license when I vote because I just expect to be questioned about whether or not I live in that district.
In this day and age, I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to have a State ID at the least.
I’d hazard that most people on the left also don’t see anything wrong with proving who you are and where you live when you vote. I strongly suspect that this is, once again, one side picking out the radical fringe from the other side to score some points.
That’s just my opinion from the people I know from all political spectrums.
ffakr.
polls seem to show that it may not be working in this lopsidedly GOP district.
Polls ah yes. Now what about those exit polls from 2004?
But come back Wednesday morning and tell me about who is hanging black crepe again.
To all decent folks here who question the statement “you don’t need papers to vote” a question. Does this mean that when somebody says “I’m going to vote with my pocketbook”, that they explicitly mean they are going to buy votes? Never mind that Busby’s next sentence more or less clarified what she meant.
This whole thing is ridiculous. If this type of slimy attack is the best my GOP can come up with to attack Busby, then we DESERVE to lose. Let me repeat DESERVE TO LOSE.
Chris you are not a Republican…just admit it.
To show you how dishonest at least some commenters here are I went to see the polls being cited as support for their proposition that its not working. Only thing is I find only one poll of any recent vintage and here it is :
SurveyUSA poll of Cali 50
I think what disturbs the Republicans the most is that it’s a person of hispanic heritage offering to do the work.
Typical lefty knee jerking with the racism. I know you kid’s think you are smart when you regurgitate the mantras but it is really simplistic thinking. Getting a condescending pat on the head from another lefty doesn’t actually make you smart either.
My wife is a legal immigrant. She went through all the processes to become a citizen before we met. She spent 12 years in the Army, is a Gulf War veteran and two tours in Korea. She spent a lot of time and effort jumping through the hoops while others just jump the border. There is the fundamental fairness issue here.
She agrees with me (rather I agree with her) on immigration. Kindly explain how she is a racist.
She is Hispanic and Republican and most of her family is Republican.
Is there a lefty term for the Hispanic “Uncle Tom”? After all, that’s the racism coming from the leftist when minorities don’t march in lock step with them.
What a bunch of self proclaimed elitists you lefties are.
Would one of you righties explain it?
Some days ago, on another thread about illegal immigration, I made some reference to having a National I,D. card to assure that American employers would know for certain whether the perspective employee was a citizen entitled to legally work in this country.
On that occasion I was assailed by all sorts of you bloggers as some sort of a “commie” or “socialist” or “Democratic moonbat” for even suggesting something as non-libertarian as a national I.D. card that would end up eventually being used to round up law-abiding citizens for the new gulag.
Now, when it comes to legal citizen-voting, the hue & cry is for proper legal verification.
I don’t get it.
So what’s thge difference?
Lets try it this way:
In a special election in California’s 50th Congressional District today, 6/2/06, 96 hours till polls open, Republican Brian Bilbray and Democrat Francine Busby are locked in a fierce firefight that could go either way, according to a SurveyUSA poll of 448 Likely Voters, conducted exclusively for KGTV-TV San Diego. 4 days until the 6/6/06 Special Election, Republican Bilbray gets 47%, Democrat Busby gets 45%. Bilbray’s 2-point advantage is within the poll’s margin of sampling error. Voter turnout will decide whether this critical House seat remains in Republican hands, or becomes a Democrat pick-up. Since an identical SurveyUSA KGTV-TV poll released 5/10/06, Bilbray is up 2 points, from 45% to 47%; Busby is unchanged
HMMM Bilbray up 2% and Busby unchanged. By the way she got 44% in the primary and its up to 45% now. Think she will get any more?
She is at her ceiling at 45%. She is toast. In the end 52/44 Bilbray.
What site and what thread? And what comments. Sorry but after your comment about Polls and my own quick search I need to see what the hell you are talking about. Many many libertarians are quite liberal. If what you are talking about is comments by a libertarian, I would not make the logic jump that means they are Republicans. In fact the only libertarian I can think of that calls himself a Republican is Ron Paul in the House. And he is a looney tune that votes with the Moonbat chorus on many many occasions. In fact if you see a bill and it says one or two Republican defections on the vote win some money from your friends by betting on it being Paul. High likelyhood.
With Orwellian doublespeak comments like this…:
“But even that is wrong isn’t it? Even if I could possibly accept that Busby wasn’t soliciting an illegal alien to commit voter fraud then I’d have to accept that Busby was violating the labor laws of this country to employ an illegal alien as a volunteer in her campaign.”
…it’s no wonder people who think rationally don’t take the GOP seriously.
Perhaps you need to look up the meaning of the words ‘volunteer’ and ’employ’. Volunteering is an unpaid service of one’s own free will; hence, it is NOT employment, so a person’s work/immigration status in this regard is moot.
I work at a major university’s English as a Second Language program. Our students arrive here on F-1 visas; they are not immigrants and are expressly forbidden from paid employment, yet there is nothing in BCIS regulations that prevents them from doing volunteer work if they wish to do so. In fact, we encourage it in order for them to improve their language skills, and it’s all perfectly legal.
Jumpinjoe
You posted: “Is there a lefty term for the Hispanic “Uncle Tom”? After all, that’s the racism coming from the leftist when minorities don’t march in lock step with them.
What a bunch of self proclaimed elitists you lefties are. “
Actually, there is….Tio Juan
BTW I understand your “user” now that you exp;ained some background above. Tell your wife to cut back on the Mexican “jumping beans” at dinner.
Isnt the colloquial actually ” I am going to vote my pocketbook” No “with”. Always meant to me, I am going to let the issues that influence my paycheck control my vote.
Sorry for breaking your karma and ruining your analogy here, but I think your quote was wrong.
This was either a call for illegals to vote in our elections (at worse), or a plea for people here illegally to help candidates get elected (at best).
Either way, Jay, she’s dead wrong! I wouldn’t want an illegal anyone working on my campaign. No one running for the House Of Representatives should ever want such a thing. You tell people here illegally that you appreciate the sentiment, but no thanks.
That, instead of the mindless pandering, would have earned her some votes…
Viva Busby VICTORY!!! 😉
Perhaps you need to look up the meaning of the words ‘volunteer’ and ’employ’. Volunteering is an unpaid service of one’s own free will; hence, it is NOT employment, so a person’s work/immigration status in this regard is moot.
Posted by: Radian
Sorry you missed the memo but Busby has denied solicitation of an illegal working for her campaign.
She should have said, “of course as somebody illegally in this country you can work to get me elected”.
Why couldn’t she just be honest like you an advocate people here illegally work to get Democrats elected to office?
Inquiring minds want to know.
I helped out in political campaigns since I was 13 years old-I wasn’t legal to vote then either!
BTW I understand your “user” now that you exp;ained some background above. Tell your wife to cut back on the Mexican “jumping beans” at dinner.
Actually Jumpinjoe is derived from my 20 years on Airborne status in the U.S. Army, to include my 4000+ skydives on behalf of the Army with the Golden Knights.
My wife is also Airborne qualified and spent 5 years at the Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg on jump status.
But at least you are trying. BTW, she’s not into jumping beans, but she is my jumping beaner.
Airborne and Special Ops. Is she also a Ranger?
Nevertheless I bet you speak damn respectfully to the woman. I would unless I wanted my @** kicked!
Doug R,
It’s not about being legal to vote, but legal to be in this country in the first place. Young people help on campaigns all of the time, do illegal aliens as well?
Apparently, they are welcome to help with the Busby campaign.
Don’t be stupid…
Airborne and Special Ops. Is she also a Ranger?
She wore the maroon beret like the other none SF qualified personnel. She was MOS 71LP, office clerk parachutist.
We also consider our daughter Airborne since she technically made a jump within the first weeks of conception.
Nevertheless I bet you speak damn respectfully to the woman. I would unless I wanted my @** kicked.
Actually she is petite, yet hard as woodpecker lips. Just the way I like it.
My point is not with what Busby said but with a previous poster’s choice of words, i.e “employ an illegal alien as a volunteer”. Call me old-school, but to me the phrase ’employ…as a volunteer’ (ellipsis mine) is an oxymoron. It’s meaningless, and there is no violation of US labor law in this respect.
But don’t take my word for it. If you feel Busby’s actions are wrong, drop a dime on her to the State and Federal Labor Depts. and see what their policy is on someone who isn’t authorized to work but wishes to volunteer somewhere. My guess is that they won’t have a problem with it.
Moreover, I went back and re-read my post, but I couldn’t find where I “advocate people here illegally work to get Democrats elected to office”. My post didn’t even imply that, but rather took issue with mindless commentary.
But since many here seem so omniscient, maybe Republicans should adopt the slogan ‘GOP – the Party of ESP’; it might just be what the they need to revitalize themselves.
Just as an FYI, I’m not at all a supporter of the Democratic Party; but I do take exception to illogical and reactionary thinking.
Hmmmm.
What utter imbeclic tripe.
That’s absolutely right. There are NO legal immigrants in the USA that don’t speak English at all. Why? Because command of English is a frigging requirement for NATURALIZATION. IN other words if you are an immigrant then you MUST know English in order to pass the naturalization process. This is because the oath you’re require to recite is in English and it’s not legally binding unless you are able to comprehend it.
It’s nice that you completely ignored the fact that she was exhorting people to VOTE. Not just help her campaign, but VOTE. And you do need to have “papers” to vote. The most basic requirement of any such election is that you must be a registered voter in order to vote. So even if she were talking about voter registration papers and not legal immigration papers then she’s still completely wrong.
And note that in order to be a registered voter the person must be a citizen, not just a green card holder.
Why this is so hard for you lefties to comprehend is frankly absurd.
No not at all. Because there is only one recording of the speech and it wasn’t recorded by Busby or her campaign staff. It was recorded by a member of the audience.
So it’s extremely clear that Busby felt safe in making such outrageous statements because she didn’t think she could be called to account on it.
And if you’re not registered to vote, then you cannot vote! If that was what she meant then she would have worded it completely differently.
She specifically stated that you did not need papers to vote. This is utterly false. You must be a registered voter to vote and you must be a citizen and a resident to be a registered voter.
So you MUST have papers in order to vote. Unless you, she in this case, is exhorting people to commit voter fraud!
A *FREE* photo id for all citizens is not a bad idea at all. As for disenfranchising poor and elderly, well that’s why it’s *free*.
And yet you Democrats oppose even that? It’s pretty obvious that you rely heavily on voter fraud.
C.f. Washington state 2004 Govenor’s race & St. Louis.
Actually you damn well do need to be able to speak English! Because, again, English is required to be naturalised.
Utter bullshit.
You do need papers to vote. And that second sentence is clearly not a run-on sentence. It is not a clarification. It is clearly a separate sentence with both a completely different orientation and a completely different goal.
And you Democrats are the party of frauds and cheats.
So far you’ve maintained what little political power you have by cheating at the polls. But you can bet the next iteration of the illegal alien issue is going to be clamping down hard on voter fraud. Once that happens, your political power will freefall.
Utter bullshit. No it is not clearly LEGAL for an illegal alien to work on an election campaign. It’s clearly NOT legal for that person to be in America. It’s also clearly NOT legal for that person to be working at all.
That is perhaps the stupidest comment I’ve seen yet.
The phrase “voting with my pocketbook” has nothing to do with “you don’t need papers to vote”.
When can we start feeding all the Christians and right-wing faggots to the lions? I’d buy that for a dollar!
I think Jay Tea may be on to something. A little-reported part of the story quotes Busby as yelling from the ladies room, “Hey a little help here. We’re out of papers for wiping!”
Go ed! Go ed! Go ed! Go ed! Go ed!
Moreover, I went back and re-read my post, but I couldn’t find where I “advocate people here illegally work to get Democrats elected to office”. My post didn’t even imply that, but rather took issue with mindless commentary
Posted by: Radian
Well Radian, since we were discussing an illegal being solicited to work for a Democrat your reaction was this.
it’s no wonder people who think rationally don’t take the GOP seriously
Perhaps you need to look up the meaning of the words ‘volunteer’ and ’employ’. Volunteering is an unpaid service of one’s own free will; hence, it is NOT employment, so a person’s work/immigration status in this regard is moot
There is no way to misconstrue your point, which btw was to argue immigration status does not hinder whom that person can volunteer with even if that status is illegal and on behalf of getting a Democrat elected to Congress.
Jumpinjoe, you are absolutely correct – that is my point, but to interpret that as advocation on my part (as others have) is a total leap in logic.
As far as the issue of having an illegal volunteering on a campaign, I personally don’t think it’s good policy, if for no other reason than leading to another case of foot-in-mouth disease, with a side effect of backpedalitis, on the part of a candidate, something that seems to be endemic to pols of all political persuasions. However, it doesn’t change the fact that, while political volunteering by an illegal may be questionable, it is not illegal. If it is, I challenge anyone out there to cite relevant law to that effect and I’ll be the first to retract what I’ve written.
A statement of fact (not opinion) is just that, and the mere mention of it should not be construed as support for that fact; e.g abortion is legal (there, I’ve said it). But just because I said it doesn’t mean I think abortion is right or wrong, it’s only a mention of the obvious.
However, It’s nice to know that there are so many people out there who know – even more than I do – exactly what I’m thinking. Must be nice to have such powers.
Hmmmm.
Frankly I was curious about this myself as there are many stringent restrictions on the conduct of political campaigns that do not apply to most other situations. For volunteers of political campaigns there are monetary restrictions on amounts that can be spent on lodgings, fuel, food & other travel expenses. If a volunteer spends more than the allocated amount then I believe fines begin to accrue.
I tried Googling for any relevant documentation that would deal with the issue of illegal aliens volunteering for political campaigns but it’s nearly impossible. The incredible morass of webpages concerned with various component issues just makes trying to find a specific unknown webage almost impossible. The just number of websites that deal with “illegal alien” alone is daunting to search through.
Hmmm.
And just in case anybody is thinking of trying to use the “you hate immigrants” canard on me you are advised that I was born in Seoul, South Korea, and I AM an immigrant and a naturalized citizen.
And hopefully this will nip that sort of nonsense in the bud.
However, it doesn’t change the fact that, while political volunteering by an illegal may be questionable, it is not illegal. If it is, I challenge anyone out there to cite relevant law to that effect and I’ll be the first to retract what I’ve written.
Here you go, this should cover it.
So the question is, how can someone committing a federal crime work for a political campaign even if it is volunteer work.
When can we start feeding all the Christians and right-wing faggots to the lions?
Well then all you’d be left with is Democrats and leftwing faggots ( sorry for repeating myself).
However, It’s nice to know that there are so many people out there who know – even more than I do – exactly what I’m thinking. Must be nice to have such powers.
It is not a supernatural power; it’s just simple intuition. You see if I say up, then the other person is more than likely going to say down.
Now that you know my secret, proceed……..
“So the question is, how can someone committing a federal crime work for a political campaign even if it is volunteer work.”
Exactly. How can someone? Unfortunately, the law you cited doesn’t address that specific situation, and as any lawyer will tell you, under American jurisprudence, laws are meant to be as narrowly interpreted as possible.
In this respect, ed is correct in atempting to cite Federal Election Law, which theoretically should deal with these kinds of situations.
Oh well, maybe living in Chicago has tainted my perceptions. There are numerous convicted felons (state and federal) working at all levels of politics and government here; a criminal record doesn’t seem to have hindered them at all.
Hmmmm.
Ouch, that’s going to leave a mark.
Personally I enjoy a good biting remark, regardless of the issue or the ideology of the target. And this one definitely made me smile.